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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Starden Arnolles
Phoibe Enterprises
18
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Posted - 2014.07.12 04:21:00 -
[211] - Quote
I fear the developers are confusing figuring out how to make their jobs easier with figuring out how to improve the game.
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Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Limited Expectations
0
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Posted - 2014.07.12 10:00:00 -
[212] - Quote
the EVE browser is, altrough crappy, a very usefull tool. alt-tabbing in a pvp situation to get a promo or view player kill history isn't an option i'd like.
Not to mention all the funny gif's and naked anime girls being linked in local chat.
How about fixing it, so instead a CCP-browser it would just be a i-frame (or whatever) of user's regular browser? That way all www features would work and it would be easy to maintain. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1356
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Posted - 2014.07.12 11:33:00 -
[213] - Quote
IGB ruins wormhole gameplay. Also remove POS from wormholes.
The Tears Must Flow |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
106
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Posted - 2014.07.12 19:47:00 -
[214] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:IGB ruins wormhole gameplay. Also remove POS from wormholes.
As a former WH resident, the IGB is a very valuable tool in wormholes. Please tell us how it ruins wormholes, and tell us exactly how many wormholes you've been in. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
1830
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Posted - 2014.07.12 22:10:00 -
[215] - Quote
IGB should be updated. It's still pretty buggy and problematic.
I don't know if they ever fixed the problem with it "hanging" after exiting the client. That used to prevent the patches from applying, until you manually killed process on it.
The IGB is part of EVE. And considering the fact that some folks are still pissed about the Jukebox, it should probably stay. But it should definitely be updated and improved.
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
495
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Posted - 2014.07.13 01:20:00 -
[216] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:IGB ruins wormhole gameplay. Also remove POS from wormholes. As a former WH resident, the IGB is a very valuable tool in wormholes. Please tell us how it ruins wormholes, and tell us exactly how many wormholes you've been in.
Roleplayers like to roleplay exploration. |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
106
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Posted - 2014.07.13 01:24:00 -
[217] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:IGB ruins wormhole gameplay. Also remove POS from wormholes. As a former WH resident, the IGB is a very valuable tool in wormholes. Please tell us how it ruins wormholes, and tell us exactly how many wormholes you've been in. Roleplayers like to roleplay exploration.
How is mapping the ever-changing routes in and out of your wormhole roleplay? Go read up on wormholes before attempting to astound us with your ignorance.
If that was the case, one might say your alliance was role-playing it's name... |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Ineluctable.
627
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Posted - 2014.07.13 06:38:00 -
[218] - Quote
I take it, EVE-cost, $RandomSearchEngineSite$, EVElopedia, Killboard-sites, Dscan tools, Market sites, etc. pp. are all accessible via CREST? |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
717
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Posted - 2014.07.13 07:23:00 -
[219] - Quote
While the IGB is quite outdated, it still serves a great purpose, if it's ever going to be removed, they better replace it with something that has a similar function, AKA a new IGB!
The IGB is a great tool in sharing information about the game & tools, it's also a wonderful tool to easely spread information about planned events and events that have occured, without filling up mailboxes with hundreds of mails!
While I agree that my newsblog is little compared to more estabilished news-sites, the fact you can call up various eve-related news-sites adds to the immersion of Eve, a great aspect.
Want to know more about that big BR-5 battle? Check out one of the big Eve news-sites. Looking for some specific market-related eve news? there's quite some newsblogs from marketeers out there to consult!
The fact you can do all that ingame, adds to Eve's experience of being part of a large space-simulation, checking relevant news while you travel your ship across space!
The moment you got to alt-tab, it breaks that immersion, like it would in any other game where you got to alt-tab out to get some info.
Eve Online Hold'Em; Play poker for real isk!
-á-áFederation hands over historical Caldari capital to the State |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague
The Bastion
151
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Posted - 2014.07.13 08:20:00 -
[220] - Quote
Preserve IGB functionality in some way and release that tool/endpoint/API before removing IGB and make sure it's 100% compatible with current feature set.
Or just run in an update to the IGB.
Too valuable to let go at this point. |
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Serene Repose
1431
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Posted - 2014.07.13 08:26:00 -
[221] - Quote
A CSM said there's NO INTEREST IN THE INGAME BROWSER????
I told everyone they're a bunch of dolts and can't be trusted. They do NOT speak for US. Never have. Never will.
Three things loft EVE's user interface into the enviable altitude of exceptional for gaming; a) The calculator, b) The notepad and C) THE BROWSER (godammit - do we really have to be having this conversation?)
