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Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
726
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Posted - 2014.06.17 18:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
I blogged this a year ago so I thought I would take a look at it a year later, make some tweaks to it, and vomit it back out onto the forums. 0.0 is supposed to be a sandbox, so why did CCP add SOV to it making it a slab of concrete?
CCP can you please get rid of SOV.
So letGÇÖs think about this for a few minutes. Null Sec with a clean SOV slate.GǪGǪ No more grinding structures, ping ponging timers, alarm clocking, and any other horrendous nightmares you can think of from the last 10 yearsGÇÖ experience. You can change/impact the Null Sec landscape every time you log in and not be subjected to weeks of structures, timers, camps, and blobsGǪ CCP wouldnGÇÖt be faced with trying to fix something thatGÇÖs always been GÇ£brokenGÇ¥, to make something else that can be GÇ£gamed by the fewGÇ¥ and gridlocked again like it is now. They can simply turned it offGǪGǪ..SOV all across 0.0 dropsGǪ..and the players take control over the new sandboxGǪ.
So what are some of the outcomes to doing thisGǪGǪGǪGǪSOV goes away effectively turning Null Sec back into the GÇ£Lawless SpaceGÇ¥ itGÇÖs always been advertised asGǪGǪGǪGǪ..Station and Out Post docking doors are flung wide open across all of Null Sec and 10 years of trapped assets are unlocked for thousands of current, and past, pilots to use again. Pilots are logging in by the thousands and Null Sec springs back to life.
GÇó Alliances are no longer pinned under the weight of coalitions in order to GÇ£keep their spaceGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪ..they simply need to live in, and actively defend it for it to be theirs.
GÇó Local and regional politics would develop with leaders/war lordGÇÖs etc. coming out of the wood works to govern with limited power to hold over playersGÇÖ heads.
GÇó Back room deals can be made by the lowest level grunt each day which could drastically impact what happens throughout a constellation or regionGǪGǪstronger relationships are born.
GÇó Contracts mechanics are developed to support regional trade and local deals.
GÇó Ninja living in Null Sec could be done by anyone who wanted to take the risk alone, in Corps, Alliances by choice while others hunted them.
GÇó Grass roots market HUBs and industry in Null Sec would grow to amazing size and use all over null secGǪ.Jita size HUBs policed by Mercs etcGǪGǪGǪ. Mos Isley Space Station etcGǪ
GÇó And so many other opportunities for player driven content would come to life all around 0.0 as players were free to move where they wanted if they were willing to take the risk and develop the relationships..
So no SOVGǪGǪGǪall the stations and out posts are free portedGǪGǪGǪ.now what? Where can I plant my Alliance flag? What will it be?........my thoughts a GǣAlliance Capital StationGǥGǪGǪdestructibleGǪGǪ
Alliance Capital Station - Each Alliance can launch one GÇ£Capital StationGÇ¥ (Per Region?) which is destructible. Mechanics of how itGÇÖs destructible, timers, and what drops is something CCP/Players can toy with.
Thoughts/options that CCP can build on to make it GÇ£specialGÇ¥:
GÇó GÇ£Capital StationsGÇ¥ allow for Super Carriers to dock GÇó Docking rights can be set in Capital Stations unlike the local free ported stations GÇó Super Carrier Construction Upgrade Slots to be added to the Capital Station GÇó Anchorable mods on the station, large guns, webs, etc. so gunners can use them and station can defend itself like a POS. GÇó Industry upgrades can be added, taxes collected, etc. GÇó It takes an Alliance to up keep itGǪ.they take fuel, food, dancers, janitors, cows, booze, drugs, etc to operate/maintainGǪor it goes off line.. GÇó Walking in station upgrades, Licenses granted for such things as Casinos, bars, shops etc..only available at Alliance Capital StationsGǪthe more come the more isk you make
EmbassyGÇÖs GÇô (Its already going on so why not make it official) An Alliance holding a Region with a Capital Station, can secure an GÇ£EmbassyGÇ¥ in a Free-Ported station in each of the Constellations within the Region held. The benefits of such an Embassy can be decided as this mechanics are hammered out. Maybe some sort of benefits to anyone using the station for trade, industry, or whatever which in turn allows the Alliance to tax the goings on in that station etc.
So what about Jump Bridges, Cyno Gens, Jammers, CSAAs, and all the other SOV driven items? Without getting to f***ing complicated, IGÇÖm pretty sure most of you guys can figure out how to tie those back into the system without turning 0.0 into the same mess itGÇÖs in now.
LetGÇÖs face it, CCP is nowhere near figuring out how to GÇ£fixGÇ¥ current Null Sec GÇ£SOVGÇ¥ mechanics because there is no way to fix itGǪGǪ.shut it down, put in place mechanics that already exist (stations) and with a few tweaks we could be up and running with a new and fresh Null Sec which will thrive for years to comeGǪ
AnywaysGǪGǪ.ItGÇÖs an idea. Build off it or adjust as you think will work better but the simpler the idea more apt itGÇÖs going to get implemented by CCP quicker. The folks that keep coming up with these complicated and intricate ways to GÇ£fixGÇ¥ it just stagnate the process and to be honest, I think thatGÇÖs why you do it so stfu. The above details, or some iteration of it, will give new players a chance to make it in this game and not simply be a puppet.
AnywhooGǪGǪGǪ.flame away and cry like babies about Gǣalready having NPC spaceGǥ and silly crap like that. This is what needs to happen for EVE to surviveGǪ.
Fly it like you stole it!!! (RIP TN)
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1918
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Posted - 2014.06.17 18:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
FIRST! EVE needs more Pssshhhh |
DJWiggles
Eve Radio Corporation
181
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Posted - 2014.06.17 19:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
SECOND!!!!!! Live on Eve Radio Sundays 18:00 GMT with me & friends blabbering on about Eve and stuff-áFollow me on twitter http://twitter.com/WigglesGRN, like me on facebook http://facebook.com/wigglesGRN Or check the show page http://show.gamingradio.net
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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
790
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Posted - 2014.06.17 19:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
hitting the bottle this early in the day? OP is hardcore
Also:
THIRD!!! |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2229
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Posted - 2014.06.17 20:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fourth.
Supported for great justice, great nullsec and because I've always said that the only way to fix sov is to remove it. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
33
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Posted - 2014.06.17 20:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
lol,
I support these idea's.. oh man sits back and grabs some popcorn on this.
im sure the very ones that be are foaming at the friggin mouth at your idea's OP.
but again I say well said! lol
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
573
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Posted - 2014.06.17 20:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Fourth.
Supported for great justice, great nullsec and because I've always said that the only way to fix sov is to remove it.
But that's unlikely to happen. People already cry about the announcement of destructible stations, imagine the floods when they don't have sov anymore and need to defend and actively claim it.
|
Omega Crendraven
Tackled In Belt xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
163
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Posted - 2014.06.17 21:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Remove Sov from the premises. Actually is a p good idea " REMOVE RLML remove rlml you are worst light missile, you are the missile idiot you are the missile smell. return to rubicon. to our hml cousins you may come our fitting. you may live in the hangarGǪ.ahahahaha" CCP Rise |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
439
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Posted - 2014.06.17 21:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Supported after reading the title.
Ok now that I got that out of the way I will go and read the essay.
--Edit--
Yup, sounds good, no sarcasm.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Alternative Splicing
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2014.06.17 21:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Simple ideas are the best. Power projection would still be a problem though. |
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2286
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Posted - 2014.06.17 22:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Agree, but station access should be defined by their owners.
Also, you ought to be able to build any structure anywhere in null sec - including multiple stations in a single system. It should be up to the players to remove structures - not arbitrary Sovereignty Rules.
|
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
283
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Posted - 2014.06.17 22:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
But then what will the nullbears have to cling to and uphold as their shining achievement that makes them superior to all other players, even if all they did was press F1?
What will the Renters rent?
What will the Pirates pi.... Oh wait....
+1 just because I want to watch what happens when this torch drops on the dry, stale bed of straw that is null-sec when Sov disappears overnight. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
Lord Fudo
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2014.06.17 23:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hell yeah, no sov in null would be fun to watch. Would that mean supers and titans could then be built in wormhole space? |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
731
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 00:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lord Fudo wrote:Hell yeah, no sov in null would be fun to watch. Would that mean supers and titans could then be built in wormhole space? GÇó Super Carrier Construction Upgrade Slots to be added to the Capital Station Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
1242
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Posted - 2014.06.18 00:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Remember when we had that standings bug? Remember how many people thought it was "The best bug ever!" and that CCP should "leave this one in game" because they were having so much fun?
- Remove Sov. - Remove ability to set standings.
Boom. Null sec fixed. If you're not in my alliance, you're a target. |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Umbrarum Paradisi
402
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Posted - 2014.06.18 01:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
This would be nice... especially the Capital Station idea- hell, maybe an alliance with a capital station could even lobby for a custom skin for one ship or something like that that you could only get there? That'd be fun
And sov sucks.
+1 "A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams....is built in heaven."
-Jovian Proverb-á |
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
285
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 01:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:This would be nice... especially the Capital Station idea- hell, maybe an alliance with a capital station could even lobby for a custom skin for one ship or something like that that you could only get there? That'd be fun And sov sucks. +1
If they ever finish the custom ship skins tool they showed at fanfest this will be easily accomplished. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
Auduin Samson
Do not disturb Sanctuary Pact
233
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 05:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
SIXTEENTH!
...wait, are we still going? You just lost your ship The tears will fuel my spaceship Go quit Eve again
-Bane Nucleus-á |
Red Teufel
Artificial Intelligence. The East India Co.
379
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 05:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
just removing sov alone would benefit the game. That is how bad the sov mechanics are. and for the love of god fix the pos towers so more groups can make it out on their own away from the limitations of security space. |
Anthar Thebess
516
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Posted - 2014.06.18 06:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
+1 But i think ccp will never do it. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
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Thelying dutchman
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Fatal Ascension
0
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Posted - 2014.06.18 07:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
never thought Id agree with snot but I do!
please make it so |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
737
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Posted - 2014.06.18 11:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
You look through the names of the 0.0 stations and a lot are named after Game of Thrones castles....well if CCP did something like the Alliance Capital Stations people would actually have their Castle Blacks and Winterfells etc. Worth attacking and defending etc. Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Madbuster73
V0LTA Triumvirate.
94
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Posted - 2014.06.18 11:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Love the Idea. +1 |
Aakkonen
The Phaeacian Fleet SpaceMonkey's Alliance
53
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Posted - 2014.06.19 13:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
if only eve forums would have somekinda voting mechanic, anyways Big 1+ Always hated sov mechanics. ( but still being in null alliance has its benefits)
Bring the sov down! Bad Jokes since -09.... Fly Safe! o7 |
Grunnax Aurelius
The Horny Heron's Horny Empire
286
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 19:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Supported and Bumped!!! +1 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread |
Bakuhz
The Horny Heron's Horny Empire
158
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 19:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Interesting idea!
yes please!!! http://rakah.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=%3CBakuhz
Recruiting PvP minded pilot's new pilot friendly teachers available in various timezones |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
132
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Posted - 2014.06.20 19:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
+1
, actually surprised about the general positive tone of the thread. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Maz Ngomo
4
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Posted - 2014.06.20 20:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nullsec isn't intended to be 'lawless space', that's lowsec. Nullsec is intended to be a place for groups of players to carve out their own territory and enforce their own laws and restrictions (or lack thereof depending entirely on the people in question). Sov is fine, but admittedly the mechanics are still terrible. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4279
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 20:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Here's a thought:
Kill the Sov mechanics, just like Snot said.
If we want to define something afterwards, having learned from this mess, that's another issue to be handled... LATER.
Don't let the pursuit of the perfect block the adoption of the good.
+1 Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2236
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 20:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Maz Ngomo wrote:Nullsec isn't intended to be 'lawless space', that's lowsec. Nullsec is intended to be a place for groups of players to carve out their own territory and enforce their own laws and restrictions (or lack thereof depending entirely on the people in question). Sov is fine, but admittedly the mechanics are still terrible.
I find it curious that everything I have ever read or seen or listened to regarding EVE has always explained nullsec as "lawless space" while you insist that it somehow is not.
Additionally, if lowsec is lawless then why do I get shot at by gate and station guns when I violate empire laws by shooting at someone else? |
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Maz Ngomo
4
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Posted - 2014.06.20 20:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:I find it curious that everything I have ever read or seen or listened to regarding EVE has always explained nullsec as "lawless space" while you insist that it somehow is not.
Additionally, if lowsec is lawless then why do I get shot at by gate and station guns when I violate empire laws by shooting at someone else? Perhaps I should have elaborated, my apologies.
Well of course null by default is certainly 'lawless' in terms of game mechanics since there is no CONCORD or NPC-enforced artificial rules. The sovereignty mechanics were intended to enable groups of players to carve out their own territory however, and part of owning a territory is being able to enforce their own rules in those areas (by definition creating their own laws). Take CVA Providence, for example - that, by game definition is technically 'lawless', but in reality there are strict rules (laws) enforced by CVA and her allies that are punishable by the owners of the territory.
Lowsec on the other hand can't be claimed at all, yet CONCORD and the other NPC authorities don't intervene. Therefore it's basically a lawless fringe frontier between highsec and nullsec. Gate and station funs are defending the territory surrounding the assets they are assigned to protect kind of like security guards, they aren't really a police force as such.
To be honest, I've always found the gate and station sentry mechanics to be very disjointed and illogical. I suppose this whole concept comes down to what is perceived to be intended and what game mechanics allow. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4279
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 21:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
Enforcing rules in sov amounts to one thing: being able to compel others to follow your dictates.
For those in your corp or alliance, that is fairly simple, as the tools allow you to set roles as well as invite those who pledge to follow the leaders.
For those who you do not invite, it amounts to denial of resources. They cannot dock or resupply in your stations without your approval, and you are capable of withholding this. From there, it is simply a matter of PvP, with your conveniently short supply lines giving you leverage over your opponents.
Since we are not advocating to remove PvP combat, it actually amounts to opening up station building and outpost access. Likely the ability to place stations off grid from beacon items too, in order to permit growth. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2237
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 21:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
Maz Ngomo wrote:Perhaps I should have elaborated, my apologies.
Well of course null by default is certainly 'lawless' in terms of game mechanics since there is no CONCORD or NPC-enforced artificial rules. The sovereignty mechanics were intended to enable groups of players to carve out their own territory however, and part of owning a territory is being able to enforce their own rules in those areas (by definition creating their own laws). Take CVA Providence, for example - that, by game definition is technically 'lawless', but in reality there are strict rules (laws) enforced by CVA and her allies that are punishable by the owners of the territory.
I like that you referenced CVA. That's actually a very good example of what I'm saying - they can't claim any sov or make use of the benefits that come with it and yet through their own efforts the Providence region very clearly belongs to them. If they don't mind you being there then you'll be left in peace (by them, anyway) and if they want to kick you out then they have the means at their disposal to try and do exactly that.
There's no particular reason why Grr Goons can't maintain a deathgrip on the areas of space they now control - from what little I know of them they're certainly more than organized enough for it. Other alliances that can get organized should (in theory) be able to accomplish similar results with their own space - unless they can't defend it, in which case I think we all agree they should lose it anyway. Combine that with docking/taxes/services at conquerable stations and outposts remaining the way they are now and I absolutely believe you have a recipe for a significantly more dynamic (and dangerous) nullsec.
Obviously no sov does raise the issue of supercap production but that problem can be better solved by someone who actually likes them. |
Catalytic morphisis
Rock Huggers Inc The Pears of Anguish
48
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 22:45:00 -
[34] - Quote
Excellent idea, Massive +1 from me! I might actually bother with 0.0 if this is put in place (solo/small gang roaming not counted here) |
Arla Sarain
14
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 23:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:
GÇó Alliances are no longer pinned under the weight of coalitions in order to GÇ£keep their spaceGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪ..they simply need to live in, and actively defend it for it to be theirs.
GÇó Local and regional politics would develop with leaders/war lordGÇÖs etc. coming out of the wood works to govern with limited power to hold over playersGÇÖ heads.
GÇó Back room deals can be made by the lowest level grunt each day which could drastically impact what happens throughout a constellation or regionGǪGǪstronger relationships are born.
GÇó Contracts mechanics are developed to support regional trade and local deals.
GÇó Ninja living in Null Sec could be done by anyone who wanted to take the risk alone, in Corps, Alliances by choice while others hunted them.
GÇó Grass roots market HUBs and industry in Null Sec would grow to amazing size and use all over null secGǪ.Jita size HUBs policed by Mercs etcGǪGǪGǪ. Mos Isley Space Station etcGǪ
GÇó And so many other opportunities for player driven content would come to life all around 0.0 as players were free to move where they wanted if they were willing to take the risk and develop the relationships..
I like the reasons.
Whether that's what the this change will produce is probably a much longer study. |
Tracer Viliana
Completely Legitimate Corporation
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 01:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
+1
Make it happen CCP |
Smugest Sniper
Shinigami Miners Spaceship Samurai
9
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 02:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
I see two key issues with this,
-The Blob Rules: Who ever can function under the largest gang and hell camp hardest can claim any territory they wish.
This is pretty much directly opposed to what you want for controlling space as it turns everything back to the old BoB standard or a Swarm overlordship.
-Wars of attrition kill markets in null-sec: If we want to get people out of High-sec and into the real game, there needs to be a level of stability and control for resource gathering and production supplying the engines of WAR.
Back in 09 there was a fairly dumb but accurate post by Mittani about Industrial backbones. It was more profitable for CFC to export moongoo and import ships from Jita simply because of how much money the Monopoly on Moons brings up prices.
In short, the money spent of JF's carriers, and supply chain management outweighed any effort in a local industrial platform because of the set-up time, inner cultural conflict("Kill all Rock touching Filth wizards"), and the concept of wanting every available unit of Manpower for combat over resource generation and production.
A large part of this is due to the vast amount of ISK generation possible in null space because they own and guard moderately every gateway to core systems.
When Stargate pooping comes, this might be a real option, but until then **** that noise.
To tl;dr
Doesn't change really anything save the lack of actual possibility to control and protect where you live, disallows any real diplomatic agreements outside of what already exists, and doesn't really let any growth or development of where you choose to live.
All of this coupled with the fact that you can't really 'live' in null if someone will just hell camp you out of your outpost because they too can just dock up against right in your home. |
Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor
53
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 03:13:00 -
[38] - Quote
I think the best way to put it is that if you (the individual, corp, alliance or coalition) live there, and either let other people live with you under your orders, or kick other people out, then technically that space should be yours.
I totally agree with activity in a system = ownership of the system. I also agree that things like moongoo, Super/Titan building, Cyno Arrays etc.. can all be worked out in a much easier form if the current system of Sovereignty was gone.
Activity = ownership, plain and simple
Cedric
|
Smugest Sniper
Shinigami Miners Spaceship Samurai
10
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 03:23:00 -
[39] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote: Activity = ownership, plain and simple
Bring Military and Indy to 5 you gain control of that system progressively more. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6194
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 03:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
Definitely renting out will be important... they have some of the best incentives and motivations. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
598
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 06:55:00 -
[41] - Quote
Smugest Sniper wrote: To tl;dr
Doesn't change really anything save the lack of actual possibility to control and protect where you live, disallows any real diplomatic agreements outside of what already exists, and doesn't really let any growth or development of where you choose to live.
All of this coupled with the fact that you can't really 'live' in null if someone will just hell camp you out of your outpost because they too can just dock up against right in your home.
Only partly true. It would certainly not change human's infinite capabilities of being simpleminded. However, even if you are camped into the station, you can still get away in nullified ships if you are prepared and have insta undocks. And even if you cannot properly live like the people in core 00 constellations (main areas of activity for bigger alliances), you at least have it easier to get a small foothold in 00, without the former permission of or submission to the big players. How well it goes for you from there, is up to the players, but you have at least a chance to do your own thing.
The statement about "disallows any real diplomatic agreements outside of what already exists, and doesn't really let any growth or development of where you choose to live" bases on the current mechanics, which is a little bit short sighted. If sov is removed and stations accessible for everyone, new mechanics to control access to stations/planets/moons would be introduced which suit the new situation.
Smugest Sniper wrote:Dr Cedric wrote: Activity = ownership, plain and simple
Bring Military and Indy to 5 you gain control of that system progressively more.
Have fun keeping that if you are not in the system(s) all the time. Without the current sov mechanic, you can only enforce your claimes in areas where you are actually present. Where nothing happens from your side, you don't "own" the space.
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Kusum Fawn
State Protectorate Caldari State
485
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 07:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote: The statement about "disallows any real diplomatic agreements outside of what already exists, and doesn't really let any growth or development of where you choose to live" bases on the current mechanics, which is a little bit short sighted. If sov is removed and stations accessible for everyone, new mechanics to control access to stations/planets/moons would be introduced which suit the new situation.
