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Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
493
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 21:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote: Yeah because the moment they released capitals and supercapitals everyone had them that instant and were using them at such a rate that it had the impact on the game that they do today or even close for that matter :colbert:
Ok, so here's the problem: your recollections don't really match reality. Back before jump drives, there were no outposts. In 0.0, each region had three stations: two factories, one refinery. If you wanted to build locally, you had to mine minerals, move them to the refinery, refine, then move to the factory.
You had to do this all in an iteron because hulks and freighters did not exist.
Most regions have the refinery nowhere near the factory. Querious didn't. You'd be moving small amounts of minerals tons of jumps. And you're claiming people didn't just mine the ABC (which were hugely valuble), they mined the veld and stuff as well and produced locally. But people who did that were idiots, even back then. ABC was worth far, far more than veld, not least because you could produce infinite trit in empire with NPC seeded shuttles. So if you wanted to build something, you'd mine ABC, bring the minerals to empire in an iteron (billions fits in one iteron), bring those minerals to yulai, and sell them.
Then for a battleship or anything big you'd just fly the stupid thing back. But if you really wanted to build locally, you'd bring in an iteron of passive targeters, built from the infinite shuttle trit, and then refine that for gadzooks of trit in your conquerable refinery. You'd then putter your iteron back and forth 7 jumps to the factory station. Now, given that you're stuck with an iteron, and are moving less than one battleship's worth of minerals at a time, you're far better off just flying prebuilt battleships from Yulai (brought in on the superhighways to your jumpoff point). You're only going to be building cruisers or below with this god-awful backwards setup that was only fun at the time because it was novel - you were exploring a new type of gameplay and it was interesting. Novelty wears off.
I would suggest you actually sit down with a list of what got patched in when and figure out which of your recollections simply couldn't have happened. This pre-jumpdrive golden age of 0.0 simply didn't exist, except the novelty that you remember. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
493
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 21:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
The Ironfist wrote:
It has 30% time as well right now. So not sure on how much of that is fat-fingered. And 5% for 60b would be a really bad deal. I'd call it pointless.
They've said the 30% mineral off is a bug (amarr stations right now have 30% time off and are supposed to retain that bonus in crius). The 5% is direct from the devblog, and it's the highest ME off you can get from 0.0 (each manufacturing slot upgrade becomes a 1% me off upgrade, and an amarr can fit the most at 5). |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
461
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 22:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote: Yeah because the moment they released capitals and supercapitals everyone had them that instant and were using them at such a rate that it had the impact on the game that they do today or even close for that matter :colbert:
Ok, so here's the problem: your recollections don't really match reality. Back before jump drives, there were no outposts. In 0.0, each region had three stations: two factories, one refinery. If you wanted to build locally, you had to mine minerals, move them to the refinery, refine, then move to the factory. You had to do this all in an iteron because hulks and freighters did not exist. Most regions have the refinery nowhere near the factory. Querious didn't. You'd be moving small amounts of minerals tons of jumps. And you're claiming people didn't just mine the ABC (which were hugely valuble), they mined the veld and stuff as well and produced locally. But people who did that were idiots, even back then. ABC was worth far, far more than veld, not least because you could produce infinite trit in empire with NPC seeded shuttles. So if you wanted to build something, you'd mine ABC, bring the minerals to empire in an iteron (billions fits in one iteron), bring those minerals to yulai, and sell them. Then for a battleship or anything big you'd just fly the stupid thing back. But if you really wanted to build locally, you'd bring in an iteron of passive targeters, built from the infinite shuttle trit, and then refine that for gadzooks of trit in your conquerable refinery. You'd then putter your iteron back and forth 7 jumps to the factory station. Now, given that you're stuck with an iteron, and are moving less than one battleship's worth of minerals at a time, you're far better off just flying prebuilt battleships from Yulai (brought in on the superhighways to your jumpoff point). You're only going to be building cruisers or below with this god-awful backwards setup that was only fun at the time because it was novel - you were exploring a new type of gameplay and it was interesting. Novelty wears off. I would suggest you actually sit down with a list of what got patched in when and figure out which of your recollections simply couldn't have happened. This pre-jumpdrive golden age of 0.0 simply didn't exist, except the novelty that you remember.
