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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.02 03:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Drutort on 02/10/2003 06:10:48
My concern about this hole issue with Jamming sentries is, that the DevÆs GMÆs might have over looked something.
Simple analogy as to how the AI in EVE is working and why its flawed. After you read this you can relate to EVE.
ôbad guyö is pirate
ôcopö is sentry gun, or concord ship etc..
ôhostageö is jamming
There is a bad guy (pirate) he takes hostage a cop (jams a sentry gun, or concord ship) The only way for you to rescue the cop is to attack the bad guyà fine you do so, the cop is then free, but instead of firing at the bad guy the cop fires at you!!
Now you would say what hell is wrong with that picture?
Well I tell you thatÆs how the game works in EVE!!
Exampleà Pirate with -2sec jams the sentry guns, you attack the pirate so that the sentry guns are not jammed, you then get attacked by the sentry guns, because the -2sec pirate is not KOS, so now you got the pirate attacking you and the PIRATE is able to defend him self.
THAT IS STUPID.
The AI, should have threat priority or simply to say, it should have priority who to kill first, and it should always retaliate or kill the person that attacks it, that would be jamming or firing up on.
In this game you canÆt really help out the cops in anyway, attacking someone who is not -5sec will make you the most wanted and on the high priority list to kill, and all other older aggressions are forgotten.
This in essence means that pirates can use the sentry guns to there advantageà the pirate that is not jamming the sentry guns, can freely attack you, and you cant attack the ones that are jamming because if you do the jamming is broken and the latest aggression is YOU, and the pirates donÆt even have to kill you the mass 200-500dmg every 2sec sentry guns will blow you up.
=========( update )============
ppl still dont get it do they?
once you jam that pirate that was jamming the sentry guns, the sentry guns always attack the current threat/aggression
the FACT that the pirates were jamming the sentry guns is the old aggression...
I would think that the sentry guns would need a priority KOS!!! hehe that is kill those that are first a threat or were a threat to YOU, then deal with PC vs PC or PC vs NPC aggression...
the sentry guns should always have the first pri of self defending...
I do not think this was coded into the game and now it can be exploited as i said above. It is an exploit, the pirates gain the fire power of the sentnry guns, why? because if you attack the pirates that are jamming the sentry guns they, unjam the sentry guns and they sentry guns BLOW YOU AWAY...
and if they do not attack you first there 3rd FRIEND WILL ATTACK YOU EITHER WAY YOU LOSE!!
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.02 03:43:00 -
[2]
I think this shows also the weakness in the hole PvP system... and the problems that the limitations or the current state that could lead to...
I really dont see how this could be fixed easy by CCP...
unless they change the hole thing with the aggression.
NOTE im not saying that jamming sentry guns is an exploit or that anyone is ATT, but with the above you could see probably that it can be exploited.
as far as goes that a person who is freeing a sentry from being jammed would be attacked... which just shows the weakness of this game...
BTW at the time i dont see how you can boost a sentries strength from long range... i dont see how unless i must be missing something.
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.10.02 03:49:00 -
[3]
The act of using ECM on the sentry guns would cause it to hostile the pirates even if the guns couldn't fire. So whenever the jamming stopped the original pirates would be fired upon. Also the bounty hunter/vigilanty types would be silly to fire upon anyone who hasn't fired on them if they were within sentry gun range.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.02 03:52:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
...
I have yet to prove this theory, but its only on paper, but I think if the game mechanics work like they do now, this can be exploited and I think is a current exploit.
...
Please do try your theory.
Quote:
Empire owned sentry guns are now none-jammable.
It's only people guessing that the guns are jammed and doing nothing. As I said before, a person in the middle of getting shot/webified/warp scrambled is not the most reliable witness. They tend to be kinda distracted at the time.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
NymphoGrrrl
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Posted - 2003.10.02 04:03:00 -
[5]
It is being exploited right now, friend was killed while Space Invaders sat next to the sentry guns in 0.4 sec space, Aurohunen system. They laughed and when asked why they are using an exploit, said "because we can".
Lame, very lame, hope the whole corp is removed like the ebayers were.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.02 04:14:00 -
[6]
Quote:
It is being exploited right now, friend was killed while Space Invaders sat next to the sentry guns in 0.4 sec space, Aurohunen system. They laughed and when asked why they are using an exploit, said "because we can".
