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J3tt
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:42:00 -
[31]
no drutort you are just a retard...think harder
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Can your pod outrun a cruise missle? |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:46:00 -
[32]
Drutort don't attack someone with -2.0 if you don't want to be attacked by sentry guns. Fool.
Also note that sentry guns attack the first aggressor, not the last aggressor. Go test these things out before you come whining about it on the forums.
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iconoclast
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:51:00 -
[33]
well i got blowed up last night in aurohenen, and me corp mate got shot there tonight. and we sure didnt quit the game because of it. in fact, thats just plain stupid and weak. as in "whiney little crybaby weak". my corp mate even lost 16K of skill points. but and all he had to say was the buggers that got him all had really dumb names...
why dont you tell your friend to grow a spine and come back and join up with a bounty hunting squad? build up the allies and skills needed to go after SI one day? one brick at a time. the more they pod, the more recruits they will generate for such an undertaking.
your friend took the stroll down washout lane. as always, its a choice everyone gets to make for themselves.
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Van Feneal
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Posted - 2003.10.02 05:53:00 -
[34]
I like your idea Iconoclast. That is now my goal in this game.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:05:00 -
[35]
"it has to do with how the sentry guns respond to new/old aggression!! if you read it well you will get what im trying to say "
... Mr.Drutort, like Cao already said, NPC have some sort of "first in, first out" aggression queue. Meaning, each of them attacks the targets in order they were registered in the sentry/police vessel memory. (it gets a bit tricky with respawns but that's another story)
So bottom line is, you really don't need to worry about any possible exploit here. :s
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:08:00 -
[36]
 Quote:
"it has to do with how the sentry guns respond to new/old aggression!! if you read it well you will get what im trying to say"
... Mr.Drutort, like Cao already said, NPC have some sort of "first in, first out" aggression queue. Meaning, each of them attacks the targets in order they were registered in the sentry/police vessel memory. (it gets a bit tricky with respawns but that's another story)
So bottom line is, you really don't need to worry about any possible exploit here. :s
yes no exploit, only the fact that you cant attack those that are jamming the sentry guns, cause all the pirates would have to do is break there jamming and the sentry guns w aste you!!
wow that means that 2 bb's can have 200-500dmg/2sec of fire power on there side AND YOU CANT DO JACK ABOUT IT LOL
HEY PPL NO EXPLOIT HERE< it was meant to be that way!!!
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:14:00 -
[37]
Edited by: j0sephine on 02/10/2003 06:15:01
"yes no exploit, only the fact that you cant attack those that are jamming the sentry guns, cause all the pirates would have to do is break there jamming and the sentry guns w aste you!!"
... No, 'tis incorrect. You are forgetting that jamming itself is offensive action, meaning those who jam the guns are registered as first targets in the sentries' queue. So if the guns became unjammed, they would attack their original target i.e. those who'd jammed them in the first place.
And it's all presuming the sentries can be jammed at all, which is quite unlikely given the patch notes and the GMs not finding anything wrong in SI tactics...
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NymphoGrrrl
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:18:00 -
[38]
Quote:
"it has to do with how the sentry guns respond to new/old aggression!! if you read it well you will get what im trying to say"
... Mr.Drutort, like Cao already said, NPC have some sort of "first in, first out" aggression queue. Meaning, each of them attacks the targets in order they were registered in the sentry/police vessel memory. (it gets a bit tricky with respawns but that's another story)
So bottom line is, you really don't need to worry about any possible exploit here. :s
If they are in empire space (0.4 still counts for sec-hits), and they pk, how can they leave( systems all around are 0.5 and up, so concord would object)? Maybe a few dozen cruisers could show up with torpedoes and take out those that are jamming the sentry guns, then see how SI does without them.
Those cruisers should be 'disposable' ones, since they would be blown up for killing in empire space. 
I have to wonder now as the original poster did. I can't see how the non-pirates can take out the pirates here, without losing thier ships to concord....is this a design intention, or another "oops" on CCP's part?
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:19:00 -
[39]
Drutort,
Do you even bother to read what other people post? I've replied to both of your threads saying that THE FIRST PEOPLE TO BE WASTED BY SENTRIES IF LOCK IS BROKEN ARE THE PEOPLE JAMMING THEM.
So while your so-called pirates are being blown to bits you can make a quick getaway.
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:20:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Edited by: j0sephine on 02/10/2003 06:15:01
"yes no exploit, only the fact that you cant attack those that are jamming the sentry guns, cause all the pirates would have to do is break there jamming and the sentry guns w aste you!!"
... No, 'tis incorrect. You are forgetting that jamming itself is offensive action, meaning those who jam the guns are registered as first targets in the sentries' queue. So if the guns became unjammed, they would attack their original target i.e. those who'd jammed them in the first place.
