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Vaffel Junior
NorCorp Security
75
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Posted - 2011.11.19 16:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
I bet CCP has a plan for this....
now that there is nothing expensive to use isk on anymore..
Maby burn isk on buying plex on market and use them for gametime ?
Well... i guess many do allready |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
148
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Posted - 2011.11.19 16:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Biggest sink I can think of is:
If ship is destroyed as a result of you firing first (read: aggresses first) then insurance is voided.
But hate the idea of sink, would rather faucets were more tightly controlled/restricted. With ISK flowing as freely as it does, the sense of accomplishment when the last million for that upgrade to BS trickles in is gone and no amount of sinks can bring that feeling back ..
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Lexmana
Imperial Stout
58
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Posted - 2011.11.19 16:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tippia wrote: It's probably better to adjust the faucets rather than add sinks, since sinks have a tendency to hit unevenly and since people will just do whatever they can to avoid them.
So much better ... docking fees, parking fees (at station), high-security fees (for concord protection), gate jump fees (for gate gun protection) could serve double purposes.
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Morganta
Peripheral Madness
The Midget Mafia
348
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Posted - 2011.11.19 16:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
give me your extra monies and I promise to create vast amounts of salvage throughout new eden and keep Dodi ship builders in business
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Ayame Tokugawa
Black Salmon
1
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Posted - 2011.11.19 16:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
Strip clubs!
or
Paying for crew members that live on your active ships.
or
Casinos! |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
154
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Posted - 2011.11.19 16:48:00 -
[36] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote:War
Neat idea huh?
Unless you mean increasing the fee charged by Concord for war decs, discuss how war actually destroys ISK. War destroys material. War only destroys ISK if BPOs and other items only available for purchase from NPCs are destroyed (not captured) and then replaced. |
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.11.19 17:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
Transfer Fees (or Shipping and Handling Fees).
You send money to an alt character, then there is a transfer fee based upon distance, and perhaps standing differences (computer upgrades to avoid glitches).
You directly trade an item or items to another player, handlers are paid to exchange the item - you think a pod pilot will be lugging modules around?
Whereas a broker has a market marker in place for you, the transfer of an item or items bought or sold have a fee tacked onto the price (dock workers get paid or drones / robots require upkeep costs, etc.)
And then a "pack rat" fee when you keep excessive amounts of "stuff" lying around a station. (Station manager: "Sir, while 500 million pieces of Tritanium is good for nearly everything, you've had it lying around collecting space dust the past three months! These stations walls are not expanding any further you know!")
I would definitely be paying big bucks monthly for that last idea.  |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1557
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Posted - 2011.11.19 17:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
Malken wrote:only if you fly cheap crap and insure them and have no slkills for expensive stuff. No, no matter the cost of the ship, ships being destroyed are always ISK faucets (wellGǪ always up until Crucible, when it will become possible to lose a ship without creating ISK in the process).
GÇöGÇöGÇö
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Skex Relbore
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
52
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Posted - 2011.11.19 17:23:00 -
[39] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:The ISK entering the game is balanced by the minerals, loot modules, and LP rewards entering the game. As too much ISK enters circulation, player focus will shift toward other forms of production. This is known as "reaching an equilibrium point" to people who destroy your employment prospects and/or retirement funds on a daily basis.
This is the answer.
There is no need to worry about isk entering the system. It's a self balancing equation, as the isk supply increases relative to raw materials other activities become more lucrative and people shift their activities to compensate.
All this crying on and on about inflation are either idiots who don't understand how currency works (and how isk isn't really a currency anyway) or ISK rich players who want to protect the value of their asset by artificially limiting supply.
So the answer to the OP"s question is We don't need more isk sinks.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1558
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Posted - 2011.11.19 17:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Skex Relbore wrote:There is no need to worry about isk entering the system. It's a self balancing equation, as the isk supply increases relative to raw materials other activities become more lucrative and people shift their activities to compensate. GǪexcept that as history has shown, they don't, because it's not as self-balancing as that and because people are not willing to switch to other activities.
Most importantly, those other activities don't become more lucrative, because they suffer from limitations of scale that the ISK-generating activities don't quite adhere to. As a result, people rather flock to the activities that further inflates the ISK supply, since that's the only way to stay ahead of the curve.
Quote:All this crying on and on about inflation are either idiots who don't understand how currency works GǪsuch as CCP's own economist, who is worried about how the ISK influx is not matched by a corresponding increase in materials generation and production.
GÇöGÇöGÇö
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
GÇö Karath Piki-á |
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Amro One
One.
26
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Posted - 2011.11.19 17:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
I can be your ISK faucet. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
63
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Posted - 2011.11.19 17:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote:War
Neat idea huh?
Thats actually only reason why its still out there. To boost the economy afterwards.
Well that and "religious zealots". |
C DeLeon
Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys
HUN Reloaded
11
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Posted - 2011.11.19 17:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
Here is my idea:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=35569&find=unread
:D |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
172
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Posted - 2011.11.19 20:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:Or, better yet, remove all NPC sources of income making missioning dependent on the market for income. And what's going to happen when the entirety of the game's ISK gets used up by clone costs, CSPA charges, and skillbook purchases?
