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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.05.17 10:39:00 -
[61]
Actually, Digi, fighters are very different from drones: they don't recieve bonuses from some of the drone skills and they also haven't figured out that you can MWD back to the host ship when it wants you to return and orbit/dock. Wow... We've got something that's stupider than NPCs and even more stupid than drones!
But yes, I keep calling them "drones", and there's a reason for it. They are drones with better models.
New sig coming soonÖ
Drone musing (MC-boards) |
Eximius Josari
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Posted - 2006.05.17 10:39:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: KilROCK
Edited by: KilROCK on 17/05/2006 10:34:42
Funny tho, an avatar with the best implants and gang implants and skills can have over 200k of armor..
(without regenerative membranes)
They should boost up Gang assist modules to have an higher attribute..
147868 with Slave set and max skills...452334 with 8x ERM II
~Eximius Josari, Hegemon of the E.A.R.T.H. Federation |
Reddari
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Posted - 2006.05.17 10:40:00 -
[63]
The backstory also says that the Gallente were the EW race... quite obviously the drones and EW got flipped by CCP to different races. Deal with it.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.17 10:40:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Ithildin
Actually, Digi, fighters are very different from drones: they don't recieve bonuses from some of the drone skills and they also haven't figured out that you can MWD back to the host ship when it wants you to return and orbit/dock. Wow... We've got something that's stupider than NPCs and even more stupid than drones!
But yes, I keep calling them "drones", and there's a reason for it. They are drones with better models.
they are computer controlled ships, much like drones and pirate npcs are 
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2006.05.17 10:41:00 -
[65]
Fighters don't get a bonus from Drone Durability? Isn't that like, the only drone where 5% more hp actually means something? :|
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.17 10:42:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Sarmaul on 17/05/2006 10:42:19
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Fighters don't get a bonus from Drone Durability? Isn't that like, the only drone where 5% more hp actually means something? :|
the only skill that effects fighters in the drones catagory is the fighters skill itself :/
edit: I'm sure CCP will be adding fighter navigation, fighter durability and a whole host of other skills to grind out in the near future though, so don't worry about it 
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.05.17 10:42:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: KilROCK
Edited by: KilROCK on 17/05/2006 10:34:42
Funny tho, an avatar with the best implants and gang implants and skills can have over 200k of armor..
(without regenerative membranes)
They should boost up Gang assist modules to have an higher attribute..
147868 with Slave set and max skills...452334 with 8x ERM II
Armored Warfare mindlink.
Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2006.05.17 10:43:00 -
[68]
Haha, weak..
..they're still drones though!
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2006.05.17 10:45:00 -
[69]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 17/05/2006 10:46:47
I'd like to see some variations in role of carriers. I fully agree with the original post, that all the carriers are much of a muchness, apart from Gallente which gets a stonking bonus to the _primary role_ of the carrier.
Archon/Chimera are vaguely useful to tank up, but ... well, carriers do seem to be best deployed from safespots or POSes.
Perhaps if rather than bonuses to the ships (or maybe 'in addition' don't know if that would be overpowering though) you got the same bonus to the fighters?
e.g. fighters from a chimera get more shield resists, that kind of thing.
Possibilities: Damage (Thanatos), Optimal/Falloff, Tracking, speed/agility, warp multiplier, shield resistances, shield recharge. Or carrier bonuses of reduced jump costs, different sized hangars, drone bays, cargo bays, jump ranges. Or even stuff like gang assist 'boosts' either modifiers to GA mods, or just a 'ship gang assist' (like the ones you get from titans, but obviously not quite as sick)
As it stands, if you're scratch training your carrier alt, then you're quite right, the Gallente one is the only choice. Only reasons the others are selling (really) is because lots of people have BS 5 and don't want to train it again.
--
We are recruiting |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.17 10:45:00 -
[70]
if you say so
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Chronus26
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Posted - 2006.05.17 10:47:00 -
[71]
I also think there is some debate as to wether Pirate Implants actually affect capital ships.