So you are arguing about semantics now? I mean now that we have all these outpost and all these other industrial ships that can move much higher volumes than a Iteron what's the problem? @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
The Ironfist
Nordgoetter Negative Waves
23
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 22:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:The Ironfist wrote:
It has 30% time as well right now. So not sure on how much of that is fat-fingered. And 5% for 60b would be a really bad deal. I'd call it pointless.
They've said the 30% mineral off is a bug (amarr stations right now have 30% time off and are supposed to retain that bonus in crius). The 5% is direct from the devblog, and it's the highest ME off you can get from 0.0 (each manufacturing slot upgrade becomes a 1% me off upgrade, and an amarr can fit the most at 5).
If thats true whoever is running CCP's dev teams is a moron. Because 5% for 60b is just plain bad and does nothing to make eve at least somewhat interesting again. Then again CCP has been sh!t for years so no surprise there. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
493
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 22:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote: So you are arguing about semantics now? I mean now that we have all these outpost and all these other industrial ships that can move much higher volumes than a Iteron what's the problem?
Your post begins with your recollection of how great yesteryear was and all of the great things that happened. My point is basically that you remember it completely incorrectly, and that the glories of pre-Cold War EVE are not a thing to use as inspiration.
I've always advocated for greater self-sufficiency for 0.0 and I greatly dislike the bipolar cold war nature of current 0.0, where a conflict anywhere is a conflict with everyone. The former we're actually getting somewhat in this patch and I hope CCP continues iterating on it. The latter is a hard problem that is not advanced by pointing to a glorious past that never happened. If you want to argue we should remove jump drives, then you've got to do it by saying how it will make today better tomorrow, not by saying weren't things great as I recall them when your recollection is faulty. |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
461
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 22:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote: So you are arguing about semantics now? I mean now that we have all these outpost and all these other industrial ships that can move much higher volumes than a Iteron what's the problem?
Your post begins with your recollection of how great yesteryear was and all of the great things that happened. My point is basically that you remember it completely incorrectly, and that the glories of pre-Cold War EVE are not a thing to use as inspiration. I've always advocated for greater self-sufficiency for 0.0 and I greatly dislike the bipolar cold war nature of current 0.0, where a conflict anywhere is a conflict with everyone. The former we're actually getting somewhat in this patch and I hope CCP continues iterating on it. The latter is a hard problem that is not advanced by pointing to a glorious past that never happened. If you want to argue we should remove jump drives, then you've got to do it by saying how it will make today better tomorrow, not by saying weren't things great as I recall them when your recollection is faulty.
Ill concede that perhaps my timeline might be blurred together. But ultimately a more inclusive nullsec with more conflict drivers is for the best. Currently both of our alliances are part of the problem. I honestly can't see any changes CCP can make that would shake up nullsec enough. Other than changing jumpdrives jumpbridges to like I suggest other than adding a ton of new space. But im afraid that would only be a temporary stopgap. @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
Allison A'vani
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
139
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 22:32:00 -
[37] - Quote
The problem is the same reason that we use large cargo ships for moving goods between China and the United States. The economy is much larger now than it was then. This is besides the fact that carriers have been in the game since Exodus: Red Moon Rising which was released in December 16, 2005 and POSes were only added to the game a year beforehand in the Exodus expansion which was released November 17, 2004. There have only been 2 years in all of EvE when 0.0 ever existed without jump capable ships being in the game. 0.0 was released in the Castor expansion December 18, 2003. Your main Mainfred Sideous was created 2005/12/17 which means you have never once, other than maybe by a few hours, unless you had a character before Manfred Sideous, played eve before Carriers were available in the game.
