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Bloggers #23, More on tier 3 Battleships, and a couple sneak peeks

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Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:22:00 - [181] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 04/08/2006 14:41:12 Originally by: Wan Nathiil Originally by: Infinity Ziona I think a lot of people forgot that these ships are not meant to be 'Better' then the current BS's in the game. Why shouldn't the new ships be better than the old ones?? Then what's the point of making something new? if you think progression, then new ships SHOULD be better, that's the whole idea of making something new, it's called progression. We'd still be traveling in steam locomotives if it werent for progress, and making things better.. Actually you are confusing tech 1/2 with tier 1/2/3 here. New tech = better, new tier = different role. The devs are trying to not replace older ships so they are useless, and its working pretty good so far. For example: Vexor and Thorax. Both are really good and Thorax doesnt replace the Vexor. Problem is that only caldari got something "different" that didn't replace any of their current ships. Abbadon can shot harder than an armageddon or tank ahrder than an apoc - not at the same time, but each ships is replaced in its field. We have gallente, getting a faster, harder hitting blasterBS - thereby replacing the blasterthron. Minmatar get a new artillery boat, that doesn't have anything to offer that the tempest cant do atm. Some things it will do better some a bit worse. So only one out of 4 ships doesn't replace a current BS from their respective race. If they wanted to "patch" holes in each races lineup, they could have done so by changing a bit on a few tier1/2 and add the tier 3 F.example Gallente: Domi: hybrid bonus changed to sensor dampner Mega as long range boat Hyperion as blaster boat Granted that would be hard to sell RP-wise. But, it would be better overall.
Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:32:00 - [182] Signed -- Redo the Abaddon, Maelstrom & Hyperion, we need them to be different, & not replace our existing ships. I have no idea why i'd ever fly a geddy again if I had the Abaddon, seriously. Stupidiest thing ever to do is have us get new ships that make the only ones obselete. I'm one that things that Amarr should get a drone/ew/domi esque type of bs. I'm sure you can ask the Minnie & Gallente pilots what they really want, I dont need to come up with it for them.
Jet Collins	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:57:00 - [183] Just reading the last few pages and people have some good points. I would personaly like to add as a minamtar times have changed severly for use over the last few years. When I started playing Eve I knew minmatar as a race that had Fast crappy ships ie no tank. As for weapons we had the Apha strick with a verioty of other weapons ie auto's and missles. So when I started playing the frist thing I trained was speed. My though is if I want to survive as a minmatar pilot I'm going to have to go fast to avoid missles and gun fire, and of course train track so I could hit anything because we know projectiles tracking as pretty bad back than as well. As times have changed. Now I'm not sure of the order of things but here we go. Missles got change.. fast.. I can not longer out run missles. Ok so I have a crapy tank and can't out run the damage. They introduce the cyclone.. clearly should be shield tanker. So I focuse on more shield tanking now. They nerf damage mods.. and whatever else Tempest no longer has nice alpha strike. Phoon gets boost to missles, and we get Recon ships with missles bonuse. clearnly dividing what our weapons are. Now they introduce new ships, of which some are fast and have better alpha stick than minmatar ships. We get a ship than can tank and does ok dps??? Now this BS my not be so bad but come on whats happening to the racial roles... I agree things sould be balanced but I think things are getting to balance.. ie everything is the same. Ever race can do the same thing anouther can with the exception of a few things. I think things can be balanced and still have races that are totaly differenet in thier roles. Cal= best missles spamers and EW Gal= best drone boat sensor dampeners Amar= sorry I don't stay on top of what you are best at... I just don't like Ammar. At one point I though you where best DPS. I think you get this again with new BS. Minmatar=best webbers....and target painters.. woopy. heck I would be happier with a BS that had to use arties and got a webber bonuse like a recon but had a really bad tank. At least it would fit racial roles that they are applying now.. but that will probably change. Ohhh yes and for those of you who want it a missles spaming BS with a TP bonuse.
Jet Collins	Posted - 2006.08.04 16:02:00 - [184] My idea oh what the other races should get Amar BS=Nos boat I just think a drone boat would replace a Dom but give me some stats and reasons to change my mind Gall BS=Sensor dampening and rof boat Cal BS=hmmm well I think this on is actauly divers enough and can stay.
Anwyl Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.04 18:05:00 - [185] A small note to all you minnies out there... one thing that ALL races need is target painting. This is because fighting things with small sig radii is hard. This is where you guys have the advantage, you take less damage against larger weapons. Add this onto your damage diversity and "alpha strike" and that's not exactly the worst thing... Don't lose sight of your good stats!