Assuming new mechanics to balance changes without explaining what those mechanics are is a weak argument for anything
"your argument is invalid because of these other things which are not explained but will exist and render your argument invalid" Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
1101
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 16:07:00 -
[43] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:I blogged this a year ago so I thought I would take a look at it a year later, make some tweaks to it, and vomit it back out onto the forums. 0.0 is supposed to be a sandbox, so why did CCP add SOV to it making it a slab of concrete?
CCP can you please get rid of SOV.
So letGÇÖs think about this for a few minutes. Null Sec with a clean SOV slate.GǪGǪ No more grinding structures, ping ponging timers, alarm clocking, and any other horrendous nightmares you can think of from the last 10 yearsGÇÖ experience. You can change/impact the Null Sec landscape every time you log in and not be subjected to weeks of structures, timers, camps, and blobsGǪ CCP wouldnGÇÖt be faced with trying to fix something thatGÇÖs always been GÇ£brokenGÇ¥, to make something else that can be GÇ£gamed by the fewGÇ¥ and gridlocked again like it is now. They can simply turned it offGǪGǪ..SOV all across 0.0 dropsGǪ..and the players take control over the new sandboxGǪ.
So what are some of the outcomes to doing thisGǪGǪGǪGǪSOV goes away effectively turning Null Sec back into the GÇ£Lawless SpaceGÇ¥ itGÇÖs always been advertised asGǪGǪGǪGǪ..Station and Out Post docking doors are flung wide open across all of Null Sec and 10 years of trapped assets are unlocked for thousands of current, and past, pilots to use again. Pilots are logging in by the thousands and Null Sec springs back to life.
GÇó Alliances are no longer pinned under the weight of coalitions in order to GÇ£keep their spaceGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪ..they simply need to live in, and actively defend it for it to be theirs.
GÇó Local and regional politics would develop with leaders/war lordGÇÖs etc. coming out of the wood works to govern with limited power to hold over playersGÇÖ heads.
GÇó Back room deals can be made by the lowest level grunt each day which could drastically impact what happens throughout a constellation or regionGǪGǪstronger relationships are born.
GÇó Contracts mechanics are developed to support regional trade and local deals.
GÇó Ninja living in Null Sec could be done by anyone who wanted to take the risk alone, in Corps, Alliances by choice while others hunted them.
GÇó Grass roots market HUBs and industry in Null Sec would grow to amazing size and use all over null secGǪ.Jita size HUBs policed by Mercs etcGǪGǪGǪ. Mos Isley Space Station etcGǪ
GÇó And so many other opportunities for player driven content would come to life all around 0.0 as players were free to move where they wanted if they were willing to take the risk and develop the relationships..
So no SOVGǪGǪGǪall the stations and out posts are free portedGǪGǪGǪ.now what? Where can I plant my Alliance flag? What will it be?........my thoughts a GǣAlliance Capital StationGǥGǪGǪdestructibleGǪGǪ
Alliance Capital Station - Each Alliance can launch one GÇ£Capital StationGÇ¥ (Per Region?) which is destructible. Mechanics of how itGÇÖs destructible, timers, and what drops is something CCP/Players can toy with.
Thoughts/options that CCP can build on to make it GÇ£specialGÇ¥:
GÇó GÇ£Capital StationsGÇ¥ allow for Super Carriers to dock GÇó Docking rights can be set in Capital Stations unlike the local free ported stations GÇó Super Carrier Construction Upgrade Slots to be added to the Capital Station GÇó Anchorable mods on the station, large guns, webs, etc. so gunners can use them and station can defend itself like a POS. GÇó Industry upgrades can be added, taxes collected, etc. GÇó It takes an Alliance to up keep itGǪ.they take fuel, food, dancers, janitors, cows, booze, drugs, etc to operate/maintainGǪor it goes off line.. GÇó Walking in station upgrades, Licenses granted for such things as Casinos, bars, shops etc..only available at Alliance Capital StationsGǪthe more come the more isk you make
EmbassyGÇÖs GÇô (Its already going on so why not make it official) An Alliance holding a Region with a Capital Station, can secure an GÇ£EmbassyGÇ¥ in a Free-Ported station in each of the Constellations within the Region held. The benefits of such an Embassy can be decided as this mechanics are hammered out. Maybe some sort of benefits to anyone using the station for trade, industry, or whatever which in turn allows the Alliance to tax the goings on in that station etc.
So what about Jump Bridges, Cyno Gens, Jammers, CSAAs, and all the other SOV driven items? Without getting to f***ing complicated, IGÇÖm pretty sure most of you guys can figure out how to tie those back into the system without turning 0.0 into the same mess itGÇÖs in now.
LetGÇÖs face it, CCP is nowhere near figuring out how to GÇ£fixGÇ¥ current Null Sec GÇ£SOVGÇ¥ mechanics because there is no way to fix itGǪGǪ.shut it down, put in place mechanics that already exist (stations) and with a few tweaks we could be up and running with a new and fresh Null Sec which will thrive for years to comeGǪ
AnywaysGǪGǪ.ItGÇÖs an idea. Build off it or adjust as you think will work better but the simpler the idea more apt itGÇÖs going to get implemented by CCP quicker. The folks that keep coming up with these complicated and intricate ways to GÇ£fixGÇ¥ it just stagnate the process and to be honest, I think thatGÇÖs why you do it so stfu. The above details, or some iteration of it, will give new players a chance to make it in this game and not simply be a puppet.
AnywhooGǪGǪGǪ.flame away and cry like babies about Gǣalready having NPC spaceGǥ and silly crap like that. This is what needs to happen for EVE to surviveGǪ.
Fly it like you stole it!!! (RIP TN)
same "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
Kaaeliaa
Ministry of War
550
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 17:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
OH NO! You mean people would have to defend their space instead of having battles only when they get bored of high-sec ganking on disposable alts, because of non-aggression pacts? The horror!
All snark aside, even if the idea has merit, it's not going to happen. The number of people it would **** off in the short term would probably outweigh the number of people who would be happy about it. It's not because of some vast conspiracy to protect the sov-holding coalitions at that point, just a bad business decision. |
Legion40k
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
78
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 18:10:00 -
[45] - Quote
Remove SOV, it's so freaking boring
DO IT |
beatlebutt
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 18:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
I am a nullbear I guess. I mine and rat in null. I rent. My landlords defend me. But I don't think I am better then anyone else. In my mind its easier then high sec. High sec is crowded. Most systems have nuets in them. You never know one minute to the next if they are going to gank you. In null you rat and mine only when the system in clear. Because in null all nuets want to KILL YOU. IT's not ambiguous. Every time you jump a gate, you may die. Every time you undock it could be your last. In high you have to constantly guess..as you can never be nuet free. So if anything Nullbears are more carebears then high sec carebears are. Also we are lowest form of gutter trash according to the pvp's that control it. So no, we don't think we are special. No one trusts us, no one respects us. But hey, we don't care. We make isk. lots and lots of isk. So much so we happily pay the billions and billions you charge us.
I am okay with the changes. As long as there is a way to upgrade the systems to get the green mining and ratting anomalies. If there are no upgrades then null is just a big low sec. What makes null null is the sov upgrades.
And keep in mind CCP needs isk sinks to help combat inflation. So if they remove sov I would expect fee's some other way.
I think what the OP really wants is the open docking. Because lets face it, there will still be rentals. It will be a bit more work..but we have 3 major renters, CFC N3 and PL's BOTs With no sov they still have the manpower to control vast stretches of space. So they watch the map for activity or regularly send guys around to look for pos's. And instead of defending your sov I would expect them to defend your POS or IHUB or however they implement upgrades.
Me I would expect still pay rent. Rent is after all a protection racket. Its the mafia in space. Pay them or they blow you up. |
Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 21:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
+1 "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/05/ok-now-im-betting-man.html |
Rumtin
Imperium Technologies Evictus.
81
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 08:57:00 -
[48] - Quote
There's soo many holes in this idea I don't even know where to begin.
Sov itself is not the problem, the problem with sov is the way the game mechanics work in order to maintain/own/control sov. Also, its entirely possible for null sec to become more popular and dangerous without forcing sov to drop. All null sec alliances have to do is see that opening up stations with docking fees and other station service fees CAN be just as profitable, if not even more profitable than renting so long as the people actually come to the space.
However, I doubt this will ever happen as renting space has become too mainstream and large alliances are simply too reliant on it to see any other form of income. As it was mentioned earlier though, not all space is rented. Provi alliances allow nuets to have access to their stations and its services for a fee, and throughout the years of them owning the space/stations, have made a tremendous amount of isk, and they don't rent. So it is possible for other incomes to provide alliances with the means to maintain themselves without major sov changes.
Further, if the null sec regions beyond those next to low/high sec are too devoid of populations to make this open access viable, then those regions can be rented for income. Its up to the Sov owners how they intend to rule their space, but this would serve to make null sec more popular with people, and still allow large alliances to have the necessary income to maintain themselves. |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
750
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 12:38:00 -
[49] - Quote
Rumtin wrote:There's soo many holes in this idea I don't even know where to begin.
Sov itself is not the problem, the problem with sov is the way the game mechanics work in order to maintain/own/control sov. Also, its entirely possible for null sec to become more popular and dangerous without forcing sov to drop. All null sec alliances have to do is see that opening up stations with docking fees and other station service fees CAN be just as profitable, if not even more profitable than renting so long as the people actually come to the space.
However, I doubt this will ever happen as renting space has become too mainstream and large alliances are simply too reliant on it to see any other form of income. There's so many holes in my idea you decided not to point any out, but were willing to say it could all be solved by Alliances now free-porting and charging for it.........who in their right minds gonna put there stuff in stations where it can be trapped without even the warnings of a one week SOV timer.. .
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
49
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 13:01:00 -
[50] - Quote
pretty cool idea, but i think if you have builded normal station you should be able to mantain it like now
all docking rights etc, if not than setupin a station in system would be a mistake and every one would live in pos and use only the "capital statin"
guess pandemic and N3 would roam and burn every damn stations in eve ^^ |
|
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
49
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 13:05:00 -
[51] - Quote
also here one of my ideas on sov https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4280900#post4280900 |
Black Canary Jnr
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
109
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 13:13:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP just got their sov rebalance lol |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
598
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 13:28:00 -
[53] - Quote
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:guess pandemic and N3 would roam and burn every damn stations in eve ^^
You would be on the forefront of this party. Until a couple of stations have died and both of you realize that this is not so good for 00 after all ... (maybe it even takes a couple hundred stations until the both of you come to that conclusion. )
Would definitely be an interesting sight. The current loot pi+¦atas are a mute buzz against this.
|
Rumtin
Imperium Technologies Evictus.
81
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 14:52:00 -
[54] - Quote
Very well, I was hoping I would be able to get away with having to Post this wall of text, but I guess you do deserve a reason as to why I am so against your idea. Might have to make more than one post to cover everything.
P.S. This is what you asked for, so i'm not going to give you the pleasure of a TL;DR.
Snot Shot wrote: So letGÇÖs think about this for a few minutes. Null Sec with a clean SOV slate.GǪGǪ No more grinding structures, ping ponging timers, alarm clocking, and any other horrendous nightmares you can think of from the last 10 yearsGÇÖ experience. You can change/impact the Null Sec landscape every time you log in and not be subjected to weeks of structures, timers, camps, and blobsGǪ
So what exactly you're proposing here is basically that you want to get rid of all the infrastructure that makes holding sov what it is. Ok, lets read on.
Snot Shot wrote: GÇó Alliances are no longer pinned under the weight of coalitions in order to GÇ£keep their spaceGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪ..they simply need to live in, and actively defend it for it to be theirs.
Coalitions wont go away just because Sov drops or changes hands. There will always be alliances who are banned together in order to achieve goals. There was a post about removing the ability of null sec alliances to set standings in order to break up the Blue Doughnut, which would never happen, but even IF CCP did remove that, alliances would just simply reefer to 3rd-party websites for standings.
Snot Shot wrote: GÇó Local and regional politics would develop with leaders/war lordGÇÖs etc. coming out of the wood works to govern with limited power to hold over playersGÇÖ heads.
What exactly would they hold over other players? They no longer own stations, sov, or have any say over who comes and who goes in the space. If i was living in Null sec NPC space, and someone tried to tax me, i'd tell them where to go shove it.
Snot Shot wrote: GÇó Back room deals can be made by the lowest level grunt each day which could drastically impact what happens throughout a constellation or regionGǪGǪstronger relationships are born.
Sorry to break this too you, but back room deals from grunts (of all people) don't impact s***, certainly not regions. Someone needs to be at the top of an organization with all the roles, titles, and access to have an effect on something like what was seen with Ursha-Kan, and that's someone i would hardly call a "grunt".
Snot Shot wrote: GÇó Contracts mechanics are developed to support regional trade and local deals.
This has hardly anything to do with Sov.
(Cont. in my next post.)
|
Rumtin
Imperium Technologies Evictus.
81
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 14:59:00 -
[55] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote: GÇó Ninja living in Null Sec could be done by anyone who wanted to take the risk alone, in Corps, Alliances by choice while others hunted them.
We already see this currently with NPC Null.
Snot Shot wrote: GÇó Grass roots market HUBs and industry in Null Sec would grow to amazing size and use all over null secGǪ.Jita size HUBs policed by Mercs etcGǪGǪGǪ. Mos Isley Space Station etcGǪ
It's already been proven that Null sec Industry is broken, there's no point in it until it gets re-balanced. It's more effective to simply import from empire and export too empire then build in null.
Snot Shot wrote: GÇó And so many other opportunities for player driven content would come to life all around 0.0 as players were free to move where they wanted if they were willing to take the risk and develop the relationships..
They can do that even now. Even under NBSI rules, that doesn't stop pilots from roaming in space, it doesn't stop people from travelling there or talking to the Sov owners.
Snot Shot wrote: So no SOVGǪGǪGǪall the stations and out posts are free portedGǪGǪGǪ.now what? Where can I plant my Alliance flag? What will it be?........my thoughts a GǣAlliance Capital StationGǥGǪGǪdestructibleGǪGǪ
*facepalm
Snot Shot wrote: Alliance Capital Station - Each Alliance can launch one GÇ£Capital StationGÇ¥ (Per Region?) which is destructible. Mechanics of how itGÇÖs destructible, timers, and what drops is something CCP/Players can toy with.
This is exactly hypocritical of your own proposal. Remember, you wanted to get rid of timers in the first place, now your advocating there return??
|
Rumtin
Imperium Technologies Evictus.
81
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 15:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote: Thoughts/options that CCP can build on to make it GÇ£specialGÇ¥:
GÇó GÇ£Capital StationsGÇ¥ allow for Super Carriers to dock GÇó Docking rights can be set in Capital Stations unlike the local free ported stations GÇó Super Carrier Construction Upgrade Slots to be added to the Capital Station GÇó Anchorable mods on the station, large guns, webs, etc. so gunners can use them and station can defend itself like a
Super caps allowed to dock, ok i'll go for that. However, docking rights that cant be set in the system right next door is only asking for a hostile fleet to come in with dreads,carriers of their own with supers staged in some PoS in that very same system and drop on your "Special" station to pop it. Why would anyone do this?? Super cap construction slots, ok ill go for that as well, and anchor-able guns on a station, might be a little overpowered and would mean that PoS's would serve almost no function, but w/e, i'll let that one slide.
Snot Shot wrote: POS. GÇó Industry upgrades can be added, taxes collected, etc. GÇó It takes an Alliance to up keep itGǪ.they take fuel, food, dancers, janitors, cows, booze, drugs, etc to operate/maintainGǪor it goes off line.. GÇó Walking in station upgrades, Licenses granted for such things as Casinos, bars, shops etc..only available at Alliance Capital StationsGǪthe more come the more isk you make
What your proposing here is basically the SAME EXACT THING that we already have, it's called an IHUB, and it DOESN'T REQUIRE FUEL. CCP can't get Walking In Stations right, now you want them to try and implement the same failed mechanic in PoS's???
Snot Shot wrote: EmbassyGÇÖs GÇô (Its already going on so why not make it official) An Alliance holding a Region with a Capital Station, can secure an GÇ£EmbassyGÇ¥ in a Free-Ported station in each of the Constellations within the Region held. The benefits of such an Embassy can be decided as this mechanics are hammered out. Maybe some sort of benefits to anyone using the station for trade, industry, or whatever which in turn allows the Alliance to tax the goings on in that station etc.
Ok, so whats the difference here from them owning the station and charging for station services exactly?? I mean doing that means they already take money for people doing a lot of whats listed here anyways.
Snot Shot wrote: So what about Jump Bridges, Cyno Gens, Jammers, CSAAs, and all the other SOV driven items? Without getting to f***ing complicated, IGÇÖm pretty sure most of you guys can figure out how to tie those back into the system without turning 0.0 into the same mess itGÇÖs in now.
Well there you have it, a whole list of why I disagree with your idea and think that in it's current form, it's rather s***. |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
753
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 15:54:00 -
[57] - Quote
Rumtin wrote:Very well, I was hoping I would be able to get away without having to Post this wall of text, but I guess you do deserve a reason as to why I am so against your idea. Might have to make more than one post to cover everything. P.S. This is what you asked for, so i'm not going to give you the pleasure of a TL;DR. And here I was hoping you might have something important to contribute other than the usual "it won't work because I think it won't"..... Kinda like warning everyone you have an 18" **** only to whip out a 5" knob...
Coalitions won't go away but there will be less of a need for them plain and simple. "We need to stick together because of all the structure HP that you need to grind through to take SOV"... welp, yah don't need to now.
"3rd-party websites for standings." That works well on the in game overview during engagements... anyways, not my idea.
You're Alliance would still be living in the space it can control by its size and by living there charging for standings etc. Pretty simple and all the other "what ifs" get sorted out by people using their brains.
Hold over their heads is the ability to make isk and build in the space or it gets blown up. Scrap SOV required to put up a CSSA etc. No big deal you still need an Alliance to protect them.
Back room deals and grunts could still impact ****, you're just not creative.
Alliance leadership structures don't go away ffs...
"We already see this currently with NPC Null." - Good, now you will see it all over EVE.
Industry is being balanced now and will continue to be. Doesn't mean we can't get rid of SOV now.
"They can do that even now. Even under NBSI rules, that doesn't stop pilots from roaming in space, it doesn't stop people from travelling there or talking to the Sov owners." Not sure you even live in 0.0 at this point. So they need to talk to CFC or PL/N3. Awesome......thanks for the tip...
Alliance Cap Station with timers is fine. Same as a POS etc. Thousands of SOV structures isn't..........keep up there smart guy, you got no imagination.
"Super caps allowed to dock, ok i'll go for that. However..." what now you're going on again with your opinion about why "it won't work!"......and leaving out all the reasons why it could work.
To get the benefits of the ACS you will need an Alliance to maintain it.
I gotta go but I feel like I'm wasting my time chasing your butterflies etc. I will check back later to poke another one if its worth it. .
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Rumtin
Imperium Technologies Evictus.
81
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 16:33:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ugh, sure dude.
You're clearly in denial that your idea is a joke and would only create more problems than what it solves, but whatever. I've said my peace and will leave you with this.
|
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
599
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 17:25:00 -
[59] - Quote
Well, new problems would make the 00 game at least a bit more interesting than the current stalemate with its bilgy frowst.
- Activity in systems gives you options like the current sov - If you "own" the system, you can set docking rights on stations (solves every problem with station access in your space, but leaves lots of options for out-of-alliance stations for other people) - If you "own" the system, you can set access rights to moons and planets (solves every POS/PI related issue and keeps lots of room for other out-of-your-alliance players to do stuff in other systems)
|
Strot Harn
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 23:00:00 -
[60] - Quote
+1
Anything that increases chaos and entropy in Eve is a good thing. |
|
CloudyHi Crush
Skunk Works Development
2
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 06:37:00 -
[61] - Quote
Just imagine playing a game of risk with sov. When you don't have to defend your space because you have so everyone idles. If there was no sov. People would be forced to defend or close their space.I like the idea of null having no rules. This would change the stalemate! |
Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
71
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 14:17:00 -
[62] - Quote
Yes, for Bob's sake.
And, while we are at it, remove bubbles from the game as well, or make interdiction nullifier a low-slot module with penalties similar to a warp core stab. |
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
324
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 14:31:00 -
[63] - Quote
Jade Blackwind wrote: And, while we are at it, remove the bubbles from the game as well, or make interdiction nullifier a low-slot module with penalties similar to a warp core stab.
... Whah?....
I don't.... No... Just stop... Stay on topic or GTFO. If you want to drop half-baked ideas that've been recycled for years do it in your own thread so it can be locked for redundancy like everyone else. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4279
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 14:52:00 -
[64] - Quote
An argument can be fairly made that sov could have been intended to reward effort. Specifically, the effort to take and claim space.
Please note I did not include hold space there, just take and claim it.
Sov appears to have given great leverage, and resulting stability, towards being able to hold space. It is more difficult to claim space than to defend it, as a result of the details.
