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Why dont you go to 0.0 Space?

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Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:40:00 - [1] It seems to me that the EvE community is very close minded regarding where you are located in space while you are playing EvE. Some people perceive that living in 0.0 space as the only real EvE gameplay that is valid, and that those people that dont wish to go to 0.0 space are cowards, losers. Even piracy in 0.1 - 0.4 space is frowned apon by 0.0 inhabitants even though its probably the most unrewarding and consequential form of PvP in the game (sec hits, gate guns, less visibility and less toys). So why dont you go live in 0.0 and stop being a coward or a loser?, heres your chance to tell it straight to the 0.0 people who constantly pester you about it. Myself I spend my entire day, everyday with people, driving me nuts, asking me to help them do this and that. When I come home I have to look after my kids, get them dinner and help with homework etc. When I finally get to play EvE I DONT want to spend anymore time then necessary interacting with more people. Now the way I see 0.0 space is its both solo and group playable however the solo play is extremely risky and takes a lot of situational awareness which is very time intensive. Combat in 0.0 is usually group combat although I have done some solo indy killing. But with instas and wcs on most of the 0.0 guys its not very efficient compared to empire space killing and then of course there is the 'camped in system' dilemma. So basically for me, its not a matter of 'Not Wanting to' or 'Being a Carebear' or 'Coward', its a matter of playing the game in a way which gives the most enjoyment and rewards. And unless someone here is willing to pay my subscription I will have to continue to avoid going to 0.0 space because its just not as fun or practical in my situation. How about you?
Blitter	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:44:00 - [2] 0.0 (except entry points and some key systems) is safer then 0.1 -> 0.4
James Duar	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:46:00 - [3] The issue isn't with people not going to 0.0, the issue is with people staying in Empire and then complaining they're not making as much money as those who put everything on the line. I only recently moved to 0.0 as part of Huzzah alliance with my corp - the experience is awesome and the adrenaline of doing a corridor run from Empire with a hold full of supplies is like nothing else. Or hunting out intruders in sovereign space as you scan about looking for a sign of them, ready at any moment to run into combat where you'll probably die as you try to get in close and tackle the ship down so he can't escape the battleships pouring in the hurt. --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
Tachy	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:47:00 - [4] Read the googolplex other threads on the topic. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:48:00 - [5] I go to 0.0 for the advanced group play. After more then three years of play, grouping is just about the only thing left to attract me to Eve, besides nostalgia. And about people nagging for everyone to come to 0.0. I don't think i've actually seen someone asking someone else to come to 0.0 space. Personally I'd prefer if everyone just stay where they are or were they prefer being at. What it's mostly about is that endeless and useless discussion about how possible it is to enter/settle in 0.0 space/low sec space for someone coming from high sec empire space. That, together with overall balancing of the areas against eachother, really is all that's being discussed. Old blog
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:49:00 - [6] Because if you don't want to PvP, it's boring, parochial and restrictive. Come to think of it, so is empire, but at least I don't have to travel 60 jumps with instas to get there and back whenever I want to buy something.
Galadiin Venyaa	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:02:00 - [7] I used to be a empire dweller. I lost about 8 Ferox's in 1 week trying to get into a 0.4 system. I then tried negociating with the "owners" of said system, got permissions and standings set and all. But then a couple of minutes later they changed their mind and killed me. I was ****ed-off at this and decided to take a break. I knew I'd come back sometime, but I needed to rethink my game. Went to Wow for 6 months, and had a blast! Then came the time to return to Eve. I started with a clean slate. Brand new character. The biggest difference was the style I chose to play. Looking simply at the mechanics of Eve it's obvious that crime pays. And being a "bad guy" yields more rewards than being a "good guy". In real life murderers are caught, no matter the sec rating of the city they are in. They are then removed totally from society for periods of 5-30 years, or permanently in case of a death sentance. This is simply not practical in a game, so as a bad guy you have a lot of advantages over the good guys. With real accountability absent it simply doesn't make sense to play as a good guy. So I made the definite choice to be on the right side this time around! Right side being that bad/pirate/pk'er side ofcourse And I can tell you, it's waaaay different than empire! I joined a 0.0 corp. We live in peace with most of our neighbours. I get to kill people without worry. If my sec status gets a bit too low I go kill some NPC "bad guys" and quickly get my rating back up. Then I can roam Empire for some shopping, or simply use a alt to do my shopping and hauling for me. I'm having a blast!!! The advantages to being a bad guy in Eve simply outweigh the disadvantages 10:1. You can't go wrong. Crime does pay!
