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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Sinsemillia
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Posted - 2003.10.09 02:26:00 -
[91]
 Quote:
Yeah if you've known the guy for a long time and trust him it's pretty easy to prove neither of you stole it by providing eachother with username/password and checking eachother's wallets. Although this might be against the EULA =/
So is account sharing/logging into others account against the EULA? If so surely that means...
Quote:
GM - I would believe them on this they did prove to me that my problem with our bp was not a bug, but I have log in access to all the core members that have access to that hanger and was able to go through the journal to find where the problem was. But even knowing that there is a valid bug that I have tested that you can remove a bp from a secure hanger and no one would ever know. We are changing our security measures to compensate for this exploitable bug, until I get a response on my bug report that I placed today. I will not list the details because of the possible expliot. But if your bp's are in your personal hanger this cannot happen.
No better evidence than self confession.....
A proud member of the Concord Waste Recovery Team |
Sinsemillia
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Posted - 2003.10.09 02:30:00 -
[92]
Taken from the EULA
2. YOUR ACCOUNTØ
Ø
You may establish only one (1) account for each copy of the Software licensed. If you wish to establish another Account, you must obtain another license for the Software (you may be able to do this by purchasing another boxed version of the Software).Ø
Ø
A. Establishing a New AccountØ
Ø
When it is first run, the Software will prompt you to register a new Account online. Upon establishing a new Account, you will be entitled to play EVEÖ for thirty (30) days without paying the subscription fee (the "Trial Period"). If your Account is not terminated in accordance with the procedures set forth below within that thirty (30) day period, you will be charged the subscription fees as described during the registration process when you established your Account.Ø
Ø
Only an individual, natural person who is an adult or, in the discretion of such an adult, his or her minor child, may establish an Account. You are responsible and liable for all activities conducted through your Account, regardless of who conducts those activities.Ø
Ø
You may not share your Account with anyone, or allow anyone other than you personally (or your minor child, if you have registered an Account on behalf of your minor child) to access or use your Account. Joint or shared ownership or use of an Account by more than one user is prohibited.Ø
Ø
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVEÖ is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVEÖ. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited.Ø
So what do the GM's plan to do about this?
A proud member of the Concord Waste Recovery Team |
Singular
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Posted - 2003.10.09 03:11:00 -
[93]
Quote:
Just to set the record straight, this is not a bug.
We can't name any names, but the corp in question should really look within their own ranks for the culprit. We know exactly where the blueprints are at this moment, and they did not just *vanish*
Some people should need an internet liscense to be aloud to post.
Im Yo Huckleberreh |
PaulAtreides
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Posted - 2003.10.09 03:17:00 -
[94]
Playboy was the perfect corp!
It is a shame to see a whole corp get ruined due to this. Neither one of the people with read / right access to the blueprints would possibly ever consider giving them away. It's inconcievable. If you know Heff or Dora at all you will know what I mean. They are top class people!!
Personaly: I fell in love with the idea of Eve the second I heard about it...It's a pity the GM's of CCP can't admit to a bug.
TomB is the man though:
Quote:
TomB> It is a known issue and a fix is being worked on.
They need to sort this out! This is unacceptable!
Want to work for me? |
Crunch Freeman
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Posted - 2003.10.09 04:40:00 -
[95]
Some of you people need to re read the CSM chat again. You keep quoting TomB and attributing it to this situation. You have taken this quote completely out of context.
ôTomB> It is a known issue and a fix is being worked onö
This quote you keep using is actually an answer to EzTargetÆs question
ôEzTarget> I've been reading the forums while in this CSM meeting, and I've noticed that some people are having problems with BP's not ejecting correctly (into another corps's hanger in one case) when they are part way though a research and the lease runs out. Is there any official word on how this will be fixed?ö
Then TomB answered with the above quote. Pann then asked if EZÆs question had been answered and TomB said yes. Seeing that a GM said it was one of the two who has access to the slot and that one of the two had taken them and transferred them to an alt it is clear that the question EzTarget asked has no relation to this problem. Get it right people before you start misquoting people and starting a wildfire of protest by taking the answer from one question and attributing to another.