I'm surprised you can't make that feat of logic on your own. No isk faucets....no isk sinks?
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
46
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Posted - 2011.11.19 21:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
instant pvp arena once or twice a week. Also with NPCs that sell ships and modules that can only be used in the arena to make it balanced. There i just came up with a way to get a ton of subs and money for CCP. There is no reason not to have this. |
Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
2
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Posted - 2011.11.19 22:04:00 -
[46] - Quote
The reason we got to this point is because CCP is scared of people not using their new features. I'm talking about Wormholes and incursions. CCP were too scared to just offer people "construction blocks" for new items to trade: T3s, implants, capital modules. So they decided to put a "little" isk on it, sleeper trade goods into wormholes and straight up isk onto incursions.
ISK from those sources are massive compared to missions. Missions might still generate more isk overall because of the amount of people running them but incursions might not be too far behind. People are blitzing them faster and faster and the incursions last for ages even after the revenant spawns because they can delay killing it for quite a while. |
Skex Relbore
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
52
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Posted - 2011.11.19 22:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:There is no need to worry about isk entering the system. It's a self balancing equation, as the isk supply increases relative to raw materials other activities become more lucrative and people shift their activities to compensate. GǪexcept that as history has shown, they don't, because it's not as self-balancing as that and because people are not willing to switch to other activities.
uhuh once again if this were the case then why aren't prices increasing? Seriously if over supply of isk was such a problem then why don't Domi's cost 200 million isk?
If there really was an over supply of isk then prices would rise across the board. The fact that prices have not done so shows that there is no inflation and most certainly not any hyper-inflation. If anything the actual evidence has suggested a deflationary situation.
Obviously plenty of people are willing to switch to other activities or we would see those price increases I mentioned earlier.
Quote:
Most importantly, those other activities don't become more lucrative, because they suffer from limitations of scale that the ISK-generating activities don't quite adhere to. As a result, people rather flock to the activities that further inflates the ISK supply, since that's the only way to stay ahead of the curve.
You're just simply wrong.
You know why more people aren't out mining? Because there is already an over supply of minerals relative to isk. so it isn't worth most peoples time save on a massive semi-afk (or bot) basis. If mineral prices were to rise to the point where mining Veldspar equaled or surpassed what one could make running L4 missions then you can be damned certain you'd see a shift from missions to mining.
Quote:Quote:All this crying on and on about inflation are either idiots who don't understand how currency works GǪsuch as CCP's own economist, who is worried about how the ISK influx is not matched by a corresponding increase in materials generation and production.
Yes such as their own economist who's from what I've seen is a member of the fresh water supply side school of economic thought that's been crying about the threat of inflation in the real economy for years due to quantitative easing (creating money) and have been consistently wrong over said period.
Just your wording tells me you don't really understand whats going on. If the economic activity (all that stuff in the game economy other than farming isk) did not at least match the rate isk was coming into the economy then you'd see evidence of inflation. You don't ergo anyone who insists there is inflation is an idiot.
Evidence always trumps theory those who insist otherwise aren't operating in objective reality.
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David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
223
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Posted - 2011.11.19 22:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
use 1bil isk to pay the character transfer fees when selling toons
Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1562
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 22:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
Skex Relbore wrote:uhuh once again if this were the case then why aren't prices increasing? Hoarding instincts and loss aversion. Also, the prices of what, exactly? What are your indices?
Quote:Obviously plenty of people are willing to switch to other activities or we would see those price increases I mentioned earlier. GǪexcept that people have been quite vocal about not wanting to do so. Yes, some might, but a lot of people are so stuck doing the same thing and will seemingly prefer to quit the game rather than do something else. Or, put another way, plenty of people might consider switching, but is it enough?
Quote:You know why more people aren't out mining? Because there is already an over supply of minerals relative to isk. No, because there is an over-supply of minerals relative to production, which is what the worry is all about: not enough stuff is being produced, and not enough is being destroyed. They also don't mine because mining has become relegated to a second-tier source of said minerals. You know why more people aren't out running L3s? Because there are L4s.
Quote:If the economic activity (all that stuff in the game economy other than farming isk) did not at least match the rate isk was coming into the economy then you'd see evidence of inflation. GǪwhich you do, in spite of the mitigating factors of standard MMO hoarding. Idiot. 
GÇöGÇöGÇö
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Arugas Koken
Peregrine Guard
10
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Posted - 2011.11.19 23:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
Since establishments have been delayed, what about a gambling system on the CQ display with the house being an NPC.
There would finally be something to do in CQ and i guess it would be a substantial isk sink.
Blackjack, poker, slots etc. |
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Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
44
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Posted - 2011.11.19 23:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
docking tax based on shipsize (pods and frigs are free)
higher taxes on buying/selling/producing
higher contract tax (10k is silly)
increased office tax
On the other end; lower bounties and insurance.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
90
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Posted - 2011.11.19 23:21:00 -
[52] - Quote
Skex Relbore wrote:
uhuh once again if this were the case then why aren't prices increasing? Seriously if over supply of isk was such a problem then why don't Domi's cost 200 million isk?
