EVE Search - Hyperion and Blasters

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Hyperion and Blasters

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Levin Cavil Lucid Ambition	Posted - 2006.07.30 07:44:00 - [1] Edited by: Levin Cavil on 30/07/2006 07:50:49 Tuxford says that the Hyperion is a blaster ship and yet it gets a cap bonus... The MWD-Cap bonus is a complete non-bonus. It's bad on the Thorax and it's bad on the Deimos and even the Vindi would be better with another gun bonus. The Megathon is the best blaster ship in the game because it's bonuses are exactly what blasters need. Gallente don't need another blaster ship, the mega does that job perfectly. Instead of the cap bonus an armor rep amt bonus (much like the minmatar shield boost bonus) would be far more beneficial. Notice that the gallente tier 3 is the only one that doesn't get a tank bonus. The problem with blaster boats isn't the ship, it's the guns, it has been for over a year and it will continue to be so until they are actually adressed properly. HINT: more damage, more cap, less range. ---------- <Kayosoni> I'm actually normal
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.07.30 08:03:00 - [2] I agree, except about the fix. The MWD cap penalty for BS sized mwd's should simply be removed. It serves little function on these ships anyway. The reason people don't fit one is in my experience only rarely related to the cap penalty, but much more likely to be related to the high fitting reequirements and the signature penalty. So, simply remove the cap penalty or give battleships a built-in negation bonus for it. Then give the hyperion a tracking bonus or a small web range bonus or something that actually makes it a blasterboat. I really don't see why I'd use a megathron over a hyperion as things stand now for situations where I fit rails. The tracking bonus is nice, but easily compensated for and oftenly not needed anyway when using rails. However, I'm still in doubt as to wether situations involving blasters will actually faovur the hyperion that much. If anything does it's the additional midslots that are the kicker. Fitting 8 blasters is going to be hell anyway, and whatever you do nosses are going to own you anyway, so it comes down to ecm+blasters with injectortank. Wait, that's another domi isn't it ? I think you failed to come up with a good idea for the gallente tbh. Old blog
Levin Cavil Lucid Ambition	Posted - 2006.07.30 08:13:00 - [3] If you give the hyperion a traking bonus its just a better megathron. Instead of trying to make the hyperion a better blaster ship and then expecting the megathron to default to the rail ship why not just make the hyperion a rail ship? Amarr get a gun and tank bonus Caldari get a gun and tank bonus Minmatar get a gun and tank bonus Gallente get a gun bonus and ... cap? Youre gonna have to inject with the hyperion anyway so the extra base cap wont be that much of an advantage, it will be nice but not nearly as nice as a rep bonus. The rep bonus would give the gallente a ship that is more versatile and much more in line with the other tier 3s. The biggest problem with the hyperion as a blaster boat is that the mega is already a blaster boat, it would be like giving the Caldari another missile boat, whats the point? ---------- <Kayosoni> I'm actually normal
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.07.30 08:20:00 - [4] Well, the problem is tha tthe hyperion alreayd looks like a better mega to me. Two more meds, one more gun = win. Like I need that tracking bonus at 160km Not to mention that one good tracking comp already compensates for most of the missing bonus. So yeah, let's cut the crap and redesign the Hyperion to be a medslot heavy allround hybrid ship. One that can use both rails and blasters but is mainly based around a good tank and higher then normal medslots. I'd assume that in that case the megathron would finally get the changes it needs to become a viable blasterboat. As thing stand now, I can only see the hyperion fail harshly or pwn solidly. Either wya there'll only be whining. Old blog
Levin Cavil Lucid Ambition	Posted - 2006.07.30 08:33:00 - [5] I think we can agree that the bonus on the Hyperion needs changed, maybe we can even agree on the rep bonus. Originally by: Rod Blaine I'd assume that in that case the megathron would finally get the changes it needs to become a viable blasterboat. I have to disagree with this statement however. The megathron as a ship is fine, it needs no changes to be viable with blasters. I think the only needed change is to blasters themselves. I think that putting blaster cap use back to where it was before the buff and adding say 10-20% damage would be all that is needed for the disadvnatages to match the advantages of blasters. Beyond that the only issue with the mega is fitting but all ships seem to have a problem with that anyway. ---------- <Kayosoni> I'm actually normal
Hellspawn666 Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.30 08:51:00 - [6] Hmm i think its an interesting idea tbh, alot of people dont fit MWD because it borks any tanking option. This could perhaps open up a tanking/blastership. But its all gonna depend on the PG/CPU and final fittings tbh. Personally i was a little dissapointed with the galante tier 3. I was hoping for a galante ewar but giving it a sensor damp bonus. Then perhaps a tracking disruptor bonus for Amarr, and minmitar with a target painter bonus. Caldari would have to be the odd one out, but they have needed a rail boat for a long time. I think they could of been a little more inventive so we could have somthing that hasnt been seen on BS before to screw around with setups. More support BS in fleets would be nice since that lowers the gank factor in fleets so people dont get instant popped. More room for tactics means more fun.
anotleam	Posted - 2006.07.30 09:04:00 - [7] Edited by: anotleam on 30/07/2006 09:05:21 Originally by: Levin Cavil I think we can agree that the bonus on the Hyperion needs changed, maybe we can even agree on the rep bonus. Originally by: Rod Blaine I'd assume that in that case the megathron would finally get the changes it needs to become a viable blasterboat. I have to disagree with this statement however. The megathron as a ship is fine, it needs no changes to be viable with blasters. I think the only needed change is to blasters themselves. I think that putting blaster cap use back to where it was before the buff and adding say 10-20% damage would be all that is needed for the disadvnatages to match the advantages of blasters. Beyond that the only issue with the mega is fitting but all ships seem to have a problem with that anyway. Blasters are not the only problem. Just look at the megathron stats. It could've been just another tempest or geddon if the race weapon wasnt blasters. And what's that crap of the mwd bonus not being useful? You lose 25% of your cap when you fit one of those things for god's sake, and you HAVE to fit it! With the bonus, you lose a mere 6%. Cap is not important cause you're using capacitor charges? think again lol.You will need more charges, start using em sooner, you lose cap recharge rate too as your cap is smaller but needs the same time to recharge, etc. That, and if the Hyperion cap is big enough, we may be talking about viable blaster fittings without cap injectors (and very good and short-lived ones with em :P) tweack blasters so you dont need a tracking bonus to hit a WEBBED BS first, then see about damage and cap usage.
Luc Boye Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.30 09:28:00 - [8] Originally by: anotleam Cap is not important cause you're using capacitor charges? think again lol. Post with your main lol. -------------------------- MWD Cap Penalty?
Leam Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.30 09:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Luc Boye Originally by: anotleam Cap is not important cause you're using capacitor charges? think again lol. Post with your main lol. <=== my main. Anotleam is always the default and i forget to change it. I dont see why would it matter anyway :P. I take from your quote that you disagree, and dont care losing 25% of your cap? oh please, i dont really feel like starting a math-fest here...
Ithildin Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.30 10:08:00 - [10] Out of interest, how would a 5% reduction of MWD nerfs go? That means both the capacitor and the signature nerf. So that, in effect, a level 5 Hyperion would be able to fit 600% effectiveness afterburners. It's just a thought. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
bldyannoyed Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.30 11:47:00 - [11] I agree with everyone who doesnt think the hyperion will be a better balsterboat than a mega. POINT 1. MWD bonus, Total waste. I fly my blasterthron in full gank mode, with neutrons abd a plate. Cap is immaterial, and as i fire the MWd at most TWICE during an engagement a bonus to it is a waste. POINT 2. No tracking bonus. Tracking at close range is absolutely crucial. Yes the Hype may have an extra turret, but with 37.5% less tracking at lvl 5 i honestly wouldnt be surprised to find it has less real world DPS than a mega. POINT 3. Smaller drone bay. It has been well documented that 5 Tech 2 Heavy drones are worth nearly 500 DPS. The Hype loses that. Personally i dont use them, preffering webber drones, but again, teh Hype wont have that option to it either. Compared to my setup then, the Hypes extra mis is negated by the ned to fit a webber. POINT 4. Lighter. Therefore less structure. A Neutrathron best survival chance its 7500 structure with 58% resists. The Hype presumably will have less structure, and presumably less armour as well. POINT 5. Versatility. It has none. Sorry for the long post
delta2zero	Posted - 2006.07.30 12:08:00 - [12] Quote: POINT 4. Lighter. Therefore less structure. A Neutrathron best survival chance its 7500 structure with 58% resists. The Hype presumably will have less structure, and presumably less armour as well. dont forget that beeing lighter makes it faster! that 15ms is going to make a world of difference! now us gallenete can have the massive imbalanced speed minmatar bs pilots have grown used to as if gallenete would make a blasterboat , what is it suposed to counter? surely if gallenete hate the caldari and vice versa they would make ships to counter each others. now the caldari have an uber sniper ship to counter the sniping mega. so gallente get the hyperion to counter what? all the gallente people specialised in rails are going to be training caldari BS skills if they havent got them allready why doesnt the hyperion just get an MWD build in? the 2nd bonus is not a bonus unless u have an mwd anyway, so we get a ship that is forced into one role with not much choice on fittings
Jago X	Posted - 2006.07.30 12:18:00 - [13] Originally by: bldyannoyed I agree with everyone who doesnt think the hyperion will be a better balsterboat than a mega. POINT 1. MWD bonus, Total waste. I fly my blasterthron in full gank mode, with neutrons abd a plate. Cap is immaterial, and as i fire the MWd at most TWICE during an engagement a bonus to it is a waste. POINT 2. No tracking bonus. Tracking at close range is absolutely crucial. Yes the Hype may have an extra turret, but with 37.5% less tracking at lvl 5 i honestly wouldnt be surprised to find it has less real world DPS than a mega. POINT 3. Smaller drone bay. It has been well documented that 5 Tech 2 Heavy drones are worth nearly 500 DPS. The Hype loses that. Personally i dont use them, preffering webber drones, but again, teh Hype wont have that option to it either. Compared to my setup then, the Hypes extra mis is negated by the ned to fit a webber. POINT 4. Lighter. Therefore less structure. A Neutrathron best survival chance its 7500 structure with 58% resists. The Hype presumably will have less structure, and presumably less armour as well. POINT 5. Versatility. It has none. Sorry for the long post well i disagree with most of what people seem to be saying here.. we do want a proper dedicated blasterboat ... heck all the races apart from caldari (who do need one fleet BS) should get a close range designed Tier 3 BS - fleet is boring and yet CCP just bring out more and more stuff to make combat go in that dircetion while claiming that they want to nerf long range turets and make close rang combat more viable . Anyway about the hyperion ... ill start with point 5 you made. 5>/ the bigggest problem with the mega as a blasterboat is its lack of versatility .. if the hype gets a 8, 6, 6 slot layout then that problem will be sloved. Either fit neutron IIs, a schield tank and damge mods/pdus in the lows for a gank + tank setup. Or fit armor tank + e-war mids + electron IIs... with 2 spare mids (after the usual four b-thron med slots), and four if your in a gang and can drop the web/scramble, it will be much more versatile. (OFC you could fit neuts + e-war mids + RCU/dmg mods also) 4/ Structure .. well the tier 3 in general will have more base hp i imagine so i wouldnt worry about this too much 3./ Agreed on the bigger drone bay 2./ Tracking - fly a domi with blasters ... its not such a big deal losing the tracking bonus .. infact againt BSs with the T2 high damage ammo it doesnt make any differences and against crusers ... well if you cant pwn cruisers with null as easily as you can in a mega then maybe thats a good thing - plus with two extra mids youd be able to fit an extra webber. 1./ Id love to see this MWD penalty (-25% cap) scrapped alltogether and the bonus changed to something different - a fallof bonus. Yup a falloff bonus for this ship would actually make it useful in large gangs ... yes it would pwn the tempest BUT the tempest needs a rethink anyway - with ECM out of the equation it allready loses to a b-thron and i hope this new blasterboat will outperform the mega at this role - hence, either way, the tempest will be made pretty obselete.
fkingfurious	Posted - 2006.07.30 13:21:00 - [14] I think the Hyperion is gonna suck and i think it is completely unnecessary. The Blasterthron is already a phenomenal blaster ship. At less than 10km ranges it is damn near unbeatable if set up right. The ONLY way to beat one is to keep it at range, using web drones, superior manouverability, being clever, OR to attack its cap very hard. Generally speaking the only thing id worry about fighting in one is a nos Dom. If the Hyperion does end up working, its gonna be SERIOUSLY over powered. By being manouverable and having big cap the only 2 draw backs ( and imo the balances ) to the blasterthron are removed. The bloody thing will be unstoppable. However, i dont think its gonna come to that cos, as ive already said in a previous post, i think its gonna suck the fat one.
Nahia Senne Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.30 13:47:00 - [15] i have no clue whos been calling for a dedicated blasterboat, but i definitely dont want another useless ridiculously short range ship. and cap bonus.. please. we all know how usefull is this on pvp apoc.
Jago X	Posted - 2006.07.30 14:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Nahia Senne i have no clue whos been calling for a dedicated blasterboat, but i definitely dont want another useless ridiculously short range ship. and cap bonus.. please. we all know how usefull is this on pvp apoc. The fact is we either get a long range dedicated dampner boat or a short range blaster ship. The last thing eve needs is anymore encouragement for blobs and 200km fights .. atleast a blasterbaot will be FUN to fly in PvP... something which alot of people seem to be missing in their quest to get the gal Tier 3 BS into a lame rail/dampening boat with lots of mids so it can easily shield tank their lvl4 missions. Besides, in the mega we allready have an excellent fleet ship .. does some of the best dps @ 200km+ and has a utility high slot which can actually be pretty useful in some fleet situations. BUT, the mega only works well as a blastership in 1v1, BSvBS, sub 10km fight where there is no heavy nos and no e-war invloved .. and we all know how often they come along on TQ
Leam Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.30 14:13:00 - [17] Originally by: bldyannoyed POINT 3. Smaller drone bay. It has been well documented that 5 Tech 2 Heavy drones are worth nearly 500 DPS. The Hype loses that. Personally i dont use them, preffering webber drones, but again, teh Hype wont have that option to it either. Compared to my setup then, the Hypes extra mis is negated by the ned to fit a webber. It has been very well documented? Let's see... 24dmg*1.92dmg multiplier= 46.08, divided by 2 rate of fire= 23.04 23.04x 1.25(25% heavy drone bonus)=28.8 and 28.8x1.1(advanced bonus)=31,68. 31.68x5= 158,4 dps (in a megathron). And, when the "slighty reduced" hyperion dronebay was transformed in "no dronebay at all?. Maths ftw
Porro Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.30 14:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Leam maths stuff You forgot drone interfacing, with drone spec 4 its 311dps. It still makes the gap between the thron and the hype smaller. ---------------------------------------------------- (22:01:14) (Sangxianc) you, porro, have madder skillzors than i, sang, do
Leam Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.30 14:31:00 - [19] Originally by: anotleam Originally by: Porro Originally by: Leam maths stuff You forgot drone interfacing, with drone spec 4 its 311dps. It still makes the gap between the thron and the hype smaller. Oh right thanks, i've been wondering why the results were so low the last half hour lol, i'll fix the calcs ^^ Grrr damn alt, that was me.
anotleam	Posted - 2006.07.30 14:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Porro Originally by: Leam maths stuff You forgot drone interfacing, with drone spec 4 its 311dps. It still makes the gap between the thron and the hype smaller. Oh right thanks, i've been wondering why the results were so low the last half hour lol, i'll fix the calcs ^^
Levin Cavil Lucid Ambition	Posted - 2006.07.30 18:32:00 - [21] Edited by: Levin Cavil on 30/07/2006 18:34:38 Originally by: delta2zero that 15ms is going to make a world of difference! now us gallenete can have the massive imbalanced speed minmatar bs pilots have grown used to Don't forget that if youre going 15ms faster you will just overshoot your target that much more and instead of being 10km on the wrong side you'll be 15km on the wrong side \o/. Anyone that says Gallente need a specialized blaster boat has no clue what they are talking about. The Megathron is the best blaster ship you could ask for, hands down. And still nobody has said why the cap bonus is better than a rep bonus. ---------- <Kayosoni> I'm actually normal
kessah Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.30 19:09:00 - [22] crist id love to swap bonuses with hyperon and maelstrom would be awesome to have matari bs fast and light. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate
Tsual Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.30 19:23:00 - [23] Edited by: Tsual on 30/07/2006 19:24:44 Originally by: Levin Cavil Anyone that says Gallente need a specialized blaster boat has no clue what they are talking about. The Megathron is the best blaster ship you could ask for, hands down. Hmm Tuxfordens tier 3 ship blog stated: Originally by: Tuxford Now you might be asking your self what is the use of megathron then? Well not everything is better on the Hyperion, it has really crappy targetting range, and I mean really crappy. It also has smaller drone bay than Megathron and obviously worse tracking. Megathron would therefor be considerable better long range ship, while still being a decent blaster boat. Now if we look at current Megathron version (flederation, navy, vindi) there is one ship that comes very near the the bonuses of the Hyperion the vindicator: Special Ability: 25% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% Bonus to MicroWarpdrive capacitor penalty per level So basicly Gallente get a "mini" vindicator as tier 3. But then I also assume everyone already saw this. ******************** Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence.
Leam Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.30 19:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Levin Cavil Anyone that says Gallente need a specialized blaster boat has no clue what they are talking about. The Megathron is the best blaster ship you could ask for, hands down. If you say that, i guess that a) You've never flown a thron, b) You're the most awesome pilot ever and dont realice of the multiple drawbacks compared with the rest of ships/fittings combos c) You fly it, and think it's perfect cause you can kill things in 6vs1 ganks. BLATERS themselves have issues, probably if they fixed em megathron would work much better. Still, there is the crappy grid/cpu it has considering that you need to fit mwd and cap injector for it to work properly, plus the **** cap you have left after fitting the mwd.
bldyannoyed Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.31 01:01:00 - [25] Leam, it is clearly ypu that has never flown a Blasterthron. The drawbacks u speak of are called BALANCE. I fly 1 and will take it 1 v 1 with any BS in the gang, cept mebbe a nos dom. Nor is there anything wrong with blasters. Since the fix it is possible to set up a devastatingly effective Neutron fit. People say they should have more damage and stuff and they are clearly mental. The damage with neutrons and void is so extreme it renders any tank a waste of slots, NOTHING can survive it. The idea of making a ship which is better at blasting than the mega is frankly sickening. And as for the mega still having a place in the game. The Rokh will exceed it as a sniper and ( if the devs *****pot plan works) the hype will exceed it as a blaster boat. Mega therefore will be redundant.
Jago X	Posted - 2006.07.31 01:19:00 - [26] Originally by: bldyannoyed Leam, it is clearly ypu that has never flown a Blasterthron. The drawbacks u speak of are called BALANCE. I fly 1 and will take it 1 v 1 with any BS in the gang, cept mebbe a nos dom. Nor is there anything wrong with blasters. Since the fix it is possible to set up a devastatingly effective Neutron fit. People say they should have more damage and stuff and they are clearly mental. The damage with neutrons and void is so extreme it renders any tank a waste of slots, NOTHING can survive it. The idea of making a ship which is better at blasting than the mega is frankly sickening. And as for the mega still having a place in the game. The Rokh will exceed it as a sniper and ( if the devs *****pot plan works) the hype will exceed it as a blaster boat. Mega therefore will be redundant. You can compare a b-thron to a non-nossing, non-ewar ship in a 1v1 and think its overpowered. What the reality of the matter is is that in 80-90% of cases a tempest, or any other close range ship (which would often lose to a thron in a direct 1v1) is miles better. Essentially the thron was never fast enough, never versatile enough (blaster boats need mids, the thron has none to spare) and never had enough cap. so yes we do need a proper blasterboat. Also comparing the gallente/caldari bss and saying one will make the other redindant for fleet is complete rubbish, and not only because most people wont bother to train an extra race just for an extra 10% range .. the mega will also still outdamage the rohk at some ranges and has room for an anti frig launcher
fkingfurious	Posted - 2006.07.31 01:26:00 - [27] Sry, gonna disagree with u here. The Thron DOES have enuff cap when flown and setup correctly. The coming ECM nerf will ( fingers crossed ) make this mid slot pish less of a factor. There is absolutley nothing wrong with the blasterthron. Its DPS is utterly insane, to the point where it doesnt need a tank to survive a fight. Yes, its heavy, but the weight gives it HP and those HP are what keeps it alive. Make it lightweight and it'll get shredded. And yes, in a fleet its less usefull as a blasterboat, but in a fleet close combat ships are virtually useless. Which is why u fit em for range. Short range is always better suited to 1 v1 or skirmish, and in those situations the blasterthron is perfect. It BLASTS. If u want fancy EWAR fly a ******* scorp.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.31 01:36:00 - [28] Ontop of that the "blaster" boat doesn't even get a good drone bay although the "sniper" battleship aka Megathron gets a fat dronebay.... High-Sec Piracy Recruitment
Jago X	Posted - 2006.07.31 01:44:00 - [29] Originally by: fkingfurious Sry, gonna disagree with u here. The Thron DOES have enuff cap when flown and setup correctly. The coming ECM nerf will ( fingers crossed ) make this mid slot pish less of a factor. There is absolutley nothing wrong with the blasterthron. Its DPS is utterly insane, to the point where it doesnt need a tank to survive a fight. Yes, its heavy, but the weight gives it HP and those HP are what keeps it alive. Make it lightweight and it'll get shredded. And yes, in a fleet its less usefull as a blasterboat, but in a fleet close combat ships are virtually useless. Which is why u fit em for range. Short range is always better suited to 1 v1 or skirmish, and in those situations the blasterthron is perfect. It BLASTS. If u want fancy EWAR fly a ***** scorp. well im glad you seem to agree with me on the mega not becoming redundant as a fleet ship atleast On the rest we shall just have to disagree ... ive spent to many times fitting a b-thron for gang work (and then spending most of the time in the fights trying to MWD into range) to be told the b-thron is prefect for skirmich situations. Also ... Originally by:** fkingfurious If u want fancy EWAR fly a ******* scorp. i couldnt agree more .. this is the main reason why i think we need a blastership .. coz if we DONT get one then we get another fleet/e-war ship that just means more boring blobbing with one e-war ship locking down multiple opponents and ruining the fun of actually shooting back while you die .