Stability in a game, giving past efforts an entrenched position against future ones, seems an awkward way to promote change and dynamic play. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
71
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 15:01:00 -
[65] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:If you want to drop half-baked ideas that've been recycled for years do it in your own thread so it can be locked for redundancy like everyone else. No problem! Here: :P
|
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution
292
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 16:45:00 -
[66] - Quote
Hell yeah!
Turn all renter space to NPC, if not all of sov null. Don't Panic.
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Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
762
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 11:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Legion40k wrote:Remove SOV, it's so freaking boring
DO IT I just figure there will be so many ideas on how to "fix" something that can't really be fixed, that CCP will just end up picking something that gets gamed again by the blocs.
Just clean the slate for a year or two and see what happens. Could be just the enema the game needs, flushing out all the old bitter vets, and allowing a sort of reset to happen by living where you want and can control each day etc.
While this goes on, CCP and all the smart players can start adding small mechanics to build back a light SOV option thats not so cumbersome etc. . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Liam Inkuras
Top Belt Heroes
1180
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 14:17:00 -
[68] - Quote
YAAAAAAAAAAAAH I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Da Dom
Wii R
101
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 16:08:00 -
[69] - Quote
Kill it with fire :)(: |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3337
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 17:56:00 -
[70] - Quote
+1 Sov mechanics suck. Oh god. |
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KATAL MATU
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 18:05:00 -
[71] - Quote
OP has a great idea. I hope CCP does it. It would save them a lot of dev hours that they can use on other things. |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
214
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 18:16:00 -
[72] - Quote
+1 for days and days and days.
CCP, do it. You are dumb if you don't.
Every visit to 0.0 resulted in massive blobs, 70 jump roams finding nothing but a 50 man gate camp and swift death, pointless structure bashing, anomaly farming...............zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Null Sec is the worst part of the EVE universe.
I'll stick to faction warfare until null sec becomes the antithesis of what it is now.
....If CCP used any sense....Null Sec could be SO MUCH FUN.....alas they do not. |
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
726
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 19:39:00 -
[73] - Quote
Totally agree that removing SOV is the way forward.
EVE: Online's main selling point is that it's a giant sandbox, but there are all these arbitrary rules and constraints in nullsec... it has never made sense. It needs to go.
Let me build whatever I want, wherever I want. Then let anybody else come along and destroy it... if they can Fleet Bookmarks New Gravimetric Sites Med Clones 2.0 |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
214
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 20:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:Totally agree that removing SOV is the way forward. EVE: Online's main selling point is that it's a giant sandbox, but there are all these arbitrary rules and constraints in nullsec... it has never made sense. It needs to go. Let me build whatever I want, wherever I want. Then let anybody else come along and destroy it... if they can
100% accurate.
|
Lugia3
Intentionally Dense Easily Excited
1029
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 23:29:00 -
[75] - Quote
+1
Best idea to come along in a long time. Also, add a few more nullsec and lowsec regions. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
562
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 00:16:00 -
[76] - Quote
Let's talk fluff wise... everyone in the game are immortals, hence killing people is pointless.
Let's all have a group hug and shoot dem drones as they can't have clones! "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Kit Bradovich
Pelican. Cult of War
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 01:15:00 -
[77] - Quote
+1 also.
CCP look at the idea and make null sec fun and interesting again!!
Bump it to the top |
Erica Rotineque
Beauties and Beasts
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 01:22:00 -
[78] - Quote
This is an awesome idea, +1
CCP needs to go out on a limb, take a risk, if they want this game to survive, and this is the perfect way to do it.
However, I would have it so that player owned stations remain that way, and docking rights can be decided by the owner. |
Mazzara
Gale Force Contractors
18
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 01:40:00 -
[79] - Quote
Sounds like a great idea. +1 No matter how much you scrub, how hot of water you use,-áyou can't wash shame! |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1372
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 03:48:00 -
[80] - Quote
moons need a balance pass they should work like planets in PI do
this will stimulate conflict on an unprecedented scale, more explosions than you could count it will be glorious |
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2412
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 04:33:00 -
[81] - Quote
Speedkermit Damo wrote:Hell yeah!
Turn all renter space to NPC, if not all of sov null.
Actually a careful reading of the proposal would tell you that it would not remove Sov, but replace the current Sov mechanic with a new one. The Alliance Capital Station, so instead of dozens of TCUs and IHUBs there'd essentially be one for an entire region.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Beta Maoye
27
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 07:59:00 -
[82] - Quote
Open Jove region and put SOV into their backyard. Let them eat their cake. They will agree with you. |
TheP4ck4ge
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 10:45:00 -
[83] - Quote
+1 love the nullsec carebear tears. Fight for what's yours. |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
174
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 12:00:00 -
[84] - Quote
After this fix we'd have: High sec: 1090 Low sec: 4111 Jove: 230 W-space: 2499
How is this going to make the game better?
Edit: crap, i got trolled into a GRRRGOONS thread...
Well playerd SS. |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
775
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 12:04:00 -
[85] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:After this fix we'd have: High sec: 1090 Low sec: 4111 Jove: 230 W-space: 2499
How is this going to make the game better? What are you talking about? Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1180
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 12:47:00 -
[86] - Quote
Quote:Walking in station upgrades, Licenses granted for such things as Casinos, bars, shops etc..only available at Alliance Capital StationsGǪthe more come the more isk you make
Heh, that's the first WiS gameplay suggestion I read that doesn't revolve around space barbie clothes... Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1180
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 13:07:00 -
[87] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:+1
, actually surprised about the general positive tone of the thread.
That's just because nobody likes sov, not even the people not living in 0.0.... Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Count Vladimir Dracula
The Crimson Elixir
2
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 13:45:00 -
[88] - Quote
+1. Whether it's POS's or TCU's doesn't matter, the entire concept of structure bashing based sov mechanics is flawed. |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
174
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 13:59:00 -
[89] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:After this fix we'd have: High sec: 1090 Low sec: 4111 Jove: 230 W-space: 2499
How is this going to make the game better? What are you talking about?
Well sovless space is equally conquerable as lowsec systems which are not part of the FW space, hence one might as well save time and reclassify it as lowsec if sov is no more.
NPC null is already full of bads who cannot fight with anything else than maledictions, we'd just expand that to whole of nullsec. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4324
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 14:10:00 -
[90] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Snot Shot wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:After this fix we'd have: High sec: 1090 Low sec: 4111 Jove: 230 W-space: 2499
How is this going to make the game better? What are you talking about? Well sovless space is equally conquerable as lowsec systems which are not part of the FW space, hence one might as well save time and reclassify it as lowsec if sov is no more. NPC null is already full of bads who cannot fight with anything else than maledictions, we'd just expand that to whole of nullsec. I believe that you are assuming too much.
Yes, it is human nature to seek the path of least resistance, but you are ignoring that for the player type that wants to build on past efforts, sov null IS that easiest way to go.
To put it simply, the player types that are in NPC null will always be around, but so will the types who build and make sov null their home. If the rules surrounding sov null change, they will adapt to them. They won't simply change play styles to match your example of low sec or NPC null play, or they would have already done this by now.
If they did not take this path already, I believe it assumes to much to think they will do so after this change. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
|
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
216
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 14:39:00 -
[91] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Snot Shot wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:After this fix we'd have: High sec: 1090 Low sec: 4111 Jove: 230 W-space: 2499
How is this going to make the game better? What are you talking about? Well sovless space is equally conquerable as lowsec systems which are not part of the FW space, hence one might as well save time and reclassify it as lowsec if sov is no more. NPC null is already full of bads who cannot fight with anything else than maledictions, we'd just expand that to whole of nullsec.
Except for, you know, players build the stations, and stuff.....
You don't understand much. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
845
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 14:48:00 -
[92] - Quote
if stations are destructible and no force-fields .. then this idea could work .. system upgrades make no sense anyway really.... make things hackable and quickly destroyable would allow small groups of raiders too work well, steal, loot and destroy .. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
174
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 15:19:00 -
[93] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:Snot Shot wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:After this fix we'd have: High sec: 1090 Low sec: 4111 Jove: 230 W-space: 2499
How is this going to make the game better? What are you talking about? Well sovless space is equally conquerable as lowsec systems which are not part of the FW space, hence one might as well save time and reclassify it as lowsec if sov is no more. NPC null is already full of bads who cannot fight with anything else than maledictions, we'd just expand that to whole of nullsec. Except for, you know, players build the stations, and stuff..... You don't understand much.
You didn't read the original post, did you? All player built outposts would be flipped to NPC stations. |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
778
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 15:19:00 -
[94] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Well sovless space is equally conquerable as lowsec systems which are not part of the FW space, hence one might as well save time and reclassify it as lowsec if sov is no more.
NPC null is already full of bads who cannot fight with anything else than maledictions, we'd just expand that to whole of nullsec. Well with a statement like that, and the fact youGÇÖre in the bastion, I can only assume you havenGÇÖt been playing the game long enough to learn the difference in mechanics between Low and Null Sec space.
Your other statement about null just filling up with GÇ£badsGÇ¥ if implemented, did give me a chuckle. Fact is the majority of sov null is already populated with GÇ£badsGÇ¥ who have less skill than most NPC Malediction dwellers and canGÇÖt do anything other than shoot rats and hit F1 when stuffed into a 3,000 man station camping blobs. Current SOV mechanics allow the most incompetent of all EVE pilots to hide behind millions of structure hit points and timers if they can simply get enough incompetents together for a few weeks to overwhelm the opposition.
Just because SOV goes away it doesnGÇÖt mean you GÇ£lose your spaceGÇ¥, it just means you own what you can control/police/defend/and farm with your Corp or Alliance. NIPs, NAPs, BoTLRDs, and standings would still provide the GÇ£protectionGÇ¥ you covet. You can then focus on creative things like how/where to construct your Alliance Cap Station and what upgrades/options the Alliance wants for it along with who can use the EmbassyGÇÖs and other cool things this game could offer if it wasnGÇÖt a f*cking slab of concrete controlled by 3 or 4 people at this point.
This SOV thing reminds me of **** we use to read about in psychology class where a simple animal would be taught to press a button to get a piece of kibble and ended up dying when the kibble stopped dropping because it never learned how to forage and think for itself etc. SOV is that button and has dumbed this game down so much its f*cking ridiculous.
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
779
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 15:56:00 -
[95] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:All player built outposts would be flipped to NPC stations. Who cares if all the outposts are open to all for docking etc. You use what stations your Alliance can control while the rest you police/hot drop and possibly rent out via blue standings ( no not access standings, just "donGÇÖt shoot me standings"). Maybe having a Allaince Cap Station in the region allows you to grant bonuses to folks you set blue as renters in your region etc.
CCP may decide to make these outposts and stations destructible someday but before they do, and everyone starts just killing them all, why not open them up allowing everyone with trapped assets for years to have access and to see how the players use/integrate them into the new "SOV less" state of Null Sec.
The other thing people squeal about is "we build/paid for" that outpost!! Well in almost all cases no you didnGÇÖt, someone else from years past did so htfu.
Anyways, just remember getting rid of SOV is the request, everything else after that is on the table for discussion and tweaks but current 0.0 is so bound up by these millions of HP that it badly needs a good enema to get this game moving again. . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
174
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 16:35:00 -
[96] - Quote
Quote:Anyways, just remember getting rid of SOV is the request, everything else after that is on the table for discussion and tweaks but current 0.0 is so bound up by these millions of HP that it badly needs a good enema to get this game moving again.
I re-read the OP, you didn't state what would be the benefit of getting rid of Sov outside of subjective opinions.
Can you elaborate what the game would gain from the change? |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
781
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 17:09:00 -
[97] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:I re-read the OP, you didn't state what would be the benefit of getting rid of Sov outside of subjective opinions.
Can you elaborate what the game would gain from the change? How bout we do this, you tell us what the benefit is now for wasting thousands of hours/peoples time shooting, anchoring, blue balling, and alarm clocking for timers and IGÇÖll go into great detail as to what the game would gain for not having to do that.
Now before you get side tracked reeling off all the benefits of GÇ£owning SOVGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪ.. aka, Jump Bridges, Cyno Gens, Jammers, CSAAs, and all the other SOV driven items. Without getting to f***ing complicated, IGÇÖm pretty sure most of you guys can figure out how to tie those back into the system without turning 0.0 into the same mess itGÇÖs in nowGÇ¥. ThatGÇÖs where CCP and players can get creativeGǪGǪ . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
174
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 17:20:00 -
[98] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:I re-read the OP, you didn't state what would be the benefit of getting rid of Sov outside of subjective opinions.
Can you elaborate what the game would gain from the change? How bout we do this, you tell us what the benefit is now for wasting thousands of hours/peoples time shooting, anchoring, blue balling, and alarm clocking for timers and IGÇÖll go into great detail as to what the game would gain for not having to do that. Now before you get side tracked reeling off all the benefits of GÇ£owning SOVGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪ.. aka, Jump Bridges, Cyno Gens, Jammers, CSAAs, and all the other SOV driven items. Without getting to f***ing complicated, IGÇÖm pretty sure most of you guys can figure out how to tie those back into the system without turning 0.0 into the same mess itGÇÖs in nowGÇ¥. ThatGÇÖs where CCP and players can get creativeGǪGǪ .
Structure timers are stupid and should be nuked, I agree on that fully. Nuking the whole sov system is a tad erratic. Sometimes you need to put a sick animal down, but what if we try a less lethal remedy first?
Also I love it how you demand people to defend the status quo and at the same time cannot explain why your implementation would be best for the game.
How about it? |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4324
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 17:35:00 -
[99] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Also I love it how you demand people to defend the status quo and at the same time cannot explain why your implementation would be best for the game.
How about it? Not for nothing, but his bullet points from the OP sounded like a good list of the benefits to me...
Snot Shot wrote:... So what are some of the outcomes to doing thisGǪGǪGǪGǪSOV goes away effectively turning Null Sec back into the GÇ£Lawless SpaceGÇ¥ itGÇÖs always been advertised asGǪGǪGǪGǪ..Station and Out Post docking doors are flung wide open across all of Null Sec and 10 years of trapped assets are unlocked for thousands of current, and past, pilots to use again. Pilots are logging in by the thousands and Null Sec springs back to life.
GÇó Alliances are no longer pinned under the weight of coalitions in order to GÇ£keep their spaceGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪ..they simply need to live in, and actively defend it for it to be theirs.
GÇó Local and regional politics would develop with leaders/war lordGÇÖs etc. coming out of the wood works to govern with limited power to hold over playersGÇÖ heads.
GÇó Back room deals can be made by the lowest level grunt each day which could drastically impact what happens throughout a constellation or regionGǪGǪstronger relationships are born.
GÇó Contracts mechanics are developed to support regional trade and local deals.
GÇó Ninja living in Null Sec could be done by anyone who wanted to take the risk alone, in Corps, Alliances by choice while others hunted them.
GÇó Grass roots market HUBs and industry in Null Sec would grow to amazing size and use all over null secGǪ.Jita size HUBs policed by Mercs etcGǪGǪGǪ. Mos Isley Space Station etcGǪ
GÇó And so many other opportunities for player driven content would come to life all around 0.0 as players were free to move where they wanted if they were willing to take the risk and develop the relationships..
So no SOVGǪGǪGǪall the stations and out posts are free portedGǪGǪGǪ.now what? Where can I plant my Alliance flag? What will it be?........my thoughts a GǣAlliance Capital StationGǥGǪGǪdestructibleGǪGǪ
Alliance Capital Station - Each Alliance can launch one GÇ£Capital StationGÇ¥ (Per Region?) which is destructible. Mechanics of how itGÇÖs destructible, timers, and what drops is something CCP/Players can toy with. ...
In simple terms, I would expect increased interaction to be the primary result.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
781
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 18:02:00 -
[100] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Structure timers are stupid and should be nuked, I agree on that fully. Nuking the whole sov system is a tad erratic. Sometimes you need to put a sick animal down, but what if we try a less lethal remedy first?
Also I love it how you demand people to defend the status quo and at the same time cannot explain why your implementation would be best for the game.
How about it? Well tbh IGÇÖm pretty lazy and struggle to care about EVE in game mechanics unless IGÇÖm bombing in my HoundGǪ. Getting into the kind of jousting match youGÇÖre angling for over this topic would make people think that IGÇÖve got some sort of passion for my SOVGÇÖless Null Sec ideaGǪ ItGÇÖs an idea and, with most, people are going to see the positives and negatives but still rally for the side which benefits their own personal agendaGǪGǪGǪespecially in EVEGǪ
With that said, feel free to go back and reread some of my posts in this thread and you will find some of the reasons I think this would be GÇ£goodGÇ¥ for the gameGǪGǪ..not sure there is a GÇ£bestGÇ¥ for the game, but thatGÇÖs probably part of the bait for your set up anywaysGǪ.. .
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
|
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
784
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 18:37:00 -
[101] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: In simple terms, I would expect increased interaction to be the primary result.
That's pretty funny...........I actually wrote that as my response, hit post, and the forum ate my response so I ended up typing more..
Thanks for bumping and kicking the thread around today, its been fun! . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
LiKuei
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 22:21:00 -
[102] - Quote
+1 +1 +1 damn ....
Amazing that the players come up with real ways to make the game more interesting and CCP comes up with a major overhaul that kills it. For gods sake ... take this players suggestion to heart and do it in six weeks. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2412
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 04:14:00 -
[103] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:Snot Shot wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:After this fix we'd have: High sec: 1090 Low sec: 4111 Jove: 230 W-space: 2499
How is this going to make the game better? What are you talking about? Well sovless space is equally conquerable as lowsec systems which are not part of the FW space, hence one might as well save time and reclassify it as lowsec if sov is no more. NPC null is already full of bads who cannot fight with anything else than maledictions, we'd just expand that to whole of nullsec. I believe that you are assuming too much. Yes, it is human nature to seek the path of least resistance, but you are ignoring that for the player type that wants to build on past efforts, sov null IS that easiest way to go. To put it simply, the player types that are in NPC null will always be around, but so will the types who build and make sov null their home. If the rules surrounding sov null change, they will adapt to them. They won't simply change play styles to match your example of low sec or NPC null play, or they would have already done this by now. If they did not take this path already, I believe it assumes to much to think they will do so after this change.
Not too mention that this does not remove sov, but puts in place an alternative mechanic.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2412
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 04:15:00 -
[104] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:if stations are destructible and no force-fields .. then this idea could work .. system upgrades make no sense anyway really.... make things hackable and quickly destroyable would allow small groups of raiders too work well, steal, loot and destroy ..
Stations are NOT destructible in this suggestion, just the Alliance Capital Station. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2412
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 04:17:00 -
[105] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Phaade wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:Snot Shot wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:After this fix we'd have: High sec: 1090 Low sec: 4111 Jove: 230 W-space: 2499
How is this going to make the game better? What are you talking about? Well sovless space is equally conquerable as lowsec systems which are not part of the FW space, hence one might as well save time and reclassify it as lowsec if sov is no more. NPC null is already full of bads who cannot fight with anything else than maledictions, we'd just expand that to whole of nullsec. Except for, you know, players build the stations, and stuff..... You don't understand much. You didn't read the original post, did you? All player built outposts would be flipped to NPC stations.
Not necessarily, they'd become free ports. It wasn't clear if the alliance claiming the region could collect taxes, etc. They could not limit docking rights, but they might have some influence/control over these free ports. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2412
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 04:30:00 -
[106] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:
GÇó Alliances are no longer pinned under the weight of coalitions in order to GÇ£keep their spaceGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪ..they simply need to live in, and actively defend it for it to be theirs.
Why do you think this?
Why couldn't N3/PL and the CFC just run around and drop Alliance Capital Stations in their various regions, and then continue on their merry way? Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
afkboss
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 04:49:00 -
[107] - Quote
If you want free docking rights and lawless space go to lowsec.
Nothing will stop coalitions from forming, its just a thing people do, they do it in the real world and they do it in EVE. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6252
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 05:49:00 -
[108] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Snot Shot wrote:
GÇó Alliances are no longer pinned under the weight of coalitions in order to GÇ£keep their spaceGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪ..they simply need to live in, and actively defend it for it to be theirs.
Why do you think this? Why couldn't N3/PL and the CFC just run around and drop Alliance Capital Stations in their various regions, and then continue on their merry way? Probably we'd need an alt alliance for each Alliance Capital Station which would mean more work setting all the right blue standings... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2412
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 06:03:00 -
[109] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Snot Shot wrote:
GÇó Alliances are no longer pinned under the weight of coalitions in order to GÇ£keep their spaceGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪ..they simply need to live in, and actively defend it for it to be theirs.
Why do you think this? Why couldn't N3/PL and the CFC just run around and drop Alliance Capital Stations in their various regions, and then continue on their merry way? Probably we'd need an alt alliance for each Alliance Capital Station which would mean more work setting all the right blue standings...
