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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7227
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
As anyone who was watching the fanfest stream knows, CCP Greyscale today announced that T2 BPOs will be going away in the future: that they've caused problems for the game for years and everyone has felt they'd be going away at some point. That point is apparently coming soon. The discussion indicated that they would not simply be deleted but that there would be a phasing out plan (presumably, the often-considered replacement with BPCs with a large number of copies).
Interestingly, CCP thought that people buying and selling T2 BPOs should have been taking this risk into account. As every bpo sells for something like 7-10 years profit at this point, players clearly did not have that sort of foresight or common sense, so we can expect the price to plummet dramatically.
What are people's thoughts on finally eradicating T2 BPOs to secure a future for invention as the only means of producing T2 bpos, and what do people think will happen in the interim between now and their eventual demise? What sorts of outrage do we expect from current T2 BPO holders who see large parts of their investment wiped out? Should they be compensated, or should we realize that buying a product that clearly was bad for the game and paying a decade's worth of profit was the sort of "sure, let me lend a million dollars to this strawberry picker for a mortgage on a mansion worth more than he'll make in his lifetime" financial decision that deserves the loss that everyone but they saw coming? When it comes to the plan to bail out T2 bpo holders with BPCs, how much is enough/too much? What sort of prices do we think we'll see people bailing out of their T2 BPO investments at, or do you think they'll hang onto them hoping that if they post loudly enough, they'll change CCP's mind?
Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |

Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
487
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is very interesting stuff coming in the near future. It will nice to see some certainty brought to the T2 BPO problem. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5221
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:The Ultimate Solution to the T2 BPO Problem Announced by CCP
You know who else had an ultimate solution?
I'll be surprised if this happens any time soon. They'll get nerfed before they disappear. I have yet to hear any valid reason these are a problem (except for jealousy) since invention was introduced. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5700
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think that they shouldn't just disappear some of the most valuable items in the game without compensation. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3167
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Invest in buckets, ctrl-A, shift-del, collect tears. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3883
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Until its in the patch notes of a patch or expansion it's not real. "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |

Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1509
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Weaselior wrote:The Ultimate Solution to the T2 BPO Problem Announced by CCP You know who else had an ultimate solution? I'll be surprised if this happens any time soon. They'll get nerfed before they disappear.
We debated calling it Final Solution. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |

Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility
969
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Weaselior wrote:The Ultimate Solution to the T2 BPO Problem Announced by CCP You know who else had an ultimate solution? I'll be surprised if this happens any time soon. They'll get nerfed before they disappear. Top lel I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
697
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I think that they shouldn't just disappear some of the most valuable items in the game without compensation.
Yeah its not really a sandbox with CCP radically changing the baseline everytime a new player sneezes :D
|

Marsha Mallow
427
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
I sold mine, so don't care :P
I don't have a problem with them being compensated, but the owners can demand it themselves. Anyone in that market should have taken possible removal into account as a potential risk. Those who have had them since the lottery have had the benefit, its really only the later players who invested in them who will potentially lose ISK.
The danger in compensatons is that we might see a mass of inflated sales to try push up ISK reimbursed, so if they are going to do it CCP need to set a cutoff date for trade values sharpish.
TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
|

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5700
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I think that they shouldn't just disappear some of the most valuable items in the game without compensation.
Oh, and because I can see the attempted counter coming:
When someone says "Their compensation is making money off of it for so long", no, it's not. That's on CCP for not dealing with it sooner.
[edit: Also. "Item being deleted by the devs" is not a risk to be taken into account when playing this game. Being nerfed, yes. Being blow up or stolen? Hells yes. But not straight up deletion from the game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|

Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
517
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP absolutely should not be compensating for people's terrible financial decisions. The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal
The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them |

Thead Enco
47th Ronin
166
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:As anyone who was watching the fanfest stream knows, CCP Greyscale today announced that T2 BPOs will be going away in the future: that they've caused problems for the game for years and everyone has felt they'd be going away at some point. That point is apparently coming soon. The discussion indicated that they would not simply be deleted but that there would be a phasing out plan (presumably, the often-considered replacement with BPCs with a large number of copies).
Interestingly, CCP thought that people buying and selling T2 BPOs should have been taking this risk into account. As every bpo sells for something like 7-10 years profit at this point, players clearly did not have that sort of foresight or common sense, so we can expect the price to plummet dramatically.
What are people's thoughts on finally eradicating T2 BPOs to secure a future for invention as the only means of producing T2 bpos, and what do people think will happen in the interim between now and their eventual demise? What sorts of outrage do we expect from current T2 BPO holders who see large parts of their investment wiped out? Should they be compensated, or should we realize that buying a product that clearly was bad for the game and paying a decade's worth of profit was the sort of "sure, let me lend a million dollars to this strawberry picker for a mortgage on a mansion worth more than he'll make in his lifetime" financial decision that deserves the loss that everyone but they saw coming? When it comes to the plan to bail out T2 bpo holders with BPCs, how much is enough/too much? What sort of prices do we think we'll see people bailing out of their T2 BPO investments at, or do you think they'll hang onto them hoping that if they post loudly enough, they'll change CCP's mind?
T2 BPO's should of been removed after "T20"
-á"A Lannister always pays his debts."
-áTyrion Lannister |

Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1509
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
The greatest irony of that panel was the guy standing up to seek compensation for 20%. While the Greyscale response was to reply he was going to lose 100%.
Best troll ever. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
697
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
[edit: Also. "Item being deleted by the devs" is not a risk to be taken into account when playing this game. Being nerfed, yes. Being blow up or stolen? Hells yes. But not straight up deletion from the game.
Happened before.
Collectible stuff has just been recycled.
|

TedStriker
The Scope Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Weaselior wrote: Interestingly, CCP thought that people buying and selling T2 BPOs should have been taking this risk into account. As every bpo sells for something like 7-10 years profit at this point, players clearly did not have that sort of foresight or common sense, so we can expect the price to plummet dramatically.
It never was just CCP. I myself sold my T2 BPO i won in the lottery (ah..the days) because it was ALWAYS clear that T2 BPOs no longer had a place in EvE the moment they announced no new T2 BPOs would EVER enter EvE again.
What you guys did was pure SPECULATION. Someone will be the last one not to profit from it....deal with it. Yes, you should have known. If at all you have been lucky enough that CCP didn't care enough the last years to do anything serious regarding industry.
Really....just say it out lout for a moment: "5-10 years turnover".....yea, good luck with that mate ;) |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5226
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thead Enco wrote:Weaselior wrote:As anyone who was watching the fanfest stream knows, CCP Greyscale today announced that T2 BPOs will be going away in the future: that they've caused problems for the game for years and everyone has felt they'd be going away at some point. That point is apparently coming soon. The discussion indicated that they would not simply be deleted but that there would be a phasing out plan (presumably, the often-considered replacement with BPCs with a large number of copies).
Interestingly, CCP thought that people buying and selling T2 BPOs should have been taking this risk into account. As every bpo sells for something like 7-10 years profit at this point, players clearly did not have that sort of foresight or common sense, so we can expect the price to plummet dramatically.
What are people's thoughts on finally eradicating T2 BPOs to secure a future for invention as the only means of producing T2 bpos, and what do people think will happen in the interim between now and their eventual demise? What sorts of outrage do we expect from current T2 BPO holders who see large parts of their investment wiped out? Should they be compensated, or should we realize that buying a product that clearly was bad for the game and paying a decade's worth of profit was the sort of "sure, let me lend a million dollars to this strawberry picker for a mortgage on a mansion worth more than he'll make in his lifetime" financial decision that deserves the loss that everyone but they saw coming? When it comes to the plan to bail out T2 bpo holders with BPCs, how much is enough/too much? What sort of prices do we think we'll see people bailing out of their T2 BPO investments at, or do you think they'll hang onto them hoping that if they post loudly enough, they'll change CCP's mind?
T2 BPO's should of been removed after "T20"
There was no invention then, thanks for removing all Tech 2 from the game.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5700
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
[edit: Also. "Item being deleted by the devs" is not a risk to be taken into account when playing this game. Being nerfed, yes. Being blow up or stolen? Hells yes. But not straight up deletion from the game.
Happened before. Collectible stuff has just been recycled.
Collectible stuff. Not an actual asset.
Can they decide this about ships, for example? Suppose Jump Freighters get disappeared next week. Compensation? Skillpoints, isk, both, or nothing? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
697
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Can they decide this about ships, for example? Suppose Jump Freighters get disappeared next week. Compensation? Skillpoints, isk, both, or nothing?
Now that would make losec way more interesting. |

per
Terpene Conglomerate
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
"CCP Greyscale today announced that T2 BPOs will be going away in the future"
where did i see this already, lol
T2 BPO's are really a problem with no easy solution, i don't have any myself and i don't like them but i can imagine that having some i would be pretty pissed if they were be removed ... i'd increase their copying times hard or turr them into bpc's with some silly amount of runs but there's already quazilion of discussions about this..... |
|