Freighters and Jump Freighters were added in the Trinity expansion December 5, 2007. EvE was a major pain in the ass back then. Regardless of how rose tinted your shades. As someone who started in 2009, part of alliances that did not have the isk to afford a JF (especially back when T2 prices were so insanely expensive during the height of OTEC), doing alliance OPs to escort freighters and Orcas through low-sec into null sucks. It is not fun, it is not enjoyable, it is not "cool," it sucks.
That does not lower the barrier to entry into 0.0 either, as you need a massive fleet to protect your freighter/JF with your proposed changes. As soon as you are spotted on the out-gate from high-sec to low sec a fleet will be forming to kill or suicide gank that freighter going gate to gate through lowsec.
This concept of yours may have worked back 250k less subs ago, but EvE hit 500k subs back in 2013. The player base is much larger and more diverse. Besides, some of us have jobs to do IRL. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
493
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 22:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote: Ill concede that perhaps my timeline might be blurred together. But ultimately a more inclusive nullsec with more conflict drivers is for the best. Currently both of our alliances are part of the problem. I honestly can't see any changes CCP can make that would shake up nullsec enough. Other than changing jumpdrives jumpbridges to like I suggest other than adding a ton of new space. But im afraid that would only be a temporary stopgap.
Yeah, agreed: bipolar eve is boring and a great staring contest between the East/West Gap with their finger on the massive escalation button is not exactly the sort of compelling gameplay that's going to keep people playing eve. I would love to go back to the 2007 sort of map where every power was regional at best. I'm just not sure how you do it that we don't all immediately exploit the **** out of, or that just makes it generally miserable to be in 0.0 but doesn't drive conflict and just speeds up the content creators getting tired and unsubbing.
The entirely new space with constructable stargates is a thing to rekindle that nobody knows what's going on everyone against everyone landrush again but that's years out and without something shaking up EVE now there won't be many people around then to build them. But part of it is just that everyone is so much more sophisticated than they used to be: you take all of the half-decade or more vets from current EVE and dump them into 2006-2007 and you'll see things get homoginized pretty quickly. We all know how best to run most aspects of an 0.0 alliance or an 0.0 war.
In 2006 everyone was basically an amateur at the 0.0 game and a lot of the fun was just figuring out how best to play the game: the clash of the BoB ideal of quality vs. the Goonswarm idea of quantity is just one of the examples. There was also "well what if we build an industrial alliance" ASCN vs the purely militaristic BoB. Now, we all know the answers and relative merits of those and the competition is mostly about execution of the basic strategies with much less development of the basic theories.
Mudflation is also something of a culprit: back when jump drives were well out of most people's reach an alliance could maintain its lifeline, but the average person was not making a habit of shopping in jita. Now, shopping in jita is about as easy as shopping on Amazon for me: it just shows up a day or two later in my home. And that's not even (mostly) mechanics changes: that's just people figuring out exactly how best to run a shipping service.
I'm not sure there's any good way to get that back short of a complete Chaos Reigns redo of the basic underpinnings of how null works thats so drastic most of our current experience doesn't really apply. |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
461
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 22:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
Allison A'vani wrote:
Freighters and Jump Freighters were added in the Trinity expansion December 5, 2007. EvE was a major pain in the ass back then. Regardless of how rose tinted your shades. As someone who started in 2009, part of alliances that did not have the isk to afford a JF (especially back when T2 prices were so insanely expensive during the height of OTEC), doing alliance OPs to escort freighters and Orcas through low-sec into null sucks. It is not fun, it is not enjoyable, it is not "cool," it sucks.
T2 has been cheap since like 2007. I remember 80mil isk for a covert ops cloak 2. 15mil for 1 T2 large gun. Mods are so cheap now its laughable. Yeah freighter ops aren't a fun thing to do everyday. That's why you would change things so more can be done locally negating the need of freighter ops or at least limiting the need for them.
Allison A'vani wrote: That does not lower the barrier to entry into 0.0 either, as you need a massive fleet to protect your freighter/JF with your proposed changes. As soon as you are spotted on the out-gate from high-sec to low sec a fleet will be forming to kill or suicide gank that freighter going gate to gate through lowsec.