Cohkka LoneWolf Mining R i s e	Posted - 2006.07.31 01:45:00 - [30] Originally by: fkingfurious There is absolutley nothing wrong with the blasterthron. Its DPS is utterly insane, to the point where it doesnt need a tank to survive a fight. Yes, its heavy, but the weight gives it HP and those HP are what keeps it alive. Make it lightweight and it'll get shredded. Uhh? By your logic the scorpion should have more armor than the Megathron? Please, for the love of god, stop comparing EVE to real life. Well, and what Kaeten said... Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5...
anotleam	Posted - 2006.07.31 01:55:00 - [31] Edited by: anotleam on 31/07/2006 01:55:00
Leam Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 01:56:00 - [32] Edited by: Leam on 31/07/2006 01:57:12 Sorry, anotleam is my alt, i think i'll delete it tonigth lol. Originally by: Jago X Originally by: bldyannoyed Leam, it is clearly ypu that has never flown a Blasterthron. The drawbacks u speak of are called BALANCE. I fly 1 and will take it 1 v 1 with any BS in the gang, cept mebbe a nos dom. Nor is there anything wrong with blasters. Since the fix it is possible to set up a devastatingly effective Neutron fit. People say they should have more damage and stuff and they are clearly mental. The damage with neutrons and void is so extreme it renders any tank a waste of slots, NOTHING can survive it. The idea of making a ship which is better at blasting than the mega is frankly sickening. And as for the mega still having a place in the game. The Rokh will exceed it as a sniper and ( if the devs ***pot plan works) the hype will exceed it as a blaster boat. Mega therefore will be redundant. You can compare a b-thron to a non-nossing, non-ewar ship in a 1v1 and think its overpowered. What the reality of the matter is is that in 80-90% of cases a tempest, or any other close range ship (which would often lose to a thron in a direct 1v1) is miles better. Essentially the thron was never fast enough, never versatile enough (blaster boats need mids, the thron has none to spare) and never had enough cap. so yes we do need a proper blasterboat. Also comparing the gallente/caldari bss and saying one will make the other redindant for fleet is complete rubbish, and not only because most people wont bother to train an extra race just for an extra 10% range .. the mega will also still outdamage the rohk at some ranges and has room for an anti frig launcher I was writing my own post but you've put it very well ^^ Quote:** Ontop of that the "blaster" boat doesn't even get a good drone bay although the "sniper" battleship aka Megathron gets a fat dronebay.... Yeah, that i agree, is quite weird. I guess they've done it only to give the mega some advantage over hyperion. Let's see how small is "smaller drone bay"
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.07.31 04:38:00 - [33] I find it funny that the megathron or the "long range ship" is the one with the tracking bonus and larger drone bay while the hyperion has bad tracking and small drone bay. I think the MWD cap peanlty bonus is useless as most blaster pilots use cap injectors to run their ships. Also it does nothing for people that dont use MWD's on their ships. I know alot of caldari pilots that are going to fit blasters on their tier 3 caldari BS because of the optimal bonus + null ammo. I will be hugely dissapointed if it ends up like the eagle and the deimos, where the eagle wins because of its versitility. Im not great at calculating damage but im prety sure the megathron + its drones will still out damage the hyperion expecially with its tracking bonus. The only way I can see the hyperion outperforming the megathron is if it had the grid + CPU to fit a full rack of neutrons and a full tank and even them i wouldnt be too sure. CCP is giving the gallente a blastership, but the problem is we already have one. Whats worse is that this new ship is dedicatated to blasters and cant doo too much else but is no better at it than the blasterthron. Th new caldari tier 3 gives caldari BS so much more versitility and the gallente one none at all. Caldari get: 1) A sniping battleship that is as good if not better than megathron. 2) A blaster ship that is not as good as the megathron/hyperion but gives caldari alot more options when fitting a BS. With null ammo it can hit out prety far and can shield tank + gank or ECM+gank. Gallente get A ship with a bonus that is restricted to 1 role that it doesnt realy do any better at than the megathron.
anotleam	Posted - 2006.07.31 05:24:00 - [34] Edited by: anotleam on 31/07/2006 05:23:58
Leam Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 05:24:00 - [35] Naughty boy did this chart. if his calcs are right hyperion pretty much outdamages megathron as long as it has some dronebay at least. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b182/Naughty654/crbs07.png This one takes into accoutn movement and web http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b182/Naughty654/crbs08.png and this one with no dmg mods (cept for rohk that has 3). http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b182/Naughty654/crbs09.png Thanks to naughty boy btw :)
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind	Posted - 2006.07.31 06:43:00 - [36] my personal favorite for Hyperion is 8/6/6 5% to Large hybrid dmg per skill lvl 5% to Large Blaster dmg per skill lvl or 5% to Large hybrid dmg per skill lvl 20% reduced mwd cap penaly per skill lvl + 15% reduction to mwd siq penalty per skill lvl or 5% to Large Hybrid dmg per skill lvl 10% to web range per skill lvl
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:51:00 - [37] Edited by: Deathbarrage on 31/07/2006 09:51:55 Originally by: Leam Originally by: Levin Cavil Anyone that says Gallente need a specialized blaster boat has no clue what they are talking about. The Megathron is the best blaster ship you could ask for, hands down. If you say that, i guess that a) You've never flown a thron, b) You're the most awesome pilot ever and dont realice of the multiple drawbacks compared with the rest of ships/fittings combos c) You fly it, and think it's perfect cause you can kill things in 6vs1 ganks. BLATERS themselves have issues, probably if they fixed em megathron would work much better. Still, there is the crappy grid/cpu it has considering that you need to fit mwd and cap injector for it to work properly, plus the **** cap you have left after fitting the mwd. 1st of all Levin knows how to fly a B-thron 2nd of all step out of your ideal world where every pvp is clean 1v1 pvp cuz most pvp in eve is the ''6v1'' combat you just talked about and if you ever pvp you do it aswell. btw I'd like 5% hybrid dmg 7,5% armor repairer effectiveness
Masochist Shinra	Posted - 2006.07.31 11:18:00 - [38] Ashame they will give it a very small dronebay. The ship would be so much greater with than without. Especially because drones are mainly short range too.
fkingfurious	Posted - 2006.07.31 11:56:00 - [39] And another thing. Whats all this talk about versatility. A Mega can snipe, blast, fight mid range with Dual 250's and an armour tank, people seem to think the fact that it cant use ECM means it ain't versitile. Which is rubbish. It doesnt need to be faster. It takes me about 25 secs to cover 20 - 25 km to get in range, which isnt exactly a long time. If ur fighting at ranges greater than that u have to accept that you are IN THE WRONG SHIP. To be a better blaster boat than the mega the Hype needs to have noticeably greater damage, and the only way i can think that i could improve my neutron fit wouold be fot it to have 8 lows. With an 8/6/6 layout id be sticking to the megathron. It would still annihilate most things it finds and if ne silly sod in a Hype tries it on i'll just wait for him to do the MWDing before i shoot him to bits.
Levin Cavil Lucid Ambition	Posted - 2006.07.31 19:56:00 - [40] Edited by: Levin Cavil on 31/07/2006 20:00:53 Originally by: fkingfurious And another thing. Whats all this talk about versatility. A Mega can snipe, blast, fight mid range with Dual 250's and an armour tank, people seem to think the fact that it cant use ECM means it ain't versitile. Which is rubbish. It doesnt need to be faster. It takes me about 25 secs to cover 20 - 25 km to get in range, which isnt exactly a long time. If ur fighting at ranges greater than that u have to accept that you are IN THE WRONG SHIP. To be a better blaster boat than the mega the Hype needs to have noticeably greater damage, and the only way i can think that i could improve my neutron fit wouold be fot it to have 8 lows. With an 8/6/6 layout id be sticking to the megathron. It would still annihilate most things it finds and if ne silly sod in a Hype tries it on i'll just wait for him to do the MWDing before i shoot him to bits. Youre right, the Megathron is versatile, and thats exactly the point. The Hyperion's bonus make it a very limited ship and not only limited but in many cases inferior to the Megathron. With an armor rep bonus it is a unique and versatile Gallente BS. (Much like the 3 distinctly different Caldari BS...) With a rep bonus it would still help a Blaster ship because you would have to use less cap to repair the same amount of HP and yet it could also be fit as a mid range rail ship with a tank. As it stands now the Hyperion will just do what the Megathron does and with some luck it will do it as well as the Mega. Instead of making a new ship to fill the megathron's role (which is basically and admission by Tux that the blasterthron is broken) wouldn't it be better to just fix blasters properly? Then give gallente an actual ship they can use like the other 3 races are getting. ---------- <Kayosoni> I'm actually normal
Laughlyn Vaughns Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 20:08:00 - [41] Edited by: Laughlyn Vaughns on 31/07/2006 20:10:35 from lookign at the ine of things the tier 3 BS are bigger tier 1 battlecruisers with slightly changed bonii on sum of them but the other 3 races getting the Tanking bonii. i think the MWD bonus shud get scrapped and summat more usefull put in, and i aint even much of a gallente pilot but even when i am i dotn use MWD's on any ship, unelss travelling long distances. if the mega is supposed to be the long range Railboat then give have it as a damage and range bonii, maybe +5% to both so as not to tread on the Rokh toes, reduce the mega's drone bay as its a sniper and give that to the hyperion. that way give the Hyperion the tracking bonus or the repper bonus plus say 125m3 drone bay to turn it into a proper blaster boat. Summat that can fit 8 Neuts II's and 5 heavy drones so that it is the deadliest ship ever upclose and personal, drawback beign it takes a while to get upclose and it can be scrambled/webbed ect despite the fact it may kill u in seconds if it gets the chance
Levin Cavil Lucid Ambition	Posted - 2006.07.31 20:15:00 - [42] Originally by: Laughlyn Vaughns Edited by: Laughlyn Vaughns on 31/07/2006 20:10:35 from lookign at the ine of things the tier 3 BS are bigger tier 1 battlecruisers with slightly changed bonii on sum of them but the other 3 races getting the Tanking bonii. i think the MWD bonus shud get scrapped and summat more usefull put in, and i aint even much of a gallente pilot but even when i am i dotn use MWD's on any ship, unelss travelling long distances. if the mega is supposed to be the long range Railboat then give have it as a damage and range bonii, maybe +5% to both so as not to tread on the Rokh toes, reduce the mega's drone bay as its a sniper and give that to the hyperion. that way give the Hyperion the tracking bonus or the repper bonus plus say 125m3 drone bay to turn it into a proper blaster boat. Summat that can fit 8 Neuts II's and 5 heavy drones so that it is the deadliest ship ever upclose and personal, drawback beign it takes a while to get upclose and it can be scrambled/webbed ect despite the fact it may kill u in seconds if it gets the chance Or how about instead of changing the mgathron's baseic role (the one its had for close to 3 years) you just make the hyperion a rail ship? With Damage and rep amount and 6 mids and 8 turrets it would outdamage the Mega at range easily and have more room for trakcing mods and such. Also, it could still be fit for close range but would be better suited to medium or long range. Both ships would remain versatile but best suited for different roles. ---------- <Kayosoni> I'm actually normal
Ithildin Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 20:21:00 - [43] Originally by: Glarion Garnier my personal favorite for Hyperion is 8/6/6 5% to Large hybrid dmg per skill lvl 5% to Large Blaster dmg per skill lvl or 5% to Large hybrid dmg per skill lvl 20% reduced mwd cap penaly per skill lvl + 15% reduction to mwd siq penalty per skill lvl or 5% to Large Hybrid dmg per skill lvl 10% to web range per skill lvl For your information, the way the devs do it is to apply a bonus after the nerfs have been applied. This would mean that they'd need a really awkward boost of 6.6666---% per level. I do feel and agree that a removal of signature penalty from MWD boost is the least we would expect from a ship like this. At the very least it'd mean there's a tiny shred of hope in MWDing across the battlefield, even if it isn't very recommendable. Regarding first suggestion, I think turret sub-category bonuses fell out of fashion for the devs 3 years ago. Regarding third suggestion, while it would fit in with blasters in a sense, there's a few problems. First of all is that it's already been put down as a Minmatar (and Blood Raider) sort of bonus. Additionally, it wouldn't be very helpful considering that it's only with Null L that you really reach the ranges where a webbifier bonus would be lethal. Even further, 15km webbifiers aren't very much better than 10km webbifiers, at the very least not to merit a battleship bonus. Should be said, there's plenty of wishful thinking below. I'm only half serious What would be interesting is if the Gallente ships were all converted into some sort of drone carriers. Distributing the following bonuses among the three Gallente BShips evenly and according to concept: ¦ +10% damage (damage drones) and hit points ¦ +10% utility drone efficiency (web, TP, and rep drones) and drone MWD speed ¦ +10% electronic drone efficiency (ECM, Neut, and damp drones) and control range Perhaps: ¦ Dominix. Duh. ¦ Hyperion. Up to 45% web drones, for example. ¦ Megathron. Up to strength 3 ECM drones (not sure, this might be a bit powerful - 12.5% chance of jam on unhardened Scorp per heavy ECM drone). Would also mean sentry drones would be more useful/able - enhancing it's railgun-ish role. Well... it'd add flavour ^^ Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Laughlyn Vaughns Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 20:32:00 - [44] Originally by: Levin Cavil Edited by: Levin Cavil on 31/07/2006 20:20:21 Originally by: Laughlyn Vaughns Edited by: Laughlyn Vaughns on 31/07/2006 20:10:35 from lookign at the ine of things the tier 3 BS are bigger tier 1 battlecruisers with slightly changed bonii on sum of them but the other 3 races getting the Tanking bonii. i think the MWD bonus shud get scrapped and summat more usefull put in, and i aint even much of a gallente pilot but even when i am i dotn use MWD's on any ship, unelss travelling long distances. if the mega is supposed to be the long range Railboat then give have it as a damage and range bonii, maybe +5% to both so as not to tread on the Rokh toes, reduce the mega's drone bay as its a sniper and give that to the hyperion. that way give the Hyperion the tracking bonus or the repper bonus plus say 125m3 drone bay to turn it into a proper blaster boat. Summat that can fit 8 Neuts II's and 5 heavy drones so that it is the deadliest ship ever upclose and personal, drawback beign it takes a while to get upclose and it can be scrambled/webbed ect despite the fact it may kill u in seconds if it gets the chance Or how about instead of changing the mgathron's basic role (the one it's had for close to 3 years) you just make the hyperion a rail ship? With Damage and rep amount and 6 mids and 8 turrets it would outdamage the Mega at range easily and have more room for trakcing mods and such. Also, it could still be fit for close range but would be better suited to medium or long range. Both ships would remain versatile but best suited for different roles. yer, either/or really but ships get bonii changed that they had for several years (Phoon for example along with some others) so that wouldnt be summat new for the devs, but yeah give the Hyerion the rails bonus and repper bonus especially sinc eits not ingame yet and it has less dronebay. only hting would reduce Mega locking range if its a shortrange ship
Earthan Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 20:45:00 - [45] Yep all bs tier 3 bonuses looks good except for the gallente hyperion wich , understandbly given my rqace, annoys me a lot. The mwd bonus is tottal crap.Any balster boat has to use cap injectors/charges and then cap recahrge stops to matter at all. Pzl Pl zPl change that second bonus to something useful.The main problem of balster boats is a ) guns but thats nother topic b) getting to target in one piece.An armour resistance or hp bonus?Or if you want to be very so[histicated a big bonus to armour resistance when the bs goes over 800m/s.That would allow it to approach/try to run with more chances, making it a interesting ship with interesting bonus - Grey Council military officer. Grey Council forums Norad charta
dalman Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.07.31 20:46:00 - [46] Well, I said my opinion in the 'blog 20'-thread. The Hyperion looks like a good rail ship. And not better than mega and certainly not domi at short range. Except for the lock range. And then for some reason the tier 3s has been given an extra slot (to make all faction ships useless) Oh well, perhaps I'll get to fly a shieldtanked blastership... errr, no I won't, since ECM > all. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
anotleam	Posted - 2006.07.31 20:54:00 - [47] Edited by: anotleam on 31/07/2006 20:54:42 EDIT: sigh, this is leam lol Originally by: Deathbarrage Edited by: Deathbarrage on 31/07/2006 09:51:55 Originally by: Leam Originally by: Levin Cavil Anyone that says Gallente need a specialized blaster boat has no clue what they are talking about. The Megathron is the best blaster ship you could ask for, hands down. If you say that, i guess that a) You've never flown a thron, b) You're the most awesome pilot ever and dont realice of the multiple drawbacks compared with the rest of ships/fittings combos c) You fly it, and think it's perfect cause you can kill things in 6vs1 ganks. BLATERS themselves have issues, probably if they fixed em megathron would work much better. Still, there is the crappy grid/cpu it has considering that you need to fit mwd and cap injector for it to work properly, plus the **** cap you have left after fitting the mwd. 1st of all Levin knows how to fly a B-thron 2nd of all step out of your ideal world where every pvp is clean 1v1 pvp cuz most pvp in eve is the ''6v1'' combat you just talked about and if you ever pvp you do it aswell. btw I'd like 5% hybrid dmg 7,5% armor repairer effectiveness erm, i know how pvp works, thanks for the advice, now i'll enlight you with a most incredible fact, you cant use "real fights" to balance ships, cause real fights as you said, are not fair. A ship being able to kill stuff or not dying in a 6vs1 fight doesnt mean it is "good" or "balanced". You have to balance things in 1vs1 with ships of the same class (taking into account the situation of course, long range ships would win at long range against a close range one), and thron loses there hands down. Most of gallente pilots know it (even the ones that still use it and get good results with hard work and l33t skillz), and the devs know it, reason why they're kicking the megathron out of the role and releasing the hyperion.
Leam Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 20:57:00 - [48] Originally by: Deathbarrage Edited by: Deathbarrage on 31/07/2006 09:51:55 Originally by: Leam Originally by: Levin Cavil Anyone that says Gallente need a specialized blaster boat has no clue what they are talking about. The Megathron is the best blaster ship you could ask for, hands down. If you say that, i guess that a) You've never flown a thron, b) You're the most awesome pilot ever and dont realice of the multiple drawbacks compared with the rest of ships/fittings combos c) You fly it, and think it's perfect cause you can kill things in 6vs1 ganks. BLATERS themselves have issues, probably if they fixed em megathron would work much better. Still, there is the crappy grid/cpu it has considering that you need to fit mwd and cap injector for it to work properly, plus the **** cap you have left after fitting the mwd. 1st of all Levin knows how to fly a B-thron 2nd of all step out of your ideal world where every pvp is clean 1v1 pvp cuz most pvp in eve is the ''6v1'' combat you just talked about and if you ever pvp you do it aswell. btw I'd like 5% hybrid dmg 7,5% armor repairer effectiveness erm, i know how pvp works, thanks for the advice, now i'll enlight you with a most incredible fact, you cant use "real fights" to balance ships, cause real fights as you said, are not fair. A ship being able to kill stuff or not dying in a 6vs1 fight doesnt mean it is "good" or "balanced". You have to balance things in 1vs1 with ships of the same class (taking into account the situation of course, long range ships would win at long range against a close range one), and thron loses there hands down. Most of gallente pilots know it (even the ones that still use it and get good results with hard work and l33t skillz), and the devs know it, reason why they're kicking the megathron out of the role and releasing the hyperion.
Sadist SWIFTS	Posted - 2006.07.31 22:15:00 - [49] Edited by: Sadist on 31/07/2006 22:24:19 Edited by: Sadist on 31/07/2006 22:16:37 Originally by: Levin Cavil Edited by: Levin Cavil on 31/07/2006 20:20:21 Originally by: Laughlyn Vaughns Edited by: Laughlyn Vaughns on 31/07/2006 20:10:35 from lookign at the ine of things the tier 3 BS are bigger tier 1 battlecruisers with slightly changed bonii on sum of them but the other 3 races getting the Tanking bonii. i think the MWD bonus shud get scrapped and summat more usefull put in, and i aint even much of a gallente pilot but even when i am i dotn use MWD's on any ship, unelss travelling long distances. if the mega is supposed to be the long range Railboat then give have it as a damage and range bonii, maybe +5% to both so as not to tread on the Rokh toes, reduce the mega's drone bay as its a sniper and give that to the hyperion. that way give the Hyperion the tracking bonus or the repper bonus plus say 125m3 drone bay to turn it into a proper blaster boat. Summat that can fit 8 Neuts II's and 5 heavy drones so that it is the deadliest ship ever upclose and personal, drawback beign it takes a while to get upclose and it can be scrambled/webbed ect despite the fact it may kill u in seconds if it gets the chance Or how about instead of changing the mgathron's basic role (the one it's had for close to 3 years) you just make the hyperion a rail ship? With Damage and rep amount and 6 mids and 8 turrets it would outdamage the Mega at range easily and have more room for trakcing mods and such. Also, it could still be fit for close range but would be better suited to medium or long range. Both ships would remain versatile but best suited for different roles. Levin, dear, you know how much I'd love that but alas, it seems it's not meant to be. Would you like me to buy you a ticket to iceland and set the record straight with Tux? òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Sadist empirealt	Posted - 2006.07.31 22:16:00 - [50] Edited by: Sadist empirealt on 31/07/2006 22:16:09 wtf stupid forum
Levin Cavil Lucid Ambition	Posted - 2006.07.31 23:03:00 - [51] Originally by: Sadist Levin, dear, you know how much I'd love that but alas, it seems it's not meant to be. Would you like me to buy you a ticket to iceland and set the record straight with Tux? At least we still have eachother ---------- <Kayosoni> I'm actually normal
Mihae	Posted - 2006.08.01 19:45:00 - [52] Personally I can't wait untill I get my dirty little female hands on the Hyperion.
Centurin Sturmgrenadier Inc	Posted - 2006.08.01 20:01:00 - [53] I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you.
Adamantium Beams	Posted - 2006.08.01 20:45:00 - [54] 7500 capacitor, 500 sec regen, mwd and tank problems solved
Levin Cavil Lucid Ambition	Posted - 2006.08.01 21:18:00 - [55] Originally by: Adamantium Beams 7500 capacitor, 500 sec regen, mwd and tank problems solved How is it going to have 7500 cap? And even if it does youll still have to use like 6 slots for cap mods. ---------- <Kayosoni> I'm actually normal

