Yeah I think it's hugely more fun to have frequent 100-300 v 100-300 sized fleet fights rather than very occasional 1500 v 1500 sized fleet fights.

Part of the fun of commanding legions of ships and conquering territory and enemies for glory and profit is doing it yourself from scratch. I don't think that's even possible anymore. If you don't believe me, try it. But I'd bet as soon as you start throwing around supers, you get some unwelcome attention and get blown back to serf-dom.

This does not take into account alts (which big alliances could help provide via outlays of isk for PLEX, something small groups cannot do) and even jump clones.

Big alliances would simply "pre-position" ships and alts/clones where they needed (npc null or low sec nearest the point of itnerest) and become even more entrenched than they are now.

It works like I said: at the moment if you want to hold territory in 0.0, literally everyone on the map is your neighbour. If you nerf radically power projection then you have a situation where eg: mighty Coalition A based in Deklein can't go pick on smaller group B based in Catch without leaving their home infrastructure vulnerable. Sure, they can go do it, but they'll be risking a lot. Also, Smaller Group B is very unlikely to join in on a cross-map attack on Mighty Group A, so there is less incentive to subdue or eradicate them in the first place.

Therefore mighty coalition A will be inclined to look for more important targets who are closer to home so that they can get back and protect their home systems and CSAA yards in time and which are relevent to their interests.

Meanwhile, because smaller group B isn't faced with immediate threat from Mighty Coalition A (unless they go out of their way to provoke them) they aren't under as much pressure to join Mighty Coalition B out of sheer self defence.

Yes, smaller group B might have slightly increased logistics issues, but the trade-off is that they only need to supply themselves sufficiently to fight a war vs smaller group C in Immensea.

In short, a power projection nerf means that it's not as necessary - or even useful - to keep on expanding bloc sizes until there are literally only 2 megablocs left.

So the tl;dr is that a PP nerf would possibly allow smaller groups to exist at all. After all, it could hardly make there be any fewer.

Also they can't possibly be more entrenched than they are now (short of CCP deeming the CFC and N3 new Empire Factions with fiat permanent sov)

Also they can't possibly be more entrenched than they are now (short of CCP deeming the CFC and N3 new Empire Factions with fiat permanent sov)

Of course they can if they know that other entities can not attack them due to needing such a long logistical chain that they do not have the manpower /ships / isk to accomplish it.

Yes actually it does. If you count jump cloning as one form of projection then that means that the Mighty Groups have to keep a "pre-position" fleet cache in literally every system that they want to defend.

Alts... yeah sorry no I'm not buying it. Are you saying that the blocs could straight up maintain multiple extra accounts for all their members? No they couldn't. That's Dinsdale thinking.

Also they can't possibly be more entrenched than they are now (short of CCP deeming the CFC and N3 new Empire Factions with fiat permanent sov)

I really do not see this working simply for the fact that all the major entities have enough alts / Cyno pilots / Titans and Titan pilots to make up for any nerf to jump range.

Hell all that needs to happen is for each member in CFC, NC, PL etc to create one cyno alt (pretty sure that these entities could even give a plex to each member to do this) and place one if not 2 cyno alts in every system.

Then what.. you have basically given the major entities licence to go even more wild because they know they can attack but because power project is nerfed the likelihood of there home being attacked is now even less

Same goes if you increase the fuel costs.

Look I do believe that Power Project is an issue but the genie is out of the bottle, you can't put it back in again. It is the same problem with Capitals.

If you nerf power project to such an extent that it causes major pain to the hurt the big powers then you have all but destroyed any chance for the smaller entities.

But what it does do is open them up to a two front war, which have, historically speaking been very hard to fight, but in Eve can be fought with relative ease. If they're all off chasing Small Entity A, Small Entity B can nibble off small chunks of space and vice versa until MegaSuperDuper Block A is reduced to a size it can actively defend. That's the point Malcanis is (I think) trying to make.