Lame, very lame, hope the whole corp is removed like the ebayers were.
The word "Sucker" comes to mind. But do continue to fall for it.
It's been reported to the GMs who said what they're doing isn't an exploit.
For a change TomB has heard of it and
Quote:
[ 2003.10.01 22:53:46 ] Roulette > can we get a straight answer on what is or is not considered an exploit? for example, players have come across "pirates" with -10 security camping gates in empire space 0.1-0.4 which don't get attacked by sentry guns, and whom you can't attack without getting blown away by sentry guns. Is this an exploit, and if not, how are players supposed to deal with these sort of "pirates"? And if something is an exploit, can someone please tell all the GMs? half the time it seems that the GMs can't even agree on these sort of things, so you get conflicting results when petitioning.
[ 2003.10.01 22:55:23 ] TomB > I have never seen this case with my own eyes, I've heared about it a few times but I have never seen a proof of this happening
[ 2003.10.01 22:55:56 ] TomB > And I have never been able to reproduce this situation
Emphasis added to make it a bit clearer. So maybe...just maybe...juuuuuuuuuust maybe what you think is happening isn't really happening?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
AnyDayNow
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Posted - 2003.10.02 04:17:00 -
[7]
its obvioulsy possible
those people who shoot at pirates 1st die if sentries are unjammed
those are get shot at by pirates die becuase the guns will be jammed
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.10.02 04:21:00 -
[8]
Drutort,
Before you run to the forums with your wild hypotheses why don't you try to go and test out your theories?
Sentry guns attack the FIRST aggressor not the last aggressor. Thus if the jam is broken on the sentry guns the person that would be toasted is the ones who were jamming them in the first place.
Believe me, I've learned this the hard way.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.02 04:21:00 -
[9]
Quote:
its obvioulsy possible
those people who shoot at pirates 1st die if sentries are unjammed
those are get shot at by pirates die becuase the guns will be jammed
And if the guns are already attacking one of the pirates? It's an exploit if the pirate refuses to go *boom*?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.10.02 04:22:00 -
[10]
Quote:
It is being exploited right now, friend was killed while Space Invaders sat next to the sentry guns in 0.4 sec space, Aurohunen system. They laughed and when asked why they are using an exploit, said "because we can".
Lame, very lame, hope the whole corp is removed like the ebayers were.
haha, you should get your facts straight. GMs know what we're doing and they've told us that this is no exploit, its totally legimate. It has nothing to do with ANY possible exploit of game mechanics or anything else.
So pls dont come here accusing us of exploiting when we're not.
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NymphoGrrrl
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Posted - 2003.10.02 04:28:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Quote:
It is being exploited right now, friend was killed while Space Invaders sat next to the sentry guns in 0.4 sec space, Aurohunen system. They laughed and when asked why they are using an exploit, said "because we can".
Lame, very lame, hope the whole corp is removed like the ebayers were.
The word "Sucker" comes to mind. But do continue to fall for it.
It's been reported to the GMs who said what they're doing isn't an exploit.
For a change TomB has heard of it and
Quote:
[ 2003.10.01 22:53:46 ] Roulette > can we get a straight answer on what is or is not considered an exploit? for example, players have come across "pirates" with -10 security camping gates in empire space 0.1-0.4 which don't get attacked by sentry guns, and whom you can't attack without getting blown away by sentry guns. Is this an exploit, and if not, how are players supposed to deal with these sort of "pirates"? And if something is an exploit, can someone please tell all the GMs? half the time it seems that the GMs can't even agree on these sort of things, so you get conflicting results when petitioning.
[ 2003.10.01 22:55:23 ] TomB > I have never seen this case with my own eyes, I've heared about it a few times but I have never seen a proof of this happening
[ 2003.10.01 22:55:56 ] TomB > And I have never been able to reproduce this situation
Emphasis added to make it a bit clearer. So maybe...just maybe...juuuuuuuuuust maybe what you think is happening isn't really happening?
As with many expoits of the past, the GM's won't admit to them, until they have clearance from CCP, usualy after the exploit is patched, and acknowledged as one, which is too late in this case now, he cancled both his accounts. He was tired of the griefers ruining what is a game with potential. And "GM's that won't enforce the rules, or take a stance against exploiters". He has a right to both his opinion, and to keep his money out of CCP's bank account.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.10.02 04:32:00 -
[12]
I dont care if your friend quit the game, but you cant accuse us of exploiting when we arent. None of the game mechanics are being abused, no loophole is being used, no bug, not even the smallest bug is being exploited.
