You're pretty much only seeing what you want to see. Nothing I wrote supports your argument.

One simple question: Prince Kobol, La Nariz, why the hell are you guys defending botting in null sec?

One simple question: Prince Kobol, La Nariz, why the hell are you guys defending botting in null sec?

Quit the war on highsec, it utterly destroys your credibility when every post you make is about nerfing highsec because you want it to be nerfed.

Goons win the war on highsec, watch subscription numbers fall.....
All your proposed anti bot measures like banning level 4's will do is cement your place as untouchable. People need to be able to make a good income to even consider starting to challenge a dug in group. Null is better income, the fact 72% of NPC ships killed are in Null, meaning at least 72% of bounties come from null, meaning at least 50% of the isk faucets come from Null says so.
Quit the war on highsec, it utterly destroys your credibility when every post you make is about nerfing highsec because you want it to be nerfed.

So i have a proposal for tackling the issue. Alongside the proposed reduction in rat drops of refinable loots we also lower the bounties of rats found in belts and anomalies as well as removing any chance or seriously reducing the chance of faction spawns in said belts and anomalys.

Goons win the war on highsec, watch subscription numbers fall.....
All your proposed anti bot measures like banning level 4's will do is cement your place as untouchable. People need to be able to make a good income to even consider starting to challenge a dug in group. Null is better income, the fact 72% of NPC ships killed are in Null, meaning at least 72% of bounties come from null, meaning at least 50% of the isk faucets come from Null says so.
Quit the war on highsec, it utterly destroys your credibility when every post you make is about nerfing highsec because you want it to be nerfed.

Who ever said they wanted level 4's banned?

These kind of Dinsdale Hyperbole Style comments destroy any kind of argument you are trying to make and people will just ignore everything else you have to say.

Are the behaviours of ratting bots in null sec easier to distinguish from the behaviours of exuberantly ratting/missioning players in hisec?

I agree with Mike Azariah. Mining needs to be less mind numbingly predictable.

Add Loot Spew to mining 2014.

You have to admit, it would kill botting.

I'm sorry, I had to go to bed last night after my last post, so I haven't been able to keep up with this thread. I've read the replies, however, and I'm ready to admit it:

La Nariz, Prince Kobol, you guys have convinced me that it is a good idea for CCP to focus their limited resources on those aspects of EvE where large amounts of botting are occurring. Therefore, they should be focused on the alliance that has accounted for 21% of all bots banned in the past 16 months. At nearly a quarter of all bots banned coming from them, it is obvious there is a systemic problem within that alliance and CCP should address said problem by watching that alliance more closely than they do others. It seems unfair to other alliances, that have far far far less botting than this one alliance, if CCP would focus their efforts on them just because they happen to play EvE in the same sec status as the botters in this alliance. The first step should be to flag not only that one alliance that is responsible for a large chunk of all botting, but also to flag any and all corps and other alliances that are associated with this alliance for further investigation. Through the use of IP addresses and credit card information CCP could easily track customers that have multiple accounts and could flag where this alliance's players intersect in order to track them. This tactic would ensure that CCP's limited resources are spent wisely, by simply targeting those groups that participate in botting most often. I'm not sure which alliance it might be that is systemically corrupt and loaded with bots, but they obviously warrant more attention than the average player in high sec.

I agree with Mike Azariah. Mining needs to be less mind numbingly predictable.

Add Loot Spew to mining 2014.

You have to admit, it would kill botting.

I would imagine CCP are already keeping a very close watch on that particular alliance, well I bloody hope they are.

However here is one of my biggest problems with CCP and why they will always struggle with catching botters / RMT etc.. it is too damn easy to create untraceable accounts.

You can create an account using false details + plex and very easily hide your IP.

Once they have successfully laundered (easily done) their isk they can keep creating untraceable accounts and purchasing characters.

Those who bot / rmt do not use credit card information, paypal, direct debit etc.. they use plex. They hide their IP address via various methods. They use disposable email accounts.

I have wanted CCP to introduce secure login tokens for years now, okay they are not infallible but they will certainly make a lot harder for people circumvent getting banned.

I'm glad you're finally off the crap about targeting all of high sec just to catch botters that are probably a part of one alliance. However, you cannot buy EvE Online with PLEX, you need to purchase it with some kind of cash or credit. Since the only option to hide your information in that situation is to buy a hard copy, and I don't think most botters are all that smart(after all, they're gathering in a single alliance and keep getting banned from that single alliance at rates greater than other alliances), it's likely they have purchased a digital copy of the game through CCP directly or Steam. Using the payment information gained through these two sources it's likely that CCP can just wait for it to pop up again when the botter rejoins the alliance responsible for 21% of all botters and then ban them again at the first instance of possible botting. Now this won't stop hacked accounts or stolen credit card information, but if a single alliance is responsible for having that many hacked accounts and members that use stolen credit card information then the entire alliance should just be banned, since obviously it is something that they are doing that attracts people that willfully violate the EULA, TOS and regional law.

Sorry to say you are wrong, you can use plex to convert a trial account to a full account.

http://community.eveonline.com/support/knowledge-base/article.aspx?articleId=495

Hence the problem of untraceable accounts.

Well you could begin to show where I have come out and supported botting let alone botting in null sec.