Sturmwolke
562
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Get Greyscale to put it in writing, then I'll believe it :D (yeah I thought I was hearing things during the industry panel) Some Fanfest stuffs are just lip service.
|

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5700
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Can they decide this about ships, for example? Suppose Jump Freighters get disappeared next week. Compensation? Skillpoints, isk, both, or nothing?
Now that would make losec way more interesting.
Sure would. Trade routes would become a thing in places besides highsec again.
There's as much of an argument to be made that Jump Freighters are bad for the game, as there is for T2 BPOs. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|

Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
370
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
I guess its time for all BPO T2 owners to start copying like there is no tomorrow :P copier machine is this way >>>> GOGOGO! "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2895
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
What I want to know is why a member of the goon economic warfare team is creating this thread at all.
What does he have to gain by it? Trolling for tears? Actually curious about the opinions of others after years of gloatingly stating "your opinion means nothing".
This entire post is completely out of character, and I am curious why it was created. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |

Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1509
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:What I want to know is why a member of the goon economic warfare team is creating this thread at all.
What does he have to gain by it? Trolling for tears? Actually curious about the opinions of others after years of gloatingly stating "your opinion means nothing".
This entire post is completely out of character, and I am curious why it was created.
When you can figure that out you are no longer shameful. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |

Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
1151
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:What I want to know is why a member of the goon economic warfare team is creating this thread at all.
What does he have to gain by it? Trolling for tears? Actually curious about the opinions of others after years of gloatingly stating "your opinion means nothing".
This entire post is completely out of character, and I am curious why it was created. generating a discussion on an interesting subject not reason enough for you? it is for me. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á sig by Doc Fury -¬ 2014 Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
|

Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1842
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:What I want to know is why a member of the goon economic warfare team is creating this thread at all.
What does he have to gain by it? Trolling for tears? Actually curious about the opinions of others after years of gloatingly stating "your opinion means nothing".
This entire post is completely out of character, and I am curious why it was created.
Not all Goons are created equal.
CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE-á/ Dynamic New Eden |

Kirsi Kirjasto
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
132
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Solutions are good. Ultimate Solutions sind besser. |

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
425
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
[edit: Also. "Item being deleted by the devs" is not a risk to be taken into account when playing this game. Being nerfed, yes. Being blow up or stolen? Hells yes. But not straight up deletion from the game.
Happened before. Collectible stuff has just been recycled.
This. You have to assume that not only your fellow players will blow you up, but that CCP will simply delete everything you own without compensation at any time. |

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation
460
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
There is no T2 BPO problem. No, I don't have one.
|
|

Zenos Ebeth
DEAD JESTERS The Harlequin's
148
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Until its in the patch notes of a patch or expansion it's not real.
That's problably what all the t2 bpo owners are telling themselves right now . Bad posts are not welcome on these forums.-á -CCP Falcon
|

mkint
1177
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 17:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:What I want to know is why a member of the goon economic warfare team is creating this thread at all.
What does he have to gain by it? Trolling for tears? Actually curious about the opinions of others after years of gloatingly stating "your opinion means nothing".
This entire post is completely out of character, and I am curious why it was created. Not all Goons are created equal. Correct. Some are even more awful than others.
The tricky part of this is balancing where a refund might mean there's no affect on the big picture (i.e. a BPC refund of the same value would mean that 7-10 years for the open market to balance out) versus straight up deleting assets and value from EVE. I don't know if there is a good solution, but I do know they are a broken factor of the game. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |

Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
517
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 17:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
About 6 months worth of BPC time is more than fair The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal
The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them |

Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force The Kadeshi
307
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 18:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
Thank you CCP - for finally recognizing that this needed to be corrected.
|

BadAssMcKill
ElitistOps
770
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 18:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Weaselior wrote:The Ultimate Solution to the T2 BPO Problem Announced by CCP You know who else had an ultimate solution? I'll be surprised if this happens any time soon. They'll get nerfed before they disappear. I have yet to hear any valid reason these are a problem (except for jealousy) since invention was introduced.
That was the Final Solution
. |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5246
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 18:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Weaselior wrote:The Ultimate Solution to the T2 BPO Problem Announced by CCP You know who else had an ultimate solution? I'll be surprised if this happens any time soon. They'll get nerfed before they disappear. I have yet to hear any valid reason these are a problem (except for jealousy) since invention was introduced. That was the Final Solution
I loved that song.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

E Thatcher
Perkone Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 18:27:00 -
[37] - Quote
They could just adjust efficiences similar to the refine changes. Caused by smudged and worn originals. Old prints often cause more mistakes and waste. |

Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
1218
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 18:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
Wasn't it just a week ago that someone posted about T2 BPOs and the forum consensus was that he was just jelly and to get over it because T2 BPOs are here forever? |

Myxx
728
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 18:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
My respect for Greyscale couldn't get any lower, so it simply remains unchanged. |

Eyrun Mangeiri
Schattengarde
9
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 18:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
T2 BPO gone = no more T2 stuff? Or how will it work? I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn they will be gone - whispering their hidden song. |
|

Master Flakattack
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:05:00 -
[41] - Quote
Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:T2 BPO gone = no more T2 stuff? Or how will it work? Primary method for most T2 items to enter the game is Invention, which creates T2 BPCs.
T2 BPOs were handed out in a series of lotteries years ago, and CCP later decided Invention was a better way to bring T2 items into game and said they would never release T2 BPOs again.
This has been a long time coming, but I can't blame anyone who bought a T2 BPO later for being a bit miffed. It's kind of ridiculous to have something like that just plain deleted. |

000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
27
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
WTS! 1 T2 bpo for a gazzillion iskies! 
Just transfer the money.  |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5062
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:06:00 -
[43] - Quote
 . |

Revman Zim
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
251
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:T2 BPO gone = no more T2 stuff? Or how will it work?
Look up "INVENTION".
That is how it works, except for the few OLD RICH vets that were gifted BPO's by their Dev friends.
So, yeah. This should have been fixed A LONG TIME ago. It makes total sense for this to be addressed during a major industry rebalance. Yes their will be whining... but it is from the 1%ers... so **** them. |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5252
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:T2 BPO gone = no more T2 stuff? Or how will it work? Look up "INVENTION". That is how it works, except for the few OLD RICH vets that were gifted BPO's by their Dev friends.
You know how we know you don't know how the BPO lottery worked.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Revman Zim
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
251
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Revman Zim wrote:Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:T2 BPO gone = no more T2 stuff? Or how will it work? Look up "INVENTION". That is how it works, except for the few OLD RICH vets that were gifted BPO's by their Dev friends. You know how we know you don't know how the BPO lottery worked.
http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=2_7&page=4
Yeah. and this is just what was made public. I am sure there were more hidden favoritism. |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5252
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:20:00 -
[47] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Revman Zim wrote:Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:T2 BPO gone = no more T2 stuff? Or how will it work? Look up "INVENTION". That is how it works, except for the few OLD RICH vets that were gifted BPO's by their Dev friends. You know how we know you don't know how the BPO lottery worked. http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=2_7&page=4Yeah. and this is just what was made public. I am sure there were more hidden favoritism.
Do you have any proof of such favoritism? I'm not saying it could not happen, but if you are going to make that kind of accusation without passing out tinfoil first, I'd suggest a better argument based on less unfounded jealousy and/or hysteria. That matter was addressed a long time ago.
What about the 99.99% of the reset of the players who earned their BPOs fairly by grinding research agents and being lucky enough to draw one. I had one once, and nobody gifted it to me. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Eyrun Mangeiri
Schattengarde
9
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Master Flakattack wrote:Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:T2 BPO gone = no more T2 stuff? Or how will it work? Primary method for most T2 items to enter the game is Invention, which creates T2 BPCs. T2 BPOs were handed out in a series of lotteries years ago, and CCP later decided Invention was a better way to bring T2 items into game and said they would never release T2 BPOs again. This has been a long time coming, but I can't blame anyone who bought a T2 BPO later for being a bit miffed. It's kind of ridiculous to have something like that just plain deleted.
Ah okay, thanks! I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn they will be gone - whispering their hidden song. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9498
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
I seem to recall from somewhere that using T2 BPOs directly for manufacturing was still inferior to doing invention, and that really their only use was in copying jobs and selling the BPCs. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Revman Zim
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
252
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Revman Zim wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Revman Zim wrote:Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:T2 BPO gone = no more T2 stuff? Or how will it work? Look up "INVENTION". That is how it works, except for the few OLD RICH vets that were gifted BPO's by their Dev friends. You know how we know you don't know how the BPO lottery worked. http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=2_7&page=4Yeah. and this is just what was made public. I am sure there were more hidden favoritism. Do you have any proof of such favoritism? I'm not saying it could not happen, but if you are going to make that kind of accusation without passing out tinfoil first, I'd suggest a better argument based on less unfounded jealousy and/or hysteria. That matter was addressed a long time ago. What about the 99.99% of the rest of the players who participated and who earned their BPOs fairly by grinding research agents and were lucky enough to draw one in the lottery. I had one once, and nobody gifted it to me or did me any favors.
Touched a nerve?
CCP knows that T2 BPO's are bad for the game. The majority of the player base knows it is a broken part of the game. They need to go, and I am glad that CCP is going to do this. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
And, I don't have to have a better argument or proof. This is the EVE online forums, not a court of law. |
|