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.04 18:44:00 - [186] Rokh seems fairly balanced, though judging by what I have seen, I would reduce the launcher bays - hence forcing a new gunship.
Infinity Ziona ISK LLC	Posted - 2006.08.04 23:04:00 - [187] Originally by: Cosmo Raata Signed -- Redo the Abaddon, Maelstrom & Hyperion, we need them to be different, & not replace our existing ships. I have no idea why i'd ever fly a geddy again if I had the Abaddon, seriously. Stupidiest thing ever to do is have us get new ships that make the only ones obselete. I'm one that things that Amarr should get a drone/ew/domi esque type of bs. I'm sure you can ask the Minnie & Gallente pilots what they really want, I dont need to come up with it for them. Lets not forget the fact that they are Tier 3 and if the same ratio of cost from T1 to T2 is used for T3 then they will be around 200 million to buy. So there will still be a reason to use t2 ships. Cost. 'The alliance should not be a solo contentmobile' - Albert Einstein
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2006.08.04 23:31:00 - [188] Without reading the intervening 7 pages of posts, my observations. Maelstrom: Great shield boost bonus, but will it have the CPU & Grid to fit a rack of 1400 T2 without filling it's few lows with CPU/RCUs? Will it have enough mids to be an effective autocannon platform otherwise? Hyperion: MWD bonuses make pretty much no sense whatsoever on any ship since you never get anything from the bonus without it... unlike a shield/weapon bonus that you get with pretty much every fitting unless you get really off into left field. Preferrably the ship should get a mass/inertia bonus per level, which would benefit it across any fitting, and be potentially a lot more effective. Rokh or whatever the Caldari one is: Be very careful, it's already simple enough to snipe at gates into lowsec. Adding a range bonus on rails, which already have very impressive range and DPS, would put one of these things on every High->low sec gate in empire. Assault Missiles Can we say, uh... WTF? Why? You've got T2 rage missiles for that role. This would just be taking the same missile, removing the rather idiotic nerfs (all T2 ammo is nerfed beyond usability, IMO. Waste of training effort), and making Rage missiles (already so seldom used that a Rage BPO is about as valuable as, say, a T2 Inertial Stabalizer BPO) utterly useless. Why don't you fix defender missiles and add T2 variants? Defender missiles made useful?
Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2006.08.05 00:26:00 - [189] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Cosmo Raata Signed -- Redo the Abaddon, Maelstrom & Hyperion, we need them to be different, & not replace our existing ships. I have no idea why i'd ever fly a geddy again if I had the Abaddon, seriously. Stupidiest thing ever to do is have us get new ships that make the only ones obselete. I'm one that things that Amarr should get a drone/ew/domi esque type of bs. I'm sure you can ask the Minnie & Gallente pilots what they really want, I dont need to come up with it for them. Lets not forget the fact that they are Tier 3 and if the same ratio of cost from T1 to T2 is used for T3 then they will be around 200 million to buy. So there will still be a reason to use t2 ships. Cost. I Disagree, I dont care how much the ship is, its the cost of uninsurable items/ships that make it something one doesn't use. These tier 3 wont use much more in mods than the others. So in response, If the Abaddon stays as it is, & I can figure out how to deal with the cap problem, Dont expect me to ever use ther other 2 ships (what were they called again?) again.
RedooM Meed Caldari Red Moon Colonisation Section	Posted - 2006.08.05 00:42:00 - [190] Ahhhh who give a damm anyway rofl. I want my flying goofball with pink ears tech 2 retrofitted. Plz add some bonus to the ears and maybe extra fitting slots for goofing around.
Anwyl Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.05 02:23:00 - [191] Edited by: Anwyl on 05/08/2006 02:23:42 Originally by: Cosmo Raata Originally by: Infinity Ziona Lets not forget the fact that they are Tier 3 and if the same ratio of cost from T1 to T2 is used for T3 then they will be around 200 million to buy. So there will still be a reason to use t2 ships. Cost. I Disagree, I dont care how much the ship is, its the cost of uninsurable items/ships that make it something one doesn't use. These tier 3 wont use much more in mods than the others. So in response, If the Abaddon stays as it is, & I can figure out how to deal with the cap problem, Dont expect me to ever use ther other 2 ships (what were they called again?) again. Tier 3 isn't Tech 3, the tier 4 cruiser is the thorax for Gallente. At least, that's my interpretation of what they said... The new ship should be on the market, and will not need research, same with the BC. That's why they're not Tech 2 quality.
arbitrary Bad luck Clover Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.05 07:40:00 - [192] Originally by: Anwyl Tier 3 isn't Tech 3,... This needs to be repeated over and over Threads like this makes me cogitate on why somone would fantasize that tier is tech, one could assume they just see it as the T before the 2, hearing tier they just asume the two are a pair, or rather tier is par tech in the T. But the released stats or bonuses for tier ships would be comical on a tech 2, not to mention tech 3; assuming tech 3 would take specialisation further, not just backtrack to tech 1. So why do people still equivalent tech with tier? my conclusion is that by large EVE is like any other MMO in that most players are too dumb in general and at large, lets just hope information is the cure. ___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile.