Oh that's right you cant because I haven't

I am probably the hardest on CCP and botters when it comes to botting and RMT.

I have said numerous times in various other posts over the years that CCP are part of the reason why we have issues with botting and RMT because it is too damn easy to create untraceable accounts.

Also I would have a 1 strike rule... get caught once and your banned.. no exceptions but that is me.

What I hate is people like Dinsdale who have such a blind hatred of any null sec alliance that they keep this ridiculous narrative that we are all evil and we all bot and we all RMT and that we somehow control CCP, which actually detracts from the discussion about how is best to eliminate botters/RMT'ers.

The facts are pretty damn simple.

CCP have limited resources.
Most Botting occurs in HS.

With those two facts it doesn't take a genius to concentrate your efforts in eliminating as many of those bots that operate in HS as that will have the greater effect.

Its a numbers game. Why ban a handful of people when you can ban hundreds or even thousands?

The great thing with low and null sec is that we the players can actually do something about botters as they do not have concord to protect them and bubbles are a wonderful thing, again another reason why they chose HS.

Also logistically, HS is a much easy place to operate out of then null sec.

On top of that you will actually find most null sec alliances, including Goons will not have botters in their corps.

I actually know a lot about the most of the botting problems work because I have obtained copies of them and looked at the code that drives them. I often visit their forums often to see how people are using them and what kind of technical issues they are having.

That helps me understand where they are being used and how to combat them in game if I see somebody I think is botting.

The fact is botting problems DO NOT differentiate what space they are being used in. The more advances programs use local if you so chose to, so if a red enters system your ship will automatically warp to a safe spot and will stay there until local is clear.

The thing is you have to ask yourself, where will I make the most isk if I am botting. HS will always win.

Why kill a few rats in null sec when you can run mission indefinitely, earning both isk and lp and do not have to worry about who is in local or bubbles?

You know you are going to get caught at some point so you want to maximise how much isk you can earn in that time with as little effort as possible and since CCP have made so damn easy to simply create account after account after account, then HS is the place to be.

Create untraceable account.
Purchase Mission running toon
Run HS Missions for x hours per day in NPC corp and Concord Protection
Earn Isk + LP
Launder Isk LP
x amount of time later account is banned

Create new untraceable account
Purchase Mission running toon
Run HS Missions for x hours per day in NPC corp and Concord Protection
Earn Isk + LP
Launder Isk + LP
x amount of time later account is banned

Rinse and repeat.

You know a very simply way to stop most HS botters, simply make it a requirement that you must be in a player run corp to run Level 4 missions.

Watch those numbers tumble

Goons win the war on highsec, watch subscription numbers fall.....
All your proposed anti bot measures like banning level 4's will do is cement your place as untouchable. People need to be able to make a good income to even consider starting to challenge a dug in group. Null is better income, the fact 72% of NPC ships killed are in Null, meaning at least 72% of bounties come from null, meaning at least 50% of the isk faucets come from Null says so.
Quit the war on highsec, it utterly destroys your credibility when every post you make is about nerfing highsec because you want it to be nerfed.

21%, while a "large chunk", is nowhere close to the 85%+ of all botting that highsec bears responsibility for.

Sorry to dissuade you from whatever "Grr Goons" you were getting warmed up, but the magnifying glass belongs on highsec, and it should stay there.

Caldari space in particular.

Funny I said something analogous yet they howled about everything I said.

fine by me
so long as your prepared to add the same mechanism to all other forms of activity with a similar interaction
(which means activities that involve lock target, press F1)

you still think it's a good suggestion ?

What do you mean "grr goons?" I'm merely quoting CCP's own numbers where it shows that 21% of all botters come from one alliance. They didn't name that alliance

What do you mean "grr goons?" I'm merely quoting CCP's own numbers where it shows that 21% of all botters come from one alliance. They didn't name that alliance, so I have no clue which alliance it might be. Someone with more experience in botting and botting friendly alliances would have to make an informed decision as to which alliance has harbored 3,000 plus bots in the past 16 months, and that person most definitely is not me. The only alliance I've been a part of is a tiny one with less than 50 active members. However, targeting high sec makes no sense. It just doesn't make sense to try to sift through hundreds of thousands of players in order to catch a few thousand. It makes far more sense to target the tens of thousands of players as part of those bot friendly alliances in order to catch the bots that are infesting said alliances. Where the botting takes place is immaterial. It's far more important to target those groups that are promoting and condoning botting such they represent the vast majority of bots. By targeting the alliance(s) or coalition(s) that has created a bot friendly environment CCP can nip this problem in bud and stop the proliferation of bots everywhere instead of targeting a huge portion of the playerbase and being unable to stop botting anywhere. As for your assumption that 85% or more of all botting takes place in high sec, I couldn't find any information to back it up. Will you please link or quote where CCP provided this information? Thanks man.

Good Lord, you actually are that dense.

The "Grr Goons" comes from your desperate attempts to deflect attention away from highsec and onto nullsec. Since we know for a indisputable fact that nullsec comprises a tiny minority of botting, you are only doing so with an agenda. Typically that agenda is "Grr Goons".

Oh, and as for that alliance, would you like me to tell you which one it is?

Caldari State.

Why doesn't targeting the area with the most botting make sense? 85% of botting in highsec.

I still can't find where that number comes from, please provide a link so we can clear this up.