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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
168
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Posted - 2014.07.08 17:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://show.gamingradio.net/2014/06/22/csm-9-townhall-1/ At around 59 minutes,
According to the latest CSM townhall. CCP is thinking about REMOVING the IGB. Apparently "issues" about the work maintaining the IGB. Also an CSM member says there is little interest in keeping it.
Ignoring the fact that the IGB helps in times of mining or shooting the worlds most boring NPCs. (Don't lie, C5/C6 sleeper sites are on autopilot at this point). The IGB is the only way our wormhole mapping tools remain valid.
Let this be a call to arms. Don't let CCP remove the IGB. Otherwise you'll also be forced to run two monitors to use an browser while playing EVE. You'll be forced to manually map wormholes/
Don't let this be an end of an era because CCP is delusional about the quality of their own content.
Yes, users of Tripwire, vippy, evewholes, and whatever the heck else is out there, this affects all of you.
You must all be vocal about how much you love the IGB. |
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
502
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 18:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
I GÖÑ IGB
Ask me about Rengas-dar, HRDKX's Most recent, groundbreaking, game-changing, wormhole-collapsing research endeavour.
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Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
373
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 18:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Remove IGB and replace with updated IGB pls pls pls
Gib html 5 and websockets plox! Blue-Fire Best Fire |
Alundil
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
581
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 18:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
This would be very bad indeed. PvE content is pretty bad/boring?
A quick way of accessing other information while still within the Eve UI and maintaining some modicum of situational awareness has become a standard facet (I'd argue almost required) of playing Eve.
This, of course, says nothing about the very large number of 3rd Party tools developed by players for players to augment the terrible lack of information presented by various aspects of the EVE Client. Most of these leverage the IGB browser in order to facilitate context aware features (think CCOW in programming for patient context between applications). Mapping tools are just one of many. There are fleet management tools. Mining yield management tools to help track activities and contributions. A plethora of useful things that ease some of the nightmare that is EVE's UI and/or dearth of useful information streams.
CCP removing the IGB is, imo, a pretty big insult to the many 3rd Party Devs that have spent their own time, hard work and money on developing tools that make EVE, at a competitive level, playable.
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Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
135
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Posted - 2014.07.08 18:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Removing the IGB is a sure fire way to remove all the revenue you make from wormholes subbing your game CCP. Just saying., would cause more of a backlash then whatever that idijit on the CSM thinks it would. You too can start failing today! Reddit-áad | Cascading Failure Public Channel | Aspiring Failure
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Sparrow Creature
Ivy League Hall of Residence Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2014.07.08 19:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
With the SSO they're proposing you could easily do away with the IGB and have 3rd party sites use SSO for authentication. The only people this would really affect are those that play in true full screen mode. But, I don't really care about those folks. I for one would be ecstatic if they did away with that antiquated terrible browser. |
Sparrow Creature
Ivy League Hall of Residence Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2014.07.08 19:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hatshepsut IV wrote:Removing the IGB is a sure fire way to remove all the revenue you make from wormholes subbing your game CCP. Just saying., would cause more of a backlash then whatever that idijit on the CSM thinks it would.
Right, because everyone living in WHs would just up and cancel their subscriptions. No one at all would even try to adapt. I completely agree with your assessment of what would come to pass.
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KeeganWaffle
Lazerhawks
11
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Posted - 2014.07.08 19:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
drama queens |
Proclus Diadochu
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
1824
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 19:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
I GÖÑ IGB
I'll keep my "antiquated terrible browser." Thanks. **Irrelevant-á| Twitter: @autoritare | [email protected] My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/ | The Diogenes Club |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
28
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 20:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
they could just update it. I mean an update every decade or so wouldn't hurt it to much, they do it now then they can forget about it till 2025 or 2030. |
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
494
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 20:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
It depends. If they can get SSO working, great, but alot (and I mean ALOT) of people play in fullscreen.
I'd honestly would kinda hate having to have an ipad next to me to monitor what I'm doing.. I would also like it too.
There are alot of people that use it, and removing it completely would hurt more people than it helped.
Update it, do SSO also, never worry about updating browser again. Yaay!!!! |
Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
136
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 20:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sparrow Creature wrote:Right, because everyone living in WHs would just up and cancel their subscriptions. No one at all would even try to adapt. I completely agree with your assessment of what would come to pass.
I'm pretty sure you don't actually scan that much if you think removing our mapping tools is just a matter of 'adapting'. If someone takes away your eyesight you don't continue to drive by 'adapting'.
Sparrow Creature wrote:But, I don't really care about those folks.
Who are you again?
All garbage aside, I will not accept the possibility of them letting us use SSO to migrate our mapping tools over as a reason not to raise hell until they give us 100 percent concrete proof that they will do so.
Can/might/should is not will. There is lots of stuff they could do but won't our haven't.
Mapping tools are bread and butter to the entire way of life of wormhole corps who roll and scan out 10-20 chains a day. Doubly so if you have multiple corps in an alliance. They function to give a unified map to make your bookmarks match up.
It costs them nothing to leave the IGB in exactly as is now, it hurts noone by doing something.
It hurts an entire player base removing it for no other reason then certain people don't use/like it as much as some of us. You too can start failing today! Reddit-áad | Cascading Failure Public Channel | Aspiring Failure
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SwagYolo420
Narwhals Ate My Duck. Narwhals Ate My Duck
10
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Posted - 2014.07.08 21:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Posting to provide my support for the IGB. It is the best way for non-intrusive mapping to work.
Also I see a few people posting in this thread about SSO for authentication - that is not what wormhole mapping, or this thread, is about. A wormhole mapper can real-time track your location, the ship you are in, and probably a few other things. It also allows you to copy-paste signatures, or check your chain, without having to alt-tab. |
Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3500
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 21:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
To be fair, WH mapping is the ONLY use for the IGB. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/ |
Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
136
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 21:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
SwagYolo420 wrote:Also I see a few people posting in this thread about SSO for authentication - that is not what wormhole mapping, or this thread, is about. A wormhole mapper can real-time track your location, the ship you are in, and probably a few other things. It also allows you to copy-paste signatures, or check your chain, without having to alt-tab.
Quoting you for maximum truth and/or justice. You too can start failing today! Reddit-áad | Cascading Failure Public Channel | Aspiring Failure
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Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
239
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 21:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Will never happen. |
Bloemkoolsaus
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
162
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 22:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
The IGB is not only important for our mappers. Many people don't have the luxury of multiple screens and having a browser ingame adds real value to the game. Being able to call up or refernce information withouth having to alt-tab out of the game is essential. Especially now that almost all websites/services are responsive (meaning they adapt to the window size).
For exemple, next to my wh mapper, I use dotlan on the IGB daily. It will be a lot less usefull if I constantly have to alt-tab.
Even if the IGB is not up-to-date with all current standard, it still needs to stay!! |
Alundil
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
581
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 22:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:To be fair, WH mapping is the ONLY use for the IGB. That isn't true.
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Unleashed Pestilence
809
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 22:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Should cross post this as this affects all players, not just wormholers. the in game browser is one of the nicest features in eve. I play in fixed windowed, and routinely alt-tab to out of game browsers, but being able to click links in chat is excellent. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Matt Ellis
Infinity Engine Sleeping Dragons
119
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 22:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
The very idea of removing it means that the ones who suggested it have NO idea how its used. Wormhole mapping tools are one big use in wormholes, but to be honest, it doesn't even need to be that complicated to warrant needing it. I don't have the luxury of a dual monitor setup. Space is a commodity. I don't game on the best equipment, and that equipment is starting to get slower. It takes a few seconds for my machine to cycle out of eve, and then back in again. In hostile space, thats too much. I can miss getting Intel for my fleet, or miss something on dscan. Having it in game means I can still play the game while browsing. It gets uses more than my main browsers while my eve clients are open!
Lets be shot of this idea right now!
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Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
175
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 22:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sparrow Creature wrote:With the SSO they're proposing you could easily do away with the IGB and have 3rd party sites use SSO for authentication. The only people this would really affect are those that play in true full screen mode. But, I don't really care about those folks. I for one would be ecstatic if they did away with that antiquated terrible browser.
You are a idiot. SSO only provides authenication.
Guess what? All the tools that depend need IGB, DONT HAVE AUTHENICATION ISSUES NOR DEPEND on the IGB's trusted headers for auth.
The IGB provides real time data of the current user's location, ship, etc. This is something that SSO cannot provide unless CCP implements a radically different technology for providing this data which they won't....given how much trouble they have running simple cached API servers. |
Alundil
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
581
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 22:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jack Tronic wrote:Sparrow Creature wrote:With the SSO they're proposing you could easily do away with the IGB and have 3rd party sites use SSO for authentication. The only people this would really affect are those that play in true full screen mode. But, I don't really care about those folks. I for one would be ecstatic if they did away with that antiquated terrible browser. You are a idiot. SSO only provides authenication. Guess what? All the tools that depend need IGB, DONT HAVE AUTHENICATION ISSUES NOR DEPEND on the IGB's trusted headers for auth. This is is about ease of use and the additional data which SSO cannot provide.
This
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calaretu
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
126
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 22:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Removing IGB would be very bad. Its a vital part of the daily life of everyone in wspace ~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
734
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'm very intrigued to know which CSM's agree with this removal...
Onto the topic at hand. Personally, I play Eve on a desktop where room is limited and I cannot have a second monitor to view a browser on. I also play in full windowed mode so Alt-Tab is a pain in the arse.
I shouldn't have to play a game in windowed mode just so I can live in WH space and use the mappers via alt - tabbing or buying a second screen that I dont have the room or money for. The in-game browser is a vital tool for me and possibly everyone who ever leaves their own hole and maps their chain. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
scotayne hawkins
Merchants Trade Consortium Disavowed.
19
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
in game browser plays a vital part in w-space lifestyle for most of our mapping tools |
ChYph3r
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
136
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
The WH tears, they are so yummy! Sperg more. Want to find all the podcasts around EVE Online visit http://evepodcasts.com @chyph3r-á on Twitter
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
820
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Removing the IGB would be suicidal behavior, CCP don't go in for that do they? There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Alundil
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
581
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
ChYph3r wrote:The WH tears, they are so yummy! Sperg more. Take the pants off of your head. GSF/CFC and other entities utilize igb functionality for your entire paplink system lottery scheme.
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Zanthrus Stetille
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
Unless there is a compelling reason why the IGB makes the game worse than it would be without it, I see no reason to remove it. I use a very large screen, so I can easily have EVE open and another browser in windowed mode. However, it is easier most of the time to just use the IGB unless I need to go to a website that doesn't work so well with it.
Keep the IGB, update it, just don't remove it. |
Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
1271
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
I don't see any reason to remove it. Seems like more effort to remove it than to just leave it be.
Having said that, your mapping tools are a crutch and you are bad for relying on them. Remember when siggy went down and more than half the corps just stopped working because you scrubs couldn't navigate based on bookmarks? Yeah, I remember that. |
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Bigg Easy
Trader-Hoes
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 23:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
KeeganWaffle wrote:drama queens This is rich Kei....I mean Keegan. Rich. |
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
176
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 00:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
Paikis wrote:I don't see any reason to remove it. Seems like more effort to remove it than to just leave it be.
Having said that, your mapping tools are a crutch and you are bad for relying on them. Remember when siggy went down and more than half the corps just stopped working because you scrubs couldn't navigate based on bookmarks? Yeah, I remember that.
Not the only problem.
The hell are we supposed to do when CCP provides us with zero content as entertainment but we have to sit there as we jump endless amounts of gates? |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
4693
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 00:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP should not remove the IGB, they should be devoting more effort to it, including more integration with the client. I should be able to drag items into the IGB.
If they want to remove it, I could imagine some of the functionality being replicated in CREST, for example things like location/ship type tracking. Until that is available, CCP should not even consider removing it. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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Annette Nolen
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
28
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Posted - 2014.07.09 00:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
Haven't seen it called out yet but the ability to click on things on a page in the IGB and have it open in-game (showinfo on corps/players, contract details, system info, etc.) is pretty critical too. Losing this would REALLY hurt some tools/use-cases. |
Valtrinor
S0utherN Comfort DARKNESS.
9
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Posted - 2014.07.09 01:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:To be fair, WH mapping is the ONLY use for the IGB.
Not even close. I've spent all except two to three months of my time in EVE in k-space and have never used a mapping tool, yet I use the IGB on an hourly basis at minimum most days. If I'm out on a fleet for example, I can't really afford to have the RAM use of a full-fledged browser running sometimes. In fact, multiple channels I sit in have shorthanded web links, and I even set up my own wiki to have more stuff quickly available for the IGB. See for example: Linkage
Quite frankly from a user POV I don't even know what could possibly be the effort involved in "maintaining" Chromium 3 code which to my knowledge has had no changes since being added to replace the hilariously old original IGB and was supposed to be modular and easy to update when introduced. I don't mean this to insult any devs, but it makes no sense. Twitter: @Valtrinor |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1234
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 01:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jack Tronic wrote:Apparently "issues" about the work maintaining the IGB
Implying CCP has actually done any work to maintain the IGB in the last several years in the first place. I always look for stuff relating to the IGB in patchnotes, and I've been disappointed for years.
Hell, isn't it still running on a ****** version of Chromium that's 3-4 years old? Morwen Lagann CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar |
Serith Ellecon
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
29
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 01:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
If you can make a plugin for ALL the major desktop browsers to let our mappers set our autopilots and read locations from the game, maybe you can remove the IGB. Until that point - NO WAY IN HELL do you even THINK about dumping the IGB. Inappropriate signature added.-á CCP Notarealdev. |
Kesper North
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
381
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 01:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Don't remove the IGB - or if you do, make sure you're not removing useful functionality with it. The "radar" function of Dotlan alone justifies its existence. |
Aebe Amraen
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
71
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 01:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
Checking in as another IGB user. This site is my IGB home page: http://www.ohi.se/eve/linkfit/
The database it uses seems to be slightly out-of-date, but it's still amazingly useful. So much easier than importing fit to a fitting tool, exporting to an EVE saved fit file, and then importing to EVE saved fittings.