That is not that much work, and with the amounts of isk involved people will under take that work.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6257
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 07:00:00 -
[110] - Quote
Yes, that was exactly what I meant. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
|
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4324
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 13:30:00 -
[111] - Quote
In my opinion, by making the existing Outposts free ports, you remove a key piece of leverage that had making alliances so easy to defend. 'Easy' is strictly relative here, in the context presented of the current way things are as compared to after an idea such as this.
Currently we have alliances needing only a small fraction of their existing forces to man gate camps at key choke points, alongside a minimal network of observers to populate the intel channels. This artificially duplicates historical situations where a small force could hold back a larger one, so long as they controlled the bottleneck that gave them the advantage.
Now, as in many ways fits more realistically for space, these bottlenecks will be the resource gathering points and Outposts themselves. Your enemy can resupply more conveniently, and therefore fight you on a more level playing field.
Would sov still be worth the trouble of getting? I think it would be, since it would still have benefits.
But the game-stopping leverage that made alliances into entrenched space-holders, that is contrary to game play best interest in my view.
Remember, to take the space from one of these entrenched positions, you need far more than an equal force, or that advantage will stop you. You need an overwhelming blob. I think this places the bar just a little too high for good gameplay. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Jur Tissant
Unreal Darkness
95
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 17:09:00 -
[112] - Quote
I like the idea of sovereignty allowing groups to officially lay claim to a part of the world, but in its current state it all boils down to a handful of massive alliances taking a bunch of systems they don't even use.
So this wouldn't be the worst way to resolve this problem. Massive alliances could still be massive and own a lot of space, they just have to be able to enforce that ownership. Even renting would still be possible, but it would require active effort to be a tenant. Ultimately, it means that people own what they fight for and defend, which sounds very EVE to me. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2691
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 18:58:00 -
[113] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:I blogged this a year ago so I thought I would take a look at it a year later, make some tweaks to it, and vomit it back out onto the forums. 0.0 is supposed to be a sandbox, so why did CCP add SOV to it making it a slab of concrete?
CCP can you please get rid of SOV.
So letGÇÖs think about this for a few minutes. Null Sec with a clean SOV slate.GǪGǪ No more grinding structures, ping ponging timers, alarm clocking, and any other horrendous nightmares you can think of from the last 10 yearsGÇÖ experience. You can change/impact the Null Sec landscape every time you log in and not be subjected to weeks of structures, timers, camps, and blobsGǪ CCP wouldnGÇÖt be faced with trying to fix something thatGÇÖs always been GÇ£brokenGÇ¥, to make something else that can be GÇ£gamed by the fewGÇ¥ and gridlocked again like it is now. They can simply turned it offGǪGǪ..SOV all across 0.0 dropsGǪ..and the players take control over the new sandboxGǪ.
So what are some of the outcomes to doing thisGǪGǪGǪGǪSOV goes away effectively turning Null Sec back into the GÇ£Lawless SpaceGÇ¥ itGÇÖs always been advertised asGǪGǪGǪGǪ..Station and Out Post docking doors are flung wide open across all of Null Sec and 10 years of trapped assets are unlocked for thousands of current, and past, pilots to use again. Pilots are logging in by the thousands and Null Sec springs back to life.
GÇó Alliances are no longer pinned under the weight of coalitions in order to GÇ£keep their spaceGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪ..they simply need to live in, and actively defend it for it to be theirs.
GÇó Local and regional politics would develop with leaders/war lordGÇÖs etc. coming out of the wood works to govern with limited power to hold over playersGÇÖ heads.
GÇó Back room deals can be made by the lowest level grunt each day which could drastically impact what happens throughout a constellation or regionGǪGǪstronger relationships are born.
GÇó Contracts mechanics are developed to support regional trade and local deals.
GÇó Ninja living in Null Sec could be done by anyone who wanted to take the risk alone, in Corps, Alliances by choice while others hunted them.
GÇó Grass roots market HUBs and industry in Null Sec would grow to amazing size and use all over null secGǪ.Jita size HUBs policed by Mercs etcGǪGǪGǪ. Mos Isley Space Station etcGǪ
GÇó And so many other opportunities for player driven content would come to life all around 0.0 as players were free to move where they wanted if they were willing to take the risk and develop the relationships..
So no SOVGǪGǪGǪall the stations and out posts are free portedGǪGǪGǪ.now what? Where can I plant my Alliance flag? What will it be?........my thoughts a GǣAlliance Capital StationGǥGǪGǪdestructibleGǪGǪ
Alliance Capital Station - Each Alliance can launch one GÇ£Capital StationGÇ¥ (Per Region?) which is destructible. Mechanics of how itGÇÖs destructible, timers, and what drops is something CCP/Players can toy with.
Thoughts/options that CCP can build on to make it GÇ£specialGÇ¥:
GÇó GÇ£Capital StationsGÇ¥ allow for Super Carriers to dock GÇó Docking rights can be set in Capital Stations unlike the local free ported stations GÇó Super Carrier Construction Upgrade Slots to be added to the Capital Station GÇó Anchorable mods on the station, large guns, webs, etc. so gunners can use them and station can defend itself like a POS. GÇó Industry upgrades can be added, taxes collected, etc. GÇó It takes an Alliance to up keep itGǪ.they take fuel, food, dancers, janitors, cows, booze, drugs, etc to operate/maintainGǪor it goes off line.. GÇó Walking in station upgrades, Licenses granted for such things as Casinos, bars, shops etc..only available at Alliance Capital StationsGǪthe more come the more isk you make
EmbassyGÇÖs GÇô (Its already going on so why not make it official) An Alliance holding a Region with a Capital Station, can secure an GÇ£EmbassyGÇ¥ in a Free-Ported station in each of the Constellations within the Region held. The benefits of such an Embassy can be decided as this mechanics are hammered out. Maybe some sort of benefits to anyone using the station for trade, industry, or whatever which in turn allows the Alliance to tax the goings on in that station etc.
So what about Jump Bridges, Cyno Gens, Jammers, CSAAs, and all the other SOV driven items? Without getting to f***ing complicated, IGÇÖm pretty sure most of you guys can figure out how to tie those back into the system without turning 0.0 into the same mess itGÇÖs in now.
LetGÇÖs face it, CCP is nowhere near figuring out how to GÇ£fixGÇ¥ current Null Sec GÇ£SOVGÇ¥ mechanics because there is no way to fix itGǪGǪ.shut it down, put in place mechanics that already exist (stations) and with a few tweaks we could be up and running with a new and fresh Null Sec which will thrive for years to comeGǪ
AnywaysGǪGǪ.ItGÇÖs an idea. Build off it or adjust as you think will work better but the simpler the idea more apt itGÇÖs going to get implemented by CCP quicker. The folks that keep coming up with these complicated and intricate ways to GÇ£fixGÇ¥ it just stagnate the process and to be honest, I think thatGÇÖs why you do it so stfu. The above details, or some iteration of it, will give new players a chance to make it in this game and not simply be a puppet.
AnywhooGǪGǪGǪ.flame away and cry like babies about Gǣalready having NPC spaceGǥ and silly crap like that. This is what needs to happen for EVE to surviveGǪ.
Fly it like you stole it!!! (RIP TN)
Snot. I've never been a fan of your topics. Having nothing better to do than watching Eve patch or reading the forums and finding this GEM, I'll say this:
Give each NPC empire their own indestructible Super Capital station in the low-sec regions across New Eden... and I'll support this topic like I wrote it. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers Rim Worlds Protectorate
143
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 19:30:00 -
[114] - Quote
Fully Support this Idea... tho I doubt CCP will ever pay it attention. They are Very happy in bed with SOV holders just look at how many Devs have come out of them. |
Fourteen Maken
VipeRs Pit
136
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 22:27:00 -
[115] - Quote
It was always inevitable that the power would end up concentrated in the hands of a few, it was just never going to end any other way it's simple game theory. When all your assets are floating in space at the mercy of n+1 nobody wants to be 'n' everyone wants to be 'n+1' so blobs become coalitions of blobs, then coalitions of coalitions become power blocs and eventually the powerblocs became the blue doughnut.
If they want more players to leave empire space then they have to do something about the powerblocs, something other than making them even more powerful and giving them even more control... this might be a good start. getting rid of moon goo and other sources of passive income like botting would also be high on the list. |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
787
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 00:47:00 -
[116] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:This does NOT remove sov, it is a new sov mechanic when you get right down to it. Instead of having dozens of TCUs and IHUBs you have one big fat one. Whether this is good or not I don't know yet. Teckos - Thanks for the posts. And when you get right down to it the idea doesn't remove SOV, it removes what no one in this game has ever enjoyed about it. The down side to getting rid of all the HP, timers, and other ****, is that people who "own" space will need to actually use it, defend it, and this scares most current Null Sec players since they have never really had to do that.
This idea, or a form of it, would allow players new and dynamic game choices. There are hundreds of unused stations and systems all over Null Sec which I think we can all agree is pretty silly. They're being rented out because the players that want to use them can't kill the SOV structures. Let them take the chance to "Ninja" live in these unused locations if they want while PL tries to hot drop, hunt, or negotiate standings with them not to be like Mercs do.
If the Region has an Alliance Cap Station and they can negotiate special "bonus" standings with them that will allow upgrades to be anchored or they can simply ninja live without the standings if they don't want to be under the "thumb" of any Alliance and are willing to take the risk living there. Maybe the level of "bonus" standings do things like expand the docking radius of the Regions station and outposts to those with them adding a layer of protection.
You asked how Alliances would no longer be pinned under the weight of Coalitions in order to keep their space. Most Alliances fear losing their space simply because of the numbers, Super caps, and ridiculous amount of time and effort it takes to obtain space in Null Sec. Take that away and I bet many of them wouldn't put up with being the political hostages/puppets they currently are. If they want to commit and drop a Alliance Cap Station in a region then maybe they'd stick to a Coalition or simply risk it alone. Either way if they're strong enough they can simply stay in the region they're in now and farm/defend it as they normally do. If they can't, move to some where they can.
Many corps would probably decide to go nomadic and just negotiate the best deal with an Alliance that held Alliance Cap Station in region they want to reside in. That's my take on a few things that would shake out from this.
Yes, I think part of the equation would be that a Alliance can only drop 1 Alliance Cap Station. They need to pick the most strategic Region and system and commit to it. Obviously the current size of many Alliances would be too big for pilots to use just one Region so they would need to develop new "Alt" Alliances and CEOs to drop Alliance Cap Stations in more Regions and this would add stress to the power dynamic and diplomatic scene that EVE needs so much. New Alliance leaders could actually matter a little more than they do these days and when directors decide to press "the button" on a Alliance Cap Station it could be a little more interesting than just mopping up SOV structures with Super fleets. Anyways, this stacks the house of cards a lot higher which creates content.
Again, I realize the idea isn't perfect but tbh some of the other ideas floating around out there which takes 50 pages of proximity, indexes, cost modifiers, and "sov structure tenacity" discussions that make me want to ******* puke. WTF, I thought this was a video game people were supposed to enjoy and not need a special EVE alarm clock, ice for blue balls, and masters in statistics, in order to be a slave for $15/month......or more.
I could be completely wrong and missing something obvious but I think its a good start/idea? Got some pretty good feedback, and if anyone has some ideas how to tweak it to work better feel free to pipe up.
Just a side note though to those who don't know me. I'll be the first to say that there are not to many people in Null Sec that like me and probably less at CCP for having to deal with me on CAOD for the last 5 years. This thread could creep up to 500 likes and 200 pages and CCP wouldn't acknowledge it existed even if their game depended on it. You won't see Manny or any other well known Null Sec heroes comment in this thread because this idea can't be gamed as much as the ideas they're promoting so they wont lend it their name.
If you want to see a drastic change in Null Sec where it becomes the sandbox we've always been told it was, you're going to need to get behind a thread like this bumping it and promoting it aggressively to see any change which might turn Null Sec back into something worth the time and effort we all want to put back into this game. . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
789
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 13:18:00 -
[117] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Give each NPC empire their own indestructible Super Capital station in the low-sec regions across New Eden... and I'll support this topic like I wrote it. That could be interesting.......to see a cyno alt from every SC heavy Alliance in local waitng for a SC to bounce of station when they cyno in.... . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4326
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 13:30:00 -
[118] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:... You asked how Alliances would no longer be pinned under the weight of Coalitions in order to keep their space. Most Alliances fear losing their space simply because of the numbers, Super caps, and ridiculous amount of time and effort it takes to obtain space in Null Sec. Take that away and I bet many of them wouldn't put up with being the political hostages/puppets they currently are. If they want to commit and drop a Alliance Cap Station in a region then maybe they'd stick to a Coalition or simply risk it alone. Either way if they're strong enough they can simply stay in the region they're in now and farm/defend it as they normally do. If they can't, move to some where they can.
Many corps would probably decide to go nomadic and just negotiate the best deal with an Alliance that held Alliance Cap Station in region they want to reside in. That's my take on a few things that would shake out from this.
... I see a dynamic emerging from this, where some alliances take in member corporations to keep them from raiding their space.
They would sue for peace, in different words, as the space holding alliance would be rid of marauders, and hopes that the marauding corp would see benefit with membership over raiding. (Look, you can PvE here, or we can even help you raid these other guys, win / win...)
I believe this scales much more than the current system, especially for smaller groups who may have issues handling a gate camp before every attempt at play. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
789
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 14:31:00 -
[119] - Quote
I think one of the coolest things about the Alliance Capital Station is the fact that these could become historical strongholds of Alliances talked about for years to come. Just like the Game of Thrones castles these stations would be the Alliance brand, symbol, and heart to truly be proud of.
When you anchor it you have to name it and the name can never be changed unless the Alliance disbands and ownership drops with someone else taking control of it or destroying it.
Anyways, seeing a Castle Sphere or one called The Stables in the history books of EVE with the stories written about them would be pretty cool. Up keep and upgrades cost could provide as significant isk sink needed just like current sov bills do and the egg itself could cost so much that it might take a little while to actually see many of these out there in null sec. . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Heimdallofasgard
Ardent Industrial Choke Point
520
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 15:02:00 -
[120] - Quote
Snot shot, always been a fan of your posting and this doesn't disappoint.
Null sec needs MAJOR changes of some kind to stop this current stagnation, if only to save the lives of those people who go and check the daily sov map and are continually bashing their heads against a desk because nothing relevant has happened for months.
The idea needs fleshing out but so far it's the best of an okay bunch, but anything, any changes at all right now would be beneficial for generating content in null sec.
|
|
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
846
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 15:13:00 -
[121] - Quote
alliance capital station ... perhaps a case of adding X-large control towers .. designed specifically too house docked capital ships .. added modular slots . with only carriers being the base dockable capitals
-dreadnoughts - supercarriers - Titans - Jump freighters - freighters
with maintenance costs due too the ships massive size/crew etc... aswell as the towers crew/size Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
KaTie CassidY
Krem Mining
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 23:29:00 -
[122] - Quote
This is the best forum post about SOV. CCP make it happen. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4326
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 13:35:00 -
[123] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:alliance capital station ... perhaps a case of adding X-large control towers .. designed specifically too house docked capital ships .. added modular slots . with only carriers being the base dockable capitals
-dreadnoughts - supercarriers - Titans - Jump freighters - freighters
with maintenance costs due too the ships massive size/crew etc... aswell as the towers crew/size You can dock your cap ships... but only in a destructible station....
That would be interesting, as well as possibly dangerous.
I like it. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
794
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 22:58:00 -
[124] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Harvey James wrote:alliance capital station ... perhaps a case of adding X-large control towers .. designed specifically too house docked capital ships .. added modular slots . with only carriers being the base dockable capitals
-dreadnoughts - supercarriers - Titans - Jump freighters - freighters
with maintenance costs due too the ships massive size/crew etc... aswell as the towers crew/size You can dock your cap ships... but only in a destructible station.... That would be interesting, as well as possibly dangerous. I like it. It would be dangerous but tbh no Alliance leader would allow thier SC or Titan pilots to dock up and log off. Docking option would only be worth it for the ease of refueling/fitting/insurance/clone upgrades and then getting out to a pos. If a ACS was ever lost with SC ot Titans in it the Alliance would laugh at the pilots and kick them for being stupid. .
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3985
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 23:39:00 -
[125] - Quote
Occam's razor: The best answers tend to be the simplest.
Not sure if the proposal is sound, but it is at the very least different than the status quo. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2415
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 05:46:00 -
[126] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:This does NOT remove sov, it is a new sov mechanic when you get right down to it. Instead of having dozens of TCUs and IHUBs you have one big fat one. Whether this is good or not I don't know yet. Teckos - Thanks for the posts. And when you get right down to it the idea doesn't remove SOV, it removes what no one in this game has ever enjoyed about it. The down side to getting rid of all the HP, timers, and other ****, is that people who "own" space will need to actually use it, defend it, and this scares most current Null Sec players since they have never really had to do that. [/snip]
Hey, don't get me wrong, the sov grind is boring and I'm not a fan. So the loss of that is a Good ThingGäó.
Quote:You asked how Alliances would no longer be pinned under the weight of Coalitions in order to keep their space. Most Alliances fear losing their space simply because of the numbers, Super caps, and ridiculous amount of time and effort it takes to obtain space in Null Sec. Take that away and I bet many of them wouldn't put up with being the political hostages/puppets they currently are. If they want to commit and drop a Alliance Cap Station in a region then maybe they'd stick to a Coalition or simply risk it alone. Either way if they're strong enough they can simply stay in the region they're in now and farm/defend it as they normally do. If they can't, move to some where they can.
Many corps would probably decide to go nomadic and just negotiate the best deal with an Alliance that held Alliance Cap Station in region they want to reside in. That's my take on a few things that would shake out from this.
Yes, I think part of the equation would be that a Alliance can only drop 1 Alliance Cap Station. They need to pick the most strategic Region and system and commit to it. Obviously the current size of many Alliances would be too big for pilots to use just one Region so they would need to develop new "Alt" Alliances and CEOs to drop Alliance Cap Stations in more Regions and this would add stress to the power dynamic and diplomatic scene that EVE needs so much. New Alliance leaders could actually matter a little more than they do these days and when directors decide to press "the button" on a Alliance Cap Station it could be a little more interesting than just mopping up SOV structures with Super fleets. Anyways, this stacks the house of cards a lot higher which creates content.
Again, I realize the idea isn't perfect but tbh some of the other ideas floating around out there which takes 50 pages of proximity, indexes, cost modifiers, and "sov structure tenacity" discussions that make me want to ******* puke. WTF, I thought this was a video game people were supposed to enjoy and not need a special EVE alarm clock, ice for blue balls, and masters in statistics, in order to be a slave for $15/month......or more.
I could be completely wrong and missing something obvious but I think its a good start/idea? Got some pretty good feedback, and if anyone has some ideas how to tweak it to work better feel free to pipe up.
Like I indicated, not sure I like the idea...kind of schizophrenic about it. Sometimes I think, "Yeah awesome, things would be in considerable flux, an invader could move into the region easily with free ports...could be great."
Then I think, "Man Goons have a good system in place to just have most CFC member alliances drop an Alliance Capital Station in their region and keep chugging right along." Of course, things wouldn't be quite as daunting in terms of attacking the CFC since instead of hundreds of TCUs and IHUBs you'd have a handful.
So I thought I'd ask the question, see what your answer is and get some discussion going. Manny's thread has good discussion and I figured the more discussion the better.
Edit: BTW, not slamming Goons either with the above. My point is that the Goons have a good network of people and they don't mind helping their allies figure **** out. I guess my concern is...could we be setting the stage to turn null sec into a collection of CFC like organizations? Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Arcelian
Metentis
81
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 12:01:00 -
[127] - Quote
Me gusta. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
94
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 12:17:00 -
[128] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:I blogged this a year ago so I thought I would take a look at it a year later, make some tweaks to it, and vomit it back out onto the forums. 0.0 is supposed to be a sandbox, so why did CCP add SOV to it making it a slab of concrete?
Because huge battles have to be fought for something. And what SOV does is it forces (or tempts) you to have some assets which can be locked and seized by your enemy, and which you can't simply throw into your trunk and run away (well, in fact it allow for it atm, would be great if such thing would be made more hard to pull). So it's serves as content generator. The problem is its mechanics are very much flawed in so many ways.
And for totally free and outlaw space you already have NPC nulls and wormholes. They are exaclty look like what you were trying to describe. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
94
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 12:27:00 -
[129] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote: You asked how Alliances would no longer be pinned under the weight of Coalitions in order to keep their space. Most Alliances fear losing their space simply because of the numbers, Super caps, and ridiculous amount of time and effort it takes to obtain space in Null Sec. Take that away and I bet many of them wouldn't put up with being the political hostages/puppets they currently are. If they want to commit and drop a Alliance Cap Station in a region then maybe they'd stick to a Coalition or simply risk it alone. Either way if they're strong enough they can simply stay in the region they're in now and farm/defend it as they normally do. If they can't, move to some where they can.
