Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?

Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?

He did. He feels that they're overpowered because of the drones, mostly in light of the recent drone buffs.

That's not to say I - or anyone - agree with him, but it should answer your question.

First people say they are underpowered, now they say they are overpowered, and then tomorrow they are suddenly underpowered again...

I will say that the Gila and Worm do have great DPS and tanking ability, The Gila being able to get damn near close to 1000dps, and the Worm 350. But is hard to get the fit due to fitting.

However, I would also say that these ships all have a weakness. The Gila is allergic to neuts, and the Worm is medicor/hard to fit properly, but also is allergic to neuts.

They are not OP, but you won't be taking down a faction frig with a Tech 2 AF, mainly because Pirate Faction ships are meant to be better than a AF, at least in a role that the faction frig is suppose to place in.

Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?

That's because...

It's the ciiiiiiiiiiiircle of teaaaaaaaars... and it mooooves us alllllllll~

Your best bet is to ECM one of their two drones and halve their DPS. Can't do anything about the Worm's tank, though.

Thats a decent idea specifically for fighting worms but generally I don't like carrying ecm on unbonused ships. But for fighting worms putting two ecm (one for each drone) on a hook bill might be kinda funny.

Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?

I will say that the Gila and Worm do have great DPS and tanking ability, The Gila being able to get damn near close to 1000dps, and the Worm 350. But is hard to get the fit due to fitting.

However, I would also say that these ships all have a weakness. The Gila is allergic to neuts, and the Worm is medicor/hard to fit properly, but also is allergic to neuts.

They are not OP, but you won't be taking down a faction frig with a Tech 2 AF, mainly because Pirate Faction ships are meant to be better than a AF, at least in a role that the faction frig is suppose to place in.

I've seen a good amount of dead Gila's and Worms. More than one would expect if they were overpowered.

Perhaps the issue is not the drones on the Gila and Worm but how you handle encounters with the ship itself. Given the unpredictability of what you may encounter, you have my sympathies.

I've seen a good amount of dead Gila's and Worms. More than one would expect if they were overpowered.

Perhaps the issue is not the drones on the Gila and Worm but how you handle encounters with the ship itself. Given the unpredictability of what you may encounter, you have my sympathies.

I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either.

~600 DPS isn't even that good though? Ishtars and VNIs can push 800 with just drones, and they're both considerably cheaper.

I'd like to know why he feels the drones are overpowered, at all. There are only two of the damn things anyway.

I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either.

Crow? Malediction? Kestrel? Ishkur? Tristan? Imicus? ASB Shield tankers with non-cap weapons?

However, I would also say that these ships all have a weakness. The Gila is allergic to neuts, and the Worm is medicor/hard to fit properly, but also is allergic to neuts.

I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either.

[Lots of good stuff I thought was obvious to others when I made this post]

For example even TOO STRONG DD - is actually WEAK when you compare it to worm. DPS aint much higher (and only if you go blasters) - damage projection is much worse - especially range. No selectible damage type and on top of that DD does not even have 50% of worms tank to begin with.

And its not that DD is weak - its blantly broken ship , op like hell. Yet somehow it possess some weak spots that you may try to exploit to beat it.
Worm on the other hand ... those weak spots are so far unknown... despite people trying hard to find a hole in its defence or offence ... somehow ship persists, butchers entire gangs of other frigs. Stomps destroyers, assault frigs alike aswell. Not to mention it can take on huge range of cruisers.

You get capped out and they warp off, you're not going to kill them.

You get capped out and they warp off, you're not going to kill them.

Awwwwwwwww...how cute.

A Goon thinks he knows about solo PVP!

I don't see how the worm is particularly allergic to neuts. Weapons and tank take no cap. Sure your scram does but thats true of all ships. Succubus and to a much lesser extent the daredevil needs to be careful but I am not sure why you say that of the worm

How, pray tell, is a ship with capless weapons and a capless tank 'allergic to neuts'?

