Warp bubbles, dictors, and hictors all make your idea redundant.

Boobles are fine. If your small fleet is having trouble going through a heavily boobled system (god forbid there are rats on the gate!!!), I would recommend something like a prop mod, either mwd or AB, and a bit of tank. Yeah even interceptors don't want to stay long at zero on a gate with rats pounding on them, but if you are dying to the rats you are really not doing it right..

I'm still trying to understand why the interceptors need survive 200km+ on each gate??? They can't be stopped by bubbles last I checked. Not to mention it's rare an interceptor can be hit by a gate rat. (Unless you are heading in a straight at or from them.) In a non inty gang you should be able to down quickly or tank the gate rats.

PS- Personally I think gate rats should shoot player structures in any case....

So you want to replace bubbles with HIC alts?

Ive been through hundreds of 0.0 jumps in the past few months... Ive very rarely run into these camps you speak of...

How about the next time you run into one of these ridiculous camps, you dont leeroy your way into the next system because you know you wont have fleet support?

Maybe i didn't write it clearly enough. Ceptors can go through the pocket, catch carrier or something. In the same time main gang have to warp on gate, row 150km toward the gate because there are 80 bubbles spherically covering the gate, jump, moving another 150km from 100 bubbles spherically covering the gate, rinse and repeat untill you reach your destination,

Skill up your reading comprehension before you post something on forum.

Perhaps you should read your own posts before responding to constructive criticism.

Also perhaps if you put some thought into flying your interceptor you wouldnt have the problem YOU listed above.

If you never saw 100 bubbles on gate 'defending' dead end pockets maybe you should roam sov 0.0 more often.

+1
Or just don't allow them to be anchored closer than 60km away from gate.
This will still allow them to be used as a dragging bubbles.

More organized groups are still using light and heavy dictors to secure the gate.

Sov holders keep talking about how highsec should gang up and do something about one coalition taking all of null.

Then when this is suggested everyone becomes very reluctant.


So whatever twists their panties gets a +1 from me. The one time I WAS interested in exploring Null I met such an uncamped gate of about 60 bubbles, and by the time I got out of it, the baddies arrived.

I have learned on the forums that nerfs are needed everywhere, just not in anybodies particular playstyle.

If nerfs are needed everywhere, then perhaps it is your own ability to adapt that needs buffed.

Small gang is dying because of mechanics like this. Mobile Warp Disruptor's need to get redone along with the POS Code. Telling people to HTFU will not solve this issue as it can only become a larger problem as people see that it is effective. Changing the nature of the mechanics before is becomes a problem is a good solution.

Besides why would you want to shoot dozens of bubbles on the gate while your position is exposed and you're stuck, tactically that makes no sense and very few fc's will 'shoot' down bubbles while having a potential engagement with another fleet. On the other hand if there is no opposition, why would you waste your time shooting bubbles when you could just move on to something more fun.

Forever bubbles need to go, they're as antiquated as POS's. Adaptation has nothing to do with this, currently nullsec involves 3 types of pvp, Frigates (mostly interceptors 30-80 people), Covert hotdropping (10-30 people), or fleet warfare with bridging(100+ people). Every playstyle has a way to bypass or quickly move through hellcamps of bubbles.

There are many more styles of pvp in Eve and it saddens me to see us limit ourselves in Nullsec because we don't want to put a timer on Mobile Warp Disruptors. Stop trolling and provide a counter argument on why there shouldn't be a timer on bubbles, become engaged in the discussion and back up your statements with something of substance.

Every playstyle has a way to bypass or quickly move through hellcamps of bubbles.

The failure in your logic is you think warp bubbles last forever. Warp bubbles are very easy to pop, so if you're caught by a 200km stop bubble, simply have your fleet pop it and continue on. As said earlier, any decently organized fleet has the firepower to wipe the gate rats. If you don't have the dps to pop a gate rat, what makes you think you have the dps to pop anything else?

In my travels throughout New Eden the only place I've seen gates uber-bubbled has been dead-end systems and EC-. Most bubbled systems only have a handful of bubbles, and if you spend half as long shooting them as you spend trying to get bubbles nerfed on forums, they go away.

Skill up your reading comprehension before you post something on forum.

Try roaming null sec more often.

My reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. Again, logic seems to escape you here. Just because someone disagrees with you, and is fairly sure the issue lies with you, doesn't mean they have low reading comprehension. Next time, try to troll with a saying you didn't just copy/paste from some other thread.