Brute Helmet Minmatar J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2006.08.05 08:34:00 - [193] The assault missiles sound to me like a very useful weapon system for minmatar pilots. They will complement our autocannon nicely, giving us increased punch at medium to short ranges. Every missile thats fired doesnt have to come from one of those angular excuses for ships that the caldari fly. _____________________________ Support the MGRL - uncover your six
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.05 08:44:00 - [194] Originally by: Brute Helmet The assault missiles sound to me like a very useful weapon system for minmatar pilots. They will complement our autocannon nicely, giving us increased punch at medium to short ranges. Every missile thats fired doesnt have to come from one of those angular excuses for ships that the caldari fly. Too bad that none of the minmatar cruisers have missile bonuses. :) I think its only the typhoon in the entire fleet that has bonuses, and thats to cruise/torps. But still, I guess it can be useful, but the higher powergrid requirements can possibly make it hard to fit. The best rupture setups today already require top skills to fit a 1600 mm plate, guns and nos/launchers. So.. we'll see. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Wan Nathiil	Posted - 2006.08.05 10:01:00 - [195] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 04/08/2006 14:28:53 Originally by: Wan Nathiil We'd still be traveling in steam locomotives if it werent for progress, and making things better.. so..how many steam locomotives are still in use compared to modern trains? Well the steam locomotive is a "leap" back, but the point is that new stuff has to be just a "little" better to be interresting. I wont pretend i have all the answers, but i think there is (in general) more Tempest pilots than Phoon, more Apoc than Armas etc... because (and i know people will LOVE to argue about this)TIER2 are in general just a tiny bit better than TIER1. Tier1 still has theyr use though, and will (hopefully) be around for awhile longer, because there are things they are better at still
Donmadefy	Posted - 2006.08.05 11:39:00 - [196] I wonder why they don't run an in game event ... Mentas Blaque could request the pod pilots to bring supplies to a number of different research stations, each one specialising in a bonus (ie RoF, Damage, Tracking, Speed, Cap etc). Whichever two stations get the most resources dictates what the bonuses will be. Naturally all the other races may follow suit, some agent missions can be added "Disrupt the supply line" where you go after convoys moving supplies around.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2006.08.05 12:08:00 - [197] Originally by: Wan Nathiil Well the steam locomotive is a "leap" back, but the point is that new stuff has to be just a "little" better to be interresting. I wont pretend i have all the answers, but i think there is (in general) more Tempest pilots than Phoon, more Apoc than Armas etc... because (and i know people will LOVE to argue about this)TIER2 are in general just a tiny bit better than TIER1. Tier1 still has theyr use though, and will (hopefully) be around for awhile longer, because there are things they are better at still Actually for apocs and armas it's the other way around. Also I would say the dominix is more common than the mega. Only morons and noobs are using ships based on their tier. People are usually using ships based on what they can do. An apoc is not able to deal the dps of a geddon, so usually a geddon is used if you want to do that. Similary, a geddon cannot tank as well, so if you want to do that you'll use an apoc. A typhoon is a better closerange dps boat, the tempest is a better sniper. While Tempests are also used regulary as AC boats this is mainly because the typhoon is more skillintensive and was gimped for a long time until recently. Also, tempests can mount a bit of ECM, which gives them an extra edge. Once that is nerfed you won't see them as often as shortrange boats. For all races tier 2 is not not something better, but something different. This is especialyl noticeable with the cladari and gallente BSs. If the tier 3 ships are simply bigger, better instead "something else" once the market has clamed down after the initial rush their tier1&2 ships they replace will go the way of the kodo.
