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Bloggers #23, More on tier 3 Battleships, and a couple sneak peeks

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kieron	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:16:00 - [1] Tux's last blog about the stats of tier 3 Battleships caused a lot of discussion, so he spends part of his new Blog going into some of the design details about the new content. He also gives an update on the progress of tier 2 Battlecruisers, Assault Missiles and Inertial Stabilizers. So, there you have it. You can read Tuxford's new blog here. Remember, read then post, not post then read. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online


Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:20:00 - [2] Originally by: kieron Remember, read then post, not post then read. First is considered spam. Please discuss the blog now. Email Us \| Forum Rules \| Website

Thisis Mymain	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:21:00 - [3] Glad about the Hyperion's MWD bonus change that didn't seem to fit with the other bonuses. Look forward to having a go in or at em
Kirex Gallente Vale Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:21:00 - [4] Edited by: Kirex on 02/08/2006 16:24:26 aw wtf :( why did you remove my post? D: I was the first poster :( I posted even before this was made a sticky :( well I read It, didnt realy answer my questions though ;/
Manus Ghostface Caldari Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:22:00 - [5] From the blog then it sounds like Maelstrom and Hyperion are still being tweaked as far as their bonus, and the BC are still iffy on theirs as well? That city is well fortified which has a wall of men instead of brick. - Lycurgus
BoinKlasik Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:23:00 - [6] so now we can have a bs turning like a frigate :D doh, I broke my edited sig :/ cries this signature was lacking pink, I'll provide it for you. There. Looks better doesn't it? -Eris Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler The damsel may not be distressed any more, but how many times does the informant have to be silenced before he gets the message? - Cortes
Araston vonBek Caldari Von Bek Incorporated	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:25:00 - [7] They stole your first post too? Curse you forum mods!!! And I was so excited too, kinda like OMG I'm up there with the big boys now, I've made it, then to have it stolen away as if it was nothing... /me adds BC-5 to his 'to train' list and awaits further stats on those. Glad to see Inertial Stabs getting some attention, I have a big pile somewhere that need melting, so I'm gonna hold onto them for a while now. I'm liking the sound of Assault missiles too. Here's eagerly awaiting Kali 1.
Kael D'mende Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:26:00 - [8] Nice one :O) like the feel that we aint ignored, would hate to tune up the whining hehe anyway, looking forward to the "other stuff" ;o) Regards. /Kael
Amano vonBek Minmatar Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:27:00 - [9] Wrong account AND wrong character, way to go Andy...
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:27:00 - [10] This blog basicly confirms Maelstrom will not have a use in this game. There is nothing it can do that other ships cant do better. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

