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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
10881
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Posted - 2014.08.06 12:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Reserved for later.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Traiori
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
48
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Posted - 2014.08.06 14:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Does the K162 spawn when you jump through the hole or can probes detect it before then?
Does the life of the wormhole now start when you jump through or, as at present, when you initiate warp to the grid it's on? |
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
16
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Posted - 2014.08.06 14:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
There will be far fewer incoming connections from k-space, as more people will warp the wormhole, look at what space is on the other side, and choose not to jump through.
This will reduce the connectedness of w-space more generally. |
Viscis Breeze
No Vacancies
39
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Posted - 2014.08.06 14:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Traiori wrote:Does the K162 spawn when you jump through the hole or can probes detect it before then?
Does the life of the wormhole now start when you jump through or, as at present, when you initiate warp to the grid it's on?
Currently, when you initiate warp to a signature you spawn the K162 signature on the other side (able to be scanned).
Recruitment: http://bit.ly/1r4G5Pv
Website: http://www.no-vacancies.net/
Channel: No Vacancies
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Traiori
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
51
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Posted - 2014.08.06 14:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Viscis Breeze wrote:Traiori wrote:Does the K162 spawn when you jump through the hole or can probes detect it before then?
Does the life of the wormhole now start when you jump through or, as at present, when you initiate warp to the grid it's on? Currently, when you initiate warp to a signature you spawn the K162 signature on the other side (able to be scanned).
I know that Adhocracy isn't as good as it used to be, but give me some credit. I meant under the proposed system, as giving feedback without this knowledge would be difficult at best :) |
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CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
161
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Posted - 2014.08.06 14:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Traiori wrote:Does the K162 spawn when you jump through the hole or can probes detect it before then?
Does the life of the wormhole now start when you jump through or, as at present, when you initiate warp to the grid it's on? So the only change that has been made is to when the K162 signature is visible or scannable. Wormhole lifetime still begins as soon as someone initiates warp to its grid.
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/ccp_lebowski |
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Kadm
Catfish Gumbo
Try Rerolling
8
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Posted - 2014.08.06 14:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Necharo Rackham wrote:There will be far fewer incoming connections from k-space, as more people will warp the wormhole, look at what space is on the other side, and choose not to jump through.
This will reduce the connectedness of w-space more generally.
This is the only thing I'd worry about. W-space will become much less interconnected with this. |
Traiori
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
51
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Posted - 2014.08.06 14:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Traiori wrote:Does the K162 spawn when you jump through the hole or can probes detect it before then?
Does the life of the wormhole now start when you jump through or, as at present, when you initiate warp to the grid it's on? So the only change that has been made is to when the K162 signature is visible or scannable. Wormhole lifetime still begins as soon as someone initiates warp to its grid.
Then this change is also good. I like this change, it should stay. I think this is a good compromise between allowing us to find enemies and allowing enemies to flee before our fleets. |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
902
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Posted - 2014.08.06 14:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
There are positive and negatives to this, the positive is that one still has control of when the hole opens.
The negative side to the issue is that in low occupancy holes or holes opening from kspace, we may see a mass reduction in the number of K162s
I would suggest that four hours after the signature spawn of the static meaning when it is available in the source system, even if unwarped to it becomes visible as a k999 until jumped, and visible from the both sides and useable. After it is jumped it restores to it's original designation.
Effects:- designation clearly identifies it's status.
No reduction overall in traffic.
No more never opening statics.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Jezza McWaffle
Pandora Sphere
Disavowed.
139
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Posted - 2014.08.06 14:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
We get alot of connections where people warp the hole and spawn it but not jump in to see where it leads to, under the new changes does this mean unless you jump through the hole the WH will NEVER spawn on the other side?
C6 Wormhole blog
http://holelotofwaffle.wordpress.com/ |
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
556
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kadm wrote:Necharo Rackham wrote:There will be far fewer incoming connections from k-space, as more people will warp the wormhole, look at what space is on the other side, and choose not to jump through.
This will reduce the connectedness of w-space more generally. This is the only thing I'd worry about. W-space will become much less interconnected with this.
I have to agree with this.
I get what you are going for. You want to keep the discovery scanner up and you don't want to go back to the old system.