Tobin Shalim
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:
Touched a nerve?
CCP knows that T2 BPO's are bad for the game. The majority of the player base knows it is a broken part of the game. They need to go, and I am glad that CCP is going to do this. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
And, I don't have to have a better argument or proof. This is the EVE online forums, not a court of law.
*raises hand*
I, for one, don't think they're broken. I don't own a T2 BPO, nor do I have enough ISK to ever afford one, but they should straight up stay in the game, especially if the invention system will allow someone to come into the T2 production system on par with a T2 BPO owner. Wasn't that the whole point of invention in the first place?
Going in and erasing the assets of someone that either earned them or paid a big chunk of ISK on them is stupid on CCP's part especially since they tout the 'sandbox' nature of EVE. Arbitrarily erasing something like that (just that alone) and not providing some form of compensation really does ruin EVE and CCP's reputation. |

Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
176
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:54:00 -
[52] - Quote
I wonder how would other people feel if someone came and just deleted their asset, probably the one they have biggest investment in. For many industrialist deleting T2 BPOs would mean the same as for 0.0 alliance deleting titans. It would be also +- same loss according to ISK. Yes, I own one. No, I dont think they break the game or something like that. Yes, it was a mistake to introduce them in the first place. I wouldnt mind them deleted if CCP returns to me my investment, all of it. What would be the point of the game if someone could just delete your items, because someone doesnt like them anymore? |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5256
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:
Touched a nerve?
CCP knows that T2 BPO's are bad for the game. The majority of the player base knows it is a broken part of the game.
Not actually, I don't own one anymore, and I understand just how well invention works.This is just a tired argument, no one seems to be able to sate what exactly is wrong or bad about T2 BPOs after invention was introduced that does not revolve around jealousy.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

mkint
1177
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:58:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tobin Shalim wrote:Revman Zim wrote:
Touched a nerve?
CCP knows that T2 BPO's are bad for the game. The majority of the player base knows it is a broken part of the game. They need to go, and I am glad that CCP is going to do this. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
And, I don't have to have a better argument or proof. This is the EVE online forums, not a court of law.
*raises hand* I, for one, don't think they're broken. I don't own a T2 BPO, nor do I have enough ISK to ever afford one, but they should straight up stay in the game, especially if the invention system will allow someone to come into the T2 production system on par with a T2 BPO owner. Wasn't that the whole point of invention in the first place? Going in and erasing the assets of someone that either earned them or paid a big chunk of ISK on them is stupid on CCP's part especially since they tout the 'sandbox' nature of EVE. Arbitrarily erasing something like that (just that alone) and not providing some form of compensation really does ruin EVE and CCP's reputation. Invention can never match a BPO. Production from a T2 BPO less than half as much build materials as an invention build, not even counting the cost of doing the invention itself. That sucks. But where it's completely broken is where a single T2 BPO can completely shut down all invention for a particular item, if you've got the right BPO. That's just not acceptable, no matter how much you paid for that BPO. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |

Oxide Ammar
106
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:59:00 -
[55] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:I guess its time for all BPO T2 owners to start copying like there is no tomorrow :P copier machine is this way >>>> GOGOGO!
I loled so hard on this    |

Mr M
Sebiestor Tribe
354
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 20:03:00 -
[56] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=2_7&page=4
Yeah. and this is just what was made public. I am sure there were more hidden favoritism. Funny thing though, a T2 BPO paid for that article. And the 233 other issues of the EVE Tribune. And since I have a 650mm Artillery Cannon II BPO I'm pretty sure that it wasn't favouritism because that one is shite.
|

000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
28
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 20:12:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mr M wrote: I have a 650mm Artillery Cannon II BPO I'm pretty sure that it wasn't favouritism because that one is shite.
I just lolled  |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5256
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 20:41:00 -
[58] - Quote
mkint wrote: Invention can never match a BPO. Production from a T2 BPO less than half as much build materials as an invention build, not even counting the cost of doing the invention itself. That sucks. But where it's completely broken is where a single T2 BPO can completely shut down all invention for a particular item, if you've got the right BPO. That's just not acceptable, no matter how much you paid for that BPO.
Exactly how many T2 BPOs do you believe there are in game, and which ones exactly can shut down all invention?
If a single BPO can shut down all invention, what does it tell you about demand for that particular item?
Have you actually done invention? A T2 BPO owner is limited on how many items he can make in a given time period. Inventors can create virtually unlimited runs that can be built simultaneously.
If there is a lot of demand for Ishtars (for instance) an you build Ishtars is it more advantageous to be able to manufacture them using 1 manufacturing slot, or 10 at once?
"That Sucks" sounds a lot like jealousy to me. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
1009
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 20:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:What I want to know is why a member of the goon economic warfare team is creating this thread at all.
What does he have to gain by it? Trolling for tears? Actually curious about the opinions of others after years of gloatingly stating "your opinion means nothing".
This entire post is completely out of character, and I am curious why it was created.
I don't think Goonswarm are the largest owners of T2 BPO;s and by no way do they own the most on a per char basis. I know a couple of the corps that are quite small and own many of these items. Many others are privately owned. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |

Louise Beethoven
Hedion University Amarr Empire
111
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 20:59:00 -
[60] - Quote
There's no way in hell CCP will inject hundreds of billions of ISK into the economy to refund BPOs which are hugely inflated in value.
This is going to create an armageddon of player tears. I can't wait. |
|

Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
181
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:02:00 -
[61] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:As anyone who was watching the fanfest stream knows, CCP Greyscale today announced that T2 BPOs will be going away in the future: that they've caused problems for the game for years and everyone has felt they'd be going away at some point. That point is apparently coming soon. The discussion indicated that they would not simply be deleted but that there would be a phasing out plan (presumably, the often-considered replacement with BPCs with a large number of copies).
Interestingly, CCP thought that people buying and selling T2 BPOs should have been taking this risk into account. As every bpo sells for something like 7-10 years profit at this point, players clearly did not have that sort of foresight or common sense, so we can expect the price to plummet dramatically.
What are people's thoughts on finally eradicating T2 BPOs to secure a future for invention as the only means of producing T2 bpos, and what do people think will happen in the interim between now and their eventual demise? What sorts of outrage do we expect from current T2 BPO holders who see large parts of their investment wiped out? Should they be compensated, or should we realize that buying a product that clearly was bad for the game and paying a decade's worth of profit was the sort of "sure, let me lend a million dollars to this strawberry picker for a mortgage on a mansion worth more than he'll make in his lifetime" financial decision that deserves the loss that everyone but they saw coming? When it comes to the plan to bail out T2 bpo holders with BPCs, how much is enough/too much? What sort of prices do we think we'll see people bailing out of their T2 BPO investments at, or do you think they'll hang onto them hoping that if they post loudly enough, they'll change CCP's mind?
I know you are wanting to prise as many T2 BPOs from any industrialists cold dead hands, but sinking to this level... *slowly shakes head*
Heh wonder if anyone was actually dumb enough to fall for this and sold their T2 BPO. |

