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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.10.02 20:43:00 -
[181]
 Quote:
Quote:
This thread got very old very quickly.
Why don't some of you declare war on SPVD if you're so outraged? 
Because then they'd be like WhiteTroll: Corpless and quitting.
Where is your corp, Whitedwarf? You're l33t Roid-Combat skills couldn't keep yall from bankruptcy?
his ex-corp were one of the first to make the mistake of declaring a war on us 
.
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Kasha
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Posted - 2003.10.02 20:43:00 -
[182]
Quote:
Who launched the torpedo's?
Umm..., oops.
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h4x0
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Posted - 2003.10.02 20:47:00 -
[183]
Edited by: h4x0 on 02/10/2003 20:49:16
OMG, who launched the torpedo's? *Kasha giggles in background, then says It was Mastema!*
OMG, dont shoot torpedo's near the indy, OMFG its a bestower. WTF: I guess it can handle three torpedo's.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Mastema: Milkshakes have icecream in them, you are drinking flavored milk, ya jackass.
Jade Constantine > looks like you blasted the crap out of a load of our ships again
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WhiteDwarf
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Posted - 2003.10.02 20:53:00 -
[184]
"Pirate one warps out, leaving you as agressor (as the other three didnt really shoot at you).
The sentry gun sees you as only agressor and start firing and blow your ship up.
Then the Space Invaders blow up your pod
Damend good thinking, lads, damned good thinking."
Yeah, pretty neat trick, but...
Just don't shoot back!
This is dissappointing, I thought it was something better than that...
Like firing missiles & torps from out of range of the sentries, etc.
I guess I would have never got caught in this scheme, as I don't return fire near gates or stations...
"Trust No One" |
Arkonor
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:09:00 -
[185]
it still should be considered an exploit.....
its abusing sentry gun's something i doubt ccp want people to be doing.
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Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:12:00 -
[186]
Quote:
Discorp, Scorpion, Veruna=Badass, and as far as I am concerned you guys will not be fired upon. (but that is just me m8's), dont know how others feel
Have you ever heard the tale of the duck and the scorpion? (Bear with me here):
Quote:
One day, a duck was swimming down the river when she noticed a scorpion on the bank, staring at the water.
The scorpion called out to the duck "Say, will you give me a ride across the river?"
The duck replied "Oh no, I could never do that, you would sting me and I would surely drown."
To which the scorpion replied "But if I were to do that, I would drown as well. Rest assured, I would not wish to drown, so I will not sting you."
The duck thought about this for a moment. It sounded reasonable and logical, so the duck agreed. The scorpion climbed up onto the duck's back.
When they were about half way across the river, the scorpion stung the duck.
As she began to lose conciousness, the duck asked "Why have you stung me? Now we will both surely drown."
The scorpion replied "Because I am a scorpion. I cannot pretend to be something I am not, I must be true to my nature."
You must be true to your nature.
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:13:00 -
[187]
Quote:
it still should be considered an exploit.....
its abusing sentry gun's something i doubt ccp want people to be doing.
Erm...How is getting shot by the sentry guns abusing them. They're doing their jobs. If they were semi-sentient, they'd prolly be happy about it.
Just because their target refuses to die doesn't mean it's an exploit. 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Arkonor
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:21:00 -
[188]
and im sure the game mechanics are meant to let people sit camping stargates getting blasted by sentry guns ? whats the point in them beeing there if they dont do what they are intended for ? stopping people camping gates in semi secure space and from the sounds of it the guy's beeing agressive dont sit there for long if they warp off to let the sentry gun attack the person trying to defend himself.
its as lame as docking every few seconds to charge shields, SI are a bunch of cowards who cant fight like real men they have to abuse the game mechanics like m0o used to
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Dixie Flatline
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:29:00 -
[189]
Quote:
Quote:
it still should be considered an exploit.....
its abusing sentry gun's something i doubt ccp want people to be doing.
Erm...How is getting shot by the sentry guns abusing them. They're doing their jobs. If they were semi-sentient, they'd prolly be happy about it.