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:51:00 - [198] Hyperion looks even more awful now with the mass reduction bonus. Wtf!? I will use the minmatar BS for my mission running alt, and use Rokh for PvP. I cant fly amarr BS, so I am unsure about their tier 3 BS, but atleast it looks interesting.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.05 15:17:00 - [199] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Hyperion looks even more awful now with the mass reduction bonus. Wtf!? I will use the minmatar BS for my mission running alt, and use Rokh for PvP. I cant fly amarr BS, so I am unsure about their tier 3 BS, but atleast it looks interesting. How is getting in range fast a bad thing? Besides, i doubt the Maelstrom will be a better mission runner than the Raven. Ive tried the Cyclone with artillery and its simply not worth it compared to the ferox. Maelstrom will be the same. And with that slow base speed, it will be a pain to move around with even with MWD... Raven doesnt need to move. Ever. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Brute Helmet Minmatar J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2006.08.05 15:41:00 - [200] Edited by: Brute Helmet on 05/08/2006 15:50:01 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 05/08/2006 08:44:49 Originally by: Brute Helmet The assault missiles sound to me like a very useful weapon system for minmatar pilots. They will complement our autocannon nicely, giving us increased punch at medium to short ranges. Every missile thats fired doesnt have to come from one of those angular excuses for ships that the caldari fly. Too bad that none of the minmatar cruisers have missile bonuses. :) I think its only the typhoon in the entire fleet that has bonuses, and thats to cruise/torps. But still, I guess it can be useful, but the higher powergrid requirements can possibly make it hard to fit. The best rupture setups today already require top skills to fit a 1600 mm plate, tech 2 guns and nos/launchers. So.. we'll see. :) Your forget Bellicose and Huginn (Just because Sarmaul doesnt like target painting bonuses doesnt mean we all hate them) _____________________________ Support the MGRL - uncover your six
Ulric Denrai Amarr The B-Team	Posted - 2006.08.05 18:23:00 - [201] Originally by: kieron Tux's last blog about the stats of tier 3 Battleships caused a lot of discussion. Remember, read then post, not post then read. Minmater now have a shield tanker bs and a armor tanker bs . Isn`t it better for the minmater to bring two tier 3 bs,one armor tanker and a shield tanker ? Since there are not much minmaters and amarr in eve ,it wil give those races a boost .
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.05 19:05:00 - [202] Originally by: Brute Helmet Edited by: Brute Helmet on 05/08/2006 15:50:01 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 05/08/2006 08:44:49 Originally by: Brute Helmet The assault missiles sound to me like a very useful weapon system for minmatar pilots. They will complement our autocannon nicely, giving us increased punch at medium to short ranges. Every missile thats fired doesnt have to come from one of those angular excuses for ships that the caldari fly. Too bad that none of the minmatar cruisers have missile bonuses. :) I think its only the typhoon in the entire fleet that has bonuses, and thats to cruise/torps. But still, I guess it can be useful, but the higher powergrid requirements can possibly make it hard to fit. The best rupture setups today already require top skills to fit a 1600 mm plate, tech 2 guns and nos/launchers. So.. we'll see. :) Your forget Bellicose and Huginn (Just because Sarmaul doesnt like target painting bonuses doesnt mean we all hate them) Do not forget the Breacher and the Hound while you're at it. On the other hand, our ships have been forgotten regularly in the adjustments for drones and missile changes in the past, so why do you think it will be different now? Scythe: Fit something and a pair of standard or rocket launchers. Bellicose: Former missile and drone cruiser. Nerfed badly twice and got nothing in exchange. Breacher: Just try for yourself. Sooo much lock range for a slow untanked target. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Dak Hakin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.08.05 22:48:00 - [203] I read "sneak peek" and I thought "oh hey, a couple of new battleship pics". Hmmph. _______________________________________________ I am the devil, and I'm here to do the devils work.
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S THE HAINE FOUNDATION	Posted - 2006.08.06 12:01:00 - [204] I do not care about stats - I want to see how they LOOK!!! Please show me some goodies (and I do not mean those very old concept scetches)
Minthos 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.07 00:01:00 - [205] Originally by: Cosmo Raata Originally by: Yendri Originally by: Stephar Please reexamine the Abaddon. You said in your first blog that it could be used for either tanking or ganking, but I still don't understand how it can sustain any sort of tank and shoot lasers at the same time. This is a prime example of people unable to understand the word "or". Please select from one of the Following: [ ] An Abbadon with great tanking ability [ ] An Abbadon with great ganking ability you may tick one box at any time. not both. Congratualtions. you have now discovered the meaning of the word "or". Next? He said ANY SORT OF LASERS, you see, if you knew anything about amarr ships, you'd know that short of fitting small or medium guns, with the amount of cap any LARGE gun uses w/o the cap bonus, you're completely & utterly screwed! So here is your options bud: [ ] Fit 8 Tach 2's, 2 sensor booster 2's, 2 tracking computer 2's, 3 heat sink 2's, 1 co-processor 2, 1 rcu2, 1 adaptive nano 2 & a warp core stab. Yay, shoot until something comes near & warp! Make sure you're aligned or your screwed. [ ] Put the newly nerfed Nos in highs, 2 webs, 1 cap booster & 1 scram, 2 large reps, 3 adaptive nanos, 2 completly pointless lows (fit whatever you want, as you'd already have the best tank in game). This gives you a ship that will do less than the apoc, tanks & watches its friends kill you. You fit guns & you'll cap out, PERIOD! Unless of course you put 2 cap injectors on & hope that TUX gives the ship 700m3 cargo, which aint happening. In conclusion, do you choose the awesome sniping damage dealer that must warp if a frig comes near, or the tanking beast that has to fit projectiles to do anything without capping? You have now entered the world of 1600mm. Enjoy your resistance bonus. What was that? You don't want 8 lows? Oh, so I suppose damage mods would be out of the question then. Completely unrelated, my rupture will be looking forward to the new assault launchers with anticipation.