Hahahahaha talk about barrier for entry. You need 1500 man capable fleets as we stand to own sov in Nullsec because if you don't and CFC or N3/PL affix there gaze at you you are done. Its as simple as that. So the barrier of entry of a 100 dudes or so to move a freighter isn't bad. Especially since ill repeat you would change as much as possible to make doing things locally as in "not bringing everything in via empire" limiting the need for freighter ops.
Allison A'vani wrote:This concept of yours may have worked back 250k less subs ago, but EvE hit 500k subs back in 2013. The player base is much larger and more diverse. Besides, some of us have jobs to do IRL. This concept scales across any size so uh yea.
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
493
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 22:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
To be honest jump ships always seemed backwards to me: it would make more sense that the giant lumbering siege warships would have to be the ones to slowly waddle towards combat and waddle out while the smaller ships could jump much farther distances much faster. Instead, our giant lumbering siege ships blink into combat and out while our smaller ships have to take the long slow route (or at least did until every fc finally got their own titan alt).
It would be much less problematic for a small border war that doesn't want to escalate into the next galactic war if goonfleet or PL could only cyno in their subcap fleet but not their capital fleet into the battle instead of the other way around. |
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Allison A'vani
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
139
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 00:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
I can understand where you are coming from on all your points Manny, I guess I just don't think that is fun. It really just sounds like boring work to me. I might agree with things like having constellation wide solv with constellation wide cyno jamers, but essentially making everything prohibitively more expensive or more of a pain to move just sounds like bad game design to me.
BTW when I started in 2009 a T2 ship was an extremely expensive investment that I would have never spent the money on, even if I had the proper skills to fly it. All your proposals are fine in the world view where you can freely replace what ever you want, but for those who do not have mountainous isk reserves, t2 cruisers were as far away a pipe dream as owning a capital. Even at current prices, my Rhea is worth more isk than I went through my first three years in the game combined (2009, 2010 and 2011).
Furthermore, if these kind of changes went into effect, what reason is there to bother living in 0.0 at all other than to have your name on the map? You make more isk in WH, and in terms of ISK per Effort you would be better off in Low Sec or High Sec. Your changes basically just sound like you want all of New Eden to be WH space. |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
461
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 00:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
Allison A'vani wrote:I can understand where you are coming from on all your points Manny, I guess I just don't think that is fun. It really just sounds like boring work to me. I might agree with things like having constellation wide solv with constellation wide cyno jamers, but essentially making everything prohibitively more expensive or more of a pain to move just sounds like bad game design to me.
BTW when I started in 2009 a T2 ship was an extremely expensive investment that I would have never spent the money on, even if I had the proper skills to fly it. All your proposals are fine in the world view where you can freely replace what ever you want, but for those who do not have mountainous isk reserves, t2 cruisers were as far away a pipe dream as owning a capital. Even at current prices, my Rhea is worth more isk than I went through my first three years in the game combined (2009, 2010 and 2011).
Furthermore, if these kind of changes went into effect, what reason is there to bother living in 0.0 at all other than to have your name on the map? You make more isk in WH, and in terms of ISK per Effort you would be better off in Low Sec or High Sec. Your changes basically just sound like you want all of New Eden to be WH space.
Some people like to build castles. Others just want to watch the world burn
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1137
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 01:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:To be honest jump ships always seemed backwards to me: it would make more sense that the giant lumbering siege warships would have to be the ones to slowly waddle towards combat and waddle out while the smaller ships could jump much farther distances much faster. Instead, our giant lumbering siege ships blink into combat and out while our smaller ships have to take the long slow route (or at least did until every fc finally got their own titan alt).
It would be much less problematic for a small border war that doesn't want to escalate into the next galactic war if goonfleet or PL could only cyno in their subcap fleet but not their capital fleet into the battle instead of the other way around.