The worm can be counted by a Crow, or a Slicer. Just as long as pilot can kite properly.

[quote=Valkin Mordirc]

Warriors with good skills are pretty fast, unless you Crow is boosted it would have a hard time out running them.

Yeah I have to agree.

Crazy EHP
Crazy Damage Projection (Drones)
Crazy DPS
Crazy Drone EHP

They have their price but the other pirate boats seems useless compared to the Gila, Worm , Orthus and Garmur.

There is something really really really wrong with these ships.

Edit : I dont think there is a T1/Faction frig counter to the Worm or Garmur tbh.

.


Depending of the Worms fit I suppose would be a better way to put it. But again, the Worm isn't the be all end all. The 350 dps need Augmented Drones, otherwise you get around 300, the 10k buffer tank is tech 2 but it other assault frigates can also run up to that.

The Worm can do a huge amount of DPS with a good tank, but it is slow, a fast micro fitted ship can out run it's drones. The Worm from what I've seen is limited to a AB.

The worm can be counted by a Crow, or a Slicer. Just as long as pilot can kite properly.

I personally would say if the ships need a nerf, it would be a slight one, maybe keeping the DPS the same, but changing the drone HP bonus? Or limiting the fitting so that only a scram could be fitted rather than the point?




Since when is a shield tanked ship, capless? Weapons and drones are capless yeah cool, but as soon as your loss your resists, you're 60k tanks suddenly become 18k.

Since when is a shield tanked ship, capless? Weapons and drones are capless yeah cool, but as soon as your loss your resists, you're 60k tanks suddenly become 18k.

he worm can be counted by a Crow, or a Slicer. Just as long as pilot can kite properly.

First people say they are underpowered, now they say they are overpowered, and then tomorrow they are suddenly underpowered again...

I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either.

This is a valid point but misplaced in this context. Sentinel is OP as a solo boat (which is why you don't fight it) but the ship's true role is in fleets where their power is properly applicable. It has a valid role even though annoying solo. It should not be nerfed.

Worm, on the other hand, is OP as solo without any broader meta justification. It doesn't bring anything to a fleet that can't be done better more cheaply. It's real strength is limited to solo play. It is OP. My favourite solution would be to lower drone EHP.

No!

What is everyone deal with having a line of pirate ships actually being pirate ships, you know scary and powerful at the same time, like all the OP-matar where from 2009-2012.

Now people are complaing about ship that nobody would have ever used in pvp, except goofswarm but they can use any boat and multiply by 12 billion and all of a sudden its all good and stuff.

Anyhow, I like my Gurista boat just fine the way they are right now, as king of the heavens not a joke that everyone else were making fun of in last daze Tengu / Drake / Hurricane Online, buy plex now at CCP an win EVE.

Last weeks most complains:

whaaaahaaa Interceptors haz intercepted maah, mommy halp maah whaaaahaaa...

Now take Worm / Gila and make them disappear!

You just learned how to get on the path of the better pilots in EVE, congratulations!

You are welcome!

No!

What is everyone deal with having a line of pirate ships actually being pirate ships, you know scary and powerful at the same time, like all the OP-matar where from 2009-2012.

Now people are complaing about ship that nobody would have ever used in pvp, except goofswarm but they can use any boat and multiply by 12 billion and all of a sudden its all good and stuff.

Anyhow, I like my Gurista boat just fine the way they are right now, as king of the heavens not a joke that everyone else were making fun of in last daze Tengu / Drake / Hurricane Online, buy plex now at CCP an win EVE.

Last weeks most complains:

whaaaahaaa Interceptors haz intercepted maah, mommy halp maah whaaaahaaa...

Now take Worm / Gila and make them disappear!

You just learned how to get on the path of the better pilots in EVE, congratulations!

You are welcome!

-snip-
I read this twice and still don't understand what you are trying to say. You replied to my post but didn't actually address what I said.

I have no problem with scary pirate ships. I fly them myself. Worm is still OP relative to the other pirate ships. And as for your pay to win rant, surely that is just another reason to nerf them.