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.08.01 21:33:00 - [56] I wrote something about this bonus in my next blog which should come out soon, and basically I agree, the cap bonus isn't very sweet bonus and of the 4 tier 3 battleship Hyperion is probably the worst in its current form on the development server. Don't assume that we're blissfully ignorant about that though, in fact I've already changed the bonus to,... drumroll please,... mass addition reduction bonus. Was mostly a mad idea but I guess its worth a look at. Still I think when the other get a tanking bonus they will win over this one. Anyway I'll be on and off vacation for about two weeks so if there comes fresh static on SISI don't be surprised if some of it is a bit funky _______________

Blind Man Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.01 21:36:00 - [57] Originally by: Tuxford I wrote something about this bonus in my next blog which should come out soon, and basically I agree, the cap bonus isn't very sweet bonus and of the 4 tier 3 battleship Hyperion is probably the worst in its current form on the development server. Don't assume that we're blissfully ignorant about that though, in fact I've already changed the bonus to,... drumroll please,... mass addition reduction bonus. Was mostly a mad idea but I guess its worth a look at. Still I think when the other get a tanking bonus they will win over this one. Anyway I'll be on and off vacation for about two weeks so if there comes fresh static on SISI don't be surprised if some of it is a bit funky what a joker WTS Estamel's Modified X-Large Shield Booster

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.08.01 21:41:00 - [58] Originally by: KilROCK I wouldn't even be surprised if you thought about that Mass addition reduction bonus idea and thought it was good, then realised it was a horrible.. Like I said it was a silly idea, although it did go 1800m/s with one MWD which was fun for a little while. Like I also said it probably won't stay for long, except I'm on vacation and I guess nobody will change it then. All I can tell you know is that the bonus isn't sexeh enough. _______________

KilROCK Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.01 21:43:00 - [59] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: KilROCK I wouldn't even be surprised if you thought about that Mass addition reduction bonus idea and thought it was good, then realised it was a horrible.. Like I said it was a silly idea, although it did go 1800m/s with one MWD which was fun for a little while. Like I also said it probably won't stay for long, except I'm on vacation and I guess nobody will change it then. All I can tell you know is that the bonus isn't sexeh enough. Who cares if it goes 1800m/s in 2 seconds. The ship won't last against anything 'While' and 'when' it gets in optimal. SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.08.01 21:43:00 - [60] Originally by: murder one Is it me or did Tux just imply that Sisi might be getting mirrored in the next few weeks, and that the new ships might be on that new mirror? To be honest I'll be surprised if the static has changed before I get back, but hopefully shortly after. _______________


Tuxford	Posted - 2006.08.01 21:45:00 - [61] Originally by: KilROCK Who cares if it goes 1800m/s in 2 seconds. The ship won't last against anything 'While' and 'when' it gets in optimal. Which is why I said it probably won't be on par with the others without some sort of tanking bonus, or an even greater damage bonus. _______________

