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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Heff
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Posted - 2003.10.12 06:06:00 -
[241]
CCP is looking at it. I spoke with TomB earlier today.
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.10.12 06:06:00 -
[242]
 Quote:
itÆs an exploit not a bug
So what do you call it when you write code and it doesn't work the way it was supposed to? It's an exploit of a bug.
I would go on, but I can't muster the strength to respond to any of the other incredibly irrelevant things you managed to include in your post. I won't flame you personally, but I will flame your post - it is by far the stupidest I have ever seen on these forums, and that speaks volumes.
Now let the rest of the world return to hoping this incredible injustice that is 100% the fault of CCP and has caused the loss of probably thousands of hours of people's hardwork, dedication and perserverence in a game that has tested all of our loyalty with its many bugs, quirks and exploits is righted - as it should have been the day it happened.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Aelius
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Posted - 2003.10.12 08:43:00 -
[243]
Quote:
There is currently an exploit where corporation members with factory access can steal blueprints from their corporation hangar floors. We warn all corporations out there to take factory management access from everyone who you do not trust for valuable blueprints belonging to corporations. The people that have used this exploit to steal blueprints from corporations can be traced down and will be dealt with.
The News are out. expect your bp any time soon
Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station |
Rahvin
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Posted - 2003.10.12 11:51:00 -
[244]
Edited by: Rahvin on 12/10/2003 11:53:36
Hmm been reading this post for a few days. Goto work to return and see a posting by ccp on the news. (below statement copied and posted here from this very site.)
------------------------------------------------
There is currently an exploit where corporation members with factory access can steal blueprints from their corporation hangar floors. We warn all corporations out there to take factory management access from everyone who you do not trust for valuable blueprints belonging to corporations. The people that have used this exploit to steal blueprints from corporations can be traced down and will be dealt with.
------------------------------------------------
Wonder if this is what happened to Heff?, if so. CCP owes a big "Were sorry to not listen to you and not to have believed in you" Apology.
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GraveDigger
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Posted - 2003.10.12 12:02:00 -
[245]
hey Heff,
please update as soon as you know you are getting your BPs back..
I hope the DEVs give you something extra for your troubles.
let us know..thanks
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2003.10.12 15:14:00 -
[246]
Quote:
Just to set the record straight, this is not a bug.
We can't name any names, but the corp in question should really look within their own ranks for the culprit. We know exactly where the blueprints are at this moment, and they did not just *vanish*
Oh god no...
If i had tools to read logs ect you would think that gives me an advantage over the rest in term of knowing what has actually happened..
It seems however you would think wrong..either that or gm's dont even bother to use their tools!
No bug you say?
Thats funny cause i just read on the news that the people responsible optained the bp's using an exploit. Exploits are commenly caused by a flaw in the coding wouldn't you agree?
Now listen to my advice because i think it will make a big diferents to people if you do...
DO NOT...i repeat...DO NOT reply to a topic if you dont know whats going on or have not bothered to inform yourself throughoutly.
As a gm's or polaris member people expect you to know things we dont (because you have special tools and logs you can view) if you make a reply such as this you unneedingly besmerch the name of a respected person in the game...seeying as you indirectly acused either dora or heff of theft.
When a GM or polarismembers makes replies such as this and lateron they prove to be completely incorrect AS FREAKING USUAL, it paints a very ugly picture on CCP's customer support wich is already thought very poorly of as you may have noticed from the numerous rantposts directed at customer support. Its not all about unsticking people and locking topics unfortunitly things require a little more effort from time to time. In this case we once again see that the needed amount of effort was not done by one gm in perticulair...hence your post.
PLease...if you dont know what your saying then restrain from posting as it does not encourage trust in the gm team from the customers side...to be frank it makes the gm team look like compleet arses.
Il be honest...
When i read about 3-4 pages through this post i already KNEW that your post (gm) would be lateron this threat proven to be less then true and i knew that once again gm's would amount to nothing but sawing confusion around this whole endavour. I didnt want to say anything up to this point because i was frankly hoping i was wrong...how very naive of me indeed.