No person with a brain can argue that the worm isn't the most powerful frigate in the game at the moment

So a ship is not OP as long as it can be countered by itself? Then why not give the Worm 100k EHP and 1000 DPS? After all, it could still be countered by itself.

You have actually given a good functional definition of overpowered. A ship is OP if it is difficult to counter it with another type of ship.

A garmur is still better, due to how it scales with links.

[quote=Zappity]
What is wrong about a ship that I can finally use for my solo style of flying?

Before the Worm was made an actual pirate boat, nobody wanted to fly them and now that they are good, people complain that they cannot beat them with an Ibis, yeah that's too bad, maybe you folks forget that pirate boats are supposed to be stronger than tech2 boats and shouldn't explode by the looks of an assault ship..

I will say that the Gila and Worm do have great DPS and tanking ability, The Gila being able to get damn near close to 1000dps, and the Worm 350. But is hard to get the fit due to fitting.

However, I would also say that these ships all have a weakness. The Gila is allergic to neuts, and the Worm is medicor/hard to fit properly, but also is allergic to neuts.

They are not OP, but you won't be taking down a faction frig with a Tech 2 AF, mainly because Pirate Faction ships are meant to be better than a AF, at least in a role that the faction frig is suppose to place in.

the dps on gila in particular is a little high

the dps on Gila in particular is a little high

And a Serpentis boat with an inbuilt immobilizer and very angry neutron blasters only does 1200dps so its all good and stuff..

I like my Gurista ships and they suit my style of flying very well, well at least until I jump into Tama and my beautiful ship explodes by association or Ishtars or both.

.


Depending of the Worms fit I suppose would be a better way to put it. But again, the Worm isn't the be all end all. The 350 dps need Augmented Drones, otherwise you get around 300, the 10k buffer tank is tech 2 but it other assault frigates can also run up to that.

The Worm can do a huge amount of DPS with a good tank, but it is slow, a fast micro fitted ship can out run it's drones. The Worm from what I've seen is limited to a AB.

The worm can be counted by a Crow, or a Slicer. Just as long as pilot can kite propperly.

I personally would say if the ships need a nerf, it would be a slight one, maybe keeping the DPS the same, but changing the drone HP bonus? Or limiting the fitting so that only a scram could be fitted rather than the point?




Since when is a shield tanked ship, capless? Weapons and drones are capless yeah cool, but as soon as your loss your resists, you're 60k tanks suddenly become 18k.

I do not respond to npcs

We warned that this would happen. CCP is probably going to fix this in the next ship balancing pass.

Like how they are balancing the ishtar right now?

SASB, MASB, LASB, XLASB.

You kind of lost all credibility with that last bit.

Since when is a shield tanked ship, capless? Weapons and drones are capless yeah cool, but as soon as your loss your resists, you're 60k tanks suddenly become 18k.

The fact that the Gila is fairly soft against neuts does not mean the ship isn't OP.

It does T1 battleship damage, and can apply it almost as well as a destroyer or frigate, at both point blank and short range, or (with some issues) medium range.

There are other ships that can do comparable damage at point blank range (the Catalyst comes to mind) but they are extreme glass cannons and unable to do anything at medium range, where the Gila still performs well.

The Gila is countered fairly well by interceptors (which can stalemate it but not kill it, but the interceptor controls the engagement) and by neuting ships. Other than that, it dominates against pretty much everything else.

Look at the 6 month price graph of the other traditional pirate cruisers and frigates from serpentis, blood raiders, and angels and compare it to guristas.

The rattlesnake was about the cheapest pirate bs out there. So you would think if the ships were balanced the gurista frigates and cruisers would be cheaper than the pirate cruisers and frigates. (because all the lp would be going to supply them) Yet its the opposite.

Does anyone who knows how modules work believe the worm and gila are not clearly stronger than the other traditional pirate cruisers and frigates?