KilROCK Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.01 21:46:00 - [62] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: KilROCK Who cares if it goes 1800m/s in 2 seconds. The ship won't last against anything 'While' and 'when' it gets in optimal. Which is why I said it probably won't be on par with the others without some sort of tanking bonus, or an even greater damage bonus. Now we're getting somewhere ♥ SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.01 21:52:00 - [63] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: KilROCK Who cares if it goes 1800m/s in 2 seconds. The ship won't last against anything 'While' and 'when' it gets in optimal. Which is why I said it probably won't be on par with the others without some sort of tanking bonus, or an even greater damage bonus. continues gallente BS lvl 5
Blind Man Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.01 21:53:00 - [64] maelstrom 5% damage change gogogo WTS Estamel's Modified X-Large Shield Booster
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.01 22:00:00 - [65] Originally by: Blind Man maelstrom 5% damage change gogogo Hmmmm... slightly higher DPS or 7k alpha with Quake. That's a tough one :P TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Pattern Clarc Dark Destiny Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.01 22:02:00 - [66] Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 01/08/2006 22:01:46 Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Blind Man maelstrom 5% damage change gogogo Hmmmm... slightly higher DPS or 7k alpha with Quake. That's a tough one :P Shhhh get your own thread Roden Shipyards? MWD cap penalty?
Termy Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.01 22:37:00 - [67] well, tbh, accelerating to 1800m/s in 1 burst IS fun ----------- Not Blue = Shoot It
Agillious Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.01 22:44:00 - [68] I was wondering if a fitting bonus would work out better as a secondary bonus... something along the lines of a PG reduction in fitting large hybrids, or a cpu or PG reduction in fitting mid-slot items? If not fitting, then a range boost to sensor damps, tracking disruptors, or some other ranged EWAR item. It makes sense, the Hyperion starts the EWAR as it closes to keep from taking damage on the way in. It fits the intended role for the ship. Then again, weapon bonuses (damage, cap reduction on firing, tracking) are always wonderful!
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.08.01 22:57:00 - [69] Originally by: Kaeten Ontop of that the "blaster" boat doesn't even get a good drone bay although the "sniper" battleship aka Megathron gets a fat dronebay.... Sniper bs? You do know that the megaT was originally designed as a pure blasterBoat right <3
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.08.01 22:59:00 - [70] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: KilROCK Who cares if it goes 1800m/s in 2 seconds. The ship won't last against anything 'While' and 'when' it gets in optimal. Which is why I said it probably won't be on par with the others without some sort of tanking bonus, or an even greater damage bonus. 10% dmg bonus Pwetty pleeeeeease <3
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.01 23:04:00 - [71] /pets blaster spec V and BS V .... POST WITH YOUR MAIN !!!!11111one Real men use blasters
Kitty O'Shay Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.01 23:07:00 - [72] I really wanted a BS sized Celestis. Oh, and if I happen to spill a beer on Tux at fanfest, it had nothing to do with this, ok? At least I still have the Lachesis. -- [THARS] is recruiting 1 ebil pirate. Be the one!
Kldraina	Posted - 2006.08.01 23:13:00 - [73] Here's a silly thought: replace the MWD bonus with +10% structure resists per level. Then with BS 5, and a best named Damage Control you'd have 79% resists on structure. :)
Gierling Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.01 23:28:00 - [74] Edited by: Gierling on 01/08/2006 23:30:05 Tux, can you consider switching the MWD cap bonus to a straight cap bonus for all the ships that have it. That would remove the whinging about "OMG my bonus doesnt work all the time". Now as far as the Hyperion, The uber sustainable tanks of the other races are really not fit for the insane in your face gallente style. I say give it 10% armour repar system cycle time reduction. Tank fast and hard down to the wire.... (Actually I'm semi Kidding there, seriously though Give it Capacitor capacity and falloff) Also, an additional damage bonus only serves to further reduce the Megathron to Obselescence.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.08.01 23:37:00 - [75] 7.5% repped amount a'la brutix? 37.5% extra hp repped/cycle is nothing to sneer at... ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Idara Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.01 23:40:00 - [76] Blastership = Tracking Bonus or go home.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.08.01 23:41:00 - [77] Edited by: keepiru on 01/08/2006 23:41:14 That would truly be the last nail in the thron's coffin ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Tribunal Darkblade Technologies Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.08.01 23:43:00 - [78] Quote: 7.5% repped amount a'la brutix? 37.5% extra hp repped/cycle is nothing to sneer at... I would cry tears of joy, heh "We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers
Pattern Clarc Dark Destiny Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.01 23:47:00 - [79] how about a flat 3% to large blaster effectivness per level.... With no other bonuses. thats a 3% positive increase to every aspect of blasters per level, eg, range, tracking, damage, cap use, rof... I'd be happy with that. Roden Shipyards? MWD cap penalty?
Idara Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 00:14:00 - [80] Edited by: Idara on 02/08/2006 00:14:11 Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 01/08/2006 23:41:14 That would truly be the last nail in the thron's coffin That's the problem, it needs a tracking bonus to be a Blastership, but it won't get one because the mega has one.
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.08.02 00:56:00 - [81] Why cant we just forget about this blaster nonsense, and get a real battleships thats good for many occasions. Even if Hyperion would get bonuses that makes it the absolutely number 1 in short range combat, it would still be a very limited ship, useful in only a few specific situations. But if it has to be a blastership, it needs bonuses like this: - 20%/level falloff - no mwd penalty - 5%/level to damage and tracking And it would still lose to a torp raven setup for tanking :(
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.08.02 01:24:00 - [82] Eh? Structure resist bonus 4t sexy gank setup.
Death Merchant InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.02 01:36:00 - [83] Sweet Mary Mother of Hay Zeus...did you say damage bonus? Dont think anymore, keep your cap,mwd crap, give me more damage. Let the chips fall where they may. Continues Blaster specialization 5...... "What happens in Deklien stays in Deklien".
jamesw Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.02 01:53:00 - [84] Originally by: Tuxford even greater damage bonus. BOOM! Headshot! Thats what blasters (or at least a dedicated blastership) need imo - a further 25% damage increase over what the mega can do in its current form. They simply dont hurt enough for the problems you have getting in range. -- NEW Vid: Domi For the Win!
Kaylana Syi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.02 01:53:00 - [85] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Blind Man maelstrom 5% damage change gogogo Hmmmm... slightly higher DPS or 7k alpha with Quake. That's a tough one :P It needs the damage bonus imo Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Clone runner	Posted - 2006.08.02 02:22:00 - [86] scrap the mwd bonus and add something insane like the abilty to warp to enemy ships
Cohkka LoneWolf Mining R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.02 03:01:00 - [87] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: KilROCK Who cares if it goes 1800m/s in 2 seconds. The ship won't last against anything 'While' and 'when' it gets in optimal. Which is why I said it probably won't be on par with the others without some sort of tanking bonus, or an even greater damage bonus. Now we're getting somewhere ♥ Damnit, and I'm still specializing in Drones. Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5...
Grimpak Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.02 03:08:00 - [88] ok let's make things interesting: The Hyperion is the latest ship from the Gallente navy design labs. True to the "close and personal" gallente filosophy (sp?), it was designed to be assembled with lightweitgh, but sturdy materials, giving it an excelent agility and mass ratios for a ship of it's class. To make things more interesting, it's 8 weapon mounts are equiped with a state-of-the-art loading computer and reinforced magnetical stabilizers, wich allow the Hyperion to display an up and close hell to anyone who dares to fight it. Bonus: 5% damage bonus and 5% rate of fire bonus to Large hybrid weapons per each Gallente Battleship skill level. btw can someone show me a graph of the hyperion with a 5% dmg and a 5% RoF bonus? ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
jamesw Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.02 03:13:00 - [89] Originally by: Grimpak ok let's make things interesting: The Hyperion is the latest ship from the Gallente navy design labs. True to the "close and personal" gallente filosophy (sp?), it was designed to be assembled with lightweitgh, but sturdy materials, giving it an excelent agility and mass ratios for a ship of it's class. To make things more interesting, it's 8 weapon mounts are equiped with a state-of-the-art loading computer and reinforced magnetical stabilizers, wich allow the Hyperion to display an up and close hell to anyone who dares to fight it. Bonus: 5% damage bonus and 5% rate of fire bonus to Large hybrid weapons per each Gallente Battleship skill level. btw can someone show me a graph of the hyperion with a 5% dmg and a 5% RoF bonus? give this man a cookie. I like these bonuses. -- NEW Vid: Domi For the Win!
Ahh yee	Posted - 2006.08.02 04:21:00 - [90] 10% reduction in signiture penalty and capacitor use while MWD is active per BS level. Let it get the distance it needs without being a giant xmas light and 3/4 out of cap before the battle even starts.
Levin Cavil Lucid Ambition	Posted - 2006.08.02 05:37:00 - [91] Originally by: Tuxford I wrote something about this bonus in my next blog which should come out soon, and basically I agree, the cap bonus isn't very sweet bonus and of the 4 tier 3 battleship Hyperion is probably the worst in its current form on the development server. Don't assume that we're blissfully ignorant about that though, in fact I've already changed the bonus to,... drumroll please,... mass addition reduction bonus. Was mostly a mad idea but I guess its worth a look at. Still I think when the other get a tanking bonus they will win over this one. Anyway I'll be on and off vacation for about two weeks so if there comes fresh static on SISI don't be surprised if some of it is a bit funky <3 Tux ---------- <Kayosoni> I'm actually normal
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.02 06:57:00 - [92] Originally by: Ahh yee 10% reduction in signiture penalty and capacitor use while MWD is active per BS level. Let it get the distance it needs without being a giant xmas light and 3/4 out of cap before the battle even starts. That bonus doesn't change anything as even at BS5, it'll still be larger than a Dreadnought. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
InnerDrive	Posted - 2006.08.02 07:19:00 - [93] Tux how about a proper drone bay? Atleast the size of the MegaT.. I mean for a close range gallente blastership it woud be only normal for it to have a proper drone bay (5 heavy drones, like either Webbing drones, neutralizing drones, ECM drones or just damage drones?). As for the bonus the ship shoud get: I think that the mwd cap bonus is to narrow for a close range ship, evendho ya woud 80% of the time fit a mwd, its still only a 25% increase in cap with max skill, it woud be better served with a 7,5% armor repair effectiveness bonus or a 5% rof bonus to boost its damage output. Im also a bit worried about removing its tracking bonus, 25% is a good amount of tracking increase the mega has wich help a lott in hitting smaller targets like cruisers and frigs.
Kanuo Ashkeron Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.02 07:42:00 - [94] Originally by: Grimpak Bonus: 5% damage bonus and 5% rate of fire bonus to Large hybrid weapons per each Gallente Battleship skill level. Stealing my ideas I would like to throw in another idea: Bonus to webifier drone effectiveness (should come with a 125m3 drone bay). 5 standard webifier drones: 83% speed reduction 5% bonus per level and lvl 5: 90.46 % 7.5% bonus per level and lvl5: 93 % 4 drones: Standard: 76 % 5% bonus: 84.7 % 7.5% bonus: 88% Kanuo
InnerDrive	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:02:00 - [95] Originally by: Kanuo Ashkeron Bonus to webifier drone effectiveness (should come with a 125m3 drone bay). 5 standard webifier drones: 83% speed reduction 5% bonus per level and lvl 5: 90.46 % 7.5% bonus per level and lvl5: 93 % 4 drones: Standard: 76 % 5% bonus: 84.7 % 7.5% bonus: 88% Kanuo That woud be way to narrow of a bonus again, only applying to a specific type of drones... Thing i woud like to see at some point is a proper gallente (bigger than the ishtar) battleship sized pure drone ship with similer bonus to the drones as a ishtar. Because the damage potential on a ship like this with 6 or more turrets woud be way to high maybe limiting it to just just 2 or 3 turrets or only like 4 high slots woud be in order and giving it like 6 or 7 mid slots. Sure it woud somewhat like a domi but much more specialized in drones.
Winter Star Caldari Back Home In Time For Tea And Medals	Posted - 2006.08.02 08:29:00 - [96] In my meagre opinion an increased damage bonus is the most 'sexah' type of bonus. imo if the Hyperion is not to get a tanking bonus it needs to output enough damage to compensate. I think that makes sense, non?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:45:00 - [97] Here's my take on it. Tanking bonus. This tend to be a bit boring. Notice how all other tier 3 battleship get them? Well, it isn't that interesting then and we need more ship that stick out and are original, not more ships that conform to some sort of symmetry. Additional damage bonus. While very, very, attractive the problem is that this might make the ship a bit too good in addition to that it feeds the community's damage fenzy, which is a bad thing for future community feedback. Speed bonus. Not much to say here, a speed bonus to velocity is a very Minmatar thing, while a speed bonus through use of modules is a Gallentean thing. Regardless, I don't quite think it'll work too well in the long run and it's perhaps better to just give it a static boost to MWD efficiency by having it's mass below 100 million KG. Tracking bonus. Megathron. 'nuff said. MWD anti-nerfs. Biggest problem with this is that it requires the fitting of a demanding module in the first place. Additionally, there's a good opportunity to remove the sig radius nerf, although signature radii is of less import for battleships, and as such any MWD anti-nerf bonuses would probably remain unattractive and... weak. EWar (sensor damapener eff.). Requires the ship to have plenty of mid slots and plenty of CPU. Once it gets within 50km, there's a high reliability of forcing down the enemy ship to a managable level. Problem is that in theory sensor dampeners seem to be an ideal blaster module since it forces the enemy to combat on their ranges, but in practice it is much more of a mid range module where you have good damage, good reliability from the damps, as well as able to stay out of the enemy's reach completely. Additional problems are that EWar bonuses is painting bullseyes on the ship as well as that dampeners are required to be at least 3 in use on a single ship to be effective - thus three slots are removed from fitting. (Hyperion would thus need at least 6 mid slots, and that's a bare minimum since 3 slots isn't really enough to keep an enemy in place) I really would like a Gallentean short ranged EWar BShip (to strongly set it apart from Caldari EWar ships), but I'm not so sure it's doable. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Kldraina	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:24:00 - [98] Edited by: Kldraina on 02/08/2006 10:24:24 The effort to not be too boring, is why I initially suggested a 10% structure resist per level bonus. It provides increased survivability while doing so in a very different manner from the other tank bonuses. Alternatively, it could be a +20% or +15% structure hp, instead of a bonus to resists. I agree that adding a damage bonus, tracking bonus, or MWD bonus aren't good ideas for the reasons you stated. Since all the other tier 3 Bses have one weapon bonus, and one tank bonus, I figure the Hyperion needs some form of tank bonus, preferably an odd out of the box kind.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.02 11:01:00 - [99] Edited by: Grimpak on 02/08/2006 11:01:19 Originally by: Kanuo Ashkeron Originally by: Grimpak Bonus: 5% damage bonus and 5% rate of fire bonus to Large hybrid weapons per each Gallente Battleship skill level. Stealing my ideas didn't even noticed that Originally by: Ithildin Additional damage bonus. While very, very, attractive the problem is that this might make the ship a bit too good in addition to that it feeds the community's damage fenzy, which is a bad thing for future community feedback. well in one hand you're right, but keep in mind that Gallente are all about up and close hi-damage while tanking is secondary and yes, my proposed RoF bonus is a 2-sided blade if you think about it. Blasters consume a pretty hefty ammount of cap even after the changes they got, and RoF wouldn't help with that (specially with void). However it would make possible for the ship to beat some nasty tanks in blaster mode, while making it vulnerable to nos. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 11:06:00 - [100] 25% rof and 25% damage wouldn't be that bad, as it's going to be getting a drone bay nerf. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.02 11:41:00 - [101] Originally by: Kldraina Edited by: Kldraina on 02/08/2006 10:24:24 The effort to not be too boring, is why I initially suggested a 10% structure resist per level bonus. It provides increased survivability while doing so in a very different manner from the other tank bonuses. Alternatively, it could be a +20% or +15% structure hp, instead of a bonus to resists. I agree that adding a damage bonus, tracking bonus, or MWD bonus aren't good ideas for the reasons you stated. Since all the other tier 3 Bses have one weapon bonus, and one tank bonus, I figure the Hyperion needs some form of tank bonus, preferably an odd out of the box kind. So in order for this to be usefull you will have to take structure damage that means you will have to dock and repair structure after any decent engagement.