Karnus Vergoth	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:04:00 - [8] ive been playing this game for just under amonth however have move dinto 0.0 with my corp, it has all the advantages and none of the cons (save buying skills)
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:09:00 - [9] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 28/06/2006 09:09:20 0.0 is safe. 0.1 to 0.4 are not safe. Jita, 1.0 is the worst of all. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
General Andraax	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:12:00 - [10] when I manage to gather enough to replace me ship when it get shot down I will go 0.0, until then I will just stay our od low sec after the latest wave of gatecampings... Yes I have had a stroke of bad luck lately and lost a few ships, it did set me back some... But yes, 0.0 space is aluring to me, and I will go there when I can aford to lose my ship again :)
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:12:00 - [11] Originally by: BurnHard Because if you don't want to PvP, it's boring, parochial and restrictive. Come to think of it, so is empire, but at least I don't have to travel 60 jumps with instas to get there and back whenever I want to buy something. If your alliance doesn't have a well-seeded market, blame them, not the game. Oh and jump clones are your friend. --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II-
Kay Han	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:13:00 - [12] 0.0 means: - less peeps in Local - less smack in Local - No ore / loot thievery - Sometimes you get something to shoot at for free But it also means: - you can¦t mine alone in your shiny new Barge - sometimes you get killed - sometimes you lose ships to rats - you must have a good relation to the Alliance claiming this space, and must accept thier rules - you must have a look on local at everytime But overall 0.0 is safer then almost every empire system. You can do everything in 0.0 execpt NPC trading. mining, hunting, PvP. it¦s open for nearly all aspects of eve ___________________________________________ A wise man said once: 'Violence is the escape of the mentaly poor guys.'
Galk	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:34:00 - [13] Originally by: James Duar The issue isn't with people not going to 0.0, the issue is with people staying in Empire and then complaining they're not making as much money as those who put everything on the line. Actualy i think you will find it's the other way around. Remember all those threads last week.... Full of people that live in 0.0 moaning about how much people make in empire compared to themselfs... and how it should be nerfed to pennies. Your putting the ball on the other foot 'again' saying what people are saying for the sake of arguement when they're infact not... it's the other way around in most cases. Personaly i stay in empire because im a loser, happy ______ Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free. We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:56:00 - [14] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/06/2006 10:05:02 Low sec has alot of advantages to 0.0: - Solo piracy is risky (therefore fun) and victims are close by - Empire wars are fun and exciting - No bubbles to kill you during travel. You die in battles you pick yourself. - You can go back to safe space within a few minutes to do other things - No need to wait for other people to get ready - People seem to pay ransoms alot - Easy to replace ships and modules - Less blobbing (2-3 man groups are common, not 20 man groups) Maybe its just my personal playing style, but it really suits me. Im having a blast. And yeah, i agree that lowsec is maybe more dangerous than 0.0. Good! Danger is fun. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal \| Eve Tribune
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Galk Originally by: James Duar The issue isn't with people not going to 0.0, the issue is with people staying in Empire and then complaining they're not making as much money as those who put everything on the line. Actualy i think you will find it's the other way around. Remember all those threads last week.... Full of people that live in 0.0 moaning about how much people make in empire compared to themselfs... and how it should be nerfed to pennies. Your putting the ball on the other foot 'again' saying what people are saying for the sake of arguement when they're infact not... it's the other way around in most cases. Personaly i stay in empire because im a loser, happy That is why suicide killings are profitable in empire. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
James Duar	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Galk Originally by: James Duar The issue isn't with people not going to 0.0, the issue is with people staying in Empire and then complaining they're not making as much money as those who put everything on the line. Actualy i think you will find it's the other way around. Remember all those threads last week.... Full of people that live in 0.0 moaning about how much people make in empire compared to themselfs... and how it should be nerfed to pennies. Your putting the ball on the other foot 'again' saying what people are saying for the sake of arguement when they're infact not... it's the other way around in most cases. Personaly i stay in empire because im a loser, happy I don't know who you are or where you came from, but seriously, **** off. You've done nothing but make assumptions about how I play, or what I post, that are and will remain, wrong. Did I post in any of those threads? No, I thought they were silly. Have I ever pirated? No. What do I do in EVE? OH HELL, I'M A MINER! I'm sorry was that your retarded argument going out the window? --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
SevenDwarfs	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:07:00 - [17] 0.0 space is all fun.. full kills to anyone you see and can run a muck .. but you are also free for all and the rats hurt more and running around solo is just crazy.. but i think its funnier when people trap themselfs in a two sys area cuz they want to be pirates. that will be the only time youll ever see me tell someone to move to 0.0 otherwise i think people are smart enough to know where they belong. either in 0.0 0.1-0.4 or safe space, as long as your having fun ...
Scorpyn	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:18:00 - [18] Small scale fighting is more fun than blob wars.
Aetherine Chloride	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:26:00 - [19] I've yet to venture into the dreaded and beloved 0.0 space for a very simple reason. I have no idea what I'm getting myself into. What's a good location to head to? Who do I talk to? What sorts of people do I avoid? What sorts fo NPCs do I avoid? What do I bring with me in terms of replacement gear? Do I settle in 0.0 for good or make excursions back and forth between it and Empire Space? How can I negotiate with pirates that want to violate my warm, supple flesh? How DO I negotiate with said violators of the warm, supple flesh? And the one that totally keeps me from investigating: When will I be "ready?" --------- Jetfighters never cry Jetfighters never die.
