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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
682
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 22:45:00 -
[511] - Quote
All this obsession with putting timers on things. Speaking from a biased, empire haver perspective, I say put timers on jumps and bridges -- it hurts us way less than it does anyone else. If you want to perpetuate the status quo, adding timers to everything is the way to go. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
681
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 22:46:00 -
[512] - Quote
Dhaq wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: Theorethically interesting but need to be careful because that might make jumping into a capital fight suicide, and therefore reduce a lot the number of engagements.
How many capital fights do we have a year now? Does it really matter if they get reduced? It seems like the only reason they exists is to sit around 9-10 months out of the year, and simply deter smaller engagements from happening. For as much pain as it is going to cause, capitals (or at least supers), and insta-jumping half-way across the universe need to be head-shot and taken out of the equation. There is simply no way to allow them to be used as it currently stands and have any type of productive environment. Those that amassed the most of these wonderful massively unbalanced ships first have won the game.
So when you create Eve 2 please exclude them but were all playing Eve 1 and are stuck with our pandora's box. @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
681
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 22:54:00 -
[513] - Quote
Yroc Jannseen wrote:Words I think most of youre suggestions are great in a vacuum ultimately though I see them aiding bigger groups and handicapping smaller groups. Also nullsec logistics don't have to get harder with my changes they are just accomplished by a different means. You and most people are looking at the tether to Jita and thinking " How do I survive without being able to buy sell there and transport easily to where I live". The answer is we boost nullsec industry and local resource harvesting to such a point that you can be self - reliant without needing the tether to empire. Sure you might make a run into the city for some specialty items that you cant get in the local shops. But it takes more time to run into the city and you use more gas and have to fight traffic and pesky things like that. You dont have a express lane that just whisk you there and back. @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
684
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 22:58:00 -
[514] - Quote
Kyle Brutor wrote:Without going into too much detail into the problem of power projection itself, I'd like to introduce you to my simple concept to control it. This is simply a concept that I would be interested in hearing feedback on. I don't know whether it would be good or bad for the game but it wouldn't be as drastic as a change as some of the other ideas mentioned here.
Idea: all jump drive capable ships have a calibration amount that recharges kind of like capacitor does. The points of calibration are based upon how many light years the ship can jump. The exact numbers for capacity and recharge rate could be debated but an example would be that a ship could jump 50 light years and their calibration recharges at 10 light years per hour. (I don't know if those are even close to reasonable numbers, I just picked random ones.) Maybe even have skills that can increase the capacity and recharge rate as well. It would basically put a hard limit on to how far ships could jump within a certain time frame but also leave choices available. For instance, you may decide to jump into a fight but not have the calibration to jump out to even the nearest star system for at least 15 minutes. Moving across the galaxy would have to actually be a thing that takes a little bit of time and planning.
Can be gamed by rich/organized player groups who pony express via additional hulls or alts. @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
1895
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:02:00 -
[515] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote: Regional Trade NPC is created to exchange racial building materials for other racial building materials the exchange rate would be based off the market trading average. So if you want to trade Helium Isotopes for Hydrogen isotope and Helium is 1000 p/u and Hydrogen is 500 p/u you would receive 2 units of hydrogen. NPC Traders would be seeded initially in the conquerable stations in null sec and in a smattering of NPC Nullsec stations. There would be a station upgrade available that then could be added into player built stations. NPC Trader upgrades would be hackable to disable the service for a period of 8 hours or until someone unhacks the hack. One of the key selling points of Eve is the player driven economy. NPCs selling fuel as a convenience (even if npc prices are pegged to player markets) go completely against one of eve's chief distinguishing features. If NPCs sell fuel, why not ammunition and ships too?
Anyone that has off-racial towers or caps in a given region would be faced with a horrific logistical nightmare in your bold new vision of Eve. You quite evidently saw the logistical nightmare that ensued and came up with the brilliant idea of having NPCs fix it for you. Great. But if NPCs can fix one logistical nightmare, why don't we use them to fix other logistical nightmares (e.g. modules, ships, ammo, drones, etc.). NPC sell orders for everything!