So the truth is...
This is most definitly an exploit (as stated by the devs). This was not caused by dora wich was refered to as 'the other' but you did manage to keep this topic steaming hot upto this point.
Bottom line...
The bp's were stolen due to a bug in the coding...hence...neither dora or heff were to blaim, the only guilty party here is the code. Hence a refund must be made.
Il take the 'a refund must be made' very lightly because it seem that even when you do lose soemthing due to bugs the power nor the will is there to replace the lost item. Yes i have made petitions in the past wich intangled lost ships ect. all of them were flopped off with a poor excuse.
I can only hope that this topic has caused enough unrest in the comunity sothat a refund of the lost goods will be undeniable to save what is left of the customer support team's credibility.
If you feel them i am harsh or insulting then take 2 minutes to remeber that a gm is a payed employee of CCP and has a job to do. If flopping people off with excuses and generally misguiding people with contracting posts is doing your job then by all means you should be fired 
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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Dora
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Posted - 2003.10.12 17:38:00 -
[247]
This situation is getting freaky...quick. I recommend that on one use the save password "feature" when entering the boards.
Offices for sale: http://www.grafweb.com/playboy/pb_offices.htm
Dora
CEO Playboy Enterprises
Chnnl: PLAYBOY
E-ml: playboy_ |
Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2003.10.12 18:00:00 -
[248]
OMG...
It sounds like they don't know, can't verify, or don't have logs of exactly how the BP's disappeared, and are grasping at all possible bugs/hacks (and there are many) as possible ways it could have happened.
Yesterday it was the unrent exploit, now it's the password-saved-in-cookies vulnerability.
BTW, CCP, what's up with the links to webtrendslive.com that this site sends my cookies to? I mean, I know you kinda wanna get a profile of your customers, but ALL my cookies? |
Kozak
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Posted - 2003.10.12 19:17:00 -
[249]
Maybe subscriptions don't justify keeping the game alive. Just another way to make money from EVE-Online...
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.10.12 19:19:00 -
[250]
WTF?
I thought CCP announced the BP's were lost due to an unrent exploit?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2003.10.12 20:37:00 -
[251]
Nobody knows, we're all speculating and trying to interpret the news. Even if CCP solves the matter, PBE will be prevented from discussing Cust Support issues on the forums anyway.
So we'll never know. |
HighBirdDeuce
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Posted - 2003.10.12 23:12:00 -
[252]
bury what you can't fix. keep what no one else knows
Offices for sale: http://www.grafweb.com/playboy/pb_offices.htm
HighBirdDeuce
Chnnl: PLAYBOY
E-ml: [email protected] |
Kudikai
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Posted - 2003.10.12 23:45:00 -
[253]
Quote:
Nobody knows, we're all speculating and trying to interpret the news. Even if CCP solves the matter, PBE will be prevented from discussing Cust Support issues on the forums anyway.
So we'll never know.
CCP only controls these boards. I doubt they'll be able to keep this quiet on fan sites. :)
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autoexec
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Posted - 2003.10.12 23:57:00 -
[254]
Who's CCP? A corp? A player? Do they post here?
--
autoexec.eve
"If your enemy defeats you by deceiving you, you were conquered by your own ignorance" |
Dora
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Posted - 2003.10.13 04:00:00 -
[255]
Now that is interesting, there are only a few remaining corp members that have not responded to my call to allow CCP to fully disclose their BP's for there characters and their alts.
hmmmmmmm...
Offices for sale: http://www.grafweb.com/playboy/pb_offices.htm
Dora
CEO Playboy Enterprises
Chnnl: PLAYBOY
E-ml: playboy_ |
Nightwing
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Posted - 2003.10.13 04:02:00 -
[256]
Well, if it was admitted they were taken by an "Exploit", when can we expect to get them back?
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Dora
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Posted - 2003.10.13 05:49:00 -
[257]
I don't know. But you can see how hasn't asked for CCP to reveal everything about their characters in our corp. By process of deduction he we be able to annouce the winner soon.