This is just patchwork trying to hobble that system together so its viable in wormhole space.
.... it is not.
1) Set it so that when a new wormhole appears, it spawns on both sides.
2) Don't show wormholes on the discovery scanner at all (make people probe out the system to find them).
You get more setup, more interaction, more varied gameplay. The old system worked for a reason.
You are not going to get people to give up on it.
Yaay!!!! |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
688
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Necharo Rackham wrote:There will be far fewer incoming connections from k-space, as more people will warp the wormhole, look at what space is on the other side, and choose not to jump through.
This will reduce the connectedness of w-space more generally.
A valid point - I guess adding some kind of timer that eventually spawns it anyhow would make this work in both directions - reducing the time someone has to respond to a new k162 if its being used as a means for hunting targets but without impacting on the connectivity aspect if its not immediately used as a tool for pvp.
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Kadm
Catfish Gumbo
Try Rerolling
10
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Kadm wrote:Necharo Rackham wrote:There will be far fewer incoming connections from k-space, as more people will warp the wormhole, look at what space is on the other side, and choose not to jump through.
This will reduce the connectedness of w-space more generally. This is the only thing I'd worry about. W-space will become much less interconnected with this. I have to agree with this. I get what you are going for. You want to keep the discovery scanner up and you don't want to go back to the old system. This is just patchwork trying to hobble that system together so its viable in wormhole space. .... it is not. 1) Set it so that when a new wormhole appears, it spawns on both sides. 2) Don't show wormholes on the discovery scanner at all (make people probe out the system to find them). You get more setup, more interaction, more varied gameplay. The old system worked for a reason. You are not going to get people to give up on it.
I like this idea a lot. I actually prefer it just be implemented as signatures not show up on the discovery scanner, only anomalies. Otherwise, it will be too easy to differentiate and determine what signatures are wormholes. |
Snakes-On-A-Plane
14
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
I like the idea.
However, I do see some other effects rising from this.
You can now ensure 100% that the static has not been activated by picketing the hole with a cloaky. Much easier than watching scans continually.
You will also be able to defend the hole against a connection with bubbles and decloak cans, etc.. - another interesting effect of the change. |
Budrick3
Serene Vendetta
Brawls Deep
35
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
This idea should not be considered to have any merit.
Most null sec bears will warp to the Wormhole, see that it is going to c5 or etc, and say "I'll wait for another better connection."
This limits wormhole engagements in null sec and limits killing them in their safe rating haven. There are countless wormhole corps that hunt quite frequently in null sec and get carrier kills and etc.
This only limits new edens content on an already stressed game.
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ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
271
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think you should look at timers/ not applying this to K space wormholes. The vast majority of k spaces we find are K162s, and those will stop spawning since K-space residents rarely care about the WH, they see if its a shortcut, maybe goes where they want but rarely ever jump in.
Id hazard a guess that 90% of null--> WH space connections never open after this change, probably even higher.
The Wormhole Kid |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1678
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
+1
A very good change indeed.
+1 |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
No Holes Barred
4710
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
I agree with the above posters, though I think 4 hours is far, far too long. I would love to see the K162 spawn after 30 minutes or so.
CSM 7 Secretary
CSM 6 Alternate Delegate
@two_step_eve on Twitter
My Blog
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Blobskillz McBlub
Manson Family
Advent of Fate
13
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
just for clarification, would this mean that if I never jump through my lets say low sec static in my C3, actually would be absolutely safe in WH until a new signature pops up, because there would be no connections to my WH? |
Newt BlackCompany
Serene Vendetta
Brawls Deep
8
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
This will have the negative effect that people will warp to the wh's, if they see it's a 'dangerous unknown' or something else they don't want linked to their home hole, they just won't jump. Then the K162 link on the other side will never get opened. Also, unoccupied wh's will never have the k162's open, decreasing wh connectivity.
This can be fixed by putting in a 10 minute timer, after which the wh opens automatically.
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Budrick3
Serene Vendetta
Brawls Deep
35
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
ExookiZ wrote:I think you should look at timers/ not applying this to K space wormholes. The vast majority of k spaces we find are K162s, and those will stop spawning since K-space residents rarely care about the WH, they see if its a shortcut, maybe goes where they want but rarely ever jump in.
