Which would mean I could put out 1.6 BPC's a day instead of building 1 ship per day... and still make less profit (by far) than building and selling the ship myself.

Why not just remove T2 BPO's so this doesn't come up every single time they try to touch industry.
Give everyone who currently holds a T2 BPO a collectors item and 36*1 Month runs worth of BPC's at the same ME/PE(TE) levels.
If three years of production worth that can be run on multiple lines rather than just one, and a collectors item isn't good enough for someone.... those people will never be satisfied unless they get pure bonuses with no nerfs ever so don't even bother trying to please them.

I'll elaborate on what Aryth just said, as we've been bouncing this around for a few hours.

Currently anyone sensible produces their t2 module/ammo bpo in an Amarr station (.7 build time modifier) or a pos (.75 build time modifier iirc).

It is currently possible, but a stupid idea, to upgrade a minmatar station to tier 3 to get a .4 build time modifier (this may not actually apply to ammo). It's dumb because it's only for modules, and you get limited slots (and for a while you'd max out at like ten total slots) and essentially double your bpo's output. This already happens with t2 ships, which are built in tier 3 amarr stations and obtain that .4 built time modifier.

So what's going to happen? Well, the minmatar station is dumb...but a tier 3 gallente copying factory is not. You'll get a .4 time modifier on your t2 copy job, which is equivalent to the .4 built time modifier for any t2 bpo at all: you can essentially double its production by making two runs in the time it used to take you to build one run. And everyone is going to be making these tier3 gallente copyhouses for their supercaps.

So all those markets where BPOs didn't dominate? Well, what happens when you double the volume of production you can manage with a t2 bpo? I'm guessing "nothing good". And that's what's about to happen: every DCII bpo will be producing double what it produces today.

Except you could build 1.6 ships a day. Really, Grrr Goons might be a thing, but when it comes to exploiting a mechanic for all it's worth, don't try and tell the goons they don't know what they are doing.

Thanks for putting that out in the light Weasilor. Combined with the fact that the profit margins for any T2 BPO are higher, this is going to make for a significant change in the flow of profit to T2 BPO holders.

They are free to do that when they apply the same system to every BPO in the game.

Fair point. However that still won't make a significant dent in the demand for those ships. Invention still provides the vast majority of the stock on the market, and would continue to do so.

But only if they can get hold of these Gallente outposts, which will probably be quite rare I am guessing.

But only if they can get hold of these Gallente outposts, which will probably be quite rare I am guessing.

I would love for someone to go through and give the intersection of high sec systems that offer the complete package of ME, TE, copying, and invention services.

The high sec industrialist will have the choices of:

a. Setting up shop in the tiny amount of systems that meet that criteria, which will be hugely expensive.
b. Setting up shop in multiple systems simultaneously, each that provide a subset of those services, which means incurring huge risk moving very expensive BPO's around, until your BPO collection reaches a quality level you are good with.
c. Becoming a nomad, where you go to a system that provides a service, staying there for an extended period of time, and say, apply ME research to all your BPC's, then moving onto another system to do TE. This is of course, completely impractical, and you still have huge risks moving your BPO collection.
d. You set up a POS somewhere and keep your BPO's in your POS, and apply research to them from your POS. This is, of course, a beacon for war dec griefers, and demands you are online every day, forever, or at least someone from your corp with take rights is available every day.

Bye bye small high sec industrialist corps.

Leveraging a 60%+ increase to the profitability of a T2 BPO due to lowering the copy time is going to drive an immense amount of invention to unfeasibility. This cannot be allowed to be brought to Tranquility in its current state.

My recommendation is to "bake in" the T3 Gallente Outpost bonus to copying speed into the T2 BPO, such that if you copy at a T3 Gallente Outpost, you receive copies at the same rate that the currently proposed math suggests they arrive (the math that does not take T3 Gallente Outposts into consideration.)

I am not fully familiar with POS's, but I seem to recall that you could copy faster on a POS than on a station.

This speed up was non trivial as I recall.

