EVE Search - Hacking Mini Game = Biggest Pile Of Crap Ever

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Missions & Complexes

Hacking Mini Game = Biggest Pile Of Crap Ever

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)
Wes Korhal Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.08.16 19:55:00 - [1] - Quote ... just needed to get that out of my system.
Paranoid Loyd 1461	Posted - 2014.08.16 20:05:00 - [2] - Quote Pretty simple. Don't like it? Don't do it. At least they got rid of the spew. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
Hakaari Inkuran State War Academy Caldari State 189	Posted - 2014.08.16 20:06:00 - [3] - Quote Wes Korhal wrote: ... just needed to get that out of my system. I do agree with you, it doesn't meld with EVE at all
Antillie Sa'Kan Forging Industries Silent Infinity 616	Posted - 2014.08.16 21:31:00 - [4] - Quote I kind of like it. Its a nice blend of character skill and actual skill. Just saying.
Rayzilla Zaraki Tandokuno 256	Posted - 2014.08.17 00:37:00 - [5] - Quote The old way, pre-Odyssey, left me feeling kind of empty. Lock target, activate module, wait, collect loot. The mini game, while not perfect, at least is a challenge. I like it now the the spew is gone. Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
Samwise Everquest Because ISK 53	Posted - 2014.08.17 00:47:00 - [6] - Quote I don't mind the mini-game. I didn't even mind the loot spew. I really don't mind a lot of things tho.
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 28779	Posted - 2014.08.17 04:40:00 - [7] - Quote Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Wes Korhal wrote: Hacking Mini Game = Biggest Pile Of Crap Ever... just needed to get that out of my system. I do agree with you, it doesn't meld with EVE at all I agree 100% with both of you. This game definitely didn't need another click fest mechanic added to it. DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan \| California Eve Players \| (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions
Samwise Everquest Because ISK 53	Posted - 2014.08.17 18:13:00 - [8] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Wes Korhal wrote: Hacking Mini Game = Biggest Pile Of Crap Ever... just needed to get that out of my system. I do agree with you, it doesn't meld with EVE at all I agree 100% with both of you. This game definitely didn't need another click fest mechanic added to it. DMC Games usually require user input (clicking things.) Compared to most games, EvE has very little button mashing as it is so I am not sure what you are really complaining about. Sounds like you'd rather the game just play for you.
Hakaari Inkuran State War Academy Caldari State 190	Posted - 2014.08.17 18:42:00 - [9] - Quote Samwise Everquest wrote: DeMichael Crimson wrote: Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Wes Korhal wrote: Hacking Mini Game = Biggest Pile Of Crap Ever... just needed to get that out of my system. I do agree with you, it doesn't meld with EVE at all I agree 100% with both of you. This game definitely didn't need another click fest mechanic added to it. DMC Games usually require user input (clicking things.) Compared to most games, EvE has very little button mashing as it is so I am not sure what you are really complaining about. Sounds like you'd rather the game just play for you. You kind of said exactly why the mini game doesn't belong in EVE.
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 28779	Posted - 2014.08.17 22:20:00 - [10] - Quote Samwise Everquest wrote: DeMichael Crimson wrote: This game definitely didn't need another click fest mechanic added to it. DMC Games usually require user input (clicking things.) Compared to most games, EvE has very little button mashing as it is so I am not sure what you are really complaining about. Sounds like you'd rather the game just play for you. This game involves a lot of mouse clicking in all aspects. Planetary Interaction was a major click fest when it was first implemented and even after a couple of reiterations / rework, it's still a click fest. The Mini-Hacking game is another major click fest which includes a lot more clicking than what's actually needed. I don't mind clicking a few things to accomplish something in this game but I definitely don't wanna be clicking +25 or more 'Nodes' just to hack one can at a site, especially when there's usually more than 1 can located at these sites.. This game is portrayed as being set in a futuristic time with space travel, computers, etc. The Mini-Hacking Game takes up way too much real estate on the screen. It should be resizable and the hack itself be automatic. The hacking screen itself should be something to monitor the progress of the hack. I should be able to start a hack with 1 click which would automatically continue going through Nodes until the hack completes it's programming and finds the Core. If the hack encounters something, a prompt message should appear on screen asking me to select an action depending on what's encountered. After clicking ignore, use or attack and receiving the consequences for that action, the hack would then automatically continue going through Nodes searching for the Core. Now if that sounds like I want the game to play itself for me, then yeah, that's what I want. DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan \| California Eve Players \| (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions

Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1105	Posted - 2014.08.17 23:32:00 - [11] - Quote Clicking once should be enough to clear all the empty nodes up to the firewalls. A bit like the old windows minesweeper game. Must admit though, it does have a bit of an 'EVE Candy Crush' spin to it. The real problem with the minigame is at no point is player skill helpful or are meaningful choices made. The end result is purely a factor of " Char hacking-skills/equipment. + chance "
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 7683	Posted - 2014.08.18 04:19:00 - [12] - Quote Wes Korhal wrote: ... just needed to get that out of my system. I feel ya, I hate it to, spew or no spew. Not too long ago I fitted up a scanning Tengu and took of into Great Wildlands. Found a few sites (including a Ghost site) and did them, made a little bit of isk for sure, but many than many game is annoying. The thing takes up the whole screen, the whole time Im wondering if i'm about to get killed. And the game play is like being a rat in a maze, yet it's somehow even less fun than that lol. I ignore profession sites now. The old system sucked but replacing 'sucks' with 'annoying' was a bad move.
Samuel Wess Stain Police Happy Cartel 61	Posted - 2014.08.18 04:53:00 - [13] - Quote Should introduce minigame to mining too, that is boring i guess. Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"
Mr Mac Dark Goliath 0	Posted - 2014.08.18 10:18:00 - [14] - Quote Starcraft 2 has mini game and I never play this minigame till now. I'll never play. You can ignore easy.
Judith Baker School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.08.18 11:41:00 - [15] - Quote And the rewards don't include faction bpc's anymore: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=365515
Sinnish Saken Thrall Nation Brave Collective 14	Posted - 2014.08.18 18:29:00 - [16] - Quote Disagree. I personally feel like I'm playing the game when I work through the mini-game. There is a secondary reason for the mini-game IMO. It increases the time you spend at a site, meaning more actual skill = more isk, and also increases the amount of time you aren't looking at your d-scan..leading to content. Without the mini game I don't think anyone would get caught in a site unless someone is already in it waiting for you, wouldn't wish that camping on anyone. That's a reduction in content from both the hunter and the prey w/o the minigame. And for the rewards I believe they're still worth it.
Kern Hotha 62	Posted - 2014.08.19 05:33:00 - [17] - Quote I like the concept of active hacking, and the layout and design of the interface is quite nice. The thing that turns me off is that there is no player skill involved in the process. The player clicks randomly and deals with whatever the node reveals, without any decisions needed or even possible. The framework is there; it just needs real content added to make it gameplay instead of random clicking. I think it will require a change of CCP personnel assigned to this section of the game, though. We distinguish the excellent man from the common man by saying that the former is the one who makes great demands upon himself, and the latter who makes no demands on himself. Jose Ortega y Gasset (1883 - 1955)
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 62	Posted - 2014.08.19 08:19:00 - [18] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: I should be able to start a hack with 1 click which would automatically continue going through Nodes until the hack completes it's programming and finds the Core. If the hack encounters something, a prompt message should appear on screen asking me to select an action depending on what's encountered. After clicking ignore, use or attack and receiving the consequences for that action, the hack would then automatically continue going through Nodes searching for the Core. Autohacking would required rebuild grid into some kind of maze. What if we navigate with arrow keys instead of clicking? Game is a bit random. Sometimes i hack ruins without single firewall crack, sometimes i have some many defence nodes on grid that wihout VC 200 it's imposible to crack. I don't think it's a bad thing. We shoudn't get all loot just because we have T2 hacking module and maxed skills. So many times i blown a can worth +40 mil. Bad luck. I would rather improve hacking instead of returning to just sitting and cycles the module. I always wonder why they didn't use hexagonal grid. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Asinar The Hotdog 4	Posted - 2014.08.19 09:05:00 - [19] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: Samwise Everquest wrote: DeMichael Crimson wrote: This game definitely didn't need another click fest mechanic added to it. DMC Games usually require user input (clicking things.) Compared to most games, EvE has very little button mashing as it is so I am not sure what you are really complaining about. Sounds like you'd rather the game just play for you. This game involves a lot of mouse clicking in all aspects. Planetary Interaction was a major click fest when it was first implemented and even after a couple of reiterations / rework, it's still a click fest. The Mini-Hacking game is another major click fest which includes a lot more clicking than what's actually needed. I don't mind clicking a few things to accomplish something in this game but I definitely don't wanna be clicking +25 or more 'Nodes' just to hack one can at a site, especially when there's usually more than 1 can located at these sites.. This game is portrayed as being set in a futuristic time with space travel, computers, etc. The Mini-Hacking Game takes up way too much real estate on the screen. It should be resizable and the hack itself be automatic. The hacking screen itself should be something to monitor the progress of the hack. I should be able to start a hack with 1 click which would automatically continue going through Nodes until the hack completes it's programming and finds the Core. If the hack encounters something, a prompt message should appear on screen asking me to select an action depending on what's encountered. After clicking ignore, use or attack and receiving the consequences for that action, the hack would then automatically continue going through Nodes searching for the Core. Now if that sounds like I want the game to play itself for me, then yeah, that's what I want. DMC This sounds 10 times better than what is in the game. And to the ones saying Eve has no clicking. How many clicks does it take to scan down a site? How many to bookmark/warp there? How many clicks to kill whats there and clicking cans and clicking this and that? Just doing 1 site is probably hundreds of clicks. Right-click menus need to go. Eve is like a powerpoint presentation (click to select style, click to select bulletpoints, right-click here and there etc) coupled with spreadsheets. Why can't I group modules, any modules, so when I press 1 button they ALL activate? Instead I have to press F1->CTRL+ALT+DEL+ F12!
Sargeant Hellian Fault Line Industries Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 0	Posted - 2014.08.19 11:01:00 - [20] - Quote yup - total BS the state of hacking. HEY let's make a whole game where your performance is based on a sliding scale of 5 skill levels.. then let's make the mini game ave NOTHING TO DO with those skills other than getting 10 health on your virus. HEY I have another great idea : lets make empty cans (after all they don't have to warp in 4 friends to catch cans anymore so let's F___ em over some! HEY! What about cans that are ALMOST empty? Let's just put one carbon in there! PS - CCP you should be ******* embarassed about what you did with this mini game.

Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 63	Posted - 2014.08.19 11:42:00 - [21] - Quote Sargeant Hellian wrote: HEY! What about cans that are ALMOST empty? Let's just put one carbon in there! Explorers joke. What did you get for Xmas? Carbon I hacked a can in hisec once that had more valuable carbon than salvage loot inside Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Wes Korhal Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.08.19 16:36:00 - [22] - Quote Well ... I think a lot of valid points in here. I specifcally would cosign on the "how about getting with the times and having some semi-automatic process that fits the scenario?" Don't get me wrong, I do see the points about gameplay and creating edible pvp content busy with hacking. But yeah, to me it seems like my "skill" as a player is of no use in this minigame, it just takes away time, much like others have already mentioned. Also, as an off and on player I do see that good changes have been made, like the radial menu. Finally you can just hold a mouse button and warp, thank you (dunno how long that has been around, was in hibernation past few moths? years?). But this hacking thing, I'm sorry, was not a brilliant move, whichever way you put it. I'd rather type text commands on a bash console, that's more fun than that.
Sinnish Saken Thrall Nation Brave Collective 15	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:49:00 - [23] - Quote Wes Korhal wrote: to me it seems like my "skill" as a player is of no use in this minigame, it just takes away time, much like others have already mentioned. There's plenty of strategy that goes into the mini-game when you have mediocre skills. Just like everything else in Eve once you get to near perfect skills the challenge becomes negligible. Sargeant Hellian wrote: HEY let's make a whole game where your performance is based on a sliding scale of 5 skill levels.. then let's make the mini game ave NOTHING TO DO with those skills other than getting 10 health on your virus. Pilot skill has just as much, if not more, of an effect as SP does. Why should the mini-game be any different? And if we're playing the "I have more SP than you so I win game" I've missed the memo.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 63	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:56:00 - [24] - Quote Wes Korhal wrote: ... But this hacking thing, I'm sorry, was not a brilliant move, whichever way you put it. I'd rather type text commands on a bash console, that's more fun than that. On first few sites minigame is fine. Problem starts when exploration is your main profession. I hacked 6 sites in one system once. I must logged off after that. My mouse button failed to cooperate. Hacking game is weakest part of exploration now. It's ok if you do it casually, but when i go to null for my few days expeditions i'm sick of it at the end. Basically we have short time between releasess now. I know there are more serious issiues to deal with such as sov system, but how much resources would it take to rebuild hacking? I mean whole idea is fine but less clicking more thinking would be nice. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 64	Posted - 2014.08.20 11:39:00 - [25] - Quote We have a problem with the number of clicks in minigame. Why not reduce them? 1) How about reducing attack on defence subsystem or core to one button push? for example if we have VS 30 and defence node has VC 90 it would require 3 "attacks" to crack it. Why not one? Then sit and watch how our module cycles on node. Succes or not depends if we have enough VC ofc 2) number of action we have to take on grid depends on grid architecture. Single defensive subsystem blocking all node in it vicinity. That force us (on harder cores) to go around them, it takes time and "clicks". Grid is based on triangles, why not make it hex based. Not grid like but some kind of a maze with "corridors". Defensive subsystem would block single "corridor" not some part of grid. 3) instead of clicking navigate with keyboard. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Rezan Tepet Partial Safety 25	Posted - 2014.08.20 15:29:00 - [26] - Quote Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Samwise Everquest wrote: DeMichael Crimson wrote: Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Wes Korhal wrote: Hacking Mini Game = Biggest Pile Of Crap Ever... just needed to get that out of my system. I do agree with you, it doesn't meld with EVE at all I agree 100% with both of you. This game definitely didn't need another click fest mechanic added to it. DMC Games usually require user input (clicking things.) Compared to most games, EvE has very little button mashing as it is so I am not sure what you are really complaining about. Sounds like you'd rather the game just play for you. You kind of said exactly why the mini game doesn't belong in EVE. Yeah, we should just point our Data/Relic Analyzers at nodes for 6 minutes (-1 minute per skill level in Hacking/Arch) and let it go. That would be real fun. [/sarcasm] oaramos: \|oh-WAR-uh-mohs\| n. GÇö-áTerm given to early Caldarian wormhole explorers. From Rataani language; literally, "Wave-jumper."-á adj. GÇö-á[see: "moss" "mossy"] slangGÇö crazy, insane
Ikonia Royal Amarr Expeditions 70	Posted - 2014.08.22 12:18:00 - [27] - Quote Wes Korhal wrote: ... just needed to get that out of my system. By far too easy and costs too few time. It would be better if it would be much less in the cans and the hacking minigame would take longer and cost more time. Atm it is too easy to have success with exploration. And yes, i like the way the loot spew worked because that market has not been that flooded with exploration items. Burner missions will now anyway cut deep into the market of plex and faction items and this market will most likely be flooded by starting next week. So i hope exploration highsec will decrease in numbers of those exploring soon enough :)
Ssabat Thraxx Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project 337	Posted - 2014.08.23 00:44:00 - [28] - Quote Next they'll start making us click to log in, click to undock, click to move our ships around..... it's madness, I say,, madness!! I'm sick of it too. Hell, Im throwing away my mouse. BRING BACK DOS! BRING BACK DOS! Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
Athnunak Vuld Republic University Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.08.23 16:01:00 - [29] - Quote Guide to getting rid of the clickfest: 1. Uninstall EVE and other modern games 2. Install a MUD 3. ??? 4. Wizard Hat
Princess Bride Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium 636	Posted - 2014.08.23 20:44:00 - [30] - Quote Hacking is the best it has ever been. My reaction to it has mostly been a shrug. I am surprised by how venomous some of the replies are. I'd rather CCP spent time reworking the POS system or a number of other things before spending more time on exploration. http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/

Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 156	Posted - 2014.08.24 18:01:00 - [31] - Quote As a frequent explorer, I think the mini-game is fine. It requires an investment in skills and knowledge on how to attack the nodes (at least in low/null). It also requires a balance of attention between hacking the can and watching for someone trying to catch you in the sig. Ghost sites require that you complete the mini-game with speed. If the mini-game was removed it would just mean more competition.
Oxide Ammar 152	Posted - 2014.08.25 08:18:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Developers know how sucky exploring right now and they never thought about it before implementing it ingame, but as courtesy from CCP developer to another they won't trash the whole system they implemented and tagged Odessy as expansion name for it. 1- reworking the whole thing means the paid hours they spent for that aspect are a waste ( loss). 2- who ever invented this mini game and loot spew at the end is CCP developer(s), unless they confess they screwed it up no other CCP developer will point it out on behalf of the creator of this mess is going to say we screwed it up ( at the end they are colleagues in same Company) May be you will think what the hell this have to do with failed aspect in the game, but it's your pixel game that you are playing in your free time...it's their career and work they do as living. You can apply this to every game out there with broken ***** stuff in it even the game as whole is good in concept, best example to this is BF4, if anyone play this game since launch you will know how much BF4 was total screwed up game with massive amount of bugs, EA deployed truck load of patches over and over to fix it, at certain point they announced they won't be deploying any fixes and they will focusing on future projects coming out ! that means they reached a break even point beyond will be taken into account of loss and they are spending working hours fixing it more than they spent at creating the game from scratch. Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Tolkaz Khamsi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2014.08.25 14:05:00 - [33] - Quote Princess Bride wrote: I'd rather CCP spent time reworking the POS system or a number of other things before spending more time on exploration. I've been waiting for the long-promised POS fixes for...years, it seems like. But I get the feeling that the POS codebase is such a scary mess that no CCP dev wants to touch it for fear of screwing it up worse. It needs a total re-think, starting with the idea of making a POS more like a mini-outpost that players can live in. (I.e., let me actually dock up in my hangar, allow me to set up clone vats and repair facilities, allow me to repackage items, etc.) That's what I'd like to see. In reality? I think we're stuck with the crappy POS stuff for a long time to come.
Stone-Cold Gunther Sabre Apollo Technologies Inc 3	Posted - 2014.08.26 13:36:00 - [34] - Quote Just my opinion but although the mini-game itself could be a lot better it serves a good function in that it keeps the explorer's attention from being 100% dscan+local during the most vulnerable during exploration. Makes it more exciting and adds a little player skill to the proceedings (not loads, but a little). I would like to see CCP spending time on more variety in the exploration sites. I know they added ghost sites (+1 from me) but they could do loads more. E.g. 1. A site that drops a map to another hidden site (with awesome loot) within 1-2 jumps. You have 15 mins to find it... 2. Sites dropping puzzle fragments that must be combined/can be sold. Unlocks interesting sites, BPC's whatever. 3. A variety of mini-games to keep things more interesting, or unlocking different nodes in the mini game releases different loot. BPC nodes, Data core nodes, [FAVOURITE DATA LOOT INSERTED HERE] nodes. I don't know. CCP could get creative.
Lenell Night Raven Task Force Night Raven Alliance 11	Posted - 2014.08.26 14:49:00 - [35] - Quote My issue with the scanning minigame is it's only half of a "game". It has tactics, but no strategy. What I mean is the concept of balancing your health and attack when choosing which blocking node to attack, or when to use your bonus things is just fine. That's a game that forces you to think about the short term, "Should I use this wrench now, or save it. Should I attack this node first, or that other one?" It lacks strategy in you don't know where the goal is, the core. At the start of the game you don't know where you're going besides a vague knowledge of it's usually in the farthest place from your start. You can't plan strategically as in "I need to head over towards the core, so I should save my powerups for an unlucky blocking node." If you uncover too many bad nodes while flailing around? Tough, you lose. Bad luck and a whole pile of nodes that heal other nodes get uncovered? Tough, you lose. It's not failing due to making a mistake or a bad move, it's failing because of bad luck. That's never fun. What I would suggest is something like this. When you attack and defeat a blocking node, have it display a direction to the system core. Or if that's too clear cut and makes things too easy, make it display two or three arrows to possible system core locations. Just something to give you a hint towards the goal, allowing you to plan your route as you make progress. Right now I absolutely hate it, because when I fail at the minigame I never feel like "Oh I made a mistake, I should learn from it and do better next time", I feel "Oh I got screwed over by random placement of the nodes. I sure hope I don't get screwed over next time."
Stone-Cold Gunther Sabre Apollo Technologies Inc 3	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:54:00 - [36] - Quote Lenell wrote: ... because when I fail at the minigame I never feel like "Oh I made a mistake, I should learn from it and do better next time", I feel "Oh I got screwed over by random placement of the nodes. I sure hope I don't get screwed over next time." I agree! There are thing you can do to increase your chances like clear the outside edge first and aim for furthest away from the start point as the core is often somewhere there but basically you are left to the whims of the generating algorithm and all you can basically do is hope its an easy one.