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2006.08.02 11:54:00 - [102] And only usefull for pvp
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.02 11:57:00 - [103] Originally by: Idara Blastership = Tracking Bonus or go home. yeah cuz the astarte doesn't have a tracking bonus and it's obviously the worst CS in existence...?
Luc Boye Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.02 11:57:00 - [104] And on Sisi. -------------------------- MWD Cap Penalty?
Luc Boye Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.02 11:58:00 - [105] Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: Idara Blastership = Tracking Bonus or go home. yeah cuz the astarte doesn't have a tracking bonus and it's obviously the worst CS in existence...? medium guns can track, but large ones just keep missing. Ironically, the faster your ship moves, the more they miss, so all those +speed bonuses really suck btw. -------------------------- MWD Cap Penalty?
Pattern Clarc Dark Destiny Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.02 12:00:00 - [106] Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: Idara Blastership = Tracking Bonus or go home. yeah cuz the astarte doesn't have a tracking bonus and it's obviously the worst CS in existence...? With the dps of the commandships, it's easy to forget that they are medium guns... Roden Shipyards? MWD cap penalty?
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.02 12:03:00 - [107] Originally by: InnerDrive Edited by: InnerDrive on 02/08/2006 08:18:47 Originally by: Kanuo Ashkeron Bonus to webifier drone effectiveness (should come with a 125m3 drone bay). 5 standard webifier drones: 83% speed reduction 5% bonus per level and lvl 5: 90.46 % 7.5% bonus per level and lvl5: 93 % 4 drones: Standard: 76 % 5% bonus: 84.7 % 7.5% bonus: 88% Kanuo That woud be way to narrow of a bonus again, only applying to a specific type of drones... Thing i woud like to see at some point is a proper gallente (bigger than the ishtar) battleship sized pure drone ship with similer bonus to the drones as a ishtar. Because the damage potential on a ship like this with 6 or more turrets woud be way to high maybe limiting it to just just 2 turrets and only like 4 high slots woud be in order and giving it like 6 or 7 mid slots. Sure it woud somewhat like a domi but much more specialized in drones. Giving it: - 20% drone damage/hitpoints bonus And something like - +50 m3 extra Drone Bay space per level It woud lack the drone control range bonus the ishtar has but that coud be compensated by fitting it with some drone link augmentators if ya want the range, ya got the slots for it. And obviously as a pure drone ship it wont need a hybrid damage bonus. actually the domi has the same bonus' as the ishtar, the HAC skill bonus' are just to compensate the lack of drone bay compared to the dominix. now you want to build a dominix with 33,3% more drone dmg? wtf
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 12:11:00 - [108] Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: Idara Blastership = Tracking Bonus or go home. yeah cuz the astarte doesn't have a tracking bonus and it's obviously the worst CS in existence...? Medium blaster track well enough to hit at virtually point blank range. Large blasters don't. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.02 12:25:00 - [109] Maybe drop a turret then add an extra dmg bonus.
Pattern Clarc Dark Destiny Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.02 12:26:00 - [110] Originally by: twit brent Maybe drop a turret then add an extra dmg bonus. like the megathron you mean? Roden Shipyards? MWD cap penalty?
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.02 12:51:00 - [111] well unless the test server stats are really really old better start whining about the 15250 pg
locus 777 Gallente RONA Deepspace	Posted - 2006.08.02 13:47:00 - [112] i really don't understand the logic behind this ship. what is the point of a blaster ship without a tracking bonus? for a supposed in close damage dealer i would have thought this high on the priority list of its designers. if it has great speed and agility yet sprays everywhere but its intention whats the point?
Mag's Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.08.02 14:32:00 - [113] Can someone tell me why the new ship is a blaster boat? Why the hell is the mega being usurped in this way? The Mega is a great blaster ship, and we all know the blasters are fubar'd not the ship.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 14:39:00 - [114] Originally by: Mag's Can someone tell me why the new ship is a blaster boat? Why the hell is the mega being usurped in this way? The Mega is a great blaster ship, and we all know the blasters are fubar'd not the ship. Mega isnt fast enough for total pwnage. Hype will be. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Sheeana	Posted - 2006.08.02 15:02:00 - [115] Most people seem hell bent on making this ship a DPS monster, why not just allow it to use the seige modual and be done with it. A down to Jita idear would be to change the MWD penalty bonus to a large cap (7.5% per lvl?) bonus that will counter the MWD penaly COMPLETELY, this will also make it a better tanker and even more so when people dont use a MWD. Wouldnt it not be cool not having to relly tottaly on a cap injector and trade them in for tracking comps so you can have the damage bonus... Each race have thier own set of Bonus's and the gellente have thier list to choose from to: damge armour repair drone stuff tracking Warp disrupor range Sensor damps This ship just needs the right bonus's to do the job not some crazy random stuff or to be tunred into a 1 hit wonder either. But it does need a bigger drone bay even if the mega looses some. Maby do something crazy with the Amaar ships for a change! Even the Kahnid gave into the whiners....
Merv Tring GeoTech	Posted - 2006.08.02 15:43:00 - [116] In forcing a ship into short range combat, I consider severely crippling its locking range to be the way to go. I don't know the exact specs at the moment, but setting the locking range to 30 or 40km should force the pilot into close range. Now that the ship can only effectively use blasters, the MWD bonus is no longer necessary. It can be replaced with a 7.5% cap bonus. This negates the MWD penalty at lvl 5 (0.75*1.375 = 1.03) without forcing the pilot to use such a module to reap any benefit from his bonus. Of course, everyone knows that at high speed tracking goes to hell, meaning that if you want to make an effective blaster boat you MUST, at the BS at least, give it a tracking bonus. Now, giving the Hyperion a 7.5% cap bonus would mean that the ships that currently have a 5% bonus (2 Amarr ones?) need to have their bonuses increased as well. If that overpowers them, this whole idea needs to be scrapped. Personally, I think a dedicated blaster boat is a bad idea.
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 15:44:00 - [117] The MWD cap bonus is one of the few bonuses that are added, not multiplied, so +25% would completely cancel it out. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.02 15:49:00 - [118] Just a few toughts of mine: a. you really want tracking bonus on blaster bs (or alot of cpu & medslots to compensate it with dual web or tracking comps) b. speed, mass & lock range is ... irrelevant. As far as i'm concerned i won't follow runaway tempest and if you start combat(not just another npcer gank) at anything more than 15km you are an idiot(or you are fighting n00bs) since you won't hit anything for next 30 seconds because of your own speed (or you have some uber expensive setup and can tank all of em permanently) What i'd like is huh... another dmg or proper tanking bonus OR 10% cap bonus while having mwd on(like vindicator), because with current state of cap i belive most people will still downgrade guns to fit injector(1 injector vs passive cap recharge that requires more than 1 slot... it is useless bonus on ship that has more than 3 medslots) Also i didn't really checked all the details, but i'd really like something to compensate low locking range, something like insane sensor strength because getting close is just like invitation to get droned, nosfed,webbed, scrambled, jammed, damped, td-ed... --------- Torture by ccp: pic
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.02 15:51:00 - [119] Edited by: LUKEC on 02/08/2006 15:52:17 Originally by: Sarmaul The MWD cap bonus is one of the few bonuses that are added, not multiplied, so +25% would completely cancel it out. Well the thorax still gets penalty. rax: base cap * 0.75 * 1.25 < base cap vindicator: base cap * 0.75 * 1.x (x = bs lvl) > base cap for x >=4 Unless they changed something(i didn't bother with deimos or rax for at least 6 months), you still end up having less cap. Or unless bs size concept is something entirely different, but i doubt (though ccp is full of surprises :) ) --------- Torture by ccp: pic
ElCoCo Gallente KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.08.02 15:54:00 - [120] Edited by: ElCoCo on 02/08/2006 15:54:55 Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 02/08/2006 15:52:17 Originally by: Sarmaul The MWD cap bonus is one of the few bonuses that are added, not multiplied, so +25% would completely cancel it out. Well the thorax still gets penalty. rax: base cap * 0.75 * 1.25 < base cap vindicator: base cap * 0.75 * 1.x (x = bs lvl) > base cap for x >=4 Unless they changed something(i didn't bother with deimos or rax for at least 6 months), you still end up having less cap. Or unless bs size concept is something entirely different, but i doubt (though ccp is full of surprises :) ) Yes you are right. For instance Vindicator with lvl5 minmatar skills gets a 12.5% cap bonus -> 6328cap Compared to megathron with mwd fitted (4218cap) it's a pretty big difference.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:01:00 - [121] Originally by: Sarmaul The MWD cap bonus is one of the few bonuses that are added, not multiplied, so +25% would completely cancel it out. I'm not sure what you're saying, but a Thorax or Deimos fitted with a MWD and cruiser 5 recieves a 6.75% cap penalty. The most accurate phrasing of the MWD bonus is "5% bonus to capacitor amount when a MWD is fitted" this is in stark contrast to something along the lines of "20% reduction in capacitor penalty of a MWD when fitted". That would multiply .25(1-.2level) resulting in no difference in capacitor with level5. (With that bonus, the resulting capacitor amount multiplier would be 1.00-(.25(1-.2level))) Hopefully I didn't confuse things further! --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:06:00 - [122] Ok I was wrong :) Someone a while back said that the bonuses negate each other and that a Vindi would end up with an extra 25% cap with the MWD fitted. Seeing as no minny ships have the same bonus I couldn't test it. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Gierling Gallente Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:06:00 - [123] Sarmaul was speaking of the cpacitor capacity bonus which I recommended as a replacement for the MWD cap bonus on all ships. NOT the existing cap reduction for MWD bonus on the thorax. IF we replaced the MWD Cap bonus with a straight cap bonus it would completely cancel out the the Effects of an MWD at level 5, as well as benefit the ship while there is no MWD fitted. I think its a way to give the Hype a bonus that hels it MWD into range more effectively, AND a tanking bonus at the same time.
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:20:00 - [124] Originally by: Gierling Sarmaul was speaking of the cpacitor capacity bonus which I recommended as a replacement for the MWD cap bonus on all ships. No, I was speaking of the current system :) TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:21:00 - [125] I actually get more cap on my vindi with a mwd fitted atm. Ship lovers click here
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:28:00 - [126] hmm... can I ask what kind of damage would the Hyperion do with a RoF and a dmg bonus? ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:30:00 - [127] Originally by: Grimpak hmm... can I ask what kind of damage would the Hyperion do with a RoF and a dmg bonus? I'd imagine that it'd look something like that double damage bonus Abaddon graph. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:38:00 - [128] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Grimpak hmm... can I ask what kind of damage would the Hyperion do with a RoF and a dmg bonus? I'd imagine that it'd look something like that double damage bonus Abaddon graph. counterbalanced by the fact that blasters are not that cap-friendly and extreme short range of the blasters? ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:51:00 - [129] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 02/08/2006 16:51:20 Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Grimpak hmm... can I ask what kind of damage would the Hyperion do with a RoF and a dmg bonus? I'd imagine that it'd look something like that double damage bonus Abaddon graph. counterbalanced by the fact that blasters are not that cap-friendly and extreme short range of the blasters? I'm just using the defaults from NB's most recent spread sheet, so forgive me if I totally screwed this spreadsheet up: graph edit: I suppose its kinda dumb to use void for that graph there, but its pretty impressive isn't it? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Olea Avenger Gallente GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:52:00 - [130] Edited by: Olea Avenger on 02/08/2006 16:52:17 The biggest problem I see with the Hyperion is that it is only good for a close range solo ganking at best. The Dominix fits that roll already even if its grid is a bit small. For range, the Megathron works quite nicely in that roll, even if it will probably be outclassed by the Rokh eventually. I've heard maybe using it for small gang PVP is best. However, in my experience, even in ~20 vs ~20 gang fights, it is next to impossible to control a blaster boat. Especially if this is a normal 0.0 system. From my experience with the Thorax, even in small fleet warfare, you will have a tough time making use of a blasterboat. You will already be fighting lag on your modules and getting in range. Much of the time while your trying to get into this range, you'll be getting hit already. In large scale fleet ops that have become central to POS warfare, the lag becomes even more magnified and a blaster boat is useless. You'll never get in range and get the modules you need to come on in time to do what you want. Of course, POS warfare is not fun. If you don't consider 20 people a small gang, well I've participated in fleet ops with over 100 people on each side. I also tend to find anything less then 10 is just a gank squad, and they will run at the first chance of anything that might stand up to a decent change of fighting them.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:15:00 - [131] Originally by: Hllaxiu Edited by: Hllaxiu on 02/08/2006 16:51:20 Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Grimpak hmm... can I ask what kind of damage would the Hyperion do with a RoF and a dmg bonus? I'd imagine that it'd look something like that double damage bonus Abaddon graph. counterbalanced by the fact that blasters are not that cap-friendly and extreme short range of the blasters? I'm just using the defaults from NB's most recent spread sheet, so forgive me if I totally screwed this spreadsheet up: graph edit: I suppose its kinda dumb to use void for that graph there, but its pretty impressive isn't it? 2 words: holy ** ------- Originally by:** Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Pattern Clarc Dark Destiny Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.02 23:59:00 - [132] Originally by: Hllaxiu I'm just using the defaults from NB's most recent spread sheet, so forgive me if I totally screwed this spreadsheet up: graph edit: I suppose its kinda dumb to use void for that graph there, but its pretty impressive isn't it? holy mother of god If it was just a pure gank ship, even with no speed bonuses or nothing, i'd be happy. :O Roden Shipyards? MWD cap penalty?
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.03 02:11:00 - [133] uhhh the double damage bonus is stupid tbh.
Depko	Posted - 2006.08.03 09:22:00 - [134] If you give Caldari pilot a Megathron equivalent, then I would like to see a Raven equivalent for Gallente. Make ship with 8x missiles, and an armor resitance . caldari tier 3 BS has a shiled resistance bous if i remember correctly. mWarp bonuses are useless by my opinion, unless you allow mWarp in deadspace missions. Can caldari BC use resistance bonuses only in normal space, can caldari ships use different damage types in normal space only, can caldari passive shield tank in normal space only ? do have other races skill raven to do lvl4 missions solo and fast ? why shouldnt caldari skill megathron if they want be snipers then ? why are the developers so caldari biased ? I think developers are making the life for Caladaris as easy as they can, but not so mauch for others.
Akiman	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:18:00 - [135] %25 bonus at lvl 5...its removing the penalty... İTS NOT A BONUS İMO ...just removing the penalty... but on the other hand bs has large cap by gettin removing the penalty it gets a good cap tho i dont think %5 is a good bonus if devs make it % 10 it'll be look like vindicator.me thinks removing mass ddition is FUN tho itll blow every fight imo. Another thing if u get a penalty to the locking range i think devs must give a bonus to her locking speed! for 1 downside there must be a 1 upside. and it'll help ship to do more dps by locking first. And yea there must be a tracking bonus tho if devs should do that it'll look like mega... Its a messed up situation imo. and i dont want a dampener bs .There is lachesis with 7 med slots.She can do damp job excellent. + by doing 6 lows? gallente do armor tanking.With 6 lows your tanking will not be good like mega... or cant do a good gank setup due to low low slots(where will we fit damage mods? plus a little tanking.) i dont want to shield tank a gallente ship they are not meant to but maybe we can fit 2 webs and forget the %5 tracking bonus? Hype has good mid slots but web is 10k... another down side... and LOL decreased drone bay? mega has long targeting range so mega is still usable so why decrease? heavy drones for close range dammit! couse they are DAMN slowww ...fix the drone speed lol ;) good thing is Tux said about huge cap which is good(couse we had a pain bout that hybrid cap drain) , light weight and speed so itll accelerate faster :) i love that . i say %7.5 rep or brand new bonus...liiike %5 velocity :P oorr... Rof...