ôPann> Here's what I found out from Ender: It was the other guy who stole them and transferred them to his alt. There were only two of them with access to the slot and the logs are very clear about it. There is an open petition/ongoing investigation and the involved parties should be hearing from Support soon about the matter. If you have any other questions, you can e-mail support directly.ö
I feel sorry that this has happened to playboy and think the GMÆs need to make their logs pertaining to this incident available to Heff so he can see exactly what happened, but you people who misquote are not helping this matter, only making it worse.
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Cruise
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Posted - 2003.10.09 05:14:00 -
[96]
Okay, just to get the story straight here:
"Jash Illian> Okay, today a rather large scale corp theft made news. Large numbers of Playboy Enterprises may be leaving shortly as some of their top blueprints went MIA. According to GM Ender it is an internal matter, but Heff would still like to know the details of what happened.
"Jash Illian> And I'd like to know if I'm missing something as I've never been able to track hangar/slot usage
"Pann> Let me contact Ender for a response. EZ, go ahead with your question while I do that.
"Jash Illian> which would be critical to 'investigating in-house' as GM Ender suggested
"EzTarget> I've been reading the forums while in this CSM meeting, and I've noticed that some people are having problems with BP's not ejecting correctly (into another corps's hanger in one case) when they are part way though a research and the lease runs out. Is there any offical word on how this will be fixed?
"EzTarget> And I've just asked the same Q as Jash, nice one there lol
"EzTarget> /emoteBangs head on nearby brick wall....
"Roulette> !
"Jash Illian> not the same question Ez
"Latta> I would like to go a bit off topic and suggest we (non-ccp) meet a day or 2 hours before to discuss our questions and issues
"Latta> discuss this afterwards
"EzTarget> it is, I was reading the playboy posts while I wrote that up, Heff's not happy and another Playboy char is asking about selling his/her acount on e-bay because of it....
"Latta> it worries me too
"Vegeta> /emoteknows how it was done, and it IS an exploit
"TomB> It is a known issue and a fix is being worked on
"Pann> Ack! How embarassing. My node dropped. *blush*
"Pann> Was EZ's question answered?
"TomB> yes
"Pann> Here's what I found out from Ender: It was the other guy who stole them and transferred them to his alt. There were only two of them with access to the slot and the logs are very clear about it. There is an open petition/ongoing investigation and the involved parties should be hearing from Support soon about the matter. If you have any other questions, you can e-mail support directly."
Okay, there's the section I was referring to, perhaps in too condensed a fashion beforehand, my apologies for any misconstruance.
In my reading of this I note that EzTarget mentioned his question AND Jash's BOTH dealt specifically with the situation Heff's been facing, Ez specifiying more in detail the alleged bug with BP's and corp hangars.
Tom appeared to have addressed only the known bug issue, a first that I've seen from them on the acknowledgement that the bug is known to them.
It took a week of waiting before Heff brought all of this to light in the forums, since CCP didn't seem to be doing much about it at their end. I can understand that would be damned frustrating, considering the impact that would have on the corp. A week while rumours and heated speculation must have been rife in Heff's corp.
CCP had the logs and only when it became a heated issue in the forums did Heff get any real response from CCP. Who can blame him for being dissillusioned about the matter, particularly when he had NO answers at the CEO level and a possible bug that could explain things, but STILL CCP refused to clue him in.
Result: Lost players and a lot of negative fallout in how CCP handled this.
-------------------------------------------
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
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GraveDigger
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Posted - 2003.10.09 05:17:00 -
[97]
Edited by: GraveDigger on 09/10/2003 05:24:04
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Xelios
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Posted - 2003.10.09 05:22:00 -
[98]
"It took a week of waiting before Heff brought all of this to light in the forums, since CCP didn't seem to be doing much about it at their end. "
This is the part that worries me the most out of all of this. When billions of isk worth of blueprints disappear with no way for the CEO to track them there should be a faster response from CCP, hell it should get resolved in a day not a week.