Fellhand	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:35:00 - [20] I mostly stick to Empire for teh simple reason that I like to mine, I like to build things and I stink at pvp combat. I found travelling between Empire and 0.0 to be virtual suicide in anything bigger than a frig (and that's WITH instas) and since I wasn't a combat jock, there wasn't much for me to do in 0.0. Now, I mostly stick to Empire and I'm perfectly happy with it. _______________________________________________ There is no such thing as too much cynicism Flame me if you wish, I laugh with scorn at threats... Beware of geeks bearing gifs
Flyyn	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:39:00 - [21] Edited by: Flyyn on 28/06/2006 10:41:00 Originally by: James Duar The issue isn't with people not going to 0.0, the issue is with people staying in Empire and then complaining they're not making as much money as those who put everything on the line. I only recently moved to 0.0 as part of Huzzah alliance with my corp - the experience is awesome and the adrenaline of doing a corridor run from Empire with a hold full of supplies is like nothing else. Or hunting out intruders in sovereign space as you scan about looking for a sign of them, ready at any moment to run into combat where you'll probably die as you try to get in close and tackle the ship down so he can't escape the battleships pouring in the hurt. Last week it was people in 0.0 crying about money makers in Empire. The flavor for this week is Empire complaining about money in 0.0. I think both camps are wrong, there are ten times more PvE players in this world then PvP players. Eve-online offers some of the best PvE combat in any game, while the PvP combat sucks and is to short. Another point to make, who says PvE players are playing a solo game? There has been more then a dozen threads about "I ooopsed and smart bombed my gang mate and concord killed me." These "debates" will always continue...and never solve a single thing. Edit: Oh and I forgot to mention the "I just moved out to 0.0 and am having a blast!" Line is really getting old.... This is as bad as it can get, but don't bet on it.
Branco	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:39:00 - [22] Because it does not suits my playstyle. I go to 0.0 often to rat (I prefer it to missions, since I can login, rat for 5 minutes and logout) and everyone down there seems to be about blobs. 1) Lets blob and destroy that starbase 2) Lets blob and camp that entry point 3) There is an enemy blob out to get us, lets dock while we wait for our blob to form. Honestly... lots more fun in 0.1-1.0
Xtown	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:42:00 - [23] There are a few reasons why I stick to 0.1 and above but the main one is that I need the flexibility it affords. I have real life things that take priority over Eve and if I have to step away from the PC to attend to them then I need to know that I can dock at a station in system without whenever I feel like it. Lots of things about 0.0 sound good but it demands a level of commitment that I'm just not able to offer.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:42:00 - [24] Oh, small scale PvP isn't really that short. But it can feel like short. I have done some combat frapsing and I have been impressed by how short 15 minutes can feel. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
James Duar	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Flyyn Edit: Oh and I forgot to mention the "I just moved out to 0.0 and am having a blast!" Line is really getting old.... I'm sorry for telling it like it is for me, let me tell you what you want to hear: "I just moved to 0.0 and it sucks. The rats are too hard to kill and you're in constant fear for your life!" Happy? Of course not because that's another retarded whine. It's not a line if it's the god damn truth, unless you're calling me a liar. --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
Thelmarr	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:49:00 - [26] Why go lowsec to be ganked? Honestly... Once I get tired of highsec I'll go lower (and by that time I have more than enough cash to replace my losses). "Go alliance" is one response. Weelll... Maybe I don't want to become another minerslave/gateganker for god knows how long (maybe at some point). Or simply have not seen alliance I would really want to be part of (and which incidentally would permit me in thanks to SP limits) Yes, I have read those "inspiring" stories of someone who has slipped oh-so-easily through 1100 gatecamps in his newbship to 0.0, got so happy in there that stayed for 2 months and came back with small moon of high end minerals. And since I am realist I know that chances of repeating that feat are far too small for me to start risking my small resources.
Thecle Vifargent	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:04:00 - [27] I dont go 0.0 because i'm in a small corp who dont "own" any of these systems. Considering this, and considering alliance/corporation who "own" these systems think everybody is a potential ennemy/target to destroy, i see no reason to go there disturb them for the pleasure of. If one day my corp join a 0.0 alliance or if I, myself, join one, i will have no problem to go there, but meanwhile, i consider going to 0.0 is like entering someone else's house. ______________________________________________________
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:04:00 - [28] /me heard Kali is going to make empire into 0.0 everywhere. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Stamm	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:11:00 - [29] Because researching and manufacturing are best done in Empire where it's safe. The ISK cost does not make it worthwhile to move to 0.0 for T2 production. Missions are a little less profitable in Empire, but safe. Raise the cost of manufacturing and researching in empire, reduce the slots, and see people having to move to 0.0. See people wanting to use outposts. If I was the Caldari Navy, my best agents would be on my borders where things were happening, rather than in my core systems which you would expect would be safe. Scale agents out from 1.0 to 0.1 for Empire factions. The lower security you go, the higher quality and level. If people still want to live in Empire that's fine, but low risk should mean low reward. Frankly 0.0 life isn't _that_ profitable compared to Empire life. And the highest profit activities are done docked in Empire.