Except that would leave you without chokepoints to camp for easy freighter kills. If everything is to be produced locally or imported, fuel should also be produced locally or imported. Don't half ass your changes, embrace them and all that they imply. |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
684
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:06:00 -
[516] - Quote
Querns wrote:I guess I don't get the whole "jump bridges must be neutered" thing floating around. Ever since jump bridges were limited to one per system, these travel corridors are very easy to interdict -- simply focus your efforts on the gates between two links. It's certainly more interdictable than a titan bridge, which can not only reach farther, but can utilize beacons to more covertly move pilots between systems (in that a cyno is not required, which is broadcast to everyone in the game.) Compare this to jump bridges, which, by and large, do not change their links, and are typically published publicly, or at least widely enough to make their existence common knowledge. Hell; you can even divine the destination of a jump bridge by getting within 2500 meters of it and right clicking, even if you are hostile to the jump bridge haver in question!
Certainly, jump bridges are an advantage, but their use today is a symptom of the sprawl required to maintain a nullsec empire today, not the cause. Case in point: we prefer to use wormholes for moving our troops over large distances, despite the fact that we have an expansive jump bridge network. The jump bridge network is too easy to disrupt to be a reliable troop transport mechanism, so we use an alternative.
Jumpbridges are a huge advantage and stifle small gang pvp. I know they are in large part why I stopped roaming. Whats the point of bringing a small gang around only to get blobbed. Ok so you take fast mobile ships but the large blob can cutoff your escape by taking ever expansive jumpbridges. Then you find you're small gang camped in and are forced to be annihilated or logoff in disgust. It happened so much that it changed roaming to the point now you have roaming fleets. The days of solo roaming or 5-10 guys are gone. @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
684
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:12:00 -
[517] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote: Regional Trade NPC is created to exchange racial building materials for other racial building materials the exchange rate would be based off the market trading average. So if you want to trade Helium Isotopes for Hydrogen isotope and Helium is 1000 p/u and Hydrogen is 500 p/u you would receive 2 units of hydrogen. NPC Traders would be seeded initially in the conquerable stations in null sec and in a smattering of NPC Nullsec stations. There would be a station upgrade available that then could be added into player built stations. NPC Trader upgrades would be hackable to disable the service for a period of 8 hours or until someone unhacks the hack. One of the key selling points of Eve is the player driven economy. NPCs selling fuel as a convenience (even if npc prices are pegged to player markets) go completely against one of eve's chief distinguishing features. If NPCs sell fuel, why not ammunition and ships too? Anyone that has off-racial towers or caps in a given region would be faced with a horrific logistical nightmare in your bold new vision of Eve. You quite evidently saw the logistical nightmare that ensued and came up with the brilliant idea of having NPCs fix it for you. Great. But if NPCs can fix one logistical nightmare, why don't we use them to fix other logistical nightmares (e.g. modules, ships, ammo, drones, etc.). NPC sell orders for everything! Except that would leave you without chokepoints to camp for easy freighter kills. If everything is to be produced locally or imported by gate, fuel should also be produced locally or imported by gate. Don't half ass your changes, embrace them and all that they imply.
NPCs wouldn't be selling anything. It would be a barter/exchange system with market averages setting the value of the item bartered. You couldn't exchange your loot for some topes or minerals. You could exchange locally mined resources for resources not available locally. So Helium for Hydrogen , Nitrogen , Oxygen Isotopes. Things like that. The exchange rate fluctuates daily based off what the gamewide market average is. So if your Helium is worth 1k p/u and the isotope you want to exchange for is 500 you would receive 2 units. HTH @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
930
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:14:00 -
[518] - Quote
And what impacts would this have on Low Sec which is arguably at much greater risk in terms of logistics than Nullsec is currently.
Should lowsec once again take a shot so Nullsec can untangle its rats nest of shittiness? |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
689
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:17:00 -
[519] - Quote
Doris VanGit wrote:Unfortunatally its been along time since i lived in Null, so i cant really comment in detail.
However, looking at some of the posts on here there are some interesting points being put across.
