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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:01:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Sarmaul The MWD cap bonus is one of the few bonuses that are added, not multiplied, so +25% would completely cancel it out.
I'm not sure what you're saying, but a Thorax or Deimos fitted with a MWD and cruiser 5 recieves a 6.75% cap penalty. The most accurate phrasing of the MWD bonus is "5% bonus to capacitor amount when a MWD is fitted" this is in stark contrast to something along the lines of "20% reduction in capacitor penalty of a MWD when fitted". That would multiply .25*(1-.2*level) resulting in no difference in capacitor with level5. (With that bonus, the resulting capacitor amount multiplier would be 1.00-(.25*(1-.2*level)))
Hopefully I didn't confuse things further! --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:06:00 -
[122]
Ok I was wrong :)
Someone a while back said that the bonuses negate each other and that a Vindi would end up with an extra 25% cap with the MWD fitted. Seeing as no minny ships have the same bonus I couldn't test it.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
Gierling
Gallente Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:06:00 -
[123]
Sarmaul was speaking of the cpacitor capacity bonus which I recommended as a replacement for the MWD cap bonus on all ships.
NOT the existing cap reduction for MWD bonus on the thorax.
IF we replaced the MWD Cap bonus with a straight cap bonus it would completely cancel out the the Effects of an MWD at level 5, as well as benefit the ship while there is no MWD fitted.
I think its a way to give the Hype a bonus that hels it MWD into range more effectively, AND a tanking bonus at the same time.
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:20:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Gierling Sarmaul was speaking of the cpacitor capacity bonus which I recommended as a replacement for the MWD cap bonus on all ships.
No, I was speaking of the current system :)
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
Hellspawn01
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:21:00 -
[125]
I actually get more cap on my vindi with a mwd fitted atm.
Ship lovers click here |
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:28:00 -
[126]
hmm... can I ask what kind of damage would the Hyperion do with a RoF and a dmg bonus? -------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:30:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Grimpak hmm... can I ask what kind of damage would the Hyperion do with a RoF and a dmg bonus?
I'd imagine that it'd look something like that double damage bonus Abaddon graph. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:38:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Grimpak hmm... can I ask what kind of damage would the Hyperion do with a RoF and a dmg bonus?
I'd imagine that it'd look something like that double damage bonus Abaddon graph.
counterbalanced by the fact that blasters are not that cap-friendly and extreme short range of the blasters? -------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:51:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 02/08/2006 16:51:20
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Grimpak hmm... can I ask what kind of damage would the Hyperion do with a RoF and a dmg bonus?
I'd imagine that it'd look something like that double damage bonus Abaddon graph.
counterbalanced by the fact that blasters are not that cap-friendly and extreme short range of the blasters?
I'm just using the defaults from NB's most recent spread sheet, so forgive me if I totally screwed this spreadsheet up: graph
edit: I suppose its kinda dumb to use void for that graph there, but its pretty impressive isn't it? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Olea Avenger
Gallente GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:52:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Olea Avenger on 02/08/2006 16:52:17 The biggest problem I see with the Hyperion is that it is only good for a close range solo ganking at best. The Dominix fits that roll already even if its grid is a bit small. For range, the Megathron works quite nicely in that roll, even if it will probably be outclassed by the Rokh eventually.
I've heard maybe using it for small gang PVP is best. However, in my experience, even in ~20 vs ~20 gang fights, it is next to impossible to control a blaster boat. Especially if this is a normal 0.0 system. From my experience with the Thorax, even in small fleet warfare, you will have a tough time making use of a blasterboat. You will already be fighting lag on your modules and getting in range. Much of the time while your trying to get into this range, you'll be getting hit already.
In large scale fleet ops that have become central to POS warfare, the lag becomes even more magnified and a blaster boat is useless. You'll never get in range and get the modules you need to come on in time to do what you want. Of course, POS warfare is not fun.
If you don't consider 20 people a small gang, well I've participated in fleet ops with over 100 people on each side. I also tend to find anything less then 10 is just a gank squad, and they will run at the first chance of anything that might stand up to a decent change of fighting them.