Galk	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:13:00 - [30] Edited by: Galk on 28/06/2006 11:16:23 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire /me heard Kali is going to make empire into 0.0 everywhere. I seriously doubt that. It would be a terrible mistake on ccp's part, it would be a bigger mistake than anything soe have ever done. Anyway, i don't belive it.. since the *** forum patrol continue to call for it... it must mean your talking *&&^%$ ______ Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free. We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:16:00 - [31] Originally by: Galk Originally by: Jenny Spitfire /me heard Kali is going to make empire into 0.0 everywhere. I seriously doubt that. It would be a terrible mistake on ccp's part, it would be a bigger mistake than anything soe have ever done. Jenny means Factional Warfare, which will be consensual pvp as i understand it. So not really the same as 0.0 i believe, but it sounds kind of cool if they pull it off in a fun way. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal \| Eve Tribune
Scorpyn	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:17:00 - [32] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire /me heard Kali is going to make empire into 0.0 everywhere. They will probably change it (for factional warfare), but I highly doubt that they will turn it all into 0.0. Unless they simply replace the current system with a system where sec status doesn't matter (for example, sovereignity could matter instead).
Galk	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:19:00 - [33] Consensual..... That pretty much voids the statement then Since most people allready don't consent... hence the number of topics in this ilk..... Whats going to change ______ Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free. We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
Flyyn	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:22:00 - [34] Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Flyyn Edit: Oh and I forgot to mention the "I just moved out to 0.0 and am having a blast!" Line is really getting old.... I'm sorry for telling it like it is for me, let me tell you what you want to hear: "I just moved to 0.0 and it sucks. The rats are too hard to kill and you're in constant fear for your life!" Happy? Of course not because that's another retarded whine. It's not a line if it's the god damn truth, unless you're calling me a liar. You know that dude, with the funny haircut? You know your alliance President? Hans Roaming? You do know he is the ONLY one allowed from your alliance to use these forums? Just thought I should warn you before that multi million isk fine hits you or your corp.... And another thing, you got a sharp tounge there fella...calm down, go out for a smoke, take another swig from the bottle. This is as bad as it can get, but don't bet on it.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Galk Consensual..... That pretty much voids the statement then Since most people allready don't consent... hence the number of topics in this ilk..... Whats going to change Well, hopefully it will mean less ganking (same number of people on both sides) and will give a purpose to the fights (goals to complete). But nobody seems to know for sure what it really will be about... --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal \| Eve Tribune
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:23:00 - [36] But you guys do know that PvP is never consentual, dont you? ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:25:00 - [37] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire But you guys do know that PvP is never consentual, dont you? Yeah, and thats why its fun. Duels are dull, mkey? --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal \| Eve Tribune
Galk	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:26:00 - [38] Originally by: Jim McGregor Well, hopefully it will mean less ganking (same number of people on both sides) and will give a purpose to the fights (goals to complete). But nobody seems to know for sure what it really will be about... Agreed in part.... but unless the npc factions toss the people fighting on their side ships and mods to fight with (now there's an idea) Your allways going to get ganking....it's the nature of eve... allways will be. You know.. if that were the case... i were tossed ships and mods to have fun with on behalf of the faction... I might take part.... ______ Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free. We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
Scorpyn	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:26:00 - [39] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire But you guys do know that PvP is never consentual, dont you? PVP is always consentual. Those who don't want pvp can simply stay offline.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:27:00 - [40] Originally by: Scorpyn Originally by: Jenny Spitfire But you guys do know that PvP is never consentual, dont you? PVP is always consentual. Those who don't want pvp can simply stay offline. You did use the word offline. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:28:00 - [41] Originally by: Galk Agreed in part.... but unless the npc factions toss the people fighting on their side ships and mods to fight with (now there's an idea) Your allways going to get ganking....it's the nature of eve... allways will be. You know.. if that were the case... i were tossed ships and mods to have fun with on behalf of the faction... I might take part.... You should take part anyway. I would rather pick my own modules. Not because they are elite in any way, but because it would allow for your own tactics. Also, player pvp skill will mean more than a few extra % advantage from modules me thinks. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal \| Eve Tribune
Flyyn	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:28:00 - [42] I think those that want to be safe in empire, and those that want to do nothing but kill, will be happy with Kali. Partly cause its factions against factions. I think...Might be wrong here...You will be given the option, what side to join if any, if your standings are high enough. And I dont think its going to be mandatory either. So if you dont want to fight in this war...so be it. But if you do...what side are you going to be on? This is as bad as it can get, but don't bet on it.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:28:00 - [43] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 28/06/2006 11:28:38 Originally by: Galk Originally by: Jim McGregor Well, hopefully it will mean less ganking (same number of people on both sides) and will give a purpose to the fights (goals to complete). But nobody seems to know for sure what it really will be about... Agreed in part.... but unless the npc factions toss the people fighting on their side ships and mods to fight with (now there's an idea) Your allways going to get ganking....it's the nature of eve... allways will be. You know.. if that were the case... i were tossed ships and mods to have fun with on behalf of the faction... I might take part.... I doubt NPCs will give you free ships to die and kill in. You provide your own pod, ships, ammos and ISKs. You kill enough faction points, you can claim Caldari Navy Raven Mark II. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Flyyn I think...Might be wrong here...You will be given the option, what side to join if any, if your standings are high enough. And I dont think its going to be mandatory either. So if you dont want to fight in this war...so be it. But if you do...what side are you going to be on? Careful. CCP is running for faction segregation. Fight for Gallente? Fly past Jita and you will still get ganked by anyone. /me sees "0.0" everywhere. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
LING PO	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:32:00 - [45] To be honest i don't know yet because i never went to 0.0 but everyone is saying is far more profitable than empire will see :)
Scorpyn	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:32:00 - [46] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Scorpyn Originally by: Jenny Spitfire But you guys do know that PvP is never consentual, dont you? PVP is always consentual. Those who don't want pvp can simply stay offline. You did use the word offline. That's only because staying docked isn't enough (with other ppl buying and selling on the market etc). The way I see it is this : You play a game, and by playing it you agree to the rules of the game. One of those rules is that players might attack you even though you may not like it - thus, non-consentual combat doesn't exist.