I live in null and have an alt I regularly send out into red space to partake in ninja exploration. Perhaps it's your region that has the problem. The 8 regions I regularly fly through don't seem to have more then 1 or 2 bubbles when they have them at all.

Still waiting for a discussion rather than claims, why should the bubbles not have a timer on them? I've presented my side, stop trolling and make your case.

Oh and my little part of null, is down the wormhole, and we have very little problems with bubble hell camps because entrances aren't static and the pvp is much better IMHO.

So long as the time is measured in days I don't have a problem with putting a timer on mobile disruptors. Currently, mobile disruptors are the only tool for filling the role of static warp denial. Hicters and dictors are dynamic forms that require far more training and a warm body to operate (they're also more useful in my opinion, but for different reasons).

No. Why don't you want to have 2 hours timer? You can still camp ships on poses with them, or setup small camp. All you need is fuel in cargo. I want to nerf ability to anchor hundreds forever lasting bubbles with zero effort.

Bubbles used this way destroy content, why? Last time i checked 95% of sov 0.0 leave in peace, generating zero content for others, just making isks. WoW style playing. Most of the content in addition to wars generates small roaming groups. Unfortunately there is no reason to fight with us, you can just stay docked, smack on local and wait until we move somewhere else. Easiest way to force fight is catching some fancy isk printing machine.

The failure in your logic is you think warp bubbles last forever. Warp bubbles are very easy to pop, so if you're caught by a 200km stop bubble, simply have your fleet pop it and continue on.

As I said before. Bubbles have been int he game for a very long time. There are methods for dealing with them and I'm hardly an authority on the tactics for doing so, but they're not a afkwinallsnooze button you make them out to be.

Bubbles are not the reason you don't find targets in null. Granted they may slow you down, but any ratter/miner in null worth anything is watching intel and sees you coming from several systems away.

As far as generating zero content goes, your going out to hunt them is not considered zero content. You occasionally find one not paying attention to intel and get s kill, that is not zero content. The fact that they don't simply line up for you to kill is not a matter of game mechanics, but of their choice to avoid pvp.

Um, because POS mechanics and sov mechanics are measured in days not hours and I might as well just have a couple of hicter pilots at that point? I mean hypothetically I "could" camp a POS with them, but anyone who has actually done it will tell you you're completely high to think that's an ok alternative.

Yes they are, but 3, 4 and more years ago wars generates content everywhere, where is this content now?

Rest of your post shows lacks in your pvp experience.

As long as small groups can't do anything else to spawn fight permanent bubbles are the main problem. If we can not move fast, we are losing our only advantage.

Bubbles have nothing to do with pos mechanics, or sov mechanics it was intended to be tool for pirate or tactic tools during fights.

If you are affraid of pos shooting your bubbles, try to remove guns first.

Great idea here folks...

Anti-bubbles...

HIC only, deploy your anti-bubble and if it covers at least 50% of a normal bubble or disruptor, they destroy each other.

Add in a flashy explosion with random colors.

I now eagerly await the first HICDisco party video on Youtube.

The only thing I would be in favor of is increasing the build cost of bubbles slightly, large bubbles especially.

That being said, if an alliance is willing to allow 200-300 million isk in bubbles to go poof undefended then I'm all for allowing them whatever marginal security that provides them from people like the OP who arent inventive enough to come up with a solution to that problem.

I hope you remember was was said about titans: "they are extremely expensive so there should be only few in entire game". Changing prices won't change this situation. 200 - 300 mln isk one ratting corp can earn in less than hour.

But poor solo taranis pilot will have to choose between buying new ship or bubble.

my idea for bubbles would be simpler

small mobile warp disruptor will have fuel bay for 6 hours . if someone attack the bubble device and down to 25% of shields
it go into reinforced mode, buble is down for hour , then it exit reinforced and can be destroyed otherwise after fuel reserve is depleted then bubble is offline

medium mobile warp disruptor
fuel bay for 12 hours of online bubble it can be reinforced for 2 hours


large mobile warp disruptor
fuel bay for 24 hours of online buble, can be reinforced for 3 hours

factional mobile warp disruptor
fuel bay for 48 hours can be reinforced for 4hours

Yes , but.
I fit my battleship for a full tank, pack it's cargo hold full of large bubbles , and drop in the middle of enemy capital fleet.
I drop next disruptor when the first dies , i got reps from logistics.

Battleship class HIC?