7 minutes across the universe sure is kind of stupid for a ship like an archon when an interceptor need an hour. |
christmascaveman
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
47
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 04:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jump bridges and jump drives provide enough force projection that large entities can move entire fleets across half of eve for a defense fleet. If there is a POS times at 0800 eve in the deklein and a post timer at 1000 eve in period basis, its possible for the entire coalition to be at both timers. If someone deploys to the other side of eve, you can't start a second front and try to take their home region because they are able cover timers in different regions. |
Anthar Thebess
551
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 06:49:00 -
[45] - Quote
+1 from me. I don't agree in most terms, but for sure. Something have to be done.
Sorry but EVE becomes boring. Hotdrops, capitals , supers everywhere.
I own 4 capital characters - but this is wrong way :/ Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution
292
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 10:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote: So you are arguing about semantics now? I mean now that we have all these outpost and all these other industrial ships that can move much higher volumes than a Iteron what's the problem?
Your post begins with your recollection of how great yesteryear was and all of the great things that happened. My point is basically that you remember it completely incorrectly, and that the glories of pre-Cold War EVE are not a thing to use as inspiration. I've always advocated for greater self-sufficiency for 0.0 and I greatly dislike the bipolar cold war nature of current 0.0, where a conflict anywhere is a conflict with everyone. The former we're actually getting somewhat in this patch and I hope CCP continues iterating on it. The latter is a hard problem that is not advanced by pointing to a glorious past that never happened. If you want to argue we should remove jump drives, then you've got to do it by saying how it will make today better tomorrow, not by saying weren't things great as I recall them when your recollection is faulty. Ill concede that perhaps my timeline might be blurred together. But ultimately a more inclusive nullsec with more conflict drivers is for the best. Currently both of our alliances are part of the problem. I honestly can't see any changes CCP can make that would shake up nullsec enough. Other than changing jumpdrives jumpbridges to like I suggest other than adding a ton of new space. But im afraid that would only be a temporary stopgap.
CCP could remove sov altogether, or at least from a very significant percentage of null.
Don't Panic.
|
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
606
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 10:50:00 -
[47] - Quote
Speedkermit Damo wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote: So you are arguing about semantics now? I mean now that we have all these outpost and all these other industrial ships that can move much higher volumes than a Iteron what's the problem?
Your post begins with your recollection of how great yesteryear was and all of the great things that happened. My point is basically that you remember it completely incorrectly, and that the glories of pre-Cold War EVE are not a thing to use as inspiration. I've always advocated for greater self-sufficiency for 0.0 and I greatly dislike the bipolar cold war nature of current 0.0, where a conflict anywhere is a conflict with everyone. The former we're actually getting somewhat in this patch and I hope CCP continues iterating on it. The latter is a hard problem that is not advanced by pointing to a glorious past that never happened. If you want to argue we should remove jump drives, then you've got to do it by saying how it will make today better tomorrow, not by saying weren't things great as I recall them when your recollection is faulty. Ill concede that perhaps my timeline might be blurred together. But ultimately a more inclusive nullsec with more conflict drivers is for the best. Currently both of our alliances are part of the problem. I honestly can't see any changes CCP can make that would shake up nullsec enough. Other than changing jumpdrives jumpbridges to like I suggest other than adding a ton of new space. But im afraid that would only be a temporary stopgap. CCP could remove sov altogether, or at least from a very significant percentage of null.
That. Of course you just crush any small entity that takes a "claim" on a system and cultivates it. However, if you continue doing that, you should ask yourself why you complain about lack of activity and conflict in Sov 00 to begin with and why you constantly post this kind of threads. On the other hand, if there is no sov as we know it, big blocks lose a lot of control over space and especially space they don't use. This allows other people and entities to get a foothold deep inside their territory and spark off conflicts, without the need to directly infiltrate an alliance first and rot it from within (which can be done in addition to make the assault all the more effective). No sov as we know it forces encourages people to own less space, but to cultivate that space to their full potential in order to use fancy structures, bonuses and modules. And it allows more people to do things in Sov 00, who don't want to be part of a big block.