Do you think the new hull changes and rework of the drone skill points could be a cause of their increased popularity?

I'm not sure why ccp made these ships so strong. Perhaps they didn't realize how powerful they would be when combined with the buffs to drones.

In a way they are victim of their own success as no one will fight them unless it's bait.

Why not balance them with the other pirate ships? I don't care whether the buff the other pirate frigs and cruisers or nerf the worm and gila or both. But its pretty lopsided right now.

~600 DPS isn't even that good though? Ishtars and VNIs can push 800 with just drones, and they're both considerably cheaper.

I'd like to know why he feels the drones are overpowered, at all. There are only two of the damn things anyway.

Shoot the Drones. It is simple.

I'm just glad I bought a dozen Worm when they were still 52m each a month before the patch.





...back when I was probably the only person in the entire game regularly using them for PVP.

Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?

Shoot the Drones. It is simple.

~600 DPS isn't even that good though? Ishtars and VNIs can push 800 with just drones, and they're both considerably cheaper.

I'd like to know why he feels the drones are overpowered, at all. There are only two of the damn things anyway.

Shoot the Drones. It is simple.

Not factoring resist, you need to shoot trough 11.1k HP of Hobgoblin II drones for a Worm to be out of drones.
I think it's safe to assume that if you are flying a frigate you'll be toasted before that.

For a Gila that's 66.6k HP worth of Hammerhead II.

shtars are heavy assault cruisers. VNIs are faction cruisers.

Worms are TECH ONE FRIGATES. Find me a tech one frigate that can do that kind of damage and be immune to ECM and you'll have presented a fair comparison.

WUT?

Ishtars are heavy assault cruisers. VNIs are faction cruisers.

Worms are TECH ONE FRIGATES. Find me a tech one frigate that can do that kind of damage and be immune to ECM and you'll have presented a fair comparison.

No it is a pirate faction ship. Did you miss the point of why they rebalanced the ships? Pirate ships are supposed to be stronger than T1 and some T2 ships of the same hull class.

Are...are you sure about those numbers? If so then I take everything I said in this thread and they need a nerf hard. XD I didn't think the EHP on the Hammers were that high. Jesus.


EDIT: that for one drone? Or for all the drones combined? Because 400k of ehp to chew if each drone has 66k eHP.

Yes, it's a pirate faction tech 1 ship. I fly a racial faction tech 1 frig, which is a comet. They are all tech 1 frigs and supposed to be fairly much even.

In this situation, "rebalancing" has left the seesaw stuck to the damn ground. Again, I ask you to find me anything that is classed as a tech one frigate, (which includes dramiels, daredevils, firetails, hookbills etc.) that can produce anything close to the stats you've seen posted for the worm on this thread.

Y'all need to stop posting on the forums and come try to fight the things. If they're not overpowered, you should quite easily be able to solo kill one in an equivalent ship class, amiright?

https://zkillboard.com/ship/17930/losses/
As you can see, Worms don't die a lot to solo frigate.


Slicer for Reference (what can be called a pretty well balanced ship)
https://zkillboard.com/ship/17703/losses/


Gila don't die much as well but 1v1 cruiser fight are much rarer than frigate duels.
https://zkillboard.com/ship/17715/losses/

If someone care to do some proper datamining...

The ship progression goes like this T1 > Navy > T2 > Pirate. This is why pirate ships have role bonuses and navy ships don't.

Yes, it's a pirate faction tech 1 ship. I fly a racial faction tech 1 frig, which is a comet. They are all tech 1 frigs and supposed to be fairly much even.

Again, I ask you to find me anything that is classed as a tech one frigate, (which includes dramiels, daredevils, firetails, hookbills etc.) that can produce anything close to the stats you've seen posted for the worm on this thread.

Anyhow, I like my Gurista boat just fine the way they are right now, as king of the heavens not a joke that everyone else were making fun of

The ship progression goes like this T1 > Navy > T2 > Pirate. This is why pirate ships have role bonuses and navy ships don't.