Oh and i have carriers , can i make them capital class hics, 10k m3 of large warp distributors.

The difference from today bubbles is 180 sec of anchoring and they last forever or until destroyed. So today you can have capital Hic with 10km3 (around 17?) of large T2 bubbles, that's bubbling forever x 17.

After the change, your Battleship class HIC deploy the bubble in the middle of capital fleet, then someone bumps you, and the bubble pops! Your capital HIC at least will be scrammed and bubbled in the process, 3, 2, 1 hot drop incoming.

Try some bloob fights

For example : Ghost riding changes
Right now in order to catch a super people are using Ghost riders :

1. Find a super in a cyno frigate.
2. Place a cyno
3. Jump in a carrier ( titans are often to far)
4. Launch HIC from a carrier
5. Change ships ; point the super ; light the cyno for the rest of the fleet.


What you are proposing :

1. Find a super in a cyno frigate.
2. Place a cyno , near the super
3. Jump in the carrier, deploy Large Mobile Disruptor & place the cyno using your carrier.

Now think about how this can be abused during the fleets, want a anti bomber defense?
Drop bubble , and replace it every <2minutes , by moving away and drop another.

Want to insta warp off whole fleet?
You don't have to wait for dictor bubbles to explode, for a HIC cycle to end, just move away from current bubble

Sov holders keep talking about how highsec should gang up and do something about one coalition taking all of null.

Then when this is suggested everyone becomes very reluctant.


So whatever twists their panties gets a +1 from me. The one time I WAS interested in exploring Null I met such an uncamped gate of about 60 bubbles, and by the time I got out of it, the baddies arrived.

Mobile Warp Disruptors should be content generators, not tool for avoiding content.

Right now most of these are anchored in 0.0 on gates to prevent small pvp groups from moving fast trough space.

Devs gave us intreceptors but they won't survive long enough on rats fire when gang have to fly 200km+ to the gate and same distance on the other side of the gate.

My solution is simple: Mobile Warp Disruptors should use fuel, and has small fuelbay, for 1 max 2 hours. Or just explode after 1, 2 hours. Its fair for tactic pvp usage on grid, or setting up small camp.

You can still set up bubble on gate to your farming system, but not 50 like today.

What has Mobile Warp Disruptor to do with content? Today we have 2 oponents in sov war, Days with small local wars everywhere in galaxy are gone long ago. The only left content ganerate people from small gangs who roaming sov 0.0 systems, but current situation make this work really hard.

CCP changed rats agro (npc pirates should be more than happy that we want to kill thier Nemesis), added mjd. I hope devs don't chenged mind and this is still pvp game where small groups with high game skills can find something for theirself.

Fly Unsafe

I still can't support generic decay, there are too many strategic uses in areas of the game where time is measured in days (as others have mentioned), around POS etc.

But a "gate area" decay mechanism is perfectly fine. I suspect that rats shooting them are the "easiest" way to achieve this without too much work (and if it has the added effect of having them shoot other deployables like MTU/Depots then even better).

The failure in your logic is you think warp bubbles last forever. Warp bubbles are very easy to pop, so if you're caught by a 200km stop bubble, simply have your fleet pop it and continue on. As said earlier, any decently organized fleet has the firepower to wipe the gate rats. If you don't have the dps to pop a gate rat, what makes you think you have the dps to pop anything else?

In my travels throughout New Eden the only place I've seen gates uber-bubbled has been dead-end systems and EC-. Most bubbled systems only have a handful of bubbles, and if you spend half as long shooting them as you spend trying to get bubbles nerfed on forums, they go away.

Like someone else said in the thread, just change it so that rats will shoot at any player structures within the same grid as the gate or some other reasonable distance. This doesn't change any mobile bubble mechanics, and actually makes sense. Why would pirates not shoot at a mobile bubble a capsuleer anchored?

Mobile Warp Disruptors should be content generators, not tool for avoiding content.

Right now most of these are anchored in 0.0 on gates to prevent small pvp groups from moving fast trough space.

Devs gave us intreceptors but they won't survive long enough on rats fire when gang have to fly 200km+ to the gate and same distance on the other side of the gate.

My solution is simple: Mobile Warp Disruptors should use fuel, and has small fuelbay, for 1 max 2 hours. Or just explode after 1, 2 hours. Its fair for tactic pvp usage on grid, or setting up small camp.

You can still set up bubble on gate to your farming system, but not 50 like today.