CCP Bayesian 1154	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:55:00 - [37] - Quote I've actually been prototyping some additions to Hacking as part of a small side project in my "20% Time". The first is a distance indicator that tells you how far away the last node uncovered is from "good stuff". This helps with second by second decision making by letting you follow trends. This also helps determine which Defense Software to attack first. On top of which it generally needs less clicks to complete a hack. I'm experimenting with definitions of "good stuff". The second is to help with having more strategic decisions whilst actually hacking. I added multiple cores which unlock explicit bits of the loot in the container. This gives the hacker the ability to balance more of the risk vs. reward themselves as they go rather than it being an all or nothing thing. Both of these changes give scope for more interesting Defense Software and Utilities. I'd like to alter the Restoration Node substantially as well to make it less overpowered and generally more interesting. I want to make clear that there is no real ETA for when these changes might hit TQ but I wanted you to know that the state of Hacking is definitely something I and others care about and something someone is actually working on. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Max Kolonko High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance 441	Posted - 2014.08.26 18:37:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: I've actually been prototyping some additions to Hacking as part of a small side project in my "20% Time". The first is a distance indicator that tells you how far away the last node uncovered is from "good stuff". This helps with second by second decision making by letting you follow trends. This also helps determine which Defense Software to attack first. On top of which it generally needs less clicks to complete a hack. I'm experimenting with definitions of "good stuff". The second is to help with having more strategic decisions whilst actually hacking. I added multiple cores which unlock explicit bits of the loot in the container. This gives the hacker the ability to balance more of the risk vs. reward themselves as they go rather than it being an all or nothing thing. Both of these changes give scope for more interesting Defense Software and Utilities. I'd like to alter the Restoration Node substantially as well to make it less overpowered and generally more interesting. I want to make clear that there is no real ETA for when these changes might hit TQ but I wanted you to know that the state of Hacking is definitely something I and others care about and something someone is actually working on. good to know, thanks for telling us :) Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 67	Posted - 2014.08.26 18:38:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: I want to make clear that there is no real ETA for when these changes might hit TQ but I wanted you to know that the state of Hacking is definitely something I and others care about and something someone is actually working on. Thank you. It's good to know something is going on. Even if it's a protoype. Hopefully it's sooner than later with new 6 weeks gap releases. Btw are you responsible for non combat exploration as a whole or it's just a antoher assignment in road to make cluster better place? Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.

CCP Bayesian 1155	Posted - 2014.08.26 18:49:00 - [40] - Quote I'm on Team Space Glitter and our mission right now is to basically improve gameplay content related stuff. We're committed to doing a lot of tools work to speed up all the designers as well as fixing and creating new content. Currently we're making NPC Authoring easier whilst our design focused people (FoxFour and Affinity) are coming up with some new stuff and plans for fixing some existing content that badly needs work. Hacking sort of fits into that but I'm working on it because I had a big hand in designing it and it's never made it to the quality the team who worked on it liked particularly. The current implementation is functional but shallow and misses some key features of the original design as well as the ideas we had for improving things as we worked on it. I'm working on it as part of some self-determined time we get to work on these sorts of projects that otherwise fall further down our priority list. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter


Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 278	Posted - 2014.08.26 18:56:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: I've actually been prototyping some additions to Hacking as part of a small side project in my "20% Time". The first is a distance indicator that tells you how far away the last node uncovered is from "good stuff". This helps with second by second decision making by letting you follow trends. This also helps determine which Defense Software to attack first. On top of which it generally needs less clicks to complete a hack. I'm experimenting with definitions of "good stuff". The second is to help with having more strategic decisions whilst actually hacking. I added multiple cores which unlock explicit bits of the loot in the container. This gives the hacker the ability to balance more of the risk vs. reward themselves as they go rather than it being an all or nothing thing. Both of these changes give scope for more interesting Defense Software and Utilities. I'd like to alter the Restoration Node substantially as well to make it less overpowered and generally more interesting. I want to make clear that there is no real ETA for when these changes might hit TQ but I wanted you to know that the state of Hacking is definitely something I and others care about and something someone is actually working on. Honestly, the hacking game is not redeemable. Simply add an autocomplete button. That way players can skip over the mini-game wack-a-mole if they want to. I would even accept an autocomplete button that was gimped in AI over a "real" person solution. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 278	Posted - 2014.08.26 18:58:00 - [42] - Quote Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: I kind of like it. Its a nice blend of character skill and actual skill. Just saying. You sir are completely out of your mind. There is no actual skill involved. It is simply a button click fest. Actually, I take that back. There is some player skill involved. Pressing that button faster and faster is a kinda a player skill. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 67	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:01:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: The current implementation is functional but shallow and misses some key features of the original design as well as the ideas we had for improving things as we worked on it. I'm working on it as part of some self-determined time we get to work on these sorts of projects that otherwise fall further down our priority list. Can you be more specific on this 'key features of original design"? Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 278	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:04:00 - [44] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Wes Korhal wrote: ... But this hacking thing, I'm sorry, was not a brilliant move, whichever way you put it. I'd rather type text commands on a bash console, that's more fun than that. On first few sites minigame is fine. Problem starts when exploration is your main profession. I hacked 6 sites in one system once. I must logged off after that. My mouse button failed to cooperate. Hacking game is weakest part of exploration now. It's ok if you do it casually, but when i go to null for my few days expeditions i'm sick of it at the end. Basically we have short time between releasess now. I know there are more serious issiues to deal with such as sov system, but how much resources would it take to rebuild hacking? I mean whole idea is fine but less clicking more thinking would be nice. I used to do hacking/exploration as a main source of income. I gave it up because the minigame is tedious and skill-less. But even if the minigame was entertaining, the drops are largely worthless, unless you get some rare tower bpc. So now all i do is shoot other explores who wander into my lowsec home. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.

CCP Bayesian 1155	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:21:00 - [45] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: CCP Bayesian wrote: The current implementation is functional but shallow and misses some key features of the original design as well as the ideas we had for improving things as we worked on it. I'm working on it as part of some self-determined time we get to work on these sorts of projects that otherwise fall further down our priority list. Can you be more specific on this 'key features of original design"? Sure, it's also worthwhile reading through my older posts from this time last year for more context. Originally we planned for Utilities to be something you could harvest from Hacking attempts, sell on the market and then fit to your Hacking module. This fitting decision and harvesting is pretty important for adding strategy to the original design but not sufficient I think. There is also a greater number of Utilities and Defense Software that do more interesting things that have been designed out but were cut from implementation to polish other areas and help keep balancing straightforward. In particular more 'things' would help out the easier systems with more variety as well as posing different problems. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter


CCP Bayesian 1155	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:30:00 - [46] - Quote Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: I kind of like it. Its a nice blend of character skill and actual skill. Just saying. You sir are completely out of your mind. There is no actual skill involved. It is simply a button click fest. Actually, I take that back. There is some player skill involved. Pressing that button faster and faster is a kinda a player skill. We actually have an AI we use for testing which does a lot more than clicking quickly and doesn't cheat. I'm not going to say there is a huge skill ceiling but there certainly is one particularly in the harder systems. I've not yet seen a guide online that hits all the points we use. Granted they get the majority of really meaningful things correct and Hacking in hostile space is a bit different to a computer crunching. I actually quite like the idea of remaking the AI to be used in EVE, dumbing it down a bit and slowing it up so people can choose to fit an Auto-Hacking module. You'd be less successful overall but it'd be nice for people who don't want to Hack themselves. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 67	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:36:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: Sure, it's also worthwhile reading through my older posts from this time last year for more context. Originally we planned for Utilities to be something you could harvest from Hacking attempts, sell on the market and then fit to your Hacking module. This fitting decision and harvesting is pretty important for adding strategy to the original design but not sufficient I think. There is also a greater number of Utilities and Defense Software that do more interesting things that have been designed out but were cut from implementation to polish other areas and help keep balancing straightforward. In particular more 'things' would help out the easier systems with more variety as well as posing different problems. Indeed some of this was mentioned before. Are you planing to implement some of those in the future or just scraped it and starting from zero? Harvested tools and improving hacking modules are promising. I was digging in hacking minigames lately, EvE has original concept of it but if it required less clicking with more strategy it would be great. Luck factor is also needed but let's not make it prime for every hack attempt. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 229	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:37:00 - [48] - Quote You are wrong. I think it is a perfectly decent activity. Shame it doesn't see more application in eve tbh. Hasikan Miallok wrote: + chance So a bit like chess right?

CCP Bayesian 1155	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:59:00 - [49] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: CCP Bayesian wrote: Sure, it's also worthwhile reading through my older posts from this time last year for more context. Originally we planned for Utilities to be something you could harvest from Hacking attempts, sell on the market and then fit to your Hacking module. This fitting decision and harvesting is pretty important for adding strategy to the original design but not sufficient I think. There is also a greater number of Utilities and Defense Software that do more interesting things that have been designed out but were cut from implementation to polish other areas and help keep balancing straightforward. In particular more 'things' would help out the easier systems with more variety as well as posing different problems. Indeed some of this was mentioned before. Are you planing to implement some of those in the future or just scraped it and starting from zero? Harvested tools and improving hacking modules are promising. I was digging in hacking minigames lately, EvE has original concept of it but if it required less clicking with more strategy it would be great. Luck factor is also needed but let's not make it prime for every hack attempt. I'm basically tackling things in the order of what makes the most sense to improve Hacking the most with the least effort. To that end I'm mostly restricting myself to things that wouldn't take much additional effort on behalf of our team to bring forward. Bigger projects will have to wait until we can schedule it into our main development time. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Renegade Heart Smack My Ship Up 164	Posted - 2014.08.26 20:28:00 - [50] - Quote I love the new system. It provides a distraction for those running them in dangerous areas while you prepare to blow them up. Awesome job CCP!

Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 67	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:21:00 - [51] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: I actually quite like the idea of remaking the AI to be used in EVE, dumbing it down a bit and slowing it up so people can choose to fit an Auto-Hacking module. You'd be less successful overall but it'd be nice for people who don't want to Hack themselves. It would be great for those who don't like hacking. Having an oppportuiny is always better than forcing to do certain activity. CCP Bayesian wrote: I also think there is a lot of room for giving high skill level Hackers something else to do. What might it be? Any projects? CCP Bayesian wrote: I'm basically tackling things in the order of what makes the most sense to improve Hacking the most with the least effort. To that end I'm mostly restricting myself to things that wouldn't take much additional effort on behalf of our team to bring forward. Some kind of tiering? General path with adding new defense systems and utlities? Easier to add new elements without rework whole process. Do you consider tweaking loot tables for data sites? If you going to spread loot among few data cores in the future it will happen eventually i presume, but for now, datacores, depcryptors takes too much volume. It would be good to hear some statement: yes, no, i have no influence on that. Communication is better than blind guessing. We have a situation with possibilty to explore without being bonded to base of operation, but have not enough cargo to make use of it. We have manufacturing releasess on plate and loot from data sites is used in some of the process. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Sargeant Hellian Fault Line Industries Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 3	Posted - 2014.08.26 22:12:00 - [52] - Quote I would also like to add a big middle finger to the hacking dev for including empty cans, or cans with one carbon in them in nulsec. You deserve to be unemployed. Also, big middle finger to those hacks where 5+ gimp nodes (minus to virus damage) are discovered. Really? Did you guys even TRY data/relic sites? You know, like... using the in game equipment, not dev modules that are instant win? You do realize that any idiot can make 2x more money shooting rats? Do you enjoy just screwing players over? ie - Datacore research npcs, complete stealth removal of faction BPCs?
Sargeant Hellian Fault Line Industries Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 3	Posted - 2014.08.26 22:50:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: I kind of like it. Its a nice blend of character skill and actual skill. Just saying. You sir are completely out of your mind. There is no actual skill involved. It is simply a button click fest. Actually, I take that back. There is some player skill involved. Pressing that button faster and faster is a kinda a player skill. We actually have an AI we use for testing which does a lot more than clicking quickly and doesn't cheat. I'm not going to say there is a huge skill ceiling but there certainly is one particularly in the harder systems. I've not yet seen a guide online that hits all the points we use. Granted they get the majority of really meaningful things correct and Hacking in hostile space is a bit different to a computer crunching. I actually quite like the idea of remaking the AI to be used in EVE, dumbing it down a bit and slowing it up so people can choose to fit an Auto-Hacking module. You'd be less successful overall but it'd be nice for people who don't want to Hack themselves. I also think there is a lot of room for giving high skill level Hackers something else to do. so you just admitted that you don't QA hack and data sites. You use an AI to test it. That's not the same as having someone who works in QA actually DO what we have to do. no wonder it's in such a crap state at the moment. Test manager - "Hey, program on my desktop... how is data and hacking? Fun?" Program - " Beep. Hacking and data WORKING AS INTENDED." Test manager - "Great! I am going to play plants vs zombies." Good job on admitting you don't test.
TheButcherPete Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension 481	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:40:00 - [54] - Quote Rayzilla Zaraki wrote: The old way, pre-Odyssey, left me feeling kind of empty. Lock target, activate module, wait 15minutes, collect loot. The mini game, while not perfect, at least is a challenge. I like it now the the spew is gone. FTFY THE KING OF EVE RADIO If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?
Bienator II madmen of the skies 2803	Posted - 2014.08.27 01:11:00 - [55] - Quote the largest disappointment for me was that relic sites and data sites are identical. The only difference is the decoration and the module you have to use. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 28974	Posted - 2014.08.27 01:54:00 - [56] - Quote I already voiced my opinion about the Mini Hacking Game along with some of the changes I'd like to see implemented earlier in this thread. Other than what I already posted in this thread I gotta admit seeing CCP Bayesian posting here is quite a surprise. I like seeing Dev's active in the forums even though I may not believe* or agree with what they say. Having said that, I gave each posted reply from CCP Bayesian in this thread a 'Like'. DMC *(Team Avatar work on prototype for WIS / FPS game play content in exploration sites) Faction Standing Repair Plan \| California Eve Players \| (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 68	Posted - 2014.08.27 06:40:00 - [57] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: I like seeing Dev's active in the forums even though I may not believe* or agree with what they say. Always better than silence. Good to know someone reading our posts. It's shame they don't have PvE oriented devs, like Fozzie and Rise, The Duo of Nerf, in balancing ship section. Good PvE would be solid base to improve EvE, most of players are PvEers. Most of them start with PvE and because PvE is weak, leave. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Luwc Brodozers Inc. 198	Posted - 2014.08.27 06:59:00 - [58] - Quote I like it. you don't like it ? don't do it. http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
Stone-Cold Gunther Sabre Apollo Technologies Inc 3	Posted - 2014.08.27 07:00:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: I've actually been prototyping some additions to Hacking as part of a small side project in my "20% Time". The first is a distance indicator that tells you how far away the last node uncovered is from "good stuff". This helps with second by second decision making by letting you follow trends. This also helps determine which Defense Software to attack first. On top of which it generally needs less clicks to complete a hack. I'm experimenting with definitions of "good stuff". The second is to help with having more strategic decisions whilst actually hacking. I added multiple cores which unlock explicit bits of the loot in the container. This gives the hacker the ability to balance more of the risk vs. reward themselves as they go rather than it being an all or nothing thing. Both of these changes give scope for more interesting Defense Software and Utilities. I'd like to alter the Restoration Node substantially as well to make it less overpowered and generally more interesting. I want to make clear that there is no real ETA for when these changes might hit TQ but I wanted you to know that the state of Hacking is definitely something I and others care about and something someone is actually working on. I think this is good news. While explorers want ISK too, I think exploration in Eve should primarily be about the fun of discovering something. There are plenty of other activities that get give you a better ISK/hr already. Making the mini-game a game of player skill will help, but also improve the variety of interesting things to find, maybe interesting locations only an explorer can access through hacking another site (key found in hacking site activates a disabled gate at a location found in another hacking site, or something). I'm sure there are tons of things that could be added. Hope your improvements hit TQ asap :-)
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 68	Posted - 2014.08.27 07:32:00 - [60] - Quote Stone-Cold Gunther Sabre wrote: While explorers want ISK too, I think exploration in Eve should primarily be about the fun of discovering something. I don't mind lucrative loot from exploration. This is money driven activity. It's not "stable" income such as one hand difficulty L4's. Unless your scanner stop telling you what you found, and sites would be fully generated not premade there won't be any discovering in it. I don't understand ppl complaing about carbon in cans. There shouldn't be situation that sites would grant us predictable profits. If you have problems with that fit cargo scanner. In fact i would like more useless items in cans and cherry pick "good" ones, space junk instead empty cans, salvaging and looting good stuff "firefly" style. Not mechanical "loot all and next!". Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.