A few suggestions i would throw on the table are;
1. Remove the Titan bridge, afterall is this ship not powerful enough without putting a fleet of 200 ships straight on a POS. This means that peeps have to fly to the destination, which could lead to that fleet being attacked on route. May reduce a little lag as well. That way if you want BS on field straight away they use Black Ops with Capital support.
Or reduce the the number of ships to 20, and but a timer on the timer for bridge usage.
Will peeps really want to fly so far just to held some renters out? Will this change how the larger alliances conduct there wars? I dont know
2. Remove Supers and Titans from low sec. This means that smaller corps can have there fun as well, without being counter dropped by bigger more powerful alliances just because there are caps on the field. Also see 1, in regards to the Black Ops and caps in low sec. Therefore less Bat Phoneing and peeps may have to fight there own battles. If the cant fight them, there loose the space.
3. Think i have to agree with the passive income, that someone mentioned in an earlier reply. Remove the expensive moons and put them into mining sites. After all its the bigger alliances that control these and dont give the smaller alliances/corps a chance. Why should the bigger alliances have a free run to all the high end isk by doing a little work?
Just my 2 pennies worth
If you are going to remove the titan bridge then the jumpbridge has to go then so its fair. Because a Jumpbridge can send the same amount of people forward. Or Perhaps the titan bridge can only bridge people to the sun . @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
1895
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:18:00 -
[520] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote: NPCs wouldn't be selling anything. It would be a barter/exchange system with market averages setting the value of the item bartered. You couldn't exchange your loot for some topes or minerals. You could exchange locally mined resources for resources not available locally. So Helium for Hydrogen , Nitrogen , Oxygen Isotopes. Things like that. The exchange rate fluctuates daily based off what the gamewide market average is. So if your Helium is worth 1k p/u and the isotope you want to exchange for is 500 you would receive 2 units. HTH
You're still having NPCs run logistics for you, effectively having NPCs supply your market. That's just great. But if NPCs can run large volumes of fuel everywhere, why can't they run guns, ammo, modules, drones, or ships?
What your asking for is a nerf to logistics while simultaneously having NPCs fix one of the biggest logistical nightmares in Eve: fueling all of those off racial towers and caps in any given region.
NPCs delivering goods to your station is not a player driven economy. If your jump changes to Eve don't work without NPCs propping up every single station in null, your changes are crap. |
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Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
689
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:21:00 -
[521] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:And what impacts would this have on Low Sec which is arguably at much greater risk in terms of logistics than Nullsec is currently.
Should lowsec once again take a shot so Nullsec can untangle its rats nest of shittiness?
Those jumpfreighters can no longer just jump past lowsec from edge to edge. They have to pass through. Seems like a stealth boost to me. Because people will want to protect there JF's so you will see escorts that you can fight and kill or extort from. @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
930
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:25:00 -
[522] - Quote
Also if this is simply about limiting the power of Capitals and JF and bridges etc.
Why not just split all the regions in EVE into ranges that can not be jumped to or bridged to. Example. Tenal > Cobalt Edge.
Give Capitals the ability to jump gates, and the only way a capital fleet can go region to region is by jumping through that regional access gate.
So you can move about as normal (by todays standards) within any particular region. But moving Region to Region would require you to take gates and Super Carriers and Titans would not be able to bridge into, or jump inter regionally. Unless perhaps CCP gave us the capacity to create a unique player built gate that would facilitate Super Capitals jumping through it or something.
Manfred Sideous wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:And what impacts would this have on Low Sec which is arguably at much greater risk in terms of logistics than Nullsec is currently.
Should lowsec once again take a shot so Nullsec can untangle its rats nest of shittiness? Those jumpfreighters can no longer just jump past lowsec from edge to edge. They have to pass through. Seems like a stealth boost to me. Because people will want to protect there JF's so you will see escorts that you can fight and kill or extort from.
Ya that doesn't really impact LS in that capacity. You would just simply have people...as they do today, Staging in the first lowsec system outside of Highsec, with no way to actually remove those people from that space (unlike null where a starved alliance can and will likely lose access to that space etc.). Ultimately it would lead to a similar problem that Nullsec currently faces with the bigger entities pushing out the little guys.