Revman Zim
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
253
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:06:00 -
[62] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:mkint wrote: Invention can never match a BPO. Production from a T2 BPO less than half as much build materials as an invention build, not even counting the cost of doing the invention itself. That sucks. But where it's completely broken is where a single T2 BPO can completely shut down all invention for a particular item, if you've got the right BPO. That's just not acceptable, no matter how much you paid for that BPO.
Exactly how many T2 BPOs do you believe there are in game, and which ones exactly can shut down all invention? If a single BPO can shut down all invention, what does it tell you about demand for that particular item? Have you actually done invention? A T2 BPO owner is limited on how many items he can make in a given time period. Inventors can create virtually unlimited runs that can be built simultaneously. If there is a lot of demand for Ishtars (for instance) an you build Ishtars is it more advantageous to be able to manufacture them using 1 manufacturing slot, or 10 at once? "That Sucks" sounds a lot like jealousy to me.
Making copies of a T2 BPO means the only limitation of items to be made is based on the number of manufacturing jobs you and your alts have skills for.
It is an unfair game mechanic. You are on the other side of course, because you are benefiting from the imbalance. Congrats. CCP is going to fix it. Great.
|

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5260
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:15:00 -
[63] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:
Making copies of a T2 BPO means the only limitation of items to be made is based on the number of manufacturing jobs you and your alts have skills for.
It is an unfair game mechanic. You are on the other side of course, because you are benefiting from the imbalance. Congrats. CCP is going to fix it. Great.
Making copies takes longer per run than manufacturing. How does that disadvantage create an advantage?
You keep saying it's unfair, but you have not demonstrated how. See jealousy.
How do I benefit when I no longer own a T2 BPO and have not for many years?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5703
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:
Making copies of a T2 BPO means the only limitation of items to be made is based on the number of manufacturing jobs you and your alts have skills for.
It is an unfair game mechanic. You are on the other side of course, because you are benefiting from the imbalance. Congrats. CCP is going to fix it. Great.
I don't have one. I just have a problem with CCP vaporizing player's assets to make up for their own past mistakes. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|

Revman Zim
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
253
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:29:00 -
[65] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Revman Zim wrote:
Making copies of a T2 BPO means the only limitation of items to be made is based on the number of manufacturing jobs you and your alts have skills for.
It is an unfair game mechanic. You are on the other side of course, because you are benefiting from the imbalance. Congrats. CCP is going to fix it. Great.
Making copies takes longer per run than manufacturing. How does that disadvantage create an advantage? You keep saying it's unfair, but you have not demonstrated how. See jealousy. How do I benefit when I no longer own a T2 BPO and have not for many years?
I am not jealous. I don't do T2 manufacturing. You trying to derail the conversation with personal attacks is juvenile.
I just want the mechanics of EVE to be equal for all. This is an instance where it is NOT.
Note, I said MECHANICS. Not skills, not experience... etc. So don't try to derail and turn this into "making EVE easier". |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5260
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:40:00 -
[66] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote: I don't do T2 manufacturing.
I just want the mechanics of EVE to be equal for all. This is an instance where it is NOT.
Note, I said MECHANICS. Not skills, not experience... etc. So don't try to derail and turn this into "making EVE easier".
O.K. You admittedly don't do T2 manufacturing so you have no idea what you are talking about and have never done the math because you'd know that invention is more lucrative.
Just because you *believe* something is bad due to simple ignorance or because someone else told you to believe so is not a good reason for CCP to take something away from another player because you can't have it too.
Gotcha. All is clear now. Original synopsis affirmed. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Prince Kobol
1678
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:40:00 -
[67] - Quote
Goons want your T2 BPO'S
Goons sperg post to create panic that they all going to get removed and your going to be holding nothing.
Stupid people rush to sell their T2 BPO's for next to nothing.
Goons buy lots of T2 BPO's very cheap and laugh at how stupid people are.
CCP announce they will do something to T2 BPO's in soon..
x number of years later T2 BPO's still exist in their current form. |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7242
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:44:00 -
[68] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Goons want your T2 BPO'S
Goons sperg post to create panic that they all going to get removed and your going to be holding nothing.
Stupid people rush to sell their T2 BPO's for next to nothing.
Goons buy lots of T2 BPO's very cheap and laugh at how stupid people are.
CCP announce they will do something to T2 BPO's in soon..
x number of years later T2 BPO's still exist in their current form. There's no need to take my word for it: anyone who watched the panel (or paid for HD and can rewatch) can confirm. I realize that denial is the first stage of grief but you're going to need to work harder on it. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9501
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:47:00 -
[69] - Quote
Buying T2 BPOs is pretty stupid anyway. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
176
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:47:00 -
[70] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Revman Zim wrote:
Making copies of a T2 BPO means the only limitation of items to be made is based on the number of manufacturing jobs you and your alts have skills for.
It is an unfair game mechanic. You are on the other side of course, because you are benefiting from the imbalance. Congrats. CCP is going to fix it. Great.
Making copies takes longer per run than manufacturing. How does that disadvantage create an advantage? You keep saying it's unfair, but you have not demonstrated how. See jealousy. How do I benefit when I no longer own a T2 BPO and have not for many years? I am not jealous. I don't do T2 manufacturing. You trying to derail the conversation with personal attacks is juvenile. I just want the mechanics of EVE to be equal for all. This is an instance where it is NOT. Note, I said MECHANICS. Not skills, not experience... etc. So don't try to derail and turn this into "making EVE easier".
...you realise noone is stopping anyone from buying T2 BPOs? They are not limited to current owners as for example high sec capital ships. There are dozens of them for sale on contracts and another dozens on forum auctions. So yes, if you want to, you can get one. Its equal for everybody. Evem a newbie can buy one, if he is willing to spend ISK.
|
|

Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
519
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:48:00 -
[71] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Revman Zim wrote:
Making copies of a T2 BPO means the only limitation of items to be made is based on the number of manufacturing jobs you and your alts have skills for.
It is an unfair game mechanic. You are on the other side of course, because you are benefiting from the imbalance. Congrats. CCP is going to fix it. Great.
I don't have one. I just have a problem with CCP vaporizing player's assets to make up for their own past mistakes.
Thankfully CCP has shown the strength to do this before! The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal
The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them |

Revman Zim
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
253
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:49:00 -
[72] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Revman Zim wrote: I don't do T2 manufacturing.
I just want the mechanics of EVE to be equal for all. This is an instance where it is NOT.
Note, I said MECHANICS. Not skills, not experience... etc. So don't try to derail and turn this into "making EVE easier".
O.K. You admittedly don't do T2 manufacturing so you have no idea what you are talking about and have never done the math because you'd know that invention is more lucrative. Just because you *believe* something is bad due to simple ignorance or because someone else told you to believe so is not a good reason for CCP to take something away from another player because you can't have it too. Gotcha. All is clear now. Original synopsis affirmed.
Just because I don't do T2 manufacturing NOW. Does not mean i have NEVER done it. I have. I understand the mechanics and have done it all. I used to make T2 100mn ABs and MWDs on another toon.
Once again, you are trying to negate my observations, not with anything valuable, but with more attacks.
|

mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
652
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:57:00 -
[73] - Quote
I think that if T2 BPOs are a problem, they should be nerfed, but not removed or replaced with BPCs.
A suitable nerf would be to lock them at ME/TE -1or something along those lines.
If there is a way to preserve the status of T2 BPOs while further reducing their impact on the market, that might be the best course of action for CCP to take. IMO T2 BPOs serve an important function of parking wealth for the super-rich. They sort of underpin the Eve economy in this way.
Either way I won't be shedding a tear, but I vote for keeping T2 BPOs unique and functional while greatly reducing their power (through production speed or efficiency reductions). I would certainly hope CCP is weighing this option along with the others. |

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
798
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 22:02:00 -
[74] - Quote
Compensation for T2 BPO holders?
We really want to start setting a precedent every time someone loses investment on a nerf?
Will I be able to get compensated when I lose my investment in something non-T2-BPO-related nerfed? Or is this just something for T2 BPO holders?
My thoughts are, just like everyone else has had to suck up investment losses on everything that has ever gotten nerfed, T2 BPO holders shall do the same. But that's just what I think. |

Antihrist Pripravnik
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
246
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 22:12:00 -
[75] - Quote
Finally.
An outdated game mechanic that was discontinued more than 5 years back is getting removed.
Good riddance. My signature got stolen (o.0) |

PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1745
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 22:12:00 -
[76] - Quote
Here's how CCP's probably going to do it, if they're smart.
First, in one of the point releases after kronos, they're going to nerf T2 BPOs across the board as part of an industry re-balance. Just like ships can be overpowered, so too can certain industry assets. They will be nerfed to the point where producing with T2 bpos will be completely non-competitive compared to invention.
About six months to a year after that change, they're going to replace all T2 BPO's with a 5000 run copy of a max invention blueprint, and at that time you are going to thank them.
And it's about time too.  |

handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
117
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 22:12:00 -
[77] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Goons want your T2 BPO'S
Goons sperg post to create panic that they all going to get removed and your going to be holding nothing.
Stupid people rush to sell their T2 BPO's for next to nothing.
Goons buy lots of T2 BPO's very cheap and laugh at how stupid people are.
CCP announce they will do something to T2 BPO's in soon..
x number of years later T2 BPO's still exist in their current form. There's no need to take my word for it: anyone who watched the panel (or paid for HD and can rewatch) can confirm. I realize that denial is the first stage of grief but you're going to need to work harder on it.
Except nowhere in the panel did they say T2 bpos would be removed or that CCP had any kind of a solution.
Typical goons trying to leverage the meta game.
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|

mkint
1178
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 22:49:00 -
[78] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:mkint wrote: Invention can never match a BPO. Production from a T2 BPO less than half as much build materials as an invention build, not even counting the cost of doing the invention itself. That sucks. But where it's completely broken is where a single T2 BPO can completely shut down all invention for a particular item, if you've got the right BPO. That's just not acceptable, no matter how much you paid for that BPO.
Exactly how many T2 BPOs do you believe there are in game, and which ones exactly can shut down all invention? If a single BPO can shut down all invention, what does it tell you about demand for that particular item? Have you actually done invention? A T2 BPO owner is limited on how many items he can make in a given time period. Inventors can create virtually unlimited runs that can be built simultaneously. If there is a lot of demand for Ishtars (for instance) an you build Ishtars is it more advantageous to be able to manufacture them using 1 manufacturing slot, or 10 at once? "That Sucks" sounds a lot like jealousy to me. No, "that sucks" goes a long way to making invention even worse. And yes, there are definitely items where invention is not a thing because of the BPOs... devs have talked about it before, most recently in some of the industry threads. If you've got the right T2 BPO it will dominate that market to the point where it is literally impossible to profit from invention. In those particular cases, the production capabilities of the BPO outpace demand, apparently by a wide enough margin that normal playerbase growth will never offset it. I believe it's some certain ships... like the HACs or something. Or at least it used to be. I honestly don't know all the economic details of which ones, I just know what's shown up in devblogs, dev posts, and to a lesser extent what some of the players have said on the forums. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |

Dave Stark
5238
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 22:50:00 -
[79] - Quote
eve isn't fair, just make them vanish in to thin air one day. |

esquimo leviticus
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
5
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 22:56:00 -
[80] - Quote
Obvious troll is obvious.  |
|

Gamer4liff
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
83
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 23:07:00 -
[81] - Quote
The only thing wrong with T2 BPOs is that there is no legit way to get them without having to buy them from somebody like a chump. :colbert:
E: Oveur Did Nothing Wrong. |

MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
309
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 01:56:00 -
[82] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I don't have one. I just have a problem with CCP vaporizing player's CCP's assets to make up for their own past mistakes. FTFY
MDD |

Hurtado Soneka
Rogue of Blade
210
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 01:58:00 -
[83] - Quote
T2 BPOs should have be wiped out when invention got introduced, it shouldnt have taken this long |

Doireen Kaundur
Minmatar Republic
890
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 01:59:00 -
[84] - Quote
Who is T2-BPO?
Was he in star wars and why is he a problem?
|

Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1040
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 02:03:00 -
[85] - Quote
Reverse lottery: you win it, you lose your BPOs. It's only fair. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |

Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
157
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 02:10:00 -
[86] - Quote
mkint wrote: No, "that sucks" goes a long way to making invention even worse. And yes, there are definitely items where invention is not a thing because of the BPOs... devs have talked about it before, most recently in some of the industry threads. If you've got the right T2 BPO it will dominate that market to the point where it is literally impossible to profit from invention. In those particular cases, the production capabilities of the BPO outpace demand, apparently by a wide enough margin that normal playerbase growth will never offset it. I believe it's some certain ships... like the HACs or something. Or at least it used to be. I honestly don't know all the economic details of which ones, I just know what's shown up in devblogs, dev posts, and to a lesser extent what some of the players have said on the forums.
For those BPOs that make invention unfeasible due to there being more supply than demand, there's a simple solution: increase the time to produce items from those BPOs so that production from the BPOs alone can't keep up with demand. This will create room for inventors to step into the market. This is a far better solution than removing T2 BPOs from the game and shafting those who have them.
Admittedly, I personally own a Torpedo Launcher II BPO, but I rarely build from it anymore since the profit margin isn't exactly huge and the production rate is slow. An inventor can easily out-produce me just by building from multiple BPCs at once, making up in volume what he lacks in efficiency. |

Hurtado Soneka
Rogue of Blade
210
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 02:12:00 -
[87] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Revman Zim wrote: I don't do T2 manufacturing.
I just want the mechanics of EVE to be equal for all. This is an instance where it is NOT.
Note, I said MECHANICS. Not skills, not experience... etc. So don't try to derail and turn this into "making EVE easier".
O.K. You admittedly don't do T2 manufacturing so you have no idea what you are talking about and have never done the math because you'd know that invention is more lucrative. Just because you *believe* something is bad due to simple ignorance or because someone else told you to believe so is not a good reason for CCP to take something away from another player because you can't have it too. Gotcha. All is clear now. Original synopsis affirmed.
stop sounding like a stupid scrub, T2 BPOs outside the scope of invention should and WILL be eradicated.
/thread |

Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
229
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 02:14:00 -
[88] - Quote
I think that hurting t2 BPO owners is a good thing, because of jealousy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZOdADD5RNs&feature=youtu.be http://evemouthbreathers.blogspot.com/ https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=29554516-05f9-4eca-a942-32e1701a6569&action=buddy |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5625
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 02:15:00 -
[89] - Quote
Hurtado Soneka wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Revman Zim wrote: I don't do T2 manufacturing.
I just want the mechanics of EVE to be equal for all. This is an instance where it is NOT.
Note, I said MECHANICS. Not skills, not experience... etc. So don't try to derail and turn this into "making EVE easier".
O.K. You admittedly don't do T2 manufacturing so you have no idea what you are talking about and have never done the math because you'd know that invention is more lucrative. Just because you *believe* something is bad due to simple ignorance or because someone else told you to believe so is not a good reason for CCP to take something away from another player because you can't have it too. Gotcha. All is clear now. Original synopsis affirmed. stop sounding like a stupid scrub, T2 BPOs outside the scope of invention should and WILL be eradicated. /thread Except, of course, that he is right.  To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
370
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 02:18:00 -
[90] - Quote
I would love to see all T2 BPOs just eliminated completely, the recent changes makes copies more competitive but BPOs will always remain king simply because of the negative ME factor. I've heard quite a few BPO owners getting butt-hurt over this and to tell you the truth its because they cant be the proverbial bully in the sandbox holding a toy over a little child's head (in industrial terms that is). They wanted massive superiority and they are getting that reduced, they still hold an upper hand just not a huge one anymore. They should be thankful for that, personally I'd rather eradicate all of them period, they were a mistake to the game and has haunted the markets since. Take a look at Deep Space Probes for example, when Odyssey removed those the probes got converted over as did any DSP BPOs...no one got to keep them, granted they wouldn't really have much of a usage to build them except nostalgia; however, the concept remains the same, an item was removed from the game. Although...T2 BPOs weren't technically removed so much as just not seeded for sell anymore.
SO yes, get the Jovians to do a raid on everyone and get them back after all, according to John Rourke, "getting this tech out of the universe can only be a good thing."  |
|