Just because their target refuses to die doesn't mean it's an exploit.
Jash, you are wasting your time talking to people like him.
I hardly can describe his species. I guess he omitted the warning as he jumped the first time in a 0.4 solar system.
He would prolly also moan when he would lose a ship somewhere in Catch, 50 jumps away from the next station being AFK on his way back (people have done this).
He would prolly also moan when someone strikes one of his pawns in chess or buys some nice streets in monopoly.
Some people are no match for others in games and I have seen a lot of people yelling stuff like
- exploiter,
- griefer,
- camper,
- cheater,
- *****,
- lamer
in a lot of different games (FPS, MMORPG) when they lose something and that's just the common stuff I am mentioning here.
Most people can't accept that they have been owned, they are just bad losers.
--
Morkt Drak: "I go afk and upon return find my scorpion having the **** shot out of it by Biomass Cartel.. scorpion blows up but i escape in my pod." |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:30:00 -
[190]
Quote:
and im sure the game mechanics are meant to let people sit camping stargates getting blasted by sentry guns ? whats the point in them beeing there if they dont do what they are intended for ? stopping people camping gates in semi secure space and from the sounds of it the guy's beeing agressive dont sit there for long if they warp off to let the sentry gun attack the person trying to defend himself.
its as lame as docking every few seconds to charge shields, SI are a bunch of cowards who cant fight like real men they have to abuse the game mechanics like m0o used to
Obviously you know very little about what they're doing. You're listening to rumor
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Dixie Flatline
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:31:00 -
[191]
Quote:
and im sure the game mechanics are meant to let people sit camping stargates getting blasted by sentry guns ? whats the point in them beeing there if they dont do what they are intended for ? stopping people camping gates in semi secure space and from the sounds of it the guy's beeing agressive dont sit there for long if they warp off to let the sentry gun attack the person trying to defend himself.
its as lame as docking every few seconds to charge shields, SI are a bunch of cowards who cant fight like real men they have to abuse the game mechanics like m0o used to
And you are just a troll.
*plonk*
Don't feed him guys.
--
Morkt Drak: "I go afk and upon return find my scorpion having the **** shot out of it by Biomass Cartel.. scorpion blows up but i escape in my pod." |
Archain
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:32:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Archain on 02/10/2003 21:32:34
http://www.clanccc.net/Images/Screenshots/Eve%20Online/The04Exp.wmv
Screw it, lol. You know how it's done. it doesn't take away from the fact that it requires tons of teamwork =).
When things change everyone just has to adapt....
Space Invaders Movie Library - [SPVD]
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Arkonor
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Posted - 2003.10.02 21:36:00 -
[193]
okay if ccp dont change how sentry guns work to counter this then i am just a whining troll who has nothing better to do than talk crap on the forum's...
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.10.02 22:09:00 -
[194]
Whitedwarf: You don't have to shoot back to get your stuffing torn out, we *do* still shoot. I guess you could call the other thing a sort of 'backup plan'
Arkanor: You named yourself after a rock! nice.
I still can't believe after all this evidence that you still call this an exploit.
.
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WhiteDwarf
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Posted - 2003.10.02 22:31:00 -
[195]
"Whitedwarf: You don't have to shoot back to get your stuffing torn out, we *do* still shoot. I guess you could call the other thing a sort of 'backup plan'"
Then how come you guys could never get me?
I must have made it though at least 10 or so of your blockades...
Admittedly, that was before you were using this tactic.
However, I would never get caught in that situation, cause I use the map...
"Trust No One" |
Archain
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Posted - 2003.10.02 22:32:00 -
[196]
He sure is smart....
Damn him.
Space Invaders Movie Library - [SPVD]
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.03 05:28:00 -
[197]
Edited by: Drutort on 03/10/2003 05:39:53
I must be missing something...
if its so simple that the other player warps out and the player who attacked is the only agressor...
it still doesnt explain why the sentry guns are not blowing up the ppl who are -5sec
or did i miss some place that they dont fire at -5sec ppl now?
does it have to do with it being .4sec or lower?