LOL HOW IS THE JAMMING BROKEN??? TELL ME?? WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD THE PIRATES BRAKE THE JAMMING IF YOU DIDNT ATTACK THEM??
ONCE YOU ATTACK THEM THEY LET IT GO... and YOUR LAST AGGRESSION IS WHAT THE SENTRY GUNS WILL FALLOW NOT THE JAMMING
jeez get it r ight!! and yes sentry guns can be jammed thats what many ppl are saying it takes just more jamming but it works again
HENCE why i said the hole thread name why its a BAD IDEA for them be able to be jammed in the first place BECAUSE OF HOW THE AGGRESSION SYSTEM WORKS!!
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:33:00 -
[41]
"ONCE YOU ATTACK THEM THEY LET IT GO... and YOUR LAST AGGRESSION IS WHAT THE SENTRY GUNS WILL FALLOW NOT THE JAMMING"
... OK, is it now your guess, or have you actually experienced the sentries to act like that? Am asking because 'tis exactly opposite to my own (and bit painful =) experience with the NPC AI, so would be nice to know if it deserves some further testing...
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Supe
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:36:00 -
[42]
How is it a flaw you attacked a -2 sec rating player and that is a higher level offence then jamming a sentry gun. Bottem line is you attacked a player you shouldn't have.
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:38:00 -
[43]
Quote:
"ONCE YOU ATTACK THEM THEY LET IT GO... and YOUR LAST AGGRESSION IS WHAT THE SENTRY GUNS WILL FALLOW NOT THE JAMMING"
... OK, is it now your guess, or have you actually experienced the sentries to act like that? Am asking because 'tis exactly opposite to my own (and bit painful =) experience with the NPC AI, so would be nice to know if it deserves some further testing...
it has to be so if the AI works on first in last out or whatever, meaning that first aggression is going to be last one and any new aggression gets put first...
that means that the jamming was last aggression as your aggression attacking the jamming pirates became first!!
and no i dont have the time to test it...
if you like go prove me wrong go on chaos
i would like to be 100% sure my self but knowing that it hasnt changed and thats how it works, ya i woul be right then
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:40:00 -
[44]
Quote:
How is it a flaw you attacked a -2 sec rating player and that is a higher level offence then jamming a sentry gun. Bottem line is you attacked a player you shouldn't have.
why because they use the sentry guns to there advantage...
all they need is one other person to do the attacking and the jammer ppl dont have to attack...
do you not see that its a WIN WIN for them...
and either you try and fight off the guy who is freally to attack you, or you try to attack the ones that are jamming the sentry guns...
IF you dont attack the ones that are jamming the sentry guns THEY can still BLOW YOU UP and the sentry GUNS ARE STILL JAMMED...
means YOU LOSE ONCE AGAIN...
do you see that there is no real ballance here? that they can use the sentry guns to there advantage, which SHOULD NOT BE LOL,
READ MY ANALAGY on the first THREAD you see how stupid it is in the game then!!
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:44:00 -
[45]
"it has to be so if the AI works on first in last out or whatever, meaning that first aggression is going to be last one and any new aggression gets put first...
(..)
and no i dont have the time to test it...
if you like go prove me wrong go on chaos "
... *sighs* Mr.Drutort, i did test in on Chaos; and to my experience the NPC AI works in the "first in first out" order. (which can be used to one's advantage as well but that's another story)
I can't provide any proof (it's easy to get it from Chaos if one's so inclined) but i swear on my dumb red head, i believe this whole thread is moot. :s
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:48:00 -
[46]
Quote:
"it has to be so if the AI works on first in last out or whatever, meaning that first aggression is going to be last one and any new aggression gets put first...
(..)
and no i dont have the time to test it...
if you like go prove me wrong go on chaos "
... *sighs* Mr.Drutort, i did test in on Chaos; and to my experience the NPC AI works in the "first in first out" order. (which can be used to one's advantage as well but that's another story)
I can't provide any proof (it's easy to get it from Chaos if one's so inclined) but i swear on my dumb red head, i believe this whole thread is moot. :s
bah im not sure which one it is as in first in first out or first in last out whatever... i explained what i meant...
to test this you will need either 1 scorp and a person who warps in to attack the scorp, in which the scorp then breakes the jamming on the sentry...
and see will the sentry guns attack that person who is attacking hte scorp or the one who jammed the sentry guns first...
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Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:48:00 -
[47]
The discussion is moot because that's not how they are doing it.
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:54:00 -
[48]
Depends if the sentries really do attack the first agressor or the last.
As it is, all you have to do is fire back when fired upon.