Kael D'mende Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Jim McGregor This blog basicly confirms Maelstrom will not have a use in this game. There is nothing it can do that other ships cant do better. Yup, but Tux is clearly aware of this, so have fate ;o) Regards. /Kael
Sovy Kurosei Amarr Therianthropic Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:31:00 - [12] So we are stuck with the Abaddon as it is and won't be getting a Big Arbitrator droneboat instead? ___________________
TotalHottie	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:33:00 - [13] GReat stuff - i love it (regular)
Ryysa Total Failure	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:33:00 - [14] the problem with maelstrom would be though, that with 7 mids, it would have better shieldtank than caldari ships, which seems somehow "wrong"... if you know what i mean... It's not like raven can tackle either... I'd actually be fairly happy if it had 6 slots, you can have a 4 slot tank and use webdrones or something... All about target jamming
Stephar Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:36:00 - [15] Please reexamine the Abaddon. You said in your first blog that it could be used for either tanking or ganking, but I still don't understand how it can sustain any sort of tank and shoot lasers at the same time. Are you expecting people to use projectiles for the tanking role? From all I can gather, it looks like a two-minute wonder... a ship that will be overpowered for those two minutes, and seriously gimped when out of cap charges. Basically, a ship that is impossible to balance.
Francesca Dell'Agio eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:39:00 - [16] Edited by: Francesca Dell''Agio on 02/08/2006 16:45:35 Maelstrom .. well, long range artillery boat - ok we get that. But even then 4 med slots is not enough by far for a proper shield tank. Plus there's also the bit on speed (AB/MWD), and especially in fleet engagements the always necessary bit of EW (RDS ftw). so .. 4 med slots for the tank??? That makes me wonder how many it will end up as. WTB: In Game Map Setting: Players logged off in system last 24 hours. Guess why ^^
Ather Ialeas Viziam	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Sovy Kurosei So we are stuck with the Abaddon as it is and won't be getting a Big Arbitrator droneboat instead? Go Gallente. Amarrs are lasers (and imo smartbombs too). ...then again, laser-fitted Amarr ship is in many cases awfully scary for the one who flies the ship, not the target. ________________________________________________ Originally by: Nidhoggur How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
Wizzkidy Stupid People Always Need Killing E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:49:00 - [18] Im annoyed, all I keep hearing about is "missles" and how CCP is going to add this and that for missile users and how these other race ship are going to be different and how this and that are not "balanced" I really want to hear something about laser weapons and ammar ships, I think by now it's obvious that ammar are not balanced at all with other races. and low and behold not even a mention about the new ammar bs? Why oh why do ammar get the short end of the stick every single time? I mean what ever happend to the reduction in grid and CPU for Tachyons? I saw one mention about it and then never again. Please give ammar some love for once, they already have a hard enough time already when it comes to tanking and ganking unlike other races
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:50:00 - [19] Quote: Maelstrom med slots, the argument I've seen so far is that it needs at least 3 slots for speed mod, webbie and a scrambler, anything less than 4 slots is too little to tank with. I recognize that logic but we intend the Maelstrom to be a shield tanking artillery boat, relying on other ships to tackle for you. Then again shield boost bonus isn't really terribly effective in fleets where you have potentially a lot of ships firing at you and damage output exceeds your tank's absorption by a wide margin. That's basically the reasoning for changing the Moa's shield boost bonus to resistance bonus originally. A shield tank with 4 slots is crap. It might work as an armor tank but not as shield tank. Ship lovers click here
Copenhagen Amarr JuBa Corp	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Ryysa the problem with maelstrom would be though, that with 7 mids, it would have better shieldtank than caldari ships, which seems somehow "wrong"... if you know what i mean... It's not like raven can tackle either... I'd actually be fairly happy if it had 6 slots, you can have a 4 slot tank and use webdrones or something... I would like to know wtf is "Wrong" about the Minmatar actually getting a BS that does something better than another race?? There isnt one thing that a Minny can do better than another BS atm other than the 1400 alpha strike. Wow, we get to fire one volley then we are mediocre for the rest of the battle. The other BS's have better DPS, can fire just as far, and can tank more than us. We are used to being the underdog crapped on race, but for the love of God throw us a bone everyonce in a while!!