What has Mobile Warp Disruptor to do with content? Today we have 2 oponents in sov war, Days with small local wars everywhere in galaxy are gone long ago. The only left content ganerate people from small gangs who roaming sov 0.0 systems, but current situation make this work really hard.

CCP changed rats agro (npc pirates should be more than happy that we want to kill thier Nemesis), added mjd. I hope devs don't chenged mind and this is still pvp game where small groups with high game skills can find something for theirself.

Fly Unsafe

Like someone else said in the thread, just change it so that rats will shoot at any player structures within the same grid as the gate or some other reasonable distance. This doesn't change any mobile bubble mechanics, and actually makes sense. Why would pirates not shoot at a mobile bubble a capsuleer anchored?

its not about rats its about bubbles... jeez

no

If you never seen 50+ bubbles on gate here is small example of this problem: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1407/example.png

I don't know much, but that many bubbles is probably bordering (if not directly) exploit territory since it would take your client so much longer to load the grid when you jump.

bump

bump = fail

If you have to bump your own thread, then apparently not enough people care about the topic you're discussing.

Small gang is dying because of mechanics like this. Mobile Warp Disruptor's need to get redone along with the POS Code. Telling people to HTFU will not solve this issue as it can only become a larger problem as people see that it is effective. Changing the nature of the mechanics before is becomes a problem is a good solution.

Besides why would you want to shoot dozens of bubbles on the gate while your position is exposed and you're stuck, tactically that makes no sense and very few fc's will 'shoot' down bubbles while having a potential engagement with another fleet. On the other hand if there is no opposition, why would you waste your time shooting bubbles when you could just move on to something more fun.

Forever bubbles need to go, they're as antiquated as POS's. Adaptation has nothing to do with this, currently nullsec involves 3 types of pvp, Frigates (mostly interceptors 30-80 people), Covert hotdropping (10-30 people), or fleet warfare with bridging(100+ people). Every playstyle has a way to bypass or quickly move through hellcamps of bubbles.

There are many more styles of pvp in Eve and it saddens me to see us limit ourselves in Nullsec because we don't want to put a timer on Mobile Warp Disruptors. Stop trolling and provide a counter argument on why there shouldn't be a timer on bubbles, become engaged in the discussion and back up your statements with something of substance.

Mobile warp bubbles are an excellent tool for small gang PvP'ers. I use bubbles to split response fleets up, allowing us to pick them off in small bite-sized morsels. Bubbles are easily circumvented by both inties and the use of bookmarks. I really don't understand this ire towards bubbles.

As for auto-expiring bubbles. I can cope with a 2 hr time limit on bubbles, IF their cost was significantly reduced.

Alternatively, I would rather have bubbles simply have less HP (especially large bubbles).

Remember, you might not like a bubble camped gate with 50 large bubbles. But that's 800m isk worth of bubbles that took an hour or two to setup. Furthermore, it often makes people feel "safe" in a system when an inty can come in and still tackle them with ease. Are they really a problem?

HIC alts at lease have to pay a sub.

Yes bubbles are a perfect tool for small gangs and solo pilots who can shape grid by using them. In this case nothing is wrong with them and nothing will change after adding 2 hours limit.

You talking about time and money wasted to set up these defending structures. Trust me there is no effort. 800mln isk is no more than 1 hour of ratting for smartbombing bs'es (1 guy can easily do that). You gonna shoot lage bubble way longer than it needs to set up and anchore. Do you really want to spent entire evening on shooting them? So if you put enough bubbles you can be sure they are safe and you can just check once a week if everything is ok. There is no effort in this. And now add timer to bubbles. Can you see difference?

But imagine you want to roam in deep sov 0.0, with intel, eyes 3 jumps before pockets with people and of corse lots of bubbles on gates. Your scouts can go freely through gates and maybe fast enough to catch someone who is not watching intel. And now things started to very be complicated. Your main fleet to move all the way through bubbles to your scouts. I don't care (no one really cares) about this poor guy who was tackled, it's just tool to spawn bigger fight with locales. Other tool is ESS, but as long as you can put it on anomaly, locales can safely scope money before you move your main gang to system. These 2 tools (ESS and tackled ship) are the only things which can force them to defend thier systems. They can dock and wait until you move. They are safe.

This is not only small gangs, this is about eve.
Sorry , but nullsec should not be constant bubbles every 3-4 gates.

