And now we get to the root of your misconception.

You're assuming that they already don't have their eyes on highsec.

We are maintaining that they already do. And that it should stay that way.

Of course they should be keeping an eye on high sec.

Doesn't it feel good to finally take a stand against botting where ever it might occur, whether that be high sec or low sec or null sec?

Glad you agree.


You can't kill as many miners as I have without killing a crapload of bots into the bargain. So I've been doing that for years now.

Well until just now you've been adamantly opposed to CCP focusing their anti-botting efforts across all of New Eden, instead arguing that they should almost entirely focus their efforts on high sec and leave null sec free for botters, so I'd say you only took a stand against botting in high sec before. It's just great that you're finally willing to agree that CCP should be applying their enforcement across all of New Eden in a meaningful and efficient manner instead of applying it in a lopsided and backwards way like you were arguing prior. I'm truly proud of you, finally standing up and saying botting in null sec is just as serious an offense as botting in high sec. Congratulations. Like I said, it took a long time, the journey was arduous, but here we are. I didn't really believe you could do it. Not even a little bit. But it's good to be wrong once in a while. Keeps me humble.

Well until just now you've been adamantly opposed to CCP focusing their anti-botting efforts across all of New Eden

What I am arguing is that CCP is already focused on highsec, by virtue of highsec being the vast majority of botting.

Congratulations on putting words in to everyones mouths I guess.

You know that CCP focuses on every area equally right? And you know that regardless of what anyone says they will continue to focus on every area equally right?

I'm only kind of unsure what you mean, as he has opposed mine and Mr Epeen's opinions that CCP should target botting in all areas of New Eden equally. He repeatedly argued that CCP should instead be splitting their attention up, focusing on high sec between 60% and 80% of the time and only giving null sec 10% of their attention. That would, obviously, leave null sec open to botters since they could operate knowing that they have only 1/6th to 1/8th, or less, the chance of being caught as they would have in high sec, where he has wanted CCP to focus almost all of their attention.

Ironically, CCP catch botters with an automated system that does not discriminate based on what area of space a person is botting in as does pretty much every large multiplayer game out there & this is unlikely to change. Also bot reports do actually work, but only if they can prove the person is actually botting.

Ironically, CCP catch botters with an automated system that does not discriminate based on what area of space a person is botting in as does pretty much every large multiplayer game out there & this is unlikely to change. Also bot reports do actually work, but only if they can prove the person is actually botting.

You know that CCP focuses on every area equally right? And you know that regardless of what anyone says they will continue to focus on every area equally right?

I'm only kind of unsure what you mean, as he has opposed mine and Mr Epeen's opinions that CCP should target botting in all areas of New Eden equally.

Yes. While I have little idea as to how their detection software actually works (possibly a system time input monitor), I am aware that it applies equally across all areas of space.

But when I say "focused" I mean this is where the majority of the bots are caught, where the bans are handed out, and where the bots that went under the radar still remain.

The majority of the bot detection and banning takes effect in highsec, by virtue of highsec being the culprit for most of the botting.

CCP spends equal resources per sec area

Why do you think that the CCP Security team operates on this basis? I think it's by far more likely that they allocate resources per bot program, and that they could care less about which sec area any specific individual using the current primary targetted botting application is operating in.

This is what we call being inefficient.

A thought experiment

Number of bots per sec area (85 : 5 : 5 : 5) (high : low : null : wh)

CCP has 100 resource units to spend combating this and for the simplicity of the math 1 resource = 1 bot banned.

CCP spends equal resources per sec area which means 25 units per area leaving us with

(60 : 0 : 0 : 0)

With a waste of 60 units and total bots banned 40; CCP wasted resources that could have been used dealing with bots. Should these resources have been used appropriately more bots would have been banned and a greater benefit been had by the player base.

Back to the original spread (85 : 5 : 5 : 5) (high : low : null : wh)

CCP has 100 resource units to spend and spends porpotionally via demographics.

CCP spends 85 units on highsec, 5 units on lowsec, 5 units on nullsec, and 5 units on wh leaving us with

(0 : 0 : 0 : 0)

CCP wastes no resources and bans 100 bots, considerably more than they did with an even spread. The resources were more properly used and the maximum amount of bots possible to be banned were banned. This is of greatest benefit to the player base.

Before you go off on some dumb tangent, no area was ignored in favor of others.