So for all i care your friend can cancel all his accounts, no problem with us, but dont come here screaming sploit sploit! when its not the case.
-
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NymphoGrrrl
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Posted - 2003.10.02 04:43:00 -
[13]
Quote:
I dont care if your friend quit the game, but you cant accuse us of exploiting when we arent. None of the game mechanics are being abused, no loophole is being used, no bug, not even the smallest bug is being exploited.
So for all i care your friend can cancel all his accounts, no problem with us, but dont come here screaming sploit sploit! when its not the case.
...or what Mr Exploiter, or what??? You going to make a few more empty threats???
You griefers are all the same, blame the bug/loophole, in the games mechanics, make up a new excuse little boy.
Time will show the truth, and as with all the past exploits, they will be acknowledged, although to late to keep those lost accounts paying.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.10.02 04:49:00 -
[14]
Ok i see that you just want to flame, well flame on... by yourself
And I think there is forum moderation against those who accuse people of cheating/exploiting without ANY basis what so ever.
But for all of the people out there that actually want to know (not flame):
we arent exploiting, its pretty obvious that we arent but just to give some people what they want we've asked the GMs and they have confirmed that this has NOTHING to do with exploiting. Its actually a pretty simple (although risky) tactic. Forgive us for discovering it 
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Intruders
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Posted - 2003.10.02 04:54:00 -
[15]
Hmm..NymphoGrrrrl I found your name offending, I think I pettition a harasment for them to remove it..Hows that now?
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
NymphoGrrrl
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Posted - 2003.10.02 04:55:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Ok i see that you just want to flame, well flame on... by yourself
And I think there is forum moderation against those who accuse people of cheating/exploiting without ANY basis what so ever.
But for all of the people out there that actually want to know (not flame):
we arent exploiting, its pretty obvious that we arent but just to give some people what they want we've asked the GMs and they have confirmed that this has NOTHING to do with exploiting. Its actually a pretty simple (although risky) tactic. Forgive us for discovering it
Th essence of an exploit, is to find a means to take advantage of the games mechanics. No one said it was easy, or un-risky to do, yet it is still an exploit if it was not DESIGNED to be done , i.e. a bug/loophole.
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NymphoGrrrl
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Posted - 2003.10.02 04:56:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Hmm..NymphoGrrrrl I found your name offending, I think I pettition a harasment for them to remove it..Hows that now?
grow up little boy, grow up
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Intruders
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:00:00 -
[18]
Yeah, I have a kid sister that gaze some time over my shoulder while I sit on the pc, I dont want her to know from this early age what a nymphomaniac is, mind you? I just want HER to grow up..right. So I guess a pettition should be legit. Take care.
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Van Feneal
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:04:00 -
[19]
All of you Space Invaders are cheap a$$holes. You dont deserve to play this game. I was caught in your cheap trap in Aurohunen earlier. You all should find a better way too waste your time and not ruin the game for the rest of us.
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J3tt
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:05:00 -
[20]
Edited by: J3tt on 02/10/2003 05:05:56
jesus tapdancing christ you people cry exploit like little *****s...nothing can happen fair and square...you just cry exploit and go *****ing all the time...pay the toll and you are free to go...PWNT
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Can your pod outrun a cruise missle? |
Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:05:00 -
[21]
They ruined the game?!
*runs to check on game*
Nope, still going strong.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Intruders
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:14:00 -
[22]
Quote:
a$$holes
I personaly will propose to remove your main character instead of your alt from these forums.
I cant see people who cant stand the heat from a little online game and instead of dealing with it in game, in a forum where other people who dont actually participate to this may be reading, people who break all hell lose on the forums making it hard for everyone who havent moved to another game like so many others to keep whatever little fun is left.
If I was to enter EVE now I would not do it, if I was witness of the attitude of such people. So immature so childish, accusing everyone else, when themselves break every rule of descent behavior for absolutely no reason. Its not a reason to be impolite when you losing in a game. I think its about time the GM's do something!