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5625
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 02:30:00 -
[91] - Quote
If this comes to pass, I'll adapt and adjust as I always have. Invention has always been far more lucrative for me than my T2 BPO's have anyway... which is precisely the same boat all others producing with them are in.
The only markets where T2 BPO's out pace Invention in terms of percentage of supply are those items that move very slowly in comparison with the rest of the market (my Pilgrim BPO is an excellent example of this). It's kind of hard to become filthy rich with a slow manufacturing BPO of an item that isn't particularly popular.
Someone brought to my attention some figure a dev dragged out a couple of years ago that said Pilgrim's produced from invention only made up 20% of their total sales, with the rest coming from T2 BPO's. Now we all know that Pilgrims are not exactly in high demand, so I suppose that might still be true.
But consider that Pilgrims are about to be buffed. If this process turns out well their popularity will sky rocket, while the amount produced from BPO's will not change. The lions share will be created from Invention, just like 2/3rds of the products for which T2 BPO's are available.
Now what factor do you think would hold those prices (which will inevitably rise) in check? Yeah, you guessed it... T2 BPO producers. In fact, the main factor keeping the prices in line on all T2 items are the fact that some influence on pricing is exerted from the slow but steady supply of these items created from BPO's.
So you folks go right ahead making things "fair" for everyone at the greedy T2 BPO owners expense, it won't bother me a bit. In fact I'll be highly amused as prices start trending steadily upwards on all T2 items, especially on my soon to be buffed Pilgrims and for the ever popular Guardians that I also produce. I'll be just fine.
Will you?  To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5709
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 03:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
Pilgrims are about to be buffed? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|

firepup82
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 03:21:00 -
[93] - Quote
How are they broken? Just sounds like a bunch if Indy people mad that they don't have one. Exactly how are they broken? |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5627
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 03:30:00 -
[94] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Pilgrims are about to be buffed? Yep, they announced that Recons are getting reworked in the ship balancing discussion at fan fast. The Pilgrim in particular was described as being one of the ones most in need of buffing. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5627
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 03:35:00 -
[95] - Quote
firepup82 wrote:How are they broken? Just sounds like a bunch if Indy people mad that they don't have one. Exactly how are they broken? Apparently they long for the olden days, where a good HAC could cost from 300 to 500mil and up.
Of course, back then you'd be on a waiting list for it for a few months as well. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5709
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 03:39:00 -
[96] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Pilgrims are about to be buffed? Yep, Fozzie and Rise announced that Recons are getting reworked next in the ship balancing discussion at Fanfest. The Pilgrim in particular was described as being one of the ones most in need of buffing.
Glad to hear that, I use that ship. The entire class could use EHP buffs, however, not just the Pilgrim. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5260
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 03:43:00 -
[97] - Quote
firepup82 wrote:How are they broken? Just sounds like a bunch if Indy people mad that they don't have one. Exactly how are they broken?
Prince Kobol wrote:Goons want your T2 BPO'S
Goons sperg post to create panic that they all going to get removed and your going to be holding nothing.
Stupid people rush to sell their T2 BPO's for next to nothing.
Goons buy lots of T2 BPO's very cheap and laugh at how stupid people are.
CCP announce they will do something to T2 BPO's in soon..
x number of years later T2 BPO's still exist in their current form.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Netan MalDoran
Yumping Amok Apocalypse Now.
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 03:45:00 -
[98] - Quote
CCP, why remove T2 BPO's? Are they majorly hurting anyone or are you just succumbing to the whines of the carebear indys who are playing with penny profits? I mean really, it's like you just deleting the Goonswarm alliance just because half of the players of EvE hate them, but I don't see you doing that because there would be an outrage and there would be a permanent burn Jita. If you do need to compensate, the likes of 3 free Plex/month sounds nice to the BPO holders. |

sloany
House Of Serenity. Disband.
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 03:45:00 -
[99] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:...snip... *citation needed*
The solution to T2 BPOs was invention, and it's done its job. You just need to see the price reduction of Cap Recharger IIs pre and post invention to see this.
This whole topic and been trashed out over the years in many threads and I'm yet to read a cohesive argument why any further action should be taken. T2 BPOs have lost their power, there are only a few markets left where they still dominate, and this is due to low demand. If anything the action CCP should take is to buff these items to increase demand and encourage invention participation.
T2 BPOs are something for industrialist to aspire to, just as PvP alliances aspire to own a titan. However they are not the be all and end all of the game. |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5628
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 04:20:00 -
[100] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:firepup82 wrote:How are they broken? Just sounds like a bunch if Indy people mad that they don't have one. Exactly how are they broken? Prince Kobol wrote:Goons want your T2 BPO'S
Goons sperg post to create panic that they all going to get removed and your going to be holding nothing.
Stupid people rush to sell their T2 BPO's for next to nothing.
Goons buy lots of T2 BPO's very cheap and laugh at how stupid people are.
CCP announce they will do something to T2 BPO's in soon..
x number of years later T2 BPO's still exist in their current form. I believe you scored a direct hit.
Especially when you consider upcoming changes to null sec industry and copy creation.  To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
|

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5628
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 04:23:00 -
[101] - Quote
sloany wrote:Weaselior wrote:...snip... *citation needed* The solution to T2 BPOs was invention, and it's done its job. You just need to see the price reduction of Cap Recharger IIs pre and post invention to see this. This whole topic and been trashed out over the years in many threads and I'm yet to read a cohesive argument why any further action should be taken. T2 BPOs have lost their power, there are only a few markets left where they still dominate, and this is due to low demand. If anything the action CCP should take is to buff these items to increase demand and encourage invention participation. T2 BPOs are something for industrialist to aspire to, just as PvP alliances aspire to own a titan. However they are not the be all and end all of the game. What a dull game it would be without something to aspire to. Yes even industrialists need something to aspire to. This is not hello kitty island adventure, or some other game where everyone is treated equally. This is Eve Online. The world is cruel, and you don't get what you want, but you have the opportunity to. If anyone wants to remove T2 BPOs from the game, buy them out and trash them, or infiltrate corporations who own them and steal them. Yep, the only danger with T2 BPO's was the possibility of a cartel developing.
Invention prevents this from happening on all but the lowest demand items, markets which would be pointless to control anyway.
In return now T2 BPO's act as a buffer that prevents invention products from escalating too high in price by providing just enough product at a reasonable price to keep the market from inflating too much on high demand items. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9504
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 04:27:00 -
[102] - Quote
So what I'm reading is "T2 BPOs suck but I'd still be really upset if they took mine away". "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5628
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 04:42:00 -
[103] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:So what I'm reading is "T2 BPOs suck but I'd still be really upset if they took mine away".

No, actually just the opposite.
T2 BPO's are decent but can easily be surpassed by a decent Invention chain in terms of income.
While I wouldn't be pleased if they were removed, I'd be fine... they are far from my most lucrative income stream. Plus I fully realize that I literally own nothing in EVE. They, and everything else in the game, ultimately belongs to CCP.
I will, however, point it out when people spout myth as fact. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

Nariya Kentaya
State Protectorate Caldari State
1233
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 04:52:00 -
[104] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:So what I'm reading is "T2 BPOs suck but I'd still be really upset if they took mine away".  No, actually just the opposite. T2 BPO's are decent but can easily be surpassed by a well thought out Invention chain in terms of income. While I wouldn't be pleased if they were removed, I'd be fine... they are far from my most lucrative income stream. Plus I fully realize that I literally own nothing in EVE. They, and everything else in the game, ultimately belongs to CCP. I will, however, point it out when people spout myth as fact, as well as when people are shooting themselves in the foot. Assets shoudl NEVER be deleted/recycled, or any variation of the above. Made inert/unusable? sure, mayeb with compensation if theyre nice, but collectors collect colectables for a reason, not to make money off them, but to say they own a limited piece of EVE history. |

Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1382
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 05:33:00 -
[105] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Goons want your T2 BPO'S
Goons sperg post to create panic that they all going to get removed and your going to be holding nothing.
Stupid people rush to sell their T2 BPO's for next to nothing.
Goons buy lots of T2 BPO's very cheap and laugh at how stupid people are.
CCP announce they will do something to T2 BPO's in soon..
x number of years later T2 BPO's still exist in their current form. Goons own many T2 BPOs (gotta spend that tech money somehow).
But fighting the nerf would be a very ungoony thing to do.
So goons support and publicize the nerf and rely on you to prevent it. |

mkint
1178
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 05:34:00 -
[106] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:So what I'm reading is "T2 BPOs suck but I'd still be really upset if they took mine away". That's pretty much what it boils down to. Some people (usually BPO owners) seem to disagree that it's a bad thing that a single person can fulfill 100% of all demand for half a million players. Those people who promote that agenda are wrong. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10575
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 05:36:00 -
[107] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Goons own many T2 BPOs (gotta spend that tech money somehow).
But fighting the nerf would be a very ungoony thing to do.
So goons support and publicize the nerf and rely on you to prevent it.
yeah no our finance team isn't dumb enough to have invested in them Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5267
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 05:37:00 -
[108] - Quote
mkint wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:So what I'm reading is "T2 BPOs suck but I'd still be really upset if they took mine away". That's pretty much what it boils down to. Some people (usually BPO owners) seem to disagree that it's a bad thing that a single person can fulfill 100% of all demand for half a million players. Those people who promote that agenda are wrong.
Please provide at least 2 specific examples where this is happening right now.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