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Lucas De'Thal
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Posted - 2003.10.09 05:56:00 -
[99]
so in the end it was Heff's 10 year friend that ganked him?
think he needs to head on over and start the whoop azz on his friend then.
why would he do it? he was bored or was planning to ebay it maybe?
conspiracy's are always fun.
______________________________________________
Hellmar > sorry for the attitude, playing a n00b character through the current state just left me a bit bitter
dev chat: Mar 18, 2004
hellmar> "you lot are just so clever you have a good history for out smarting us :-S "
dev chat: Feb 12, 2004 |
Dora
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Posted - 2003.10.09 06:07:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Dora on 09/10/2003 06:11:40
If I am "the other guy" CCP is referring to, I can assure you that I did not steal blueprints from my own corp. CCP, you have my permission to tattle on me if I am the one who did this.
Offices for sale: http://www.grafweb.com/playboy/pb_offices.htm
Dora
CEO Playboy Enterprises
Chnnl: PLAYBOY
E-ml: playboy_ |
Heff
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Posted - 2003.10.09 06:10:00 -
[101]
Quote:
If I am "the other guy" CCP is referring to, I can assure you that I did not steal blueprints from my own corp. CCP, you have my permission to tattle on me if I am the one who did this.
... and CCP has my permission to tattle on me if I was the one who stole from teh corp.
Now that the CEO and President have come clean, let's dismiss the idea that either of us did this. The "other guy" stuff does not fly.
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Elwir
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Posted - 2003.10.09 06:14:00 -
[102]
Omg this is like a frazzing soap.... Will the gm's pls just let us know so I can stop lurking to find out the end 
Hope it all gets straightened out for you corp though ...thats a major hit.
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Exel Aurora
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Posted - 2003.10.09 06:22:00 -
[103]
Quote:
Edited by: Heff on 09/10/2003 04:44:56
Let me give CCP the benefit of the doubt. Let us assume that this was a valid theft. Let us say that the thief had access to our secure hangar. Why then are the only items that are missing the items that were just in the lab? We have many many valuable things in our secure hangar and anyone who had access to it would surely haven taken everything else. We could assume this thief was a genius and assume he only took those items that were recently in the lab so he could blame a potential lab bug. But I doubt that happenned and honestly it does not matter.
If CCP is saying that we had a legitmate thief, he would have needed access to the secure hangar. If so, he would still have access rights now. Nobody, not even a director, can take away his own access to a hangar. Try it yourself. Even if our thief was a director and could take things out of the secure hangar, he couldnÆt turn off his directorÆs rights. What IÆm saying is, there is no way a thief could cover his own tracks. If a thief had access to our secure hangar, he would still have it and we would see that. If the thief was a director and ripped us off, he would still be a director and we would see that. The fact that you cannot remove your own hangar access or directorÆs rights means we should see a smoking gun.
IÆm sorry CCP, you are wrong here. If we had a legitimate thief in the corp who ever had secure access rights or directorÆs rights, he would still have them... he couldnÆt possibly cover his tracks and take them away from himself. Try it yourself.
In the end, somehow our BPs left the corp; that much is clear. But nobody should have been able to get the BPs out of their secure hangar legitimately for the reasons I stated above without us knowing who it was -- and it wasn't Dora or I. This MUST be a loophole in the game mechanics (or a bug if you want to call it that).
Heff
Well. here's what I would do Heff. I would send in an application with my alt. Give him access to the hangar or give him personnel manager rights. Then, either have the alt steal it or use the main char, steal the blueprints, quit the corp and rejoin it. Viola, you've removed your access rights. Only the CEO gets the application and resignation evemail and if the CEO's evemail box is full, Dora may not have received it. So, you can remove your own access rights. Just have to be creative.