This is actually what drives policy in Eve and in real world - competition for resources to the death. Remove this and you'll get nullsec version of FW, where meaningless, kiddish fights lasts days and weeks without any reason, and mostly without any good planing and consideration. I like what nullsec resembles now - it's like a model of real world politics and power blocks, this is what adds flavor to the game world, make it differ from other projects.
And for those who don't like it there are always wormhole and NPC null spaces. What's wrong with them, actually? Why you should destroy such very distinguishing part of the game world if they can give you all you want?
I don't think there is nothing wrong with Sov. The mechanic is outdated and flawed, many words were typed on this regard. But there is no need to remove it, it needs to be fixed and rebalanced, asap. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
846
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 21:31:00 -
[130] - Quote
the problem with the mere concept of SOV is that its about controlling people . .taxing them and using them as a resource ..
it doesn't really apply too 0.0 in its current format ... so 2 options are available - add people as a resource in 0.0 (capsuleers don't count) there more like soldiers/partners in crime - or remove SOV .. maybe add a system of chiefdom's or something
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
|
Adunh Slavy
1563
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 22:57:00 -
[131] - Quote
Smugest Sniper wrote:I see two key issues with this,
-The Blob Rules: Who ever can function under the largest gang and hell camp hardest can claim any territory they wish.
And as soon as they move their blob back home, they don't control it any more. Sooner or later they'd be so spread out, trying to control everything, that they'd loose it all. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
798
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 01:18:00 -
[132] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Snot Shot wrote:I blogged this a year ago so I thought I would take a look at it a year later, make some tweaks to it, and vomit it back out onto the forums. 0.0 is supposed to be a sandbox, so why did CCP add SOV to it making it a slab of concrete?
Because huge battles have to be fought for something. And what SOV does is it forces (or tempts) you to have some assets which can be locked and seized by your enemy, and which you can't simply throw into your trunk and run away (well, in fact it allow for it atm, would be great if such thing would be made more hard to pull). So it's serves as content generator. The problem is its mechanics are very much flawed in so many ways. And for totally free and outlaw space you already have NPC nulls and wormholes. They are exaclty look like what you were trying to describe. I see what you are trying to say but with the three cycle timers to the stations etc. you can actually get your stuff out with little problem. Flip side of it is the timer creates "the blob" to form like what CFC did to Nulli in 0-W for a week where The Martini ordered his monkeys to camp the station so they could "Dead Zone" it, and Nulli not only evac'ed most of their stuff before the station flipped, but they got it back a month later so risking your assets under current SOV mechanics isn't much of a risk unless your on vacation.
Not sure that the driver of "content" and fighting over something should be to save the **** in your hanger. I think it should be to defend the space your living in and that should be enough tbh. If you can't then you should move to another place you can. Maybe that's why NPC and WH space works so well and SOV Null Sec is a slab of concrete. Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
798
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 01:54:00 -
[133] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:This is actually what drives policy in Eve and in real world - competition for resources to the death. Remove this and you'll get nullsec version of FW, where meaningless, kiddish fights lasts days and weeks without any reason, and mostly without any good planing and consideration. I like what nullsec resembles now - it's like a model of real world politics and power blocks, this is what adds flavor to the game world, make it differ from other projects.
And for those who don't like it there are always wormhole and NPC null spaces. What's wrong with them, actually? Why you should destroy such very distinguishing part of the game world if they can give you all you want?
I don't think there is nothing wrong with Sov. The mechanic is outdated and flawed, many words were typed on this regard. But there is no need to remove it, it needs to be fixed and rebalanced, asap. I'm not seeing how removing the need to grind through millions of structure HP and weeks of timers correlates to the "competition for the resources to the death" your describing. If a force moves to your space to take it why cant the competition for your resources be decided directly on the field of battle down to the last ship of sorts? Kinda like the way it would be in "the real world" if you want to go there.
If you remove the HP and timers then you get a fight to the death, not some kiddish fights that last days and weeks, you get toe to toe brawls and the development of fighting forces that can actually defend their space and know how to fight. Instead todays SOV mechanics have bread an incredibly large number of incompetent Alliances which have relied solely on millions of HP, timers, and 10 other Alliances to show up to defend their space by blobbing the opponent.
You mentioned defending something at all cost, well I agree, that's why I think the Alliance Capital Station (ACS) could be the reason a Alliance could rally around to defend their space. I agree that simply getting rid of the SOV HP and Timers is only half the solution because you need something measurable and tangible to defend so that's where the ACS comes into play. If you cant defend it then you shouldn't be there.
Holding, taking, defending space should be fluid and dynamic, not a boring and utterly horrific. . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
798
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 02:26:00 -
[134] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Like I indicated, not sure I like the idea...kind of schizophrenic about it. Sometimes I think, "Yeah awesome, things would be in considerable flux, an invader could move into the region easily with free ports...could be great."
Then I think, "Man Goons have a good system in place to just have most CFC member alliances drop an Alliance Capital Station in their region and keep chugging right along." Of course, things wouldn't be quite as daunting in terms of attacking the CFC since instead of hundreds of TCUs and IHUBs you'd have a handful.
So I thought I'd ask the question, see what your answer is and get some discussion going. Manny's thread has good discussion and I figured the more discussion the better.
My point is that the Goons have a good network of people and they don't mind helping their allies figure **** out. I guess my concern is...could we be setting the stage to turn null sec into a collection of CFC like organizations? I think dropping ACS's in Region after Region if the CFC wants to do it would be fine. If they have the isk to do it and the man power to defend it then god bless. The exposure to that tactic is that the space surrounding it and its stations are accessible to anyone and so the Alliance "owning" the Region actually needs to farm/police/and defend the space to get the maximum use out of it or anyone can farm their fields while they are logged off for weeks playing Tanks or Dota and other **** that these AFK Alliances do with all this empty space they control behind locked and abandoned stations, millions of HP, and weeks of timers.
While you aren't playing EVE others could be and they could be making isk because you're to lazy to log in and form a defense fleet, BLOPs fleet, or hot drop of any kind.
I'll post some of my ideas that I had while discussing options in Mannys thread so you can see where I think this could go in relation to what it would take to control a region with a ACS and the associated commitments:
But where is my Alliance name on the EVE map!!! Alliance Capital Stations (ACS) - Each Alliance can launch only one GÇ£Capital StationGÇ¥. When you anchor the ACS you have to name it and the name can never be changed unless Alliance is disbanded (ownership drops) or itGÇÖs destroyed and a new one put up. I see these as the GÇ£Castle BlacksGÇ¥ or PLGÇÖs GÇ£The SphereGÇ¥ stronghold of EVE driving the narrative and actual history for the future books and stories of EVE to come.
Obviously the current size of some Alliances could be too big for pilots to use just one Region or they want to GÇ£ownGÇ¥ two or more Regions. Welp theyGÇÖd need to develop new Alliances and CEOs to drop Alliance Cap Stations in more Regions and this would add stress to the power dynamic and diplomatic scene that EVE needs so much. New Alliance leaders would actually matter a lot more than they do these days and when directors decide to press the "button" on an Alliance Cap Station it could be a little more interesting than just mopping up SOV structures with Super fleets. Anyways, this stacks the house of cards a lot higher which creates content.
It takes an Alliance to up keep itGǪ.they take fuel, ammo, food, dancers, janitors, cows, booze, drugs, etc. to operate/maintainGǪor it goes off line. It takes the ACS Construction Skill book, ACS Station Management Skill Book, BPO, and construction costs which could rival that of what it currently costs to build a Titan. ACS Upgrade Mod Construction Skill Books and BPOs, ACS Regional Embassy Upgrade Mod Construction Skill Books and BPOs, Upgrade Mod Construction costs, and the cost to up keep the ACS would provide the significant isk sinks and industrial activity needed, just like current sov bills do. It might take a little while to actually see many of these out there in null sec but talk about an Alliance goal to be achieved and the pride pilots would have once they got one up.
ACS Regional Embassy Station Upgrade Mods could be fitted to provide bonuses to all open stations in your Region selected as EmbassyGÇÖs and POSGÇÖs anchored in the Region for specific things which would draw players to your Region because others donGÇÖt have that Mod fitted to their ACS. Bonuses are based on your standings with the ACS owner. Your ACS has a SC construction Upgrade fitted? Well guess where all the SC builders could headed with their CSAAs and POSGÇÖsGǪ. Maybe you can only fit 4 on your ACS so your Region could be pretty well known for select bonuses.
EmbassyGÇÖs GÇô (Its already going on so why not make it official) An Alliance holding a Region with a ACS, can secure an GÇ£EmbassyGÇ¥ in a Regional station or outpost in each of the Constellations within the Region held. The additional benefits aside from what the ACS supplies an Embassy can be decided as this mechanics are hammered out. Maybe some sort of benefits to anyone using the station for trade, industry, or whatever which in turn allows the Alliance to tax the goings on in that station etc.
The ACS is destructible. Mechanics of how itGÇÖs destructible, timersGǪ..yes I said GÇ£timersGÇ¥, and what drops is something CCP/Players can toy with. If weGÇÖre going to have timers we should probably have them on **** that matters like POSGÇÖs and these things. These could be your B-R situations of the future. Hire PL to attack of defend one of these things.
If the Region has an Alliance Cap Station, new comers to the area could negotiate special "SOV" standings with the owner which would allow them to anchor specific system upgrades the ACS doesnGÇÖt provide or they can simply ninja live without the standings and upgrades if they don't want to be under the rental "thumb" of any Alliance and are willing to take the risk living there. Maybe the levels of GÇ£SOVGÇ¥ standings do things like expand the docking radius of the Regions open stations and outposts to those with them adding a layer of protection.
BTW - Updated OP Title based on our discussion Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Xing Sh'an
Coalition for Terran Unification
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 00:39:00 -
[135] - Quote
As soon as any mechanism be it physical or digital on nature, becomes too complex, it loses the ability to adapt to an ever changing environment. For EVE that environment is the player base, when people get bored or annoyed with the overly complicated game mechanics they start to play less and less. Please free null sec and give the entire EVE player base a chance to see where the real game is played! |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2415
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 06:01:00 -
[136] - Quote
[Snipped to save space, links refer back the posts in questions....]
I pretty much agree. I like the idea of people having to use and defend their space. People using their space have another name, "targets". And people going after such targets also become targets as well. So the idea of getting people out of stations, and doing stuff to draw in hostiles and in turn provide something for a "defense fleet" to do is all good.
Just not sure changing sov can do it all. After all, Manny's thread is about power projection and how it enervates Eve. I think there is some truth to that.
At the same time having dozens if not hundreds of TCUs, IHUBs and stations to grind through may very well also be part of the problem.
Not to mention the fact that doing stuff in null is not all that appealing. The current patch/update goes some ways towards addressing that, but will it go far enough? TBH, IDK. Seems like a multi-pronged approach is needed here. Make sov less of a huge freaking monster task, address the issue of certain ships bouncing around the known galaxy obliterating everything other than a similar fleet, and make doing stuff in null worth while.
From your OP:
Quote:GÇó Grass roots market HUBs and industry in Null Sec would grow to amazing size and use all over null secGǪ.Jita size HUBs policed by Mercs etcGǪGǪGǪ. Mos Isley Space Station etcGǪ
Can you go into why you think this might result? After all, one thing your change is intending to bring about is greater uncertainty to null. But most business people don't like uncertainty.
BTW, love the discussions, lets keep it civil and constructing please (which it has been so far, I'd just like CCP to watch this thread and read it and maybe...seriously consider some of the ideas brought up here). Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4329
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 13:22:00 -
[137] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Snot Shot wrote:GÇó Grass roots market HUBs and industry in Null Sec would grow to amazing size and use all over null secGǪ.Jita size HUBs policed by Mercs etcGǪGǪGǪ. Mos Isley Space Station etcGǪ Can you go into why you think this might result? After all, one thing your change is intending to bring about is greater uncertainty to null. But most business people don't like uncertainty. BTW, love the discussions, lets keep it civil and constructing please (which it has been so far, I'd just like CCP to watch this thread and read it and maybe...seriously consider some of the ideas brought up here). I can think of one way.
An income can be made off of taxes, in this case.
An alliance needs to maintain access to a central point trading station, police it to keep customers feeling safe enough to show up, and have it's location make the taxes a practical alternative to other hubs.
Like Las Vegas in the otherwise inhospitable desert, people will go to the oasis of trading safety that they can manage to round trip in a single session... as opposed to the often multi-day trips needed to reach hubs like Jita. (For those not in freight and logistics, pilots often want limited purchases they can either fly directly or pack in a simple hauler, and be home the same session they left in)
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
223
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 15:14:00 -
[138] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Snot Shot wrote: You asked how Alliances would no longer be pinned under the weight of Coalitions in order to keep their space. Most Alliances fear losing their space simply because of the numbers, Super caps, and ridiculous amount of time and effort it takes to obtain space in Null Sec. Take that away and I bet many of them wouldn't put up with being the political hostages/puppets they currently are. If they want to commit and drop a Alliance Cap Station in a region then maybe they'd stick to a Coalition or simply risk it alone. Either way if they're strong enough they can simply stay in the region they're in now and farm/defend it as they normally do. If they can't, move to some where they can.
This is actually what drives policy in Eve and in real world - competition for resources to the death. Remove this and you'll get nullsec version of FW, where meaningless, kiddish fights lasts days and weeks without any reason, and mostly without any good planing and consideration. I like what nullsec resembles now - it's like a model of real world politics and power blocks, this is what adds flavor to the game world, make it differ from other projects. And for those who don't like it there are always wormhole and NPC null spaces. What's wrong with them, actually? Why you should destroy such very distinguishing part of the game world if they can give you all you want? I don't think there is nothing wrong with Sov. The mechanic is outdated and flawed, many words were typed on this regard. But there is no need to remove it, it needs to be fixed and rebalanced, asap.
What is this nonsense?
1) Because it ******* sucks.
2) It reflects nothing in the real world. I'm pretty sure a city doesn't just go into "reinforce mode" and become invulnerable after a couple buildings have been destroyed.
3) Small forces in the real world (like spec ops guys) are capable of impacting a nation / battlefield just as much as a large conventional force. This is not the case in Eve.
4) No, there is a complete lack of competition for resources because small forces can not impact the massive coalitions. So, carebears simply join the coalition and pay ISK for access to said resources. Which is ****. These guys arguably face less risk than hi sec miners.
5) FW fights are probably more important than the crap that happens in null sec most of the time.... which lately has been nothing. Your lack of knowledge regarding FW tactics is, well, hilarious. A lot of fights and campaigns well thought out. Some are not. Just because they are fast paced does not make them "kiddish."
Everything about Sov other than sovereignty per se is ****. |
Anna Toftdal
Anna Productions.
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 17:49:00 -
[139] - Quote
tey will win all my "lost" accounts since dominion or however it was called , the stupidest patch of new eden off all. yeah folks even worst as the station walk patch.
+1 op |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
803
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 20:51:00 -
[140] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:From your OP: Quote:GÇó Grass roots market HUBs and industry in Null Sec would grow to amazing size and use all over null secGǪ.Jita size HUBs policed by Mercs etcGǪGǪGǪ. Mos Isley Space Station etcGǪ Can you go into why you think this might result? After all, one thing your change is intending to bring about is greater uncertainty to null. But most business people don't like uncertainty. If stations are open to anyone who wants to dock and, assuming jump drives don't get "MannyGÇÖd", then you would have traders jumping goods out to these stations to sell from Empire, Low Sec, and other Allainces next door to the one thats there. You would have players, corps, Alliances who are ninja living out there where they can, selling/manufacturing stuff they get or mine out in the space they find to use.
Most stations donGÇÖt have anything of worth for sale because itGÇÖs not the designated Alliance/Corp station for the Alliance/Corps holding that Region. So there are hundreds of stations out there collecting space dust. Open them up and you will not only see Empire Traders and even 0.0 manufactures spreading there goods around, but you will see the Alts of many players in the Alliance holding the region bringing stuff out to sell at these stations if its beneficial and their Alliance m8's donGÇÖt know etc.
Big Alliances typically have a group of people who GÇ£protect their turfGÇ¥ and will bully players that try to sell items that they make most of their isk on. The groups are very GÇ£clickyGÇ¥ and donGÇÖt allow anyone to get into them as they feed off the players that are their GÇ£friendsGÇ¥ especially in times of war. Well it would be tough for them to control the Regional market their Alliance m8GÇÖs depend on if there were a few other stations out there selling their strategic goods through alts of the players they wonGÇÖt let sell in their main station etc.
The other side of that is you could end up with trade wars going on where Alts from one CFC Alliance trys selling goods in a station close to another CFC Allainces trade hub and gets caught sparkign conflict etc.
Opening up the stations is one thing, developing the area with new Mission Agents, Cosmos Complexes, and other isk making opportunities that will draw players in is the other half of the equation.
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
|
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
812
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 13:43:00 -
[141] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Ray Kyonhe wrote:Snot Shot wrote: You asked how Alliances would no longer be pinned under the weight of Coalitions in order to keep their space. Most Alliances fear losing their space simply because of the numbers, Super caps, and ridiculous amount of time and effort it takes to obtain space in Null Sec. Take that away and I bet many of them wouldn't put up with being the political hostages/puppets they currently are. If they want to commit and drop a Alliance Cap Station in a region then maybe they'd stick to a Coalition or simply risk it alone. Either way if they're strong enough they can simply stay in the region they're in now and farm/defend it as they normally do. If they can't, move to some where they can.
This is actually what drives policy in Eve and in real world - competition for resources to the death. Remove this and you'll get nullsec version of FW, where meaningless, kiddish fights lasts days and weeks without any reason, and mostly without any good planing and consideration. I like what nullsec resembles now - it's like a model of real world politics and power blocks, this is what adds flavor to the game world, make it differ from other projects. And for those who don't like it there are always wormhole and NPC null spaces. What's wrong with them, actually? Why you should destroy such very distinguishing part of the game world if they can give you all you want? I don't think there is nothing wrong with Sov. The mechanic is outdated and flawed, many words were typed on this regard. But there is no need to remove it, it needs to be fixed and rebalanced, asap. What is this nonsense? 1) Because it ******* sucks. 2) It reflects nothing in the real world. I'm pretty sure a city doesn't just go into "reinforce mode" and become invulnerable after a couple buildings have been destroyed. 3) Small forces in the real world (like spec ops guys) are capable of impacting a nation / battlefield just as much as a large conventional force. This is not the case in Eve. 4) No, there is a complete lack of competition for resources because small forces can not impact the massive coalitions. So, carebears simply join the coalition and pay ISK for access to said resources. Which is ****. These guys arguably face less risk than hi sec miners. 5) FW fights are probably more important than the crap that happens in null sec most of the time.... which lately has been nothing. Your lack of knowledge regarding FW tactics is, well, hilarious. A lot of fights and campaigns well thought out. Some are not. Just because they are fast paced does not make them "kiddish." Everything about Sov other than sovereignty per se is ****. +1 Nice description. . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Benar Ellecon
Card games on MOTORCYCLES Smug Delinquents
42
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 17:53:00 -
[142] - Quote
CCP Fozzie you reading [i]this thread[/]?
I saw you replied o the "Changes to SOV..." thread, but not this one?
I would like to think you are watching, so what is your response to this very interesting idea?
I definitely like the idea of the Capital Station...awesome idea! I can see it in all its grandeur like a castle floating in the blackness of space just waiting for the siege to come!
Fly with your hair on FIRE! |
Kinis Deren
StarHunt Mordus Angels
433
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 20:17:00 -
[143] - Quote
+1 strongly supported.
Come on CCP, do it! |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
110
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 21:38:00 -
[144] - Quote
Phaade wrote: 1) Because it ******* sucks.
Well, life sucks horribly. And one of the most hyped feature of Eve is that it sooo like a real life world.
Phaade wrote: 2) It reflects nothing in the real world. I'm pretty sure a city doesn't just go into "reinforce mode" and become invulnerable after a couple buildings have been destroyed.
When did you watch TV last time, like, in 1945? How many global wars you have seen after that one? Current world "sucks" horribly, from this point of view. Some arabian or africans unceasing brawlings on the outskirts of civilization, several serious crises happened when it seemed to almost ready to snap anytime - and thats about all. The real world is boring and relatively stable place devided by several powerblocks who don't engage each other directly but use some proxy petty nations, some clowns and maniacs from failed barely civilized states to make all the dirty work - just like it happens in Eve atm.
Phaade wrote: 3) Small forces in the real world (like spec ops guys) are capable of impacting a nation / battlefield just as much as a large conventional force. This is not the case in Eve.