Edit: I just noticed this is in the Wormholes forum. To be clear, I came here from twitter and have nothing to do with wspace these days (though I did live there for a few months, once upon a time). The IGB is not only useful for wormholers! |
ArchAngael
S U P R E M E - M A T H E M A T I C S A Band Apart.
6
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Posted - 2014.07.09 01:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
The IGB is pretty iconic to Eve and lots of culture surrounds it too. What other MMOG has one?
If everytime some idiot posted a reaction gif and I wanted to be an idiot and look at it I had to alt-tab out of Eve, that would be super annoying. Not to mention all the mapping tools, dotlan (imagine having to actually use the in-game starmap for navigation). It would be horrific. Even with memory-hogging alt-tabbing, you still couldn't replace the trusted site functionality spread all over the place.
Keep the IGB. Recruiter for Supreme Mathematics (affiliated with Stay Frosty)
Take my Eve Online Ship identification quiz at http://fenjaylabs.com/EveShipIdQuiz |
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Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
177
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Posted - 2014.07.09 02:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:Jack Tronic wrote:Apparently "issues" about the work maintaining the IGB Implying CCP has actually done any work to maintain the IGB in the last several years in the first place. I always look for stuff relating to the IGB in patchnotes, and I've been disappointed for years. Hell, isn't it still running on a ****** version of Chromium that's 3-4 years old?
Listen to the section in the podcast, CSM dude said it.
CCP uses a toolkit called Awesomium. Unforunately it seems when they implemented Awesomium it was 4-5 years ago and they stopped caring to update. Awesomium itself is a great library framework and is maintained and used in quite a few game products now. But yes, the Awesomium they used is still at Chromium 2.0.
Perhaps CCP just doesn't want to pay the licensing fee. Perhaps CCP's developers don't know how to integrate an API for the life of them and they fired the original guy. |
Alundil
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
583
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 02:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kesper North wrote:Don't remove the IGB - or if you do, make sure you're not removing useful functionality with it. The "radar" function of Dotlan alone justifies its existence. You ought to speak to your 'boy' up above as he obviously has no idea.
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1465
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 02:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
the IGB is critically important to our logistics division. please do not remove it without replacing it with something equally awesome
we have a tool that we open in the ingame browser that allows us to easily trigger the market to buy stuff for our members. without that functionality or something equally useful, i highly doubt we could keep up our jita buy service. GRRR Goons |
Alundil
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
583
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 02:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
Here's a link to one of the tools threads where FoxFour talks about this as well.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4785544#post4785544
Not a bad idea to let them know there as well since it might catch the eye of more devs than our poor wormhole section of the forum.
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VirusMD
Anoikis Vergence Critically Unstable
6
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 02:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
Dont be so lazy CCP, The IGB has been neglected for years, we have been forced to build our infrastructure around a decaying corpse of a browser, now you want to take it away instead of fixing it? Prob your biggest fail since "walk in stations" or missing the threadnaught about the ESS wormhole problems... FIX MY IGB PLS! |
Justin C4se
Oath of the Forsaken Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
29
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Posted - 2014.07.09 02:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
+1 for the wormhole people not wanting to lose their IGB Fly safe, Oath of the Forsaken
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Kaylin Drake
Profound Destiny
29
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 02:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
Just adding my name to the list. I really don't like CCP constantly removing things that others find great use for, such as the jukebox.. I still miss that. Please don't take out another great feature of this game.. don't remove IGB, if anything.. update it. Please leave it for those that do use it. |
Kynric
Sky Fighters
102
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 02:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
I use the IGB almost constantly. It would be greatly missed. I prefer to play the game in full screen mode. |
NinjaTurtle
Carte Blanche. Trading
78
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 03:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
The biggest question for me is what would happen to all the 3rd party applications that require the IGB's unique access and functionality to operate as intended. Siggy is one that comes to mind immediately, or tracking features on Dotlan as well. But yeah I'm against removing it. Co-host and editor of Declarations of War Podcast http://declarationsofwar.com Twitter- @schertt |
Agrippa Hurt
The Coven's Spoon Corner Pub
3
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 03:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
Inb4 six accounts deactivation |
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1584
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 03:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
Get rid of the IGB...for an in game browser that can actually load video.
"Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart." -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2734
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 03:19:00 -
[52] - Quote
the only reason why gifs still exist is the eve IGB. Without IGB you commit genocide on a file format CCP. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1235
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 04:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
Jack Tronic wrote:Morwen Lagann wrote:Jack Tronic wrote:Apparently "issues" about the work maintaining the IGB Implying CCP has actually done any work to maintain the IGB in the last several years in the first place. I always look for stuff relating to the IGB in patchnotes, and I've been disappointed for years. Hell, isn't it still running on a ****** version of Chromium that's 3-4 years old? Listen to the section in the podcast, CSM dude said it. CCP uses a toolkit called Awesomium. Unforunately it seems when they implemented Awesomium it was 4-5 years ago and they stopped caring to update. Awesomium itself is a great library framework and is maintained and used in quite a few game products now. But yes, the Awesomium they used is still at Chromium 2.0. According to FoxFour, they heavily modified Awesomium to work with EVE, that is extremely terrifying in of itself because I have used Awesomium to project a web browser on textures in a 3d world without effort.
I'm not going to waste time listening to a podcast I had no prior reason to listen to in the first place, when you're going to post a confirmation that what I said is accurate for me.
Removing the IGB would be a colossally stupid move on CCP's part, and it's a bit disingenuous for CCP to make claims about the amount of effort involved in maintaining the damn thing when there's been barely any effort expended on maintaining it since it was redesigned in the first place. That would have been the time to remove the browser, for what it's worth: when they removed the REALLY bad one and replaced it with what we have now.
Right now the appropriate thing to do is to put some effort in and actually start maintaining it. Morwen Lagann CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar |
Van Weyden
Locus Signatures
3
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 05:21:00 -
[54] - Quote
calaretu wrote:Removing IGB would be very bad. Its a vital part of the daily life of everyone in wspace
+1
I use IGB everyday |
Citrute
Whale Girth Grand Sky Wizards
136
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 05:47:00 -
[55] - Quote
CCP should remove the IGB in WH space only. It is clearly an oversight and wasn't intended to be there in the first place. |
AtomYcX
Hard Knocks Inc.
76
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 06:03:00 -
[56] - Quote
Aebe Amraen wrote:Checking in as another IGB user. This site is my IGB home page: http://www.ohi.se/eve/linkfit/The database it uses seems to be slightly out-of-date, but it's still amazingly useful. So much easier than importing fit to a fitting tool, exporting to an EVE saved fit file, and then importing to EVE saved fittings. Edit: I just noticed this is in the Wormholes forum. To be clear, I came here from twitter and have nothing to do with wspace these days (though I did live there for a few months, once upon a time). The IGB is not only useful for wormholers!
psst...that's what this is for http://puu.sh/a3gix/14f419aa66.png
Still requires the IGB of course but it's an automatically updating HTML file with searchable in-game links to all your Pyfa fits - I believe EFT has similar functionality too. |
Austin K'Pfor
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 06:07:00 -
[57] - Quote
PLEASE GOD NO I USE THIS IN EVERYDAY LIFE IN NEW EDEN |
Winthorp
1841
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 06:12:00 -
[58] - Quote
Austin K'Pfor wrote:PLEASE GOD NO I USE THIS IN EVERYDAY LIFE IN NEW EDEN
And your capslock button it appears. *Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal. |
Agrippa Hurt
The Coven's Spoon Corner Pub
3
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 06:24:00 -
[59] - Quote
Austin K'Pfor wrote:PLEASE GOD NO I USE THIS IN EVERYDAY LIFE IN NEW EDEN
|
Proclus Diadochu
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
1826
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 06:33:00 -
[60] - Quote
Austin K'Pfor wrote:PLEASE GOD NO I USE THIS IN EVERYDAY LIFE IN NEW EDEN ^
FUKUNG WILL LOSE SO MUCH TRAFFIC, CCP?!?!?! WHERE IS YOUR COMPASSION FOR SHITLERS EVERYWHERE?! WHY DO YOU WANT TO PROTECT LOCAL SO BAD?!?! **Irrelevant-á| Twitter: @autoritare | [email protected] My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/ | The Diogenes Club |
|
hfo df
Ramm's RDI Tactical Narcotics Team
21
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 06:36:00 -
[61] - Quote
I'm seeing literally thousands of players using the IGB each day. Please keep it in, albeit not updated.
(I'm df on eve-dev, but dont respond to the highlight as you folks talk too much about dwarf fortress.) |
Winthorp
1843
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 06:40:00 -
[62] - Quote
I am not sure what i am more angry about, losing access to WH mapping tools or the deposit function to fund my www.evebet.com addiction.
Jokes aside this is pretty bad and not just for WH users, a lot of other areas of the game use the IGB so they better have an alternative in place when they hit the delete button or **** will go back 5 years. *Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal. |
Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
61
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 07:06:00 -
[63] - Quote
The IGB is needed. The reasons have been listed here.
Look, CCP, if you have a game that at times is so long-winded as Eve you NEED something else to do. I mean, moving 22 jumps in an Orca to get needed things to a wormhole, or station in LoSec is mostly a non-event. Yet the EULA requires us to still play the game. (So to the gankers, I agree.)
But anyway, who am I kidding.... Eve is dying anyway. ;) |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3336
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 07:15:00 -
[64] - Quote
Oh wow, this is a pretty amazing thread. Mostly filled with a lot of misunderstanding so let me see if I can clear that up before we get to the Jita riots. Before continuing though, please be advised this post comes to you from a phone and is therefore likely to be filled with even more terribleness than my usual posts. I may try and proof read this though.
So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon and defiantly not without a lot of discussion with the CSM and more importantly you guys. When I say not anytime soon I mean there is no plan to remove it, there is not even a plan to look into how much effort it would be to it. Removing the IGB is as best I can tell years away from happening.
So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.
So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it. The most common uses of the IGB are things like DOTLAN's radar or wormhole mapping software. Both those really just need your location information, which we can supply in the an even better way via CREST. Better CREST wouldn't require you to have the IGB open. Log into some website, give it permission to see your location, and even when you are not on that web site it know where you are. This means you get your whole corp to sign up and then only those looking at the mail need to open the browser. This is better in so many ways.
The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.
I could go on listing so many other things but the bottom line is this: CREST is a far newer technology and more importantly one we can maintain far easier than the IGB. We would like to remove the IGB but we will not do so until CREST, or even maybe something else, gets us feature equal to the IGB.
Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. The benefits from us doing things through CREST and relying on you guys to use an existing browser are immense. We get to focus on making cool things instead of trying to maintain a customized browser in the client. Not sure you guys realize just how much work there is in maintaining something as complex as a browser and how much of a security problem for everyone this is.
Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.
I hope that elevates your concerns for now. Let's get back to blowing up spaceships and building an awesome universe together and enjoying the sun... Which I might be the only one doing :P CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
|
|
Winthorp
1843
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 07:18:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Oh wow, this is a pretty amazing thread. Mostly filled with a lot of misunderstanding so let me see if I can clear that up before we get to the Jita riots. Before continuing though, please be advised this post comes to you from a phone and is therefore likely to be filled with even more terribleness than my usual posts. I may try and proof read this though.
So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon and defiantly not without a lot of discussion with the CSM and more importantly you guys. When I say not anytime soon I mean there is no plan to remove it, there is not even a plan to look into how much effort it would be to it. Removing the IGB is as best I can tell years away from happening.
So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.
So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it. The most common uses of the IGB are things like DOTLAN's radar or wormhole mapping software. Both those really just need your location information, which we can supply in the an even better way via CREST. Better CREST wouldn't require you to have the IGB open. Log into some website, give it permission to see your location, and even when you are not on that web site it know where you are. This means you get your whole corp to sign up and then only those looking at the mail need to open the browser. This is better in so many ways.
The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.
I could go on listing so many other things but the bottom line is this: CREST is a far newer technology and more importantly one we can maintain far easier than the IGB. We would like to remove the IGB but we will not do so until CREST, or even maybe something else, gets us feature equal to the IGB.
Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. The benefits from us doing things through CREST and relying on you guys to use an existing browser are immense. We get to focus on making cool things instead of trying to maintain a customized browser in the client. Not sure you guys realize just how much work there is in maintaining something as complex as a browser and how much of a security problem for everyone this is.
Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.
I hope that elevates your concerns for now. Let's get back to blowing up spaceships and building an awesome universe together and enjoying the sun... Which I might be the only one doing :P
Solid response, now if you can just give us back NPC kill API data i will think you are less of a shitcunt. *Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal. |
Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
30
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 07:20:00 -
[66] - Quote
Personally, I support removing IGB cause it punishes blobbers everywhere.
Like the poster above... Also, NERF cap escalations. |
Winthorp
1843
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 07:21:00 -
[67] - Quote
Adriana Nolen wrote:Personally, I support removing IGB cause it punishes blobbers everywhere.
I will never change my mind about you being a shitcunt. *Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal. |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3336
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 07:26:00 -
[68] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:words... Solid response, now if you can just give us back NPC kill API data i will think you are less of a shitcunt.
I will just have to embrace being a shitcunt then... Which I think I am getting pretty good at these days.
CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
|
|
Winthorp
1843
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 07:29:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Winthorp wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:words... Solid response, now if you can just give us back NPC kill API data i will think you are less of a shitcunt. I will just have to embrace being a shitcunt then... Which I think I am getting pretty good at these days.
Another good response i might have to change my mind about you... Now more importantly how do you feel about the Dusette girls, do you bat that way?