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Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.02 17:15:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Hllaxiu Edited by: Hllaxiu on 02/08/2006 16:51:20
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Grimpak hmm... can I ask what kind of damage would the Hyperion do with a RoF and a dmg bonus?
I'd imagine that it'd look something like that double damage bonus Abaddon graph.
counterbalanced by the fact that blasters are not that cap-friendly and extreme short range of the blasters?
I'm just using the defaults from NB's most recent spread sheet, so forgive me if I totally screwed this spreadsheet up: graph
edit: I suppose its kinda dumb to use void for that graph there, but its pretty impressive isn't it?
2 words:
holy **** -------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Pattern Clarc
Dark Destiny Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.02 23:59:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
I'm just using the defaults from NB's most recent spread sheet, so forgive me if I totally screwed this spreadsheet up: graph
edit: I suppose its kinda dumb to use void for that graph there, but its pretty impressive isn't it?
holy mother of god
If it was just a pure gank ship, even with no speed bonuses or nothing, i'd be happy. :O
Roden Shipyards? MWD cap penalty? |
Altai Saker
Omniscient Order Verisum Family
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Posted - 2006.08.03 02:11:00 -
[133]
uhhh the double damage bonus is stupid tbh.
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Depko
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Posted - 2006.08.03 09:22:00 -
[134]
If you give Caldari pilot a Megathron equivalent, then I would like to see a Raven equivalent for Gallente. Make ship with 8x missiles, and an armor resitance . caldari tier 3 BS has a shiled resistance bous if i remember correctly.
mWarp bonuses are useless by my opinion, unless you allow mWarp in deadspace missions. Can caldari BC use resistance bonuses only in normal space, can caldari ships use different damage types in normal space only, can caldari passive shield tank in normal space only ? do have other races skill raven to do lvl4 missions solo and fast ? why shouldnt caldari skill megathron if they want be snipers then ? why are the developers so caldari biased ?
I think developers are making the life for Caladaris as easy as they can, but not so mauch for others. |
Akiman
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Posted - 2006.08.03 10:18:00 -
[135]
%25 bonus at lvl 5...its removing the penalty... İTS NOT A BONUS İMO ...just removing the penalty...
but on the other hand bs has large cap by gettin removing the penalty it gets a good cap tho i dont think %5 is a good bonus if devs make it % 10 it'll be look like vindicator.me thinks removing mass ddition is FUN tho itll blow every fight imo.
Another thing if u get a penalty to the locking range i think devs must give a bonus to her locking speed! for 1 downside there must be a 1 upside. and it'll help ship to do more dps by locking first. And yea there must be a tracking bonus tho if devs should do that it'll look like mega... Its a messed up situation imo. and i dont want a dampener bs .There is lachesis with 7 med slots.She can do damp job excellent. + by doing 6 lows? gallente do armor tanking.With 6 lows your tanking will not be good like mega... or cant do a good gank setup due to low low slots(where will we fit damage mods? plus a little tanking.) i dont want to shield tank a gallente ship they are not meant to
but maybe we can fit 2 webs and forget the %5 tracking bonus? Hype has good mid slots but web is 10k... another down side... and LOL decreased drone bay? mega has long targeting range so mega is still usable so why decrease? heavy drones for close range dammit! couse they are DAMN slowww ...fix the drone speed lol ;)
good thing is Tux said about huge cap which is good(couse we had a pain bout that hybrid cap drain) , light weight and speed so itll accelerate faster :) i love that .
i say %7.5 rep or brand new bonus...liiike %5 velocity :P oorr... Rof...
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KilROCK
Minmatar Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.03 10:22:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: Hllaxiu
I'm just using the defaults from NB's most recent spread sheet, so forgive me if I totally screwed this spreadsheet up: graph
edit: I suppose its kinda dumb to use void for that graph there, but its pretty impressive isn't it?
holy mother of god
If it was just a pure gank ship, even with no speed bonuses or nothing, i'd be happy. :O
Hey, I think that's a fine ship! It might make the megathron obsolete with blasters when you have this much firepower coming out of your guns on the Hyperion but isn't that what everyone wants to see when it concerns blasters?