Do you know why full plated knights ceased to exist at some point? And even in times they ruled the battlefield they never did it alone? Because it's much more effective to bring 5000 peasants with crossbows and longbows and pikes on the battlefield, as single arrow from crossbow or pike used right will end carreer of the knight. Anyone can get more than enough peasants, and if you lose 10k of them, you'll replenish them right away. This approach won't work for knights, so - needs much more training and equipment costs you a fortune. I thought Goons demonstatred how this work to Eve's playerbase pretty well. Shurely, peasanats will be more effective if supported by group of knights, that group alone won't win any serious battle aside from rare lucky occurences. Special forces don't win wars, they facilitate main operations by destroying infrastracture and disrupting logistics, by delivering crippling strikes behind the enemy lines - this shurely helps but won't win a war alone. I don't know why you mentioned it, as I don't argue that some space for smaller group should exist. I argue the necessity of removing sovereignty to make this space, like OP demands.
Phaade wrote: 4) No, there is a complete lack of competition for resources because small forces can not impact the massive coalitions. So, carebears simply join the coalition and pay ISK for access to said resources. Which is ****. These guys arguably face less risk than hi sec miners.
Yea, there was no single historical precedent of such situation in the whole lifespan of humanity[/sarcasmoff] Like there wasn't some particular Empire, which is effectively conquered most of the known (to them) world and crumbled eventually under its enourmous weight of vanity and corruption freeing some space for your ancestors, simple barbarians then (assuming you are a white european person, that is)
Phaade wrote: 5) FW fights are probably more important than the crap that happens in null sec most of the time.... which lately has been nothing. Your lack of knowledge regarding FW tactics is, well, hilarious. A lot of fights and campaigns well thought out. Some are not. Just because they are fast paced does not make them "kiddish."
I called them kiddish not just because of poor organisation of events. The problem about FW is it's actually about nothing. Total zero, it's just an sandbox in sandbox, meaning a playground for "kids" (don't take it personlly, I mean those only starting their way in PvP) without any serious consequences, wihtout any investments. One canno't simply go to nulls and claim a SOV. Renting helps a lot and still you often need to set some logistics and may be some POSes. And of course risk to lose some of this if something changes. Well, I'm shure that was designed this way with this goal in mind - to allow place for easy and open for all PvP, to attract those PvP-shy players with good LP rewards and temp them taste a little of other type of content. But thats why it about nothing - you drop from militia, and aside of standing losses (which most time even not an issue as using alts or FW universally recomended) you lose nothing. You fight for nothing, too - those system wide indexes is of no interest to general FW combatants, and their impact not so significant; and it's limited to FW systems only, there are other lowsecs to get away from it easly. Most of FW combatants care about LPs or about good fights, not about some strategy. Well, most of nullsec combatants too. But those actually can easly lost their space, and many mills of investments, at least. They have some real incentive to protect this particular place. And in case of leader it even more true - FW leaders don't have any incentive to fight aside from fight itself at all (lets forget about RP element here, it's neglectable anyway). Nullsec SOV leaders risk huge amount of investments and past effort made to get their space. They fight for real estate, for measurable wealth. And where some real estate and wealth cut in, there is policy born. And as real workd policy it most of the time full of boring and sordid stuff, but that what makes nulls unlike any other space in game. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
816
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 05:07:00 -
[145] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:And in case of leaders it's even more true - FW leaders don't have any incentive to fight aside from fight itself at all (lets forget about RP element here, it's neglectable anyway). Nullsec SOV leaders risk huge amount of investments and past efforts made to get their space. They fight for real estate, for measurable wealth. And where some real estate and wealth cut in, there is a policy born. And as real world policy it most of the time full of boring and sordid stuff, but that what makes nulls unlike any other space in game. I'd venture a guess that not too many people were drawn to this game because the heard about the diplomacy and boring stuff that "makes nulls unlike any other space in game". I think most of us play this game for all the other reasons that exist in the game other than that.
At the end of the day current SOV mechanics blow. They need to change drastically and even under the suggestion I make "diplomacy" would still thrive in EVE 0.0 and tbh would probably be more dynamic and many more "decision makers" involved since the long arm of Coalition leaders wouldn't be able to reach any way near as far as they can now. Local politics, and Regional politics would thrive. .
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Dani Lizardov
Doughboys Overload Everything
30
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 07:50:00 -
[146] - Quote
There is a problem in the sand box. CCP
I am playing for more then 4 years and I can remember when the login screen was showing 50-60k players online. Now I see 20k some times 30k.
There is a problem with the sand box! This problem is that in you sandbox CCP some players have build there sand castles and you can say they reached the end game. Those people have nothing to do. Those people started to move to other games already.
CCP wake up! Do not let Eve Online die, because you are too afraid to touch something in the sand box. CCP for the last 2 years you were on rescue mode. Since incarnia you did nothing but trying to "rescue" the game with small changes/fixes and re-balancing. You did only one good thing, that was low sec fix. Two years! That is a long time to wait for something new in this game.
CCP it is time to change the rules! Its time to shake that sand box, and create new challenges. CCP do not let eve online die, please.
It's a time for real Expansion CCP!
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Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
111
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 08:16:00 -
[147] - Quote
Dani Lizardov wrote:There is a problem in the sand box. CCP I am playing for more then 4 years and I can remember when the login screen was showing 50-60k players online.
I see 50k all the time at evening, and on holidays. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Dani Lizardov
Doughboys Overload Everything
30
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 11:27:00 -
[148] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Dani Lizardov wrote:There is a problem in the sand box. CCP I am playing for more then 4 years and I can remember when the login screen was showing 50-60k players online.
I see 50k all the time at evening, and on holidays.
I do not know where are you looking, or what glasses are you using... Check here: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility In the last year the server has not reached 40k. Looks like server is most visited from 16:00 to 22:00 (6 hours) the rest of the day is under 30k.
|
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
817
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 20:37:00 -
[149] - Quote
We've also been having some decent discussions on the Podsode podcast Sat and last night under Episode #224 and #225 ofthe attached: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qtzGIdsEOT7kMcvXA2Jtw
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2415
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 22:59:00 -
[150] - Quote
Dani Lizardov wrote:Ray Kyonhe wrote:Dani Lizardov wrote:There is a problem in the sand box. CCP I am playing for more then 4 years and I can remember when the login screen was showing 50-60k players online.
I see 50k all the time at evening, and on holidays. I do not know where are you looking, or what glasses are you using... Check here: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility In the last year the server has not reached 40k. Looks like server is most visited from 16:00 to 22:00 (6 hours) the rest of the day is under 30k.
In looking at the data, it appears to be somewhat rare to go over 40,000 for regular periods. Look at the weekly average average for all time.
The idea of seeing 50-60k regularly way back in the golden years is likely biased recall. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
|
Alternative Splicing
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 23:27:00 -
[151] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Nullsec SOV leaders risk huge amount of investments and past efforts made to get their space.
Change the tense on that, and you might just be correct. They currently risk nothing, which is understandable, as there is nothing to gain.
Sov nullsec people should look up to FW pilots; most of them actually know a thing or two about PvP and having fun. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
112
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 08:26:00 -
[152] - Quote
Alternative Splicing wrote:Ray Kyonhe wrote:Nullsec SOV leaders risk huge amount of investments and past efforts made to get their space. Change the tense on that, and you might just be correct. They currently risk nothing, which is understandable, as there is nothing to gain. I'm talking about basic concept. I agree that something must be done about current SOV mechanivs, but no need to remove it completely.
Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Lannius Platoinnes
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 09:08:00 -
[153] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote: Hello. I play a game and give too much importance to some facts about it. Here is a list of opinions that I wrote to express my deep involvement in a bunch of options with no worth outside my own preference and EXTREMELY well researched opinion.
1. CCP should listen to this first opinion because I think that this will be the love of players everywhere and they will surely flood the servers.
2. This is my second opinion about something extremely specific because I think based on my experience with developing and maintaining a game is surely better than of people that worked on such childish project like EvE.
3. My third opinion will explain that, again, my fantasy videogame in which I strongly believe in to be possible to create is hindered by exactly this opinion that the evil CCP is clearly ignoring.
4. When I typed my fourth opinion I thought of the world and my intellectual erection for pseudo-politics rose, that's why I am telling everybody about the socio-political and economical implications of my ideas because I AM SO SURE that my opinions can not be wrong.
5. I must express again in my fifth opinion that I can FORSEE the future and that I will know that ECONOMICALLY THIS WILL BE SO AWESOME and that THIS WILL NEVER GO WRONG.
6. In my sixth opinion I just realized that, in fact I do have a "period" button on my keyboard so I decided to press it more. Again, people will treat my opinion with more respect................................................................
7. In my 7th opinion, I HAVE NO CLUE what new mechanics can improve the game so I will just demand them to be created because it is not my job for that. CCP should "develop" something. I mean, Christ, give an ideas-man some space will you?
8. I am going to ask for EVERYTHING to be developed, like RIGHT NOW because, in my 8th opinion, i think that CCP should really get it together and FIX EVERYTHING, ADD EVERYTHING AND CREATE GOD. Just to be sure, I will repeat this in my next 3 opinions.
9. FIX EVERYTHING, ADD EVERYTHING AND CREATE GOD
10. FIX EVERYTHING, ADD EVERYTHING AND CREATE GOD
11. FIX EVERYTHING, ADD EVERYTHING AND CREATE GOD
12. Now for my 12th opinion I will reassure the readers that would like to point out that I just threw a bunch of words on a blog without any knowledge besides of my 2 inch e-peen and Tier 23 Capital Ship and tell everybody that SO WHAT IF WE CHANGE EVERYTHING AND LOSE A BUNCH OF THINGS?????????? I AM SO SURE THIS WILL WORK STOP WHINING LIKE ME.
I would like to conclude and tell all the haters to bunk off my back okay? I mean, clearly my PERFECTLY RESEARCHED AND AUGMENTED OPINION IS FLAWLESS YOU ARE A NOOB HAHAH I DON'T EVEN CARE YOUR GAME WILL BE DEAD ANYWAYS............................................... I SURE TOLD THEM
*begins to cry in proudness while typing the last statement*
F-F-Fly it like you s-s-stole it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..................................
*weeps uncontrollably while hitting the post button*
Aaaaaand scene! Awesome, everybody a round of applause for Snot Shot. An extremely painful post to read. Keep in mind to like and subscribe to him on twitter, add his thread to your signature and name your firstborn after him.
THIS IS THE HERO EVE TRULY DESERVES.
In all seriousness, I thought EvE had a bit more mature player base. Disappointed.
|
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
819
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Posted - 2014.07.31 14:10:00 -
[154] - Quote
Lannius Platoinnes wrote:Aaaaaand scene! Awesome, everybody a round of applause for Snot Shot. An extremely painful post to read. Keep in mind to like and subscribe to him on twitter, add his thread to your signature and name your firstborn after him.
THIS IS THE HERO EVE TRULY DESERVES.
In all seriousness, I thought EvE had a bit more mature player base. Disappointed.
Lannius GÇô First, I want to thank you for taking the time out of your busy posting efforts in threads like GÇ£Post Three Words Forum GameGÇ¥, GÇ£Jungian Personality TestGÇ¥, and GÇ£What is the avatar above you thinkingGÇ¥ to focus your attention to only my thread in F&ID......even though your post was a poor showing of **** posting skills I appreciate the bumpGǪ..
After such a lengthy and creative response, could you exert a little more effort and drop us your idea which could work to solve the current Null Sec SOV issue? With you having joined EVEGǪGǪGǪ.say 16 Days ago, you obviously have the experience to provide us with some great ideas?
AnyhooGǪ.. CCP deleting SOV structures (TCUs & SBUs), Timers, and Docking rights I donGÇÖt see as being much effort. Adding as GÇ£special stationGÇ¥ to the game I donGÇÖt see as much effort as the code already exists for stations already, they would just need to build off of what they already have. Adding things like guns, webs, etc. already exist in the POS code so it could probably be added to the new station code to get things started.
The Regional bonuses that the ACS could supply I donGÇÖt think would be much of a stretch since CCP employs a lot of smart people who know about the game code and mechanics that drive EVE and therefore I would have faith that they can take the ball to the hoop on this and do a pretty good job. It could even be as simple as you can only build IHUBs in Alliance Capital Stations and these IHUBs only work in the Region they were built. The Alliance owning the Region could then sell these to Pilots, Corps, or Alliances that want to use systems in their space.
Who knows, maybe thatGÇÖs giving the ACS owning Alliance too much power but again, Pilots, Corps, or Alliances that want to ninja live in that Region donGÇÖt need it. They can do the cost benefits and decide if the ACS Alliance wants too much isk for it along with the monthly rental fee and standings fee, and if they just break even without any of it, take the risk in not doing so. Again, not being held under the thumb of the Alliance GÇ£holdingGÇ¥ the Region.
Now, I know you probably got pretty excited over one part of my response which related to the age of your toonGǪ.....so feel free to simply point us in the direction of your mains post where you provid your own idea on SOV so we can take a peek? Is it hidden in MannyGÇÖs thread or has it already been flushed to the back of this forum as most bad ideas are?..... .
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Lannius Platoinnes
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 14:47:00 -
[155] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:Lannius Platoinnes wrote:Aaaaaand scene! Awesome, everybody a round of applause for Snot Shot. An extremely painful post to read. Keep in mind to like and subscribe to him on twitter, add his thread to your signature and name your firstborn after him.
THIS IS THE HERO EVE TRULY DESERVES.
In all seriousness, I thought EvE had a bit more mature player base. Disappointed. Lannius GÇô First, I want to thank you for taking the time out of your busy posting efforts in threads like GÇ£Post Three Words Forum GameGÇ¥, GÇ£Jungian Personality TestGÇ¥, and GÇ£What is the avatar above you thinkingGÇ¥ to focus your attention to only my thread in F&ID......even though your post was a poor showing of **** posting skills I appreciate the bumpGǪ.. After such a lengthy and creative response, could you exert a little more effort and drop us your idea which could work to solve the current Null Sec SOV issue? With you having joined EVEGǪGǪ GǪ.say 16 Days ago, you obviously have the experience to provide us with some great ideas? AnyhooGǪ.. CCP deleting SOV structures (TCUs & SBUs), Timers, and Docking rights I donGÇÖt see as being much effort. Adding as GÇ£special stationGÇ¥ to the game I donGÇÖt see as much effort as the code already exists for stations already, they would just need to build off of what they already have. Adding things like guns, webs, etc. already exist in the POS code so it could probably be added to the new station code to get things started. The Regional bonuses that the ACS could supply I donGÇÖt think would be much of a stretch since CCP employs a lot of smart people who know about the game code and mechanics that drive EVE and therefore I would have faith that they can take the ball to the hoop on this and do a pretty good job. It could even be as simple as you can only build IHUBs in Alliance Capital Stations and these IHUBs only work in the Region they were built. The Alliance owning the Region could then sell these to Pilots, Corps, or Alliances that want to use systems in their space. Who knows, maybe thatGÇÖs giving the ACS owning Alliance too much power but again, Pilots, Corps, or Alliances that want to ninja live in that Region donGÇÖt need it. They can do the cost benefits and decide if the ACS Alliance wants too much isk for it along with the monthly rental fee and standings fee, and if they just break even without any of it, take the risk in not doing so. Again, not being held under the thumb of the Alliance GÇ£holdingGÇ¥ the Region. Now, I know you probably got pretty excited over one part of my response which related to the age of your toonGǪ.....so feel free to simply point us in the direction of your mains post where you provid your own idea on SOV so we can take a peek? Is it hidden in MannyGÇÖs thread or has it already been flushed to the back of this forum as most bad ideas are?..... .
The moment you started checking my other posts was the moment you missed the point. |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
819
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 14:56:00 -
[156] - Quote
Lannius Platoinnes wrote:The moment you started checking my other posts was the moment you missed the point. Checking to see if a person responding has a history which might lend them credibility..........yeah, I guess I missed the point...
I was thinking of reading your mess again but I thought just bumping the thread would be a better use of my time... . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
819
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 14:57:00 -
[157] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Alternative Splicing wrote:Ray Kyonhe wrote:Nullsec SOV leaders risk huge amount of investments and past efforts made to get their space. Change the tense on that, and you might just be correct. They currently risk nothing, which is understandable, as there is nothing to gain. I'm talking about basic concept. I agree that something must be done about current SOV mechanics, but no need to remove it completely. Ray - The problem I see with the SOV changes everyone else is suggesting is that itGÇÖs simply changing out one "hamster wheel" for another one. Trying to force Alliance into having to stay in their space and run on a hamster wheel in order to keep the lights on and the isk flowing seems a little silly to me.... People are going to farm and defend it anyways or they wouldnGÇÖt be there or log in. Why do we need to install a requirement as to how much they need to farm it to keep it?
"Ohhh!! If you leave your space to go to war then it will power down and someone else will take it!!"......... ThatGÇÖs even more reason for the CFC Alliances to stick together so they can keep 1 alt as their PvP toon during Coalition Ops, and another toon at home keeping the hamster wheel going.
There are some posts above relating to RL comparisons so I might as well make one here. If the majority, or even a portion of, a city or towns population were to go on the road to attack some distant land would that not allow wandering groups access to what was left exposed behind? Could the wandering group not simply climb the fence into the gardens and harvest all the crops? Could they not just go into houses and live in them as if they were their own? Could they not just roam the streets mugging the population left behind?
I'm just asking why there needs to be all these FW hamster wheels put in place that you need to run on in order to keep your space or all these HPs and Timers you'd need to fight through while no one is around to defend it. IsnGÇÖt living there, farming it, defending it, and such enough? Or am I missing the point of these hamster wheels everyone wants? . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1242
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 15:22:00 -
[158] - Quote
Consider.
F
Would you like to know more? |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4332
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 15:52:00 -
[159] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: I may be missing a detail or two, so I would ask for clarification.
POS's, those moon-orbiting, fuel-drinking, and shield wearing places where ships hide, but can still be seen if a pilot is present. (As opposed to being hidden while docked in an outpost)
Are these to permit free access to all OR Are these capable of being planted by anyone in any system OR Are these now indestructible, but the one per moon limit no longer exists, etc.
I see a problem if the timers vanish from these, if a vested interest in claiming the space for your own station still exists. (Attackers just figure out when the owners are asleep / offline and use this to overwhelm it)
I noticed Feyd's solution as well as Snot's mention these, but not much elaboration. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
821
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 16:39:00 -
[160] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: I may be missing a detail or two, so I would ask for clarification. POS's, Are these to permit free access to all - No, owner sets standings as always. (SS)OR Are these capable of being planted by anyone in any system - Yes (SS)OR Are these now indestructible, but the one per moon limit no longer exists, etc. - No, the mecahincs around their destruction remain the same. Ref, timers, destroy etc. (SS). Feyd - Good read. When you have a second examine what could be done game mechanics wise which would GÇ£stressGÇ¥ the out of game community that has developed within the CFC at this point. Currently they rely on each other to survive and will simply strive to make sure they have a work around established for every conceivable threat after any of the SOV changes other people are promoting.
Remove Jump bridges = CFC Alliances put Jump Clones in each main station of each CFC Alliance Region.
Remove Titan Bridges = CFC Alliances put Jump Clones in each main station of each CFC Alliance Region.
Remove Jump Drives = CFC Alliances put Jump Clones in each main station of each CFC Alliance Region and supports the Existing local CFC Alliances Capital fleet with massive SubCap blob.
32,000 members of CFC Alliances insure that they can always have enough PvP toons ready to Jump clone to assist a member Alliance while they have an alt at home to keep SOV up.
But they canGÇÖt defend everywhere! Well if that were the case we would see people attacking their space now but if you notice, diplomacy has solved all that. If many of the suggestions went through that people are talking about the only place that would burn would be the East. The RUS would get back together and the CFC would move East to destroy NCDot/Nulli while PL made a deal to save their own ass.
If TCUs, SBUs, Timers, and Docking rights go away you would actually see small pvp corps and Alliances move out to 0.0 stations and start using the space around it. A lot of these smaller Corps and Alliances are so good at PvP and harassment tactics that many of the CFC Alliances hiding behind the walls of HP, Timers, and Docking rights would crumble under the weight of this constant assault. The classic response of GÇ£adapt or dieGÇ¥ would actually apply to Null Sec. The Alliances that held space in Null Sec would actually have to be good at the game to hold space. .
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
|
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1242
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 20:56:00 -
[161] - Quote
I go from a base of thinking that sov v2.0 should harness individual greed and pursuit of ISK, in ways that are directly tied to driving ongoing conflict at the alliance level.
From that perspective I expanded on your 'capital station' concept with a 'home system' one, that gets buffs to ISK generation tied to it for alliance members (and not renters) through additional alliance system captures...
The thinking was that if you start with a big nerf bat to all null ISK generation, and then allow recovery of that ISK generation by individual alliances buffing their 'home' (and inner) systems through conquest, you then have inbuilt conflict between all alliances, and hopefully the death of 'coalitions' over time as individual greed trumps 'diplomacy'.
F
Would you like to know more? |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
547
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 08:36:00 -
[162] - Quote
I've only managed to get 5 or 6 pages into this but there seems to be some misunderstanding as to where the line of 'Game Mechanics' ends and 'Risk averse players' begins. Removing Sov doesn't make people want to fight more - the solution suggested would just lead to more people sitting docked up in stations.