datta Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.07 16:25:00 - [206] no offense but why give the t3 gal bs mwd bonus, most of us never use it.. why not a rep or a armour bonus or a L gun tracking bonus. most of us use coverts to warp to in range anyways and agent runner's cant use a mwd in dead space. space.. the finla frontier.. yea RIGHT!
Opai McTwist Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.08.07 17:00:00 - [207] Didn't Tux mention the MWD bonus was being shifted to a mass reduction bonus for now? A couple of thoughts on the different BSs: Amarr: Sounds for all intents and purposes like a larger Punisher/Maller. I'm very ok with this. Any chance we'll get a BS that more closely follows the Executioner or Anathema design language? Just thought I'd ask :) Caldari: Does it really need the shield resist bonus? If it is going to be used as a fleet sniper why not give it a boost to electronics upgrade using items, say a 5% CPU reduction on any electronics based module? Just trying to think of something different than the standard bonuses, although I expect this idea will get poo-pood by the Caldari out there. As a side note, I'd love it if they got a 4/4 split BS that was setup to be a midrange fighter. Gallente: Ugh. Ugh. Ugh... wait... heh. The more i think about it, the more I really don't mind the mass reduction. To me it means a boost in acceleration (less mass to accelerate by the MWD means quicker it gets up to speed), and i hope it also means better turning radius so it can orbit once it gets into range. Now all it needs is a decent track... oh wait. Tux mentioned crappy tracking and crappy drone bay... looks like webbies will come standard on this ship eh? I think tracking and no damage bonus might be warranted in this instance... it would certainly differentiate it from the Mega. Just a thought :) And finally... Minmatar: I really like the idea behind the shilding Arty boat... but, what if the shield boost bonus was a bonus to shield recharge rate instead? Build on the passive tank idea? That should free up mids, no compelling need to fit the shield boost, just throw on the extenders and resists? Just a thought... discuss?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.07 19:03:00 - [208] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/08/2006 19:05:13 Originally by: Opai McTwist And finally... Minmatar: I really like the idea behind the shilding Arty boat... but, what if the shield boost bonus was a bonus to shield recharge rate instead? Build on the passive tank idea? That should free up mids, no compelling need to fit the shield boost, just throw on the extenders and resists? Just a thought... discuss? Not sure what it would be good for. Artillery has bad dps and you need to bother with range to target constantly. I tried doing some lvl 3 missions in a cyclone and its not even close to how easy the same mission is in a ferox. So I dont think it will be even a good mission runner. Maybe if you can put a load of autocannons on it, but the ammo consumtion will force you to go back to base constantly and buy more ammo. I dont think anything will beat the Raven for missions. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.08 07:55:00 - [209] Guess some people actually "skip" the part where Tux admits the bonus is inferior to a resistance bonus..... Giving it a shield boosting bonus makes it more narrow in usage than a resistance bonus, or a HP amount bonus. Furthermore as have been said over and over in this thread allready, plus others I might add, is that an active shield tank on a turret ship with 6 midslots is appaling. Ravenpilots allready complain about the slot they have to give up to fit a scrambler, on a turret ship you need scrabmle, web, and maybe even a tracking comp. One thing I do hope is that CCP will avoid giving the caldari more than other races - again. if the Rohk gets 7 mids I would love to hear the arguments why the maelstorm doesn't get it. If any Caldari whiner goes "thats caldaris speciality" well, look at the interceptors - minmatar got one with 4 mids there. and after the new BS's we wont have speed as our "defining race thingie".
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.08 09:53:00 - [210] Tux didn't state the Maelstrom's bonus might or even will be changed with a single syllable, just that it got removed from Caldari ships for suckiness. Without free HiSlots for Nos, its tank wont be sustainable because of the massive ammo consumption fighting over the small cargo hold against the cap boosters. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.

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