P.S Also i have a medal named after you, you got upset at me last time. *Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal. |
Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3502
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 07:30:00 -
[70] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Oh wow, this is a pretty amazing thread. Mostly filled with a lot of misunderstanding so let me see if I can clear that up before we get to the Jita riots. Before continuing though, please be advised this post comes to you from a phone and is therefore likely to be filled with even more terribleness than my usual posts. I may try and proof read this though.
So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon and defiantly not without a lot of discussion with the CSM and more importantly you guys. When I say not anytime soon I mean there is no plan to remove it, there is not even a plan to look into how much effort it would be to it. Removing the IGB is as best I can tell years away from happening.
So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.
So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it. The most common uses of the IGB are things like DOTLAN's radar or wormhole mapping software. Both those really just need your location information, which we can supply in the an even better way via CREST. Better CREST wouldn't require you to have the IGB open. Log into some website, give it permission to see your location, and even when you are not on that web site it know where you are. This means you get your whole corp to sign up and then only those looking at the mail need to open the browser. This is better in so many ways.
The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.
I could go on listing so many other things but the bottom line is this: CREST is a far newer technology and more importantly one we can maintain far easier than the IGB. We would like to remove the IGB but we will not do so until CREST, or even maybe something else, gets us feature equal to the IGB.
Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. The benefits from us doing things through CREST and relying on you guys to use an existing browser are immense. We get to focus on making cool things instead of trying to maintain a customized browser in the client. Not sure you guys realize just how much work there is in maintaining something as complex as a browser and how much of a security problem for everyone this is.
Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.
I hope that elevates your concerns for now. Let's get back to blowing up spaceships and building an awesome universe together and enjoying the sun... Which I might be the only one doing :P Oh wow, you mean EVE players over reacted to rumours they have zero background on and assumed consequences that would never happen? I for one am shocked. SHOCKED! Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/ |
|
Kellie Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin
309
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 07:31:00 -
[71] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Winthorp wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:words... Solid response, now if you can just give us back NPC kill API data i will think you are less of a shitcunt. I will just have to embrace being a shitcunt then... Which I think I am getting pretty good at these days. Wow GÖí Pretty sure you just won EVE with that post, Ms FoxFour.
How they going fixing that dress layering issue anyway?
|
Naburi NasNaburi
A Little Peculiar borealis
218
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 07:58:00 -
[72] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Winthorp wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:words... Solid response, now if you can just give us back NPC kill API data i will think you are less of a shitcunt. I will just have to embrace being a shitcunt then... Which I think I am getting pretty good at these days.
You have my shovel and hayfork if you need a hand :) |
Janeway84
Masters Of Destiny Pride Before Fall
82
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 08:14:00 -
[73] - Quote
Don't remove the ingame browser! Its nice to pull upp killboards and wh info and wiki pages with and even reading news on You guys could update it some, maybe add flash support? or something.
|
Justin Cody
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
232
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 08:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Oh wow, this is a pretty amazing thread. Mostly filled with a lot of misunderstanding so let me see if I can clear that up before we get to the Jita riots. Before continuing though, please be advised this post comes to you from a phone and is therefore likely to be filled with even more terribleness than my usual posts. I may try and proof read this though.
So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon and defiantly not without a lot of discussion with the CSM and more importantly you guys. When I say not anytime soon I mean there is no plan to remove it, there is not even a plan to look into how much effort it would be to it. Removing the IGB is as best I can tell years away from happening.
So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.
So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it. The most common uses of the IGB are things like DOTLAN's radar or wormhole mapping software. Both those really just need your location information, which we can supply in the an even better way via CREST. Better CREST wouldn't require you to have the IGB open. Log into some website, give it permission to see your location, and even when you are not on that web site it know where you are. This means you get your whole corp to sign up and then only those looking at the mail need to open the browser. This is better in so many ways.
This is pretty much what I told a friend today before your response. Well I'd guessed at a browser extension...but yeah however you'll get CREST to work is how you'll do it. But unless there's a component to the SSO thing you all are working on that will help me...then this just makes it more of a pain in the rear...multiple monitors or not.
If all I have to do is be logged into EVE then fine...if it involves more work than current then it is a bad idea/implementation.
|
Rain6637
Team Evil
15296
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 08:22:00 -
[75] - Quote
while most of us might not have multiple monitors, those who do bring the average to 2 or more per capita. (foxfour i feel like you know me so well)
consider me consoled & comforted President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
336
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 08:22:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon For my very own advantage, I just hope this'll hold true and be somewhere in the range of decades to eternity. Unless there's a way to keep up the functionality to open ingame info within the client from external browsers. Would break a lot of my pages' features (which happen to be German language) if this gets lost. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15296
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 08:32:00 -
[77] - Quote
in related news: CREST is beginning to scare me. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Agrippa Hurt
The Coven's Spoon Corner Pub
3
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 09:05:00 -
[78] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:in related news: CREST is beginning to scare me.
GORGEOUS |
Agrippa Hurt
The Coven's Spoon Corner Pub
3
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 09:06:00 -
[79] - Quote
Naburi NasNaburi wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Winthorp wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:words... Solid response, now if you can just give us back NPC kill API data i will think you are less of a shitcunt. I will just have to embrace being a shitcunt then... Which I think I am getting pretty good at these days. You have my shovel and hayfork if you need a hand :)
One of my alts misses you and your songs. |
Agrippa Hurt
The Coven's Spoon Corner Pub
3
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 09:08:00 -
[80] - Quote
Kellie Dusette wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Winthorp wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:words... Solid response, now if you can just give us back NPC kill API data i will think you are less of a shitcunt. I will just have to embrace being a shitcunt then... Which I think I am getting pretty good at these days. Wow GÖí Pretty sure you just won EVE with that post, Ms FoxFour. How they going fixing that dress layering issue anyway?
Way better now, not up to the old days tho... It's missing some raw glamour. Now lemme check your sisters ^-^ |
|
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1829
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 10:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
I have removed replies to an edited out part of the post they quoted. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Winthorp
1848
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 10:21:00 -
[82] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:I have removed replies to an edited out part of the post they quoted.
I'm collecting you in my signature. *Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal.
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. |
Agrippa Hurt
The Coven's Spoon Corner Pub
4
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 10:56:00 -
[83] - Quote
lol my first forum horse kick provided by an ISD I'M HAPPY! !!! 1!! 11 |
corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
425
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 11:24:00 -
[84] - Quote
So I wake up to loads of people panicing, turns out there's nothing to worry about.
Thanks foxfour for posting before I even need to ask.
I see the war is still on going with isd and w-space. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
Winthorp
1856
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 11:30:00 -
[85] - Quote
corbexx wrote:I see the war is still on going with isd and w-space.
The war will consume many golden pods, but its monocles that will win the war. *Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal.
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. |
Moloney
Mass Effect Enterprises
66
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 11:38:00 -
[86] - Quote
Keep the in game browser!! Or provide an identical in game version of siggy!!
Edit: Hmm... A little late to the party me thinks... |
Sum Olgy
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
62
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 12:13:00 -
[87] - Quote
Technology moves on. CREST has the potential but I can't see it coming anytime soon, as CCP says.
So in essence nothing happening here for years - move along, nothing to see. |
JediMind Tricks
1st. Pariah Malefactor corp.
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 12:17:00 -
[88] - Quote
soooo many 1 monitor scrubs worrying about having to alt-tab to order a XXL pizza Stop being peasants and go buy another one
Still I think the IGB is a good thing, how else am I going to change the name of a link to PVP Drake and ask someone to check my fit, only when they open the link they get bombarded with grotty shizz |
Kynric
Sky Fighters
105
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 12:21:00 -
[89] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Oh wow, this is a pretty amazing thread. Mostly filled with a lot of misunderstanding so let me see if I can clear that up before we get to the Jita riots. Before continuing though, please be advised this post comes to you from a phone and is therefore likely to be filled with even more terribleness than my usual posts. I may try and proof read this though.
So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon and defiantly not without a lot of discussion with the CSM and more importantly you guys. When I say not anytime soon I mean there is no plan to remove it, there is not even a plan to look into how much effort it would be to it. Removing the IGB is as best I can tell years away from happening.
So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.
So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it. The most common uses of the IGB are things like DOTLAN's radar or wormhole mapping software. Both those really just need your location information, which we can supply in the an even better way via CREST. Better CREST wouldn't require you to have the IGB open. Log into some website, give it permission to see your location, and even when you are not on that web site it know where you are. This means you get your whole corp to sign up and then only those looking at the mail need to open the browser. This is better in so many ways.
The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.
I could go on listing so many other things but the bottom line is this: CREST is a far newer technology and more importantly one we can maintain far easier than the IGB. We would like to remove the IGB but we will not do so until CREST, or even maybe something else, gets us feature equal to the IGB.
Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. The benefits from us doing things through CREST and relying on you guys to use an existing browser are immense. We get to focus on making cool things instead of trying to maintain a customized browser in the client. Not sure you guys realize just how much work there is in maintaining something as complex as a browser and how much of a security problem for everyone this is.
Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.
I hope that elevates your concerns for now. Let's get back to blowing up spaceships and building an awesome universe together and enjoying the sun... Which I might be the only one doing :P
Thank you for the response. I still would be bothered by the loss of the I even in the context of CREST. I play full screen and don't like tabbing out. I only have one monitor but even if I had two sometimes I travel and while lugging the laptop is no big deal lugging a monitor would be. Also sometimes like with wormhole sigs a ctrl - copy is used to move the data to an entry field within an application of the IGB. That is likely not going to be possible if working across different devices.
|
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1829
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 12:24:00 -
[90] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.
30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.
CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.
I have also moved this thread to General Discussion as this topic is not only relevant to Wormholes, but especially considering the explanation given by CCP FoxFour, to all EvE players in general. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|
De'Veldrin
Black Serpent Technologies The Unthinkables
2494
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 12:46:00 -
[91] - Quote
JediMind Tricks wrote:soooo many 1 monitor scrubs worrying about having to alt-tab to order a XXL pizza Stop being peasants and go buy another one
So what you're saying is that everyone who has more than one monitor is a Fatty McFatterson who uses the second monitor solely to speed up their ability to inhale large amounts of calories at an ever increasing rate? Like little human black holes of foodstuffs? Is that what you're implying? HUH?!?! MAMBA is recruiting. -áWhen other folks are whining about a lack of content, we go out and create it. The case of Shrodinger's Hotdropper |
Nose' Feliciano
97
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 12:53:00 -
[92] - Quote
what is IGB? Ladies, you know what they say about guys with big noses right? Heh-heh!! That's right, it means they are either Jewish or Italian.
:P |
JediMind Tricks
1st. Pariah Malefactor corp.
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 12:56:00 -
[93] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:JediMind Tricks wrote:soooo many 1 monitor scrubs worrying about having to alt-tab to order a XXL pizza Stop being peasants and go buy another one So what you're saying is that everyone who has more than one monitor is a Fatty McFatterson who uses the second monitor solely to speed up their ability to inhale large amounts of calories at an ever increasing rate? Like little human black holes of foodstuffs? Is that what you're implying? HUH?!?!
Obviously! lets be fair siggy/dotlan/all that other stuff comes second to be being able to order fast food without having to turn your eyes away from eve for 2 seconds. If they took away the IGB im sure there would be more cases like that Chinese kid that forgot to eat for three days while playing WoW
All this talk of fast food really makes me want a pizza now.... Thanks for wrecking shotting my diet |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7135
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 12:57:00 -
[94] - Quote
Two step wrote:CCP should not remove the IGB, they should be devoting more effort to it, including more integration with the client. I should be able to drag items into the IGB.
If they want to remove it, I could imagine some of the functionality being replicated in CREST, for example things like location/ship type tracking. Until that is available, CCP should not even consider removing it.
+1. Removing the IGB is a terrible, dumb idea.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7135
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 13:01:00 -
[95] - Quote
Proclus Diadochu wrote:Austin K'Pfor wrote:PLEASE GOD NO I USE THIS IN EVERYDAY LIFE IN NEW EDEN ^ FUKUNG WILL LOSE SO MUCH TRAFFIC, CCP?!?!?! WHERE IS YOUR COMPASSION FOR SHITLERS EVERYWHERE?! WHY DO YOU WANT TO PROTECT LOCAL SO BAD?!?!
Fukung has at times been the only thing keeping me awake on those long patrols in deep space (ie sitting on a titan waiting for our cyno bait ship to find a pod or rookie ship for us to hotdrop with 70 HACs).
|
Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical Ineluctable.
410
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 13:01:00 -
[96] - Quote
Hatshepsut IV wrote:Sparrow Creature wrote:Right, because everyone living in WHs would just up and cancel their subscriptions. No one at all would even try to adapt. I completely agree with your assessment of what would come to pass.
I'm pretty sure you don't actually scan that much if you think removing our mapping tools is just a matter of 'adapting'. If someone takes away your eyesight you don't continue to drive by 'adapting'.
Mine along with many other corps dont use mapping tools. Its called having a good bookmark system and doing this thing called communicating. Im not saying the mapping tools arent good and make things easier but saying its impossible to work without them is incredibly idiotic.
That said.
Keep the IGB. It seriously shouldnt take that much dev time to keep up to date. |
Prince Kobol
1968
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 13:02:00 -
[97] - Quote
Jack Tronic wrote:http://show.gamingradio.net/2014/06/22/csm-9-townhall-1/ At around 59 minutes,
According to the latest CSM townhall. CCP is thinking about REMOVING the IGB. Apparently "issues" about the work maintaining the IGB. Also an CSM member says there is little interest in keeping it.
Ignoring the fact that the IGB helps in times of mining or shooting the worlds most boring NPCs. (Don't lie, C5/C6 sleeper sites are on autopilot at this point). The IGB is the only way our wormhole mapping tools remain valid.
Let this be a call to arms. Don't let CCP remove the IGB. Otherwise you'll also be forced to run two monitors to use an browser while playing EVE. You'll be forced to manually map wormholes/
Don't let this be an end of an era because CCP is delusional about the quality of their own content.