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Vaniq
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Posted - 2003.10.09 06:44:00 -
[104]
So THIS is where most of my old Synergy buddies wound up? I've been searching the galaxy for yas. :)
fwiw, Heff, I hope you find resolution to this without having to leave a game you obviously enjoyed. Understand though that the customer service may not be entirely lacking, as SWAMPED. I know, they can take an hour to resolve a problem and everyone would be happy... but seriously, there's 1000's of people saying the same thing because their container poofed with 27000 ores in it. :)
I feel your pain. I hope you see it through. And to me ol Synergy amigo's, hola. I am back! (finally)
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Fedaykin Naib
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Posted - 2003.10.09 06:52:00 -
[105]
As just a guy reading the forums it looks like the people from CCP said that from what there logs have told them that it was your friend that did it man. That sucks. Guess u cant know who to really trust
"Long Live the Fighters!"
"The weak come and go with time. The strong have remained" - v ger
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Jack Ryan
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Posted - 2003.10.09 07:49:00 -
[106]
The way I see it, there's three options :
1. It's a bug, and people with view access have been able to obtain the BP's
2. Dora or Heff are lying (unlikely)
3. Dora and/or Heffs login/pwd combination have been guessed.
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HC CEO
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Posted - 2003.10.09 08:32:00 -
[107]
What we know,
* CCP said that they KNOW exactly where the BPs are.
* CCP said that only two people had access to the BPs like Heff said.
* CCP said that Heff's friend took them and moved them to his or her alt char.
Thats it!
Either Dora has it (or had it in his or her alts) OR CCP is not telling the truth. Why on earth would CCP make this up? I'll be interested to see how this finished up.
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Siin Wu
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Posted - 2003.10.09 09:52:00 -
[108]
Ok...
CCP has really maked things screwedup this time and even indirectly kicked there own players away and out of eve.
if Heff and co. leaves eve.
I will do so myself if it was the case.
But from experience i have had with GM's and CCP i have found out that there is only for now 2 GM's and 1 CCP guy(s) that have the brain and understanding to find out about thinks such as bugs in eve.
I have many GM's name and many CCP names that has the same value as a plain 0.
They either cant do anything because of CCP stupidity or those others are simply to dumb to be GM's and CCP-"gamemaster" ... gamemaster lol cant even make the bugs dubblicated and fix them.
And yes i have found a way for a player with only rights to look and not take in a hanger to get the BP's out so get your heads out of your asses or i will just simpley play stupid GM in the forum and post the exploite right here though funny enough it dont always work but its working atm 50/50.
Be for once CCP smart and help Heff here to get what is a damn bug his BP's back.
I have been testing it and will give an exploite report IF Heff gets his BP's back.
If not figure it out your self then if you ppl are so clewer as you say you are.
Fear is the path to the dark side! Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. |
Ricardus
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Posted - 2003.10.09 10:08:00 -
[109]
Hurmm... stuff like this is troublesome... i mean, adults usually play games to have fun and take a break from Real Live stuff...
...but if a game makes ya start suspecting EVERYBODY (even a 10 year RL friend) everytime... then what is the point of the Game? Often RL has enough of those elements, no need to bring it to a game.
Personaly i've invested a bit of my time to aquire my BShips and since my immediate goal was met, i'm left with 2 choices... either Quit... or help the corp raise its funds and stock of ores for when Player Stations are introduced in game...
...on other hand, that involves alot of trusting in others (a feeling that EVE is clearly changing by each Episode of "Corporate Thieve", even though it does not directly affect us it still lowers everybody's trust ratings) for someone to dedicate their time helping with.
Soooo whats the point of Corporations if u can't trust anyone in fear of your hard work will endup stolen by a lowlife??
Is playing a Solo guy the only way one can feel safe from Corp Thieves??