But in the end, and as so many people tout day in day out: EVE is just a game; and as in real-life, a situation with many possibilities and lots of choice always and inevitably boils down to only 2 remainders. Black and White. And since humans, and especially EVE players, don't want to change their mentality, because it's difficult, whatever change to mechanics and features are introduced, it will always end back in the initial situation. IT is even surprisingly that we have had so many power blocks for such a long time. If I remember right, it was around 8 in 2011/12, down to 6 in 2012, down to 4 in 2013, down to 3 in 2013/2014 and now down to 2.
Go figure... |
Anthar Thebess
554
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 11:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
Look at current map. There is nothing more than CFC and NCPL. *
* Provi is left to farm some kills, the same reason for Brave sov.
Power projection, and the ability to relocate on the other side of the map all your forces < 1h makes the eve nullsec one big nonsense.
Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3645
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 12:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
There are literally no redeeming qualities to your post whatsoever, everything from "let's remove jump drives but not ACTUALLY remove them" to "let's give people a way to disable hub upgrades for a day at a time within a fifteen minute window, yeah THAT won't get abused in odd timezones at all with no recourse whatsoever" just screams "Let's make the game so awful and unfun that half of nullsec quits."
**** needs changing, I'm happy to admit that, but goddamn am I glad you have no involvement in it.
Manfred Sideous wrote:Some people like to build castles. Others just want to watch the world burn
Least you admit it. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3646
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 12:58:00 -
[50] - Quote
I think the most offensive part of your whole idea is actually, believe it or not, that NPC trader thing. It's like you remembered at the last minute that regional resources are a thing and can create interesting choices and options but decided that, rather than seek a way to keep those interactions player-based (because doing so would require scrapping much of the rest of your plan) that you'd just throw in this blatant, ridiculous bandaid instead. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
812
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 13:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
One thing that people don't seem to understand is this (cold war coalitions) is a natural progression and given enough time would probably self-regulate. Now, I'm not suggesting that it should be given enough time to self-regulate, just that it probably would. Stability provides profitability. Warfare costs... a lot!
The problem with most of the "lets fix sov nullsec" ideas is when you boil it down it hurts the little guy just as much as the big coalitions and in most cases the big coalitions could mitigate whatever the changes are but the little guys couldn't.
There's also the issue of screwing those who are "winning" just because people are complaining about it. How would you like it if you were winning at a computer game and just because others didn't like it the game provider changed the game so you weren't. Not because you'd actually done anything wrong, just because there wasn't currently anyone to challenge you and a few people whined about it.
Well, in this situation there is someone to challenge. In an all out war between N3/PL and CFC the outcome is far from predetermined. But... they don't seem to want all out war, presumably because it would threaten the empires that they've built. Well, not until one side thinks they can pretty much guarantee squashing the other, perhaps.
Here's a question for you: If everyone who's sick of sov nullsec joined Provi or HERO, would it be enough bodies to threaten CFC or N3/PL? What about if this happened and Provi and HERO joined together?
Now, I'm not saying change isn't needed because I think it is but only if it's fair and doesn't unduly penalise those that have built up empires because they don't deserve to have their efforts squashed just because some people complain on the forums. |
Dhaq
Anonymous Posters
9
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 13:39:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:Here's a question for you: If everyone who's sick of sov nullsec joined Provi or HERO, would it be enough bodies to threaten CFC or N3/PL? What about if this happened and Provi and HERO joined together?.
For a lot of people I think the problem is having to be part of a mega entity, more so than who those entities are. So everyone joining Provi or HERO would just be more of the same.
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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
813
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 14:16:00 -
[53] - Quote
Dhaq wrote:Tchulen wrote:Here's a question for you: If everyone who's sick of sov nullsec joined Provi or HERO, would it be enough bodies to threaten CFC or N3/PL? What about if this happened and Provi and HERO joined together?. For a lot of people I think the problem is having to be part of a mega entity, more so than who those entities are. So everyone joining Provi or HERO would just be more of the same. Yes, and that is a problem. Whilst one can argue (and I have) that this is a natural progression and that if you want to play in the big leagues you have to either grow into it or join one of the teams already in it, I can agree that it would be better if there was room for the smaller players.