Any solution needs to force people to spend more time in space - and making stations more accessible to everyone is not a good way to do that |
Krakil Frostborn
Sleeper Slumber Party Test Alliance Please Ignore
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 08:38:00 -
[163] - Quote
+1 |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4333
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 13:24:00 -
[164] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:I've only managed to get 5 or 6 pages into this but there seems to be some misunderstanding as to where the line of 'Game Mechanics' ends and 'Risk averse players' begins. Removing Sov doesn't make people want to fight more - the solution suggested would just lead to more people sitting docked up in stations.
Any solution needs to force people to spend more time in space - and making stations more accessible to everyone is not a good way to do that See, I think you misunderstand a point on this.
Absolutely nothing will MAKE people want to fight more. The risk averse will always have an excuse to avoid this. So we can safely say that won't change.
What it will invite, is more opportunity, not blocked by numbingly effective leverage that stops attempts to reach desired targets before they see any light at the end of the tunnel.
Sure, a gate camp is great for defense. But this is a game we are playing. Those ships you stopped? They were going to play with your allies, but instead of your allies preparing to play spaceships, they sent a few gatecamp volunteers and played space-farm instead.
As the obvious happens, and players adapt, it becomes accepted that the space farmers can't be touched, and they stop even being able to handle hostile presence at all.
Somewhere the idea that we want to shoot at each other has been misplaced, by a mockery of real world survival instincts, and we are avoiding interaction as if this was not a game at all. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3302
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 18:10:00 -
[165] - Quote
Removed a troll post. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Syd Unknown
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 11:25:00 -
[166] - Quote
There is only 1 fix for null-sec: FW SOV mechanics, but then on bigger scale. Complexes should be: Medium, Large and X-Large (for capitals)
PRO's:
1. in FW SOV mechanics there are no timers. 2. You can still use your supers to bash the I-Hub once vulnerable 3. If people are not defending their system actively even small Alliances can make it vulnerable. 4. There will be a lot of traffic in 0.0 to run the Complexes for either offensive or defensive plexing.
This will bring a lot of pvp in space. ( and no you wont be able to run the plexes in stabbed frigates.) You will at least need a cruiser sized or a very well fitted dessie for the Medium Complexes, The Larges and X-Larges will need Cruisers and up.
People wont be farming for LP, instead both offensive and defensive should get a preset amount of isk out of the Alliance wallet that is determined by the alliance itself. Pilots that are NOT in an Alliance can NOT run the complexes. That way the Alliance can reward the pilots that are working for them to get SOV. The more SOV an Alliance would have the more they would have to pay to their defending pilots. So holding more SOV would mean more costs. This would mean Small Alliances have a chance too at a smaller scale.
Pilots will get paid for defending and offending systems and you dont need SRP anymore since people can pay for their ships with the isk made from the SOV war. The better they are at PVP and the more systems they take the more Isk the pilots make. That way pilots can make is fighting for SOV. Making isk with PVP. Ideal world. |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
828
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 19:44:00 -
[167] - Quote
I blogged this a year ago so I thought I would take a look at it a year later, make some tweaks to it, and vomit it back out onto the forums. 0.0 is supposed to be a sandbox, so why did CCP add SOV to it making it a slab of concrete?
CCP can you please get rid of SOV. (TCUs, SBUs, Timers, and Docking rights.)
So letGÇÖs think about this for a few minutes. Null Sec with a clean SOV slate.GǪGǪ No more grinding structures, ping ponging timers, alarm clocking, and any other horrendous nightmares you can think of from the last 10 yearsGÇÖ experience. You can change/impact the Null Sec landscape every time you log in and not be subjected to weeks of structures, timers, camps, and blobsGǪ CCP wouldnGÇÖt be faced with trying to fix something thatGÇÖs always been GÇ£brokenGÇ¥, to make something else that can be GÇ£gamed by the fewGÇ¥ and gridlocked again like it is now. They can simply turn it offGǪGǪ..SOV all across 0.0 dropsGǪ..and the players take control over the new sandboxGǪ.
So what are some of the outcomes to doing thisGǪGǪGǪGǪSOV goes away effectively turning Null Sec back into the GÇ£Lawless SpaceGÇ¥ itGÇÖs always been advertised asGǪGǪGǪGǪ..Station and Out Post docking doors are flung wide open across all of Null Sec and 10 years of trapped assets are unlocked for thousands of current, and past, pilots to use again. Pilots are logging in by the thousands and Null Sec springs back to life.
GÇó Alliances are no longer pinned under the weight of coalitions in order to GÇ£keep their spaceGÇ¥GǪGǪGǪ..they simply need to live in, and actively defend it for it to be theirs.
GÇó Local and regional politics would develop with leaders/war lordGÇÖs etc. coming out of the wood works to govern with limited power to hold over playersGÇÖ heads.
GÇó Back room deals can be made by the lowest level grunt each day which could drastically impact what happens throughout a constellation or regionGǪGǪstronger relationships are born.
GÇó Contracts mechanics are developed to support regional trade and local deals.
GÇó Ninja living in Null Sec could be done by anyone who wanted to take the risk alone, in Corps, Alliances by choice while others hunted them.
GÇó Grass roots market HUBs and industry in Null Sec would grow to amazing size and use all over null secGǪ.Jita size HUBs policed by Mercs etcGǪGǪGǪ. Mos Isley Space Station etcGǪ
GÇó And so many other opportunities for player driven content would come to life all around 0.0 as players were free to move where they wanted if they were willing to take the risk and develop the relationships..
So no SOVGǪGǪGǪall the stations and out posts are free portedGǪGǪGǪ.now what? Where can I plant my Alliance flag? What will it be?........my thoughts a GǣAlliance Capital StationGǥGǪGǪdestructibleGǪGǪ
Alliance Capital Station - Each Alliance can launch one GÇ£Capital StationGÇ¥ (Per Region?) which is destructible. Mechanics of how itGÇÖs destructible, timers, and what drops is something CCP/Players can toy with.
Thoughts/options that CCP can build on to make it GÇ£specialGÇ¥:
GÇó GÇ£Capital StationsGÇ¥ allow for Super Carriers to dock GÇó Docking rights can be set in Capital Stations unlike the local free ported stations GÇó Super Carrier Construction Upgrade Slots to be added to the Capital Station GÇó Anchorable mods on the station, large guns, webs, etc. so gunners can use them and station can defend itself like a POS. GÇó Industry upgrades can be added, taxes collected, etc. GÇó It takes an Alliance to up keep itGǪ.they take fuel, food, dancers, janitors, cows, booze, drugs, etc to operate/maintainGǪor it goes off line.. GÇó Walking in station upgrades, Licenses granted for such things as Casinos, bars, shops etc..only available at Alliance Capital StationsGǪthe more come the more isk you make
EmbassyGÇÖs GÇô (Its already going on so why not make it official) An Alliance holding a Region with a Capital Station, can secure an GÇ£EmbassyGÇ¥ in a Free-Ported station in each of the Constellations within the Region held. The benefits of such an Embassy can be decided as this mechanics are hammered out. Maybe some sort of benefits to anyone using the station for trade, industry, or whatever which in turn allows the Alliance to tax the goings on in that station etc.
So what about Jump Bridges, Cyno Gens, Jammers, CSAAs, and all the other SOV driven items? Without getting to f***ing complicated, IGÇÖm pretty sure most of you guys can figure out how to tie those back into the system without turning 0.0 into the same mess itGÇÖs in now.
LetGÇÖs face it, CCP is nowhere near figuring out how to GÇ£fixGÇ¥ current Null Sec GÇ£SOVGÇ¥ mechanics because there is no way to fix itGǪGǪ.shut it down, put in place mechanics that already exist (stations) and with a few tweaks we could be up and running with a new and fresh Null Sec which will thrive for years to comeGǪ
AnywaysGǪGǪ.ItGÇÖs an idea. Build off it or adjust as you think will work better but the simpler the idea more apt itGÇÖs going to get implemented by CCP quicker. The folks that keep coming up with these complicated and intricate ways to GÇ£fixGÇ¥ it just stagnate the process and to be honest, I think thatGÇÖs why you do it so stfu. The above details, or some iteration of it, will give new players a chance to make it in this game and not simply be a puppet.
AnywhooGǪGǪGǪ.flame away and cry like babies about Gǣalready having NPC spaceGǥ and silly crap like that. This is what needs to happen for EVE to surviveGǪ.
Fly it like you stole it!!! (RIP TN) Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
828
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 19:59:00 -
[168] - Quote
TLDR Tie in Post Below:
I think dropping ACS's in Region after Region if the CFC wants to do it would be fine. If they have the isk to do it and the man power to defend it then god bless. The exposure to that tactic is that the space surrounding it and its stations are accessible to anyone and so the Alliance "owning" the Region actually needs to farm/police/and defend the space to get the maximum use out of it or anyone can farm their fields while they are logged off for weeks playing Tanks or Dota and other **** that these AFK Alliances do with all this empty space they control behind locked and abandoned stations, millions of HP, and weeks of timers.
While you aren't playing EVE others could be and they could be making isk because you're to lazy to log in and form a defense fleet, BLOPs fleet, or hot drop of any kind.
I'll post some of my ideas that I had while discussing options in Mannys thread so you can see where I think this could go in relation to what it would take to control a region with a ACS and the associated commitments:
But where is my Alliance name on the EVE map!!! Alliance Capital Stations (ACS) - Each Alliance can launch only one GÇ£Capital StationGÇ¥. When you anchor the ACS you have to name it and the name can never be changed unless Alliance is disbanded (ownership drops) or itGÇÖs destroyed and a new one put up. I see these as the GÇ£Castle BlacksGÇ¥ or PLGÇÖs GÇ£The SphereGÇ¥ stronghold of EVE driving the narrative and actual history for the future books and stories of EVE to come.
Obviously the current size of some Alliances could be too big for pilots to use just one Region or they want to GÇ£ownGÇ¥ two or more Regions. Welp theyGÇÖd need to develop new Alliances and CEOs to drop Alliance Cap Stations in more Regions and this would add stress to the power dynamic and diplomatic scene that EVE needs so much. New Alliance leaders would actually matter a lot more than they do these days and when directors decide to press the "button" on an Alliance Cap Station it could be a little more interesting than just mopping up SOV structures with Super fleets. Anyways, this stacks the house of cards a lot higher which creates content.
It takes an Alliance to up keep itGǪ.they take fuel, ammo, food, dancers, janitors, cows, booze, drugs, etc. to operate/maintainGǪor it goes off line. It takes the ACS Construction Skill book, ACS Station Management Skill Book, BPO, and construction costs which could rival that of what it currently costs to build a Titan. ACS Upgrade Mod Construction Skill Books and BPOs, ACS Regional Embassy Upgrade Mod Construction Skill Books and BPOs, Upgrade Mod Construction costs, and the cost to up keep the ACS would provide the significant isk sinks and industrial activity needed, just like current sov bills do. It might take a little while to actually see many of these out there in null sec but talk about an Alliance goal to be achieved and the pride pilots would have once they got one up.
ACS Regional Embassy Station Upgrade Mods could be fitted to provide bonuses to all open stations in your Region selected as EmbassyGÇÖs and POSGÇÖs anchored in the Region for specific things which would draw players to your Region because others donGÇÖt have that Mod fitted to their ACS. Bonuses are based on your standings with the ACS owner. Your ACS has a SC construction Upgrade fitted? Well guess where all the SC builders could headed with their CSAAs and POSGÇÖsGǪ. Maybe you can only fit 4 on your ACS so your Region could be pretty well known for select bonuses.
EmbassyGÇÖs GÇô (Its already going on so why not make it official) An Alliance holding a Region with a ACS, can secure an GÇ£EmbassyGÇ¥ in a Regional station or outpost in each of the Constellations within the Region held. The additional benefits aside from what the ACS supplies an Embassy can be decided as this mechanics are hammered out. Maybe some sort of benefits to anyone using the station for trade, industry, or whatever which in turn allows the Alliance to tax the goings on in that station etc.
The ACS is destructible. Mechanics of how itGÇÖs destructible, timersGǪ..yes I said GÇ£timersGÇ¥, and what drops is something CCP/Players can toy with. If weGÇÖre going to have timers we should probably have them on **** that matters like POSGÇÖs and these things. These could be your B-R situations of the future. Hire PL to attack of defend one of these things.
If the Region has an Alliance Cap Station, new comers to the area could negotiate special "SOV" standings with the owner which would allow them to anchor specific system upgrades the ACS doesnGÇÖt provide or they can simply ninja live without the standings and upgrades if they don't want to be under the rental "thumb" of any Alliance and are willing to take the risk living there. Maybe the levels of GÇ£SOVGÇ¥ standings do things like expand the docking radius of the Regions open stations and outposts to those with them adding a layer of protection.
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
834
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 14:02:00 -
[169] - Quote
Syd Unknown wrote:There is only 1 fix for null-sec: FW SOV mechanics, but then on bigger scale. Complexes should be: Medium, Large and X-Large (for capitals)
PRO's:
1. in FW SOV mechanics there are no timers. 2. You can still use your supers to bash the I-Hub once vulnerable 3. If people are not defending their system actively even small Alliances can make it vulnerable. 4. There will be a lot of traffic in 0.0 to run the Complexes for either offensive or defensive plexing.
This will bring a lot of pvp in space. ( and no you wont be able to run the plexes in stabbed frigates.) You will at least need a cruiser sized or a very well fitted dessie for the Medium Complexes, The Larges and X-Larges will need Cruisers and up.
People wont be farming for LP, instead both offensive and defensive should get a preset amount of isk out of the Alliance wallet that is determined by the alliance itself. Pilots that are NOT in an Alliance can NOT run the complexes. That way the Alliance can reward the pilots that are working for them to get SOV. The more SOV an Alliance would have the more they would have to pay to their defending pilots. So holding more SOV would mean more costs. This would mean Small Alliances have a chance too at a smaller scale.
Pilots will get paid for defending and offending systems and you dont need SRP anymore since people can pay for their ships with the isk made from the SOV war. The better they are at PVP and the more systems they take the more Isk the pilots make. That way pilots can make is fighting for SOV. Making isk with PVP. Ideal world. This sounds like a giant hamster wheel? What would be the incentive for Coalitions to break up if 0.0 SOV went this way? . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Death Reign
Control-Space DARKNESS.
28
|
Posted - 2014.08.06 21:56:00 -
[170] - Quote
This is EXACTLY Lo Sec. It already exists. Go Play There. People DONT play there for exactly the reason's you've listed. CCP would lose more than they would gain with this |
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Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
834
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 14:16:00 -
[171] - Quote
Death Reign wrote:This is EXACTLY Lo Sec. It already exists. Go Play There. People DONT play there for exactly the reason's you've listed. CCP would lose more than they would gain with this Nope, itGÇÖs not exactly low sec and it doesnGÇÖt already exist as I've described.
Obviously CCP are putting a lot of effort into the changes revolving around Null Sec "SOV" so using this idea as a starting point, it would clean the slate so they can focus on new and exciting options for them to build upon instead of wasting an insane amount of resources/time trying to put in place FW or other "SOV" mechanics that will just be gammed by the coalitionGÇÖs again.
If you want to elaborate on what the underlying issue you have with the idea is then I would love to hear it? Is it that you want your name to show up on the EVE map even if you canGÇÖt afford to build an ACS in a region but still occupying it? ThatGÇÖs understandable especially if your Alliance is farming, defending, and policing the region effectively. You would still be able to anchor IHUBs so as they increased your influence on the space you occupied your Alliance name would start showing up on the EVE "SOV" map as holding that space.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, I could be missing the reason some people want to run on a hamster wheel when they log in in order to "hold space" but no one has yet to explain this? Do you really want to hold space in 0.0 based on how many rats you shoot, mins you mine, and HP/Timers you're able to hide behind? I thought 0.0 Alliances were supposed to be tough and be the "end game" goal for players to be proud of?
If I were CCP I'd ask the CSM9 folks if they would be willing to go this route if CCP were willing to make Covert Ops cloaks something that used fuel or charges so "AFK" cloakers would run out of gas if cloaked for more than an hour or so. I know this issue could run rampant under what I promote so it would be something that could need to be adjusted for this to work. .
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Lugia3
Intentionally Dense Easily Excited
1141
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:37:00 -
[172] - Quote
Needs to happen before it's to late to fix. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik
Remove Sov! |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1301
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:34:00 -
[173] - Quote
I believe it is key that regardless of specific mechanics changes, ISK acquisition be directly tied into continued conflict at the alliance level.
What I mean is, CCP needs to write into the very DNA of any SOV 2.0 system a huge baseline reduction in today's ISK generation in null, followed by buffs to recover said ISK generation resulting from taking and holding systems.
The more systems held, the more buffs to alliance-member ISK generation an alliance receives in those systems....
Think of the impact that would have to the blue-donut, renter stagnation etc...only people actively shooting others in the head (or supporting those that do) in conquest, would make big ISK.
In my musings I further enhanced the ISK-driver concept with a 'home' system and buffs to warfare, as well as common themes around force projection reductions and the nerfing of cyno's to make null SOV a 'march across WWII Europe' similar to the game of Risk, and open the door to smaller alliances biting off pieces of undefended outer systems...
...but key is getting that ISK-for-conflict driver right.
F
Would you like to know more? |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
133
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:43:00 -
[174] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:But then what will the nullbears have to cling to and uphold as their shining achievement that makes them superior to all other players, even if all they did was press F1?
What will the Renters rent?
What will the Pirates pi.... Oh wait....
+1 just because I want to watch what happens when this torch drops on the dry, stale bed of straw that is null-sec when Sov disappears overnight.
OMG THIS MUST SEE Is it bad if your friend says "that was a Metaphor" and you say "Meta 4? Get Tech II or faction" ?I love the sound of silent explosions in Space.-á |
Lugia3
Intentionally Dense Easily Excited
1229
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 21:57:00 -
[175] - Quote
Must not let this thread die. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik
Remove Sov! |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
840
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 16:59:00 -
[176] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: So we are going to have a summit soon, does anyone have any ideas about SOV and Null Sec?
Why yes Fozzie we do. Not sure why you needed to start a new thread about it when I had this one going and Manny's is up to a couple thousand posts that took a month or so to accumulate?
You poked your head back into the thread around page 70 or so to say you were watching......so why ask for a new thread to start? Do we all now need to cross poast all our ideas from these threads to yours for them to be considered?
I guess I should get busy then so my ideas don't get missed.... . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Gridloader
Limitless Capabilities
7
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 14:25:00 -
[177] - Quote
Quote:This idea, or a form of it, would allow players new and dynamic game choices related to Null Sec play. There are hundreds of unused stations and systems all over Null Sec being rented out because the players that want to use them can't kill the SOV structures. The landlords who did, are now logged off, playing other games, and only login to collect the rent checks.
+1 because of truth |
Felix Judge
Gallente Volunteer Defense Forces Spaceship Samurai
7
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 14:18:00 -
[178] - Quote
/bump for comparative reasons |
Infrequent
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
39
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 14:47:00 -
[179] - Quote
Yes, YEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSS!
+1 I cannot +1 this enough! |
Cae Lara
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 19:38:00 -
[180] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote: Nope, itGÇÖs not exactly low sec and it doesnGÇÖt already exist as I've described.
Letting vagrants dock up in every station completely destroys the concept of sovereign space. No, it isn't quite lowsec, instead you seem to be asking to turn everything into NPC Null with anom upgrades.. which seems like an incredibly narrow proposal.
I think your desired end would be better achieved with anomaly attachments on POSes in .04 and below, and a general update to their ability to function as a base of operations. This would allow people to squat in any system they can maintain a stick(including neglected sovnull), and receive the basic benefits of holding sov.
People who can field massive fleets still get cozy stations with fancy upgrades that aren't available to their enemies, jump bridges, and myriad other benefits. But they also have to maintain it. Meanwhile smaller players can just slap down a stick and play without having to jump through hoops meant for groups in the tens of thousands. |
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Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
857
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 03:07:00 -
[181] - Quote
Cae Lara wrote:Snot Shot wrote: Nope, itGÇÖs not exactly low sec and it doesnGÇÖt already exist as I've described.
Letting vagrants dock up in every station completely destroys the concept of sovereign space. No, it isn't quite lowsec, instead you seem to be asking to turn everything into NPC Null with anom upgrades.. which seems like an incredibly narrow proposal. I think your desired end would be better achieved with anomaly attachments on POSes in .04 and below, and a general update to their ability to function as a base of operations. This would allow people to squat in any system they can maintain a stick(including neglected sovnull), and receive the basic benefits of holding sov. People who can field massive fleets still get cozy stations with fancy upgrades that aren't available to their enemies, jump bridges, and myriad other benefits. But they also have to maintain it. Meanwhile smaller players can just slap down a stick and play without having to jump through hoops meant for groups in the tens of thousands. I'm not sure what you said there. I'm also not sure you read enough of what people have posted to understand the general approach.