CCP Bayesian 1167	Posted - 2014.08.27 09:28:00 - [61] - Quote Sargeant Hellian, no, I said we use AI for testing, I didn't say that was the only testing we do and it isn't. It's just a massive help for volume in a quantitative sense. We still do a bunch of manual qualitative testing. Jeremiah Saken, no real plans for expanding it elsewhere but many ideas floated. Most of these sorts of things require more art, audio and basically more people working on it for a feature that needs it. This is a small project I'm working on reasonably slowly in the scheme of things but the codebase is good so additions are pretty easy. DeMichael Crimson, thanks for the suggestions. I think there is a video of an early version of the Avatar prototype that was shown at a Russian player meet floating around if you want to have a little more evidence to help that belief. A loot revamp primarily looking at the imbalance between Data and Relic sites is planned in the not too distant future by the other guys on Space Glitter. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Ynef Tesseract Industries 9	Posted - 2014.08.27 09:49:00 - [62] - Quote I love the hacking mini game as it is right now. I don't need bots to click for me thank you.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 68	Posted - 2014.08.27 10:32:00 - [63] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: DeMichael Crimson, thanks for the suggestions. I think there is a video of an early version of the Avatar prototype that was shown at a Russian player meet floating around if you want to have a little more evidence to help that belief. I found something like this: Avatar gameplay I thought it was urban legend with this whole style of playing Ah bar fights with avatars, would be something CCP Bayesian wrote: A loot revamp primarily looking at the imbalance between Data and Relic sites is planned in the not too distant future by the other guys on Space Glitter. I think relics are in good state. Cans have random values from trash to 40mil+. You never know what you expect from hardest cans, yet whole sites are still worth something despite low ruins drops. Will data rebalance have something to do with parts for player build gates, or there won't be ties to exploration? Will rebalance affect current loot (like volume) or changing items completely? Lastly, how do you distribute tasks beetwen ppl in teams? You are working on hacking, someone else on loot tables etc. Wouldn't be good to assign ppl to specific works and keep them there when in need? Like, you've done hacking, project closed, now someone else want to do some tweaks, for example Fozzie, without knowledge about hacking, and messes with your vision and aproach to part of exploration by puting space invaders in it. Or it's just whole Space Glitter working and brainstorming on task? Sometimes it feels like some devs being punished and being assigned to ungrateful works. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective 1267	Posted - 2014.08.27 10:40:00 - [64] - Quote I'd love the minigame to give more room to player knowledge, reasoning, or general use of brain. Right now its just a bit of risk mitigation with a huuuuge part of random. When you click a node, you do it in a pure, random fascion. Its not even worth a cent on a smartphone game, even less in EVE. I know CCP probably doesn't have the ressources to make something amazing that would remplace the hacking miningame. But giving us some way to hack that isn't just "find the exit while hoping not to die" would be cool. I feel like there is something to dig on the side of unused bonuses that you could keep in your cargo, and multiple "loot nodes" that'd increase the reward for completing the can, instead of one big fat boss. Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. Beware the french guy!
Warde Guildencrantz TunDraGon 1047	Posted - 2014.08.27 12:24:00 - [65] - Quote Altrue wrote: I'd love the minigame to give more room to player knowledge, reasoning, or general use of brain. Right now its just a bit of risk mitigation with a huuuuge part of random. When you click a node, you do it in a pure, random fascion. Its not even worth a cent on a smartphone game, even less in EVE. I know CCP probably doesn't have the ressources to make something amazing that would remplace the hacking miningame. But giving us some way to hack that isn't just "find the exit while hoping not to die" would be cool. I feel like there is something to dig on the side of unused bonuses that you could keep in your cargo, and multiple "loot nodes" that'd increase the reward for completing the can, instead of one big fat boss. It's fair for the "Hazards" to be randomly generated (as it would be boring to have identical instances every time you hack something of a certain type), but the mechanism for the user to avoid "hazards" should be refined in order to allow for a user's skill to increase the ability to mitigate hacking issues. I sort of favor the idea of a more real-time approach. Say the faster a hacker breaks into the system, the less protection is generated. It should be less guess-work for a hacker to determine the optimal path and more skill-based. Perhaps there could be separate areas the hacker could hack into, each requiring different approaches and yielding different types of loot (for example, trash compactor control system -> hack into that = salvage loot, or ship R&D database -> blueprints/modules loot)
Noriko Mai 1445	Posted - 2014.08.27 13:03:00 - [66] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: I found something like this: Avatar gameplay I thought it was urban legend with this whole style of playing Ah bar fights with avatars, would be something This one is a bit better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajnxq65D220
Destoya Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 309	Posted - 2014.08.27 14:32:00 - [67] - Quote I really dont have an issue with the hacking mini-game, it's much better than the old twiddle your thumbs while watching your modules pulse way. Sure, sometimes you get RNG'ed and have to deal with a ton of healing/half damage nodes but that's how luck works. The chance of failure, as small as it is with a max skilled covops and the skills at V, makes succeeding feel more meaningful too. Believe me, it's even more boring when you have 100% chance at success every time. Auto-complete will just lower your income even more if you are a half-decent exploration pilot, because whether you agree or not there is some modicum of skill in the hacking minigame and moving to a system where the computer does all the work for you just means even more loot volume to saturate the market. Rewarding intelligent gameplay and high skills is always a plus in my book. The "number of nodes until completion" feature that was talked about earlier would be nice though, on some of the harder ones you can start to feel quite lost sometimes.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 68	Posted - 2014.08.27 16:11:00 - [68] - Quote Noriko Mai wrote: This one is a bit better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajnxq65D220 This has ubelievable potential. Ruins on planets, huge wrecks in space, even existing "cans" (500m long relic ships). All to explore. You can even use this model as FPS like in Prophecy trailer and fight for gates, stations etc. Hell even build your own "bases" on planets or dockadble POSes, there was a hangar! I know it something that propably will never hit TQ but this would be huge. Forget player build gates. This is future. It would be like opening scene to "The Guardian of the Galaxy" Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective 1267	Posted - 2014.08.27 16:18:00 - [69] - Quote Warde Guildencrantz wrote: I sort of favor the idea of a more real-time approach. Say the faster a hacker breaks into the system, the less protection is generated. It should be less guess-work for a hacker to determine the optimal path and more skill-based. Racing is not really compatible with informed decision making. What I like about the "loot nodes" idea, is that it allows for a more granular hack victory. In a sense, it also reduces the chances to completely fail a hack, which is a good thing for begginer explorer's morale. Right now the hack is binary : You fail, or you succeed. If the loot was to be split between loot nodes (and the maximum loot obtainable increased accordingly), it would greatly encourage the use of rigs, higher skills, and the like, because you could find that extra loot node that the other explorers wont, because you had that extra health, before dying. And, as a begginer explorer, you can expect to get some loot, because technically as you as you complete at least one loot node, you "win" the hack, instead of none. Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. Beware the french guy!
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 281	Posted - 2014.08.27 16:22:00 - [70] - Quote Destoya wrote: I really dont have an issue with the hacking mini-game, it's much better than the old twiddle your thumbs while watching your modules pulse way. Sure, sometimes you get RNG'ed and have to deal with a ton of healing/half damage nodes but that's how luck works. The chance of failure, as small as it is with a max skilled covops and the skills at V, makes succeeding feel more meaningful too. Believe me, it's even more boring when you have 100% chance at success every time. Auto-complete will just lower your income even more if you are a half-decent exploration pilot, because whether you agree or not there is some modicum of skill in the hacking minigame and moving to a system where the computer does all the work for you just means even more loot volume to saturate the market. Rewarding intelligent gameplay and high skills is always a plus in my book. The "number of nodes until completion" feature that was talked about earlier would be nice though, on some of the harder ones you can start to feel quite lost sometimes. The mini-game as it stands does not reward player skill. It is a time sink and a tedious one at that. Prior to the change, the challenge in exploration at least in lowsec and null was dealing with the other players who may be hunting you while you explore. While you were waiting for the hacking to complete you were looking around, hitting dscan, etc... The mini-game takes away from the old dynamic for the sole purpose of forcing you to repeatedly click a button. Sure you are still be hunted, but now instead of focusing on the greater environment you are stuck pushing a button over and over again. Having an autocomplete button would allow folk to return their focus on where it belongs - player interaction, not some tedious button click whack a mole. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.

Anthar Thebess 674	Posted - 2014.08.28 07:23:00 - [71] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: I've actually been prototyping some additions to Hacking as part of a small side project in my "20% Time". The first is a distance indicator that tells you how far away the last node uncovered is from "good stuff". This helps with second by second decision making by letting you follow trends. This also helps determine which Defense Software to attack first. On top of which it generally needs less clicks to complete a hack. I'm experimenting with definitions of "good stuff". The second is to help with having more strategic decisions whilst actually hacking. I added multiple cores which unlock explicit bits of the loot in the container. This gives the hacker the ability to balance more of the risk vs. reward themselves as they go rather than it being an all or nothing thing. Both of these changes give scope for more interesting Defense Software and Utilities. I'd like to alter the Restoration Node substantially as well to make it less overpowered and generally more interesting. I want to make clear that there is no real ETA for when these changes might hit TQ but I wanted you to know that the state of Hacking is definitely something I and others care about and something someone is actually working on. Can we get some new stuff ? That will ruin some people - FULL STAB - fits ? This is nonsense. What i propose : - move scanning upgrades to low slots. - create codebraker and analyzer upgrades that will boost attack and defence - and also put them to low. - create script injectors , also low slots , that will allow you to inject some beneficial stuff while hacking a site Just make people want to remove 1 or 2 stabs for this stuff. You can also add to each stab -5 to attack power Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 72	Posted - 2014.08.28 08:38:00 - [72] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: Can we get some new stuff ? That will ruin some people - FULL STAB - fits ? This is nonsense. There's only one type of exploration frigate with ability to fit 4 stabs. There are plenty of wrecks in low/null that was 3 stabs fitted. Just fit more scrams on your SB, easy prey. In T2 covert frigs only paper mache separate you from cold space. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
pipvac Sacred Templars DARKNESS. 7	Posted - 2014.08.28 12:06:00 - [73] - Quote I like the mini-game. Its certainly a step in the right direction from the original concept of activate module and wait. I do see it as a starting point rather than an end game, and am encouraged by the feedback from CCP in this thread. The existing method forces the player to concentrate on accessing the container, whilst remaining aware of their surroundings, which is a skill in itself. Some will find this easier than others, and that's fine. The optimal way of successfully opening a container is also a skill. People need to remember that a players ability to manage logic problems (no matter how simple they may appear to you) will vary considerably. I also believe it represents an interesting way for new players to explore new content, and make rewards accessible to them if they are willing to fly into low/null sec. Its logistically easy to manage, requires an element of learning (challenge) to understand, as well as eve learning, and the rewards scale nicely depending on the risk you are prepared to take. And proportionately so high sec versus null sec. A nice touch will be to see more complex problem solving be rewarded with the chance of better loot. For example, auto completion is possible, and you get a basic level of loot drop. Current (or similar) technique offers same or slightly less than current drop. A more advanced problem solved sees the chance of a higher value loot drop or faction drop...or perhaps escalation of some nature. Again, focused on a combination of eve skill and player skill being utilised.
Warde Guildencrantz TunDraGon 1048	Posted - 2014.08.28 12:33:00 - [74] - Quote Altrue wrote: Warde Guildencrantz wrote: I sort of favor the idea of a more real-time approach. Say the faster a hacker breaks into the system, the less protection is generated. It should be less guess-work for a hacker to determine the optimal path and more skill-based. Racing is not really compatible with informed decision making. What I was getting at was that if you are skilled at hacking efficiently (IE, quickly and without mistakes), less resistance would be present. If you elect to take your time, it does not get exponentially more difficult, it just has the full range of protection as usual. I realize hacking quickly in the current iteration of this hacking game wouldn't be that useful of an addition. Which is why I suggested design that requires more skill than it does now, such that hacking quickly would be skill based rather than "click the closest node ASAP" based. I can't really come up with anything that would incorporate more skill. I apologize for that but I am just brianstorming random design aspects.
Derp Durrr Team Evil 257	Posted - 2014.08.28 12:54:00 - [75] - Quote So far this all sounds like luxury problems to me. been jumping around for 2 hrs straight and havent found a single thing to hack. Founder of the soon-to-be Legendary Tournament series -=DESTRUCTION DERPY=- Are you up for the challenge? Join our ingame channel Destruction Derpy today!
Anthar Thebess 676	Posted - 2014.08.28 13:10:00 - [76] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Anthar Thebess wrote: Can we get some new stuff ? That will ruin some people - FULL STAB - fits ? This is nonsense. There's only one type of exploration frigate with ability to fit 4 stabs. There are plenty of wrecks in low/null that was 3 stabs fitted. Just fit more scrams on your SB, easy prey. In T2 covert frigs only paper mache separate you from cold space. I don't hunt those people - simply i don't like the mechanic that promotes using stabs. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 72	Posted - 2014.08.28 14:07:00 - [77] - Quote Derp Durrr wrote: So far this all sounds like luxury problems to me. been jumping around for 2 hrs straight and havent found a single thing to hack. Get out of hisec. If you gonna try lowsec get out of caldari space. Anthar Thebess wrote: I don't hunt those people - simply i don't like the mechanic that promotes using stabs. They are using them and still get killed. It's not gank proof module. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
litle grasshopper Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes 8	Posted - 2014.08.29 14:25:00 - [78] - Quote I do relic and data sites in 0.0, now that the spew is gone these are actually fun to do there are 3 components to them: toon skills equipment lvl tactics I have the skills for t2 hacking and analyzing mods and the skills to fly a t2 scan frig, this means i have a pretty high strength and damage, it allows me to be a little less tactical and just brute force my way through them but even then I often have to strategically decide what I attack . ppl say its just a click fest, in 0.0 thatGÇÖs not been my experience, just clicking often results in you attacking too many firewalls or viruses, its common for me to be down to the point where I have enough strength to attack a couple more virus/firewalls but there might be 3-4 of them left now I have to decide which ones are blocking out the most options, also the white cache's that can be bonus or hindrance I have to decide when and if I choose to open those. please donGÇÖt change the mini game, Maybe because I do these sites in alliance held space I get to take a little time over it and enjoy it, I can see if you were a hostile or neutral you may get frustrated as you want to get in an out quickly.
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 28991	Posted - 2014.08.30 13:16:00 - [79] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: The second is to help with having more strategic decisions whilst actually hacking. I added multiple cores which unlock explicit bits of the loot in the container. This gives the hacker the ability to balance more of the risk vs. reward themselves as they go rather than it being an all or nothing thing. I've been thinking about this for quite a while now. First let me state I would much rather do the Mini-Hacking game once per site, not once per Container. I like the idea of having multiple Cores available in the Mini-Hacking game but having them unlock explicit bits of loot within the Container? For some reason that doesn't bode well with me. How about having those multiple Cores in the Mini-Hacking game represent each Container at the site. If there's 3 Containers at the site then the Mini-Hacking game would have 3 Cores hidden in it. If there's 4 Containers, then the Mini-Hacking game would have 4 Cores, etc. A successful Hack done to one of the Cores within the Mini-Hacking game would then unlock one of the Containers at the site. Each Core would progressively get tougher to Hack. If 2 out of 3 Cores were successfully Hacked, then 2 of the 3 Containers at the site would be unlocked. The only question the player needs to ask themselves is which 2 of the 3 Containers should be opened? I don't like the game mechanic of being able to view contents of Containers with a Cargo Scanner module. That makes it too easy for players to cherry pick through the loot, allowing them to pass up 'Bad' loot and only get 'Good' loot. I think each Container should be Scan-Proof and players take their chances with the RNG dice roll. Anyway, I'm sure you get the idea, just some food for thought. DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan \| California Eve Players \| (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions
Tvashnar Crendraven The Scope Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2014.08.30 20:21:00 - [80] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: We actually have an AI we use for testing which does a lot more than clicking quickly and doesn't cheat. I'm not going to say there is a huge skill ceiling but there certainly is one particularly in the harder systems. I've not yet seen a guide online that hits all the points we use. Granted they get the majority of really meaningful things correct and Hacking in hostile space is a bit different to a computer crunching. I actually quite like the idea of remaking the AI to be used in EVE, dumbing it down a bit and slowing it up so people can choose to fit an Auto-Hacking module. You'd be less successful overall but it'd be nice for people who don't want to Hack themselves. I also think there is a lot of room for giving high skill level Hackers something else to do. In case you hadn't noticed, an automated module (an "AI") is what we had before the current "hacking" click-fest. Whether I sit for three minutes while an automatic can opener works it's rand() magic or take three minutes of clicking to accomplish the same result, the only real difference is the wear my the mouse button. Just because you can use an "AI" to solve these puzzles, does not indicate that any real skill or intelligence is necessary to solve the problem; a random walk is sufficient. It may take a little longer, but time != intelligence.