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
NymphoGrrrl
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:15:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Yeah, I have a kid sister that gaze some time over my shoulder while I sit on the pc, I dont want her to know from this early age what a nymphomaniac is, mind you? I just want HER to grow up..right. So I guess a pettition should be legit. Take care.
Well darling, best look at all the players with the nympho in their name, now go ask mommy for a new pacifier. (little boys will be little boys)
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Intruders
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:16:00 -
[24]
I suppose Veruna you re happy with what these forums have become. Im not and I will not continue to support this farse with my money.
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:20:00 -
[25]
you guys are not getting my point...
I am saying the sentry guns are gammed by say -2sec pirates...
you go and jam the -2sec pirate... the sentry guns are free to fire at whoever...
the question is WHO will they fire on?? obviously it seems that they would fire AT YOU, because you attacked the -2sec players and that was the last aggression not that the pirates were jamming the sentry GUNS!!!
this is what im getting at...
im saying you try to unjam the sentry guns by jamming the original jammers BUT in RETURN YOU GET FIRED UP ON!! if they are not -5sec
in which case this can be done and they could be there for long time etc...
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Intruders
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:20:00 -
[26]
You are the real grifers, you grief on other people patience and good manners. Will see who gets the pacifier or the stfu from the forums.
Out.
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:24:00 -
[27]
I dont care that the pirates can jam the sentry guns... what im saying IS that when you jam the -2sec pirate you will be attacked by the sentry guns!! as they are FREE, and then the -2sec pirates can attack you as you started the agression!!
get it?
i would be perfectly fine with them jamming the sentry guns SO LONG AS I COULD STOP THEM, and not get smacked by the sentry guns i was trying to unjam so to speak!!
it is a win win situation for hte pirates and a lose lose situation for you!!
you would have to then JAM the sentry guns your self and fight the pirates at SAME TIME!! while the pirates would be free to run or jam you!!
its really lame thats all...
some kind of system that would say who cares if you attack the player that was jamming the sentry guns...
the sentry guns should have HIGHER priority KILL, and that would be the PIRATES that JAMMED THEM FIRST not the agression that HAPPEND WITH you JAMING the PIRATE!!!
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Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:32:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Quote:
Ok i see that you just want to flame, well flame on... by yourself
And I think there is forum moderation against those who accuse people of cheating/exploiting without ANY basis what so ever.
But for all of the people out there that actually want to know (not flame):
we arent exploiting, its pretty obvious that we arent but just to give some people what they want we've asked the GMs and they have confirmed that this has NOTHING to do with exploiting. Its actually a pretty simple (although risky) tactic. Forgive us for discovering it
Th essence of an exploit, is to find a means to take advantage of the games mechanics. No one said it was easy, or un-risky to do, yet it is still an exploit if it was not DESIGNED to be done , i.e. a bug/loophole.
You are assuming that what they are doing is not designed to be done.
I just visited this blockade (Gotta be faster to get my pod though guys... ) and if they are doing what I'm 95% sure they are doing, it is 100% LEGAL AND WELL WITHIN THE DESIGN OF THE GAME.
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
cball
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:34:00 -
[29]
Quote:
I dont care that the pirates can jam the sentry guns... what im saying IS that when you jam the -2sec pirate you will be attacked by the sentry guns!! as they are FREE, and then the -2sec pirates can attack you as you started the agression!!
get it?
i would be perfectly fine with them jamming the sentry guns SO LONG AS I COULD STOP THEM, and not get smacked by the sentry guns i was trying to unjam so to speak!!
it is a win win situation for hte pirates and a lose lose situation for you!!
you would have to then JAM the sentry guns your self and fight the pirates at SAME TIME!! while the pirates would be free to run or jam you!!
its really lame thats all...
some kind of system that would say who cares if you attack the player that was jamming the sentry guns...
the sentry guns should have HIGHER priority KILL, and that would be the PIRATES that JAMMED THEM FIRST not the agression that HAPPEND WITH you JAMING the PIRATE!!!
Has all the elements of a MISTAKE in the design and intent of the usage.
Has CCP said anything offical on this?
...fear the evil monkey in your hanger...
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:36:00 -
[30]
read the main thread again, i have an updated section, maybe that clears some stuff up...
im not talking about that jamming sentry guns is exploit!! that IS NOT, its how the aggression system WORKs!! that can be exploited!!
it has to do with how the sentry guns respond to new/old aggression!! if you read it well you will get what im trying to say
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