Since its so easy to steal from Corps on this game and there is absolutelly no punishment for it (actually its a nice reward since the thief gets richer by some thousands or billions percent after a robbery), its obvious that the number of dedicated Corp Thieves will only increase since it seems the best way to get rich instead of mining non-stop.
Somehow i think CCP is really giving the WRONG message to game users...
...or this will become a "How fast can u Scam/Ripoff yer corp to fortune?!?" kind of game.
CCP really needs to change its "Corporation Robbery" policy...
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Cypheed Zeona
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Posted - 2003.10.09 11:40:00 -
[110]
"I was working as an engineer for 3 guys, handled the CEO's blueprints, making - refinning etc. In the end when my job was complete, I got screwed, the advantage I have now is simple, I have access to the prints, currently making, and I am going to undercut the ceo's prices like nobody's business, i personally think that its better than declaring war or anything (id rather you font ask for the details) that and the fact that they practically stole everything from me, so i got them back, gonna build till the damn copies run out, they planned on scamming me, which they did but the forgot to turn off my access"
I thought this was suspicious but may be an unrelated BP event.
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Ivana Killya
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Posted - 2003.10.09 12:16:00 -
[111]
Heff i hope you get this sorted soon ! as an idea get all ur corp 2 post as dora has 2 tell if its them, the ones that anit happy about doing so may have somthing 2 hide !
also heff i have somthing i would like 2 talk 2 u about,iam not on much latly coz of work so eve mail me! not going 2 post it here
p.s dora well done 4 posting ! why would dora post saying tell if it was him!! u all jumped on him 4 with no proof ! i could b wrong 
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Dora
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Posted - 2003.10.09 13:01:00 -
[112]
It is plain and simple, only I and Heff have access to the hanger where the BP's were to be ejected. All three of each of our characters are in the corp, so we can't have transferred them to an alt. See repost from dev chat:
"Here's what I found out from Ender: It was the other guy who stole them and transferred them to his alt. There were only two of them with access to the slot and the logs are very clear about it. There is an open petition/ongoing investigation and the involved parties should be hearing from Support soon about the matter. "
-support appears to be non existent at this phase...
Offices for sale: http://www.grafweb.com/playboy/pb_offices.htm
Dora
CEO Playboy Enterprises
Chnnl: PLAYBOY
E-ml: playboy_ |
EvilEric
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Posted - 2003.10.09 13:09:00 -
[113]
Heff,
Deepest sympathies for your loss. I hope CCP get the thumbs out of thier arse on this one. I for one will be monitoring this situation VERY closely so keep us informed PLEASE!!!.
Gms,
IF you read this: How come a TomB can admit this as a known bug then the GM's claim there isn't one? Who would know more? The Devs I suspect.
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Nirvy
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Posted - 2003.10.09 13:24:00 -
[114]
This is a very sad thread to read, i can only imagine what losing those BP's is like. The fact CCP treat corp theft through this bug as some kind of feature is appalling in my eyes.
Mercenary | The Azath |
Pars
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Posted - 2003.10.09 13:32:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Pars on 09/10/2003 13:35:28
This game is slowly loosing it. just look at the player peeks they are obvious. I would also like to blame their publisher since they should give CCP better guidlines.
Ive given this game the 3 months it deserved to fix the big bugs and still there are bugs and there is a huge lack of content.
To devs. and managers, either decide to invest in this game or give it up.
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Livak
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Posted - 2003.10.09 13:34:00 -
[116]
Getting an answer from CCP is like trying to extract an answer from a wiley politician.
Despite having been asked on numerous occasions they still haven't answered the mother of all questions.
Was the BP ejected into the SAME hanger that it was installed from, and stolen from that hanger?
It's irrelevant that an alt of someone in the corp has the blueprints. We need the answer to the above question. I know for a fact that research slots just a bit over a week ago kicked out prints and claimed the slot wasn't being used. Fortunatly for me, I keep my corps battleship bluprints in a personal hanger. In any case I think the player community deserves the answer to the above question.