Yes, users of Tripwire, vippy, evewholes, and whatever the heck else is out there, this affects all of you.
You must all be vocal about how much you love the IGB.
Edit: EVE's new "SSO" is NOT a replacement. It is simply an authenication service and has no capability in providing the data that the IGB provides. Nor will it make your life convenient browsing the interwebs while autopiloting sleeper sites.
For me this is the biggest reason to get rid of the IGB.
|
Grog Aftermath
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 13:05:00 -
[98] - Quote
Never use it.
But then again I'm not interested in SSO either. |
Aebe Amraen
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
72
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 13:28:00 -
[99] - Quote
This is the first mention I have ever heard of CREST interacting with the client, rather than just with the server. Forgive me for misunderstanding something that CCP devs have never talked (publically) about before. The website <-> CREST <-> Server <-> Client route seems a bit unnecessarily circuitous, but if it provides the same functionality as the IGB javascript I can live with it. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
729
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 13:46:00 -
[100] - Quote
TEST Intel map uses features of the IGB. While it will work OOG, it works better through the IGB. Please do not remove it. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥ -Grath Telkin, 2014. |
|
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
250
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 13:55:00 -
[101] - Quote
Nose' Feliciano wrote:what is IGB? Incestual Goon Bromance |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
137
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 13:59:00 -
[102] - Quote
Removing the IGB is very bad idea. damn it is hard to delete my signature |
JediMind Tricks
1st. Pariah Malefactor corp.
2
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 14:03:00 -
[103] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Nose' Feliciano wrote:what is IGB? Incestual Goon Bromance
Idiotic goon brotherhood
man, i may make that my next corp name |
Elvis Fett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
249
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 14:08:00 -
[104] - Quote
Removing the IGB makes about as much sense as removing the Jukebox, none what so ever. So taking that into consideration, say goodbye to your IGB.
IGB = In Game Browser |
Dave stark
6518
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 14:09:00 -
[105] - Quote
i probably missed it but; if they remove the IGB what will happen when you click a link in a chat channel? Or are we just not going to have the functionality to open a link from a chat channel if the igb goes poof?
the only use my igb has is reminding me that it sucks and i need to paste that youtube link in to a non-****** browser to watch the video some one has sent me the link for.
|
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
211
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 14:11:00 -
[106] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Get rid of the IGB...for an in game browser that can actually load video.
+1
Senex Legio |
Nash MacAllister
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
144
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 14:50:00 -
[107] - Quote
As a WH corp, we use multiple tools on a continuous basis that all rely on the IGB. If you remove it and the functionality it provides, our life becomes much more difficult and without a doubt, activity levels will suffer.
Either update it, retaining compatibility with the existing IGB, or leave it alone. But do not remove it. Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you... |
Kaaeliaa
Ministry of War
1827
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 14:56:00 -
[108] - Quote
I play in true fullscreen. That isn't changing, so, don't do anything hasty. The IGB is outdated, but unless you give us more tools in the game's UI, it's necessary. |
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER CODE.
624
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 14:57:00 -
[109] - Quote
No matter how crappy and old the IGB is, it's still better than IE |
MHayes
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 15:14:00 -
[110] - Quote
I think Dev time is better used on other things.
Just run in a window and get 2 screens if browsing while playing is that important.
I do think that having more out of game tools in game would be nice but that is the beauty of the PC. We can do other stuff on them at the same time as playing a game. Dev time can be better used to do other stuff. |
|
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1389
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 15:20:00 -
[111] - Quote
Aquila Sagitta wrote:Remove IGB and replace with updated IGB pls pls pls
Gib html 5 and websockets plox!
This pretty much sums it up. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
48
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 15:26:00 -
[112] - Quote
They do not have enough people since laying off so many.
If they put some on the browser, a mini-patch will be pushed back 6 months. |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
498
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 15:33:00 -
[113] - Quote
Nose' Feliciano wrote:what is IGB?
Its that thing large black (or occasionally white) box that locks the game up for 10 seconds when you click a link in a chat channel.
|
Sarmatiko
1620
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 15:38:00 -
[114] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue.
Is there any official statistic on multimonitor usage or where does this "most of you" come from?
From my experience, possible removal of IGB will **** up help channels pretty bad. Quick puush image for newbie, showing where "feature N" is located? Image with ponies? Mod link check? You have to ALT-Tab. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Long requested HTML5 YouTube support? Nah! Lets just remove IGB instead!
-¥ |
Lugia3
Intentionally Dense Easily Excited
1013
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 15:47:00 -
[115] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. The benefits from us doing things through CREST and relying on you guys to use an existing browser are immense. We get to focus on making cool things instead of trying to maintain a customized browser in the client. Not sure you guys realize just how much work there is in maintaining something as complex as a browser and how much of a security problem for everyone this is.
Aaaaaaand nope!
Because everyone wants to copy-paste every reaction GIF from local into an external browser, taking precious time away by alt-tabbing and also losing window focus.
"CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6058
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 16:49:00 -
[116] - Quote
I have no idea what its for.
It never seems to work for me, and its really slow.
But I guess if it works for some people and its there, why remove it?
EDIT: NM, that was answered in the same Dev paragraph that suggested using out-of-game adaptations with my client (lol, not gonna happen) "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
|
Nose' Feliciano
99
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 17:09:00 -
[117] - Quote
wouldn't removing CQ be a better choice than IGB?
get you priorities straight CCP.
CQ is useless. IGB is useful. Ladies, you know what they say about guys with big noses right? Heh-heh!! That's right, it means they are either Jewish or Italian.
:P |
RoAnnon
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
366
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 17:21:00 -
[118] - Quote
KEEP the IGB!! So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter. |
Carmen Electra
subn3t
569
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 17:30:00 -
[119] - Quote
+1
Kill IGB. http://www.google.com/chrome |
Felicity Love
Ka'ra Shabuir Inc.
2003
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 17:37:00 -
[120] - Quote
Just get rid of "DUST", entirely, (not that SONY is doing so well these days) including it's limited and annoying overlap into this game -- and redirect some "human resources" to EVE and, in this case, any alleged issues with maintaining the IGB.
This (alleged? hypothetical?) "IGB" frenzy is not an issue, it's a symptom of the larger problem that is simply too few people are (again) spread too thinly across too many "projects".
Geeeee.... one might even say, hypothetically of course, just go ahead and sell the company, seeing as how recent downsizing might easily be construed, hypothetically of course, as the all too common restructuring tactic of making "the books" look more appealing to a potential white knight.
Hypothetically, of course.
"Psssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh" -á-- That ambiguous and pseudo-technical term used by management to describe, to staff, how frakking cool something looks inside their own heads.
|
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12297
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 17:41:00 -
[121] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:To be fair, WH mapping is the ONLY use for the IGB.
We have a shitton of things that use the IGB, it is a vital tool for null sec alliances. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
TharOkha
0asis Group
834
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 17:46:00 -
[122] - Quote
so after jukebox and ability to play all music (not just 5 repeating tracks if you live in one region) they are now removing IGB?.... wtf ? . |
TharOkha
0asis Group
834
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 17:48:00 -
[123] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jack Miton wrote:To be fair, WH mapping is the ONLY use for the IGB. We have a shitton of things that use the IGB, it is a vital tool for null sec alliances.
and not just that... what about all those funny gifs i have stored in my ingame notebook?
. |
Moth Eisig
Soliloquy Against Death
50
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 18:09:00 -
[124] - Quote
I will probably never use the IGB. ALT+Tab is easier and faster than fiddling with the min/max buttons in game, and the OOG browser actually works for everything. I don't even like using the IGB for mapping wormholes.
As far as situational awareness goes, I just put my overview/local/scanning windows on the right side of the client and snap my browser to the left side of the screen so when I'm using it I can still see everything important, so having two monitors isn't the only way to play and browse OOG at the same time.
But, does letting the IGB stay available actively hurt anything? |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2298
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 18:10:00 -
[125] - Quote
Don't remove it, add to it. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
626
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 18:13:00 -
[126] - Quote
The IGB, broken as it is, is useful to players. Therefore - CCP says it has to go. Live with it or quit. CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
|
Xeator
soldiers.fi
41
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 18:17:00 -
[127] - Quote
Even if CREST replaces tools like wormhole mappers and what not, what will happen to gif and jpg links? You need to pop out of client to view them? :( Thats not good.
I would much rather have IGB with greater/better support, even if it takes more effort.
And yes, even though it might be "years away", its still getting removed? I dont like it. |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
626
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 18:18:00 -
[128] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.
Like the CSM actually makes a difference in where CCP goes. CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5461
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 18:21:00 -
[129] - Quote
Help! Someone busted the brakes on this thing.
Should have come to a complete stop withing 3 posts of FoxFour's explanation. Then again, I think GD never had brakes installed in the first place.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Lykouleon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1412
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 19:16:00 -
[130] - Quote
Just to be sure, you do realize the IGB is a version of chrome, right?
Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword |
|
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
629
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 20:01:00 -
[131] - Quote
Lykouleon wrote:Just to be sure, you do realize the IGB is a version of chrome, right?
OMG, they did that to Chrome??
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
|
Nose' Feliciano
105
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 21:37:00 -
[132] - Quote
Well, whatever they come up with...please add a spell checker to it. Ladies, you know what they say about guys with big noses right? Heh-heh!! That's right, it means they are either Jewish or Italian.
:P |
Lailyana Enaka
Fruidian Logic The Harlequin's
179
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 21:45:00 -
[133] - Quote
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO KEEP the.. *reads FoxFours post, leaves satisfied* "Here's to the crazy ones. The Misfits, The rebels. The Troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes.-á |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15298
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 22:10:00 -
[134] - Quote
the real news is several more years of EVE are confirmed \o/ President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
631
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 22:32:00 -
[135] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:the real news is several more years of EVE are confirmed \o/
In her dreams. Pool is still open about December pink slips.
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
28226
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 22:52:00 -
[136] - Quote
I don't play the game in W-hole space like a lot of others posting here but I do play the game in full screen mode. Having to alt-tab out to find info on out of game browser and then click back in is a no go situation.
I use the IGB to access info from Evelopedia and various 3rd party sites.
CCP, keep the IGB.
DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
436
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 22:58:00 -
[137] - Quote
I never use it, so I wouldn't normally care one way or the other.
But I love forum tears. So please kill it will fire tomorrow. Turrents |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
654
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 23:19:00 -
[138] - Quote
What I don't get, is why anyone would play at full screen. I get infuriated when mmos developed today don't offer borderless windowed. I mean, what century are these people living in? full screen was out of date once DOS mode games became playable in a window.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23039
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 23:25:00 -
[139] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:What I don't get, is why anyone would play at full screen. I get infuriated when mmos developed today don't offer borderless windowed. I mean, what century are these people living in? full screen was out of date once DOS mode games became playable in a window. Because you don't want irrelevant bits of UI to intrude on your game, or the OS to start reacting to input you have no intent to give to the OS? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
654
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 23:28:00 -
[140] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Val'Dore wrote:What I don't get, is why anyone would play at full screen. I get infuriated when mmos developed today don't offer borderless windowed. I mean, what century are these people living in? full screen was out of date once DOS mode games became playable in a window. Because you don't want irrelevant bits of UI to intrude on your game, or the OS to start reacting to input you have no intent to give to the OS?
Never been an issue for me. Hell, when I did play EvE full screen it made doing anything else on my computer much more irritating.
|
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23039
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 23:42:00 -
[141] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Never been an issue for me. Hell, when I did play EvE full screen it made doing anything else on my computer much more irritating. Meh. vOv It's the opposite for me: Gîÿ-tabbing out has never been an issue or cause for irritation, but random bits of unrelated UI intruding on my game has. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
937
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 23:51:00 -
[142] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Val'Dore wrote:What I don't get, is why anyone would play at full screen. I get infuriated when mmos developed today don't offer borderless windowed. I mean, what century are these people living in? full screen was out of date once DOS mode games became playable in a window. Because you don't want irrelevant bits of UI to intrude on your game, or the OS to start reacting to input you have no intent to give to the OS?
Also full screen is often the optimal way to play on a laptop with a screen less than 1366.
Ignore the "only philistines use one screen" comments. They are just attention seeking and showing off along the same lines as the "how can you possibly play with out a force feedback stick, HOTAS, pedals and headtracker" comments you get in the flightsim community occasionally. It's basically saying "look at me I have a good rig". |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
737
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 23:52:00 -
[143] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:What I don't get, is why anyone would play at full screen. I get infuriated when mmos developed today don't offer borderless windowed. I mean, what century are these people living in? full screen was out of date once DOS mode games became playable in a window. Because when I'm playing Eve I refere to be immersed with the whole screen and hate having other things on my screen such as the windows bar / whatever. Not to mention when I'm playing, my pc is used solely to play Eve, aka I'm not browsing reddit, imgur, talking on steam or whatever else people do when they play.
Edit: Long story short, if a game (any game) can be played in fullscreen, I will play said game in fullscreen... Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Rankan
State War Academy Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 23:58:00 -
[144] - Quote
So when the IGB is finally removed and I have no choice but to ALT-TAB out to get some information that I would have previously gotten with the IGB while watching what I was doing in game, will you replace my stuff when I get blown up for being "AFK"?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23039
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 00:06:00 -
[145] - Quote
Rankan wrote:So when the IGB is finally removed and I have no choice but to ALT-TAB out to get some information that I would have previously gotten with the IGB while watching what I was doing in game, will you replace my stuff when I get blown up for being "AFK"? If you start saving now, you'll probably be able to afford a second screen (or a second computer) by then. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
737
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 00:08:00 -
[146] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Rankan wrote:So when the IGB is finally removed and I have no choice but to ALT-TAB out to get some information that I would have previously gotten with the IGB while watching what I was doing in game, will you replace my stuff when I get blown up for being "AFK"? If you start saving now, you'll probably be able to afford a second screen (or a second computer) by then. And what if he doesn't have the room for one (such as myself). Not to mention, people shouldn't have to buy a second monitor just to play EvE. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23040
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 00:14:00 -
[147] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:And what if he doesn't have the room for one (such as myself). Not to mention, people shouldn't have to buy a second monitor just to play EvE. They don't have to. It's just occasionally useful GÇö kind of like the current IGB.