I'm sure any decent anti-pirating group will soon turn up and own them.
Especially if they have war slots free.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:56:00 -
[49]
"bah im not sure which one it is as in first in first out or first in last out whatever... i explained what i meant..."
Yes, you explained what you meant; and it's not how it actually works. In other words, your theory is wrong.
... Forgive me, but i'll drop this thread now; there's simply nothing i could possibly add to it that'd change your mind...
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.10.02 06:59:00 -
[50]
There's no need to change Drutort's mind. He's been told flat out by people who were there killing and people who died there that this isn't anywhere close to the method they were using. He is just babbling on now desperately trying not to look foolish.
He needs to learn to use less smiley faces in his posts and it wouldn't be like reading a children's book.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Tank CEO
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Posted - 2003.10.02 07:09:00 -
[51]
Man I can't beleive my eyes. You carebears are never satisfied are you.
Sentry guns used to be able to be jammed by 1 jammer, didn't matter which cause the sentries only had 1 sensor strength.
Now, they boosted it up to where you need 4 jammers specified to its race to be jammable.. So that means you need a total of 8 jammers...
Now, if you take that away, sentry guns are GOD. Lets take a look of the sentries stats..
- 300-400 Damage per shot without accuracy falloff
- 60km Range with no accuracy falloff
- Spawn rate which is about 20-30 seconds make the sentry guns unstoppable even if u blow them up
- Incredible amount of sheilds and armor.
Now, you tell me, is making the guns not jammable fair? There has to be a way to kill them and CCP made it so they can be jammable and stopable.. or they would be God and unfair to everyone.
Stop your complaining, if you don't like the blockade, get a fleet up and go kill em, stop asking CCP to kill them for you.
---
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.02 07:47:00 -
[52]
Quote:
There's no need to change Drutort's mind. He's been told flat out by people who were there killing and people who died there that this isn't anywhere close to the method they were using. He is just babbling on now desperately trying not to look foolish.
He needs to learn to use less smiley faces in his posts and it wouldn't be like reading a children's book.
I wasnt talking about those "people" i was talking about this problem in general, and i said that IF and ONLY IF this was true this will be a problem... I will have to go and test it when i have the time on choas.
why are you bring the issue up, i didnt say anything about that set of ppl or anything at all....
I SAID IF IT WAS TRUE, it COULD BE USED, and IF COULD BE USED it should be FIXED.
I didnt even know that sentry guns were jammable again until ppl told me, so i looked at the situation and saw if the system works as it does then there is a MAJOR problem...
this has nothing to do with the pirates that are doing this, nore anything about being a carebear... it was just brought to attention.
And still seems that i will have to go and test this my self as im the only one who seems to know what hell im talking about 100%
so stop the flaming and the bashing as i didnt even say that this is a fact only IF it worked as i thought it did then it would be a problem... and i didnt talk about any of the specific pirates or incidents.
so LAY OFF the pointless replies and add something that has some use
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NymphoGrrrl
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Posted - 2003.10.02 07:48:00 -
[53]
Quote:
Man I can't beleive my eyes. You carebears are never satisfied are you.
Sentry guns used to be able to be jammed by 1 jammer, didn't matter which cause the sentries only had 1 sensor strength.
Now, they boosted it up to where you need 4 jammers specified to its race to be jammable.. So that means you need a total of 8 jammers...
Now, if you take that away, sentry guns are GOD. Lets take a look of the sentries stats..
- 300-400 Damage per shot without accuracy falloff
- 60km Range with no accuracy falloff
- Spawn rate which is about 20-30 seconds make the sentry guns unstoppable even if u blow them up
- Incredible amount of sheilds and armor.
Now, you tell me, is making the guns not jammable fair? There has to be a way to kill them and CCP made it so they can be jammable and stopable.. or they would be God and unfair to everyone.
Stop your complaining, if you don't like the blockade, get a fleet up and go kill em, stop asking CCP to kill them for you.
You missed the point (isn't that a surprise from a known griefer), non pirates firing on the prirates, lose security if they kill, are the first ones the sentry will shoot once the jamming stops. The pirates win no matter how the non-pirates approach this FLAWED mechanic of the game.
Where they are, and how they are doing it is the problem. It's a classic "Tank exploiting the mechanics move" for lack of a better term.
If the GM's can't see how this is an exploit, or pull their classic move of waiting till it's fixed to call it an exploit, then the Eve population will drindle until they haven't the income to keep the cluster on line.
(look at the stats, a steady decline in usage of the game, people are leaving, not returning, and not many of the 30 day trials are sticking around, I wonder why....could it be exploiters, griefers, and the bugs, ohmy----------)
This was my 3rd shot at eve to test the waters before I allow CCP to have a dime, and it may never get one---boyfriend is patient, but he too is fed up, and he is a pirate ingame, imagion that, a pirate is tired of the griefers and exploiters ruining the game for all.