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Dora
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Posted - 2003.10.09 13:50:00 -
[117]
It wouldn't have been so bad if the support wasn't so lousy. The first week we kept getting answers to our petitions like "Who's BP's are they" "Did you really own them" "Where did you say they were?" "Who's BP's are they" "What color is your underwear?" The second week, all of our petitions get closed without resolution with some terse response. Literally leaving us zero recourse. THIS IS INTOLERABLE!
Offices for sale: http://www.grafweb.com/playboy/pb_offices.htm
Dora
CEO Playboy Enterprises
Chnnl: PLAYBOY
E-ml: playboy_ |
Tecnopagan
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Posted - 2003.10.09 14:21:00 -
[118]
I,m rather shocked this thread has not been locked. Not that there is anything wrong with the content, but it seems when it gets too contreversial then they get locked.
Heff if you were named Larry Flynt I would guess this was a publicity stunt or a scam, but since you are not all I can do is offer up my sympathy.
I am a huge fan of corporate thievery and espionage because I think it ultimately makes the game far more interesting. Thievery due to faulty game mechanics is just flat disgusting however. I do not think the csm last night was very helpful on the issue it seems it has just gotten more and more confused. I hope they straighten it out and quickly.
I think the bottomline here is the fact that Customer Service sucks. The only other mmorpg I have played was Earth and Beyond and I am very glad to be rid of that game.. Their CS was acceptable except for their bugged quests. The responses when quest issue came up were unacceptable and now looking back I realize they just didn't have a clue about the game. I hope the GM's are required to play this game and if they do not they should get another job.
I am saddened at the fact the CS questions at the csm have been disregarded. I loved the question asked by the 'reporter' guy. Customer Service will have to come on board here soon or the game will suffer.
I am very interested to see what happens in regards to this case. Customer Service seems to be very picky in regards to who it helps, but this is such a high profile case it will set the tone for the year to come. I for one hope they learn to bend a bit more and understand that the players deserve a bit more respect.
If it was a clear cut crime of someone having access and taking the items I am glad that ccp will not divulge the thief, but the 'bug' potential is too huge not to look at it.
good luck
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.10.09 14:25:00 -
[119]
Seems straightforward to me; in this thread Vegeta says there is a bug that allows someone without the proper access to take Blueprints from the lab.
This should be verifiable as a matter of priority for the CCP support team.
If the bug exists and if this is how the "alt" thief stole the Playboy blueprints then the blueprints should be returned to Heff and Dora immediately, and the thief should be warned about using the exploit.
CCP should categorise this exploit as a potential banning offence and put a fix out as soon as possible.
Clearly this is a corp critical issue and must be addressed immediately.
Its rank stupidity to let this kind of thing drive corporations from the game.
Heff and Dora and the other decent Playboy players are good people who bring interest and content to the game.
Fair play is fair play, but sometimes you have to give the benefit of the doubt to people who are good for the game over the interests of skulking corp thiefs.
CCP acknowledge that the security controls for corps are not finished, and a not appropriate to the task at hand. (item tracking for example is non-existent).
This being the case they should tend to decide in favour of honest players because they haven't yet provided the tools we need to secure the corporations properly.
I seriously feel for Heff and Dora; if they are the only people with access and CCP are telling them one of the two longterm friends is a thief because they haven't been able to acknowledge the potential bug/exploit, then this is a very bad thing.
I say it needs investigating fully and immediately ... and if it is discovered that a bug/exploit allowed the theft to be committed by someone other than Heff/Dora and without the appropriate security rights ... then clearly CCP should apologise to the pair for making a painful situation even worse by implying that one of two was betraying their rl friend.
I want Playboy to stay in the game.
That means this issue needs resolving now.
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.10.09 14:27:00 -
[120]
Heff & Dora,
if I were you, I'd try to find someone in-game who is on a working relationship with one of the developers.
GMs obviously don't know how to address this problem, and you need to speak to TomB or someone.
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