Granted, if they manage to go through with what they're describing, any second screen will do, even your phone. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1764
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 00:16:00 -
[148] - Quote
Removal of the IGB would be nothing but detrimental to the community. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
364
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 02:37:00 -
[149] - Quote
I think the current IGB definitely needs nuking...
...in favour of something more modern like CEF (Chromium Embedded Framework). It's not that the IGB needs to go, just a massive overhaul. |
Lykouleon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1413
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 02:43:00 -
[150] - Quote
Jessica Danikov wrote:I think the current IGB definitely needs nuking...
...in favour of something more modern like CEF (Chromium Embedded Framework). It's not that the IGB needs to go, just a massive overhaul. It just needs to be updated to the latest (or, more appropriately, a much more recent version) of Awesomium.
Which is chromium... Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23043
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 02:43:00 -
[151] - Quote
Jessica Danikov wrote:I think the current IGB definitely needs nuking...
...in favour of something more modern like CEF (Chromium Embedded Framework). It's not that the IGB needs to go, just a massive overhaul. The IGB uses chromium. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
655
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 03:26:00 -
[152] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Val'Dore wrote:Never been an issue for me. Hell, when I did play EvE full screen it made doing anything else on my computer much more irritating. Meh. vOv It's the opposite for me: Gîÿ-tabbing out has never been an issue or cause for irritation, but random bits of unrelated UI intruding on my game has.
When you say random bits of UI, what are you talking about?
|
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
655
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 03:27:00 -
[153] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Val'Dore wrote:What I don't get, is why anyone would play at full screen. I get infuriated when mmos developed today don't offer borderless windowed. I mean, what century are these people living in? full screen was out of date once DOS mode games became playable in a window. Because when I'm playing Eve I refere to be immersed with the whole screen and hate having other things on my screen such as the windows bar / whatever. Not to mention when I'm playing, my pc is used solely to play Eve, aka I'm not browsing reddit, imgur, talking on steam or whatever else people do when they play. Edit: Long story short, if a game (any game) can be played in fullscreen, I will play said game in fullscreen...
EvE for me looks exactly the same as EvE does for you. Not considering graphics settings that is.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23043
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 03:33:00 -
[154] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:When you say random bits of UI, what are you talking about? Oh all kinds of things. Notifications, start menus, title bars, docks, widgets, those win7/win8 trinket whatchamacallits. All the stuff that some silly person thought should be proximity or gesture triggered.
Really, the key benefit of fullscreen is that it steals all focus and does not let anything else trigger based on your input unless you very specifically set it up that way. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1237
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 03:35:00 -
[155] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Seraph Essael wrote:Val'Dore wrote:What I don't get, is why anyone would play at full screen. I get infuriated when mmos developed today don't offer borderless windowed. I mean, what century are these people living in? full screen was out of date once DOS mode games became playable in a window. Because when I'm playing Eve I refere to be immersed with the whole screen and hate having other things on my screen such as the windows bar / whatever. Not to mention when I'm playing, my pc is used solely to play Eve, aka I'm not browsing reddit, imgur, talking on steam or whatever else people do when they play. Edit: Long story short, if a game (any game) can be played in fullscreen, I will play said game in fullscreen... EvE for me looks exactly the same as EvE does for you. Not considering graphics settings that is. The point is making sure things that aren't eve aren't there as much as possible. |
Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force The Kadeshi
356
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 05:34:00 -
[156] - Quote
why not just have the game call a 'real' browser like firefox, chrome or ie.....instead of a custom one? |
Illaren Zinfandel
Die Schar des Schwarzen Herzogs
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 05:39:00 -
[157] - Quote
Sorry ... i just have one monitor and therefore i am in need of the ingame browser ... so Please do not remove it! (and give us back the ingame music player!) |
Johnathan Roark
Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
5
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 05:49:00 -
[158] - Quote
Annette Nolen wrote:Haven't seen it called out yet but the ability to click on things on a page in the IGB and have it open in-game (showinfo on corps/players, contract details, system info, etc.) is pretty critical too. Losing this would REALLY hurt some tools/use-cases.
This is the biggest issue I see and there is no other way to do this. SSO will not help with opening info ingame and neither will CREST. If your are using IGB headers to authenticate, your doing it wrong. EVEVERIFY - A recruiting API Verification and Audit Tool
Also try out Yapeal for your php api needs |
Johnathan Roark
Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
5
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 06:00:00 -
[159] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote: The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.
I could go on listing so many other things but the bottom line is this: CREST is a far newer technology and more importantly one we can maintain far easier than the IGB. We would like to remove the IGB but we will not do so until CREST, or even maybe something else, gets us feature equal to the IGB.
Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. The benefits from us doing things through CREST and relying on you guys to use an existing browser are immense. We get to focus on making cool things instead of trying to maintain a customized browser in the client. Not sure you guys realize just how much work there is in maintaining something as complex as a browser and how much of a security
How much slower? Are we talking 30 seconds? Any longer then that I do not see as acceptable. There has to be a better way. When the old ingmae browser was removed and we got this one, we where told this one would be better and that it would be easier to update. I would look at other options other then just removal. EVEVERIFY - A recruiting API Verification and Audit Tool
Also try out Yapeal for your php api needs |
Vorll Minaaran
Centre Of Attention Middle of Nowhere
35
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 06:35:00 -
[160] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote: Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.
As it happened with the Jukebox? No, thanks then. |
|
Sodabro
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
450
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 07:02:00 -
[161] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:To be fair, WH mapping is the ONLY use for the IGB. clearly you haven't been trolling enough in the ingame channels. |
Sodabro
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
450
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 07:04:00 -
[162] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:why not just have the game call a 'real' browser like firefox, chrome or ie.....instead of a custom one? internet exploder is not a 'real' browser |
Mikael Menethil
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 09:30:00 -
[163] - Quote
I'm on dual monitors and I use the IGB daily. I could write a wall of text telling you how practical it is from a usability POV, but I see you already decided to remove it.
I bet most people don't use the Calculator or the Notepad either, why not remove those too?
Where do I find more info about this CREST thing? I'm not sure I understand what it is, from what I could find. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CREST_Documentation?_ga=1.8170800.328131516.1397476800 |
JediMind Tricks
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 09:41:00 -
[164] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:It's basically saying "look at me I have a good rig".
No, its saying im not a scrub and can get another screen.... a second hand one off ebay costs less than a plex
Can everyone that is still going ermahgerd ma brawzer read the devs comments before sperging out |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
379
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 10:21:00 -
[165] - Quote
JediMind Tricks wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:It's basically saying "look at me I have a good rig". No, its saying im not a scrub and can get another screen.... a second hand one off ebay costs less than a plex Can everyone that is still going ermahgerd ma brawzer read the devs comments before sperging out Eh, for me personally, it's less about being a "scrub", and more about space. My monitor is 50", and given the size of every desk I have seen that would fit in a corner of my living room, there's no way for me to set up a second monitor without it either being in the way of the first, or requiring me to turn 180 degrees, which is probably not a good idea while in space. I still have a couple of my old monitors laying around, so yeah, I've already tried. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
656
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 10:36:00 -
[166] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Val'Dore wrote:When you say random bits of UI, what are you talking about? Oh all kinds of things. Notifications, start menus, title bars, docks, widgets, those win7/win8 trinket whatchamacallits. All the stuff that some silly person thought should be proximity or gesture triggered. Really, the key benefit of fullscreen is that it steals all focus and does not let anything else trigger based on your input unless you very specifically set it up that way.
Well, guess I've never had that problem in any borderless windowed game I play. That's going all the way back to AO.
|
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2407
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 10:57:00 -
[167] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:To be fair, WH mapping is the ONLY use for the IGB.
it's also greatly useful when I'm looking up requisitions and stuff that're in EVEHQ. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2301
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 11:00:00 -
[168] - Quote
JediMind Tricks wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:It's basically saying "look at me I have a good rig". No, its saying im not a scrub and can get another screen.... a second hand one off ebay costs less than a plex Can everyone that is still going ermahgerd ma brawzer read the devs comments before sperging out Dev comments are like "ermahgerd we are too few to maintain certain level of features in game, better remove it before someone will starts yelling at us in office that its causing players rachitis of their disc drives."
When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
Victor Andall
592
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 11:51:00 -
[169] - Quote
EVE has an IGB? I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do? |
Khan Wrenth
Hedion University Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 12:17:00 -
[170] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:in related news: CREST is beginning to scare me.
Then just start buying Mirage parts. They're better anyway.
...*crickets*....
What, nobody here played Armored Core 3? You guys are missing out. |
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
2044
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 12:21:00 -
[171] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:When you say random bits of UI, what are you talking about? Are you trying to turn this into a nerf local thread?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
cyboman
Mafia Italiana
2
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 12:26:00 -
[172] - Quote
I think the IGB sucks. Alt-Tab if you need to. Play the game or watch a movie. If EVE bores you that much then quit... Can I request all of your stuff? |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
2044
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 12:41:00 -
[173] - Quote
cyboman wrote:I think the IGB sucks. Alt-Tab if you need to. Play the game or watch a movie. If EVE bores you that much then quit... Can I request all of your stuff? I don't think you quite understand the current situation.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Durzel
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
236
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 16:04:00 -
[174] - Quote
If an advertiser said "how can we get people to look away from what we're trying to get them to see?" you'd think they were mad, but removing the IGB is not so far removed from that.
If a game drops you to the desktop, or forces you to go there yourself, then you've lost them. They could quite easily get distracted by other stuff there, other games. Eve doesn't need less reasons to play.
Maybe there's a bit of hyperboly there, but as long as it's possible for people to paste links - and God knows they will in times of boredom and waiting, etc - then the game should be able to deal with that. The game really ought to provide everything one might need whilst playing it without having to look elsewhere at all.
The IGB should continue to exist in some form, and it would be fantastic if it was upgraded to support more modern technologies - but at the very least it should persist as is, for all the reasons already mentioned. Not everyone plays in windowed mode. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6079
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 16:06:00 -
[175] - Quote
Durzel wrote:
If a game drops you to the desktop, or forces you to go there yourself, then you've lost them. They could quite easily get distracted by other stuff there, other games. Eve doesn't need less reasons to play.
Yeah I find myself constantly accidently playing World of Tanks when I alt-tab to check a signature in wormhol.es. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
|
roigon
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
87
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 17:12:00 -
[176] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.
Dear mr Socks4
When can I expect to push a button in pyfa that will tell crest to buy the ship + modules + ammo in Jita on my jita alt, then create a contract with red frog to ship it to my staging system, then when I boot up pyfa again and it detects the contract has been finished it creates a contract to black frog to jump it to my low-sec home, then when that is finished tell crust to let my main character fit the ship and occupy it, then have pyfa present me with a notification that my ship is ready?
Something like 3 months sound do-able? |
Alina en Chasteaux
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 17:28:00 -
[177] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:It depends. If they can get SSO working, great, but alot (and I mean ALOT) of people play in fullscreen.
I'd honestly would kinda hate having to have an ipad next to me to monitor what I'm doing.. I would also like it too.
There are alot of people that use it, and removing it completely would hurt more people than it helped.
Update it, do SSO also, never worry about updating browser again. SSO will only be viable if you can either sign-in once for all your accounts / characters. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Unleashed Pestilence
826
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 18:03:00 -
[178] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Oh wow, this is a pretty amazing thread. Mostly filled with a lot of misunderstanding so let me see if I can clear that up before we get to the Jita riots. Before continuing though, please be advised this post comes to you from a phone and is therefore likely to be filled with even more terribleness than my usual posts. I may try and proof read this though.
So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon and defiantly not without a lot of discussion with the CSM and more importantly you guys. When I say not anytime soon I mean there is no plan to remove it, there is not even a plan to look into how much effort it would be to it. Removing the IGB is as best I can tell years away from happening.
So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.
So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it. The most common uses of the IGB are things like DOTLAN's radar or wormhole mapping software. Both those really just need your location information, which we can supply in the an even better way via CREST. Better CREST wouldn't require you to have the IGB open. Log into some website, give it permission to see your location, and even when you are not on that web site it know where you are. This means you get your whole corp to sign up and then only those looking at the mail need to open the browser. This is better in so many ways.
The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.
I could go on listing so many other things but the bottom line is this: CREST is a far newer technology and more importantly one we can maintain far easier than the IGB. We would like to remove the IGB but we will not do so until CREST, or even maybe something else, gets us feature equal to the IGB.
Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. The benefits from us doing things through CREST and relying on you guys to use an existing browser are immense. We get to focus on making cool things instead of trying to maintain a customized browser in the client. Not sure you guys realize just how much work there is in maintaining something as complex as a browser and how much of a security problem for everyone this is.
Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.
I hope that elevates your concerns for now. Let's get back to blowing up spaceships and building an awesome universe together and enjoying the sun... Which I might be the only one doing :P Thanks for the clarification. I'm glad that you are looking to improve third party app support, but some of us (eve those with multiple monitors) don't like having to alt tab to use other programs while gaming. I can appreciate that managing javascript security vulnerabilities can be difficult, but the igb, notepad, calculator, and (formerly) jukebox are some of the little features that really separate the user experience in eve from other online games. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6088
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 18:08:00 -
[179] - Quote
CCCP is thinking about removing the KGB
Is what I keep reading dammit "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
|
Enta Ozuwara
Brave Operations - Lollipop Division Brave Collective
22
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 23:04:00 -
[180] - Quote
Oh that's fun. Finally there's some reaction to this. Didn't expect anybody to follow up on this, the CSM seemed pretty dismissve when I asked this. Long story short I send word to the security guy a year ago, now heard after this particular employee leaving CCP that he did agree with me on the IGB as a severe security risk but his hands were bound by upper management.