Thatt Guy Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 111	Posted - 2014.08.30 20:42:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: 20% time Use 1% to remove the hacking minigame. Use 19% to sit back and drink beer/alcohol, cause you earned it by removing the minigame. Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll.
Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2177	Posted - 2014.08.31 06:12:00 - [82] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: I should be able to start a hack with 1 click which would automatically continue going through Nodes until the hack completes it's programming and finds the Core. If the hack encounters something, a prompt message should appear on screen asking me to select an action depending on what's encountered. After clicking ignore, use or attack and receiving the consequences for that action, the hack would then automatically continue going through Nodes searching for the Core. Now if that sounds like I want the game to play itself for me, then yeah, that's what I want. This would be so much better. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 77	Posted - 2014.08.31 10:05:00 - [83] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: I don't like the game mechanic of being able to view contents of Containers with a Cargo Scanner module. That makes it too easy for players to cherry pick through the loot, allowing them to pass up 'Bad' loot and only get 'Good' loot. I think each Container should be Scan-Proof and players take their chances with the RNG dice roll. The easiest way to lessen click fest would be to reduce amount of cans at the sites. 3 to 5 cans, removing scannability would have sense then (with balanced loot tables ofc). Current state of data sites is actually encourage to have cargo scanner. I'm hacking 2/6 cans at datas. DeMichael Crimson wrote: How about having those multiple Cores in the Mini-Hacking game represent each Container at the site. If there's 3 Containers at the site then the Mini-Hacking game would have 3 Cores hidden in it. If there's 4 Containers, then the Mini-Hacking game would have 4 Cores, etc. I was thinking about the same solution, there's only few flaws. Hacking would take longer, explorers would be more exposed to hunters. Also failing at hacking would be more severe than on one can. We need some golden mean. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Arsine Mayhem Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 204	Posted - 2014.08.31 19:24:00 - [84] - Quote If it was a game at all you mean? It's just mindless clicking, what 20-30 times? I won't scan sites, or even do the minmatar epic arc again because of it.
Lord Echon Adventurers 6	Posted - 2014.08.31 19:38:00 - [85] - Quote I like the Hacking mini game. It is a lot more fun than simply waiting for the analyzer to succeed. The loot spew mechanic was awful, though, and I am glad it is gone. Of course, Hacking can be improved and I like some of the suggestions in this thread.
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 28996	Posted - 2014.08.31 21:18:00 - [86] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: DeMichael Crimson wrote: I don't like the game mechanic of being able to view contents of Containers with a Cargo Scanner module. That makes it too easy for players to cherry pick through the loot, allowing them to pass up 'Bad' loot and only get 'Good' loot. I think each Container should be Scan-Proof and players take their chances with the RNG dice roll. The easiest way to lessen click fest would be to reduce amount of cans at the sites. 3 to 5 cans, removing scannability would have sense then (with balanced loot tables ofc). Current state of data sites is actually encourage to have cargo scanner. I'm hacking 2/6 cans at datas. If the Containers were scan-proof then you wouldn't be able to cherry pick through the cans and only take the best loot. That seems more of a cheat to me. You're basically cutting out the risk factor as well as the RNG mechanic. Not to mention that leaves empty cans and cans filled with bad loot for the next explorer who finds the site. I see nothing wrong with getting some bad loot with good loot as long as it's equally distributed within the site. That basically makes it interesting, a pleasant surprise when you get good loot and a mild disappointment when you get bad loot. In my opinion the whole point of exploration is not knowing what to expect. There's way too much cherry picking blitz action happening now due to exploration mechanics being reduced to cater to the 'Instant Gratification' crowd. Jeremiah Saken wrote: DeMichael Crimson wrote: How about having those multiple Cores in the Mini-Hacking game represent each Container at the site. If there's 3 Containers at the site then the Mini-Hacking game would have 3 Cores hidden in it. If there's 4 Containers, then the Mini-Hacking game would have 4 Cores, etc. I was thinking about the same solution, there's only few flaws. Hacking would take longer, explorers would be more exposed to hunters. Also failing at hacking would be more severe than on one can. We need some golden mean. How would it take longer? You're working 1 Mini-Hacking Game per site instead of working multiple Mini-Hacking Games. As for being exposed to hunters, you're already exposed due to being at the site. To help minimize that exposure the Mini-Hacking Game could be re-worked to operate similar to what I suggested earlier in this thread : DeMichael Crimson wrote: The Mini-Hacking Game takes up way too much real estate on the screen. It should be resizable and the hack itself be automatic. The hacking screen itself should be something to monitor the progress of the hack. I should be able to start a hack with 1 click which would automatically continue going through Nodes until the hack completes it's programming and finds the Core. If the hack encounters something, a prompt message should appear on screen asking me to select an action depending on what's encountered. After clicking ignore, use or attack and receiving the consequences for that action, the hack would then automatically continue going through Nodes searching for the Core. I'd like to add that Player Intelligence would come into play when deciding which course of action to take within the Mini-Hacking Game. Now about failing the Hack. The Hack fails if you run out of Virus Coherence hit points before finding any Cores at all. If that happens you get a second chance to Hack the site. If you fail the second chance then you're locked out of that site til after downtime. Skill up and get better equipment so that next time you can hopefully complete the Mini-Hacking Game. The site itself would remain active. If you find and successfully hack some of the Cores and run out of Virus Coherence hit points before completing the Mini-Hacking Game, you only get to access the amount of cans equal to the amount of hacked Cores.. If you successfully find and hack all the Cores contained within the Mini-Hacking Game, then you get to access all the cans. Basically if you only find and successfully hack 1 Core within a 4 Core Mini-Hacking Game, then you can only access 1 of the 4 cans at the site. Which container do you access is up to you. Since the cans are scan-proof the contents remain a mystery until the can is opened. Hopefully the RNG Gods are kind and bless you with good loot. If not then skill up and get better equipment so that next time you can successfully hack more than 1 Core allowing access to more cans at the site, thus increasing your chances of getting good loot. If 1 or more Cores within the Mini-Hacking Game are successfully hacked, the site despawns when the player leaves the site. Anyway, that's my thoughts on the subject. DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan \| California Eve Players \| (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 78	Posted - 2014.09.01 07:39:00 - [87] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: If the Containers were scan-proof then you wouldn't be able to cherry pick through the cans and only take the best loot. That seems more of a cheat to me. You're basically cutting out the risk factor as well as the RNG mechanic. Not to mention that leaves empty cans and cans filled with bad loot for the next explorer who finds the site. I see nothing wrong with getting some bad loot with good loot as long as it's equally distributed within the site. That basically makes it interesting, a pleasant surprise when you get good loot and a mild disappointment when you get bad loot. In my opinion the whole point of exploration is not knowing what to expect. There's way too much cherry picking blitz action happening now due to exploration mechanics being reduced to cater to the 'Instant Gratification' crowd. Something like: -no "labels" on scanner, only relic or data site without names, we have scanner ID's, -no premade sites, random cans localisation, some of sites placed on planets and moon orbits (landscapes are there), -no cargo scanner opportuninty, -why only datas and relics? why not some pirates "poses", hubs, space hulks, battlefields, warp gates, raided colonies etc. Even with only one can to hack it would be something, cosmos is full of crap to discover, EvE gate collapsing caused cataslysm, right? something like this for a start DeMichael Crimson wrote: How would it take longer? You're working 1 Mini-Hacking Game per site instead of working multiple Mini-Hacking Games. Let's say you have 7 cans, one can is hacked in about 20 sec/average. Time when we use hacking module is opportunity window to catch by hunters, decloaked. Now with only one hackable device you would have to increase hacking time in order to counterbalance it. Let's say 2 min? It would be too long. There are two types of hunters: campers and jumpers. Campers are obvious, jumpers prescan sites, jumping beetwen systems and warping to sites when smells blood. 2 min for SB is eternity. More time spend on hacking single can, more possibility to catch by hunters, especially in lowsec. I like the idea with one hackacble device on site, i was thinking about it when i hacked my first 7 can site, but it must be polished from explorers and PvPers perspective. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.

CCP Bayesian 1181	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:42:00 - [88] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Lastly, how do you distribute tasks beetwen ppl in teams? You are working on hacking, someone else on loot tables etc. Wouldn't be good to assign ppl to specific works and keep them there when in need? Like, you've done hacking, project closed, now someone else want to do some tweaks, for example Fozzie, without knowledge about hacking, and messes with your vision and aproach to part of exploration by puting space invaders in it. Or it's just whole Space Glitter working and brainstorming on task? Sometimes it feels like some devs being punished and being assigned to ungrateful works. Usually we work quite collaboratively, with each discipline area taking the lead for their own work. I'm a bit odd as although I'm a Software Engineer by title I've also throughout my career at CCP and other game studios done a lot of design work. For example a lot of the 'exploring ships as an avatar' prototype came from myself (and the rest of the team working on it). It's interesting because we made it before survival sims became popular and it shared a lot in common with them. I've also talked extensively about our prototyping at Fanfest and you can find the talk on the CCP channel. The 'bad' old way with six month releases often meant we got reassigned to something new at the end of a release with no time to work on it further. With the current new awesome model there is a lot more freedom for the people making changes to the game to control their own work. We still don't get to work on anything but are much less micro-managed as long as we have a good case for what we're doing. Space Glitter primarily exists to beef up our content creating capabilities. For example right now we're making it considerably easier for Game Designers to create new NPCs without needing a lot of specialist knowledge. As part of that we're also visiting old content and systems that could do more than they are. Currently we're looking at Escalating Path missions and adding in some more dynamic content to the game using the underlying systems that are the basis of Incursions. We have 20% time which is an idea that Google created to drive innovation. It means we can elect to spend 1/5th of our time working on projects we want to. In my case that's making Hacking better. We still need to follow all the same process that gets a feature out of the door in a release but we get to explicitly pick exactly what we work on. I hope that clears up whats going on a bit behind-the-scenes. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter


CCP Bayesian 1181	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:43:00 - [89] - Quote Also to add that I really appreciate the feedback both positive and negative and the generally constructive or humorous manner it's been given in. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Desert Ice78 Gryphons of the Western Wind 413	Posted - 2014.09.01 22:23:00 - [90] - Quote The hacking game is OK (personal opinion of course.) Maybe just a little 2 dimensional is all; I wounder what a third axis would look like? I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 687	Posted - 2014.09.02 04:17:00 - [91] - Quote I would address the hacking game in three stages. 1) remove the ability to cargo scan the container (see why in #2) 2) add bonuses to loot in the actual hacking game. Add nodes that are "extra loot or treasures. To explain. You start decrypting, you run into a bonus loot node, decrypt it, and extra loot goes into the container (which you are still in the middle of hacking). You then find the main node and decrypt it, opening the container and giving you the original container loot and any extra loot from decrypted treasure nodes. Or you spend your time scanning all the nodes in the decryption game trying to find more treasures. You spend more time getting more loot, run the risk of being attacked or failing the game. You remove the speed of it by adding bonuses to decrypting more of the board trying to find hidden loot. You add a bonus to spending more time decrypting more of the board. Determining what is in the can at that point is pointless, as you will want to try all cans to get bonus loot. Yaay!!!!
Fonac Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 45	Posted - 2014.09.02 06:29:00 - [92] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: [quote=Jeremiah Saken] Space Glitter primarily exists to beef up our content creating capabilities. For example right now we're making it considerably easier for Game Designers to create new NPCs without needing a lot of specialist knowledge. As part of that we're also visiting old content and systems that could do more than they are. Currently we're looking at Escalating Path missions and adding in some more dynamic content to the game using the underlying systems that are the basis of Incursions. Although those latter projects are both in very early stages. We have 20% time which is an idea that Google created to drive innovation. It means we can elect to spend 1/5th of our time working on projects we want to. In my case that's making Hacking better. We still need to follow all the same process that gets a feature out of the door in a release but we get to explicitly pick exactly what we work on. I hope that clears up whats going on a bit behind-the-scenes. Am i reading this correctly, that your're looking at escalation mechanics, for exploration? On OP - I must disagree with mechanics being crap. I actually like them very much.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 2440	Posted - 2014.09.02 07:06:00 - [93] - Quote Never had a problem with the hacking mini-game, though it has room for improvement. What I do think would be a nice change, is "themed" loot from the sites; example a shattered life support unit could have a slight chance for a single run implant BPC. A ship yard could have a miniscule chance for a faction ship BPC or ship skin BPC. Abbandoned mining installation could have some compounds or alloys like rogue drones used to dorp. Maybe even a new type of hybrid style site (basically old style data/relic) that has both rats and hacking containers. Edit: would be neat to start seeing faction navy hacking sites also. -
Sara Tosa School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 86	Posted - 2014.09.02 08:03:00 - [94] - Quote please, remove the distinction between data and relic tools, as it is now they do exactly the same thing but you differentiate between mods and rigs, there's no reason for that. if you want people to fill more slots so their explo ships wont be as good at fighting, just add some kind of bonus mod - for eg mods that give either virus "hp" or "dps" so one can choose which would help more.

CCP Bayesian 1189	Posted - 2014.09.02 08:18:00 - [95] - Quote Fonac wrote: Am i reading this correctly, that your're looking at escalation mechanics, for exploration? On OP - I must disagree with mechanics being crap. I actually like them very much. No, we're looking at them in their own right. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Flamespar Pradox One Proficiency V. 1233	Posted - 2014.09.02 08:25:00 - [96] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: Lastly, how do you distribute tasks beetwen ppl in teams? You are working on hacking, someone else on loot tables etc. Wouldn't be good to assign ppl to specific works and keep them there when in need? Like, you've done hacking, project closed, now someone else want to do some tweaks, for example Fozzie, without knowledge about hacking, and messes with your vision and aproach to part of exploration by puting space invaders in it. Or it's just whole Space Glitter working and brainstorming on task? Sometimes it feels like some devs being punished and being assigned to ungrateful works. Usually we work quite collaboratively, with each discipline area taking the lead for their own work. I'm a bit odd as although I'm a Software Engineer by title I've also throughout my career at CCP and other game studios done a lot of design work. For example a lot of the 'exploring ships as an avatar' prototype came from myself (and the rest of the team working on it). It's interesting because we made it before survival sims became popular and it shared a lot in common with them. I've also talked extensively about our prototyping at Fanfest and you can find the talk on the CCP channel. The 'bad' old way with six month releases often meant we got reassigned to something new at the end of a release with no time to work on it further. With the current new awesome model there is a lot more freedom for the people making changes to the game to control their own work. We still don't get to work on anything but are much less micro-managed as long as we have a good case for what we're doing. Space Glitter primarily exists to beef up our content creating capabilities. For example right now we're making it considerably easier for Game Designers to create new NPCs without needing a lot of specialist knowledge. As part of that we're also visiting old content and systems that could do more than they are. Currently we're looking at Escalating Path missions and adding in some more dynamic content to the game using the underlying systems that are the basis of Incursions. Although those latter projects are both in very early stages. We have 20% time which is an idea that Google created to drive innovation. It means we can elect to spend 1/5th of our time working on projects we want to. In my case that's making Hacking better. We still need to follow all the same process that gets a feature out of the door in a release but we get to explicitly pick exactly what we work on. I hope that clears up whats going on a bit behind-the-scenes. I'm curious (without wanting to raise hopes) if some of your 20% time has been used to look at more stuff to do with avatars? EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar

CCP Bayesian 1192	Posted - 2014.09.02 09:36:00 - [97] - Quote Flamespar wrote: I'm curious (without wanting to raise hopes) if some of your 20% time has been used to look at more stuff to do with avatars? Sadly no, it's beyond the scope of a 20% project really. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 78	Posted - 2014.09.02 09:44:00 - [98] - Quote Flamespar wrote: I'm curious (without wanting to raise hopes) if some of your 20% time has been used to look at more stuff to do with avatars? If so, avatars would be primarly used in exploration or other stuff as well, like stations? Do you have any testers for above? I wouldn't mind to test it. I'm not scared with harsh graphic, concept is what matter the most. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda 1506	Posted - 2014.09.02 10:26:00 - [99] - Quote There is a bad quality video from a Russian eve meeting where they showed the prototype. It's not something that is coming anytime soon. It's something ccp has experimented with. It's exploration into the unknown territory of avatar gameplay. Right now, the focus is on spaceship gameplay and there is a mountain of work to do before ccp as a company can afford reducing eve-spaceship development to increase eve-avatar development Build your empire ! Start today ! Rent Space in Perrigen Falls and Feythabolis Contact me for details :)
Cherry Sulphate ojingo 0	Posted - 2014.09.02 10:34:00 - [100] - Quote i enjoy the mini-game but wouldn't argue against increasing the skill involved - but please, no automation. of course, you can still blindly luck into it, same as you could by randomly selecting answers in a multiple choice questionnaire, but there's definitely a degree of skill here. also, the donkeys moaning about it preventing you from monitoring local/d-scan. that's kind of the point, get better at multi-tasking. i support anything to make it harder for the OMGIWANTMYLEWTS4FREEANDNOEFFORT crowd. looking forward to an iterative improvement on what we already have.

Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 78	Posted - 2014.09.02 10:52:00 - [101] - Quote Gilbaron wrote: It's not something that is coming anytime soon. It's something ccp has experimented with. It's exploration into the unknown territory of avatar gameplay. Right now, the focus is on spaceship gameplay and there is a mountain of work to do before ccp as a company can afford reducing eve-spaceship development to increase eve-avatar development Not necessarily. Dust was announced on PC. It's like PvP avatars. I'm completely laic from software side ofc, i don't know if EvE and PC version of Dust can be merged, but if they can, what keeps you from implement non combat activity? Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Flamespar Pradox One Proficiency V. 1233	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:02:00 - [102] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: Flamespar wrote: I'm curious (without wanting to raise hopes) if some of your 20% time has been used to look at more stuff to do with avatars? Sadly no, it's beyond the scope of a 20% project really. It's a shame. EVE for me is a game about exploration. And it's a shame that there's a part of EVE we can't explore. There's nothing more frustrating for an explorer than a locked door. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar
Sabriz Adoudel Mission BLITZ 3525	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:45:00 - [103] - Quote I think the current hacking mechanic gets the balance right in keeping you in the site long enough that the site can sometimes drive conflict. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=366607 - Gank incursion runners, win prizes! August 26-Sept 30. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos
Malice Redeemer Redeemer Group 158	Posted - 2014.09.02 16:13:00 - [104] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: Sargeant Hellian, no, I said we use AI for testing, I didn't say that was the only testing we do and it isn't. It's just a massive help for volume in a quantitative sense. We still do a bunch of manual qualitative testing. Jeremiah Saken, no real plans for expanding it elsewhere but many ideas floated. Most of these sorts of things require more art, audio and basically more people working on it for a feature that needs it. This is a small project I'm working on reasonably slowly in the scheme of things but the codebase is good so additions are pretty easy. DeMichael Crimson, thanks for the suggestions. I think there is a video of an early version of the Avatar prototype that was shown at a Russian player meet floating around if you want to have a little more evidence to help that belief. A loot revamp primarily looking at the imbalance between Data and Relic sites is planned in the not too distant future by the other guys on Space Glitter. I know this is a little off topic, but as you mentioned loot balance... I wonder at this point if you guys even realize that the drone combat sites are a complete waste of time right now? You must have data on this from site completions, no one that knows better does them, they sit in space till they despawn.
Arronicus Caldari Navy Reconnaissance 1123	Posted - 2014.09.02 16:54:00 - [105] - Quote I too, really enjoy the current hacking mechanic, but some little improvements and rebalances to it would be nice. The rewards do certainly feel a little underwhelming for the effort involved though. I can understand that the more sties there are, the lower the rewards have to be to prevent oversaturation of rewards on the market, and that people want lots of sites to be able to explore that content, but perhaps a revision to the rarity dynamic is in order. More hacking sites with inferior rewards, and a smaller number with higher end rewards, like the faction bpcs. Keep the accessibility up to the minigame, but make the high value sites scarce but present.
Tarpedo Incursionista 1378	Posted - 2014.09.02 18:06:00 - [106] - Quote I don't agree with OP, scanning in EVE is worse than hacking. Pale bubbles in empty space with schematic orbits, stars, planets - it look like a game from the age of cassette computers in 80s.
Mhari Dson Lazy Brothers Inc 117	Posted - 2014.09.03 08:08:00 - [107] - Quote Sinnish Saken wrote: Disagree. I personally feel like I'm playing the game when I work through the mini-game. There is a secondary reason for the mini-game IMO. It increases the time you spend at a site, meaning more actual skill = more isk, and also increases the amount of time you aren't looking at your d-scan..leading to content. Without the mini game I don't think anyone would get caught in a site unless someone is already in it waiting for you, wouldn't wish that camping on anyone. That's a reduction in content from both the hunter and the prey w/o the minigame. And for the rewards I believe they're still worth it. Kinda ok with the minigame if it didn't take up so much real estate onscreen, would be better if it were possible to get a virus strength over 40. Having the minigame at nullsec strength in hisec cosmos sites is dumb.
Mhari Dson Lazy Brothers Inc 117	Posted - 2014.09.03 08:51:00 - [108] - Quote Malice Redeemer wrote: CCP Bayesian wrote: Sargeant Hellian, no, I said we use AI for testing, I didn't say that was the only testing we do and it isn't. It's just a massive help for volume in a quantitative sense. We still do a bunch of manual qualitative testing. Jeremiah Saken, no real plans for expanding it elsewhere but many ideas floated. Most of these sorts of things require more art, audio and basically more people working on it for a feature that needs it. This is a small project I'm working on reasonably slowly in the scheme of things but the codebase is good so additions are pretty easy. DeMichael Crimson, thanks for the suggestions. I think there is a video of an early version of the Avatar prototype that was shown at a Russian player meet floating around if you want to have a little more evidence to help that belief. A loot revamp primarily looking at the imbalance between Data and Relic sites is planned in the not too distant future by the other guys on Space Glitter. I know this is a little off topic, but as you mentioned loot balance... I wonder at this point if you guys even realize that the drone combat sites are a complete waste of time right now? You must have data on this from site completions, no one that knows better does them, they sit in space till they despawn. Contract me bookmarks, I'm making out well on drone sites with the nexus chips and sentient mods TYVM.
jullll SnaiLs aNd FroGs 1	Posted - 2014.09.03 09:28:00 - [109] - Quote REWARD IS NOT WORTH IT I totaly lost interest of this activity. I loved it, thx CCP...
S'No Flake Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 36	Posted - 2014.09.04 12:28:00 - [110] - Quote jullll wrote: REWARD IS NOT WORTH IT I totaly lost interest of this activity. I loved it, thx CCP... Because of all the pussies hating the loot spew now it's not worth it anymore. While before you could make billions, now it's just worthless. Really... what was so difficult to click those cans?

Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 78	Posted - 2014.09.05 06:15:00 - [111] - Quote S'No Flake wrote: Because of all the pussies hating the loot spew now it's not worth it anymore. While before you could make billions, now it's just worthless. Yhm, because activity that can be run in cheap frigate with low skills should grant that kind of money. My last trip to null: casually played, 2 hours daily for 7 days, almost billion hauled back to empire. Wormhole travel, zero risk. There weren't any bubbles on my way so i'm thinking of switching my tengu for astero, will be even faster. Nerf was expected, exploration is way to easy now. S'No Flake wrote: Really... what was so difficult to click those cans? There was a giant thread about it. Reading is hard? Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Kyoko Onzo State War Academy Caldari State 9	Posted - 2014.09.06 16:38:00 - [112] - Quote I initially disliked the mini game; however it's a much better system than when I originally (and lastly) did exploration. Then progression sites had area equivalent rats (so BS as well in places), there were no SOE (and for a time no T3) ships and no mobile depots, so it was a real pain in the behind. I'm glad they got rid of the rats (seems fair for a ship fit for scanning not to have to do a mini combat site). Can't just, basically hand over loot though, so the mini game is a more than fair trade off (and just waiting for a module to access the can means someone can just watch local without losing attention - aka no risk). I kind of enjoy that it's an active thing now. As well it's provided for a few ganks which I'm enjoying as well!! Loot is fair too, but some better bpc's from relic sites would be appreciated. Anyways, much better than when I first ran explo sites. And, uh, scanning sites down now.... You have no idea how long that took, scanning is so easy now. Quit whining exploration is still easy isk.
Roche Pso Deltole Research Labs 1	Posted - 2014.09.08 12:20:00 - [113] - Quote I like the mini game I have killed https://zkillboard.com/kill/40268566/ and been killed https://zkillboard.com/kill/40752079 due to the mini game. If it is going to be changed or replaced it needs to be with something that ties up your attention for the time needed to get ganked.
Valhallas New Eden Robotics 24	Posted - 2014.09.08 16:23:00 - [114] - Quote Like someone else said - Should have stolen the Paradroid mini game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWmNdT7gVKs 1min 30secs in
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 29042	Posted - 2014.09.08 20:30:00 - [115] - Quote Roche Pso wrote: If it is going to be changed or replaced it needs to be with something that ties up your attention for the time needed to get ganked. Actually it already does that and if you need ganking to be made even easier, then you need better tactics. Anyway, not very many people do those sites right now and if it's changed to make ganking even easier, then nobody is gonna do those sites, thus making those sites a waste of invested Dev time. DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan \| California Eve Players \| (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions
Lucrii Dei Vector Galactic The Big Dirty 32	Posted - 2014.09.10 05:41:00 - [116] - Quote Take it from someone who's done almost nothing but relic and data sites since joining EVE. *There is nothing wrong with the hacking mini-game.* They can be completed in a matter of seconds. Exhibit A: How to play the hacking minigame. \o) Exhibit B: How to play the hacking minigame. \o/ Exhibit C: How to play the hacking minigame. (o/ There was nothing wrong with the old loot canisters either. I was mildly put off by the reduction in loot that came about because CCP wanted to change the looting mechanic for all the people that complained about it. Nobody that actually did the sites regularly before the change was bothered by the mechanic as they adapted to it and *learned what to click and what not to click.* I don't like market PVP, so I don't do market PVP. That doesn't make it a pile of crap. Fed up of next to no loot in your containers? Stop doing high-sec sites which are awful. Go take some risks and explore low-sec or null. Failing that, go and find something you do enjoy doing and stop asking for silly changes to a system that works perfectly fine for those that enjoy it. GöÇGòó The Explorer I GöÇGòó The Explorer II (Coming Soon!)
Travis Ulvaris Reliquary of Haimaktos 0	Posted - 2014.09.10 12:25:00 - [117] - Quote The minigame is a nice addition.... 'nough said
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 79	Posted - 2014.09.10 13:54:00 - [118] - Quote Lucrii Dei wrote: Take it from someone who's done almost nothing but relic and data sites since joining EVE. There is nothing wrong with the hacking mini-game. They can be completed in a matter of seconds. I did one can in two clicks once. First was defensive node, second was system core. It doesn't mean i do not want improvement in whole system. Lucrii Dei wrote: There was nothing wrong with the old loot canisters either. I was mildly put off by the reduction in loot that came about because CCP wanted to change the looting mechanic for all the people that complained about it. Nobody that actually did the sites regularly before the change was bothered by the mechanic as they adapted to it and learned what to click and what not to click. Again there was a very long thread why scattering cans was bad idea. Just because you liked, doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer. Lucrii Dei wrote: Failing that, go and find something you do enjoy doing and stop asking for silly changes to a system that works perfectly fine for those that enjoy it. Some of us like pong, some of us want something better. I don't like some of the changes to exploration that was made in odyssey but they may be changed someday. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á I am the night. I'm Bantam.
Lucrii Dei Vector Galactic The Big Dirty 32	Posted - 2014.09.10 20:27:00 - [119] - Quote I never liked nor hated scatter cans. I just accepted them as a feature and learned how to deal with them. There wouldn't be any suffering if others did the same. GöÇGòó The Explorer I GöÇGòó The Explorer II (Coming Soon!)
Agondray Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces 127	Posted - 2014.09.14 21:53:00 - [120] - Quote Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: I kind of like it. Its a nice blend of character skill and actual skill. Just saying. there is no skill to it, 1 hack the finish point is right next to you and another hack its clear on the other side, in a corner, in the basement with no lights in a locked filing cabinet on display, and a firewall every other node "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mine" -Dr. Smith

Celise Katelo State War Academy Caldari State 12	Posted - 2014.09.17 14:54:00 - [121] - Quote I think your clone should get nano-teched into the mini-game & you have to fly [insert ship your choice/of available ships] inside & blast away like a Jedi Master inside a giant maze, killing cubes (mines), other strange stuff & then face a mini boss (like a Burner mission) of random CCP choice Once complete you get your rewards or die & meet your maker
Celise Katelo State War Academy Caldari State 28	Posted - 2014.09.17 14:54:56 - [122] - Quote I think your clone should get nano-teched into the mini-game & you have to fly [insert ship your choice/of available ships] inside & blast away like a Jedi Master inside a giant maze, killing cubes (mines), other strange stuff & then face a mini boss (like a Burner mission) of random CCP choice Once complete you get your rewards or die & meet your maker
BraiZure Harloon A-31 Violent Intent 25	Posted - 2014.09.25 08:34:00 - [123] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: I've actually been prototyping some additions to Hacking as part of a small side project in my "20% Time". The first is a distance indicator that tells you how far away the last node uncovered is from "good stuff". This helps with second by second decision making by letting you follow trends. This also helps determine which Defense Software to attack first. On top of which it generally needs less clicks to complete a hack. I'm experimenting with definitions of "good stuff". The second is to help with having more strategic decisions whilst actually hacking. I added multiple cores which unlock explicit bits of the loot in the container. This gives the hacker the ability to balance more of the risk vs. reward themselves as they go rather than it being an all or nothing thing. Both of these changes give scope for more interesting Defense Software and Utilities. I'd like to alter the Restoration Node substantially as well to make it less overpowered and generally more interesting. I want to make clear that there is no real ETA for when these changes might hit TQ but I wanted you to know that the state of Hacking is definitely something I and others care about and something someone is actually working on. I understand this is your 20% and thanks for your efforts. Most explorers don't hack empty cans after scanning them, and since most of EVE seems to be right place right time how about a critical success chance option. I've hacked cans without ever touching any defenses only to find it's empty or it's my OCD about leaving sites unfinished. How about a chance at a mini expedition for one or two more cans if a player successfully hacks a can with over 70 coherence left, or two if over 100? A second option is have the can spawn a surprise cargo container with an item off random loot table not normally associated with data sites. It doesn't have to be very valuable but off a larger loot table for variety. Could be something useful such as 1 dose of a Synth Booster, pirate or navy tag or maybe just something silly like a nexus chip available to turn in for InterBus or X-Sence LP or Brokara's Modified Slaver Hound to a corpse of "CCP Spew Mechanic". Third option maybe a message in your local or the soon to be added opt in notification as to another system with a current relic, data or ghost site with no guarantee if it's still there by the time you get there. Fourth option, and least game-breaking is the same sort of notification of a system with a lore site such as City of God, Mysterious Shuttle, Roden Shipyards or an Empire Data Center. Most newer explorers no nothing of these or have to use out of game tools to find those. While my suggestions are more about the results of the mini game rather than the method, all of these in my mind are viable options to make the player experience of exploration more exciting and feel more like an Archaeologist or Hacker rather than a loot farmer.
BraiZure Harloon A-31 Violent Intent 27	Posted - 2014.09.25 08:34:56 - [124] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: I've actually been prototyping some additions to Hacking as part of a small side project in my "20% Time". The first is a distance indicator that tells you how far away the last node uncovered is from "good stuff". This helps with second by second decision making by letting you follow trends. This also helps determine which Defense Software to attack first. On top of which it generally needs less clicks to complete a hack. I'm experimenting with definitions of "good stuff". The second is to help with having more strategic decisions whilst actually hacking. I added multiple cores which unlock explicit bits of the loot in the container. This gives the hacker the ability to balance more of the risk vs. reward themselves as they go rather than it being an all or nothing thing. Both of these changes give scope for more interesting Defense Software and Utilities. I'd like to alter the Restoration Node substantially as well to make it less overpowered and generally more interesting. I want to make clear that there is no real ETA for when these changes might hit TQ but I wanted you to know that the state of Hacking is definitely something I and others care about and something someone is actually working on. I understand this is your 20% and thanks for your efforts. Most explorers don't hack empty cans after scanning them, and since most of EVE seems to be right place right time how about a critical success chance option. I've hacked cans without ever touching any defenses only to find it's empty or it's my OCD about leaving sites unfinished. How about a chance at a mini expedition for one or two more cans if a player successfully hacks a can with over 100 coherence left, or two if over 130? A second option is have the can spawn a surprise cargo container with an item off random loot table not normally associated with data sites. It doesn't have to be very valuable but off a larger loot table for variety. Could be something useful such as 1 dose of a Synth Booster, pirate or navy tag or maybe just something silly like a nexus chip available to turn in for InterBus or X-Sence LP or Brokara's Modified Slaver Hound to a corpse of "CCP Spew Mechanic". Third option maybe a message in your local or the soon to be added opt in notification as to another system with a current relic, data or ghost site with no guarantee if it's still there by the time you get there. Fourth option, and least game-breaking is the same sort of notification of a system with a lore site such as City of God, Mysterious Shuttle, Roden Shipyards or an Empire Data Center. Most newer explorers no nothing of these or have to use out of game tools to find those. While my suggestions are more about the results of the mini game rather than the method, all of these in my mind are viable options to make the player experience of exploration more exciting and feel more like an Archaeologist or Hacker rather than a loot farmer.

CCP Bayesian 1220	Posted - 2014.12.02 10:03:12 - [125] - Quote I thought I'd pop in here and say that one of these changes is out on Singularity and coming to TQ with Rhea next Tuesday. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter


CCP Bayesian 1220	Posted - 2014.12.02 10:03:22 - [126] - Quote double posts EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Qapla Orion Biohazard Systems Tracking and Recon Division 8	Posted - 2014.12.02 12:07:04 - [127] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: I thought I'd pop in here and say that one of these changes is out on Singularity and coming to TQ with Rhea next Tuesday. Care to share which one? Pretty please?
Noriko Mai 1629	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:51:57 - [128] - Quote Qapla Orion wrote: CCP Bayesian wrote: I thought I'd pop in here and say that one of these changes is out on Singularity and coming to TQ with Rhea next Tuesday. Care to share which one? Pretty please? After hacking a Storage Depot in the Standard Sleeper Cache a second (Pristine) Storage Depot may spawn. At the same time a Alarm Unit spawns and gives you a timer of 30sec (irc) before sounding the alarm and activating the defense towers/turrets.
Orlacc 645	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:00:49 - [129] - Quote Is necro allowed now? "Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 1601	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:28:52 - [130] - Quote Orlacc wrote: Is necro allowed now? Necro always welcome for added greatness. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.

Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1202	Posted - 2014.12.03 00:05:34 - [131] - Quote Sargeant Hellian wrote: yup - total BS the state of hacking. HEY let's make a whole game where your performance is based on a sliding scale of 5 skill levels.. then let's make the mini game ave NOTHING TO DO with those skills other than getting 10 health on your virus. HEY I have another great idea : lets make empty cans (after all they don't have to warp in 4 friends to catch cans anymore so let's F___ em over some! HEY! What about cans that are ALMOST empty? Let's just put one carbon in there! PS - CCP you should be ******* embarassed about what you did with this mini game. You can scan the cans. The main issue is their is more connection between player skill and results in Candy Crush then the mini-game.
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 110	Posted - 2014.12.03 10:53:17 - [132] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: Samwise Everquest wrote: DeMichael Crimson wrote: This game definitely didn't need another click fest mechanic added to it. DMC Games usually require user input (clicking things.) Compared to most games, EvE has very little button mashing as it is so I am not sure what you are really complaining about. Sounds like you'd rather the game just play for you. This game involves a lot of mouse clicking in all aspects. Planetary Interaction was a major click fest when it was first implemented and even after a couple of reiterations / rework, it's still a click fest. The Mini-Hacking game is another major click fest which includes a lot more clicking than what's actually needed. I don't mind clicking a few things to accomplish something in this game but I definitely don't wanna be clicking +25 or more 'Nodes' just to hack one can at a site, especially when there's usually more than 1 can located at these sites.. This game is portrayed as being set in a futuristic time with space travel, computers, etc. The Mini-Hacking Game takes up way too much real estate on the screen. It should be resizable and the hack itself be automatic. The hacking screen itself should be something to monitor the progress of the hack. I should be able to start a hack with 1 click which would automatically continue going through Nodes until the hack completes it's programming and finds the Core. If the hack encounters something, a prompt message should appear on screen asking me to select an action depending on what's encountered. After clicking ignore, use or attack and receiving the consequences for that action, the hack would then automatically continue going through Nodes searching for the Core. Now if that sounds like I want the game to play itself for me, then yeah, that's what I want. DMC sounds pretty boring suppose you want the sites to scan themselves also? EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 122	Posted - 2014.12.03 11:27:34 - [133] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: sounds pretty boring suppose you want the sites to scan themselves also? Clickfest becomes an issue with hardest cans. Grids are bigger and defensive subsytems need more clicks to be destroyed,system core: 3 , virus suppressors: 3 , harderst firewalls: 3 . It could be easily avoided. Instead 3 actions to destroy defensive subsystem why not making it some sort of attack command and waiting for result. If i'm attacking it i'm determined to destroy it why it has to be in 3 steps when it could take just one. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears. I am the night. I'm Bantam. More exploration in exploration
Thanatos Marathon Phoibe Enterprises 363	Posted - 2014.12.03 15:17:09 - [134] - Quote I actually enjoy the hacking game even though it isn't the greatest thing ever. Just a little something different to add some variety.
Shon Anzomi Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.12.04 09:44:30 - [135] - Quote In the two months that I play this game I scanned hundreds of sites and cans and majority of my SP come from scanning and hacking skills. I also almost solely rely on income from exploration. With this being said, I don't have problem with the minigame whatsoever. The only thing I would change is that I would change minigame for data and relic sites. It doesnt look like archeology, does it? Also maybe sleeper sites need different minigame too. So I dont complain, but more variety would be nice. What is nice that the minigame is thought through, it scales in difficulty good, it is balanced with all the buffs and debuffs. So if there was any change to be made the bar is set quite high already.
Sam Spock The Scope Gallente Federation 29	Posted - 2014.12.04 15:21:41 - [136] - Quote A chance for an escalation from the cans similar to what can happen in the drone regions would be nice to see and give incentive for people to hack all the cans. Maybe just escalate to one of the standard sites or even one that is one security level higher (null would get a Sleeper site, rats and all!). The minigame is ok but my right index finger hurts all the time now. Giving you Inconsistent grammar, speilling and Punct-uation since 1974!
SpaceSaft Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club 109	Posted - 2014.12.04 20:59:59 - [137] - Quote Props to CCP Bayesian for doing this. Anything that makes the mini"game" more interesting is a good change.
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1425	Posted - 2014.12.04 21:37:33 - [138] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: I'm on Team Space Glitter and our mission right now is to basically improve gameplay content related stuff. We're committed to doing a lot of tools work to speed up all the designers as well as fixing and creating new content. Currently we're making NPC Authoring easier whilst our design focused people (FoxFour and Affinity) are coming up with some new stuff and plans for fixing some existing content that badly needs work. Hacking sort of fits into that but I'm working on it because I had a big hand in designing it and it's never made it to the quality the team who worked on it liked particularly. The current implementation is functional but shallow and misses some key features of the original design as well as the ideas we had for improving things as we worked on it. I'm working on it as part of some self-determined time we get to work on these sorts of projects that otherwise fall further down our priority list. That sounds great, nice ideas, but please whatever you do make sure the thinking that led to the loot spew is never again allowed to surface. Good luck with your efforts. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Orlacc 649	Posted - 2014.12.05 01:03:23 - [139] - Quote Let just leave exploration alone for a bit okay? Doing fine as far as I can tell since the spew was eliminated. "Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Quintessen Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos 456	Posted - 2014.12.06 16:07:42 - [140] - Quote At one point, CCP Bayesian you mentioned the possibility of being able to keep the tools and then selling them on the market. Is that still under consideration?