KilROCK Minmatar Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:22:00 - [136] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Hllaxiu I'm just using the defaults from NB's most recent spread sheet, so forgive me if I totally screwed this spreadsheet up: graph edit: I suppose its kinda dumb to use void for that graph there, but its pretty impressive isn't it? holy mother of god If it was just a pure gank ship, even with no speed bonuses or nothing, i'd be happy. :O Hey, I think that's a fine ship! It might make the megathron obsolete with blasters when you have this much firepower coming out of your guns on the Hyperion but isn't that what everyone wants to see when it concerns blasters? Maybe with a double damage bonus, they'll finally look and act like the "most powerful gun in the game", yes the description of the guns. with over 1400 - 1600 DPS coming out of the guns, i wouldn't even care if the dronebay on it was 75m3. SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Akiman	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:37:00 - [137] They wont do domething like this tho imo if u look at the graph at 15k hyperion does the same damage of abaddon..so its reasonable... and this graph says: DONT GET CLOSE TO A BLASTER SHİP!!! which is correct...
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:51:00 - [138] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Hllaxiu I'm just using the defaults from NB's most recent spread sheet, so forgive me if I totally screwed this spreadsheet up: graph edit: I suppose its kinda dumb to use void for that graph there, but its pretty impressive isn't it? holy mother of god If it was just a pure gank ship, even with no speed bonuses or nothing, i'd be happy. :O Hey, I think that's a fine ship! It might make the megathron obsolete with blasters when you have this much firepower coming out of your guns on the Hyperion but isn't that what everyone wants to see when it concerns blasters? Maybe with a double damage bonus, they'll finally look and act like the "most powerful gun in the game", yes the description of the guns. with over 1400 - 1600 DPS coming out of the guns, i wouldn't even care if the dronebay on it was 75m3. exactly. and if the slot layout goes as it is (8-6-6), it is rather balanced if you think armor tanking with 6 lows, even if you don't try to cram dmg mods (honestly, who needs dmg mods with that firepower?) is a bit more limited than the megathron but doable. that leaves the 6 meds to play with. 1 mwd, 2 20km'ers, 2 webs, 1 injector. heck if you feel brave enough even fit 2 7,5km'ers instead the 20km ones or the injector for some sort of Ewar. ion blasters in highs so that you can get a bit more tracking and maybe light drones or even med target painter drones to help out with the tracking (do they work good?). the ship looks even overpowered now but then it comes to this: with a 40 to 50km targeting range and considering that beyond 15km the guns hit for crap, even neutrons, you can say that yes, the hyperion hits **in' hard, but like all blasterboats it needs to get close to even hit. btw, giergling came up with an interesting problem in another thread: can anyone give a graphic of the hyperion with dual 250's in gank mode? ------- Originally by:** Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:55:00 - [139] Dual damage looks juicy, but you have to remember that if it only has 6 lows, it has to sacrifice in either tanking or damage mods. And a lot of damage with a lesser tank is fine. So if you want that ~1500 DPS (with max skills mind you), you'll have to live with a laughable 3 slot tank. ---
KilROCK Minmatar Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:58:00 - [140] Originally by: Jin Entres Dual damage looks juicy, but you have to remember that if it only has 6 lows, it has to sacrifice in either tanking or damage mods. And a lot of damage with a lesser tank is fine. So if you want that ~1500 DPS (with max skills mind you), you'll have to live with a laughable 3 slot tank. I wouldn't do a 8/6/6 with dual damage bonus. But hey, a light shield tank + mwd, with 4 mag stab, misc module + damage control = quite sexy with a tackler. Sounds like a lachesis, with a shield tank and neutrons... SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Bazman Caldari The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:07:00 - [141] Ewww, Shield tanked blaster boat :P Could work I suppose, but damn, talk about compounding your cap problems :P An 8/6/6 layout, I would say, is not the best layout for a ship that's been stated to be a blasterboat 8/5/7 would be more suited. But again, I'm going to reserve judgement until I can see what I can do with it, no matter what slot setup it gets ----- Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:09:00 - [142] Edited by: Sarmaul on 03/08/2006 11:08:56 Maybe you should campain for an 8/7/4-5 layout seeing as Minny aren't allowed it :/ TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:10:00 - [143] oh and I totally forgot to post this: adding a RoF bonus will increase the blaster's cap usage, wich is a bit high already. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:11:00 - [144] Originally by: Akiman They wont do domething like this tho imo if u look at the graph at 15k hyperion does the same damage of abaddon..so its reasonable... and this graph says: DONT GET CLOSE TO A BLASTER SHİP!!! which is correct... Thats mighty fine advice, but considering its going to be faster than any other battleship (except perhaps the Tempest), that will be pretty hard advice to follow. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:22:00 - [145] Edited by: Sarmaul on 03/08/2006 11:26:45 Edited by: Sarmaul on 03/08/2006 11:26:17 Ion II x 8 MWD 20km x 1-2 Random ewar x 0-1 Web x 2 Cap Booster Large Rep x 2 EANM II x 2 Internal DC x 1 Magfield II x 1 Wouldn't be a bad little ship (assuming it got 25% rof and 25% damage and could actually fit the above setup). edit: fixed the amount of reps TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Bazman Caldari The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:24:00 - [146] Heres a radical idea 8/4/8 layout Blasterboats have never been big on mid slots, the way I see it, allowing a blasterboat space to field any sort of Electronic Warfare module other than webbers and scramblers is a very dangerous thing. Verging on overpowered I might add. Call me mad, but I like the fact that when I fly a blaster ship, I know that at conventional combat it is almost unbeatable, but against any EWAR, Capacitor Weapons or a specifically tanked ship etc, I am at an extreme disadvantage. An 8th low would allow you to beef up your tank to a 5 slot setup (assuming 3 Mag Field Stabs, ironically, 8 lows also gives the option to rival the other tier 3 Battleships with their tanking bonus') ----- Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:24:00 - [147] Originally by: Sarmaul Ion II x 8 MWD 20km x 1-2 Random ewar x 0-1 Web x 2 Cap Booster Large Rep x 1 EANM II x 2 Internal DC x 1 Magfield II x 1 Wouldn't be a bad little ship (assuming it got 25% rof and 25% damage and could actually fit the above setup). You are going for this ship too? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:25:00 - [148] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 03/08/2006 11:31:22 Originally by: Jin Entres Dual damage looks juicy, but you have to remember that if it only has 6 lows, it has to sacrifice in either tanking or damage mods. And a lot of damage with a lesser tank is fine. So if you want that ~1500 DPS (with max skills mind you), you'll have to live with a laughable 3 slot tank. 8/6/6? I'd fit something like: 8x neutrons/neutrons+ions, mwd, web, x-l sb2, 2x inv2, hvy electrochem, 3x pdus, 3dmg mods, 0-3 tracking mods. PDUs may be bumped up to RCUII or Co-proc 2 as necessary, and may be swapped to tracking enhancers based on performance. Just need a second guy for tackling - an Arazu would be a good choice as it'd be the warp in point too. Using a Rapier for the covert I could fit a scrambler instead. As asked for: With 2x250s Now heres the real problem for balance: With Null (thank you naughty boy for creating such an easy to use excel file) (edit: I should have had the dmg bonus only hyperion using neutrons like the megaT and the double damage hyp) (edit again: correct graphs are linked to) --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:29:00 - [149] Edited by: Grimpak on 03/08/2006 11:30:07 Originally by: Hllaxiu Edited by: Hllaxiu on 03/08/2006 11:26:55 Originally by: Jin Entres Dual damage looks juicy, but you have to remember that if it only has 6 lows, it has to sacrifice in either tanking or damage mods. And a lot of damage with a lesser tank is fine. So if you want that ~1500 DPS (with max skills mind you), you'll have to live with a laughable 3 slot tank. 8/6/6? I'd fit something like: 8x neutrons/neutrons+ions, mwd, web, x-l sb2, 2x inv2, hvy electrochem, 3x pdus, 3dmg mods, 0-3 tracking mods. PDUs may be bumped up to RCUII or Co-proc 2 as necessary, and may be swapped to tracking enhancers based on performance. Just need a second guy for tackling - an Arazu would be a good choice as it'd be the warp in point too. Using a Rapier for the covert I could fit a scrambler instead. As asked for: With 2x250s Now heres the real problem for balance: With Null (thank you naughty boy for creating such an easy to use excel file) with null it still gets outdamage by the geddon at 20 and few km. ...and you posted the same graph twice edit: and we can come up with the argument that some T2 ammo is overpowered here. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
KilROCK Minmatar Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:31:00 - [150] shield tanking isn't exactly gallente, and i don't see why it should be given the choice to EWAR, and shield tank... Unless of course they got screwed somewhere and are mixed with the 'big celestis/lachesis' approach.. SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:32:00 - [151] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 03/08/2006 11:34:26 Originally by: KilROCK shield tanking isn't exactly gallente, and i don't see why it should be given the choice to EWAR, and shield tank... Unless of course they got screwed somewhere and are mixed with the 'big celestis/lachesis' approach.. Dominix is a kinda nifty shield tank. (Some strange things can be done to the Eos too) --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
KilROCK Minmatar Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:34:00 - [152] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: KilROCK shield tanking isn't exactly gallente, and i don't see why it should be given the choice to EWAR, and shield tank... Unless of course they got screwed somewhere and are mixed with the 'big celestis/lachesis' approach.. Dominix is a kinda nifty shield tank. Haven't used dual 250mm II setup ever since they gave in the Invulnerability field boost, the way it sucks that i have lows and i am fairly attracted to fit stabs there, the way Javelin L sucks major butt on it and i want damage, more damage and having the same shield as a T1 Caracal isn't exactly fun when fitting that ammo. SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:35:00 - [153] Edited by: Grimpak on 03/08/2006 11:36:31 double post omg! ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:35:00 - [154] Originally by: Hllaxiu (edit again: correct graphs are linked to) well looks like the dual250 gank setup isn't that powerfull then, altho it can hit for a good range with good damage. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Celador Nane Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:47:00 - [155] Hmm to be honest i want to see a overgrown Taranis as my T3 gal BS, im just glad i just finished Gal BS L5 yesterday :) A nice flat +50% dam bonus at L5 will do me nicely thanks, R.O.F bonus's should all swaped for damage for lag + cap reasons anyway. Gank setup, plates in lows,webs n painter, goodnight raven torp spammer (after EW fix)
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:49:00 - [156] no ****nig way do i want 6 mid slots, im really annoiyed its getting 5. gallnete amror tank so the low slots are NEEDED High-Sec/Low-Sec Piracy Recruitment
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:50:00 - [157] Originally by: Bazman Heres a radical idea 8/4/8 layout Blasterboats have never been big on mid slots, the way I see it, allowing a blasterboat space to field any sort of Electronic Warfare module other than webbers and scramblers is a very dangerous thing. Verging on overpowered I might add. Call me mad, but I like the fact that when I fly a blaster ship, I know that at conventional combat it is almost unbeatable, but against any EWAR, Capacitor Weapons or a specifically tanked ship etc, I am at an extreme disadvantage. An 8th low would allow you to beef up your tank to a 5 slot setup (assuming 3 Mag Field Stabs, ironically, 8 lows also gives the option to rival the other tier 3 Battleships with their tanking bonus') I like this lsot layout! High-Sec/Low-Sec Piracy Recruitment
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:53:00 - [158] Originally by: Celador Nane Hmm to be honest i want to see a overgrown Taranis as my T3 gal BS, im just glad i just finished Gal BS L5 yesterday :) A nice flat +50% dam bonus at L5 will do me nicely thanks, R.O.F bonus's should all swaped for damage for lag + cap reasons anyway. Gank setup, plates in lows,webs n painter, goodnight raven torp spammer (after EW fix) /me starting Frigate 1 :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:03:00 - [159] I'd prefer a 8/5/7 and I'd fit a tracking computer in the 5th med
Blind Man Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:09:00 - [160] this thread makes me very very sad KilROCK's Forum Assistant
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:10:00 - [161] Originally by: Blind Man this thread makes me very very sad Go NPC in your Sleipnir :P TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:11:00 - [162] Originally by: Celador Nane Hmm to be honest i want to see a overgrown Taranis as my T3 gal BS, im just glad i just finished Gal BS L5 yesterday :) A nice flat +50% dam bonus at L5 will do me nicely thanks, R.O.F bonus's should all swaped for damage for lag + cap reasons anyway. Gank setup, plates in lows,webs n painter, goodnight raven torp spammer (after EW fix) well one of the reasons of the RoF bonus is exactly the cap consumption. Making the blasters less sustainable, while dishing great damage. and about the lag, large AC's have a lower RoF than large blasters. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Bishop 5 Gallente Perfect Order	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:34:00 - [163] The MWD bonus looks pants compared to the other ships' tanking bonus (bonii?) Please just give it the same sort of bonus as the Brutix (armour rep efficiency) or make it immune to NOS (lol) :P Or two damage bonussssesssesss... esss ------------- meh
Blind Man Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:38:00 - [164] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Blind Man this thread makes me very very sad Go NPC in your Sleipnir :P im probably selling it anyways once this 1.5k dps monster is released ;p KilROCK's Forum Assistant
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:39:00 - [165] Originally by: Blind Man Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Blind Man this thread makes me very very sad Go NPC in your Sleipnir :P im probably selling it anyways once this 1.5k dps monster is released ;p Seems to be a common thing amongst minmatar pilots currently. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:44:00 - [166] -sigh- Lately, I've been wishing I hadn't trained up tech II projectiles and had gone for hybrids instead. It seems the devs have this massive desire to keep making Gallente more and more uber to the point where they eclipse the other races' ships. While this is my personal opinion, it comes from extensive experience fighting Gallente ships. It also comes from some experiece flying them, too. During tests with a blasterthron on the test server, I was achieving the same kind of damage output with tech 1 named modules and very mediocre skills (level 3 large hybrid, level 3 gallente battleship) as I do with tech II weaponry on my tempest. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
locus 777 Gallente RONA Deepspace	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:46:00 - [167] how exactly is it going to hit for this uber damage if its tracking sucks? try a neutron on a domi, then a mega and tell me the tracking bonus doesn't make a difference. either its a blaster ship and gets blaster ship bonuses, or it deserves a complete new design.
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:52:00 - [168] Originally by: locus 777 how exactly is it going to hit for this uber damage if its tracking sucks? try a neutron on a domi, then a mega and tell me the tracking bonus doesn't make a difference. either its a blaster ship and gets blaster ship bonuses, or it deserves a complete new design. If it has 5 mids, fit a tracking computer to increase your range and tracking? A second web? TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Bazman Caldari The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:58:00 - [169] You do realise that this "1.5k DPS Monster" is purely based on speculation that the Hyp will have a rof bonus and a damage bonus (Unlikely) And that the effective DPS is usually alot lower for most of the fight. For the last time, Don't try and outgank a Gallente Blasterw***e! :P There are a million more ways to overcome them, pure DPS is not one of them :P ----- Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.03 13:01:00 - [170] Originally by: Bazman You do realise that this "1.5k DPS Monster" is purely based on speculation that the Hyp will have a rof bonus and a damage bonus (Unlikely) And that the effective DPS is usually alot lower for most of the fight. For the last time, Don't try and outgank a Gallente Blasterw***e! :P There are a million more ways to overcome them, pure DPS is not one of them :P Yes, those tactics are 1) Speed. Going to be virtually useless against the Hyperion 2) ECM. Getting nerfed 3) Nos. Getting nerfed TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.03 13:02:00 - [171] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Bazman You do realise that this "1.5k DPS Monster" is purely based on speculation that the Hyp will have a rof bonus and a damage bonus (Unlikely) And that the effective DPS is usually alot lower for most of the fight. For the last time, Don't try and outgank a Gallente Blasterw**e! :P There are a million more ways to overcome them, pure DPS is not one of them :P Yes, those tactics are 1) Speed. Going to be virtually useless against the Hyperion 2) ECM. Getting nerfed 3) Nos. Getting nerfed Exactly. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing* to this thread!"