Chribba	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:33:00 - [47] Originally by: Scorpyn Originally by: Jenny Spitfire But you guys do know that PvP is never consentual, dont you? PVP is always consentual. Those who don't want pvp can simply stay offline. Even though the big percentage of EVE is PVP, the less percentage that does not PVP is very much needed in order for EVE to be what it is. So simply saying that anyone who doesn't want to PVP should stay offline is a bit harsh imo. And if ever it turns out that everything becomes 0.0, I at least would not be that interested in playing since PVP is the least of my interests. EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Andrue	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:33:00 - [48] I don't go to 0.0 because most of the time all I want to do is potter around and relax. I don't want the hassle of the logistics down in 0.0 I have little interest in game politics except as a bystander. I don't get excited seeing another player's ship go pop. Several decades of working for a living mean that I can obtain pleasure simply by working and seeing the fruits of my labour. I have lived and worked in 0.0 so I know that the scare stories are mostly untrue. Unfortunately I also know the truth about the logistics of operating in 0.0 and that's more effort than I currently want to put into a game. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
robacz	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:35:00 - [49] Originally by: Infinity Ziona So why dont you go live in 0.0 and stop being a coward or a loser?, heres your chance to tell it straight to the 0.0 people who constantly pester you about it. Becouse I am trader and industrialist. I have no single reason to go there. As Teladi says: 0.0 is bad for profitssssss! Btw, I am playing solo, maily becouse of reasons you said. I am talking to co-workers/family all day and when I have my one or two hours of gaming, I prefer to do what I want without asking anyone else. However, its more fun to play with/against real players then against computer like in X games for example. ___________ Buying/selling Implants, Cargo Expanders
Andrue	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:36:00 - [50] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: BurnHard Because if you don't want to PvP, it's boring, parochial and restrictive. Come to think of it, so is empire, but at least I don't have to travel 60 jumps with instas to get there and back whenever I want to buy something. If your alliance doesn't have a well-seeded market, blame them, not the game. Oh and jump clones are your friend. Firstly get off the blame game friend! There's enough of that in the world already. It doesn't matter who you blame because it doesn't change anything. If there is no market then there is no market. See next paragraph. You can try (or be tasked with) keeping a good market running but that's a lot of work in 0.0 -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:44:00 - [51] Originally by: Stamm If I was the Caldari Navy, my best agents would be on my borders where things were happening, rather than in my core systems which you would expect would be safe. Scale agents out from 1.0 to 0.1 for Empire factions. The lower security you go, the higher quality and level. Agreed. Tbh if I was running the game I would give serious thought to spreading the agents out and having their quality and level dependant on system security. CCP had a good idea adding hi-end mins to mid- and low- sec roids but they should go further. IMO .5 and higher should be the current level of safety but lower profitability. Oh and I'm an Empire dweller that mostly operates in .5 and higher. I am basically talking about nerfing my own income. I don't currently run a lvl 4 agent but if I wanted to I should have to go to low-sec to do it. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Thelmarr	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Stamm If people still want to live in Empire that's fine, but low risk should mean low reward. Lowering Empire rewards would be bad move. People who are in empire need to make enough cash to afford to start going to 0.0 If going to lowsec means loss of 20+hours of work in empire (due to lost gear) people will simply start quitting or go to lowsec even less.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:45:00 - [53] The market in 0.0 where I live is pretty good, but it's still not the one stop shop Jita is... Only gripe I have about 0.0 is Freighter runs and having to wait for your stuff to be shipped to 0.0... Logistics is a *****... If I log on and find I have to go to Empire for a ship or module, I'll most likely log off and do something else. I just don't have the time to make the Empire runs anymore... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Scorpyn	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:45:00 - [54] Originally by: Chribba Originally by: Scorpyn Originally by: Jenny Spitfire But you guys do know that PvP is never consentual, dont you? PVP is always consentual. Those who don't want pvp can simply stay offline. Even though the big percentage of EVE is PVP, the less percentage that does not PVP is very much needed in order for EVE to be what it is. So simply saying that anyone who doesn't want to PVP should stay offline is a bit harsh imo. And if ever it turns out that everything becomes 0.0, I at least would not be that interested in playing since PVP is the least of my interests. I highly doubt that it will all turn into 0.0 - at least not without anything to replace the current system (for example, faction police could take over the duties of concord). What I meant wasn't that ppl that aren't interested in fighting all the time should stay offline, but rather that if you logon you accept the risk of being attacked, since it's perfectly legal to attack ships even in high sec space as long as the ship of the attacker gets destroyed.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:47:00 - [55] Originally by: Thelmarr Originally by: Stamm If people still want to live in Empire that's fine, but low risk should mean low reward. Lowering Empire rewards would be bad move. People who are in empire need to make enough cash to afford to start going to 0.0 If going to lowsec means loss of 20+hours of work in empire (due to lost gear) people will simply start quitting or go to lowsec even less. So true... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Scorpyn	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:48:00 - [56] Originally by: Thelmarr Originally by: Stamm If people still want to live in Empire that's fine, but low risk should mean low reward. Lowering Empire rewards would be bad move. People who are in empire need to make enough cash to afford to start going to 0.0 If going to lowsec means loss of 20+hours of work in empire (due to lost gear) people will simply start quitting or go to lowsec even less. Going to 0.0 is not expensive though...