Quintessen Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos 456	Posted - 2014.12.06 16:12:57 - [141] - Quote One big problem is people not hacking all the cans. There's no incentive to and that just leaves them for everyone else. How about all the cans are hacked, there is a chance that it will reveal an additional can of a tier one higher than the current site. I do understand that not hacking cans is a form of PvP, it's not a particularly interesting form of PvP for either party. It requires less than no effort on the part of the first party and is a denying of content to the second.
Lister Vindaloo Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2014.12.06 19:54:48 - [142] - Quote Renegade Heart wrote: I love the new system. It provides a distraction for those running them in dangerous areas while you prepare to blow them up. Awesome job CCP! This is why I like the minivans and how it adds to eve, if hacking was any easier than it is, ie: auto complete, then the cans would go back to being worthless , as even more people would be doing sites, I'm glad they got rid of the spew, but with the game it adds a lot of tension to hacking fans in wormholes and low/null sec. If the posters whinging about drops are hacking in hi sec, what did you expect? Faction towers in every site? T2 salvage oozing from the cans? Maybe if you hate exploring so much you can start hunting other explorers? But I spose that would involve leaving hi sec.....
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 57	Posted - 2014.12.07 20:56:04 - [143] - Quote I like the hacking mini-game, imo it's in good balance, please don't mess with it by making it more complex ... It needs to be challenging but reasonable fast to complete, without thinking a minute before each step, cause you have to keep hacking while watching d-scan and overview to avoid being killed. please have a look at the reward of the hardest cans. I found no remains empty yet, but lot of ruins. I'm my own NPC alt.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 57	Posted - 2014.12.07 21:11:34 - [144] - Quote A prospector implant to get +5 virus strength would be a good idea. I'm my own NPC alt.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Forged of Fire 669	Posted - 2014.12.08 07:27:40 - [145] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: A prospector implant to get +5 virus strength would be a good idea. That would make it too easy. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 130	Posted - 2014.12.08 11:34:43 - [146] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: I like the hacking mini-game, imo it's in good balance*, please don't mess with it by making it more complex ... It needs to be challenging but reasonable fast to complete, without thinking a minute before each step, cause you have to keep hacking while watching d-scan and overview to avoid being killed. If you are referring to latest hacking change, JP made a video: hacking update definately not something that made hacking more complex yet still very good change. It's reducing randomnes factor a lot. Can't wait to see it on TQ. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears. I am the night. I'm Bantam. More exploration in exploration
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 57	Posted - 2014.12.08 14:42:41 - [147] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Tipa Riot wrote: I like the hacking mini-game, imo it's in good balance*, please don't mess with it by making it more complex ... It needs to be challenging but reasonable fast to complete, without thinking a minute before each step, cause you have to keep hacking while watching d-scan and overview to avoid being killed. If you are referring to latest hacking change, JP made a video: hacking update definately not something that made hacking more complex yet still very good change. It's reducing randomnes factor a lot. Can't wait to see it on TQ. Thanks for linking. Nice addition indeed; I revoke my request for a new implant ;) I'm my own NPC alt.

CCP Bayesian 1256	Posted - 2014.12.08 15:18:45 - [148] - Quote Hopefully I'll be able to put out some more improvements as I get time to work on them. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 133	Posted - 2014.12.09 18:44:33 - [149] - Quote Undocked with Astero to check the hacking change. Did one data in hisec. I think it a very good feature. It will help a lot with hardest can types. Especially in the end when only few nodes left. I've noticed i slow down the clickfest to check the numbers, it may be dangerous a bit for explorers in lower sec regions. CCP Bayesian wrote: Hopefully I'll be able to put out some more improvements as I get time to work on them. You have more of them? There was something with more than one system core. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears. I am the night. I'm Bantam. More exploration in exploration
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 800	Posted - 2014.12.10 11:31:37 - [150] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: I should be able to start a hack with 1 click which would automatically continue going through Nodes until the hack completes it's programming and finds the Core. If the hack encounters something, a prompt message should appear on screen asking me to select an action depending on what's encountered. After clicking ignore, use or attack and receiving the consequences for that action, the hack would then automatically continue going through Nodes searching for the Core. Now if that sounds like I want the game to play itself for me, then yeah, that's what I want. I feel that we may actually know the reason it is the way it is. When you look at minigame window and click it, you don't mash d-scan and don't watch surroundings that much. When you take steps to ensure your safety, you don't progress minigame. Tbh that's the only reason this minigame has something to do with actual, not out-of-context EVE gameplay. Edit: ah well, seems like it's an old thread. Forgive me, I was away for quite a while. Now, I've tried the new explo yesterday and I must say I like upcoming tweaks presented ITT. Erm... I take it those changes above aren't on TQ with Rhea yet?

servalaan 12	Posted - 2014.12.11 03:29:40 - [151] - Quote Does this need to be an out of ship experience? there has to be more to having a body than just walking to the couch in the station. Anyways....I think Instead of two or more cans at a data/relic site there should be two or more access points to a single stash. Some access points 'could' lead to dead ends, so if your alone your free to try another access point, if you have company two or more players (depending on how many access points) could access the same site at the same time and it then becomes a race for the loot, if either player screws it up the whole place pops, the loot burns and nobody gets rich. If pinocchio told you his nose was about to grow, what would happen?
Square PI Hedion University Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2014.12.11 14:15:34 - [152] - Quote Judith Baker wrote: And the rewards don't include faction bpc's anymore: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=365515 Sorry for the little necro. But i got faction POS BPC from relic sites. Not so many, but still. Got a Serpentis Medium Tower just a week ago (in Hisec). Still really rare, and maybe to rare to be good, but it is still possible to get these (or possible again after recent changes)

CCP Bayesian 1264	Posted - 2014.12.12 11:20:56 - [153] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Undocked with Astero to check the hacking change. Did one data in hisec. I think it a very good feature. It will help a lot with hardest can types. Especially in the end when only few nodes left. I've noticed i slow down the clickfest to check the numbers, it may be dangerous a bit for explorers in lower sec regions. CCP Bayesian wrote: Hopefully I'll be able to put out some more improvements as I get time to work on them. You have more of them? There was something with more than one system core. Yeah I've implemented multiple cores as a prototype which works pretty nicely. The idea is to give people a little more finesse in balancing their own risk vs. reward by splitting the loot up between cores. I'm also looking at multiple levels so you'd go deeper into the systems for more special reward and as a kind of precursor to making it viable to hack in an offensive way which probably needs something a bit more complex. The biggest requirement for this sort of stuff is a feature to tie it into though. In the meantime I'd like to put in some more utilities and defensive software to up the variation a bit more. I did actually add in a counter defensive software to the direction indicator and there are some obvious utilities to help out with that. We'll probably put these out as we get time. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 139	Posted - 2014.12.12 12:12:35 - [154] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: Yeah I've implemented multiple cores as a prototype which works pretty nicely. The idea is to give people a little more finesse in balancing their own risk vs. reward by splitting the loot up between cores. It maybe hard to balance. Too easy or too hard to find system core we want to hack. CCP Bayesian wrote: I'm also looking at multiple levels so you'd go deeper into the systems for more special reward and as a kind of precursor to making it viable to hack in an offensive way which probably needs something a bit more complex. The biggest requirement for this sort of stuff is a feature to tie it into though. Some progressive difficulty levels maybe, system that is connected to defensive sentries. Now, the more of system cores hacked the fewer sentries go online etc. I like the idea of non loot containers that have some sort of purpose on grid, defesive or gate openers. There are 3 x,y,z containers in new sleeper site. It could be one 3 system core system or 3 levels hacking container. If grid could be compressed without changing difficulty it would be great, but i think it would be hard to scale. CCP Bayesian wrote: In the meantime I'd like to put in some more utilities and defensive software to up the variation a bit more. I did actually add in a counter defensive software to the direction indicator and there are some obvious utilities to help out with that. We'll probably put these out as we get time. I don't know but it might be to helpfull with hardest cans. Direction indicator is a good thing, i've stopped midless clicking and started to watch grid carefully. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears. I am the night. I'm Bantam. More exploration in exploration
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 64	Posted - 2014.12.12 13:32:53 - [155] - Quote I get the feeling this goes in the wrong direction now ... by making it more complex, you increase the time it takes to hack a can . There are already those sleeper caches for people who like 30min of puzzle solving. Others do it for the ISK ... I'm my own NPC alt.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 139	Posted - 2014.12.12 13:37:38 - [156] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: I get the feeling this goes in the wrong direction now ... by making it more complex, you increase the time it takes to hack a can Ugh. There are already those sleeper caches for people who like 30min of puzzle solving. Others do it for the ISK ... Complex doen't necessary mean more time consuming. Also sleepers sites are rare, maybe as rare as ghost sites, you won't see them every jump. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears. I am the night. I'm Bantam. More exploration in exploration
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective 1479	Posted - 2014.12.12 13:56:36 - [157] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: I get the feeling this goes in the wrong direction now ... by making it more complex, you increase the time it takes to hack a can . There are already those sleeper caches for people who like 30min of puzzle solving. Others do it for the ISK ... Literally the worst post I've seen today. Complexity IS what makes eve (in general), and the hacking minigame, interesting. I, for me, criticized a lot the hacking minigame in the past, but this change is directly a change in the right direction! And future changes like what is prototyped right now are indeed promising. Basically, as long as when I loose a hack, I feel like its my fault, and not the RNG's fault, its fine for me :) Signature Tanking - Best Tanking
Tzar Sinak Mythic Heights 150	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:07:20 - [158] - Quote This is all very nice but there is one place hacking NEEDS to be implemented: Offline towers. I have always seen the hacking feature as a gateway to more interesting play in far more areas of EVE. The first place is offline towers: Successfully hacking the tower allows the hacker to unanchor the tower and all other tower items. Now you have space based beach combers. Hydrostatic Podcast First class listening of all things EVE Nolen Cadmar Spreadsheets Make industrial life easier!
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1049	Posted - 2014.12.12 15:13:34 - [159] - Quote Tzar Sinak wrote: This is all very nice but there is one place hacking NEEDS to be implemented: Offline towers. I have always seen the hacking feature as a gateway to more interesting play in far more areas of EVE. The first place is offline towers: Successfully hacking the tower allows the hacker to unanchor the tower and all other tower items. Now you have space based beach combers. hacking as a raiding mechanic would be nice .. once POS forcefields are removed and POS become more spread out like little cities like 500km - SMA's, silo's etc.. -moon arrays - make them seperate like a POCO where the moon goo is stored for collection Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
permion Second Battlegroup Nerfed Alliance Go Away 13	Posted - 2014.12.12 20:42:44 - [160] - Quote I think the data/relic rigs that grant benefits to your virus need to be buffed and/or gives your character a starting utility. Right now they're only useful in 1 or two edge cases. Compared to the mostly sure benefits of scan strength(at least in the players mind since they don't have any way of seeing where it wouldn't have mattered), and the less more universal benefit in the sense that they're still useful for combat scanning(scan strength/resolution).

Quanah Comanche Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.12.12 20:51:10 - [161] - Quote permion wrote: I think the data/relic rigs that grant benefits to your virus need to be buffed and/or gives your character a starting utility. Right now they're only useful in 1 or two edge cases. Compared to the mostly sure benefits of scan strength(at least in the players mind since they don't have any way of seeing where it wouldn't have mattered), and the less more universal benefit in the sense that they're still useful for combat scanning(scan strength/resolution). Huh? What dose virus strength have to do with scanning?
Quanah Comanche Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.12.12 20:56:18 - [162] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: I get the feeling this goes in the wrong direction now ... by making it more complex, you increase the time it takes to hack a can . There are already those sleeper caches for people who like 30min of puzzle solving. Others do it for the ISK ... And the more isk, the harder it should be. Risk...reward you know all that. Aren't you the one who advised not scanning WHs? Great idea to offer new explorers.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 64	Posted - 2014.12.13 08:04:06 - [163] - Quote Quanah Comanche wrote: Tipa Riot wrote: I get the feeling this goes in the wrong direction now ... by making it more complex, you increase the time it takes to hack a can . There are already those sleeper caches for people who like 30min of puzzle solving. Others do it for the ISK ... And the more isk, the harder it should be. Risk...reward you know all that. Aren't you the one who advised not scanning WHs? Great idea to offer new explorers. Yeah, it is like with every PvE activity in EvE, once it starts to get a "profession" an important factor is efficiency and ISK/h. Non-combat exploration as an income source imo is in a unique position, as it creates decent ISK with very low risk and by providing some fun gameplay at the same time. I'm looking forward to the changes (and I'm in a more positive mood about as I was when I wrote the comment ), and the new numbers are great, cause they support the hacking flow and the way of thinking. But at the end of the day, all fun and romantic feelings put aside, PvE in EvE is there to raise the ISK you can burn elsewhere which is rated by ISK/h. I'm my own NPC alt.
Yroc Jannseen Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 63	Posted - 2014.12.13 15:10:40 - [164] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: Jeremiah Saken wrote: Undocked with Astero to check the hacking change. Did one data in hisec. I think it a very good feature. It will help a lot with hardest can types. Especially in the end when only few nodes left. I've noticed i slow down the clickfest to check the numbers, it may be dangerous a bit for explorers in lower sec regions. CCP Bayesian wrote: Hopefully I'll be able to put out some more improvements as I get time to work on them. You have more of them? There was something with more than one system core. Yeah I've implemented multiple cores as a prototype which works pretty nicely. The idea is to give people a little more finesse in balancing their own risk vs. reward by splitting the loot up between cores. I'm also looking at multiple levels so you'd go deeper into the systems for more special reward and as a kind of precursor to making it viable to hack in an offensive way which probably needs something a bit more complex. The biggest requirement for this sort of stuff is a feature to tie it into though. In the meantime I'd like to put in some more utilities and defensive software to up the variation a bit more. I did actually add in a counter defensive software to the direction indicator and there are some obvious utilities to help out with that. We'll probably put these out as we get time. Have you guys looked at a version of the game where players take a defensive role? In other words this as a form of pvp. It would have to be tied into some other game mechanic, but the idea of two fleets fighting it out while two people play space chess to out hack each other is entertaining to me.
Quintessen Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos 464	Posted - 2014.12.16 16:25:46 - [165] - Quote Can we at least get the sites to de-spawn after there is no more loot. I've been to multiple sites where there are only empty cans remaining. Still un-hacked, but empty.
Orlacc 668	Posted - 2014.12.16 18:09:35 - [166] - Quote Quintessen wrote: Can we at least get the sites to de-spawn after there is no more loot. I've been to multiple sites where there are only empty cans remaining. Still un-hacked, but empty. They do despawn "Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Varyah I am Forever of the Stars 1	Posted - 2014.12.18 12:50:37 - [167] - Quote I find most aspects of the current system rather silly in the sense that the depiction of "hacking" is something you can do ad hoc with some fancy graphical interface starting with zero knowledge and tools, similar to the often even more silly depictions in movies and TV shows. Especially when you have some computer science or programming background you would expect something different. I accept that it should be something like a minigame. Just activating your module and waiting for the loot to appear is kind of boring and too similar to mining. But first I would appreciate a smaller/resizable interface. Second I would envision "hacking" more like a tower defense minigame: Lets say we salvage the current layout of the minigame but you start with some tools instead of discovering good stuff (as a hacker you don't hack a computer and find suddenly on that computer a program that you can use to shut down the antivirus software, you bring that yourself). The amount and power of these tools depends on skills and skilllevels and/or modules. For example you start with two port scanners, a rootkit (use to make one of your tools invisible) and a few different types of viruses/malware (insert fancy names for them). You place these tools like towers in discovered areas (nodes in the current layout), you start on one side of the "map". Port scanners unveil nodes one by one each round automatically. If the port scanner is detected, i.e. gameplay: You unveil a node with a defense system, this defense system sends out "minions" (defense routines) to attack your port scanners. Now you place your fancily named malware in the right place to spawn your own "minions" (attack routines) to overwhelm the defense system. Essentially you have to choose the right malware to attack specific types of defense systems and/or find the weak spot in the defense so that your "minions" reach the opposite side of the "map". Add optional goals (total annihilation / destroy all of certain type of defense system / don't lose any of your systems / win without using the rootkit / etc.) for additional loot in the cans.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 832	Posted - 2015.01.29 19:00:20 - [168] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: I kind of like it. Its a nice blend of character skill and actual skill. Just saying. You sir are completely out of your mind. There is no actual skill involved. It is simply a button click fest. Actually, I take that back. There is some player skill involved. Pressing that button faster and faster is a kinda a player skill. We actually have an AI we use for testing which does a lot more than clicking quickly and doesn't cheat. I'm not going to say there is a huge skill ceiling but there certainly is one particularly in the harder systems. I've not yet seen a guide online that hits all the points we use. Granted they get the majority of really meaningful things correct and Hacking in hostile space is a bit different to a computer crunching. I actually quite like the idea of remaking the AI to be used in EVE, dumbing it down a bit and slowing it up so people can choose to fit an Auto-Hacking module. You'd be less successful overall but it'd be nice for people who don't want to Hack themselves. I also think there is a lot of room for giving high skill level Hackers something else to do. Totally supported. The auto hack would also keep you in one spot longer, open to attack, I hope. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
d026 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.01.29 21:10:05 - [169] - Quote i utterely dislike the new hacking system. its a horrible klickfest, please implement the automated hacker II's. or just make the module how it was before. the minigame does not add anything to the game except frustration.
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 933	Posted - 2015.01.29 21:29:17 - [170] - Quote yeah auto hacker 2 should have a 3 minute cycle time though and you can't move while it's on