Offices for sale: http://www.grafweb.com/playboy/pb_offices.htm
Dora
CEO Playboy Enterprises
Chnnl: PLAYBOY
E-ml: playboy_ |
Xelios
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Posted - 2003.10.13 08:19:00 -
[258]
I suppose the 'winner' will be the one who's afk.
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Dora
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Posted - 2003.10.13 13:55:00 -
[259]
Edited by: Dora on 13/10/2003 13:57:59
Absolutely.
Offices for sale: http://www.grafweb.com/playboy/pb_offices.htm
Dora
CEO Playboy Enterprises
Chnnl: PLAYBOY
E-ml: playboy_ |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.13 16:04:00 -
[260]
Finding out who took the blueprints is 2ndary. Honestly more an internal matter for Playboy to work out amongst themselves.
The point of my interest is they get their blueprints back and get on with business
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Singular
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Posted - 2003.10.13 16:38:00 -
[261]
It only took CCP a 15 page thread to start looking into this.
Imagine if this happened to a smaller, unknown corp. They would have been **** out of luck.
Im Yo Huckleberreh |
Persephonie
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Posted - 2003.10.13 17:21:00 -
[262]
Edited by: Persephonie on 13/10/2003 17:29:30
You are all stressing me out, if it is a character in your corp who has stolen the bps, i think you should get on your knees and give CCP the biggest apology ever recorded. Without any evidence you have attacked their credibility and profesionalism, ignoring thier comments about the matter and screaming for answers (when in fact you had answers at the start)
If Heff really does work for a real company he surely has no idea how the real world works, you do not treat companies as he has done, airing your greivences infront of the whole world and casting accusations around without all the facts. You have got so many people angry against CCP for this when it looks like your own negligence.
And if not and it is a bug then help them find it, instead of threatening to quit like children who didnt get a prize at a party. They cannot see bugs instantly unless its brought to their attention, and they cannot take sides and give up a player who is stealing as this would be very biased and probably illegal for them.
Seriously you need to sort your lives out, too many times do i see serious threats over a game!!! For these guys it is a living, and they have an obviously heavy workload, for us it is fun, which will get better the more we help out.
Man i am disgusted more every day by a small percentage of the eve community. Its them that is putting my off MMORPG's not CCP...
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Heff
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Posted - 2003.10.13 17:53:00 -
[263]
I said before that TomB was personally looking into this. I am very pleased with how his personal attention is moving this along now.
Apparently there are many factors at work here and it is not as cut and dry as most people would have hoped. I do imagine it will be resolved soon. All I ask is: be extremely careful in everything you do. Change your passwords regularly, re-think your corporationÆs access rights, and be ridiculously cautious.
Heff
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autoexec
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Posted - 2003.10.13 18:06:00 -
[264]
Edited by: autoexec on 13/10/2003 18:14:22
Persephonie, next time you reply to a thread, please read it.
Thank you.
Edit: actually, please don't post at all.
Thank you, come again.
--
autoexec.eve
"If your enemy defeats you by deceiving you, you were conquered by your own ignorance" |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.13 18:49:00 -
[265]
Persephonie wrote:
Quote:
Without any evidence you have attacked their credibility and profesionalism, ignoring thier comments about the matter and screaming for answers (when in fact you had answers at the start)
If Heff really does work for a real company he surely has no idea how the real world works, you do not treat companies as he has done, airing your greivences infront of the whole world and casting accusations around without all the facts.
...
Well for one thing, the GM attacked Dora's credibility without offering any evidence other than his word. Given past evidence of Support being mistaken, misinformed and less than thorough such a statement that "The other guy did it" without supporting evidence would lack credibility for Heff.
For another thing, further pressure to continue investigating the matter has proven again that the Support Team was mistaken and less than thorough in their investigation. That evidence is easily availible simply by looking at the GM's statement in this thread and comparing it to what is taking place currently: warning of exploits in the manufacturing system and continued developer involvement in a matter that was a "Case Closed" to the Support Team. So the accusations are founded.