As it is today a small corporation or alliance can be effective in Lowsec because JF's allow them access to the market, changing the mechanics of that simply means guys like PL who sit in Ammake will essentially dominate a entire regional access simply by sitting in Gulm or Houla. |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
689
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:29:00 -
[523] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote: NPCs wouldn't be selling anything. It would be a barter/exchange system with market averages setting the value of the item bartered. You couldn't exchange your loot for some topes or minerals. You could exchange locally mined resources for resources not available locally. So Helium for Hydrogen , Nitrogen , Oxygen Isotopes. Things like that. The exchange rate fluctuates daily based off what the gamewide market average is. So if your Helium is worth 1k p/u and the isotope you want to exchange for is 500 you would receive 2 units. HTH
You're still having NPCs run logistics for you, effectively having NPCs supply your market. That's just great. But if NPCs can run large volumes of fuel everywhere, why can't they run guns, ammo, modules, drones, or ships? What your asking for is a nerf to logistics while simultaneously having NPCs fix one of the biggest logistical nightmares in Eve: fueling all of those off racial towers and caps in any given region. NPCs delivering goods to your station is not a player driven economy. If your jump changes to Eve don't work without NPCs propping up every single station in null, your changes are crap.
NPCs aren't delivering anything. You are trading something that is deleted from the database in exchange for a item thats created in the database on a fair even and equal level. You have to obtain the original source item by mining it somewhere along the line. Or do you think villagers in minecraft are secretly out mining all those diamonds you are trading emeralds for. Also if you can point me to the villagers emerald stash they have acquired from all those trades it would be awesome. /sarcasm
So yeah the main thing you hear anytime you talk about nerfing power projection is making logistics harder unfun and zomg how people who do logistics are going to kill themselves (in game) or quit. So this is a fair and equitable way to achieve power projection nerf without burdening logistics people. I mean they will still make trips to export goods and to import goods but the amount should be way less thereby limiting their desire to kill themselves (in game) or quit. Also when they are making these trips they will have friends and comrades to help them along their way. @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
1895
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:30:00 -
[524] - Quote
Just to reiterate my point here, having NPCs magically run/"exchange" fuel to remote null outposts is a complete Non-starter.
Players should have to deliver those topes to your outposts, not NPCs. Player driven economy is important. You should probably rework your idea with that in mind. All those off-racial towers and caps? Players need to supply them and every part of the supply chain leading to them, not NPCs. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
1895
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:33:00 -
[525] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote: NPCs aren't delivering anything. You are trading something that is deleted from the database in exchange for a item thats created in the database on a fair even and equal level.
So NPCs are taking Helium sold in Amarr and making it available for exchange in VFK for locally mined nitrogen? Yeah, that's called NPC logistics and NPC delivery. If a player didn't bring those topes to VFK or wherever, then it's not a player driven economy, is it? |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
930
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:34:00 -
[526] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Just to reiterate my point here, having NPCs magically run/"exchange" fuel to remote null outposts is a complete Non-starter. Players should have to deliver those topes to your outposts, not NPCs. Player driven economy is important. You should probably rework your idea with that in mind. All those off-racial towers and caps? Players need to supply them and every part of the supply chain leading to them, not NPCs.
Having NPC's deliver goods does not limit the player driven market. It simply reduces player service opportunity. Organizations like Black Frog would likely get hit, but people would still buy and sell, create and destroy the same products as they do today.
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
1895
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:36:00 -
[527] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Just to reiterate my point here, having NPCs magically run/"exchange" fuel to remote null outposts is a complete Non-starter. Players should have to deliver those topes to your outposts, not NPCs. Player driven economy is important. You should probably rework your idea with that in mind. All those off-racial towers and caps? Players need to supply them and every part of the supply chain leading to them, not NPCs. Having NPC's deliver goods does not limit the player driven market. It simply reduces player service opportunity. Organizations like Black Frog would likely get hit, but people would still buy and sell, create and destroy the same products as they do today. So we're fine with NPCs magically echanging fuel between Amarr and some god forsaken null sec system, why can't those same NPCs exchange modules, ammo, and ships?