For a T2 BPO owner, would it now make sense to run a POS to make copies
(albeit at the cost of daily log ins to make sure that you have not been dec'd)

Would this impact the market?

I'd like that.

Historically the nature of the argument between the two camps has been along these lines:

Person A: Remove T2 BPOs because they are ruining the game!
Person B: In what way are they ruining the game?
Person A: By ruining it!
Person B: Would you like to support that claim in some way? Do you have any figures, graphs, maybe a pie chart?
Person A: Just remove them already!
Person B: I see.

Once you have witnessed this display a thousand times, you get to thinking that the problem is less with T2 BPOs and more with players that don't think things through.

Fair point. However that still won't make a significant dent in the demand for those ships. Invention still provides the vast majority of the stock on the market, and would continue to do so.

Fair point. However that still won't make a significant dent in the demand for those ships. Invention still provides the vast majority of the stock on the market, and would continue to do so.

That is a terrible hatchet job of an idea.

I think some complete overhaul of base requirements to copy a T2 BPO is needed.

This takes the impacted markets from a handful of under utilized cases and turns it into a sizeable portion of the T2 market. I am sure CCP can run a query to see how many are impacted by a doubling of BPO output. Its a very safe bet its more than was impacted by 6.25% though. 60% is pretty laughable after all.

Our hope is they nerf outposts in some way or nerf copy time on T2 bpos, or rather not unnerf them.

T1 BPO's can be 'produced' fresh by a player. Without paying scam prices to another player.
T2 BPO's can not. If a T2 BPO is profitable it will not sell without being a scam price. If it is not profitable then it also will be a scam price on sale because it's not profitable.
T2 BPO's also displace inventors who are unable to compete due to the lowered production costs of the BPO.

Thus T2 BPO's are an inherently unfair mechanic that was grandfathered into the game because early CCP didn't realise the long term impact of leaving them around.
The fact that every single time industry gets touched special consideration keeps needing to be given to the special case of T2 BPO's and how to avoid screwing over inventors says that they should be removed for the health of the game.

If you use a T2 BPO for production, 3 years worth of production is a reasonably fair compensation. If price margins say it could be 4 or it could be 2. But the point is that it would then be a limited resource that would run out and would not require special treatment or balancing any more.
If you hold a T2 BPO for collectors value, the collectors items would still have their identical value as collectors items. If they dropped in value as a result of becoming non functional then obviously they had value for their production capability, in which case, refer to the above sentence for how that value was already compensated.

There are already too many items which are unviable to invent due to T2 BPOs imo.

How so? If CCP's idea is to make copying a T2 BPO slightly more effective than building on it, compensating for the T3 Gallente Station that every single T2 BPO will land in makes sense. Failing to do this causes the T2 BPO to be able to generate more than twice as many runs per time period than before.

Just ran the (max skill) numbers on a Pilgrim.

If you're buying all the components at jita sell prices, the only way to make a profit is with a Process decryptor. And then you make around 75k isk/hr.

(flipping everything except datacores and decryptors over to buy orders improves it to around 270k, but they're not uncommon items. sell orders are the better way to judge it)

This suggests that the quantity from T2 BPOs is not inconsequential. (back in March 2012, only 22% of pilgrims came from invention.

Looking at the market history, the numbers moving haven't significantly changed.

http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=11965&region_id=&solarsystem_id=&type=historytext

With a 60% increase in output, BPO owners can close this market to inventors, if they so choose.

(extra materials have a minimal effect on this one.)

Same here.

I was thinking it was too good to be true anyway. Outpost changes were bound to come along and scupper it all.

I"m sorry, where did you get the figure that only 22% of Pilgrims came from invention?

This takes the impacted markets from a handful of under utilized cases and turns it into a sizeable portion of the T2 market. I am sure CCP can run a query to see how many are impacted by a doubling of BPO output. Its a very safe bet its more than was impacted by 6.25% though. 60% is pretty laughable after all.

Our hope is they nerf outposts in some way or nerf copy time on T2 bpos, or rather not unnerf them.

I"m sorry, where did you get the figure that only 22% of Pilgrims came from invention?