Third, what real world do you live in?!?. The one I live in has companies attacking each other daily, with or without evidence. There's a whole profession devoted to airing "grievances in front of the whole world and casting accusationsaround without all the facts". It's called: Journalist (retractions made availible when proven wrong).
My god, I wish I lived in the 'real world' some of you apparently lived in. I'd be even richer than I am taking yall for everything you own in a universe where everyone is blind to everything except what they want to believe they see. 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Ange Noire
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Posted - 2003.10.13 19:10:00 -
[266]
That's what they said since 3 days or so ... BPs didn't vanished, someone took them and transferate it to his alt.
that's what Pann said on CSM
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Singular
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Posted - 2003.10.13 20:17:00 -
[267]
Persephonie needs to move to a country where women arent allowed to speak, for the good of all. Stop wasting my oxygen.
Im Yo Huckleberreh |
joze
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Posted - 2003.10.14 01:14:00 -
[268]
Quote:
I said before that TomB was personally looking into this. I am very pleased with how his personal attention is moving this along now.
Any news yet   |
Rhiannan
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Posted - 2003.10.14 02:21:00 -
[269]
Edited by: Rhiannan on 14/10/2003 02:22:49
Right, it's time to reveal a few home truths and bring this to an end. Too many people are worrying over this, or starting their own arguments. CCP has received a lot of hassle because of this.
1) The BP's have been stolen
2) Playboy Enterprises will not be getting them back
3) They were stolen legitimately, not using an exploit
4) None of the thieves shall be banned (Nice try Heff, unlucky).
How do I know all this? Because today I was banned for supposed violation of the EULA, according to the GMs/Devs, for my part in the theft of these Blueprints. I was accused of accessing another person's account with suspicion of doing so by hacking either the Eve system, or by hacking the PC of the owner of said account. As you can see, by the very fact that I am posting, this decision has been completely reversed after my accolmplices came forward and we talked things through with a very helpful Game Developer.
Unfortunately, Heff has lied to the entire community, the GM's, and the Devs. There was a third person with access to the secure hanger where the blueprints were stored. For reasons of privacy, this third/other member of Playboy that had access to the secure hanger and Director rights shall be named Bob.Either through his own short-sightedness, or simply as a play to get them back, Heff failed to disclose this fact, and went about actively hiding it by revoking access of this third person before starting this public thread or any petitions with the GM's. Senior GM Ender had it bang on when he said that this was a legitimate theft, and it seems that Heff saw his play was doomed to failure, so decided to push things a little further. He used the suggestions of people trying to help out in this thread, and used them to distort the truth even more, claiming an Exploit. This put the GM's into a very arkward situation as the thread erupted in rage at 2.5 billion+ ISK worth of assets supposedly being lost to an exploit. This seemed to be working. The GMs started looking at things again, a lot harder. They were forced to re-examine all their prior decisions looking for something which didn't happen. I can only guess that this is why it took so long for them to come up with anything concrete to give to Playboy Enterprises in terms of an explanation. This only fueled peoples rage, further stressing the GMs to find a solution... quickly.
Then came the "piece de resistance" from Heff. He concocted a cunning set of lies about myself, stringed them together in an email, and sent this to a Dev currently investigating the case personally for Playboy. The contents of the email are :
Quote:
Hi <Game Developer's name>,
I know you are looking into our BP issue. I will be honest, if Bob (<Bob's real life name>) claimed that he had director access, he could be right. I have always trusted Bob and I don't think he would lie. That is why I sounded so shocked that he was involved when I spoke to you on IRC.