Bringing goods to market is as much a part of the market as selling them. You can't have a grocery store without the trucks to bring the groceries to market. |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
689
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:36:00 -
[528] - Quote
I'd like to ask does anyone think its reasonable that a single player with a jumpfreighter can just jump back and forth from nullsec to empire and buy literally anything from empire and bring it back. Does that seem like a immersive experience? I mean where do you live that Joe the Lorry driver goes off and supplies you and all your mates with what you need to live and survive from a single point. @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
1895
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:39:00 -
[529] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote:I'd like to ask does anyone think its reasonable that a single player with a jumpfreighter can just jump back and forth from nullsec to empire and buy literally anything from empire and bring it back. Does that seem like a immersive experience? I mean where do you live that Joe the Lorry driver goes off and supplies you and all your mates with what you need to live and survive from a single point. Is it more reasonable for an NPC to magically teleport Helium from Amarr to VFK and Nitrogen from VFK back to Amarr? That's what your "exchange" system amounts to, and it's a lot worse than the current jump freighter actually jumping their ship back and forth. |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
689
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:40:00 -
[530] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Just to reiterate my point here, having NPCs magically run/"exchange" fuel to remote null outposts is a complete Non-starter. Players should have to deliver those topes to your outposts, not NPCs. Player driven economy is important. You should probably rework your idea with that in mind. All those off-racial towers and caps? Players need to supply them and every part of the supply chain leading to them, not NPCs. Having NPC's deliver goods does not limit the player driven market. It simply reduces player service opportunity. Organizations like Black Frog would likely get hit, but people would still buy and sell, create and destroy the same products as they do today. So we're fine with NPCs magically echanging fuel between Amarr and some god forsaken null sec system, why can't those same NPCs exchange modules, ammo, and ships? Bringing goods to market is as much a part of the market as selling them. You can't have a grocery store without the trucks to bring the groceries to the store.
Because you can produce those T1 modules ships and ammo locally with locally sourced materials. Now when you get to the T2 ships and modules that where you would need the exchange because not all of those materials could be sourced locally but you can exchange your locally sourced T2 resources for foreign resource.
The only flaw in this is T3 because that only comes from WH. So the T3 specific ingredients to build T3 would have to be sourced from empire or by another means.
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
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Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
689
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:43:00 -
[531] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:I'd like to ask does anyone think its reasonable that a single player with a jumpfreighter can just jump back and forth from nullsec to empire and buy literally anything from empire and bring it back. Does that seem like a immersive experience? I mean where do you live that Joe the Lorry driver goes off and supplies you and all your mates with what you need to live and survive from a single point. Is it more reasonable for an NPC to magically teleport Helium from Amarr to VFK and Nitrogen from VFK back to Amarr? That's what your "exchange" system amounts to, and it's a lot worse than the current jump freighter actually jumping their ship back and forth.
Is this NPC going to transplant your war stocks and fuel and all the things you need to a foreign deployment zone like a jumpfreighter can and does? Is the NPC going to resupply you so you don't have to worry about attrition in a conflict zone like a jumpfreighter does? Or a jumpbridge network or a Titan bridge. @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
1895
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:44:00 -
[532] - Quote
Look, I don't know how else to say this: If your system requires NPCs to magically teleport Isotopes between all of the stations in Eve, then your system is bad. It goes against the very nature of Eve.
Go back and rework it without the magically isotope teleporting NPCs, please. |
Yroc Jannseen
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
46
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:51:00 -
[533] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote: NPCs wouldn't be selling anything. It would be a barter/exchange system with market averages setting the value of the item bartered. You couldn't exchange your loot for some topes or minerals. You could exchange locally mined resources for resources not available locally. So Helium for Hydrogen , Nitrogen , Oxygen Isotopes. Things like that. The exchange rate fluctuates daily based off what the gamewide market average is. So if your Helium is worth 1k p/u and the isotope you want to exchange for is 500 you would receive 2 units. HTH
So basically you are talk about cutting off null regions economically from the rest of the game but keeping the existing racial/geographic variances that exist in items.