BTW if what you say is true... then its still a game flaw... because your agression should be with that individual... AND if they are -5sec or lower sentry guns should care less AFTER the battle...
the only thing sentry guns should care are... firing at -5sec or lower ppl... firing at ppl who attack someone who is not -5sec
if that first agressor leaves the 2nd person involved SHOULD NOT be targeted by the sentry guns... it makes no sense at all for them to be firing at that player...
and it goes back to my thread about the AI being really stupid and having the lack of priority to kill... and rather does like first in first out...
that means if one of the firsts leave then it still keeps on firing on the 2nd first out...
which should not be the case LOL why would the sentry guns be attacking then a player who was well
that is the problem with this game... it has to be if CCP says its exploit its an exploit...
but that doesnt have to be true whY? because exploit simply means giving an advantage to someone that they should not have due to some flaw even stupid AI in this case.
CCP will not say this is exploit, you know why? because they coded the DUMB AI, and it is used for all THE NPC'S!! so then if they said its exploit, using the NPC dumb AI to ones advantage could be said to be exploiting... so CCP would have to fix ALL THE AI on ALL NPC's to be a little smarter and handle different cases.
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.10.03 06:13:00 -
[198]
Archain: Nice vid. 
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.03 06:38:00 -
[199]
well either way SI proved that the theory i had works...
even though it doesnt matter... but it does work as i thought LOL, so if one agressor leaves the other is then targeted and fired up on... that means that 1 ship can jam the sentry guns and fire at a person then that person opens up on the one who started and leaves and sentry's then unjamed open up on that other person LOL
anyway there is no need for any more talk about this... the AI is stupid and CCP needs to find better means then just sentry guns at areas
like the idea of SWAT... but thats another story
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.10.03 06:50:00 -
[200]
Quote:
well either way SI proved that the theory i had works...
even though it doesnt matter... but it does work as i thought LOL, so if one agressor leaves the other is then targeted and fired up on... that means that 1 ship can jam the sentry guns and fire at a person then that person opens up on the one who started and leaves and sentry's then unjamed open up on that other person LOL
Dude, there's no jamming of sentry guns involved AT ALL. You can't jam them.
1) Lead blockade ship fires
2) Sentry guns lock onto lead blockade ship and fire
3) Support ships transfer shields to the lead ship (Not an aggressive act, so they don't get on the sentry guns' kill list)
4) The sentry guns continue firing on the lead ship until it is either destroyed or moves out of thier range
If the lead ship leaves the area and you have committed an aggressive act against someone not on the guns' kill list, then the guns will turn on you. It has nothing to do with jamming at all.
(Personally, I would have expected better AI from a tech3 sentry gun, but I guess 7 thousand years of evolution have failed to provide us with useful computer programmers... )
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.10.03 08:43:00 -
[201]
Well, three days in, and still no warning from GM's/devs.
hey, maybe the game is working like it was designed to...
.
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Trixxy
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Posted - 2003.10.03 09:50:00 -
[202]
Edited by: Trixxy on 03/10/2003 09:51:47
Doesn't look like an exploit to me, mon (and I'm not even a pirate).
It doesn't seem to me as abusing the A.I. or game mechanics.
From a role-play point of view, you can assume the gun can detect hostile acts like jamming and shooting, but it's not beyond the scope of imagination that the transferring of shield could go undetected (shield energy transferred as a tight beam of microwave energy directly to target - impossible to intercept by a stationary object) Therefore the gun has no way of knowing the relationship between the aggressor on it, and the others who happen to be around the place. So when the aggressor leaves or gets out of range, the only thing the gun can do is move to the next aggressor. The gun has no way of knowing the intent of the other ships towards the 'victim'. So if victim starts shooting those other ships first, he is the next valid aggressor.
This plan involves risk, planning and strategy on the parts of the pirates. Some strategy or thought in the battle on the part of the victim is obviously needed to avoid getting fired on by the gun.
Clever.