What makes the browser so significant is how it ties the game into third party applications which are all the envy of the gaming world. This especially means the EVE-Survival mission reports. One can have a mission in the browser while conducting the mission, so as not to BLUNDER. This isn't an every now and then use. There are also the vast supply of market analysis tools, being able to consult EVE UNI at WILL....I mean, really.
THE CSM MEMBERS should be allowed to participate in this discussion only as PLAYERS.
THE CSM should have NO influence or say over a decision like this.
They operate outside the playerbase as a whole, and do not represent EVE's player base as a whole.
KEEP THE BROWSER, goddamit, WE NEED IT. In fact, we'd rather see it improved upon, and not ditched. I'd be willing to pay more for my subscription if need be, rather than lose any one of these three features.
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
Slymah
Reoples
206
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Posted - 2014.07.14 06:09:00 -
[222] - Quote
I've never logged into EVE without using the IGB.
Glad it wont be a real consideration for a couple years but still.. You're making that Jita statue nervous. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
958
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Posted - 2014.07.14 06:23:00 -
[223] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:A CSM said there's NO INTEREST IN THE INGAME BROWSER????
I told everyone they're a bunch of dolts and can't be trusted. They do NOT speak for US. Never have. Never will.
I put the CSM comment into google translate.
What came out was:
There is NO INTEREST IN THE INGAME BROWSER (from people involved in Tournament play or big nullsec fleet battles and hence it is unnecessary) . |
Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
380
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Posted - 2014.07.14 13:46:00 -
[224] - Quote
Do people really sit around thinking up these sorts of changes, then complain how the world is turning bad on them? I really can't believe I read this..."thinking" of losing the in-game browser. I'd suggest whomever is engaged in this sort of thought change the subject of their thoughts to something less eventful like - "should I do my nails, or wait?"
Is there any way we can get a rope around these people to prevent them from having any influence on not only this game, but other things in life as well? I tell you, if we can't we're in real trouble here...not just in this game, but....
I think I'll go sit in stunned silence for a while. Get rid of the in-game browser...
OUTRAGEOUS.
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to. |
Christina Project
Deeper Feelings Inc.
285
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Posted - 2014.07.14 14:10:00 -
[225] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:Do people really sit around thinking up these sorts of changes, then complain how the world is turning bad on them? I really can't believe I read this..."thinking" of losing the in-game browser. I'd suggest whomever is engaged in this sort of thought change the subject of their thoughts to something less eventful like - "should I do my nails, or wait?" Is there any way we can get a rope around these people to prevent them from having any influence on not only this game, but other things in life as well? I tell you, if we can't we're in real trouble here...not just in this game, but.... I think I'll go sit in stunned silence for a while. Get rid of the in-game browser... OUTRAGEOUS.
Doing the nails can actually be pretty eventfull, you know? :p
It's funny how she changed her mains portrait,-ábecause all her alts look pretty much like her.
Took her a long while to finally realize.-á(: -álol Phantomime.
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Nick Bete
The Scope
Gallente Federation
283
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Posted - 2014.07.14 17:05:00 -
[226] - Quote
The fact that CCP is even considering doing away with the IGB shows just how out of touch they are with the needs and wants of the average player. I use the IGB every time I'm logged in because it allows me to check various sites without having to leave the Eve client. To me this is an important feature.
CREST may be awesome but, it's a developers tool. It means nothing to the average player. To even equate CREST with the way we use the IGB for looking at links, accessing websites, etc. is simply ludicrous. It's not the same, CCP! Not even close.
Please stop taking away in game features and forcing us to rely on third party apps, dual monitors and other unnecessary workarounds! |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Unleashed Pestilence
844
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Posted - 2014.07.14 17:14:00 -
[227] - Quote
First, I agree with most of your post Anabella
Anabella Rella wrote:Why remove a convenient in-game feature that's widely used and force us to rely on a second display, a smartphone, tablet, etc.?
Security. Try reading the other posts.
Anabella Rella wrote:As another poster pointed out, when the current IGB was created it was touted as a major upgrade in terms of both functionality and future maintainability. Was that all just hogwash? Was CCP being dishonest with us then or, are they being dishonest now?
What the hell does being wrong have to do with being dishonest? Technology has changed a huge amount in the past 11 years, and expecting the best solution to a problem to stay constant with the advent of new technologies is asanine, ignorant, and plain stupid. Many of the technologies CCP is replacing the IGB with did either did not exist at the time that the IGB was added, or were very recent and untested at the time.
New player resources:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information
http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP
http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
rswfire
Firesworn Nation
180
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Posted - 2014.07.14 19:49:00 -
[228] - Quote
That is probably the longest post I've ever read from you, and you did it from a phone. Kudos.