Orlacc 755	Posted - 2015.01.29 22:09:23 - [171] - Quote How about not messing with exploration any more for a spell? "Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 111	Posted - 2015.01.29 22:57:43 - [172] - Quote Oh my goodness, "auto-hacker" modules are the dumbest thing I've read in a while ... what's wrong with the minigame? If you can't beat it, get better! If it's not challenging enough, why bother? I'm my own NPC alt.
Garreth Arji Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.01.29 23:10:00 - [173] - Quote I have to agree that the mini-game is not cool. A lot of people undertook hacking and exploration as a semi-passive income when we had to do other things like study or work simultaneously saving our miniscule active game time for PVP & fun. This can;t be done anymore as CCP makes the game more and more against people having any passive income. This is a game that I got into because it was too complex for most warcraft folks to come to, and also allowed passive income generation to spend active time having fun in PVP. Both of those selling points for me are gone now. It's a choice between 3 options and none of them are appealing to me. 1 - Leave EVE alltogether, stop paying money to them and in turn abandon all my friends I made in this game I used to love. 2 - Continue playing EVE, paying a sub, yet never feeling that I get any value out of it because all my time goes into making isk and moving assets around to prepare for PVP I never get to take part in. 3 - Continue playing and paying, forget PVP and fun, and simply have a social environment that allows practice making spreadsheets and playing markets. Sadly, I go with option 3 because there is nothing else, but this eve is not the eve that captured my attention, drew me in, and captivated me for the darkest years of my life. That old eve got me through some tough stuff IRL and now it is not the thing I grew to love anymore
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 46687	Posted - 2015.01.29 23:19:17 - [174] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Oh my goodness, "auto-hacker" modules are the dumbest thing I've read in a while ... what's wrong with the minigame? If you can't beat it, get better! If it's not challenging enough, why bother? I'll tell you what's wrong with the mini-game. First of all it's a damn click-fest. Secondly it takes up way too much area on the screen. Thirdly it takes too long to complete. Fourth, there's more 'Risk' involved than there is 'Reward'. Fifth, cargo scanners allow players to 'Meta-game' the sites. In my opinion that makes them worthless. Definitely not exploration but more like traps to lure in easy victims. And yes I have max skills with top of the line equipment. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 933	Posted - 2015.01.29 23:35:00 - [175] - Quote make them immune to cargo scanners :D
Garreth Arji Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2015.01.29 23:50:19 - [176] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: make them immune to cargo scanners :D I'd rather make the small amount of active gaming time I have immune to wasteful time sinks. Exploration was always meant to be an income source, not content in and of itself until this mini-game came into existence. That only happened because they spend so much time looking for ways to increase monetization that the game has become more about subscriber revenue than about the game. I feel betrayed as a bitter vet. I left before and gave away all my original accounts and assets, yes regretfully I will add. However, coming back to the game because of social interaction, old friends, some family who still play, etc. has brought me back into a game that I find more malice for than love. I'm not the only person that sees this either. The only way I know how to explain this is that it feels like an active campaign against my time and the only way to fight it is to be rich and pay more IRL $ to this company in an attempt to get the same level of service that used to be available without the extra time, money and effort. Effectively, the ability to extract fun from this game has been squandered for the sake of higher numbers next to that $ symbol in their accounting department.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 213	Posted - 2015.01.30 09:42:54 - [177] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: First of all it's a damn click-fest. They add new mechanism to hacking few patches ago. Now we have bigger impact where do we want to go on grid. Reduced clicking a lot. As for improving whole thing CCP Bayesian had some aces in the sleeve, not all features were implemented at day 1 as far as i know. It's fine imo, if i can hack +15 devices/cans in sleeper cache and don't vomit it's good. Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Totally supported. The auto hack would also keep you in one spot longer, open to attack, I hope I think it would be good option for those who don't want to hack actively. I can hack a can in 15-20 sec, 3 min is enough for passive activity. Chance based ofc. About cargo scanning, i think i will change side and vote for no removing it. "...genre is a definition, the definition in itself must have boundaries, the boundaries act as barriers, and the barriers are like walls, like the walls of a prisonn++..." The Good, The Bad and The Bantam
d026 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.01.30 10:45:34 - [178] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Oh my goodness, "auto-hacker" modules are the dumbest thing I've read in a while ... what's wrong with the minigame? If you can't beat it, get better! If it's not challenging enough, why bother? hacking is not hard.. but its boring because you have to klick an average of 50 nodes!
d026 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.01.30 10:51:21 - [179] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: DeMichael Crimson wrote: First of all it's a damn click-fest. They add new mechanism to hacking few patches ago. Now we have bigger impact where do we want to go on grid. Reduced clicking a lot. As for improving whole thing CCP Bayesian had some aces in the sleeve, not all features were implemented at day 1 as far as i know. It's fine imo, if i can hack +15 devices/cans in sleeper cache and don't vomit it's good. Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Totally supported. The auto hack would also keep you in one spot longer, open to attack, I hope I think it would be good option for those who don't want to hack actively. I can hack a can in 15-20 sec, 3 min is enough for passive activity. Chance based ofc. About cargo scanning, i think i will change side and vote for no removing it. 3 minutes is hilarious. a hacking attempt should take no longer than maybe 15 seconds!
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 213	Posted - 2015.01.30 13:17:20 - [180] - Quote d026 wrote: 3 minutes is hilarious. a hacking attempt should take no longer than maybe 15 seconds! Faster than manual scanning, and maybe with 100% chance of succes? No. You must put and effort into activity to get a candy. "...genre is a definition, the definition in itself must have boundaries, the boundaries act as barriers, and the barriers are like walls, like the walls of a prisonn++..." The Good, The Bad and The Bantam

Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 934	Posted - 2015.01.30 13:25:39 - [181] - Quote Why don't all you people who hate hacking maybe........................DONT DO IT? There's plenty of other ways of making money in this game, if you don't like the minigame nobody is forcing you to do it. Exploration should have risk associated with it, it's not some cash cow you can just milk without consequence.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 112	Posted - 2015.01.30 13:42:50 - [182] - Quote Now I see where this comes from ... some of you expect passive income from exploration. For myself I picked exploration because it is not passive and can be combined with PvP opportunities. So far it took me a couple of hours in roaming on a weekend to fund a couple of weeks PvP. Though I honor a reasonable ISK/h ratio, I bet for passive income it's better to rent goon space and let some "AFKtars" do their job. Regarding "auto-hacking", if this module performs significantly worse than any manual low-skill hacker and pins you at the point (like bastion mode), I'm fine with it. In general I think, EvE needs more and not less activities which require actual player skills. Just my point of view. I'm my own NPC alt.
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 7921	Posted - 2015.01.30 20:58:27 - [183] - Quote I think that you people just don't want to hack things, well.. Just don't do it. More hacking for me. Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
Orlacc 764	Posted - 2015.01.30 21:04:13 - [184] - Quote You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game. "Measure Twice, Cut Once."
d026 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.01.31 11:12:30 - [185] - Quote Orlacc wrote: You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game. i was running hacking sites back when they were introduced and had npc's in them. the bigger sites needed a proper tank to beat the waves if i remember right. tbh i much more preferred to kill some rats as the minigame than the hacking we have now. with rats in the plex you can't just ******* fly in hostile 0.0 with a frig costing you less than a couple million isk. you had to bring at least a real ship which could be blown up. right now we have a exploration system with very little risk and big rewards coupled with a very annoying minigame.
d026 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.01.31 11:15:04 - [186] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: N Regarding "auto-hacking", if this module performs significantly worse than any manual low-skill hacker and pins you at the point (like bastion mode), I'm fine with it. In general I think, EvE needs more and not less activities which require actual player skills. Just my point of view. bullshite.. just make the module like pre patch. chance based with a cycle time of ccp's choosing and everybody is happy:)
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 938	Posted - 2015.01.31 11:19:19 - [187] - Quote d026 wrote: Orlacc wrote: You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game. i was running hacking sites back when they were introduced and had npc's in them. the bigger sites needed a proper tank to beat the waves if i remember right. tbh i much more preferred to kill some rats as the minigame than the hacking we have now. with rats in the plex you can't just ******* fly in hostile 0.0 with a frig costing you less than a couple million isk. you had to bring at least a real ship which could be blown up. right now we have a exploration system with very little risk and big rewards coupled with a very annoying minigame. there is risk involved, you have to sit uncloaked while hacking which allows people to attack you. I don't think you understand what risk means, fitting up an expensive ship that can tank rats while you hack is NOT risk. It's just a skill barrier.
Nakovi Kitsune Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly Events 8	Posted - 2015.01.31 18:22:24 - [188] - Quote Definitely agree with OP. Even if you just made it like it used to be, but made data and relic modules disable d-scan while turned on, that would be an improvement. In short, I would rather watch a circle slowly fill up then play that horrendous mini-game. Devs should play the latest Deus Ex for an idea on how such a minigame should actually work.
Orlacc 768	Posted - 2015.01.31 18:36:48 - [189] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: d026 wrote: Orlacc wrote: You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game. i was running hacking sites back when they were introduced and had npc's in them. the bigger sites needed a proper tank to beat the waves if i remember right. tbh i much more preferred to kill some rats as the minigame than the hacking we have now. with rats in the plex you can't just ******* fly in hostile 0.0 with a frig costing you less than a couple million isk. you had to bring at least a real ship which could be blown up. right now we have a exploration system with very little risk and big rewards coupled with a very annoying minigame. there is risk involved, you have to sit uncloaked while hacking which allows people to attack you. I don't think you understand what risk means, fitting up an expensive ship that can tank rats while you hack is NOT risk. It's just a skill barrier. If I am the hole with you there is risk. "Measure Twice, Cut Once."
d026 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.01.31 18:54:01 - [190] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: d026 wrote: Orlacc wrote: You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game. i was running hacking sites back when they were introduced and had npc's in them. the bigger sites needed a proper tank to beat the waves if i remember right. tbh i much more preferred to kill some rats as the minigame than the hacking we have now. with rats in the plex you can't just ******* fly in hostile 0.0 with a frig costing you less than a couple million isk. you had to bring at least a real ship which could be blown up. right now we have a exploration system with very little risk and big rewards coupled with a very annoying minigame. there is risk involved, you have to sit uncloaked while hacking which allows people to attack you. I don't think you understand what risk means, fitting up an expensive ship that can tank rats while you hack is NOT risk. It's just a skill barrier. The risk is losing a frigate. This is quite crazy considering you can make 100,s of millions/h in 0.0 with almost minimal risk loosing ur pity frig. Back in the days to do a hacking site u needed at least something like a t2 cruiser to fight off the rats first. This makes the risk reward way more proportional. For example if you want to go run a ded plex in 0.0 you never gonna make it in a frigate. So heavily buff 0.0 exploration sites. Even in highec. To achieve a 100mil/h u gonna fly a rattlesnake or a golem both worth around a billion. Now you really wanna tel me u can earn the same amount in a frig? No way mate bring ur golem to 0.0. But u probably don't have the balls to do such a thing because u think decloaking for 15 seconds while doing a can is already to dangerous

d026 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.01.31 18:59:51 - [191] - Quote Nakovi Kitsune wrote: Definitely agree with OP. Even if you just made it like it used to be, but made data and relic modules disable d-scan while turned on, that would be an improvement. In short, I would rather watch a circle slowly fill up then play that horrendous mini-game. Devs should play the latest Deus Ex for an idea on how such a minigame should actually work. Disabling dscan only is hurting losec wh explorers. To make exploration risky again is to up the game. I would say for high reward exploration sites you need at best marauders or t3 ships at least. For shiny loot bring the shiny ship!
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 214	Posted - 2015.01.31 19:55:50 - [192] - Quote d026 wrote: Disabling dscan only is hurting losec wh explorers. To make exploration risky again is to up the game. I would say for high reward exploration sites you need at best marauders or t3 ships at least. For shiny loot bring the shiny ship! Try sleepers sites and we'll talk about losing ships to PvE content. Especially superior sites. Also if nullsec was as much dangerous as lowsec you would have your treshold. Putting rats back doesn't make exploration riskier. You just can't adapt to new conditions. "...genre is a definition, the definition in itself must have boundaries, the boundaries act as barriers, and the barriers are like walls, like the walls of a prisonn++..." The Good, The Bad and The Bantam
d026 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.01.31 20:22:28 - [193] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: d026 wrote: Disabling dscan only is hurting losec wh explorers. To make exploration risky again is to up the game. I would say for high reward exploration sites you need at best marauders or t3 ships at least. For shiny loot bring the shiny ship! Try sleepers sites and we'll talk about losing ships to PvE content. Especially superior sites. Also if nullsec was as much dangerous as lowsec you would have your treshold. Putting rats back doesn't make exploration riskier. You just can't adapt to new conditions. Yes I agre 0.0 needs to be way more dangerous. That's why you shouldn't be able to do 0.0 sites in a covops in almost guaranteed safety. Adding rats to the sites would help a lot:)
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 943	Posted - 2015.01.31 20:50:48 - [194] - Quote d026 wrote: Tsukino Stareine wrote: d026 wrote: Orlacc wrote: You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game. i was running hacking sites back when they were introduced and had npc's in them. the bigger sites needed a proper tank to beat the waves if i remember right. tbh i much more preferred to kill some rats as the minigame than the hacking we have now. with rats in the plex you can't just ******* fly in hostile 0.0 with a frig costing you less than a couple million isk. you had to bring at least a real ship which could be blown up. right now we have a exploration system with very little risk and big rewards coupled with a very annoying minigame. there is risk involved, you have to sit uncloaked while hacking which allows people to attack you. I don't think you understand what risk means, fitting up an expensive ship that can tank rats while you hack is NOT risk. It's just a skill barrier. The risk is losing a frigate. This is quite crazy considering you can make 100,s of millions/h in 0.0 with almost minimal risk loosing ur pity frig. Back in the days to do a hacking site u needed at least something like a t2 cruiser to fight off the rats first. This makes the risk reward way more proportional. For example if you want to go run a ded plex in 0.0 you never gonna make it in a frigate. So heavily buff 0.0 exploration sites. Even in highec. To achieve a 100mil/h u gonna fly a rattlesnake or a golem both worth around a billion. Now you really wanna tel me u can earn the same amount in a frig? No way mate bring ur golem to 0.0. But u probably don't have the balls to do such a thing because u think decloaking for 15 seconds while doing a can is already to dangerous You're still not understanding. Removing the minigame and adding rats just adds a skill barrier and means new players have absolutely ZERO chance of doing null/w-space exploration. Having the minigame and no rats means that everyone is on even ground (more or less) and it depends on your skill with the game on how much risk is involved. A veteran 10 year player can just as easily use a T1 exploration frigate and be just as effective at doing data/relics and that's the point of the whole thing.
d026 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 5	Posted - 2015.02.01 15:39:26 - [195] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: d026 wrote: Tsukino Stareine wrote: d026 wrote: Orlacc wrote: You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game. i was running hacking sites back when they were introduced and had npc's in them. the bigger sites needed a proper tank to beat the waves if i remember right. tbh i much more preferred to kill some rats as the minigame than the hacking we have now. with rats in the plex you can't just ******* fly in hostile 0.0 with a frig costing you less than a couple million isk. you had to bring at least a real ship which could be blown up. right now we have a exploration system with very little risk and big rewards coupled with a very annoying minigame. there is risk involved, you have to sit uncloaked while hacking which allows people to attack you. I don't think you understand what risk means, fitting up an expensive ship that can tank rats while you hack is NOT risk. It's just a skill barrier. The risk is losing a frigate. This is quite crazy considering you can make 100,s of millions/h in 0.0 with almost minimal risk loosing ur pity frig. Back in the days to do a hacking site u needed at least something like a t2 cruiser to fight off the rats first. This makes the risk reward way more proportional. For example if you want to go run a ded plex in 0.0 you never gonna make it in a frigate. So heavily buff 0.0 exploration sites. Even in highec. To achieve a 100mil/h u gonna fly a rattlesnake or a golem both worth around a billion. Now you really wanna tel me u can earn the same amount in a frig? No way mate bring ur golem to 0.0. But u probably don't have the balls to do such a thing because u think decloaking for 15 seconds while doing a can is already to dangerous You're still not understanding. Removing the minigame and adding rats just adds a skill barrier and means new players have absolutely ZERO chance of doing null/w-space exploration. Having the minigame and no rats means that everyone is on even ground (more or less) and it depends on your skill with the game on how much risk is involved. A veteran 10 year player can just as easily use a T1 exploration frigate and be just as effective at doing data/relics and that's the point of the whole thing. i'm not really sure why a noob should be able to do any 0.0 sites at all. if you freshly start the game you work your way up.
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 947	Posted - 2015.02.01 16:05:16 - [196] - Quote As with any part of the game, if you specialise in it you will be good at it in quite a short amount of time. Exploration obviously has a sp cap, one that can be reached very quickly. If you add another layer of required sp on top of that, it's no longer exploration and more site running.
Quattras Peione Gentlemen of Fortune. 53	Posted - 2015.02.01 22:00:08 - [197] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: As with any part of the game, if you specialise in it you will be good at it in quite a short amount of time. Exploration obviously has a sp cap, one that can be reached very quickly. If you add another layer of required sp on top of that, it's no longer exploration and more site running. Precisely. This is why there are Sleeper hacking sites that do have rats, and which can yield far greater reward if you can do both. Also, the payout rate that some of you are quoting is ridiculous. Hundreds of millions per hour doing null explo in a frigate? As a pilot who regularly does this, I'm calling shenanigans. If I run sites for a solid three or four hours, I just might come home a hundred million richer. Maybe. And that's not accounting for travel time before and after my expedition. This while flying a well-kitted Stratios with solid hacking and scanning skills.
marly cortez Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance 67	Posted - 2015.02.04 22:40:04 - [198] - Quote Quattras Peione wrote: Tsukino Stareine wrote: As with any part of the game, if you specialise in it you will be good at it in quite a short amount of time. Exploration obviously has a sp cap, one that can be reached very quickly. If you add another layer of required sp on top of that, it's no longer exploration and more site running. Precisely. This is why there are Sleeper hacking sites that do have rats, and which can yield far greater reward if you can do both. Also, the payout rate that some of you are quoting is ridiculous. Hundreds of millions per hour doing null explo in a frigate? As a pilot who regularly does this, I'm calling shenanigans. If I run sites for a solid three or four hours, I just might come home a hundred million richer. Maybe. And that's not accounting for travel time before and after my expedition. This while flying a well-kitted Stratios with solid hacking and scanning skills. Agreed, hours of time invested for very little return, but this silly Pac-Man game is actually more profitable per hour currently than Plexing were once it used to be a very profitable time invested pursuit, now it is to be quite honest a pitiful occupation in Null Sec, I can well understand now why so many of my Corp and Alliance members actually gave up on the idea. Considering the trail of Nerf's CCP have inflicted on players this past few years, Spun off as improvements to the game, the Devs seem to have overlooked the fact that currently many players would rather sit in station and spin then even consider scanning as a form of ISK/Content generation, partly due to the poor rewards but in the main due to the Pac-Man game, a soul destroying occupation when simply by using a cargo scanner you already know that all this idiotic clicking is going to get you very little in the end even if you crack the can. This Dev indicates that the mini game was not as designed, I would offer that it is in fact totally counter productive when compared to the original method used in scanning, the rewards often bear no relation to the time invested and even the so called high end finds are poor when there is no market outlet other than contracts for those unwilling to engage in that other CCP nerf nightmare manufacturing. As a CeO and a long term permanent resident of Null Sec space, if this is the quality of the ideas aimed at enticing players out of Empire space my I suggest that whatever you guys are smoking you should reconsider, it is not doing you any good, gaining you no brownie points and certainly not increasing the game interest and content for players by putting every impediment you can dream up in there way, EVE was never meant to be the haunt of the brainless, please stop treating players as if they were.
Orlacc 771	Posted - 2015.02.05 02:51:37 - [199] - Quote You all understand that more high-end loot would make the price of said loot drop until it is no longer high end...right? "Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 215	Posted - 2015.02.05 07:30:21 - [200] - Quote marly cortez wrote: Agreed, hours of time invested for very little return, but this silly Pac-Man game is actually more profitable per hour currently than Plexing were once it used to be a very profitable time invested pursuit, now it is to be quite honest a pitiful occupation in Null Sec, I can well understand now why so many of my Corp and Alliance members actually gave up on the idea. Considering the trail of Nerf's CCP have inflicted on players this past few years, Spun off as improvements to the game, the Devs seem to have overlooked the fact that currently many players would rather sit in station and spin then even consider scanning as a form of ISK/Content generation, partly due to the poor rewards but in the main due to the Pac-Man game, a soul destroying occupation when simply by using a cargo scanner you already know that all this idiotic clicking is going to get you very little in the end even if you crack the can. This Dev indicates that the mini game was not as designed, I would offer that it is in fact totally counter productive when compared to the original method used in scanning, the rewards often bear no relation to the time invested and even the so called high end finds are poor when there is no market outlet other than contracts for those unwilling to engage in that other CCP nerf nightmare manufacturing. As a CeO and a long term permanent resident of Null Sec space, if this is the quality of the ideas aimed at enticing players out of Empire space my I suggest that whatever you guys are smoking you should reconsider, it is not doing you any good, gaining you no brownie points and certainly not increasing the game interest and content for players by putting every impediment you can dream up in there way, EVE was never meant to be the haunt of the brainless, please stop treating players as if they were. So: you don't like the hacking mechanics, then there is something about income is too good, then something about income is too small, cargo scanning ability whine (i can't decide about what you whining with cargo scanning, ability to hack shiny cans and decrese the level of hacking or whining about cherrypicking), then something about permanent residents of nullsec not falling into this awfull mechanism, then something about smoking, eating brown cake?, and... i lost it... So you want back to sit and watch hacking module are doing hacking noise and hacking by itself? in the name of progress? "...genre is a definition, the definition in itself must have boundaries, the boundaries act as barriers, and the barriers are like walls, like the walls of a prisonn++..." The Good, The Bad and The Bantam