Bascially someone puts some effort into this, all EVE players can get hacked by clicking a link ingame (that could be disguised as a contract or killmail or whatever) |
|
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
198
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 23:16:00 -
[181] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote: So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it. The most common uses of the IGB are things like DOTLAN's radar or wormhole mapping software. Both those really just need your location information, which we can supply in the an even better way via CREST. Better CREST wouldn't require you to have the IGB open. Log into some website, give it permission to see your location, and even when you are not on that web site it know where you are. This means you get your whole corp to sign up and then only those looking at the mail need to open the browser. This is better in so many ways.
I do not believe you will allow ~1.5k simulatenous requests from a single IP to CREST every second. Because I can tell you that that's the typical load the siggy's dedicated server manages on a weekend.
But here's the whole problem, you now need two monitors to effectively see what you could previously do with just one. Heck, if I'm already using two monitors with a client on each, where the heck do you expect me to display the browser at the same time if its not inside the client? Do you want to go and change how EVE renders so its always in the background? |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
656
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 23:39:00 -
[182] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Val'Dore wrote:When you say random bits of UI, what are you talking about? Are you trying to turn this into a nerf local thread?
No, I've given up on CCP seeing that particular light. Just like WTZ and other bad ideas left there to make things easier for lazy people.
|
xartin
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
14
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 01:37:00 -
[183] - Quote
The IGB should have been fed to wolverines years ago given how outdated it is and the gaping security threat it poses to every eve subscriber.
Chrome version 3 is nothing to laugh at when your a software publisher shipping insecure software to millions of users. CCP should be reported to some internet security oversight authority for doing this for the past 5 years.
It's the responsibility of software publishers to update and maintain software they publish even if it's from 3rd party sources (3rd party provided code repositories) such as chrome and chromium.
The version of chrome shipped with eve is vulnerable to remote exploits that have been widely published in news media and every vulnerability and known exploit on chrome's bug tracker afterwards.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2012/mar/08/pwn2own-chrome-hacked
Quote:The user is tricked into visiting a specially crafted web page hosting the exploit which will execute various payloads to ultimately download the Calculator from a remote location and launch it outside the sandbox (at Medium integrity level).
Sad thing is doing this to every eve user would be trivial if someone with malicious intent popularized a malicious website within the eve community. Said theoretical individual likely wouldn't be remotely installing calc.exe to eve subscribers pc's. |
Stu Pendisdick
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 02:19:00 -
[184] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it
Discussion.
Read that as "We don't give a merry mother f**k what 'you, the players' have to say about it, we'll do as we please and you'll just have to live with it."
No need to sugar coat it.
|
Anabella Rella
Gradient
1726
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 04:59:00 -
[185] - Quote
Jack Tronic wrote: But here's the whole problem, you now need two monitors to effectively see what you could previously do with just one. Heck, if I'm already using two monitors with a client on each, where the heck do you expect me to display the browser at the same time if its not inside the client? Do you want to go and change how EVE renders so its always in the background?
This! Maybe the leet types on the CSM all have multi-display setups but, I seriously doubt that to be the case for the majority of the player base. I have neither the desk space nor the inclination to purchase a second display just to play Eve. The IGB, like the Jukebox you unceremoniously axed, is a functional convenience feature that many people like myself use on a daily basis. Adding more output options to CREST won't allow me to quickly and easily view web links without having to leave the game. We already have to rely on an out of game solution to avoid the monotonous Eve soundtrack. How many more convenience features are CCP planning to dump? When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23079
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 05:16:00 -
[186] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:This! Maybe the leet types on the CSM all have multi-display setups but, I seriously doubt that to be the case for the majority of the player base. I have neither the desk space nor the inclination to purchase a second display just to play Eve. Do you have a phone?
Quote:We already have to rely on an out of game solution to avoid the monotonous Eve soundtrack. So what you're saying is that the removal of the jukebox didn't really change anything and that their reasoning for dumping it was pretty much spot on.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Erica Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin
12307
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 05:32:00 -
[187] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Help! Someone busted the brakes on this thing. Should have come to a complete stop withing 3 posts of FoxFour's explanation. Then again, I think GD never had brakes installed in the first place. Mr Epeen The best part of this thread (and pretty much one the greatest Dev posts I'd ever seen on here) was CCP FoxFour's reply to a comment by Winthorp on page 4, before it was deleted along with numerous posts quoting it. But I can confirm FoxFour did win the internets.
I WAS THERE.
Gÿá Part-time wormhole pirate | GÖí Full-time super model WH Blog | #420roloswag | Bio |
Hrald
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
127
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 06:10:00 -
[188] - Quote
The IGB is chrome 3. CHROME 3. Either needs to be updated or removed. CCP will probably go for removal since that's easier. |
Dieter Rams
The Nommo
94
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 14:26:00 -
[189] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called.
Or.... you could make the map useful in EVE and also add a wormhole mapping system +á la Siggy. Why does CCP have this fetish to leave features out for the community to build? Why must we rely on DOTLAN, Siggy and out of game fitting tools? Why do you think people are willing to buy multiple monitors just to be able to access information that should be available in game? Do you realize how crazy this all sounds? You have a great blind spot right here.
I think you've done a great job with the API CCP FoxFour, but lets not forget how long overdue this work is from the promises of CREST made 2 years ago. CCP is crap at managing expectations, you hype stuff like tessellation in a fancy demo at FanFest only to discard it completely the next year. It's no wonder CCP had to kick half the company. |
Tara Vorkosigan
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 15:39:00 -
[190] - Quote
What about those of us with low RAM? Firefox likes to omnom 40% of my System RAM or so. I can't afford more RAM, and I can't really have anything else running while I'm playing EVE. And I like being able to click on a fit and have it instantly pop up in EVE so I can save it. |
|
Sir Constantin
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 16:49:00 -
[191] - Quote
If you are low on ram don't touch the browser and you'll be fine. As far as I know the browser process will show up after you launch the browser ingame.
They can optimize the browser, there are open source browsers like kmeleon wich use less than 200MB ram. We don't need the browser for complex stuff, we need something simple for gifs and sites like dotlan, whormholes, evekill, etc.
Removing IGB is a dumb ideea. |
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
201
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 17:35:00 -
[192] - Quote
Dieter Rams wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. Or.... you could make the map useful in EVE and also add a wormhole mapping system +á la Siggy. Why does CCP have this fetish to leave features out for the community to build? Why must we rely on DOTLAN, Siggy and out of game fitting tools? Why do you think people are willing to buy multiple monitors just to be able to access information that should be available in game? Do you realize how crazy this all sounds? You have a great blind spot right here. I think you've done a great job with the API CCP FoxFour, but lets not forget how long overdue this work is from the promises of CREST made 2 years ago. CCP is crap at managing expectations, you hype stuff like tessellation in a fancy demo at FanFest only to discard it completely the next year. It's no wonder CCP had to kick half the company.
Because you'll end up with the bookmark system where you must share bookmarks with corp mates in the same alliance. And deal with the 5 max bookmarks per copy operation.
Honestly people making 3rd party tools is really not a big deal, it provides content generation that CCP themselves would be too overwhelmed to manage and keep up to date. However the big deal is support, the API and CREST are overdue. The IGB is dated.
CCP FoxFour wrote:There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. I hope to god that is a horrible joke that you need to use a 3rd application to fix the EVE experience. Do you realize that literally EVERYONE uses the IGB while mining because it is so broken and boring? Do you realize that literally EVERY new player uses it to read guides as they run missions?
Let me quote a random person I asked on the street
Quote: [17:43:11] XXX > fuckin overwolf [17:43:15] XXX > i never wanna use that
|
Arronicus
Caldari Navy Reconnaissance
1092
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 18:13:00 -
[193] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Oh wow, this is a pretty amazing thread. Mostly filled with a lot of misunderstanding so let me see if I can clear that up before we get to the Jita riots. Before continuing though, please be advised this post comes to you from a phone and is therefore likely to be filled with even more terribleness than my usual posts. I may try and proof read this though.
So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon and defiantly not without a lot of discussion with the CSM and more importantly you guys. When I say not anytime soon I mean there is no plan to remove it, there is not even a plan to look into how much effort it would be to it. Removing the IGB is as best I can tell years away from happening.
So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.
So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it. The most common uses of the IGB are things like DOTLAN's radar or wormhole mapping software. Both those really just need your location information, which we can supply in the an even better way via CREST. Better CREST wouldn't require you to have the IGB open. Log into some website, give it permission to see your location, and even when you are not on that web site it know where you are. This means you get your whole corp to sign up and then only those looking at the mail need to open the browser. This is better in so many ways.
The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.
I could go on listing so many other things but the bottom line is this: CREST is a far newer technology and more importantly one we can maintain far easier than the IGB. We would like to remove the IGB but we will not do so until CREST, or even maybe something else, gets us feature equal to the IGB.
Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. The benefits from us doing things through CREST and relying on you guys to use an existing browser are immense. We get to focus on making cool things instead of trying to maintain a customized browser in the client. Not sure you guys realize just how much work there is in maintaining something as complex as a browser and how much of a security problem for everyone this is.
Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.
I hope that elevates your concerns for now. Let's get back to blowing up spaceships and building an awesome universe together and enjoying the sun... Which I might be the only one doing :P
Pretty darn good for a post from your phone, aside from your tide shower ;)
Very interesting to know how CCP sees the situation. Personally, the only reason I use the IGB is for the sites like staticmapper that track your location. Definitely wouldn't have any issue with the IGB being gone if CREST does what it sounds like you can make it do, even if I do have concerns about other players intercepting personal location information (ingame, not IRL location) |
Tara Vorkosigan
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 21:30:00 -
[194] - Quote
Sir Constantin wrote:If you are low on ram don't touch the browser and you'll be fine. As far as I know the browser process will show up after you launch the browser ingame.
They can optimize the browser, there are open source browsers like kmeleon which use less than 200MB ram. We don't need the browser for complex stuff, we need something simple for gifs and sites like dotlan, whormholes, evekill, etc.
Removing IGB is a dumb ideea.
I'm actually agreeing with you. I can run the IGB just fine. But if I have to have Firefox open as well, it'll basically gimp both EVE and Firefox through lack of ram and having to use a page file. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient
1727
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 21:43:00 -
[195] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:This! Maybe the leet types on the CSM all have multi-display setups but, I seriously doubt that to be the case for the majority of the player base. I have neither the desk space nor the inclination to purchase a second display just to play Eve. Do you have a phone? Quote:We already have to rely on an out of game solution to avoid the monotonous Eve soundtrack. So what you're saying is that the removal of the jukebox didn't really change anything and that their reasoning for dumping it was pretty much spot on.
Yes, I have a smartphone with a small (compared to my computer display) screen. But, that misses the point. Why remove a convenient in-game feature that's widely used and force us to rely on a second display, a smartphone, tablet, etc.? As another poster pointed out, when the current IGB was created it was touted as a major upgrade in terms of both functionality and future maintainability. Was that all just hogwash? Was CCP being dishonest with us then or, are they being dishonest now?
As to the jukebox, you ignored my main point again; in order to get beyond hearing the same 4 tunes over and over we're supposed to use a 3rd party app whereas before we didn't. My question is where does this all end? Eve already relies far too much on 3rd party software and websites. I don't feel that dumping the IGB in favor of having to use yet another out of game program is the way to go. I've never played another game that required me to run multiple out of game programs in order to use features that were once (and should still be) built into the game client itself. When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23110
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 22:09:00 -
[196] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Yes, I have a smartphone with a small (compared to my computer display) screen. But, that misses the point. Why remove a convenient in-game feature that's widely used and force us to rely on a second display, a smartphone, tablet, etc.? As another poster pointed out, when the current IGB was created it was touted as a major upgrade in terms of both functionality and future maintainability. Was that all just hogwash? Was CCP being dishonest with us then or, are they being dishonest now? First of all, the question is whether it actually is widely used. Second of all, I'd imagine that the IGB is fairly easy to update. It's kind of the point of chromium. But even then, the question is if it's worth it. Even an updated IGB would not provide the benefits they're talking about.
Quote:As to the jukebox, you ignored my main point again; in order to get beyond hearing the same 4 tunes over and over we're supposed to use a 3rd party app whereas before we didn't. No, I didn't ignore it. I twisted it in a direction you didn't like. The old jukebox actually created exactly that problem because it was the only (hideously poorly-featured) music controller in the game. Anything in the game that triggered a track to play would reset the entire player and you'd be back to hear the same 4 tunes GÇö the one at the top of your list GÇö over and over againGǪ if you were lucky and it didn't just stop outright.
If you wanted proper music in EVE before, you still had to use an external media player. They just made a hard cut in what the in-game music player was used for: now it's only in-game music.
The reason we see so many third-pary applications is because they're simply vastly better than what the game has to offer. At that point, the question is whether it's worth the developers' time to implement or maintain code that will duplicate but always be inferior to the generally used and universally available options. If it already exists, why do it all over again, why do it badly, and why increase your workload by having to maintain this bad replication of functionality? The reason you don't see this in other games is because they don't have that built-in functionality and/or exactly zero third-party support. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12341
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 22:33:00 -
[197] - Quote
Tippia wrote:First of all, the question is whether it actually is widely used..
The entire CFC uses it in every activity we do. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
741
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 22:38:00 -
[198] - Quote
Tippia wrote:First of all, the question is whether it actually is widely used. There's ten pages of posts here and the gist of them ten pages is to not remove the IGB. Not to mention the sheer number of Wormholers that use static mapper and wormhol.es and a number of other sites within the IGB...
So yes, it is widely used... Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
erittainvarma
Fistful of Finns Triumvirate.