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.02 07:52:00 -
[54]
Quote:
Stop your complaining, if you don't like the blockade, get a fleet up and go kill em, stop asking CCP to kill them for you.
you hardly read any of my thread as it seems, or you wouldnÆt come posting this crap here at all, notice that my threads are not your avg EVE threads full of nothing but whining and flaming.
I was making assumptions and based on those assumptions i presented that IF they were true an thats how it worked then there would be a room for exploit, as in gaining the sentry guns to do the work for you, if you were the one who jammed them.
READ STUFF BEFORE POSTING.
i dont care to be wrong, because i said so it was a theory and assumption!!!
get your head out of your ass, and READ THE THREADS ACTUALLY!!
When i get the time ill test it and report it my self... even though seems that it works diff, but until i dont test it i cant be 100% sure cause im the only one who knows what hell keep talking about 100%
i would be happy if it worked diff, but im sure there will still be some new issue that i might find
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McWatt
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Posted - 2003.10.02 07:55:00 -
[55]
stop assumptions. this is f******bull.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.10.02 07:56:00 -
[56]
Quote:
I was making assumptions and based on those assumptions i presented that IF they were true an thats how it worked then there would be a room for exploit, as in gaining the sentry guns to do the work for you, if you were the one who jammed them.
Your assumptions were incorrect.
Quote:
READ STUFF BEFORE POSTING.
Test stuff before posting.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.02 08:03:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Quote:
I was making assumptions and based on those assumptions i presented that IF they were true an thats how it worked then there would be a room for exploit, as in gaining the sentry guns to do the work for you, if you were the one who jammed them.
Your assumptions were incorrect.
Quote:
READ STUFF BEFORE POSTING.
Test stuff before posting.
yes and you your self say so because how again? you tested this your self of course right?
and there is nothing wrong with assuming, once you know how the system works you can apply same rules to other things.
Or you cant wait for me to come with the results my self?
I dont mean no disrespect to nobody but im not going to take anyoneÆs opinion AS A FACT... and nor do i expect you to take my assumptions without a full test as FACT.
it was a discussion and the testing IF there are any will show what really is happening.
And instead of ppl trying to prove or disprove with facts ppl just post stupid pointless replies.
BTW to those who donÆt care DONÆT POST IN THE THREAD, NOBODY FORCED YOU TO READ OR REPLY
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.10.02 08:17:00 -
[58]
Quote:
yes and you your self say so because how again? you tested this your self of course right?
No, I have not. As you are the starter of the discussion, I'm afraid the burdon of providing proof that the sentry system works like you assume it works, falls on you. It is up to you to test how they work before initiating the discussion.
Quote:
and there is nothing wrong with assuming, once you know how the system works you can apply same rules to other things.
Or you cant wait for me to come with the results my self?
Why, yes, no, I can't. Y'see, j0sephine knows it doesn't work like you assumed. If you'd test it yourself, you'd have seen this entire discussion could have been moot  .
Quote:
I dont mean no disrespect to nobody but im not going to take anyone’s opinion AS A FACT... and nor do i expect you to take my assumptions without a full test as FACT.
it was a discussion and the testing IF there are any will show what really is happening.
And instead of ppl trying to prove or disprove with facts ppl just post stupid pointless replies.
BTW to those who don’t care DON’T POST IN THE THREAD, NOBODY FORCED YOU TO READ OR REPLY
You'd have to test it for yourself, Drutort. Otherwise, you will never know for sure. Log onto Chaos, get a BugHunter to jam sentries and test out your hypothesis. That will be the only way you'll know for sure.
(I'm not entirely sure the sentries can be jammed at all.)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Needo
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Posted - 2003.10.02 09:41:00 -
[59]
So, anyone wanna tell what they are actually doing? A guess:
1) 2-3x dampening
2) gets attacked
3) EM-BB warps away
Something like that, or what?
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
___________________________________________ |
Zorael
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Posted - 2003.10.02 10:01:00 -
[60]
The only way to effectively jam sentries is to use 4 multispectral ECM devices, which use approx. 30 cap per second and will drain all your cap in a little more than 1 minute on a blackbird (assuming you stuff all your remaining slots with cap power relays and cap rechargers).
An apoc with a skilled pilot and the right equipment would last significantly more, but I doubt it can run 4 multispecs forever...
So to permanently jam 2 sentries you would have to dedicate at the minimum 2 battleships and several other ships transferring cap to them from time to time.
I can't help but think there are other methods
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Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part |
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