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:49:00 - [57] Regarding the market in 0.0 space - when I was an alliance member there was an alliance market and you were not supposed to put up general escrows or market items for non alliance members. Maybe thats why the markets in 0.0 suck so much.
Thelmarr	Posted - 2006.06.28 12:10:00 - [58] Originally by: Scorpyn Originally by: Thelmarr Originally by: Stamm If people still want to live in Empire that's fine, but low risk should mean low reward. Lowering Empire rewards would be bad move. People who are in empire need to make enough cash to afford to start going to 0.0 If going to lowsec means loss of 20+hours of work in empire (due to lost gear) people will simply start quitting or go to lowsec even less. Going to 0.0 is not expensive though... Until one of the gatecamps catches you. If you feel lucky...
Prestis	Posted - 2006.06.28 12:14:00 - [59] Lack of targets and casual PvP in 0.0. Most systems are empty or near empty, making your presence immediately obvious. Those hub-systems with a decent population will have your name in alliance chat and a gang forming before you finish zoning in. It would take some serious changes to the way Local chat works for me to bother with 0.0 again.
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.06.28 12:23:00 - [60] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: BurnHard Because if you don't want to PvP, it's boring, parochial and restrictive. Come to think of it, so is empire, but at least I don't have to travel 60 jumps with instas to get there and back whenever I want to buy something. If your alliance doesn't have a well-seeded market, blame them, not the game. Oh and jump clones are your friend. Hah. No the market isn't seeded too well. Some things you can get lots of, some things (usually the things I want) you can't get any of, or someone has gouged the price up to some ridiculous degree (I remember now, Modulated Deep Core Strip Miner II at 50m!). This is mainly due to the weekly freighter/carrier runs corps do these days. Not much point in paying over the odds on the local market when you and your mates can hop up to empire. Luckily, I'll have my freighter-with-jump-drive in a few weeks time, so I'll be able to do the same ;).
Angry Sheep	Posted - 2006.06.28 12:38:00 - [61] Why do I not go to 0.0 1. Time - I like building and chatting! 2. Half playing eve - I have chores to do which allow me to just switch off while I am flying through empire cant do that in 0.0 3. Markets - I would love to supply and sell in low sec but 1 & 2 above cut that down and I really cant walk away from my PC with a freighter on auto pilot through 0.0.... so I don't! PS - When I was unemployed I lived a year in low sec and it was great It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
D2O LightWater	Posted - 2006.06.28 12:44:00 - [62] I dont goto 0.0 because im not part of any allience and every time I have tried to get into 0.0 I have been ganked by 20+ ships hovering around the 1st 0.0 gate.
James Duar	Posted - 2006.06.28 12:58:00 - [63] Originally by: Flyyn Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Flyyn Edit: Oh and I forgot to mention the "I just moved out to 0.0 and am having a blast!" Line is really getting old.... I'm sorry for telling it like it is for me, let me tell you what you want to hear: "I just moved to 0.0 and it sucks. The rats are too hard to kill and you're in constant fear for your life!" Happy? Of course not because that's another retarded whine. It's not a line if it's the god damn truth, unless you're calling me a liar. You know that dude, with the funny haircut? You know your alliance President? Hans Roaming? You do know he is the ONLY one allowed from your alliance to use these forums? Just thought I should warn you before that multi million isk fine hits you or your corp.... And another thing, you got a sharp tounge there fella...calm down, go out for a smoke, take another swig from the bottle. As I understand it our policy is generally "don't be an ass" and don't scam. However between 3 different threads in which I will argue one side of the debate and be accused of being a worthless greifer, pirate or gate camper, my tolerance for stupid statements is wearing a little thin. I'm more then happy to deal with reasonable assertions and arguments. --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
AlexCA	Posted - 2006.06.28 13:07:00 - [64] Because my POS is located in 0.2 And dont you hate it when people make their signature look like part of their post?