OP you dont get it.

The massive amount of RMT going on because of rentals is generating a few dozen dudes thousands of dollars in cash.

Alliance heads, CCP, they are all farming dollars out of it on the side. DEVs maybe not directly, but they probably get a cut in envelopes on the side, to keep situation stable, almost certainly.

There is a saying in russian for this: -é-â-+-+ -¦-¦-¦-+-+ -ü-é-Ç-+-ç-î. And they arent going to give up this cash cow. Not the alliance leaders, not others.

Simple as that.

While trying to figure out ways to make power projection nerfs 'stick' I considered the idea of not letting SOV alliances cyno through npc held areas. The same way countries don't allow some other countries to fly over their air space. I know that If I had to go completely around Curse to get to Providence i'd just leave them guys alone lol.

But that doesn't solve the problem while being a nightmare to implement. I think the best course for CCP is more "small group' centric tools + revisting the ability to 'live' in null. There is little reason to fight for nuill space when you can get what you need by having yoru alliance jsut join faction warfare lol (like TEST) did.

That brings me back to something I've said about CCP, you can't develop null in a vaccuum (space jokes aside). As long as i can plex 4 accounts using a single Tengu in NPC null (or faction war space or now regular low sec or high sec incursions/sisters/thukker missions) who cares about SOV null income lol.

I know some people wont agree, but think about it, its only heading in one direction -

This all day long.

I make zero isk from null sec yet I am able to plex 4 accounts and save to buy a super with ease.

Hell I have hardly been online over the past few months due to RL issues yet I am still able to make enough isk to pay for my 4 accounts.

There is so little incentive for anybody top band together and fight to live in null that large areas remain empty apart from the odd few running scanning down sites etc

Malcanis pretty much nailed it in one.

Yes, he put into two paragraphs what would actually need to entail a number of smaller issues to be addressed at the same time to be fully successful.

My point of view is basically we need to:

1: SHARPLY reduce the ability to easily move capitol fleets, either through time, logistics cost/complexity, range reduction, or likely a combination of all of these things.

2: SHARPLY reduce the ability to easily move large fleets of sub caps via the same methods.

3: Change SOV and/or game mechanics to render caps inferior to sub caps when it comes to taking Sov, making hard hitting and fast moving sub caps fleets more of a danger to SOV than Cap fleets.
Further changes to SOV mechanics (specifically timers) to allow timezone participation yes, but remove the ability to use it as a long term delaying tactic.

4: Holding large area's of space should get more profitable the larger those area's are, however they should also become far more difficult to effectively hold... with a distinct emphasis on the later.

5; It should be far easier for a small entity defending a single system than for a large entity to defend countless systems.

The end goal should be for it to be actually very easy to take a system or two (and perhaps easier to hold them) from a large entity. Bigger does not have to mean better.

Even if you lose that system you can easily go take another one until eventually the larger entity tires of retaking space they really don't need (and possibly can no longer afford the time to defend).

Multiple smaller area's of control, and multiple smaller scale engagements, are far far better than what we have now.

I dont know about you guys, but this really worries me.

The massive amount of RMT going on because of rentals is generating a few dozen dudes thousands of dollars in cash.

I find it hilarious how some people think the only way to take down a huge alliance is through firepower. Does no one remember how BoB was finally taken down?

I find it hilarious how some people think the only way to take down a huge alliance is through firepower. Does no one remember how BoB was finally taken down?

I find it hilarious how some people think the only way to take down a huge alliance is through firepower. Does no one remember how BoB was finally taken down?

answer - no.

And where will you be getting your supers from and in such supply that the overlords actually view you as a threat? Wont happen.

Nothing will ever change. If anything, get worse.

I believe this is why ccp has never made new regions available, since they will just be claimed for their moongoo and then rented out. whats the point in that? Not worth new regions imo. Situation sucks as is.

Elite: Dangerous all the way.