Can you imagine a Phoenix tanking with a full crystal set?
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.17 10:48:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Chronus26
Can you imagine a Phoenix tanking with a full crystal set?
no, because crystals don't effect capital shield boosters (dev confirmed). afaik the rest all work.
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Abyss Jack
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:07:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Abyss Jack on 17/05/2006 11:12:59
ye add more fighter skills and more capital skill rank 99, wth 
I feel pain, after months of training for carrier hearing this. So fixing the old skills befor adding new ones would make far more sense, and the little user more happier...
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bUBbLeS
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:08:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Chronus26
Can you imagine a Phoenix tanking with a full crystal set?
no, because crystals don't effect capital shield boosters (dev confirmed). afaik the rest all work.
which is SOOO unfair :P
would make a minnie caldarii carrier able to stand toe to toe with a gal one.
(me giggles and eats more cAKe)
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:12:00 -
[75]
Originally by: bUBbLeS
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Chronus26
Can you imagine a Phoenix tanking with a full crystal set?
no, because crystals don't effect capital shield boosters (dev confirmed). afaik the rest all work.
which is SOOO unfair :P
would make a minnie caldarii carrier able to stand toe to toe with a gal one.
(me giggles and eats more cAKe)
no, what's not fair is that I can't tank and gank my naglfar (when I can fly the damn thing) without running out of CPU. might have to start a new petition so I can do capital booster, boost amp, 3 hardeners and 6 damage mods
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:22:00 -
[76]
Templars are best fighters to use right now.
They got best orbit speed/orbit range/trackking ration of them all.
[23] Member: BoB Alt
Haha shin ra, haha. |
ArchenTheGreat
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:24:00 -
[77]
Maybe CCP should allow carriers to jump through gates. It will make them useful in smaller gangs.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:25:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Ithildin on 17/05/2006 11:26:42
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Templars are best fighters to use right now.
They got best orbit speed/orbit range/trackking ration of them all.
I prefere Firbolg and Einherji because the Templars orbit my carrier at 2500m so I can't scoop them easily/quickly
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
DC I think you are wrong.
Afaik when you ASSIGN fighters, the skills of the guy u assigned them to is taken into account, so unless the guy has thanatos trained himself he wont get the bonus (and wont get the fighter damage bonus either).
Also the only skill that affect fighters is the "fighter" skill (none of the drone skills work including drone interfacing).
The assigned drones still belong to the carrier pilot, so I wouldn't assume that they loose the owner's skill bonuses so easily. (Evidence can be found on killmails)
New sig coming soonÖ
Drone musing (MC-boards) |
Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:25:00 -
[79]
DC I think you are wrong.
Afaik when you ASSIGN fighters, the skills of the guy u assigned them to is taken into account, so unless the guy has thanatos trained himself he wont get the bonus (and wont get the fighter damage bonus either).
Also the only skill that affect fighters is the "fighter" skill (none of the drone skills work including drone interfacing).
- Gob
(my nubie attempt at a forum sig, bare with me plz :p) |
Noriath
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:34:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Sarmaul
the only skill that effects fighters in the drones catagory is the fighters skill itself :/
edit: I'm sure CCP will be adding fighter navigation, fighter durability and a whole host of other skills to grind out in the near future though, so don't worry about it
This is horrible!! So basicly you're telling me that I have 7 million skillpoints in drones for nothing, because the only drones that ever were worth someones time are fighters, and fighters acctually get no bonuses from drone skills?
Great, just great... Man I love how CCP always finds another way to screw drone users in the you know where.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:35:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Noriath
Originally by: Sarmaul
the only skill that effects fighters in the drones catagory is the fighters skill itself :/
edit: I'm sure CCP will be adding fighter navigation, fighter durability and a whole host of other skills to grind out in the near future though, so don't worry about it
This is horrible!! So basicly you're telling me that I have 7 million skillpoints in drones for nothing, because the only drones that ever were worth someones time are fighters, and fighters acctually get no bonuses from drone skills?