If you are not aware - putting large amount of objects on gate grid is prohibited - because this cause many issues.
Petitioning GM usually makes all of those objects removed - simply no one wants to bother GM each time he encounters 50 bubbles on gate.

I don't understand your point.

You can get fights now just fine, and the bubbles only serve to separate your scout tackle from your main gang. They create a nice obstacle in space where a fight might happen, where the defenders might counter attack. They serve as a purpose slowing down the reinforcements so the tackled pilot has a minute or three to kill the tacklers and get safe.

These are good things! I don't understand what the issue is?

NPCs shooting player owned structures/ deployables is a slippery slope to go down.

Mobile Warp Disruptors should be content generators, not tool for avoiding content.

Right now most of these are anchored in 0.0 on gates to prevent small pvp groups from moving fast trough space.

Devs gave us intreceptors but they won't survive long enough on rats fire when gang have to fly 200km+ to the gate and same distance on the other side of the gate.

My solution is simple: Mobile Warp Disruptors should use fuel, and has small fuelbay, for 1 max 2 hours. Or just explode after 1, 2 hours. Its fair for tactic pvp usage on grid, or setting up small camp.

You can still set up bubble on gate to your farming system, but not 50 like today.

What has Mobile Warp Disruptor to do with content? Today we have 2 oponents in sov war, Days with small local wars everywhere in galaxy are gone long ago. The only left content ganerate people from small gangs who roaming sov 0.0 systems, but current situation make this work really hard.

CCP changed rats agro (npc pirates should be more than happy that we want to kill thier Nemesis), added mjd. I hope devs don't chenged mind and this is still pvp game where small groups with high game skills can find something for theirself.

Fly Unsafe

Evasion is as legitimate in the sandbox as anything else.
Those bubbles are used for more than just giving sleepy ratters more buffer time to get away.

'you can just pop the bubbles' is a straw man argument and does nothing to address the fact that when you jump into a system and you are inside a bubble, you mathematically have zero chance of catching someone off guard with the SOLE exception of them being on grid with you..

Unless of course you are flying an interceptor or nullified T3.

Evasion implies some type of cleverness and that you are at risk in the first place.

Please, I'd like to know this reason why you would bubble a gate on a grid you are not present on (like for a camp) if not for the purpose of gaining an additional buffer of reaction time between seeing someone in local and getting safe.

So intys and nullified T3s should be the only mathematically possible roamers that can tackle someone reaping the rewards of being in null sec? Seems like the 'sandbox' just got awfully small.

tl; dr;

tl; dr; If you hit warp in a belt within ~5 seconds of someone jumping into system, there is mathematically no way you can be tackled and therefore, there is zero player-contributed risk in your activity.

I actually don't have any issue with the inability to tackle ratters if they are paying attention and putting in the same level of effort and attention that I do. My issue is with bubbles providing a huge modifier to the advantage, while taking zero risk, time, effort, or attention from the players it is protecting or the players tasked with defending the player in the belt/anom.

I would even go to say much of the stagnation currently experienced in null security/sov space is due to the fact that the landlord's of the space don't even need to provide any kind of protection for either their membership, or their tenants because through game mechanics such as the use of deployed bubbles on gates (and jump bridges and local-insta-perfect-intel chat too) the game is covering their six, providing them with enough crutches to walk from Jita to HED-GP without touching the ground..

They do nothing in the way of protecting sov.

No. Why don't you want to have 2 hours timer? You can still camp ships on poses with them, or setup small camp. All you need is fuel in cargo. I want to nerf ability to anchor hundreds forever lasting bubbles with zero effort.

If you never saw 100 bubbles on gate, or never experienced roaming in heavy bubbled pocket it doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. Anyway it is exploit, we can send petition to devs and they'll remove it, but its not the solution.

Bubbles used this way destroy content, why? Last time i checked 95% of sov 0.0 leave in peace, generating zero content for others, just making isks. WoW style playing. Most of the content in addition to wars generates small roaming groups. Unfortunately there is no reason to fight with us, you can just stay docked, smack on local and wait until we move somewhere else. Easiest way to force fight is catching some fancy isk printing machine.

HIC alts at lease have to pay a sub.

Industrialist/Miner/Ratter who wants to undertake their activity with some buffer to getting killed every time they venture out.

That sounds an awful lot like people who want the rewards of null, but who are unwilling to appropriately prepare for the risks those rewards are balanced against.

Hell, even in highsec, a 2 billion ratting ship is at a very high risk of death, it SHOULD need an escort or contingency in null IMO.