So, there are a number of potential avenues to consider, some of which are:
1) Expand Sov Space - This is my favorite. If there was new space with significantly larger distances between stars that spread out from the outer boundaries of current Sov space it might alleviate the issue. The closer you are to Empire the easier it is to travel. The further out you go the less impact your jump drive has. Then shift nearly all the good moons further out making that the desirable space. It would massively increase the time for a fleet to get from one side of the map to the other. It would also mean that a lot of the space closer to Empire would be freed up as the current 2 massive coalitions took the more profitable space further out meaning that there would (hopefully) be space for smaller entities to take due to the distance issues making the big coalitions let go of the less profitable space. It would also mean that the better space you have the more pain in the backside it is to get to highsec and back. This is all off the top of my head so there are probably holes in it.
2) Reduce current sov holding through mechanics changes - This is rather intrusive and would likely garner complaint from the two main power blocs. Lots of potentials for this have been suggested on this forum and most have been soundly shot down.
3) Remove or massively reduce jump capability to enlarge the EVE galaxy by increasing travel times by a large factor - I'm pretty sure this isn't going to happen as it has WAY to many people against it, understandably.
It sure is a thorny subject though.
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SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
87
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Posted - 2014.07.03 15:22:00 -
[54] - Quote
Hm, you know, with the new Region and/or Regions opening up in hopefully near future expansions, we might actually start to see some answers to a lot of these concerns. Its possible CCP might even give us the cake and let us eat it too. Current regions/sov mechanics may be left as-is, and who knows what possibilities will be open with the new region.
Perhaps they will be set up in a way that doesn't support projection, or allows for independant self-contained sustenance. We shall see. Hopefully sooner rather than later. |
Allison A'vani
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
139
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Posted - 2014.07.03 15:41:00 -
[55] - Quote
Looking back through this thread, I think you might be happier creating and leading a WH corp Manny. Just food for thought. |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
471
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Posted - 2014.07.03 15:59:00 -
[56] - Quote
mynnna wrote:There are literally no redeeming qualities to your post whatsoever, everything from "let's remove jump drives but not ACTUALLY remove them" to "let's give people a way to disable hub upgrades for a day at a time within a fifteen minute window, yeah THAT won't get abused in odd timezones at all with no recourse whatsoever" just screams "Let's make the game so awful and unfun that half of nullsec quits." **** needs changing, I'm happy to admit that, but goddamn am I glad you have no involvement in it. Manfred Sideous wrote:Some people like to build castles. Others just want to watch the world burn Least you admit it.
I see you can throw stones well but in you're superior mind do you actually have any real ideas that bring us to a endstate of revitalizing nullsec and deals with the power projection problem? Or are you just a naysayer with insults?
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
471
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Posted - 2014.07.03 16:00:00 -
[57] - Quote
Allison A'vani wrote:Looking back through this thread, I think you might be happier creating and leading a WH corp Manny. Just food for thought.
I am quite happy where I am. How about you go run and fetch a shut the hell up with your jump freighter ok. Thanks great talk. @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
4692
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Posted - 2014.07.03 16:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote: also there has never been a time when jump-capable ships did not exist and freighters did. i don't know if people used logistics dreads, but I sure would have.
Yes, they did. Revelations with lows full of expanded cargoholds used to be a thing. A hilarious thing. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
471
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Posted - 2014.07.03 16:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
The fact remains that nullsec as it stands is broken and has been for some time. I really think it would be cool to see a more diverse nullsec. I mean N3/PL control over 1500 systems and 500 stations and CFC controls a similar amount as well. Thats just dumb but we all are just playing with the tools and rules we are given. Everyone likes winning so in the end will exploit any advantage to improve chances of victory or victorious endstate. Real change needs to happen. @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
Scooter McCabe
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
425
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Posted - 2014.07.03 17:29:00 -
[60] - Quote
Allison A'vani wrote:Looking back through this thread, I think you might be happier creating and leading a WH corp Manny. Just food for thought.
Not empty quoting this. |
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