I think you point out many of the concerns and offer potential solutions to them, but none of the solutions will fix the main issue with removal of the IGB: The fact that if it is removed, we cannot use the browser in game! You are essentially forcing us to alt-tab or use a second screen if you remove the IGB and this is bad for {many reasons}. That said, the fact the IGB is based on IE6 (afaik) is also really awful and I can understand that it is challenging to update this to a more modern browser while remaining secure. I haven't really looked into this myself but I suspect that there are modern browsers with embeddable features to them; perhaps you could look into that. The IGB is an integral part of Eve and CREST cannot replace it; it can only enhance some things, but it cannot replace the IGB.
About Us .|. Facebook .|. Google+ .|. Steam .|. Twitter .|. Youtube |
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
211
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Posted - 2014.07.14 20:09:00 -
[229] - Quote
rswfire wrote:That is probably the longest post I've ever read from you, and you did it from a phone. Kudos. I think you point out many of the concerns and offer potential solutions to them, but none of the solutions will fix the main issue with removal of the IGB: The fact that if it is removed, we cannot use the browser in game! You are essentially forcing us to alt-tab or use a second screen if you remove the IGB and this is bad for {many reasons}. That said, the fact the IGB is based on IE6 (afaik) is also really awful and I can understand that it is challenging to update this to a more modern browser while remaining secure. I haven't really looked into this myself but I suspect that there are modern browsers with embeddable features to them; perhaps you could look into that. The IGB is an integral part of Eve and CREST cannot replace it; it can only enhance some things, but it cannot replace the IGB.
It is based on Chromium not IE. Thanks for ignoring 90% of the thread. |
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
Space Wolves Alliance
97
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Posted - 2014.07.14 21:52:00 -
[230] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Things like Overwolf I think it's called.
Just addressing this part, because overall, removing the IGB is a terrible idea. Just update it to a better version of chrome .
As for overwolf...Its trash, please dont encourage or push strongly for people to use overlay programs. We wouldnt have to use overlays in the first place if the in game tools and UI werent **** to begin with. Luckily, with EvE, its not mandatory to use an overlay or extra "add-ons and mods" to do well; like some other games. |
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Ursula Thrace
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
241
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Posted - 2014.07.15 00:46:00 -
[231] - Quote
honestly, i use the IGB, but if CCP decided to nix it, you wouldn't catch me crying in the corner with a bowl of porridge. change is good.
eve online original intro
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Rumtin
Imperium Technologies
Evictus.
85
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Posted - 2014.07.15 13:45:00 -
[232] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.
I hope that elevates your concerns for now. Let's get back to blowing up spaceships and building an awesome universe together and enjoying the sun... Which I might be the only one doing :P
Riiight, like how we had that big, huge, long discussion before you arbitrarily removed the Jukebox? Guess we all missed that discussion.
Why is it so hard for CCP to keep hold of the good extras in EvE? Complaining about how its "extra work" to properly maintain these features is silly. Havent you ever heard of Job Security!? While you guys are off gutting EvE Online to make it as maintenanceless as possible, guess ill be off looking for a new pass-time with the rate this is going. |
Enta Ozuwara
Brave Operations - Lollipop Division
Brave Collective
22
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Posted - 2014.07.15 21:56:00 -
[233] - Quote
Justin Cody wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:Lykouleon wrote:Just to be sure, you do realize the IGB is a version of chrome, right? OMG, they did that to Chrome?? its part of the webkit that chrome is based on yes...but it is not chrome. Although they could easily update the browser as it exists right now simply by updating the toolkit. It would be a very small and significant patch. Probably result in another boot.ini incident somehow so it is avoided :-P.
It is Chrome. Chrome 3. Chromium Embedded Framework wrapped in Awsomnium to be precise. It has V8, or at least a very early version of it. It doesn't have HTML5 because that was in the very early stages when Chrome 3 came out. You might not realize it, but that was 6 years ago. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient
1729
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Posted - 2014.07.16 05:53:00 -
[234] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:First, I agree with most of your post Anabella Anabella Rella wrote:Why remove a convenient in-game feature that's widely used and force us to rely on a second display, a smartphone, tablet, etc.? Security. Try reading the other posts. Anabella Rella wrote:As another poster pointed out, when the current IGB was created it was touted as a major upgrade in terms of both functionality and future maintainability. Was that all just hogwash? Was CCP being dishonest with us then or, are they being dishonest now? What the hell does being wrong have to do with being dishonest? Technology has changed a huge amount in the past 11 years, and expecting the best solution to a problem to stay constant with the advent of new technologies is asanine, ignorant, and plain stupid. Many of the technologies CCP is replacing the IGB with did either did not exist at the time that the IGB was added, or were very recent and untested at the time.