So let's take something like Mercury, which basically doesn't exist in the west. If I'm now in the west my main/only way of obtaining this is "bartering" with NPC's. The price is based on a global average price. Well the only spot that Mercury is being sold/traded is in the East. What's to stop a group in the East from now driving up the price they are selling Mercury to each other, to the point it becomes 2 x Technetium/Caesium so they can now go and barter for double the tech/cae?
I guess they wouldn't bother because there would be no point in producing more than they need locally, because selling to the wider world would be prohibitively expensive/difficult |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
930
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:52:00 -
[534] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Just to reiterate my point here, having NPCs magically run/"exchange" fuel to remote null outposts is a complete Non-starter. Players should have to deliver those topes to your outposts, not NPCs. Player driven economy is important. You should probably rework your idea with that in mind. All those off-racial towers and caps? Players need to supply them and every part of the supply chain leading to them, not NPCs. Having NPC's deliver goods does not limit the player driven market. It simply reduces player service opportunity. Organizations like Black Frog would likely get hit, but people would still buy and sell, create and destroy the same products as they do today. So we're fine with NPCs magically echanging fuel between Amarr and some god forsaken null sec system, why can't those same NPCs exchange modules, ammo, and ships? Bringing goods to market is as much a part of the market as selling them. You can't have a grocery store without the trucks to bring the groceries to the store.
No I am fine with NPCs delivering goods to and from locations in EVE in exchange for some form of equalized commodity.
If I buy an Item from the market, the guy who put it on market still gets his ISK. If I sell an item on the market, the guy who buys it still pays me ISK.
The only thing being altered is how the item gets from point A to point B.
If JD's are reduced significantly in ability, then you will see a stark fall off in delivery services. Or an outrageous influx in pricing by players performing the service. Goods will no longer move from Jita to the far corners of space, because who the hell wants to jump 30 jumps to drop off some power converters to some dude in NS that probably kill you anyway.
If you remove the capacity for JF's to exist you must fill that void with a reliable alternative method for getting goods moved around the galaxy. Otherwise your precious player economy will fall apart. You can't just take access of product away from the largest consumers in the game and expect the economy to remain the same as it is today.
I think NPC trading should have been implemented long ago anyway. If I buy something from market I should have the following options.
Get it myself Pay another player to get it Or select an option to have it delivered by NPC over the course of X number of hours and/or days.
If I lose potential for the first 2 options, you better hope I can still get items, or I just won't play because seriously, have you ever tried moving freighters around with ****. Forget about losing your ship, try losing your mind from the sheer irritation that is going 10 jumps, let alone 20+ |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
689
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:53:00 -
[535] - Quote
Yroc Jannseen wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote: NPCs wouldn't be selling anything. It would be a barter/exchange system with market averages setting the value of the item bartered. You couldn't exchange your loot for some topes or minerals. You could exchange locally mined resources for resources not available locally. So Helium for Hydrogen , Nitrogen , Oxygen Isotopes. Things like that. The exchange rate fluctuates daily based off what the gamewide market average is. So if your Helium is worth 1k p/u and the isotope you want to exchange for is 500 you would receive 2 units. HTH So basically you are talk about cutting off null regions economically from the rest of the game but keeping the existing racial/geographic variances that exist in items. So let's take something like Mercury, which basically doesn't exist in the west. If I'm now in the west my main/only way of obtaining this is "bartering" with NPC's. The price is based on a global average price. Well the only spot that Mercury is being sold/traded is in the East. What's to stop a group in the East from now driving up the price they are selling Mercury to each other, to the point it becomes 2 x Technetium/Caesium so they can now go and barter for double the tech/cae? I guess they wouldn't bother because there would be no point in producing more than they need locally, because selling to the wider world would be prohibitively expensive/difficult
Except that empire and lowsec doesn't get trade NPC's so they will still need use it and buy it on the market.