If there really was an over supply of isk then prices would rise across the board. The fact that prices have not done so shows that there is no inflation and most certainly not any hyper-inflation. If anything the actual evidence has suggested a deflationary situation.
Obviously plenty of people are willing to switch to other activities or we would see those price increases I mentioned earlier.
This is not true. An increase in the monetary base does not always reflect in all prices at the same time. Nor does it cause prices to increase at an even rate, they can still bounce around.
The basic rules in an expanding monetary base environment are the same as any other time. Those things which have small supply and those things that are most necessary, tend to reflect the economic environment first and most drastically. One of the differences in Eve from the real world is that there is almost nothing that is necessary. That we see rising prices in some areas, and decreasing in other areas is no surprise. |
Kalicor Lightwind
Vigihan
Scelus Sceleris.
7
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Posted - 2011.11.19 23:31:00 -
[53] - Quote
Make production require ISK, maybe slightly reduce mineral cost. That way ship destruction would actually be an ISK sink :P |
Capn Orgasmo
The Stampede.
31
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Posted - 2011.11.19 23:56:00 -
[54] - Quote
Let people buy Secure containers that have expired at a set price of 500k
they then get the contents of said containers to keep for themselves.
Basically you gamble with what you buy |
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
35
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Posted - 2011.11.20 00:32:00 -
[55] - Quote
It's all talk.
There's no actual evidence that this is the case. No evidence of inflation (in fact, the price indexes tend to show deflation), and no actual numbers for the amount of ISK entering and leaving (and similar figures for the amounts of goods). Just speculation, and gossip.
Someone might like to run the numbers on the ISK vs material generated from mission running (and incursions). If you include LP on the material side of the balance sheet (because LP ends up as high value goods) then mission runners are probably pumping in goods to the economy as fast as ISK.
There seems to be a lot of ISK envy in these forums, and a lot of butt-hurt from plex prices, and people are starting to point fingers all over the place (mostly at the usual suspects). This whole thread reminds me of historical populations that have descended into mob mentality and started to blame all their woes on rumours of the unsavory activities of different groups : it's all the fault of the merchants, the 1%, or witches, or the gypsies, or the Jews. |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2011.11.20 00:38:00 -
[56] - Quote
Make Loyalty points buyable from LP store for isk. Suddenly you'll have a HUGE isk sink. |
Koronakesh
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
30
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Posted - 2011.11.20 00:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
Charging people to post on the forum would be a fine isk sink.
Amir al-Mu'minin of the Seekers of a Silent Paradise and Sr. Banker of EVE Online Hold'Em |
Shivus Tao
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
65
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Posted - 2011.11.20 00:51:00 -
[58] - Quote
The reason we haven't seen inflation is because most people in this game are misers with their spacewealth. And as easy as it is to compare prices and get the best deal, speculators in everything but plex are quashed. I too have seen nothing but deflation over my eve career.
It seems like the spectre of inflation has been looming over eve for years when if anything, prices have reduced relative to the increasing wealth. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
228
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Posted - 2011.11.20 00:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ho you want a nice good isk faucet??
That sounds good, make taxes to Concord from alliance benefits -every 5day- touch the excellent level of 15%
Why not 15%
Well, when you mission whatsoever in high sec, if you have nothing else to do of your jurney because of your personal life that no one around give a frack about, you can make about 1.2B you pay 11% taxes right?
In null, low, if you do more than 1.5B a day then you should pay 15% to concord because...there's no real reason but who need it?
Bounty's are high, plex value are high, level 5 are in low/null, why the hell should they pay less when they have hundred times better possibilities income than in high sec?
By the way, wy is in high sec the highest level of killed ships/pods???
If it's really the case, then who cares about null when nothing interesting happens there?
Rabble rabble rabble... |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
371
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Posted - 2011.11.20 05:54:00 -
[60] - Quote
The central design rule of ISK sinks - no matter how big or how onerous you make them, players will simply grind at the ISK faucets longer in order to stay ahead at their desired wealth level. Unless you hit the tipping point where you make it too onerous and suddenly get a mass exodus.
You also have to consider the effect of tacking fees onto everything when a new player comes into the game and only has 5000 ISK to their name. And if you say "anyone under 30 days gets a free pass", then people will just use throwaway alts to get past all of the new taxes and fees.
But since I'm an evil meanie...
- Double the broker fees in Jita CNAP 4-4 (base the surcharge on number of open orders)
- Charge a 0.01% fee of the market order's remaining value if you want to price change.
- Personal hangars with a (generous) size limit, or you can pay per month to have larger (better standings = cheaper)
- Ship hangars in stations with a (generous) size limit and you can pay per month to have larger
- Higher LP store ISK costs
- Higher manuf / research slot fees in station slots (with standings giving a discount)
Yeah, a lot of those are evil / dumb ideas. Far better to turn the ISK faucets down a bit. Replace up to 50% of the existing ISK with drops that can be converted into LP or sold to other players. At which point, the player market takes over and self-regulates it (too many people doing XYZ? less reward per hour until enough people stop doing XYZ). |
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