Great, just great... Man I love how CCP always finds another way to screw drone users in the you know where.
that's because fighters aren't drones ;)
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:36:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Noriath
Originally by: Sarmaul
the only skill that effects fighters in the drones catagory is the fighters skill itself :/
edit: I'm sure CCP will be adding fighter navigation, fighter durability and a whole host of other skills to grind out in the near future though, so don't worry about it
This is horrible!! So basicly you're telling me that I have 7 million skillpoints in drones for nothing, because the only drones that ever were worth someones time are fighters, and fighters acctually get no bonuses from drone skills?
Great, just great... Man I love how CCP always finds another way to screw drone users in the you know where.
Maybe you should study what you train for
Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs |
Leandro Salazar
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:45:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Kilo Paskaa
I will destroy YOU! [insert here singing AK¦s and missiles]
Man you made my day! I laughed tears at two points  
___________________________________
Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? |
Noriath
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:52:00 -
[84]
well, I have the drone skills for my Dominix, which is fine, except drones all on their own without ECM and NOS to soften up the target still blow noodles. Carriers are the only thing that even comes half way close to what a drone ship always should have been...
But if I go carrier now, which would be the logical next step if you have heavily invested in drone type skills you basicly start at nothing again, no matter how good you were with drones before.
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Keta Min
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:54:00 -
[85]
balancing the other carriers against the gal dmg bonus is not easy, especially after drone control mods are released and the dmg difference increases even more. it is needed but the new bonuses would have to provide quite powerful tactical advantages, i'm not sure if bigger maintenance bay or longer jump range would do it, unless you really make them differ alot compared to gal carrier.
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Laboratus
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Posted - 2006.05.17 12:14:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Laboratus on 17/05/2006 12:15:49
As it happenes, I think the carriers are balanced at the moment. Yes the Gallante carrier has a good bonus, but as far as I have seen, as long as you have competents pilots in your gang, they will warp out when they strat tanking damage. And as such I have had great help from a carrier remote armor reping and shield transfering at safe spots.
As such, I don't see this as a problem. As for the gallantean carrier being better with their drones. Oh well. Gallanteans are supposed to be good with their drones. Thats the whole point. The Moros is significanly less usefull as the other dreads, as it can only fit 3 guns, where phoenix and naglfar get 4 XL weapons. Eaven if there is a slight imbalance in one ship type the other cap ships cancel it out.
And as such a longer jump range on one ship would get most of the ppl using them, as they are cheaper to use and increases the speed and logistics value of the given ship...
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Keta Min
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Posted - 2006.05.17 12:20:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Keta Min on 17/05/2006 12:20:42
Originally by: Laboratus
Edited by: Laboratus on 17/05/2006 12:15:49
As it happenes, I think the carriers are balanced at the moment. Yes the Gallante carrier has a good bonus, but as far as I have seen, as long as you have competents pilots in your gang, they will warp out when they strat tanking damage. And as such I have had great help from a carrier remote armor reping and shield transfering at safe spots.
As such, I don't see this as a problem. As for the gallantean carrier being better with their drones. Oh well. Gallanteans are supposed to be good with their drones. Thats the whole point. The Moros is significanly less usefull as the other dreads, as it can only fit 3 guns, where phoenix and naglfar get 4 XL weapons. Eaven if there is a slight imbalance in one ship type the other cap ships cancel it out.
And as such a longer jump range on one ship would get most of the ppl using them, as they are cheaper to use and increases the speed and logistics value of the given ship...
sorry what? carriers balanced? Moros less useful? phoenix 4 XL weapons?
every carrier can remote rep. minmatar bonus is absolutely useless.
unplugging keyboard before posting could help in this case.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.05.17 12:27:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Laboratus
Edited by: Laboratus on 17/05/2006 12:15:49
As it happenes, I think the carriers are balanced at the moment. Yes the Gallante carrier has a good bonus, but as far as I have seen, as long as you have competents pilots in your gang, they will warp out when they strat tanking damage. And as such I have had great help from a carrier remote armor reping and shield transfering at safe spots.