24
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 22:47:00 -
[199] - Quote
Second, third and fourth screens are for alts, not for some damn web browsers, you ****** dev!
Okay, I actually have only two screens. But at least with two screens the situation is that if I'm actually playing the game, using external browser is much more inconvenient than using IGB even if it's laggy at some sites. The problem with external browsers are that they always are either blocking the view or going invisible when you don't want them to. I haven't tried overwolf though, but I actually feel that IGB is just fine for my use (though I would love to see it play videos also, fleets would be much greater if opening videos would be as easy as gifs and images). |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23111
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 22:57:00 -
[200] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Tippia wrote:First of all, the question is whether it actually is widely used. There's ten pages of posts here and the gist of them ten pages is to not remove the IGB. Not to mention the sheer number of Wormholers that use static mapper and wormhol.es and a number of other sites within the IGB... Yes, but how many of thuse use it as an actual in-game browser rather than as a means to feed in-game data back and forth to out-of-game processing?
It's that last functionality that CREST is supposed to replace. The sites you listed are doing just that and seem to be pretty much exactly what CREST is aimed at. Granted, some sort of in-game data browser might be needed to view the output of that processing but really, that's not nearly as neat (or secure) as having a way to feed data back into the game through a purpose-built interface. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
|
Dyscordia
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
18
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 22:59:00 -
[201] - Quote
Tara Vorkosigan wrote:What about those of us with low RAM? Firefox likes to omnom 40% of my System RAM or so. I can't afford more RAM, and I can't really have anything else running while I'm playing EVE. And I like being able to click on a fit and have it instantly pop up in EVE so I can save it.
This is a good example of why third party applications or out of client solutions are a stop gap measure and not end goal for a your product IMHO. No one really wants to add more hard drive clutter and run more processes as a requirement to have the entire EVE experience. I've been around long enough to see many third party products and websites stop being supported (abruptly) or documentation grow stale because third parties are not bound by anyone to continue working on or growing their products because it's just a hobby. Some do. Bless them, but not all.
Quote:" From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. "
Metrics? I certainly do not have a second, third, or forth monitor. I have a Manhattan apartment and I cannot fit the NORAD war room on my desk just for gaming. I work in development and my users would be appalled if I made assumptions without any metrics or research when brainstorming functionality. Pictures on /r/eve/ of setups with LED lights behind their 2-4 monitors to set the mood is hardly the norm in my opinion. Not everyone cares enough to have an optimized computing set up that rivals small nations. They just want to hop in a space ship and shoot stuff. Using their one monitor. For folks like me who are completely fine with one monitor only, this seems like a step backwards regardless if it is a new technology or not.
When I first saw EVE in 2005, the fact that it had an in game browser mind blowing and a huge selling point to me that this is a pretty advanced game (at the time) and convinced me to start a pilot. When I am being told the next generation solution to the IGB is API and third party development, I am less than enthused. In fact it seems like more work than it's worth to me. I'll just alt tab to chrome, PYFA or whatever else third party app I have to use because useful information is clunky to navigate to in the EVE client if that useful information even exists at all... unless CREST is mind blowing and can be easily demonstrated. The IGB was easy enough - you open the Browser and low and behold, it's a Browser! No tutorial required. You can surf the net just like Firefox. It's about the only thing that is easy out of the box with EVE. I am already anticipating a Community Spotlight where you showcase a few CREST highlights and discuss what an overlay is within two paragraphs, then the post gets buried under years of other community spotlights and anyone coming into the game after X date has no idea what what this even is without digging to find info that may or may not be stale. They get called a noob on some forum for asking questions and quit.
The main take away form this post is that as a veteran (like most of your subscription base), I am not getting any younger and patience diminishes every year for solutions that are actually more complicated than its predecessor and requires tutorials or research (which isn't just a CCP trend, it seems like an industry thing). Apple iPhones revolutionized its market by adding a simple, yet functionally advanced phone with features a blackberry could already theoretically do (but in much a more cumbersome way). How is RIM doing these days? Answer: Interest and enthusiasm for Blackberries is non-existent. I just had to check yahoo finance for RIMM/BBRY stock ticker to see if they even still exist. It's abysmal but it's still there.
The IGB may be archaic, a security risk and have a slew of negative marks on why it has to go. I can appreciate that. But CREST/API/3rd Parites will have big shoes to fill in terms of simplicity, ease of use and function. Losing the IGB is simply something I am not looking forward to in all honesty. You don't have a very easy sell. If this is the route you want to go, I recommend a well thought out rollout and CREST Support system. The IGB has been a staple feature since the beginning that is ever present because I locked it to my neocom bar. I am sure countless others have done the same. I wouldn't take this change too lightly. |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
741
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 23:10:00 -
[202] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Seraph Essael wrote:Tippia wrote:First of all, the question is whether it actually is widely used. There's ten pages of posts here and the gist of them ten pages is to not remove the IGB. Not to mention the sheer number of Wormholers that use static mapper and wormhol.es and a number of other sites within the IGB... Yes, but how many of thuse use it as an actual in-game browser rather than as a means to feed in-game data back and forth to out-of-game processing? It's that last functionality that CREST is supposed to replace. The sites you listed are doing just that and seem to be pretty much exactly what CREST is aimed at. Granted, some sort of in-game data browser might be needed to view the output of that processing but really, that's not nearly as neat (or secure) as having a way to feed data back into the game through a purpose-built interface.
Okay, I know several people personally who use the IGB (including myself for the first one) for things like google translate (even though its not to great due to slang type in languages, but you can usually get the general gist of the conversation or what has been said), for things like Eve survival, and a multitude of other sites that help them with their industry and manufacturing or missions etc. I know several PvPers who use it to quickly browse killboards if theyre looking to pick and choose fights...
I can't be the only person in the entirity of the game who knows people that uses the IGB as a browser...
And not to be funny, but using WH mappers through the IGB is still using the IGB. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23111
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 23:20:00 -
[203] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:And not to be funny, but using WH mappers through the IGB is still using the IGB. Yes, but it's a fairly silly and cumbersome hack compared to just automatically feeding the data to an external processor. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12342
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 23:25:00 -
[204] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Seraph Essael wrote:And not to be funny, but using WH mappers through the IGB is still using the IGB. Yes, but it's a fairly silly and cumbersome hack compared to just automatically feeding the data to an external processor.
Better than tabbing out. We have a whole host of tools we use via the IGB that simply would be a nightmare to use if we had to tab out of the game all the time. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Dyscordia
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
18
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 23:49:00 -
[205] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tippia wrote:Seraph Essael wrote:And not to be funny, but using WH mappers through the IGB is still using the IGB. Yes, but it's a fairly silly and cumbersome hack compared to just automatically feeding the data to an external processor. Better than tabbing out. We have a whole host of tools we use via the IGB that simply would be a nightmare to use if we had to tab out of the game all the time.
I agree - I already alt+tab out of EVE to play EVE too much already.
The prospect of having to use a third party overlay instead of alt tabbing is almost a step in the right direction. Almost.
IIRC, I remember reading years ago that one of the reasons CCP never allowed third parties to develop complete UI redesigns & custom plugins to allow advanced readouts like in other games is that it would give the fully customized pilot using third party setups a distinct advantage in EVE PVP over new users or users that opt out of third party plug ins. So they never explored this avenue for this level of third party integration. I actually don't know much about CREST nor do I want to spend the time reading up on a feature that may or may not be implemented in the far future. But it sounds like it could be leveraged somewhat in this capacity. One thing that is true in EVE is information in king.
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
173
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 23:58:00 -
[206] - Quote
Hatshepsut IV wrote: All garbage aside, I will not accept the possibility of them letting us use SSO to migrate our mapping tools over as a reason not to raise hell until they give us 100 percent concrete proof that they will do so.
Can/might/should is not will. There is lots of stuff they could do but won't our haven't.
Mapping tools are bread and butter to the entire way of life of wormhole corps who roll and scan out 10-20 chains a day. Doubly so if you have multiple corps in an alliance. They function to give a unified map to make your bookmarks match up.
It costs them nothing to leave the IGB in exactly as is now, it hurts noone by doing something.
It hurts an entire player base removing it for no other reason then certain people don't use/like it as much as some of us.
But...I don't really care either. If I can't view You Tube in it, get rid of it.... |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
741
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 00:11:00 -
[207] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tippia wrote:Seraph Essael wrote:And not to be funny, but using WH mappers through the IGB is still using the IGB. Yes, but it's a fairly silly and cumbersome hack compared to just automatically feeding the data to an external processor. Better than tabbing out. We have a whole host of tools we use via the IGB that simply would be a nightmare to use if we had to tab out of the game all the time. Yep, exactly this. Alt + tabbing to check ever single wormhole, every single day. I must go through at least 15+ wormholes in a single scanning / maping session somedays. To tab out on each of them would be quite frankly, a pain in the ass. Then theres the checking of killboards if I find a lone Drake in a hole ratting to see if he ever flies alone or acts as bait. Etc etc. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
105
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 03:10:00 -
[208] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.
It's too damn early in the morning to tell really bad jokes, FoxFour. |
Justin Cody
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
234
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 03:15:00 -
[209] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:Lykouleon wrote:Just to be sure, you do realize the IGB is a version of chrome, right? OMG, they did that to Chrome??
its part of the webkit that chrome is based on yes...but it is not chrome. Although they could easily update the browser as it exists right now simply by updating the toolkit. It would be a very small and significant patch. Probably result in another boot.ini incident somehow so it is avoided :-P. |
Justin Cody
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
234
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 03:16:00 -
[210] - Quote
it is missing Chrome's V8 Java engine for one...its missing html 5 support...flash or any other application that requires escalating system privileges. |
|
Starden Arnolles
Phoibe Enterprises
18
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 04:21:00 -
[211] - Quote
I fear the developers are confusing figuring out how to make their jobs easier with figuring out how to improve the game.
|
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement Limited Expectations
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 10:00:00 -
[212] - Quote
the EVE browser is, altrough crappy, a very usefull tool. alt-tabbing in a pvp situation to get a promo or view player kill history isn't an option i'd like. Not to mention all the funny gif's and naked anime girls being linked in local chat.
How about fixing it, so instead a CCP-browser it would just be a i-frame (or whatever) of user's regular browser? That way all www features would work and it would be easy to maintain. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1356
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 11:33:00 -
[213] - Quote
IGB ruins wormhole gameplay. Also remove POS from wormholes. The Tears Must Flow |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
106
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 19:47:00 -
[214] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:IGB ruins wormhole gameplay. Also remove POS from wormholes.
As a former WH resident, the IGB is a very valuable tool in wormholes. Please tell us how it ruins wormholes, and tell us exactly how many wormholes you've been in. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1830
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:10:00 -
[215] - Quote
IGB should be updated. It's still pretty buggy and problematic. I don't know if they ever fixed the problem with it "hanging" after exiting the client. That used to prevent the patches from applying, until you manually killed process on it.
The IGB is part of EVE. And considering the fact that some folks are still pissed about the Jukebox, it should probably stay. But it should definitely be updated and improved. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
495
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 01:20:00 -
[216] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:IGB ruins wormhole gameplay. Also remove POS from wormholes. As a former WH resident, the IGB is a very valuable tool in wormholes. Please tell us how it ruins wormholes, and tell us exactly how many wormholes you've been in.
Roleplayers like to roleplay exploration. |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
106
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 01:24:00 -
[217] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:IGB ruins wormhole gameplay. Also remove POS from wormholes. As a former WH resident, the IGB is a very valuable tool in wormholes. Please tell us how it ruins wormholes, and tell us exactly how many wormholes you've been in. Roleplayers like to roleplay exploration.
How is mapping the ever-changing routes in and out of your wormhole roleplay? Go read up on wormholes before attempting to astound us with your ignorance.
If that was the case, one might say your alliance was role-playing it's name... |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
627
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 06:38:00 -
[218] - Quote
I take it, EVE-cost, $RandomSearchEngineSite$, EVElopedia, Killboard-sites, Dscan tools, Market sites, etc. pp. are all accessible via CREST? |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
717
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 07:23:00 -
[219] - Quote
While the IGB is quite outdated, it still serves a great purpose, if it's ever going to be removed, they better replace it with something that has a similar function, AKA a new IGB!
The IGB is a great tool in sharing information about the game & tools, it's also a wonderful tool to easely spread information about planned events and events that have occured, without filling up mailboxes with hundreds of mails!
While I agree that my newsblog is little compared to more estabilished news-sites, the fact you can call up various eve-related news-sites adds to the immersion of Eve, a great aspect. Want to know more about that big BR-5 battle? Check out one of the big Eve news-sites. Looking for some specific market-related eve news? there's quite some newsblogs from marketeers out there to consult!
The fact you can do all that ingame, adds to Eve's experience of being part of a large space-simulation, checking relevant news while you travel your ship across space! The moment you got to alt-tab, it breaks that immersion, like it would in any other game where you got to alt-tab out to get some info. Eve Online Hold'Em; Play poker for real isk! -á-áFederation hands over historical Caldari capital to the State |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
151
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 08:20:00 -
[220] - Quote
Preserve IGB functionality in some way and release that tool/endpoint/API before removing IGB and make sure it's 100% compatible with current feature set.
Or just run in an update to the IGB.
Too valuable to let go at this point. |
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Serene Repose
1431
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 08:26:00 -
[221] - Quote
A CSM said there's NO INTEREST IN THE INGAME BROWSER????
I told everyone they're a bunch of dolts and can't be trusted. They do NOT speak for US. Never have. Never will.
Three things loft EVE's user interface into the enviable altitude of exceptional for gaming; a) The calculator, b) The notepad and C) THE BROWSER (godammit - do we really have to be having this conversation?)
What makes the browser so significant is how it ties the game into third party applications which are all the envy of the gaming world. This especially means the EVE-Survival mission reports. One can have a mission in the browser while conducting the mission, so as not to BLUNDER. This isn't an every now and then use. There are also the vast supply of market analysis tools, being able to consult EVE UNI at WILL....I mean, really.