mkint
1178
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 05:46:00 -
[109] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:mkint wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:So what I'm reading is "T2 BPOs suck but I'd still be really upset if they took mine away". That's pretty much what it boils down to. Some people (usually BPO owners) seem to disagree that it's a bad thing that a single person can fulfill 100% of all demand for half a million players. Those people who promote that agenda are wrong. Please provide at least 2 specific examples where this is happening right now.
I don't have the in depth data to know. I just read dev quotes. And have been reading every dev quote and dev blog for the past 6 years. Grayscale said just last week that T2 BPOs fall into two categories. Either they either completely dominate the production, or they represent a minor percentage of production. It was part of the feedback on the industry dev blogs. Keep up. A couple years ago, if I recall the dev posts correctly, I think the biggest examples were HACs and HICs, though I could be misremembering that. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5267
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 06:07:00 -
[110] - Quote
mkint wrote:Doc Fury wrote:mkint wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:So what I'm reading is "T2 BPOs suck but I'd still be really upset if they took mine away". That's pretty much what it boils down to. Some people (usually BPO owners) seem to disagree that it's a bad thing that a single person can fulfill 100% of all demand for half a million players. Those people who promote that agenda are wrong. Please provide at least 2 specific examples where this is happening right now. I don't have the in depth data to know. I just read dev quotes. And have been reading every dev quote and dev blog for the past 6 years. Grayscale said just last week that T2 BPOs fall into two categories. Either they either completely dominate the production, or they represent a minor percentage of production. It was part of the feedback on the industry dev blogs. Keep up. A couple years ago, if I recall the dev posts correctly, I think the biggest examples were HACs and HICs, though I could be misremembering that.
Hopefully you can understand that any rational person would need to see some actual evidence of this happening before they could accept your claims as nothing but anecdotal.
You have made your claims quite authoritatively at least twice about this, please show us where you got your information exactly and name at least 2 Tech II items in game right now where a single person can fulfill 100% of all demand for 500,000 players.
I'd like to be able to see for myself what this great injustice is, and how broken it is. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|

Gridloader
Limitless Capabilities
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 08:57:00 -
[111] - Quote
T2 BPOs should be added to market same as T1 BPOs.... to be available for everyone.... maybe even for titan prise.... but for everyone |

Rain6637
Team Evil
14325
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 09:13:00 -
[112] - Quote
it's a pretty underhanded move to announce T2 BPOs will be done away with, any length of time before the change is made. as they devalue due to the announcement, the fair compensation is reduced. I think a fair compensation would be a snapshot of their values prior to the announcement, in BPCs or liquid ISK.
that said, I don't think they need to go anywhere. their viability as a production option is zero for anyone who bought them, and people who were the original lottery owners should continue to realize their benefit.
In fact I think it would be a shame to remove T2 BPOs. like any other rare item, they should continue to be used, or traded, or collected.
don't touch the T2 BPOs, they have guardian-vexor status.
edit: OR... bring the lottery back. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Rainfleet Mk III-á |

Big Lynx
Do you even Exist. Darwins Lemmings
415
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 09:20:00 -
[113] - Quote
Has anyone a link to the a record of the stream where that T2 bpo issue is discussed? thank you |

Rain6637
Team Evil
14325
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 09:23:00 -
[114] - Quote
why did lotteries stop anyway? i'm thinking they could have avoided this situation by letting them continue. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Rainfleet Mk III-á |

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1321
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 09:51:00 -
[115] - Quote
Assuming this isn't Goonswarm trying to stampede a market yet again.
10*6 month run worth of BPC's would be more than enough compensation. This is the equivalent of 5 years of production, yet it will take far less than 5 years for it's effects to leave the market since they can run parallel lines rather than only one. Personally I think you could drop at low as about 3 years split over 10 copies and still be quite fair. Also a cosmetic only item saying they owned a T2 BPO in some way would also be fair.
This means that only the latest people to buy BPO's & only if they bought BPO's at stupidly high prices would be out of pocket. A Dev released some market figures back a bit showing a lot of the ones actually traded had a 3-5 year return at the time on investment. A few bizarrely had negative returns, which means people were inventing them at below cost, since there is no way a BPO can cost more to build than an invented BPC if any research has been done at all. |
|

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
11850
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 09:53:00 -
[116] - Quote
With the changes to POS'es and BPOs having to be in the POS I know my cost just went up since I will then (if I continue to use the BPO) use stations for manufacturing. With that in mind, I there's even less advantage over inventors that already run 11 jobs simultaneously over my 1 job.
tbh the ROI on the BPOs are years, most inventors (and ultimately going producer) are thinking short term, not 5+ years (from the views I've gotten anyway) which makes the BPOs even less of a threat.
I get CCP's reason to remove it, but ultimately feel that the reasons for players wanting them removed comes down to jealousy (but yes I agree, the lottery system was pretty **** to begin with).
I would vote for them to stay because of two main reasons, they are a part of the EVE history, one that may have been unfair, but still represent an era that kinda made pilots a huge power having one (or more) - then getting shafted by new and aggressive inventors cornering markets, and secondly I want them to stay because they fulfill a role of industrialists, the long-term planning industrialist that isn't looking at fast ISK, but rather speculating of good ROI over a years of time.
I can't say that I see many gamers around going into a game with a 5 year plan - except in EVE!
/c
|
|

Aluka 7th
139
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 10:13:00 -
[117] - Quote
I find it funny that Goon starts the thread of T2 BPO sky falling thus crashing the price of those BPOs and then other Goons buy now cheaper T2 BPOs which are strategical item for their 0.0 alliance.
Good job! Nice timing considering that in summer expansion T2 BPOs are getting boosted!
Based on facts in dev blogs: - T2 BPO will get faster copy time so no need to risk it in 0.0 you can just bring copies to 0.0 and keep it in highsec - Invented BPOs with ME -1, -2, -3, ... are getting worse regarding materials because of new base material level for multiplying with ME will be 1.1111x higher - new cost structure (teams, tax, installation cost) will raise the cost of invention making T2 BPO more profitable. - T2 BPO which mostly have ME and PE higher then 10 will now be perfect in new system thus having material cost reduced even more.
You guys are the kings of manipulation! o7 |

Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2797
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 10:47:00 -
[118] - Quote
Not sure if this is an honest post or a market manipulation, but the evidence will be clear in a day or two.
I say, set the T2 BPOs to -200% time efficiency (unimproveable) as a first nerf. They'll still be profitable to own. Invention will offer better ISK per production line hour, but T2 BPOs will offer better margins and returns per player minute spent managing jobs.
Then in the future, replace the BPOs with 10 BPCs that are +10% material efficiency and +20% time efficiency ('perfect'), each with enough runs for one month's production (rounded up). Set the universe on fire - then sell the survivors ash. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |

Pubbie Spy
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 11:06:00 -
[119] - Quote
Anyone dumb enough to buy BPOs in TYOOL 2014 on the assumption they were going to remain profitable for a decade deserves to be laughed out of the room, and a few bittervets crying because their isk printing machine gets taken away shouldn't prevent CCP from finally cleaning up the mess they created years ago. |

Big Lynx
Do you even Exist. Darwins Lemmings
415
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 11:09:00 -
[120] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Has anyone a link to the a record of the stream where that T2 bpo issue is discussed? thank you
plz |
|

BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
146
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 11:13:00 -
[121] - Quote
I don't care who loses what. As long as I keep everything... |

Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
115
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 11:18:00 -
[122] - Quote
I expect the T2 BPO's will be removed when the method for Invention is reworked - probably in the winter 2014 update. I don't know how many pilots own T2 BPO's but it's going to be a relatively small percentage of the playerbase. Far less people upset than the change to DUST 514 induced and CCP didn't seem to reluctant to commit to that change.
As to compensation rates I would suggest the following:
Pilots who were original owners of T2 BPO and have held them since receiving them : No compensation.
Pilots who have bought T2 BPO from other pilots : PLEX to the value of 10 billion ISK per T2 BPO at time of change.
An alternative to this would be to remedy the situation where T2 BPC from invention come out at -4/-4 to make the production difference less wasteful and level out the playing field. It would probably be better to make a clean slate though and just remove the T2 BPO once and for all. |

Rain6637
Team Evil
14325
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 11:51:00 -
[123] - Quote
BrundleMeth wrote:I don't care who loses what. As long as I keep everything... what an uncanny resemblance President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Rainfleet Mk III-á |