If CCP wiped the structure/timer issue clean as a requirement to hold space, they could then focus on generating **** that makes this game cool and the reason to fight for systems in 0.0.
Most of EVE players are getting older and dont have time to run on the hamster wheels of SOV like they use to and the A.D.D new gen players want faster content. Add content drivers to the game such as the Castle Blacks, Special Mission agents, plexes that take fleets with SC and Titans in them to complete, and other amazing new content to fight over regions for.
Biggest hurdle facing CCP now is vets are losing confidence that CCP actual has a longterm road map planned out for 0.0 and at this point we're like kids in the back seat screaming "are we there yet??" as we've already **** our pants a number of times and daddy CCP is probably getting ready to run the family car off a cliff at this point just to make us stop. . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Amyclas Amatin
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
345
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 06:34:00 -
[182] - Quote
so you want to take away sov itself and replace it with npc nullsec?
I'm confident the cfc can blob anyone even without timers. But why should your arses dock in our stations? For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
857
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 13:17:00 -
[183] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:so you want to take away sov itself and replace it with npc nullsec?
I'm confident the cfc can blob anyone even without timers. But why should your arses dock in our stations? If you havenGÇÖt noticed yet, CCP is planning on changing null sec mechanics. Furthermore, if you havenGÇÖt noticed, SOV mechanics are **** and have in part produced the circle jerk weGÇÖve got going on today. Add a little goonie diplomacy in there and we got the human centipede we see circling null sec. If you want to throw a statement at it like GÇ£turn it into NPC Null secGÇ¥ without reading the rest of the ideas that differ it from NPC Null sec then my effortless answer back to you would be GÇ£noGÇ¥GǪ.
As far as you being GÇ£confidentGÇ¥ that CFC could blob without timers goesGǪGǪ.good for you. From your employment history it looks like youGÇÖve been kicked about this game worse than most toons IGÇÖve seen so that explains why you would be heated about my idea. You finally GÇ£make itGÇ¥ by giving up on being good at the game and join the wannabe goon blob brigadeGǪGǪ.gfGǪ
GǣBut why should your arses dock in our stationsGǥGǪGǪGǪ..Yah know what would be hilarious? If CCP implemented the mechanic where you could only doc in a Null Sec station if your character was part of the Corp who anchored it at the time it was anchored. That would keep followers like you from crying about losing or not having access to assets you never had anything to do with in the first placeGǪGǪ..
AnywhooGǪGǪ.thanks for the bump and should be fun to hear what CSM and CCP hammer out this week at the summitGǪ . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4380
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 13:38:00 -
[184] - Quote
Fan of this idea from the start...
But this gem...
Snot Shot wrote:.... Add a little goonie diplomacy in there and we got the human centipede we see circling null sec. If you want to throw a statement at it like Gǣturn it into NPC Null secGǥ without reading the rest of the ideas that differ it from NPC Null sec then my effortless answer back to you would be GǣnoGǥGǪ. .....
I want a T-Shirt that says Goontipede or something like that... that blue doughnut's description just got upgraded!
+1 Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Amyclas Amatin
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
346
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 16:53:00 -
[185] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:so you want to take away sov itself and replace it with npc nullsec?
I'm confident the cfc can blob anyone even without timers. But why should your arses dock in our stations? If you havenGÇÖt noticed yet, CCP is planning on changing null sec mechanics. Furthermore, if you havenGÇÖt noticed, SOV mechanics are **** and have in part produced the circle jerk weGÇÖve got going on today. Add a little goonie diplomacy in there and we got the human centipede we see circling null sec. If you want to throw a statement at it like GÇ£turn it into NPC Null secGÇ¥ without reading the rest of the ideas that differ it from NPC Null sec then my effortless answer back to you would be GÇ£noGÇ¥GǪ. As far as you being GÇ£confidentGÇ¥ that CFC could blob without timers goesGǪGǪ.good for you. From your employment history it looks like youGÇÖve been kicked about this game worse than most toons IGÇÖve seen so that explains why you would be heated about my idea. You finally GÇ£make itGÇ¥ by giving up on being good at the game and join the wannabe goon blob brigadeGǪGǪ.gfGǪ GÇ£But why should your arses dock in our stationsGÇ¥GǪGǪ GǪ..Yah know what would be hilarious? If CCP implemented the mechanic where you could only doc in a Null Sec station if your character was part of the Corp who anchored it at the time it was anchored. That would keep followers like you from crying about losing or not having access to assets you never had anything to do with in the first placeGǪGǪ.. AnywhooGǪGǪ.thanks for the bump and should be fun to hear what CSM and CCP hammer out this week at the summitGǪ .
You have such wonderful ideas, my good fellow. For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
477
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 16:53:01 -
[186] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:so you want to take away sov itself and replace it with npc nullsec?
I'm confident the cfc can blob anyone even without timers. But why should your arses dock in our stations? If you havenGÇÖt noticed yet, CCP is planning on changing null sec mechanics. Furthermore, if you havenGÇÖt noticed, SOV mechanics are **** and have in part produced the circle jerk weGÇÖve got going on today. Add a little goonie diplomacy in there and we got the human centipede we see circling null sec. If you want to throw a statement at it like GÇ£turn it into NPC Null secGÇ¥ without reading the rest of the ideas that differ it from NPC Null sec then my effortless answer back to you would be GÇ£noGÇ¥GǪ. As far as you being GÇ£confidentGÇ¥ that CFC could blob without timers goesGǪGǪ.good for you. From your employment history it looks like youGÇÖve been kicked about this game worse than most toons IGÇÖve seen so that explains why you would be heated about my idea. You finally GÇ£make itGÇ¥ by giving up on being good at the game and join the wannabe goon blob brigadeGǪGǪ.gfGǪ GÇ£But why should your arses dock in our stationsGÇ¥GǪGǪ GǪ..Yah know what would be hilarious? If CCP implemented the mechanic where you could only doc in a Null Sec station if your character was part of the Corp who anchored it at the time it was anchored. That would keep followers like you from crying about losing or not having access to assets you never had anything to do with in the first placeGǪGǪ.. AnywhooGǪGǪ.thanks for the bump and should be fun to hear what CSM and CCP hammer out this week at the summitGǪ .
You have such wonderful ideas, my good fellow.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
New Order Diplomat, contact me for all your New Order enquiries!
|
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
2
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 18:52:00 -
[187] - Quote
Yeah it would be nice to see the little guy have fun for a change. DOWN WITH THE NULLSEC HUMAN CENTIPEDE...minus provi. |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
21
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 18:52:48 -
[188] - Quote
Yeah it would be nice to see the little guy have fun for a change. DOWN WITH THE NULLSEC HUMAN CENTIPEDE...minus provi. |
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
185
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 19:52:00 -
[189] - Quote
Quote:Quote:
Bring Military and Indy to 5 you gain control of that system progressively more.
Have fun keeping that if you are not in the system(s) all the time. Without the current sov mechanic, you can only enforce your claimes in areas where you are actually present. Where nothing happens from your side, you don't "own" the space. Thats the whole point. If you live in the friggin system all the time you get the benefits. If you don't well tough luck
|
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC 404 Alliance Not Found
192
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 19:52:03 -
[190] - Quote
Quote:Quote:
Bring Military and Indy to 5 you gain control of that system progressively more.
Have fun keeping that if you are not in the system(s) all the time. Without the current sov mechanic, you can only enforce your claimes in areas where you are actually present. Where nothing happens from your side, you don't "own" the space. Thats the whole point. If you live in the friggin system all the time you get the benefits. If you don't well tough luck
|
|
Amyclas Amatin
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
348
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 19:54:00 -
[191] - Quote
There are other areas of space where the mechanics encourage small-gang work. For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
477
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 19:54:59 -
[192] - Quote
There are other areas of space where the mechanics encourage small-gang work.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
New Order Diplomat, contact me for all your New Order enquiries!
|
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
859
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 19:58:00 -
[193] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:There are other areas of space where the mechanics encourage small-gang work. Your kidding?... . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
869
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 19:58:34 -
[194] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:There are other areas of space where the mechanics encourage small-gang work. Your kidding?... .
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com
|
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
185
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 20:12:00 -
[195] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:so you want to take away sov itself and replace it with npc nullsec?
I'm confident the cfc can blob anyone even without timers. But why should your arses dock in our stations? If you havenGÇÖt noticed yet, CCP is planning on changing null sec mechanics. Furthermore, if you havenGÇÖt noticed, SOV mechanics are **** and have in part produced the circle jerk weGÇÖve got going on today. Add a little goonie diplomacy in there and we got the human centipede we see circling null sec. If you want to throw a statement at it like GÇ£turn it into NPC Null secGÇ¥ without reading the rest of the ideas that differ it from NPC Null sec then my effortless answer back to you would be GÇ£noGÇ¥GǪ. As far as you being GÇ£confidentGÇ¥ that CFC could blob without timers goesGǪGǪ.good for you. From your employment history it looks like youGÇÖve been kicked about this game worse than most toons IGÇÖve seen so that explains why you would be heated about my idea. You finally GÇ£make itGÇ¥ by giving up on being good at the game and join the wannabe goon blob brigadeGǪGǪ.gfGǪ GÇ£But why should your arses dock in our stationsGÇ¥GǪGǪ GǪ..Yah know what would be hilarious? If CCP implemented the mechanic where you could only doc in a Null Sec station if your character was part of the Corp who anchored it at the time it was anchored. That would keep followers like you from crying about losing or not having access to assets you never had anything to do with in the first placeGǪGǪ.. AnywhooGǪGǪ.thanks for the bump and should be fun to hear what CSM and CCP hammer out this week at the summitGǪ . Ok how about a slightly more serious take on this point. If the goons can organize enough people to blob everyone all the time then more power to them. I am absolutely certain that they can't blob everyone all the time. BUT they sure as hell can blob a good area of space and make it Goonland. That's what we want to see it. If goons want to make they own kingdom they can have it as long as they live there and defend it. If they think they can hold more space they need to be able to expand and use the new space as well as take it from the previous holders. Although, if you control/built a station you should certainly be allowed to block access to whoever you want. But, they could just toss up a POS and live out of there. And if you don't do anything to prevent them...its obviously not under your control. |
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC 404 Alliance Not Found
192
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 20:12:20 -
[196] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:so you want to take away sov itself and replace it with npc nullsec?
I'm confident the cfc can blob anyone even without timers. But why should your arses dock in our stations? If you havenGÇÖt noticed yet, CCP is planning on changing null sec mechanics. Furthermore, if you havenGÇÖt noticed, SOV mechanics are **** and have in part produced the circle jerk weGÇÖve got going on today. Add a little goonie diplomacy in there and we got the human centipede we see circling null sec. If you want to throw a statement at it like GÇ£turn it into NPC Null secGÇ¥ without reading the rest of the ideas that differ it from NPC Null sec then my effortless answer back to you would be GÇ£noGÇ¥GǪ. As far as you being GÇ£confidentGÇ¥ that CFC could blob without timers goesGǪGǪ.good for you. From your employment history it looks like youGÇÖve been kicked about this game worse than most toons IGÇÖve seen so that explains why you would be heated about my idea. You finally GÇ£make itGÇ¥ by giving up on being good at the game and join the wannabe goon blob brigadeGǪGǪ.gfGǪ GÇ£But why should your arses dock in our stationsGÇ¥GǪGǪ GǪ..Yah know what would be hilarious? If CCP implemented the mechanic where you could only doc in a Null Sec station if your character was part of the Corp who anchored it at the time it was anchored. That would keep followers like you from crying about losing or not having access to assets you never had anything to do with in the first placeGǪGǪ.. AnywhooGǪGǪ.thanks for the bump and should be fun to hear what CSM and CCP hammer out this week at the summitGǪ . Ok how about a slightly more serious take on this point. If the goons can organize enough people to blob everyone all the time then more power to them. I am absolutely certain that they can't blob everyone all the time. BUT they sure as hell can blob a good area of space and make it Goonland. That's what we want to see it. If goons want to make they own kingdom they can have it as long as they live there and defend it. If they think they can hold more space they need to be able to expand and use the new space as well as take it from the previous holders. Although, if you control/built a station you should certainly be allowed to block access to whoever you want. But, they could just toss up a POS and live out of there. And if you don't do anything to prevent them...its obviously not under your control. |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
859
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Posted - 2014.09.18 20:41:00 -
[197] - Quote
Krystyn wrote: Although, if you control/built a station you should certainly be allowed to block access to whoever you want. But, they could just toss up a POS and live out of there. And if you don't do anything to prevent them...its obviously not under your control. Access to stations allows space to be contested on a granular and real time level between entities. You can only bat phone your buddies so many times from 3 regions away before they will tell you to GÇ£deal with itGÇ¥ since the hostiles can just dock up if you bring friends to fight them, wait you out, and undock when your friends have left to continue working the space etc.
If you want to GÇ£ownGÇ¥ the space then you need to be able to defend it at all times. Tossing up a POS to live out of just allows one side to blob out the other etc.
IGÇÖd like to see CCP focus their efforts not on creating some insanely intricate math formula for keeping SOV etc, and focus on developing new aspects of the game related to the reasons why players want that space over another location etc. . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
869
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Posted - 2014.09.18 20:41:32 -
[198] - Quote
Krystyn wrote: Although, if you control/built a station you should certainly be allowed to block access to whoever you want. But, they could just toss up a POS and live out of there. And if you don't do anything to prevent them...its obviously not under your control. Access to stations allows space to be contested on a granular and real time level between entities. You can only bat phone your buddies so many times from 3 regions away before they will tell you to GÇ£deal with itGÇ¥ since the hostiles can just dock up if you bring friends to fight them, wait you out, and undock when your friends have left to continue working the space etc.
If you want to GÇ£ownGÇ¥ the space then you need to be able to defend it at all times. Tossing up a POS to live out of just allows one side to blob out the other etc.
IGÇÖd like to see CCP focus their efforts not on creating some insanely intricate math formula for keeping SOV etc, and focus on developing new aspects of the game related to the reasons why players want that space over another location etc. .
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com
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Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
185
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Posted - 2014.09.18 22:06:00 -
[199] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:Krystyn wrote: Although, if you control/built a station you should certainly be allowed to block access to whoever you want. But, they could just toss up a POS and live out of there. And if you don't do anything to prevent them...its obviously not under your control. Access to stations allows space to be contested on a granular and real time level between entities. You can only bat phone your buddies so many times from 3 regions away before they will tell you to GÇ£deal with itGÇ¥ since the hostiles can just dock up if you bring friends to fight them, wait you out, and undock when your friends have left to continue working the space etc. If you want to GÇ£ownGÇ¥ the space then you need to be able to defend it at all times. Tossing up a POS to live out of just allows one side to blob out the other etc. IGÇÖd like to see CCP focus their efforts not on creating some insanely intricate math formula for keeping SOV etc, and focus on developing new aspects of the game related to the reasons why players want that space over another location etc. .
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Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC 404 Alliance Not Found
192
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Posted - 2014.09.18 22:06:41 -
[200] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:Krystyn wrote: Although, if you control/built a station you should certainly be allowed to block access to whoever you want. But, they could just toss up a POS and live out of there. And if you don't do anything to prevent them...its obviously not under your control. Access to stations allows space to be contested on a granular and real time level between entities. You can only bat phone your buddies so many times from 3 regions away before they will tell you to GÇ£deal with itGÇ¥ since the hostiles can just dock up if you bring friends to fight them, wait you out, and undock when your friends have left to continue working the space etc. If you want to GÇ£ownGÇ¥ the space then you need to be able to defend it at all times. Tossing up a POS to live out of just allows one side to blob out the other etc. IGÇÖd like to see CCP focus their efforts not on creating some insanely intricate math formula for keeping SOV etc, and focus on developing new aspects of the game related to the reasons why players want that space over another location etc. .
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Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
869
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Posted - 2014.11.14 12:47:00 -
[201] - Quote
So with CCP now considering the basics of this approach, it sounds like the biggest question would be "what to fight over if there are no timers?"...
Well thats where CCP can now put thier efforts and focus to breath new life it why we are out there and what will drive conflict well into the future....instead of the same old crappy SOV structures and timers. .
Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á - GÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
evesnotshot.blogspot.com
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Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
17
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Posted - 2014.11.17 15:02:40 -
[202] - Quote
Null is and will stay broken as long as a simple(!) change is not applied, but let me explain it a bit.
The current SOV owners always have 100% control over their area, no matter how many members the corp claiming the space actually has and how many systems they control. As soon as someone else places a POS in their region they are automatically informed by email. So all you currently need is a corp with enough renters to pay the monthly bills for the SOV signs and at least one fleet to discourage small groups from using your area you don't want (move in, place a POS, don't pay rent). This is the current situation ,see NCDOts renter space as example where a small gang with 10-20 people keep >600 systems under control.
Dropping the automatic message now would totally change the game. The owner suddenly has to spend game time, fly around in the claimed space and actively search for intruders.
In the end this would finally break the neck of the big corps. Why pay rent and not just sneak in instead? How could a small corp like the NCDots renter corp keep control over >600 systems? How high is the chance that 10 men travel through 600 systems with scanner probes searching for unwanted POSses?
Less/no renter income sooner or later would force the corps to drop SOV in areas which suddenly cannot be controlled anymore leaving space behind which could be claimed by others.
Simple change but I would say: it would be efficient.
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Dustpuppy
Rox Inc
17
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Posted - 2014.11.17 15:14:37 -
[203] - Quote
[edit] wrong button pressed. [/edit |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1575
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Posted - 2014.11.18 20:07:03 -
[204] - Quote
Don't know if people missed it because of link-click fatigue, but there is (I believe) a silver bullet hiding in my musings on this that has been missed in many proposals to fix null sov to date...
Yes, power projection was a good first step. Getting rid of structure grinding and timers is an important next one. But just as important is to nerf ISK generation across the board, then provide buffs to ISK generation through conquest at the alliance level.
No more dropping IHUBS for buffs, your buffs come from number of alliance systems held. No more coalition circle jerking, because buffs only benefit an alliance. No more renter stagnation, because renters don't receive buff benefits, only alliance members do.
SOV 2.0 needs to center around making it an ISK wasteland to start, and then giving ISK generation buffs back to each alliance based on the number of systems they conquer and hold.
F
Would you like to know more?
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Jenshae Chiroptera
511
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Posted - 2014.11.19 02:54:06 -
[205] - Quote
I am sure these have been said before in this thread, I don't have enough interest to read it all but I will say it for the sake of reiterating it:
1) Some systems are kept not to be used but to keep the spice flowing. They are pretty much just there for blue space to fly through and with the recent jump changes that will become more important. 2) There are time holes in every alliance. Without timers they will not gather and will not defend, so you will see a lot of explosions for awhile then a very empty null sec as the cost of building up systems out weighs the gains.
Ideas & stuff
EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down.
Status: Bouncing on the diving board.
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4418
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Posted - 2014.11.19 14:09:58 -
[206] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I am sure these have been said before in this thread, I don't have enough interest to read it all but I will say it for the sake of reiterating it:
1) Some systems are kept not to be used but to keep the spice flowing. They are pretty much just there for blue space to fly through and with the recent jump changes that will become more important. 2) There are time holes in every alliance. Without timers they will not gather and will not defend, so you will see a lot of explosions for awhile then a very empty null sec as the cost of building up systems out weighs the gains.
Edit:
An interesting thing might be acknowledging coalitions in the mechanics. Allow different alliances to build stations in each other's systems. This might cause coalitions to contract into smaller areas that are more easily defended. Those defense fleets would see more combat. Instead of a few blues hiding and waiting for the horde to pass through a few systems. You are assuming that null will be emptied, as if no alliances would step up to claim space abandoned by others.
You may not understand this, but to many null has created the impression of being full.
Is the space being used? Not important to the guy outside that alliance, since it was CLAIMED. They can't get in to use it, because a fleet would show up to kick them out, and they KNOW this.
The perception of being full, while in many ways falling short of full activity, is supported by being defended by those who claimed the space.
It doesn't matter if you would use it, if you can't either take it, or have the mindset of a renter.
The space is going unused because the big blue doughnuts wanted gud fights rather than population density.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
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SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
233
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Posted - 2014.11.25 17:01:50 -
[207] - Quote
CCP has done well to nerf power projection for fleet fights. Now, they just have to do the same for SOV. I do believe there are several small coding changes that CCP could make that would 'ween' or force us into adapting to an occupancy-based sov system, prior to them introducing major changes and features. Ideally I'd like to see them remove all timers, but a middle-ground of removing all timers for Border systems (ie border systems of current alliance sov holder) would also work.
If border systems could change hands in less than a day, it wouldn't really matter too much if they ping-ponged with ownership. It would mean that yes, a huge supercap fleet from regions away could come and take the system really fast, but, it also means that the system could just be retaken the same day said supercap fleet leaves. This should put an end to the tired meta of having one supercap fleet being able to defend your multiple regions, and should force systems to be held only by local defenders. |
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