Maybe with a double damage bonus, they'll finally look and act like the "most powerful gun in the game", yes the description of the guns.
with over 1400 - 1600 DPS coming out of the guns, i wouldn't even care if the dronebay on it was 75m3.
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Akiman
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Posted - 2006.08.03 10:37:00 -
[137]
They wont do domething like this tho imo if u look at the graph at 15k hyperion does the same damage of abaddon..so its reasonable... and this graph says: DONT GET CLOSE TO A BLASTER SHİP!!! which is correct...
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Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.03 10:51:00 -
[138]
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: Hllaxiu
I'm just using the defaults from NB's most recent spread sheet, so forgive me if I totally screwed this spreadsheet up: graph
edit: I suppose its kinda dumb to use void for that graph there, but its pretty impressive isn't it?
holy mother of god
If it was just a pure gank ship, even with no speed bonuses or nothing, i'd be happy. :O
Hey, I think that's a fine ship! It might make the megathron obsolete with blasters when you have this much firepower coming out of your guns on the Hyperion but isn't that what everyone wants to see when it concerns blasters?
Maybe with a double damage bonus, they'll finally look and act like the "most powerful gun in the game", yes the description of the guns.
with over 1400 - 1600 DPS coming out of the guns, i wouldn't even care if the dronebay on it was 75m3.
exactly.
and if the slot layout goes as it is (8-6-6), it is rather balanced if you think
armor tanking with 6 lows, even if you don't try to cram dmg mods (honestly, who needs dmg mods with that firepower?) is a bit more limited than the megathron but doable. that leaves the 6 meds to play with. 1 mwd, 2 20km'ers, 2 webs, 1 injector. heck if you feel brave enough even fit 2 7,5km'ers instead the 20km ones or the injector for some sort of Ewar.
ion blasters in highs so that you can get a bit more tracking and maybe light drones or even med target painter drones to help out with the tracking (do they work good?).
the ship looks even overpowered now but then it comes to this:
with a 40 to 50km targeting range and considering that beyond 15km the guns hit for crap, even neutrons, you can say that yes, the hyperion hits ****in' hard, but like all blasterboats it needs to get close to even hit.
btw, giergling came up with an interesting problem in another thread: can anyone give a graphic of the hyperion with dual 250's in gank mode? -------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2006.08.03 10:55:00 -
[139]
Dual damage looks juicy, but you have to remember that if it only has 6 lows, it has to sacrifice in either tanking or damage mods. And a lot of damage with a lesser tank is fine. So if you want that ~1500 DPS (with max skills mind you), you'll have to live with a laughable 3 slot tank. ---
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KilROCK
Minmatar Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.03 10:58:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Jin Entres Dual damage looks juicy, but you have to remember that if it only has 6 lows, it has to sacrifice in either tanking or damage mods. And a lot of damage with a lesser tank is fine. So if you want that ~1500 DPS (with max skills mind you), you'll have to live with a laughable 3 slot tank.
I wouldn't do a 8/6/6 with dual damage bonus. But hey, a light shield tank + mwd, with 4 mag stab, misc module + damage control = quite sexy with a tackler.
Sounds like a lachesis, with a shield tank and neutrons...
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Bazman
Caldari The Establishment
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:07:00 -
[141]
Ewww, Shield tanked blaster boat :P
Could work I suppose, but damn, talk about compounding your cap problems :P An 8/6/6 layout, I would say, is not the best layout for a ship that's been stated to be a blasterboat 8/5/7 would be more suited. But again, I'm going to reserve judgement until I can see what I can do with it, no matter what slot setup it gets -----
Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
I am a |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:09:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Sarmaul on 03/08/2006 11:08:56 Maybe you should campain for an 8/7/4-5 layout seeing as Minny aren't allowed it :/
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:10:00 -
[143]
oh and I totally forgot to post this:
adding a RoF bonus will increase the blaster's cap usage, wich is a bit high already. -------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:11:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Akiman They wont do domething like this tho imo if u look at the graph at 15k hyperion does the same damage of abaddon..so its reasonable... and this graph says: DONT GET CLOSE TO A BLASTER SHİP!!! which is correct...