The latest iteration of the IGB is nowhere near 11 years old. It was demoed and a tech overview of it was given at Fanfest 3-4 years ago.
What I was getting at was the fact that at the time the current Chromium-based IGB was introduced, CCP stated that it was not only a better solution technologically but would be far easier to iterate on. Now FoxFour is saying just the opposite. So, which is it?
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around. |
Dyscordia
Dissident Aggressors
Mordus Angels
20
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Posted - 2014.07.16 07:28:00 -
[235] - Quote
Ursula Thrace wrote:honestly, i use the IGB, but if CCP decided to nix it, you wouldn't catch me crying in the corner with a bowl of porridge. change is good.
Losing your leg and getting a prosthetic leg is change. For me personally, I wouldn't consider that good even if the fake leg is more durable. I see this situation in much the same way.
If the IGB has to go due to lack of CCP resources/interest to support it and keep it secure, so be it. I'm also going to have strong feelings about this proposal since it effects my game play in a dramatic way. I am also going convey concerns while this is just a preliminary and probably 1/2 baked idea. To me, when I am told CREST is going to replace the IGB - it sounds like someone is saying 'your 10 year old Toyota has to go, but don't worry we are giving you these brand new leather BMW bucket seats to help you get to where you need to go. Now just go ask someone to design a sports car around it for you, I'm sure it will be an unbelievably amazing car. Good luck!'
Giving third party developers slick tools is actually a great thing to do - it enhances the game experience. Pawning off parts of your application because you do not want to support it and expecting third party developers to pick up slack and manage expectations does not enhance the game experience. It does the opposite. Third party developers can do some amazing things, I agree, but they are entitled to lose interest and stop supporting a a product, not share their products with the community at large, or simply move on to other non-CCP projects/hobbies. They don't even have to tell us they quit.
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Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague
The Bastion
154
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Posted - 2014.07.16 09:34:00 -
[236] - Quote
Let's take a travel tool most of galactic north and west use, currently it just spots your current system and updates that system when you're en route to show the current one + has nifty things like info on people getting podded or someone declaring a system hot (on top of route opmitization, system avoidance, JB's, security status diversion and dozens of other nice things).
Instead of having all the info going:
IGB -> External server -> IGB
it has to go:
Eve Cliend (EC) -> CREST -> External server -> CREST -> EC
(or worse:
EC -> client computer -> CREST -> client -> external server -> client -> CREST -> client -> EC)
If CREST has a hiccup of 30 seconds, the tool is useless, same as if the external server has a hicup. Problem is that API and CREST are notoriously bad at staying up even after all the lovely and beautiful effort CCP has done. It's an extra layer of complexity which can break easily.
Best thing for CCP would be gauging the total usage of in-game browser and the amount of calls it is making to external services, simulating that increased load on CREST and see how badly it dies. |
E1ev1n
Top Gear Construction
0
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Posted - 2014.07.16 13:25:00 -
[237] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:...1
So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.
...2
The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.
...
In regards to 1 you are absolutely correct. Not only would it hurt our gameplay but it would likely impact 3rd party devs in ways we don't yet understand. In fact if you look at sites like battleclinic or incursion community's websites and how the fits are displayed on them it seems that there are alot of things that work really well with the game having an IGB.
In regards to 2, I think that added functionality of the IGB would be more desirable, perhaps by updating the CHROME engine to a newer version that supports HTML5. This would (as far as I can tell based on some tests with different browsers) allow sites like youtube to display content which can be beneficial to new pilots and old pilots alike. |
Draconas109
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.07.16 14:32:00 -
[238] - Quote
Uhh, I use the IGB to help with shopping lists and auto-scrolling my buy/sell orders, something an OGB WILL NOT do, +1 for keeping the outdated thing |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust
The Bastion
133
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Posted - 2014.07.16 14:58:00 -
[239] - Quote
You kids are spoiled. When I started playing Eve, there was no IGB.
It was horrible. |
Freelancer117
so you want to be a Hero
217
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Posted - 2014.07.16 21:17:00 -
[240] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:
So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it.
Why are you selling CREST so much, when we have NOT seen anything of CREST atm as a practical large scale utility option.
I would like to remind CCPgames of their visions of grandeur that have been raised to the public and never seen the light of day, has been poorly implemented, or till today has not been itterated on properly.
I could give you more then a couple examples of the companies ideas since end 2008 which, perhaps like CREST, have not been recieved well.
Please before you go down the path of deleting current code in favor of potential new features that may or may not see a proper installtion on our clients, give us the customers the ability to review and evaluate both options so we can have some choice in the matter, apart from voting with our wallets if we do not like it at all. 
Eve rule no.1: The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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