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
1895
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:57:00 -
[536] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: No I am fine with NPCs delivering goods to and from locations in EVE in exchange for some form of equalized commodity.
You may be fine with NPCs magically teleporting Isotopes between all of the stations in Eve, I however am not. And I seriously doubt CCP will entertain the idea either.
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
1895
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Posted - 2014.07.09 00:07:00 -
[537] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: Get it myself Pay another player to get it Or select an option to have it delivered by NPC over the course of X number of hours and/or days.
If I lose potential for the first 2 options, you better hope I can still get items, or I just won't play because seriously, have you ever tried moving freighters around with ****. Forget about losing your ship, try losing your mind from the sheer irritation that is going 10 jumps, let alone 20+
So, we have NPCs providing un-interdictable isotope trade between all the stations of Eve. Wonderful. That's totally not worse than what we currently have. Hell, at least Jump Freighters actually die once in a blue moon.
Unless your NPCs go gate to gate in freighters, or cyno to cyno in jump freighters (where players can gank/interdict them), then the proposed system is MUCH worse than the current one.
You know, I never thought I'd have to explain why magical isotope teleporting NPCs are a bad idea, but there you have it. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
930
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Posted - 2014.07.09 00:11:00 -
[538] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: No I am fine with NPCs delivering goods to and from locations in EVE in exchange for some form of equalized commodity.
You may be fine with NPCs magically teleporting Isotopes between all of the stations in Eve, I however am not. And I seriously doubt CCP will entertain the idea either.
Ya but your argument against it is pretty irrational and devoid of any concrete reasoning. Yes delivery groups like Black Frog will see a large reduction in profitability. But they are not at the core of the economy, they are enablers of the economy. The economy doesn't fluctuate depending on what Black Frog does, the economy fluctuates depending on what players create, consume and destroy.
I am sure if the idea was fleshed out more than just NPC Trading and actually developed into a concrete system CCP would give it a look, heck lord knows we could use some more ISK sinks in this game.
PotatoOverdose wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: Get it myself Pay another player to get it Or select an option to have it delivered by NPC over the course of X number of hours and/or days.
If I lose potential for the first 2 options, you better hope I can still get items, or I just won't play because seriously, have you ever tried moving freighters around with ****. Forget about losing your ship, try losing your mind from the sheer irritation that is going 10 jumps, let alone 20+
So, we have NPCs providing un-interdictable isotope trade between all the stations of Eve. Wonderful. That's totally not worse than what we currently have. Hell, at least Jump Freighters actually die once in a blue moon. Unless your NPCs go gate to gate in freighters, or cyno to cyno in jump freighters (where players can gank/interdict them), then the proposed system is MUCH worse than the current one. You know, I never thought I'd have to explain why magical isotope teleporting NPCs are a bad idea, but there you have it.
Or you just allow them to deliver from buy orders making players stock the market as they currently do with sell orders, thus making NPCs only fill the role held by a very few individuals in EVE who already transport stuff around with impunity as is. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3228
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Posted - 2014.07.09 00:24:00 -
[539] - Quote
Removed some off topic posts. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
1895
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Posted - 2014.07.09 00:25:00 -
[540] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: Or you just allow them to deliver from buy orders making players stock the market as they currently do with sell orders, thus making NPCs only fill the role held by a very few individuals in EVE who already transport stuff around with impunity as is.
So....completely un-interdictable trade is still a go. Ok.....
Look, moving isotopes around with impunity is just as much a problem as moving ships or ammo around with impunity. It's still power projection. Getting fuel to your off-racial POS with absolute impunity makes holding and extracting wealth from your sov sprawl that much easier. Moving fuel with impunity allows you to more readily supply caps which are the subject of the proposed changes.
On the one hand, we say nerf the ability to move things with impunity. On the other, you make moving fuel even easier than it was before, allowing for many of the same excesses.
But NPCs moving goods with impunity will never happen. You know why? Look at how CCP reacted to freighters autopiloting to zero in Hi-sec. You really think CCP will let NPC freighters move topes around with impunity in Nullsec? |
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