Thats mighty fine advice, but considering its going to be faster than any other battleship (except perhaps the Tempest), that will be pretty hard advice to follow.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:22:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Sarmaul on 03/08/2006 11:26:45 Edited by: Sarmaul on 03/08/2006 11:26:17 Ion II x 8
MWD 20km x 1-2 Random ewar x 0-1 Web x 2 Cap Booster
Large Rep x 2 EANM II x 2 Internal DC x 1 Magfield II x 1
Wouldn't be a bad little ship (assuming it got 25% rof and 25% damage and could actually fit the above setup).
edit: fixed the amount of reps
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
Bazman
Caldari The Establishment
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:24:00 -
[146]
Heres a radical idea
8/4/8 layout
Blasterboats have never been big on mid slots, the way I see it, allowing a blasterboat space to field any sort of Electronic Warfare module other than webbers and scramblers is a very dangerous thing. Verging on overpowered I might add. Call me mad, but I like the fact that when I fly a blaster ship, I know that at conventional combat it is almost unbeatable, but against any EWAR, Capacitor Weapons or a specifically tanked ship etc, I am at an extreme disadvantage. An 8th low would allow you to beef up your tank to a 5 slot setup (assuming 3 Mag Field Stabs, ironically, 8 lows also gives the option to rival the other tier 3 Battleships with their tanking bonus') -----
Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
I am a |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:24:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Sarmaul Ion II x 8
MWD 20km x 1-2 Random ewar x 0-1 Web x 2 Cap Booster
Large Rep x 1 EANM II x 2 Internal DC x 1 Magfield II x 1
Wouldn't be a bad little ship (assuming it got 25% rof and 25% damage and could actually fit the above setup).
You are going for this ship too?
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:25:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 03/08/2006 11:31:22
Originally by: Jin Entres Dual damage looks juicy, but you have to remember that if it only has 6 lows, it has to sacrifice in either tanking or damage mods. And a lot of damage with a lesser tank is fine. So if you want that ~1500 DPS (with max skills mind you), you'll have to live with a laughable 3 slot tank.
8/6/6? I'd fit something like: 8x neutrons/neutrons+ions, mwd, web, x-l sb2, 2x inv2, hvy electrochem, 3x pdus, 3dmg mods, 0-3 tracking mods. PDUs may be bumped up to RCUII or Co-proc 2 as necessary, and may be swapped to tracking enhancers based on performance.
Just need a second guy for tackling - an Arazu would be a good choice as it'd be the warp in point too. Using a Rapier for the covert I could fit a scrambler instead.
As asked for: With 2x250s Now heres the real problem for balance: With Null
(thank you naughty boy for creating such an easy to use excel file) (edit: I should have had the dmg bonus only hyperion using neutrons like the megaT and the double damage hyp) (edit again: correct graphs are linked to) --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:29:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Grimpak on 03/08/2006 11:30:07
Originally by: Hllaxiu Edited by: Hllaxiu on 03/08/2006 11:26:55
Originally by: Jin Entres Dual damage looks juicy, but you have to remember that if it only has 6 lows, it has to sacrifice in either tanking or damage mods. And a lot of damage with a lesser tank is fine. So if you want that ~1500 DPS (with max skills mind you), you'll have to live with a laughable 3 slot tank.
8/6/6? I'd fit something like: 8x neutrons/neutrons+ions, mwd, web, x-l sb2, 2x inv2, hvy electrochem, 3x pdus, 3dmg mods, 0-3 tracking mods. PDUs may be bumped up to RCUII or Co-proc 2 as necessary, and may be swapped to tracking enhancers based on performance.
Just need a second guy for tackling - an Arazu would be a good choice as it'd be the warp in point too. Using a Rapier for the covert I could fit a scrambler instead.
As asked for: With 2x250s Now heres the real problem for balance: With Null
(thank you naughty boy for creating such an easy to use excel file)
with null it still gets outdamage by the geddon at 20 and few km.
...and you posted the same graph twice
edit: and we can come up with the argument that some T2 ammo is overpowered here. -------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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KilROCK
Minmatar Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:31:00 -
[150]
shield tanking isn't exactly gallente, and i don't see why it should be given the choice to EWAR, and shield tank... Unless of course they got screwed somewhere and are mixed with the 'big celestis/lachesis' approach..
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