THE CSM MEMBERS should be allowed to participate in this discussion only as PLAYERS. THE CSM should have NO influence or say over a decision like this.
They operate outside the playerbase as a whole, and do not represent EVE's player base as a whole.
KEEP THE BROWSER, goddamit, WE NEED IT. In fact, we'd rather see it improved upon, and not ditched. I'd be willing to pay more for my subscription if need be, rather than lose any one of these three features. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
Slymah
Reoples
206
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 06:09:00 -
[222] - Quote
I've never logged into EVE without using the IGB.
Glad it wont be a real consideration for a couple years but still.. You're making that Jita statue nervous. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
958
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 06:23:00 -
[223] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:A CSM said there's NO INTEREST IN THE INGAME BROWSER????
I told everyone they're a bunch of dolts and can't be trusted. They do NOT speak for US. Never have. Never will.
I put the CSM comment into google translate.
What came out was:
There is NO INTEREST IN THE INGAME BROWSER (from people involved in Tournament play or big nullsec fleet battles and hence it is unnecessary) . |
Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
380
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 13:46:00 -
[224] - Quote
Do people really sit around thinking up these sorts of changes, then complain how the world is turning bad on them? I really can't believe I read this..."thinking" of losing the in-game browser. I'd suggest whomever is engaged in this sort of thought change the subject of their thoughts to something less eventful like - "should I do my nails, or wait?"
Is there any way we can get a rope around these people to prevent them from having any influence on not only this game, but other things in life as well? I tell you, if we can't we're in real trouble here...not just in this game, but....
I think I'll go sit in stunned silence for a while. Get rid of the in-game browser...
OUTRAGEOUS. Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to. |
Christina Project
Deeper Feelings Inc.
285
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 14:10:00 -
[225] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:Do people really sit around thinking up these sorts of changes, then complain how the world is turning bad on them? I really can't believe I read this..."thinking" of losing the in-game browser. I'd suggest whomever is engaged in this sort of thought change the subject of their thoughts to something less eventful like - "should I do my nails, or wait?" Is there any way we can get a rope around these people to prevent them from having any influence on not only this game, but other things in life as well? I tell you, if we can't we're in real trouble here...not just in this game, but.... I think I'll go sit in stunned silence for a while. Get rid of the in-game browser... OUTRAGEOUS. Doing the nails can actually be pretty eventfull, you know? :p It's funny how she changed her mains portrait,-ábecause all her alts look pretty much like her. Took her a long while to finally realize.-á(: -álol Phantomime.
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Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
283
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 17:05:00 -
[226] - Quote
The fact that CCP is even considering doing away with the IGB shows just how out of touch they are with the needs and wants of the average player. I use the IGB every time I'm logged in because it allows me to check various sites without having to leave the Eve client. To me this is an important feature.
CREST may be awesome but, it's a developers tool. It means nothing to the average player. To even equate CREST with the way we use the IGB for looking at links, accessing websites, etc. is simply ludicrous. It's not the same, CCP! Not even close.
Please stop taking away in game features and forcing us to rely on third party apps, dual monitors and other unnecessary workarounds! |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Unleashed Pestilence
844
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 17:14:00 -
[227] - Quote
First, I agree with most of your post Anabella
Anabella Rella wrote:Why remove a convenient in-game feature that's widely used and force us to rely on a second display, a smartphone, tablet, etc.? Security. Try reading the other posts.
Anabella Rella wrote:As another poster pointed out, when the current IGB was created it was touted as a major upgrade in terms of both functionality and future maintainability. Was that all just hogwash? Was CCP being dishonest with us then or, are they being dishonest now? What the hell does being wrong have to do with being dishonest? Technology has changed a huge amount in the past 11 years, and expecting the best solution to a problem to stay constant with the advent of new technologies is asanine, ignorant, and plain stupid. Many of the technologies CCP is replacing the IGB with did either did not exist at the time that the IGB was added, or were very recent and untested at the time. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
rswfire
Firesworn Nation
180
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 19:49:00 -
[228] - Quote
That is probably the longest post I've ever read from you, and you did it from a phone. Kudos.
I think you point out many of the concerns and offer potential solutions to them, but none of the solutions will fix the main issue with removal of the IGB: The fact that if it is removed, we cannot use the browser in game! You are essentially forcing us to alt-tab or use a second screen if you remove the IGB and this is bad for {many reasons}. That said, the fact the IGB is based on IE6 (afaik) is also really awful and I can understand that it is challenging to update this to a more modern browser while remaining secure. I haven't really looked into this myself but I suspect that there are modern browsers with embeddable features to them; perhaps you could look into that. The IGB is an integral part of Eve and CREST cannot replace it; it can only enhance some things, but it cannot replace the IGB. About Us .|. Facebook .|. Google+ .|. Steam .|. Twitter .|. Youtube |
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
211
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 20:09:00 -
[229] - Quote
rswfire wrote:That is probably the longest post I've ever read from you, and you did it from a phone. Kudos. I think you point out many of the concerns and offer potential solutions to them, but none of the solutions will fix the main issue with removal of the IGB: The fact that if it is removed, we cannot use the browser in game! You are essentially forcing us to alt-tab or use a second screen if you remove the IGB and this is bad for {many reasons}. That said, the fact the IGB is based on IE6 (afaik) is also really awful and I can understand that it is challenging to update this to a more modern browser while remaining secure. I haven't really looked into this myself but I suspect that there are modern browsers with embeddable features to them; perhaps you could look into that. The IGB is an integral part of Eve and CREST cannot replace it; it can only enhance some things, but it cannot replace the IGB.
It is based on Chromium not IE. Thanks for ignoring 90% of the thread. |
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption Space Wolves Alliance
97
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 21:52:00 -
[230] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Things like Overwolf I think it's called.
Just addressing this part, because overall, removing the IGB is a terrible idea. Just update it to a better version of chrome .
As for overwolf...Its trash, please dont encourage or push strongly for people to use overlay programs. We wouldnt have to use overlays in the first place if the in game tools and UI werent **** to begin with. Luckily, with EvE, its not mandatory to use an overlay or extra "add-ons and mods" to do well; like some other games. |
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Ursula Thrace
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
241
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 00:46:00 -
[231] - Quote
honestly, i use the IGB, but if CCP decided to nix it, you wouldn't catch me crying in the corner with a bowl of porridge. change is good. eve online original intro
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Rumtin
Imperium Technologies Evictus.
85
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 13:45:00 -
[232] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote: Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.
I hope that elevates your concerns for now. Let's get back to blowing up spaceships and building an awesome universe together and enjoying the sun... Which I might be the only one doing :P
Riiight, like how we had that big, huge, long discussion before you arbitrarily removed the Jukebox? Guess we all missed that discussion.
Why is it so hard for CCP to keep hold of the good extras in EvE? Complaining about how its "extra work" to properly maintain these features is silly. Havent you ever heard of Job Security!? While you guys are off gutting EvE Online to make it as maintenanceless as possible, guess ill be off looking for a new pass-time with the rate this is going. |
Enta Ozuwara
Brave Operations - Lollipop Division Brave Collective
22
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 21:56:00 -
[233] - Quote
Justin Cody wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:Lykouleon wrote:Just to be sure, you do realize the IGB is a version of chrome, right? OMG, they did that to Chrome?? its part of the webkit that chrome is based on yes...but it is not chrome. Although they could easily update the browser as it exists right now simply by updating the toolkit. It would be a very small and significant patch. Probably result in another boot.ini incident somehow so it is avoided :-P.
It is Chrome. Chrome 3. Chromium Embedded Framework wrapped in Awsomnium to be precise. It has V8, or at least a very early version of it. It doesn't have HTML5 because that was in the very early stages when Chrome 3 came out. You might not realize it, but that was 6 years ago. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient
1729
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 05:53:00 -
[234] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:First, I agree with most of your post Anabella Anabella Rella wrote:Why remove a convenient in-game feature that's widely used and force us to rely on a second display, a smartphone, tablet, etc.? Security. Try reading the other posts. Anabella Rella wrote:As another poster pointed out, when the current IGB was created it was touted as a major upgrade in terms of both functionality and future maintainability. Was that all just hogwash? Was CCP being dishonest with us then or, are they being dishonest now? What the hell does being wrong have to do with being dishonest? Technology has changed a huge amount in the past 11 years, and expecting the best solution to a problem to stay constant with the advent of new technologies is asanine, ignorant, and plain stupid. Many of the technologies CCP is replacing the IGB with did either did not exist at the time that the IGB was added, or were very recent and untested at the time.
The latest iteration of the IGB is nowhere near 11 years old. It was demoed and a tech overview of it was given at Fanfest 3-4 years ago.
What I was getting at was the fact that at the time the current Chromium-based IGB was introduced, CCP stated that it was not only a better solution technologically but would be far easier to iterate on. Now FoxFour is saying just the opposite. So, which is it? When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around. |
Dyscordia
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
20
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 07:28:00 -
[235] - Quote
Ursula Thrace wrote:honestly, i use the IGB, but if CCP decided to nix it, you wouldn't catch me crying in the corner with a bowl of porridge. change is good.
Losing your leg and getting a prosthetic leg is change. For me personally, I wouldn't consider that good even if the fake leg is more durable. I see this situation in much the same way.
If the IGB has to go due to lack of CCP resources/interest to support it and keep it secure, so be it. I'm also going to have strong feelings about this proposal since it effects my game play in a dramatic way. I am also going convey concerns while this is just a preliminary and probably 1/2 baked idea. To me, when I am told CREST is going to replace the IGB - it sounds like someone is saying 'your 10 year old Toyota has to go, but don't worry we are giving you these brand new leather BMW bucket seats to help you get to where you need to go. Now just go ask someone to design a sports car around it for you, I'm sure it will be an unbelievably amazing car. Good luck!'
Giving third party developers slick tools is actually a great thing to do - it enhances the game experience. Pawning off parts of your application because you do not want to support it and expecting third party developers to pick up slack and manage expectations does not enhance the game experience. It does the opposite. Third party developers can do some amazing things, I agree, but they are entitled to lose interest and stop supporting a a product, not share their products with the community at large, or simply move on to other non-CCP projects/hobbies. They don't even have to tell us they quit.
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Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
154
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 09:34:00 -
[236] - Quote
Let's take a travel tool most of galactic north and west use, currently it just spots your current system and updates that system when you're en route to show the current one + has nifty things like info on people getting podded or someone declaring a system hot (on top of route opmitization, system avoidance, JB's, security status diversion and dozens of other nice things).
Instead of having all the info going: IGB -> External server -> IGB
it has to go: Eve Cliend (EC) -> CREST -> External server -> CREST -> EC (or worse: EC -> client computer -> CREST -> client -> external server -> client -> CREST -> client -> EC)
If CREST has a hiccup of 30 seconds, the tool is useless, same as if the external server has a hicup. Problem is that API and CREST are notoriously bad at staying up even after all the lovely and beautiful effort CCP has done. It's an extra layer of complexity which can break easily.
Best thing for CCP would be gauging the total usage of in-game browser and the amount of calls it is making to external services, simulating that increased load on CREST and see how badly it dies. |
E1ev1n
Top Gear Construction
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 13:25:00 -
[237] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:...1 So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.
...2 The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.
... In regards to 1 you are absolutely correct. Not only would it hurt our gameplay but it would likely impact 3rd party devs in ways we don't yet understand. In fact if you look at sites like battleclinic or incursion community's websites and how the fits are displayed on them it seems that there are alot of things that work really well with the game having an IGB.
In regards to 2, I think that added functionality of the IGB would be more desirable, perhaps by updating the CHROME engine to a newer version that supports HTML5. This would (as far as I can tell based on some tests with different browsers) allow sites like youtube to display content which can be beneficial to new pilots and old pilots alike. |
Draconas109
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 14:32:00 -
[238] - Quote
Uhh, I use the IGB to help with shopping lists and auto-scrolling my buy/sell orders, something an OGB WILL NOT do, +1 for keeping the outdated thing |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
133
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 14:58:00 -
[239] - Quote
You kids are spoiled. When I started playing Eve, there was no IGB.
It was horrible. |
Freelancer117
so you want to be a Hero
217
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 21:17:00 -
[240] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:
So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it.
Why are you selling CREST so much, when we have NOT seen anything of CREST atm as a practical large scale utility option.
I would like to remind CCPgames of their visions of grandeur that have been raised to the public and never seen the light of day, has been poorly implemented, or till today has not been itterated on properly.
I could give you more then a couple examples of the companies ideas since end 2008 which, perhaps like CREST, have not been recieved well.
Please before you go down the path of deleting current code in favor of potential new features that may or may not see a proper installtion on our clients, give us the customers the ability to review and evaluate both options so we can have some choice in the matter, apart from voting with our wallets if we do not like it at all. Eve rule no.1: The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
212
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 03:50:00 -
[241] - Quote
Enta Ozuwara wrote:Justin Cody wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:Lykouleon wrote:Just to be sure, you do realize the IGB is a version of chrome, right? OMG, they did that to Chrome?? its part of the webkit that chrome is based on yes...but it is not chrome. Although they could easily update the browser as it exists right now simply by updating the toolkit. It would be a very small and significant patch. Probably result in another boot.ini incident somehow so it is avoided :-P. It is Chrome. Chrome 3. Chromium Embedded Framework wrapped in Awsomnium to be precise. It has V8, or at least a very early version of it. It doesn't have HTML5 because that was in the very early stages when Chrome 3 came out. You might not realize it, but that was 6 years ago.
Actually a large chunk of CSS3 works just fine if you use the -webkit prefix. (I use HTML5/CSS3 in siggy just fine) That variant of Chromium also had video, flash support,etc but its an option to disable in Awesomium so guess what CCP did ;) |
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