Pubbie Spy
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 11:53:00 -
[124] - Quote
Aluka 7th wrote:I find it funny that Goon starts the thread of T2 BPO sky falling thus crashing the price of those BPOs and then other Goons buy now cheaper T2 BPOs which are strategical item for their 0.0 alliance.
Good job! Nice timing considering that in summer expansion T2 BPOs are getting boosted!
Based on facts in dev blogs: - T2 BPO will get faster copy time so no need to risk it in 0.0 you can just bring copies to 0.0 and keep it in highsec - Invented BPOs with ME -1, -2, -3, ... are getting worse regarding materials because of new base material level for multiplying with ME will be 1.1111x higher - new cost structure (teams, tax, installation cost) will raise the cost of invention making T2 BPO more profitable. - T2 BPO which mostly have ME and PE higher then 10 will now be perfect in new system thus having material cost reduced even more.
You guys are the kings of manipulation! o7
o7m8n9 fellow capsuleer!
If you seriously believe that we produce a meaningful percentage of the ships and modules we lose every day ourselves, I have cheap beachfront property in San Francisco to sell to you! |

Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1518
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 13:13:00 -
[125] - Quote
Fanfest Industry Panel
Go to 3:40:40 Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |

Big Lynx
Do you even Exist. Darwins Lemmings
415
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 13:25:00 -
[126] - Quote
thanks but i dont pay $20 for that. xD |

Aluka 7th
139
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 13:47:00 -
[127] - Quote
Pubbie Spy wrote:Aluka 7th wrote:I find it funny that Goon starts the thread of T2 BPO sky falling thus crashing the price of those BPOs and then other Goons buy now cheaper T2 BPOs which are strategical item for their 0.0 alliance.
Good job! Nice timing considering that in summer expansion T2 BPOs are getting boosted!
Based on facts in dev blogs: - T2 BPO will get faster copy time so no need to risk it in 0.0 you can just bring copies to 0.0 and keep it in highsec - Invented BPOs with ME -1, -2, -3, ... are getting worse regarding materials because of new base material level for multiplying with ME will be 1.1111x higher - new cost structure (teams, tax, installation cost) will raise the cost of invention making T2 BPO more profitable. - T2 BPO which mostly have ME and PE higher then 10 will now be perfect in new system thus having material cost reduced even more.
You guys are the kings of manipulation! o7 o7m8n9 fellow capsuleer! If you seriously believe that we produce a meaningful percentage of the ships and modules we lose every day ourselves, I have cheap beachfront property in San Francisco to sell to you!
Depends on the item, some items (command ships or recons) are dominated by BPO and you produce all/most with BPO, modules you produce with invention. I agree with you that in most cases BPOs are not influencing the invention because of well known psc/day limitation. http://k162space.com/2012/07/17/percentage-of-items-from-invention-vs-tech-2-bpo/
Still owning as much BPOs as you (Goons) can removes risk of not having enough invented BPCs, reduces the load on your "limited" amounts of T2 materials and allows you to have more ships from faster manufacturing. If with couple of "OMG THEY ARE NERFING T2 BPOs" posts that Goons write, you manage to crash prices by 50% then your trillions will buy twice as much T2 BPOs at the end of the day and you will be stronger as alliance.
Respect. |

Nariya Kentaya
State Protectorate Caldari State
1235
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 14:00:00 -
[128] - Quote
Aluka 7th wrote:Pubbie Spy wrote:Aluka 7th wrote:I find it funny that Goon starts the thread of T2 BPO sky falling thus crashing the price of those BPOs and then other Goons buy now cheaper T2 BPOs which are strategical item for their 0.0 alliance.
Good job! Nice timing considering that in summer expansion T2 BPOs are getting boosted!
Based on facts in dev blogs: - T2 BPO will get faster copy time so no need to risk it in 0.0 you can just bring copies to 0.0 and keep it in highsec - Invented BPOs with ME -1, -2, -3, ... are getting worse regarding materials because of new base material level for multiplying with ME will be 1.1111x higher - new cost structure (teams, tax, installation cost) will raise the cost of invention making T2 BPO more profitable. - T2 BPO which mostly have ME and PE higher then 10 will now be perfect in new system thus having material cost reduced even more.
You guys are the kings of manipulation! o7 o7m8n9 fellow capsuleer! If you seriously believe that we produce a meaningful percentage of the ships and modules we lose every day ourselves, I have cheap beachfront property in San Francisco to sell to you! Depends on the item, some items like command ships or recons are dominated by BPO and those you produce all/most from BPOs, modules you produce with invention. I agree with you that in most cases BPOs are not influencing the invention because of well known psc/day limitation which most of whiners on forums blatantly ignore. http://k162space.com/2012/07/17/percentage-of-items-from-invention-vs-tech-2-bpo/IMHO owning as much BPOs as you (Goons) can reduces your risk of not having enough invented BPCs, reduces the load on "limited" amounts of T2 materials and allows you to have more ships from faster manufacturing. If with couple of "OMG THEY ARE NERFING T2 BPOs" posts that Goons write, you manage to crash prices by 50% then you quite easily save a pile of ISKies and your trillions will buy twice as much T2 BPOs at the end of the day making you stronger as alliance. You guys are awesome! Respect. whats funny, is they arent owned all by goons, and most of them (for a nominal fee) would be mroe than happy to part with a T2 BPO.
Know why? because it takes YEARS to make up the investment people have put into purchasing a T2 BPO from another person, whereas it takes at most a couple weeks to start beign profitable with invention.
People who want T2 BPO's completely removed and deleted, are often times the ones who want SP resets, safer highsec, and all manner of things simply because they dont have it, and feel entitled to everything everyone else has. |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
300
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 14:07:00 -
[129] - Quote
T2BPO's will be reimbursed for the research points they were traded for. If players traded them for ISK then that is their problem they were worth a limited amount of research points and that is what you are getting when they are removed. Any value prescribed over the research points was player speculation and anyone bitter about failed speculations should HTFU!
Enjoy,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zSQNl4V_R88#t=4
and so ends the saddest chapter in EVE, T2BPO's stood for everything that EVE does not. |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5287
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 14:13:00 -
[130] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:T2BPO's will be reimbursed for the research points they were traded for. If players traded them for ISK then that is their problem they were worth a limited amount of research points and that is what you are getting when they are removed. Any value prescribed over the research points was player speculation and anyone bitter about failed speculations should HTFU!
LOL.
Good luck with your misinformation campaign.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
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Adunh Slavy
1375
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 14:45:00 -
[131] - Quote
If they will remove them or not, who knows.
How to do it in a fair way ... what about this:
Take the last known sale price of the BPO and divide it by the average sale price of the item in question, and use the result, rounded up to the nearest integer, as the number of runs on a BPC.
The owner will, over time, regain what ISK they used to purchase the BPO. Where he 'looses', but not really, is the removal of the old profit margin, supplanted by a new profit margin.
So for instance, tech 2 widgets sell for 50 million, and the BPO's last sale price was one billion. So the BPO owner gets a 20 run BPC with all of the BPOs most recent ME/PE values.
The owner builds and sells his 20 widgets, he gets back his billion. His new profit margin is built upon two things: The reduction in available 'runs' of the item, a source of unlimited runs is removed, basic supply and demand. And the BPO owner likely had a researched BPO, or at worst a BPO with out negative ME and PE, which is better than invented BPCs.
The variable here is, how much does the profit margin change when the BPO's unlimited runs is removed. It certainly won't be negative. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |

HeXxploiT
Little Red X
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 15:39:00 -
[132] - Quote
People are suckers. The reason so many of you are poor is because you're afraid to take risks. How many of you were actually present when greyscale said this?
Guys some of the BPO's will be brought inline that is all. Now pardon me as I trade this **** into oblivion. |

Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
377
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 17:19:00 -
[133] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Collectible stuff. Not an actual asset.
Mines would like a word with you. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1236

|
Posted - 2014.05.04 17:38:00 -
[134] - Quote
When and how T II BPO's will be removed and if, how or in what form owners will be compensated is not known. CCP will make that information public if and when they decide it is time to do so. Until then, any thread on it can only be based on speculation. Hence, thread locked.
The Rules: 31. Rumor mongering is prohibited.
Rumor threads and posts which are based off no actual solid information and are designed to either troll or annoy other users will be locked and removed. These kinds of threads and posts are detrimental to the well being and spirit of the EVE Online Community, and can create undue panic among forum users, as well as adding to the workload of our moderators.
ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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