If this doesn't get the concept of resource allocation efficiency across to you I highly suggest you go visit your local church of scientology and join up.

Create untraceable account.
Purchase Mission running toon
Run HS Missions for x hours per day in NPC corp and Concord Protection
Earn Isk + LP
Launder Isk LP
x amount of time later account is banned

Create new untraceable account
Purchase Mission running toon
Run HS Missions for x hours per day in NPC corp and Concord Protection
Earn Isk + LP
Launder Isk + LP
x amount of time later account is banned

Rinse and repeat.

You know a very simply way to stop most HS botters, simply make it a requirement that you must be in a player run corp to run Level 4 missions.

Watch those numbers tumble

Why do you think that the CCP Security team operates on this basis? I think it's by far more likely that they allocate resources per bot program, and that they could care less about which sec area any specific individual using the current primary targetted botting application is operating in.

I don't but, there are people in this thread advocating for it, I'm trying to explain efficiency to a person that doesn't seem to get it. You can exchange sec area's with various programs and its the same idea.

So, since you just showed CCP must have banned all bots from high sec(look at the numbers after all), why are you still arguing that they should be focusing their resources so heavily there? Since they're gone, it's probably best if they spread their resources out so that they don't miss new bots popping up in other areas, right?

But honestly, you can't really believe that is how things work, can you? You just made up a few arbitrary numbers and then subtracted them. That isn't what I would call comprehensive science. After all, I can do it too.

CCP has 500 resource units to spend, and for simplicity's sake we'll say 1 unit = 1 bot banned. With a spread of 2222:543:657:78(High:Low:Null:WH), how should CCP spend their resource points? (Bonus points for showing your work)

In your equation you can exchange sec status with anything(SP in Exhumers, time spent ship spinning, ISK lost on SOMERblink) and it still ends at the same meaningless conclusion: that is not how it works, and since it doesn't work that way it should not be used as an argument for CCP to spend 85% of their time and effort looking at high sec and only 5% of their time and effort looking at each of the other sec statuses.

Let me guess, this has turned into another null versus hi-sec flame war?

I base my guess on seeing La Nariz and Kaarous having posts on the same page, all we need is Baltec 1 and we have the full set :)

I don't but, there are people in this thread advocating for it, I'm trying to explain efficiency to a person that doesn't seem to get it. You can exchange sec area's with various programs and its the same idea.

Number of bots per sec area (85 : 5 : 5 : 5) (high : low : null : wh)

CCP has 100 resource units to spend combating this and for the simplicity of the math 1 resource = 1 bot banned.

CCP spends equal resources per sec area which means 25 units per area leaving us with

(60 : 0 : 0 : 0)

In your equation you can exchange sec status with anything(SP in Exhumers, time spent ship spinning, ISK lost on SOMERblink) and it still ends at the same meaningless conclusion: that is not how it works, and since it doesn't work that way it should not be used as an argument for CCP to spend 85% of their time and effort looking at high sec and only 5% of their time and effort looking at each of the other sec statuses.

Your misunderstanding of the information presented to you by CCP security teams over three contiguous years is very sad.

CCP has repeatedly pointed out that they ban based on identifying bots. They identify bots by looking for suspicious behaviour. The suspicious behaviour shows up in logs, or is identified through player reports.



That's not how it works. If the 5 null sec bots in your example were removed with 5 units of effort, why would CCP keep trying to remove bots that aren't there? Are you making the assumption that CCP identifies bots by sitting in space watching people?

Here are some ways to identify bots:

• Look for behaviour that is repeated over a long period of time
• Frequency analysis of keystrokes
• Look for behaviour that doesn't belong to a particular type of ship (e.g.: warping to belt and sitting there for five minutes in a pod)
• Investigate player-generated bot-reports for evidence of botting

None of these discriminate based on security status. All of them are much more effective at locating bots than having CCP staff watch a particular area of space looking for odd behaviour.

Okay and if you read the past 10 or so posts you'd see I'm trying to explain resource efficiency to someone who doesn't quite get it.

Let me guess, this has turned into another null versus hi-sec flame war?

I base my guess on seeing La Nariz and Kaarous having posts on the same page, all we need is Baltec 1 and we have the full set :)

That's a losing fight. You made the classic blunder of "arguing with an idiot." They will bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.