What I am unclear on:
Pirate ship fires on gun, then when victim is in range, he fires on the victim (other ships remain passive and transfer shield to aggressor). If the victim then returns fire on the pirate, then will the gun STILL turn on the 'victim' after the aggressor warps out or gets out of range?
Or will the gun only turn on the victim (after the gun-aggressor is out of range) if the victim was the one that initiated combat with the pirates?
.
.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
...and remember - No pain, no pain. |
Lianhaun
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Posted - 2003.10.03 10:12:00 -
[203]
I only have to add one more thing, why isn't anybody from SI going shot Discorp? C'mon, he deserves it! Honestly he does, he's only being polite because of me, really.
I demand his corpse if he gets near us. harrr.
And man it toke you lot long to figure out what is going on.
This is not a hijack
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.10.03 10:14:00 -
[204]
Cuz im fluffy and never leave safe space :P
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Beringe
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Posted - 2003.10.03 10:42:00 -
[205]
Aw, I was hoping it was uberarmor.
But shield transfer is very clever too. Tanking the guns - that's the ticket! You've been adding 3 jumps on avarage to my agent missions in lonetrek, cause I always go around the blockade...
-------------------------------------------
"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Lola
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Posted - 2003.10.03 10:45:00 -
[206]
This thread is like WhiteTroll, it just won't go away.
-----------------------------------------
Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.10.03 11:12:00 -
[207]
I didn't comment on this thread because although I am not too fond of pirates, I think SI are some alright people, and I wanted to see all the facts for myself.
This tactic is a good one, now, thanks to all the other hypothesis in these threads they have other ways of bettering it but whatever.
The issue that sentry guns could be smarter and attack anyone aiding their aggressor IS PRESENT, but since they are tech 3, and in lowER sec space, I am not goign to cry if it stays like this.
Now another confusion is why setries do not attack -5 sec people, but I guess this is explained by the fact that guns just plain don't attack people that are not aggressors. Some people that do not have time to be informed can be confused about this, so I think CCP should make a "rules on engagement" option available on bulletin boards, just so people can refer to them.
This whole thing will change with faction security implementation soon to come...
The video was cool, SI, hats off to you for this technique.
To those who were killed:
remember, they are sitting ducks at that gate, and their shields are being used to boost the guy under fire, so if you have a whole bunch of battleships to spare act as follows:
1) Warp in with ****ty ship, place 150km bookmark.
2) Warp in with 15 Armageddons (tachyons maxed for range)
3) use boosters to (silent) target at 120+Kms
4) wait for a poor bastard to get caught by SI.
5) Open fire all at once on the SI members.
Smile :)
-----------------------------------------------
Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Archain
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Posted - 2003.10.03 16:56:00 -
[208]
To be honest I don't think there is any force that could stand up to that, especially when all are working together as a team and focusing fire on 3-4 different ships. An act of teamwork like the one you mentioned would annihilate nearly any opposing group provided they stick around to receive the punishment.
Space Invaders Movie Library - [SPVD]
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.10.03 17:00:00 -
[209]
Quote:
To be honest I don't think there is any force that could stand up to that, especially when all are working together as a team and focusing fire on 3-4 different ships. An act of teamwork like the one you mentioned would annihilate nearly any opposing group provided they stick around to receive the punishment.
See the issue is that most don't understand is that doing this is not that difficult. Just requires commitment and coordination, something that is hard to find in large numbers. Also, this would take advantage of the fact that you KNOW where the pirates are, you KNOW they are busy with other things at that moment and you need to hit em HARD, FAST before they know what hit em.
-----------------------------------------------
Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.03 17:30:00 -
[210]
Quote:
Aw, I was hoping it was uberarmor.
But shield transfer is very clever too. Tanking the guns - that's the ticket! You've been adding 3 jumps on avarage to my agent missions in lonetrek, cause I always go around the blockade...
Well according to TomB it is still possible to make an incredible armor tank. Just not sure it's possible to repair the damage done by a sentry gun as fast as it deals it.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
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