As such, I don't see this as a problem. As for the gallantean carrier being better with their drones. Oh well. Gallanteans are supposed to be good with their drones. Thats the whole point. The Moros is significanly less usefull as the other dreads, as it can only fit 3 guns, where phoenix and naglfar get 4 XL weapons. Eaven if there is a slight imbalance in one ship type the other cap ships cancel it out.
And as such a longer jump range on one ship would get most of the ppl using them, as they are cheaper to use and increases the speed and logistics value of the given ship...
So, on the one hand you say that Carriers should be used at safespots... (Where resistance boni arent exactly usefull eh?) But, on the other hand you say theyre balanced... (While the only one that gets a usefull bonus is the Gallente one)
Then you, and this part is hilarious really, bring up the fact that the Moros is supposedly useless because it can only fit 3 guns. Except, the only one that can fit 4 guns is the Naglfar, which gets 2 guns and 2 launchers. Both the Phoenix and the Revelation only get 3 guns. The Moros on the other hand gets 3 guns aswell as a set of drones that can one-volley most cruisers.
The Moros hardly significantly less usefull. Please do your homework before you comment next time.
Do not discuss moderation on the forums - Cathath ([email protected]) |
Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2006.05.17 12:31:00 -
[89]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
OP stuff
good stuff
but I think the current, hide at pos/safespot way of using carriers is wrong. They should have something that would put them in the field imo.
An idea coming from another game(just cause it's been done already doesn't mean it shouldn't be used, game is nexus:JI), a shield fueled by strontium clathrates that protects anyone in the radius around the carrier, same as a pos shield in effect. Something like that could be nice and not just make carrier = bigger is better.
-
phew! dodged the mods on this sig!
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Laboratus
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Posted - 2006.05.17 12:33:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Laboratus on 17/05/2006 12:35:45
Originally by: Keta Min
Edited by: Keta Min on 17/05/2006 12:20:42
sorry what? carriers balanced? Moros less useful? phoenix 4 XL weapons?
every carrier can remote rep. minmatar bonus is absolutely useless.
unplugging keyboard before posting could help in this case.
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
So, on the one hand you say that Carriers should be used at safespots... (Where resistance boni arent exactly usefull eh?) But, on the other hand you say theyre balanced... (While the only one that gets a usefull bonus is the Gallente one)
Then you, and this part is hilarious really, bring up the fact that the Moros is supposedly useless because it can only fit 3 guns. Except, the only one that can fit 4 guns is the Naglfar, which gets 2 guns and 2 launchers. Both the Phoenix and the Revelation only get 3 guns. The Moros on the other hand gets 3 guns aswell as a set of drones that can one-volley most cruisers.
The Moros hardly significantly less usefull. Please do your homework before you comment next time.
Moros just does less damage. And can't be bothered to hit smaller things than dreads or poses. (sure drones, yea. Seen a lot of those used in battles. They never cause lag. Nope. Never.)
Ok, phoenix can fit 3 launchers and 1 turret as seen here:
Itemdatabase phoenix
And as such does more damage. Period. And it's like that. And thats the way it is.
As I said above, the bonus does not apply if the carrier has given the drones to someone else. Do it don't matter. And anyways they are so slow that any cruiser support will eat them alive anyways. or smart bomb frenzy etc.
As far as I have seen, the carriers are a great curiosity and eaven a greater deterrent. Ppl haven't really gotten a hang of what they can and cannot do at the moment. And they make mean targets for the enemy. Leave one sitting at the gate and see the enemy gang aggro. Or just sitting outside pos shields. It's just pretty.
Remember. Do your homework and you will learn
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