PhantomMajor High Flyers The Kadeshi 18	Posted - 2015.02.05 11:27:21 - [201] - Quote I recently returned to scanning again and i missed the "spew of cans" thank god. However i have done several data sites in null sec and i view them as a total waste of time and effort, the loot that i was able to retrieve from one site was barely 2 milliion isk in value. Being rusty it took me ten minutes to scan the site down, ( have improved on that since then) followed by another ten minutes trying to figure out the "mini-game", all of this was done in "safe" null sec which gave me the advantage on numerous levels. I do feel if i was a freelance then flying through hostile null sec to scan down sites which pay out so little and leave you vulnerable to attack simply isn't worth the effort, especially with the stupid mini-game check hinders you from taking defensive action to avoid being killed...simply put the old way was far superior. In short my twenty minutes scanning and mini-gaming netted me around 2 million isk. If i rat in a carrier and do a sanctum which takes a similar amount of time i earn 30 million in bounties another 8-9 million in rat loot and possibly 5-6 million in salvage. scanning and mini-games are a waste of time if you want to earn cash fast, even in isk pile that null sec is reported to be!
Orlacc 771	Posted - 2015.02.05 13:01:03 - [202] - Quote PhantomMajor wrote: I recently returned to scanning again and i missed the "spew of cans" thank god. However i have done several data sites in null sec and i view them as a total waste of time and effort, the loot that i was able to retrieve from one site was barely 2 milliion isk in value. Being rusty it took me ten minutes to scan the site down, ( have improved on that since then) followed by another ten minutes trying to figure out the "mini-game", all of this was done in "safe" null sec which gave me the advantage on numerous levels. I do feel if i was a freelance then flying through hostile null sec to scan down sites which pay out so little and leave you vulnerable to attack simply isn't worth the effort, especially with the stupid mini-game check hinders you from taking defensive action to avoid being killed...simply put the old way was far superior. In short my twenty minutes scanning and mini-gaming netted me around 2 million isk. If i rat in a carrier and do a sanctum which takes a similar amount of time i earn 30 million in bounties another 8-9 million in rat loot and possibly 5-6 million in salvage. scanning and mini-games are a waste of time if you want to earn cash fast, even in isk pile that null sec is reported to be! Maybe you are not really that good at it. I do fine. "Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 233	Posted - 2015.02.05 15:09:35 - [203] - Quote PhantomMajor wrote: If i rat in a carrier and do a sanctum which takes a similar amount of time i earn 30 million in bounties another 8-9 million in rat loot and possibly 5-6 million in salvage. Isn't ratting in a carrier expected to earn more IPH than data/relic exploration?
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 7922	Posted - 2015.02.05 18:19:46 - [204] - Quote Shiloh Templeton wrote: PhantomMajor wrote: If i rat in a carrier and do a sanctum which takes a similar amount of time i earn 30 million in bounties another 8-9 million in rat loot and possibly 5-6 million in salvage. Isn't ratting in a carrier expected to earn more IPH than data/relic exploration? Ratting in a carrier can end in carrier destruction, in opposition to flying anathema or astero and possible destruction of those vessels, its a lot of isk lost then. Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 123	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:56:27 - [205] - Quote Less people doing exploration and more people rat in carriers ... sounds like a win-win situation ... for certain play styles. I'm my own NPC alt.
PhantomMajor High Flyers The Kadeshi 18	Posted - 2015.02.05 21:50:28 - [206] - Quote Bagrat Skalski wrote: Shiloh Templeton wrote: PhantomMajor wrote: If i rat in a carrier and do a sanctum which takes a similar amount of time i earn 30 million in bounties another 8-9 million in rat loot and possibly 5-6 million in salvage. Isn't ratting in a carrier expected to earn more IPH than data/relic exploration? Ratting in a carrier can end in carrier destruction, in opposition to flying anathema or astero and possible destruction of those vessels, its a lot of isk lost then. Sure ratting in a carrier can end badly but only if you are a ******* idiot and don't pay attention to local and friendly intel channels or if you drop a dozen sentries and go afk to cook dinner. If the rewards are poor for null sec exploration then why bother, it's certainly not for the fun of the stupid mini-game
Orlacc 772	Posted - 2015.02.05 22:26:35 - [207] - Quote The game is fine. Some folks are good at exploration and some are not. Heck I don't even own a carrier. I would probably get blown up! "Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Turmeric Jones Guardians of the Gate 1	Posted - 2015.02.06 22:02:58 - [208] - Quote My issue with the hacking minigame is that it is so freaking random. Besides loot drops(which should be random!), invention and wrecking shots, nothing else in eve is random. 99% of the game comes down to pure player skill and player decisions. That is what makes eve great, not randomness. Even those handful of things which are random are not as insanely frustrating as the randomness of the hacking game. ex: http://i.imgur.com/DipklHz.png ^ WTF IS THAT. It is not satisfying, it is b*s*. And the can right before the one linked, I cleared the entire field except for half a dozen subsystems, with no way to know which one was next to the core. IF the devs are going to leave the game, the least they could do is leave the numbers in cleared spots instead of having them vanish when you click on the next one.
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 966	Posted - 2015.02.06 22:17:50 - [209] - Quote Turmeric Jones wrote: My issue with the hacking minigame is that it is so freaking random. Besides loot drops(which should be random!), invention and wrecking shots, nothing else in eve is random. 99% of the game comes down to pure player skill and player decisions. That is what makes eve great, not randomness. Even those handful of things which are random are not as insanely frustrating as the randomness of the hacking game. ex: http://i.imgur.com/DipklHz.png ^ WTF IS THAT. It is not satisfying, it is b*s*. And the can right before the one linked, I cleared the entire field except for half a dozen subsystems, with no way to know which one was next to the core. IF the devs are going to leave the game, the least they could do is leave the numbers in cleared spots instead of having them vanish when you click on the next one. sounds like you don't know how to play minesweeper
Vladof Alduin TR Tax Evasion 5	Posted - 2015.02.07 00:57:23 - [210] - Quote I agree with op, if im not mistaken you are the commander of the ship you use in-game, so you give orders to do stuff like selecting a target and giving orders to fire your weapons. You don't manually aim your guns, manually reload them between each shot or track your targets like you do in arcade games. Then why would you do the hacking manually? It's like a ship with 100 man crew gets near a container and commander says: "brb gonna hack some ****" and people watch him while clicks on stuff on his command screen... Add an option to hack using "brute force" which dedicates some of your ship's systems to hacking so you can't use them while doing this. Also add another option to do hacking manually but add some extra system cores to spawn a little more reward for the player. In the end it will all about Risk / Reward. You either play safe but get low reward, or take some risk and focus somewhere else to get more reward. Also, i have no idea what CCP is planning about all these Sleeper/Jove/Sansha stuff but it might be interesting to be able to network different ships to do the "brute force hacking" stuff i mentioned earlier. Finding some ancient stuff about Sleeper/Jove/Sansha, and analyzing them in space while "bad guys" try to intervene with your operations, multiple ships networked to each other would be a very different kind of gameplay element like "player made stargates" in the prophecy trailer.

Baggo Hammers 298	Posted - 2015.02.07 02:12:38 - [211] - Quote Turmeric Jones wrote: My issue with the hacking minigame is that it is so freaking random. Besides loot drops(which should be random!), invention and wrecking shots, nothing else in eve is random. 99% of the game comes down to pure player skill and player decisions. . Nothing is random now? Cool! So the hacking game should be the same each time? Great idea you will do well. If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 219	Posted - 2015.02.07 09:57:35 - [212] - Quote Turmeric Jones wrote: And the can right before the one linked, I cleared the entire field except for half a dozen subsystems, with no way to know which one was next to the core. Numbers that appears when you click on node are there for a reason, the lower the number the closer you are to system core, data caches and utility subsystems. I'm totaly agree there should be option for non hackers but with adequate penalty. "...genre is a definition, the definition in itself must have boundaries, the boundaries act as barriers, and the barriers are like walls, like the walls of a prisonn++..." The Good, The Bad and The Bantam
Turmeric Jones Guardians of the Gate 1	Posted - 2015.02.09 03:20:05 - [213] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: sounds like you don't know how to play minesweeper Minesweeper leaves the numbers brah.
Baggo Hammers 299	Posted - 2015.02.09 03:37:53 - [214] - Quote Numbers are for those who move their lips when they read. If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1372	Posted - 2015.02.09 03:47:02 - [215] - Quote You can always take an Echelon - 130/40 with skills at 5, no need for rigs.
Turmeric Jones Guardians of the Gate 1	Posted - 2015.02.09 03:47:13 - [216] - Quote In the interest in having an actual conversation, please tell me how much of eve is random besides what I listed. I know how to play the minesweeper aspect, it doesn't change a single part of what I said.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 219	Posted - 2015.02.09 09:45:02 - [217] - Quote Turmeric Jones wrote: ^ WTF IS THAT. It is not satisfying, it is b*s*. And the can right before the one linked, I cleared the entire field except for half a dozen subsystems, with no way to know which one was next to the core. System cores, are for the most cases, at the opposed edge of the grid most of the time. I had same location as you few times (even better, first node after starting area), it's a flaw in grids starting "in the middle" and not on the edge. It's also hardest ones if SC is not few first nodes after start. As for randomnes, even minesweeper have some of it. "...genre is a definition, the definition in itself must have boundaries, the boundaries act as barriers, and the barriers are like walls, like the walls of a prisonn++..." The Good, The Bad and The Bantam
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 233	Posted - 2015.02.09 13:54:20 - [218] - Quote Turmeric Jones wrote: In the interest in having an actual conversation, please tell me how much of eve is random besides what I listed. I know how to play the minesweeper aspect, it doesn't change a single part of what I said. Would Eve be better if there was more randomness? The way rats spawn in Lvl 4 missions, for example.
Turmeric Jones Guardians of the Gate 2	Posted - 2015.02.09 16:35:17 - [219] - Quote Shiloh Templeton wrote: Turmeric Jones wrote: In the interest in having an actual conversation, please tell me how much of eve is random besides what I listed. I know how to play the minesweeper aspect, it doesn't change a single part of what I said. Would Eve be better if there was more randomness? The way rats spawn in Lvl 4 missions, for example. Absolutely not. Randomness despite player decision = frustration is my entire point.
Spugg Galdon APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front 610	Posted - 2015.02.10 09:38:33 - [220] - Quote I'm not sure why you think that you should be "all powerful" when it comes to hacking as a capsuleer. You talk about how this is the future and you should just be able to upload the virus and BAM! you're in. But if this is the future then surely the anti-hacking software would have also advanced to be near impossible to hack. Which is why you have to manually hack through the nodes, which now actually tell you which way to go with the numbers and stuff. So what if the mini game takes up some of your time? Isn't that the idea? Also, when you actually make it to the top end of hacking, even though I have perfect skills, loads of experience and best equipment going. Damn! some of those hacks are challenging. You know, in the good way. Like I feel I've actually earned the loot instead of being a benefits bum and expecting everything to be just handed to me because you deserve it I also enjoy the randomness of the hacks. I don't want to hack the same system over and over again. Then it would be tedious. I can't wait for the mini game to get more features too. These multi core and multi level hacks sound like really good fun. Bring it on.

Bagatur I School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 45	Posted - 2015.02.10 16:00:29 - [221] - Quote EVE is a sandbox, isnt it? you can do whatever you want to do. also, you dont have to do what you dont feel like doing. what is all the whining about?
Baggo Hammers 312	Posted - 2015.02.10 17:19:21 - [222] - Quote Not everyone hacks in high-sec like many of the whiners appear to. The hacking is to render you somewhat vulnerable to attack. Ya know PvP. If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 231	Posted - 2015.02.10 21:56:42 - [223] - Quote Baggo Hammers wrote: Not everyone hacks in high-sec like many of the whiners appear to. The hacking is to render you somewhat vulnerable to attack. Ya know PvP. Shhh. The grid in hisec is small compared to nullsec. Do not scare the prey... There is cargo scanner to avoid unecessary hacking, not every can must be hacked. "...genre is a definition, the definition in itself must have boundaries, the boundaries act as barriers, and the barriers are like walls, like the walls of a prisonn++..." The Good, The Bad and The Bantam
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 369	Posted - 2015.02.17 09:24:59 - [224] - Quote I am not a fan of the hacking minigame either but I know a lot of people seem to like it so if more people like it than don't it seems like it should stay. I mean you can make improvements but if you are in the minority don't expect the devs to change it just to suit you. One thing that I can say seems a bit silly is that the hacking mini game and the archaeology minigame are the exact same thing. I'd love to see archaeology become something different so there was some choice or variance. If not then why not just drop one of the skills and make the other mod work in both situations and refund the SP. I mean at least with say lazors versus projectiles there are some differences and you have to pick and choose when, where and how you use each. With hacking and archaeology both the mods look almost the same and the mechanics are nearly identical.
Tamtaman Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.02.19 20:35:41 - [225] - Quote The game is alright, only too much clicking. 1. Fewer clicks ( or most hackers will get carpal tunnel) 2. More cerebral .... its pretty dull and boring as it is. 3. less laggy.. sometimes my whole Eve client gets REALLY slow when i do too many of those ( mem leak perhaps? )
Dinassan Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.02.28 07:18:01 - [226] - Quote The mini-game is extremely tedious and mind-numbing after just a few cans let alone trying to do it for a few hours. The people that actually like this "game" are only doing one or two sites at a time or they are simple minded. As for the people saying they are hacking cans in 15 seconds, I don't believe you are opening cans in null-sec in that amount of time. If that was the case it would be somewhat tolerable, but it still wouldn't be fun. I'm not looking for an I win button, I don't mind failing hacks, I don't mind the can blowing up in my face with millions of isk worth of loot in it as long as it's fun. This is not fun, it's on the complete opposite end of the spectrum from fun, it's monotonous, it's boring, it's down right asinine. Exploration itself is great, I love sneaking around in w-space, and null-sec, trying to stay alive because it's fun. This mini-game, it's not fun. NOT FUN!
Odeva Pawen Aideron Robotics 31	Posted - 2015.02.28 08:02:43 - [227] - Quote Anyone else notice that the core seems to be in more random places now? Before, it was that the core would usually be on the opposite side of the start, but now, that's not guaranteed. Sabriz For CSMX!
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 149	Posted - 2015.02.28 08:51:53 - [228] - Quote Tamtaman wrote: 3. less laggy.. sometimes my whole Eve client gets REALLY slow when i do too many of those ( mem leak perhaps? ) Noticed lag too, after the patch with the numbers, sometimes the mini-game can't keep up with me clicking the nodes. Sometimes it takes more than 2s to reveal an utility node. Never had lag before that time with the mini-game. I'm my own NPC alt.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 231	Posted - 2015.02.28 13:42:52 - [229] - Quote Dinassan wrote: As for the people saying they are hacking cans in 15 seconds, I don't believe you are opening cans in null-sec in that amount of time It more or less the amount of time i hack single can in null, 15 to 20 seconds. Sometimes faster. You don't have to believe me. "...genre is a definition, the definition in itself must have boundaries, the boundaries act as barriers, and the barriers are like walls, like the walls of a prisonn++..." The Good, The Bad and The Bantam
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 1044	Posted - 2015.02.28 15:36:20 - [230] - Quote it can vary but if the can isn't trolling me 15 seconds is a fair guesstimate of average can success.

Poena Loveless Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers. 2	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:35:25 - [231] - Quote I only do c5/null cans. Perfect skills takes less than a couple minutes. I like it. Not exactly for the fun of the mini game but the fact it is a distraction that creates pvp opportunities.
Orlacc 831	Posted - 2015.03.06 15:37:09 - [232] - Quote No null cans in a C5 "Measure Twice, Cut Once."


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.