Bazman Caldari The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.03 13:09:00 - [172] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Bazman You do realise that this "1.5k DPS Monster" is purely based on speculation that the Hyp will have a rof bonus and a damage bonus (Unlikely) And that the effective DPS is usually alot lower for most of the fight. For the last time, Don't try and outgank a Gallente Blasterw***e! :P There are a million more ways to overcome them, pure DPS is not one of them :P Yes, those tactics are 1) Speed. Going to be virtually useless against the Hyperion 2) ECM. Getting nerfed 3) Nos. Getting nerfed Is there any specifics on the ECM and Nos nerf btw? Is there any reason to believe that somehow the Hyp will become invunerable to being Jammed or Nossed? Tracking disrupting a Hyp thats using Null ammo is actually significant enough to reduce its damage alot unless its sitting right beside you and your both stationary. Sensor Dampening a ship with a base locking range of 50km is also going to be effective. How about sticking 3 Webber drones on the Hyp? Or ECM drones? How about MWDing away in your BS the moment you see a Hyperion warping in, forcing him to either disengage or burn all his cap following you? (With no guarantee it will actually catch up, because I'm sure Tux won't be stupid enough to make it faster than a Tempest) ----- Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.03 13:10:00 - [173] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Bazman You do realise that this "1.5k DPS Monster" is purely based on speculation that the Hyp will have a rof bonus and a damage bonus (Unlikely) And that the effective DPS is usually alot lower for most of the fight. For the last time, Don't try and outgank a Gallente Blasterw***e! :P There are a million more ways to overcome them, pure DPS is not one of them :P Yes, those tactics are 1) Speed. Going to be virtually useless against the Hyperion 2) ECM. Getting nerfed 3) Nos. Getting nerfed Hyper = Raven MK II
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 13:38:00 - [174] I want 1500 dps. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.03 13:40:00 - [175] Edited by: Wrayeth on 03/08/2006 13:40:36 I want an AC boat that isn't sub-par. EDIT: Not just battleships - on the command ship level, the sleipnir can't fit a web due to lack of slots. :P -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 13:42:00 - [176] Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 03/08/2006 13:40:36 I want an AC boat that isn't sub-par. EDIT: Not just battleships - on the command ship level, the sleipnir can't fit a web due to lack of slots. :P Just look at carriers and tell me minmatar doesnt suck. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.03 13:42:00 - [177] Originally by: Wrayeth -sigh- Lately, I've been wishing I hadn't trained up tech II projectiles and had gone for hybrids instead. It seems the devs have this massive desire to keep making Gallente more and more uber to the point where they eclipse the other races' ships. While this is my personal opinion, it comes from extensive experience fighting Gallente ships. It also comes from some experiece flying them, too. During tests with a blasterthron on the test server, I was achieving the same kind of damage output with tech 1 named modules and very mediocre skills (level 3 large hybrid, level 3 gallente battleship) as I do with tech II weaponry on my tempest. So that's why a ACtempest can shred a blasterthron a new one if it knows what it's doing? Cause of dps? Too small a part of the equation really. Double damage bonuses on the hyperion is bull if it can field 8 neutrons. ROF bonus and a tanking bonus... preferably resists, but doubt that since that's a amarrian bonus. And a 5th med for target painter ( better then tracking comp for short range since you don't need optimal ) and you'll do quite nicely.
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.03 13:45:00 - [178] Originally by: Jim McGregor Just look at carriers and tell me minmatar doesnt suck. QFT. That's the reason I trained Caldari battleship 5 instead of Minmatar battleship 5 when training for cap ships; the Caldari carrier is useful, while the Minmatar carrier blows. I can't fly either atm since I went for dreads first, but if I train for carriers in the future at least I'll be able to use one that doesn't suck all ass. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Celador Nane Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.03 14:03:00 - [179] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Celador Nane Hmm to be honest i want to see a overgrown Taranis as my T3 gal BS, im just glad i just finished Gal BS L5 yesterday :) A nice flat +50% dam bonus at L5 will do me nicely thanks, R.O.F bonus's should all swaped for damage for lag + cap reasons anyway. Gank setup, plates in lows,webs n painter, goodnight raven torp spammer (after EW fix) well one of the reasons of the RoF bonus is exactly the cap consumption. Making the blasters less sustainable, while dishing great damage. and about the lag, large AC's have a lower RoF than large blasters. Sorry wasnt been clear (im at work atm) i meant all ROF bonus's on all ships ingame ;) Anyway the range is the penalty for such great damage, if they seriously cap the locking range to low it will be useless for fleet fights, also 2 webbs/nos/ew/tracking dispruptors or a huggin is going to ruin this ships day.... badly, also take into account the short life of the fight using cap charges. But its gonan be alot of fun :) (if they do it)
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.03 14:47:00 - [180] Originally by: Celador Nane Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Celador Nane Hmm to be honest i want to see a overgrown Taranis as my T3 gal BS, im just glad i just finished Gal BS L5 yesterday :) A nice flat +50% dam bonus at L5 will do me nicely thanks, R.O.F bonus's should all swaped for damage for lag + cap reasons anyway. Gank setup, plates in lows,webs n painter, goodnight raven torp spammer (after EW fix) well one of the reasons of the RoF bonus is exactly the cap consumption. Making the blasters less sustainable, while dishing great damage. and about the lag, large AC's have a lower RoF than large blasters. Sorry wasnt been clear (im at work atm) i meant all ROF bonus's on all ships ingame ;) Anyway the range is the penalty for such great damage, if they seriously cap the locking range to low it will be useless for fleet fights, also 2 webbs/nos/ew/tracking dispruptors or a huggin is going to ruin this ships day.... badly, also take into account the short life of the fight using cap charges. But its gonan be alot of fun :) (if they do it) exactly ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Lobo Noturno	Posted - 2006.08.03 15:42:00 - [181] I'd say that, perhaps, CCP would be moving into the right direction changing the mwd cap bonus to something that increases speed. The MWD cap bonus is essentialy a tanking bonus, given that the extra cap will be used to tank. And a blaster ship should be a gank ship, not a tank, so I see no point on fitting a good active tank anyway. So that extra cap is either useless or can't be consumed fast enough to keep the ship alive during the approach and damage ownage phases. Now, if the ship bonus makes it faster, either by increasing top speed, or by making it accelerate faster, you will essentialy reach you optimal range faster, which means less damage taken on the approach phase. Your passive tank will last longer, maybe giving the time for you dps advantage to sink into the enemy armor and kill it before he kills you. I am not sure the bonus discussed is big enough to make it work well, but that's a balancing problem. The other bonus that could help would be a dampener bonus, since then you could just avoid being damaged during most of the approach phase. Two solutions to the same problem, I'd say. Lobo ps. Whatever works on the Hyperion, should be tried on the other gallente blaster ships. The MWD bonus doesn't help the thorax/vigilant either...
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.03 15:46:00 - [182] Originally by: Lobo Noturno I'd say that, perhaps, CCP would be moving into the right direction changing the mwd cap bonus to something that increases speed. The MWD cap bonus is essentialy a tanking bonus, given that the extra cap will be used to tank. And a blaster ship should be a gank ship, not a tank, so I see no point on fitting a good active tank anyway. So that extra cap is either useless or can't be consumed fast enough to keep the ship alive during the approach and damage ownage phases. Now, if the ship bonus makes it faster, either by increasing top speed, or by making it accelerate faster, you will essentialy reach you optimal range faster, which means less damage taken on the approach phase. Your passive tank will last longer, maybe giving the time for you dps advantage to sink into the enemy armor and kill it before he kills you. I am not sure the bonus discussed is big enough to make it work well, but that's a balancing problem. The other bonus that could help would be a dampener bonus, since then you could just avoid being damaged during most of the approach phase. Two solutions to the same problem, I'd say. Lobo ps. Whatever works on the Hyperion, should be tried on the other gallente blaster ships. The MWD bonus doesn't help the thorax/vigilant either... I don't know if you've actually flown blaster ships, but a tank is damn usefull
Crellion Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.03 18:17:00 - [183] I like Tux's update idea. If it makes you go close to say 800 with ab and good skills its almost a win button blastership :P
InnerDrive	Posted - 2006.08.03 18:52:00 - [184] Edited by: InnerDrive on 03/08/2006 18:55:33 Edited by: InnerDrive on 03/08/2006 18:54:32 Been breaking my head over this ship for days now and.. DRONE BAY: Give it a proper drone bay like the mega allready has. THE BONUS: -5% damage per level = nice and kinda default - SPEED or some sorda speed increasing bonus related to mwds and mass.. = NO, a ship shoudent be based around a mwd, instead why not just give it a flat speed increase by giving it a very high(in bs terms) base speed? - u wanna make it really fast , its a blaster battleship , but u dont wanna give it a tracking bonus? = prepare to get owned by fast cruisers and frigs without ya tracking and drones! I think ill stick with the mega as my blastership tyvm.
Blind Man Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.03 19:38:00 - [185] nidhugger needs a shield boost bonus tbh KilROCK's Forum Assistant
Zyxlo Gallente Gravis Corp	Posted - 2006.08.03 21:29:00 - [186] Tbh, 8/5/7 or 8/4/8 won't cut imho cause those slot layouts are of Vindicator and of GN Megatron and Federation Issue Megathron. Giving those slot layouts to new ships would make those ships useless (kinda). And what is the fuss with 8 high turret slots. With the given out stats, fitting 8 ions would max out grid and surpass put aside the 'so wanted dual LAR2' wish. 8/6/6 is useless imho for a ship that is not shield tanking and that is not long range also. 2 negatives don't make a positive so i'll pass. Instead i'd settle for 7/6/7 slot layout with a little more pg and cpu to fit dual rep/ion setup or neutron+1LAR2. And 125 m¦ drone bay on top. %7.5 to tracking and dmg would be fine or dmg and rof (rof is a long shot though). If you really want a 8 turret ship, give mega 8th turret, increase cpu and powergrid and give it %10 to optimal by bs lvl instead of tracking and problem solved. Oh and please could we have 800 m¦ cargo bay? Or Capacitor Bay just to store cap charges?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 21:30:00 - [187] Originally by: Zyxlo Or Capacitor Bay just to store cap charges? Yes! --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Nicocat Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 21:38:00 - [188] reads first page... or first few posts hmm's and inserts flamebait Or maybe... instead of giving the Hyperion some silly bonus to make it uber, let's leave the cap bonus and just have a single, honest to God Gallente ship that is balanced... nay, it may even suck? ---------------------------- The opinions expressed by Nico do not reflect his corporation. He's just an ass. -Alexi Yes, I PvP in a Hookbill. How insane am I? EVE-Mail me and tell me!
Lobo Noturno	Posted - 2006.08.03 21:54:00 - [189] Originally by: Deathbarrage I don't know if you've actually flown blaster ships, but a tank is damn usefull Deathbarrage, No, I am not a usual PVP fighter(still learning those RL skills), but I used most of the Gallente setups and I am familiar with the royal pain in the ass that is approaching the enemy under fire. Problem with active tanks on these ships is that it is usually Armor based, and each repair takes very long to happen. And the whole objective of a blaster ship is getting close enough to dish out so much damage the guy will drop way before you do. If I am not mistaken, the most used Thorax setup for PVP includes a 1600mm armor plate, and no repper. I'd say it's the same problem for a battleship. That's why I'd rather approach faster than have more capacitor.(which, by the way, is usually sustained by cap booster, making any cap bonus even more useless) Lobo
CasC Gallente digital-Underground	Posted - 2006.08.03 22:03:00 - [190] Hey! Can anyone tell me were i can check the stats of the Hyperion? cuz i cant find it on the test server! Thanks! :)
Zyxlo Gallente Gravis Corp	Posted - 2006.08.03 22:19:00 - [191] Originally by: Lobo Noturno Problem with active tanks on these ships is that it is usually Armor based, and each repair takes very long to happen. Lobo So true, even 2 LAR2 with 5 hardeners won't save ypu most of the time cause it takes too long to finish cycle (11.25 sec duration with max skills iirc). Problem is people who shield tank have an advantage over armor tankers but they also think that armor tanking is superior just because Apoc can sustain 2 LAR2 non stop. Armor tanking should be looked at but heck.. We need skills to ; shorten armor repair duration, increase armor repair amount, decrease armor repairer cap needs, decrease armor rep pg fitting reqs etc., etc..
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.03 22:38:00 - [192] Originally by: Zyxlo Tbh, 8/5/7 or 8/4/8 won't cut imho cause those slot layouts are of Vindicator and of GN Megatron and Federation Issue Megathron. Giving those slot layouts to new ships would make those ships useless (kinda). How do you plan on getting a Federation Issue Megathron? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Zyxlo Gallente Gravis Corp	Posted - 2006.08.03 22:46:00 - [193] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Zyxlo Tbh, 8/5/7 or 8/4/8 won't cut imho cause those slot layouts are of Vindicator and of GN Megatron and Federation Issue Megathron. Giving those slot layouts to new ships would make those ships useless (kinda). How do you plan on getting a Federation Issue Megathron? I can dream.. Just waiting on GN Megathron that is if my agents decides to offer and if he can see the mega from under the pile of implants he has been offering.
fmercury Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.03 23:25:00 - [194] I'd be all over a 10% damage/level bonus a la taranis.
Myrk Reinhart	Posted - 2006.08.04 09:42:00 - [195] Originally by: locus 777 how exactly is it going to hit for this uber damage if its tracking sucks? try a neutron on a domi, then a mega and tell me the tracking bonus doesn't make a difference. either its a blaster ship and gets blaster ship bonuses, or it deserves a complete new design. QFT If this ship gets a new midslot it's gonna be used to 2nd web or a trackingcomputer get par with a megaT... wtf is the point of giving a ship an extra midslot that must be used for tracking issues anyway? You give with one hand and immediatly take it with the other hand. And at the same time you take away a needed lowslot for tanking?
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.04 09:48:00 - [196] Originally by: Lobo Noturno Originally by: Deathbarrage I don't know if you've actually flown blaster ships, but a tank is damn usefull Deathbarrage, No, I am not a usual PVP fighter(still learning those RL skills), but I used most of the Gallente setups and I am familiar with the royal pain in the ass that is approaching the enemy under fire. Problem with active tanks on these ships is that it is usually Armor based, and each repair takes very long to happen. And the whole objective of a blaster ship is getting close enough to dish out so much damage the guy will drop way before you do. If I am not mistaken, the most used Thorax setup for PVP includes a 1600mm armor plate, and no repper. I'd say it's the same problem for a battleship. That's why I'd rather approach faster than have more capacitor.(which, by the way, is usually sustained by cap booster, making any cap bonus even more useless) Lobo actually that thorax setup includes both a 1600mm plate and a repper hehe, anyway most megathron setups i've used and most people i know use include 2 large reppers and that works fine for me
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.04 10:17:00 - [197] I don't really see why Gallente should have the 3 hardest hitting ships in the game... DPS/EW is king in small fights... and if the Hyperion gets 8/6/6 can fit and gets a double damage bonus theirs no reason not to fit rails on it and use it as an ew platform that deals great damage at all ranges.... or a ship that can deal stupid damage at ranges that nothing can compete with... oh and it has 2 extra mids? Yeah, sounds balanced to me.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.04 10:23:00 - [198] Originally by: Altai Saker I don't really see why Gallente should have the 3 hardest hitting ships in the game... DPS/EW is king in small fights... and if the Hyperion gets 8/6/6 can fit and gets a double damage bonus theirs no reason not to fit rails on it and use it as an ew platform that deals great damage at all ranges.... or a ship that can deal stupid damage at ranges that nothing can compete with... oh and it has 2 extra mids? Yeah, sounds balanced to me. It will have a really crappy targeting range to make it a blaster ship only. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.04 10:46:00 - [199] gee and I figured you could fit a sensor booster on it.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.04 10:46:00 - [200] Originally by: Altai Saker I don't really see why Gallente should have the 3 hardest hitting ships in the game... DPS/EW is king in small fights... and if the Hyperion gets 8/6/6 can fit and gets a double damage bonus theirs no reason not to fit rails on it and use it as an ew platform that deals great damage at all ranges.... or a ship that can deal stupid damage at ranges that nothing can compete with... oh and it has 2 extra mids? Yeah, sounds balanced to me. i highly doubt it'll have a double damage bonus, more like 5% dmg and 7,5% armor effectiveness