One thing you should know: Bob (<Bob's real life name>) was very sick and in the hospital during the end of September (see the messages below). It would have been impossible for Bob to steal anything at that time. Whether an exploit was used or not, something sounds very fishy. If you read what <Bob's real life name> said, it sounds like Rhiannan (<Rhiannan's real life name>) logged into <Bob's real life name>'s account without him knowing and may have stolen our blueprints that way. Isn't that strictly prohibited by the EULA which reads:
"You may not share your Account with anyone, or allow anyone other than you personally (or your minor child, if you have registered an Account on behalf of your minor child) to access or use your Account. Joint or shared ownership or use of an Account by more than one user is prohibited."
-and-
"You may not obtain, attempt to obtain, use or attempt to use the password of anyone else. You are responsible for remembering your Account information and Password."
Like I told you in IRC, <Rhiannan's real life name> (Rhiannan) is a confessed hacker. He has tried to hack other members of our corporation who quit the game, and he has admitted how easy it is to hack the system and steal players' passwords. I already changed all of my passwords but I am fearful of him hacking me now.
I don't know what you will find on Monday. I'm still thinking there was an exploit involved. Regardless, it seems clear that Rhiannan used Bob's account to rip us off in some way. Exploit or not, that is a clear violation of the EULA.
Thank you for your continued attention,
<Heff's real life name>
So now the CS team are faced with not only a possible exploit, but the possibility of a hacker. Wow - what a way to guarantee a result! Slap them in the face with something they really can't ignore for fear of it being publicly released with the same tenacity as this thread.
Continued... |
Rhiannan
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Posted - 2003.10.14 02:23:00 -
[270]
Continued...
Heff continued the lies by fabricating an email from Bob to Heff, in which Bob supposedly claims to know nothing about the theft, and turns around and claims I must have used Bob's account to get them. Is this guy a piece of work or what? So now he's directly lying to a Developer, fabricating emails, and whoops... in a slip of the tongue admits outright that he knew Bob had access to the secure hanger all along. Not very bright Heff, not very bright at all. Said Email contents:
Quote:
From: "JC --" <Bob's Email address>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Re: Re: BPs
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:59:35 +0000
<Heff's real life name>, I REALLY had nothing to do with this. As you probably remember, I was sick and in the hospital at the end of September. <Rhiannan's real life name> used my login and password to go in and steal the blueprints without me knowing. Why do you think I was willing to let you access my account to check my logs? He is my friend and I will never admit this to CCP, but at least I wanted you to know the truth. I didn't steal anything and I didn't even know about it until yesterday when <Rhiannan's real life name> told me what he had done.
I am sorry <Heff's real life name> for what happened.
<Bob's real life name>
Definitely a piece of art. He not only debunked everything i've been trying to tell the GM's/Dev is the truth, but he turns Bob into a liar, by claiming he's telling Heff one thing and the Dev's another. Suddenly Bob is no longer a credible source of information to the Dev looking into this, because he's "covering for his real life buddy". Another interesting fact is that Bob's email name is not "JC --" it's changed from that long ago. I guess whichever old email Heff used as a template to recreate an authentic email had that name, and Heff missed it. Oops.
So after several hours of our time, and that of the Developer looking into the situation, the admission of who actually stole the BP's, how they did it, when they did it, etc etc, we now have the situation resolved. I have been unbanned pretty much instantly, and the BPs on their way back into our rightful possession. There was no exploit, there was no hacking. There was plenty of lying on the other hand. My group lied to several members of Playboy in the hope of one of us remaining in the corp as a mole, and the CEO of Playboy lied to the entire community of Eve. You decide which was the lesser of the two evils. I certainly know how I feel. Yes I have successfully sabotaged a large corporation, but after Heff's actions my conscience is a lot less heavy on my shoulders than it may have been by now. I am only sorry that to get this resolved, Playboy had to receive "special attention" from the support team, where so many other corps have not. It seems a little unfair to everyone else that has had this happen to them. Maybe this will set the way of things to come, maybe it'll go back to normal. Maybe every corp will kick up a huge stink when they don't properly secure their assets... the God's of Eve only know. But to lay this to rest, it's at an end people. I hope this sheds some light on everything for you all... I know several of you have been eagerly anticipating the conclusion of this three week saga.
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