Id hazard a guess that 90% of null--> WH space connections never open after this change, probably even higher.
Wow....I didnt even think of how much of a pain in the arse it is going to be finding high sec and low sec connections.
Absolutely the worst idea. |
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
277
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
Maybe im just nostalgic still, but I still miss jumping a WH and hunting people when they don't even know I am there. This change helps if I dont jump right through the WH when I find it, but if I do it doesnt change anything at all.
Id still love to make them have to scan for new Whs, at least for a little bit. Theyll still see me jump in with their scanners immediately.
The Wormhole Kid |
AssassinationsdoneWrong
The Nexus 7's
235
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
I personally think this is not the positive change you think it's going to be.
What you need to understand with the current system is that, once warp is a initiated the warper and Corp/bros are forced to deal with the consequences of that connection and what is on the other side of it.
This actually gives you the emergent game play you keep touting as being needed.
So if an equally or better force with an on the ball scanner is over there the content gets hairy (do we collapse, fight, what do we do?) but no matter what else that connect is now up and somebody is going to have to make the call which will usually end up with exploding ships.
Now look at your proposal. I can scan a new random down, tell what it is, look at my fleet, see who is answering pings, make tea and then decide "Nah, I don't fancy a C5 connect ramification today". Bookmark it, mark the bookmark not to jump to and not have to deal with it at all.
Take this to it's extreme and a farmer can use/abuse it to the nTH level. They warp to all new randoms, mark them not to be jumped at all until that number = 7 minus number of statics (maximum number of possible WH connects in any one system) and voila, a fully 100% guaranteed safe environment controlled 100% by the holding corp with no chance whatsoever of anyone ever being able to connect without them wanting them to.
It's just an opinion and sorry for the WOT but it needed careful explaining and I tried to keep it respectful which I find difficult at the best of times. Shoot down away!
The Nexus 7's
What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity |
Orange Aideron
Blue-Fire
7
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
+1 to K162's to eventually connecting/showing up on the other side. otherwise, w-space is going to get very quiet. rip. |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
909
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
The timer does need to be in the order of four hours, unless the intention is to deprive residents of any opportunity for keeping their static closed for any useable time.
This change seemed to carefully avoid removing that choice, while balancing things, I do not believe that things like a ten minute timer would achieve that goal in any way.
So should we not suggest resolutions for the possible absence of K162's after this change, rather than try to get the whole choice argument reopened and the improvements lost?
So recommendation:- if not jumped a static hole after four hours becomes a k999 and spawns visible on both sides.
After jumping it returns to it's original designation on the static side and a K162 on the other.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Reckoning Star Alliance
71
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
I also believe there needs to be a timer. I think you underestimate the number of times people will never instantiate the connection especially on the k-space -> w-space side. Heck, you can even make good use of your info pane description of a newly instantiated wormhole and have that description persist up until the timer expires. People would then have a tiny bit of intel about whether or not they instantiated the wormhole and you also have the benefit of the K162s spawning, increasing connectivity between systems. |
LT Alter
Ouroboros Research and Development
118
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Posted - 2014.08.06 16:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Would it be possible for it to be made scannable when a ship lands on grid with the wormhole rather than on first jump. The time difference would be very small, but the difference that the people in the parent hole can't just warp to the wormhole and start it's life cycle without ever making it scannable on the other side. I feel that makes things a little bit too safe for wormhole residents in general, even though I am on myself. |
Traiori
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
68
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Posted - 2014.08.06 16:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
I just realised that this means that N432's from nullsec to C5s will never open up in ratting space. How am I supposed to find plankton?
There needs to be a maximum timer for this: maybe 30-60 minutes at most? |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
62
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Posted - 2014.08.06 16:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
+1 for a timer, might be a lot more work to code. Something between 30 minutes to 2 hours sounds good.
Will also add to the paranoiafactor. "K162 just spawned but I saw noone on our d-scan nor on the other side." |
Longinius Spear
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
284
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Posted - 2014.08.06 16:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
This is a great balance for both farmers and hunters.
+1 approve!
Read more of my ramblings on my blog www.invadingyourhole.blogspot.com |
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