Celador Nane Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.04 10:52:00 - [201] Originally by: Altai Saker gee and I figured you could fit a sensor booster on it. The simple solution would be to either cap the locking range at 40km for this ship, or "+10% Large blaster damage per level" Its meant to be a blaster boat after all. /me prays for his giant pimped Taranis with go faster stripes and a coffee holder with pink furry dice on the windscreen
Miner altski	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:41:00 - [202] Originally by: Jim McGregor I want 1500 dps. So do i :), i want a ship that will = death if u let it get close range, but also is vunerable to web/ew/nos and smaller ships (with nerfed dronebay + no room for nos with 8 guns 2 HACS will eat this puppy up) <Another alt who cant be botherd to change his main to default>
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:44:00 - [203] Originally by: Zyxlo Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Zyxlo Tbh, 8/5/7 or 8/4/8 won't cut imho cause those slot layouts are of Vindicator and of GN Megatron and Federation Issue Megathron. Giving those slot layouts to new ships would make those ships useless (kinda). How do you plan on getting a Federation Issue Megathron? I can dream.. Just waiting on GN Megathron that is if my agents decides to offer and if he can see the mega from under the pile of implants he has been offering. There is one Federation MegaT in game, and IIRC kieron said at one point that that would be the only one ever issued. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind	Posted - 2006.08.04 16:38:00 - [204] Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 04/08/2006 16:38:42 Originally by: Ithildin Here's my take on it. Tanking bonus. This tend to be a bit boring. Notice how all other tier 3 battleship get them? Well, it isn't that interesting then and we need more ship that stick out and are original, not more ships that conform to some sort of symmetry. Well It can be good and bad. repairer effectivness is quite nice would be in line with Brutix . Then again like you I favor exotic stuff. Originally by: Ithildin Additional damage bonus. While very, very, attractive the problem is that this might make the ship a bit too good in addition to that it feeds the community's damage fenzy, which is a bad thing for future community feedback. Do you think the blaster specifiq bonus is too narrow ? How about 5% to large hybrids 5% to large blasters + 5% large blaster falloff. Its not that bad idea when you think of it even wihtout the falloff bonus. If you want to snipe use Rokh IMO .. Or 5% to large hybrids x 2 and a 30-40 KM locking range. how about that ?
Crellion Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.04 18:04:00 - [205] Originally by: Altai Saker gee and I figured you could fit a sensor booster on it. Liek you fit 3 sensors on a Mega to do 240 uber batles and you ll fit 6 sensor boosters on the Hyperion to do the same Stacking Penalty Settled.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.04 18:19:00 - [206] Originally by: fmercury I'd be all over a 10% damage/level bonus a la taranis. well the reason for a RoF + dmg bonus is actually a simple one. since blasters consume a hefty ammout of cap, if you increase the rate of fire of them they will be a bit more unsustainable in normal situations. yeah ok you have cap charges, but a gun that gives allot of damage while consuming a pretty hefty ammout of cap is somewhat a balacing factor itself. I like to think of the Hyperion as a fast and nimble battleship with average tanking but capable to deal allot of close range punishment in a very short period of time. btw another question: can anyone come up with how much cap will 8 guns (more specifically T2 electrons, ions and neutrons) consume with AM, null and void using a RoF bonus? ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.04 19:03:00 - [207] Originally by: Glarion Garnier Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 04/08/2006 16:38:42 Originally by: Ithildin Here's my take on it. Tanking bonus. This tend to be a bit boring. Notice how all other tier 3 battleship get them? Well, it isn't that interesting then and we need more ship that stick out and are original, not more ships that conform to some sort of symmetry. Well It can be good and bad. repairer effectivness is quite nice would be in line with Brutix . Then again like you I favor exotic stuff. The repair amount bonus is a tanker's bonus. The otherwise Amarrian resistance bonus is a buffert bonus. Blasters need a buffert bonus, not a tanker bonus. You see, tanking requires module use, which in turn requires hefty amounts of PG, CPU and capacitor, which is something a blaster ship has less of than many others. If Tuxford now goes for some sort of tanking bonus, I hope it'll be a more exotic tanking bonus. Even though straight hit point bonus isn't very Gallente, that's something I'm missing in all but one ship (and that ship, sadly, had that bonus removed). It's difficult. Tanking isn't one thing that blaster ships are supposed to do. Oh, and I highly doubt that they'll assign a blaster-specific bonus. As for the suggested 2x dmg bonus and 30-40km lock range... well the Hyperion's going to get around 40km lock range already, so... In either case, the point is that double damage bonus on 8 blasters is, how to put it, too much something silly. Personally I'm in favour of a straight mass reduction bonus (not just for MWD) atm Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Markiv Ideb	Posted - 2006.08.04 19:16:00 - [208] what would be killer for the hyperion, would be the ability to "warp to" ships, at maybe 30km (if they're already 100km away or whatever). Someone on some thread suggested that the gallente blaster BS was going to have this ability, and I was ecstatic. Screw the rest of it, that capability would make up for all of it's problems.
Phrixus Zephyr Singularity.	Posted - 2006.08.04 19:24:00 - [209] Originally by: Markiv Ideb what would be killer for the hyperion, would be the ability to "warp to" ships, at maybe 30km (if they're already 100km away or whatever). Someone on some thread suggested that the gallente blaster BS was going to have this ability, and I was ecstatic. Screw the rest of it, that capability would make up for all of it's problems. Despite being a Gallente pilot, i'd rather leave game mechanics alone if you don't mind. Originally by: El Berto ...aparently being European makes me the spawn of Cthulhu.
Markiv Ideb	Posted - 2006.08.04 19:34:00 - [210] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Markiv Ideb what would be killer for the hyperion, would be the ability to "warp to" ships, at maybe 30km (if they're already 100km away or whatever). Someone on some thread suggested that the gallente blaster BS was going to have this ability, and I was ecstatic. Screw the rest of it, that capability would make up for all of it's problems. Despite being a Gallente pilot, i'd rather leave game mechanics alone if you don't mind. ah, but I do mind.
Magunus The Forsakened Few	Posted - 2006.08.04 19:47:00 - [211] Originally by: Ithildin <snip> If Tuxford now goes for some sort of tanking bonus, I hope it'll be a more exotic tanking bonus. Even though straight hit point bonus isn't very Gallente, that's something I'm missing in all but one ship (and that ship, sadly, had that bonus removed). It's difficult. Tanking isn't one thing that blaster ships are supposed to do. <snip> Maybe instead of some bonus to the use of MWD, what about a bonus to speed boost given by an AB, say 10%/BS level? No other ship I know of has a bonus to AB use, so it'd be new and different. It'd mean you keep your cap, you don't increase your sig, and you're still fast enough to get in range fairly quickly, but you wouldn't be as fast as a BS with a MWD. I'd guess you could get to 400mps pretty easy, better with some speed mods and/or inertial stabilizers. You'd still get webbed, but you'd have more PG, CPU and cap to tank with. I don't fly it, and don't plan to, but that thought just sprang into my head. --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
Wintermoon Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.08.04 20:02:00 - [212] Has nobody considered giving it a 10% falloff bonus like many other (smaller) blasterboats? Nice mirror to the 10% optimal bonus of the rokh. Also it is fairly limited on a rail ship but quite useful on a close range ships. Other ships that have the bonus are the incursus, catalyst and eris for example.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.04 20:12:00 - [213] Originally by: Wintermoon Has nobody considered giving it a 10% falloff bonus like many other (smaller) blasterboats? Nice mirror to the 10% optimal bonus of the rokh. Also it is fairly limited on a rail ship but quite useful on a close range ships. Other ships that have the bonus are the incursus, catalyst and eris for example. A blaster falloff bonus would be even less useful than a MWD capacitor anti-nerf. It's borderline useful on AC's, and they've got the falloff to boot. Oh, and the Incursus isn't exactly known for making use of that bonus, and the Catalyst is actually being boosted by the static +150% optimal bonus, while the Eris is a T2 ship with a few more bonuses behind it's belt. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Talori'i Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.08.04 20:12:00 - [214] Originally by: Wintermoon Has nobody considered giving it a 10% falloff bonus like many other (smaller) blasterboats? Nice mirror to the 10% optimal bonus of the rokh. Also it is fairly limited on a rail ship but quite useful on a close range ships. Other ships that have the bonus are the incursus, catalyst and eris for example. yeah I would like to see the graph with the 10% falloff and see what that looks like 4 8 15 16 23 42
Jago X	Posted - 2006.08.04 20:45:00 - [215] hmm well the reasons for not using a falloff bonus have more to do with not making the tempest completely obselete than they do with not bieng a useful bonus on a blaster bonus imo. Neutron Blaster Cannon : 10km base falloff +25% for lvl5 Trajectory Analysis +25% null ammo gives you about 15.6km falloff with 10% per level BS bonus that goes to about 23.4km (correct me if im wrong here - my maths is terrible) then also maybe consider putting a couple of tracking computers ontop of that now add that to the optimal and suddenly you have a blasterboat that can hit out almost as far as a tempest for much greater damage and with much better tracking .
Levin Cavil Lucid Ambition	Posted - 2006.08.04 22:33:00 - [216] Originally by: Jago X hmm well the reasons for not using a falloff bonus have more to do with not making the tempest completely obselete than they do with not bieng a useful bonus on a blaster bonus imo. Neutron Blaster Cannon : 10km base falloff +25% for lvl5 Trajectory Analysis +25% null ammo gives you about 15.6km falloff with 10% per level BS bonus that goes to about 23.4km (correct me if im wrong here - my maths is terrible) then also maybe consider putting a couple of tracking computers ontop of that now add that to the optimal and suddenly you have a blasterboat that can hit out almost as far as a tempest for much greater damage and with much better tracking . Rohk anyone? ---------- Eve is balanced: Caldari have to train Rails Minmatar have to train Missiles Gallente have to train Drones Amarr have to train Caldari
InnerDrive	Posted - 2006.08.15 10:34:00 - [217] Its been a while since Tux replys on here concerning the Hyperion. So how is the ship gonna be like that? Any news on it ? (Tux?)
Antoinette Civari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.15 10:52:00 - [218] Originally by: InnerDrive Its been a while since Tux replys on here concerning the Hyperion. So how is the ship gonna be like that? Any news on it ? (Tux?) The last thing he said was some ridiculous stuff about an agility or mass bonus so I'm not very optimistic about getting any good news.
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.15 10:54:00 - [219] A lot of people here seem to be pushing for gun related bonuses to replace the MWD cap non-bonus and the suggested falloff bonus does have a certain amount of appeal. The idea of an armour rep bonus leaves me cold I'm afraid. I'd rather see a bonus somehow related to getting into range fast. The extra acceleration control option looks good. With pre-existing low mass and high agility, (from what information we have on the Hyperion) the Stabber's flat speed bonus could also work quite nicely. Either way, the main problem with a Battleship sized blaster boat is getting into range, and I'd like to see the second bonus fix that.
Lucian Alucard Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.08.15 11:22:00 - [220] Originally by: Rod Blaine Well, the problem is tha tthe hyperion alreayd looks like a better mega to me. Two more meds, one more gun = win. Like I need that tracking bonus at 160km Not to mention that one good tracking comp already compensates for most of the missing bonus. So yeah, let's cut the crap and redesign the Hyperion to be a medslot heavy allround hybrid ship. One that can use both rails and blasters but is mainly based around a good tank and higher then normal medslots. I'd assume that in that case the megathron would finally get the changes it needs to become a viable blasterboat. As thing stand now, I can only see the hyperion fail harshly or pwn solidly. Either wya there'll only be whining. To be honest I think a dampening boat would be more useful but the Rohk would still probably be a better tub to use as a sheild tank/blaster boat then the Hyperion due to the fact it will have a resistance bonus and enough mids to have a mwd+tank as well as a slot free for a warp sram even if it has 6 mids (which I doubt it will since the natural progression would be 7)) it would still have a sturdy tank since it really would only need 1 Invulnerability Feild II, now factor in the 8 guns,IFFA,and spar lows for damage mods the Rohk will do enough damage to overide the Hyperion or Megs tank befor befor the Rohks tank gives. Most Bthron pilots I have met aggree that a meg can take a raven but it is a close fight this makes it even more so since tho most people think the optimal boni for blasters is crud I have found it to help loads when using a BlastaMoa. Tho this will most likely be null since all you would need to do is kit a second nos on a bthron,6 Ion IIs,VOID L and 2 Dim nos in my mind would do the trick but then again its likely the devs are one step a head and will royaly nerf the cap amount on the Rohk.
fmercury Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.15 11:29:00 - [221] Originally by: Lucian Alucard To be honest I think a dampening boat would be more useful but the Rohk would still probably be a better tub to use as a sheild tank/blaster boat then the Hyperion due to the fact it will have a resistance bonus and enough mids to have a mwd+tank as well as a slot free for a warp sram even if it has 6 mids (which I doubt it will since the natural progression would be 7)) it would still have a sturdy tank since it really would only need 1 Invulnerability Feild II, now factor in the 8 guns,IFFA,and spar lows for damage mods the Rohk will do enough damage to overide the Hyperion or Megs tank befor befor the Rohks tank gives. Most Bthron pilots I have met aggree that a meg can take a raven but it is a close fight this makes it even more so since tho most people think the optimal boni for blasters is crud I have found it to help loads when using a BlastaMoa. You win the longest sentence ever award.
Valerian Xavier Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.08.15 11:36:00 - [222] Originally by: Alex Tremayne A lot of people here seem to be pushing for gun related bonuses to replace the MWD cap non-bonus and the suggested falloff bonus does have a certain amount of appeal. The idea of an armour rep bonus leaves me cold I'm afraid. I'd rather see a bonus somehow related to getting into range fast. The extra acceleration control option looks good. With pre-existing low mass and high agility, (from what information we have on the Hyperion) the Stabber's flat speed bonus could also work quite nicely. Either way, the main problem with a Battleship sized blaster boat is getting into range, and I'd like to see the second bonus fix that. make it a very nice speed bonus and i'd sign for this. could be a really fun ship to fly. otherwise, might as well give it the tanking bonus to keep up with the other tier 3's ---
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.15 12:01:00 - [223] Originally by: Valerian Xavier make it a very nice speed bonus and i'd sign for this. could be a really fun ship to fly. otherwise, might as well give it the tanking bonus to keep up with the other tier 3's The other option that occurred to me was a 5%/level bonus to the effectiveness of Nanofibres and Inertial stabilisers. I suspect it would be too massively unbalanced though.
Taurgil Balanced Unity	Posted - 2006.08.15 21:49:00 - [224] Originally by: Guriko in fact, 2 "powerful" blasterships are a nonsens, we want versatility /agreed @ 100%
Talori'i Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.08.15 22:39:00 - [225] 5% to large hybrid damage, 10% to drones hitpoints, damage and Chribba's mining fetish. The ultimate Gallente damage dealer, I think. 4 8 15 16 23 42
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.16 13:01:00 - [226] Originally by: Talori'i 5% to large hybrid damage, 10% to drones hitpoints, damage and Chribba's mining fetish. The ultimate Gallente damage dealer, I think. And what would you do with the Dominix which already has those bonuses?
Magnus Thermopyle Chosen Path	Posted - 2006.08.16 13:46:00 - [227] Why does this ship has to be so terrible limited, when the other tier 3 BS have plenty of options, and is well suited for many different situations? Cant we just have a ship with normal locking range, normal speed, normal gun bonuses and a bonus to armor/shield resistance? It would still be useful as a blaster boat, but would also be nice for fleet PvP and PvE. For example: - 5% bonus to damage/level - 5% bonus to shield and armor resistance/level - 8 turret hardpoint - 5 mid slots - 7 low slots - Enough PG and CPU to fit 8 neutron blasters with armor tank.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.

WTS Estamel's Modified X-Large Shield Booster

SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS

SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS

WTS Estamel's Modified X-Large Shield Booster

SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS

SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS

SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS

SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS

KilROCK's Forum Assistant

KilROCK's Forum Assistant

KilROCK's Forum Assistant