Drizit	Posted - 2006.06.28 13:09:00 - [65] Originally by: Scorpyn The way I see it is this : You play a game, and by playing it you agree to the rules of the game. One of those rules is that players might attack you even though you may not like it - thus, non-consentual combat doesn't exist. All combat is consentual (to a degree). By staying in highsec, you are limiting your chances of PVP combat and being in a noob corp limits it even further. You are thereby giving a message that you don't want to get involved in the combat side of the game. PVP exists in many forms, even market trading so you will always have it in some form no matter what you do. One of the main problems I see with most online PVP games is that they are often dominated by either naturally good PVP players or those who have played for a long time and have gained a sizable knowledge of tactics within the limitations of the weapons/ships etc. Having a foothold in the game so long also gives a significant advantage. If you have played since day 1, you moved into 0.0 when there was absolutely nobody there to stop you, no gate camps, no player pirates and no alliances claiming vast regions. This often leads to a "them and us" situation with new players. 3 years on and the game becomes vastly more difficult with all the above raging against new players, preventing their exodus into 0.0 and very little in terms of incentive to make that move. Alliances have become so large that they are deeply rooted in the systems with no hope for new players to rout them out and take their place. They have claimed territories so vast that there is little hope for new players to find a quiet spot where they can remain undetected until they can establish a foothold with which to fight attackers. If a new corp wants a POS in 0.0, they have to become an alliance slave or pay huge amounts to an alliance to retain thier POS which makes it far too unprofitable. Now it means the new players have to suffer a very low income since most of it is now being paid as rent money to alliances. The risk is still just as great but the rewards are often less than those in Empire space. With many more player pirates than 3 years ago, any new corp has to have significant combat abilities to defend their territory. As soon as a few pirates get to know it's a bunch of new players, their POS is pretty certain to be attacked with significant force. The alliance just say it's not their place to defend everyone and the corp will have to form their own defences. In short, the new player is just paying rent for the system and nothing more. Why don't people migrate? The simple fact is economics. Now a POS in 0.0 requires cost to buy it, fuel to maintain it and rent for the property to put it in. It's just too costly and with far greater risk than the alliance who first got a foothold in the region but now enjoy huge rewards for virtually no risk. They already have the defences that are required to keep a POS safe and gained them when there was nobody there to interfere. --
Scorpyn	Posted - 2006.06.28 13:23:00 - [66] Originally by: Drizit All combat is consentual (to a degree). By staying in highsec, you are limiting your chances of PVP combat and being in a noob corp limits it even further. You are thereby giving a message that you don't want to get involved in the combat side of the game. PVP exists in many forms, even market trading so you will always have it in some form no matter what you do. One of the main problems I see with most online PVP games is that they are often dominated by either naturally good PVP players or those who have played for a long time and have gained a sizable knowledge of tactics within the limitations of the weapons/ships etc. Having a foothold in the game so long also gives a significant advantage. If you have played since day 1, you moved into 0.0 when there was absolutely nobody there to stop you, no gate camps, no player pirates and no alliances claiming vast regions. This often leads to a "them and us" situation with new players. 3 years on and the game becomes vastly more difficult with all the above raging against new players, preventing their exodus into 0.0 and very little in terms of incentive to make that move. Alliances have become so large that they are deeply rooted in the systems with no hope for new players to rout them out and take their place. They have claimed territories so vast that there is little hope for new players to find a quiet spot where they can remain undetected until they can establish a foothold with which to fight attackers. If a new corp wants a POS in 0.0, they have to become an alliance slave or pay huge amounts to an alliance to retain thier POS which makes it far too unprofitable. Now it means the new players have to suffer a very low income since most of it is now being paid as rent money to alliances. The risk is still just as great but the rewards are often less than those in Empire space. With many more player pirates than 3 years ago, any new corp has to have significant combat abilities to defend their territory. As soon as a few pirates get to know it's a bunch of new players, their POS is pretty certain to be attacked with significant force. The alliance just say it's not their place to defend everyone and the corp will have to form their own defences. In short, the new player is just paying rent for the system and nothing more. Why don't people migrate? The simple fact is economics. Now a POS in 0.0 requires cost to buy it, fuel to maintain it and rent for the property to put it in. It's just too costly and with far greater risk than the alliance who first got a foothold in the region but now enjoy huge rewards for virtually no risk. They already have the defences that are required to keep a POS safe and gained them when there was nobody there to interfere. I think the major problem is that it's difficult to create a working empire alliance that is capable of making a proper attack against the current 0.0 alliances. In order to survive in a hostile territory, some form of 0.0 experience is almost necessary - and that is difficult to get without being in 0.0. The best options for most empire corps that want to move to 0.0 but don't have the experience are probably to either simply join an alliance or to pay some alliance in order to stay in their space for a while. There is also the option of going there basically unprepaired and ready to lose it all. The ppl that do that are probably not going to stay and live in 0.0 immediately, but with that mentality it's likely that they will either be able to join a random 0.0 alliance a lot easier or simply learn to live behind enemy lines.
Dinique	Posted - 2006.06.28 13:24:00 - [67] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire /me heard Kali is going to make empire into 0.0 everywhere. /me heard that with kali if you are Caldari, CONCORD will spawn in empire to assist you when you gank gallentes _____ There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones
Galk	Posted - 2006.06.28 13:33:00 - [68] Edited by: Galk on 28/06/2006 13:33:33 Originally by: James DuarAs I understand it our policy is generally "don't be an ass" and don't scam. However between 3 different threads in which I will argue one side of the debate and be accused of being a worthless greifer, pirate or gate camper, my tolerance for stupid statements is wearing a little thin. I'm more then happy to deal with reasonable assertions and arguments. So far today, you have called me an idiot, told me to F* *... and called my point of view retarded. I have yet to see anybody tell you what you are... or question what you do in the game.... Your the one that keeps saying 'hey im a miner' not a greifer.. stop calling me that ect ect... Nobody is, never once have i questioned what you do in the game... i couldn't give a toss. What i will argue against is when you come in making blanket statements about others playstyles, and making your own statements about what others are saying when there infact not. ______ Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free. We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2006.06.28 14:44:00 - [69] Once you get used to it, soloing's not that intensive. Depents on you how long it takes to adapt. And yeah, you'll earn most isk in high security systems where people think they're safe. Off to solo camping Jita..
Major Death	Posted - 2006.06.28 15:54:00 - [70] Edited by: Major Death on 28/06/2006 15:54:50 Let me see, good reasons not to go to 0.0, Gate Camps, where you are part of the ten or more people killed and podded to generate the 'lots of kills in this system' warning. Gankers with several times your skill points, much better equipment and no mercy. Wasted skill points in Trade and Social. Massive Alliances that hunt you down because you dared enter the vast tracts of empty space they don't use. No where to dock when you have to stop because RL kicks in.
Ranger 1	Posted - 2006.06.28 18:07:00 - [71] Originally by: Major Death Edited by: Major Death on 28/06/2006 15:54:50 Let me see, good reasons not to go to 0.0, Gate Camps, where you are part of the ten or more people killed and podded to generate the 'lots of kills in this system' warning. Gankers with several times your skill points, much better equipment and no mercy. Wasted skill points in Trade and Social. Massive Alliances that hunt you down because you dared enter the vast tracts of empty space they don't use. No where to dock when you have to stop because RL kicks in. Not to pick on you, but some observations. 1: Most gate camps are in .4 systems, not 0.0 systems. And if you are approaching a 0.0 entry point, ask in local who to talk to about admittance. You will often be surprised. 2: Much like the gankers in high security? 3: Trade and social skill points are hardly wasted, they tend to facilitate most of the serious isk making professions in the game. 4: See point number one. Ask first, don't trespass. 5: Take 30 seconds, make a safe spot, go there and log off when real life rears it's ugly head. It's quite safe you know, as long as you haven't been agressed. Just some random facts...
Martin Mckenna	Posted - 2006.06.28 18:08:00 - [72] Originally by: Blitter 0.0 (except entry points and some key systems) is safer then 0.1 -> 0.4 100% correct...trust me
Lorth	Posted - 2006.06.28 18:12:00 - [73] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Once you get used to it, soloing's not that intensive. Depents on you how long it takes to adapt. And yeah, you'll earn most isk in high security systems where people think they're safe. Off to solo camping Jita.. Basterd, move some place else. I'd fight but the lag will kill me before I undock I'm sure
Ediot	Posted - 2006.06.28 18:15:00 - [74] I go to 0.0 space because it amuses me. I have a month or two to kill while my skills train up and im not really interested in running the same level 2 missions hundreds of times. So I go to 0.0 space in a cheap disposable frigate and steal loot cans. Sure I get podded a lot by players that completely outclass me but the money is decent and its fun to play tag with them. Maybe someday Ill join an alliance.
Nyabinghi	Posted - 2006.06.28 18:34:00 - [75] Going to 0.0 means getting in good with the local big cheese alliance which is not so bad accept then you also become the enemy of your alliance's enemy so you never really know any peace. Not to mention when your allies "accidentally" pod you because someone didn't know you were on the team or got a little too drunk and bored one night. I make cool banners for ISK.
Arron S	Posted - 2006.06.28 18:39:00 - [76] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 28/06/2006 09:09:20 0.0 is safe. 0.1 to 0.4 are not safe. Jita, 1.0 is the worst of all. 0.0 is very safe aslong as you don't hang around in the major corridors or key entry points. Any small corp not in an allaince can surive in the unclaimed/neutral areas or 0.0. Just as long as the keep to them selves
Jojin	Posted - 2006.06.28 18:42:00 - [77] I guess the biggest reason is because of local chat. It lets every one know you are in the system without scans or skills. This combined with the lack of random people means there will be many bored people looking for action. Thus you, if you are not a friend of the members, become a target to hunt down. I understand why it should be there. The low populous of a system without a way to know someone has come would decrease encounters and make the game more boring. I just don't think it lends itself to nimble exploration.
Kira Natel	Posted - 2006.06.28 20:49:00 - [78] Originally by: Martin Mckenna Originally by: Blitter 0.0 (except entry points and some key systems) is safer then 0.1 -> 0.4 100% correct...trust me Is that intended or correct? Do the devs want players to set up alliances to farm minerals and NPC's while an alliance with good defense and rarely attacked and no outward attacks but has agreements with neighboring alliances? This seems more empirish than empire to me. Not much pvp is a possibility
Pete Stalker	Posted - 2006.06.28 22:39:00 - [79] Edited by: Pete Stalker on 28/06/2006 22:41:50 Edited by: Pete Stalker on 28/06/2006 22:39:17 Quote: So why dont you go live in 0.0 1. No blue standings 2. No politics 3. Do whatever you want 4. No 40+ jumps to go 5. No mining (hehe) 6. People dont always run if you enter a system 7. You can dock'n'log if you need to go 8. 1v1s 9. No bubbles/blobs and finally 10. Empire wars/lowsec is more fun. Oh and I have been there. ______________________ o rly?

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