MrRael	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:51:00 - [21] Originally by: Ather Ialeas ...then again, laser-fitted Amarr ship is in many cases awfully scary for the one who flies the ship, not the target. true that. so can i take it that the Abaddon can atleast fit 6-8 TACHYON's now? more Powergrid and cpu ftw p.s. so should we expect the slot layout of the Abaddon to be the same as the geddon?
Paddlefoot Aeon Gallente Neogen Industries	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:51:00 - [22] Regarding the hyperion: Quote: We've played around with other bonuses; the bonus that is on it right now is mass addition reduction bonus, if that makes sense to anyone. That bonus effectively makes you faster with ab/mwd with a reduced agility penalty when you fit one. So you only get the agility bonus if you have an active MWD or AB, but the BS will still have low agility when not using/fitting a MWD/AB??? I see the Hyperion as a fast assault battleship: up close and lethal, able to approach fast, align fast, and be relatively more nimble than the other BS, whether using MWD/AB or not.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:56:00 - [23] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 02/08/2006 16:56:48 Quote: Currently they give about 25% more damage over time and have a range of about 15km with no ship range bonuses Those numbers look a tad wrong to me tbh. 25% more damage, that sounds about right for a short range weapon system (comparing to the gunnery equivalents). However, the 15km range would be about equal to the base range of a medium range turret would it not ? We'll see how that pans out, but I thought you had more or less already concluded that the current base torpedo range is essentially way too high. This assault missile range seems derived from that statistic, making it a mistake if you consider torp range too high, no ? Old blog
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:59:00 - [24] While I'm pleased at the info regarding assault missiles and am mildly interested at the possibility of high-damage low-tank tier 2 battlecruisers to kill smaller ships (tracking bonus?), I must say that the maelstrom and hyperion concern me. I'm still getting the "my AC tempest will be useless thanks to the introduction of the hyperion and also the ECM nerf" vibe off this. Tux, if you get the chance to address our concerns in that regard it would be much appreciated. As of now it looks like things are on track to make any short-ranged Minmatar battleship setup obsolescent. The AC tempest is forced to rely on its multispectral jammer to even out fights due to low DPS and difficulty fitting a good tank and damage mods, and ECM is getting nerfed. Moreover, once the hyperion makes it into the game maintaining range will be an excersize in futility; it's already pretty much impossible vs. the mega thanks to Null L unless you want to get out of scramble range and watch your target warp off. Oh, and there's the velocity penalty on Hail to consider, too, whereas Void does not reduce a blaster boat's velocity at all. I don't know how coherent that sounded, seeing as how I haven't had anything to eat yet today and my head is spinning, but it would be much appreciated if you could take some time out to address our concerns regarding the viability of the AC tempest. Thanks. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 16:59:00 - [25] Edited by: Sarmaul on 02/08/2006 16:59:35 So, what's the point of the tempest and megathron? TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
HappyKitten Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Sarmaul So, what's the point of the tempest and megathron? They both look cool.
Altamekz The Caravan Guards Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:00:00 - [27] Do what yo have to do but dont remove the bonus on cap usage from laser, all amarr ships has it, it's part of the role playing...Add ONE of these bonus instead ( like for elite industrial ) reduction armor repair time or increase the armor repaired for cycle
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Altamekz Do what yo have to do but dont remove the bonus on cap usage from laser, all amarr ships has it, it's part of the role playing...Add ONE of these bonus instead ( like for elite industrial ) reduction armor repair time or increase the armor repaired for cycle Game balance for PvP purposes > roleplaying. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Altamekz The Caravan Guards Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: Altamekz Do what yo have to do but dont remove the bonus on cap usage from laser, all amarr ships has it, it's part of the role playing...Add ONE of these bonus instead ( like for elite industrial ) reduction armor repair time or increase the armor repaired for cycle Game balance for PvP purposes > roleplaying. The game is not all about PvP
BOB ALT	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Stephar Please reexamine the Abaddon. You said in your first blog that it could be used for either tanking or ganking, but I still don't understand how it can sustain any sort of tank and shoot lasers at the same time. Are you expecting people to use projectiles for the tanking role? From all I can gather, it looks like a two-minute wonder... a ship that will be overpowered for those two minutes, and seriously gimped when out of cap charges. Basically, a ship that is impossible to balance. /SIGNED by not seeing anything about the abadon I can only conclude that the ship is not being looked at. If your going to give the amarr a ship that has a ROF bonus then its going to need a capacitor bonus as well, lasers use cap and lots of it, or have you forgotten this? Either change that ROF bonus to a damage bonus or change the way lasers work all together because as it is the Abadon is going to be a broken ship when its released. Why do the Amarr always always ALWAYS seem to get the short end of the stick on these things.

HappyKitten Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:08:00 - [31] Originally by: Altamekz Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: Altamekz Do what yo have to do but dont remove the bonus on cap usage from laser, all amarr ships has it, it's part of the role playing...Add ONE of these bonus instead ( like for elite industrial ) reduction armor repair time or increase the armor repaired for cycle Game balance for PvP purposes > roleplaying. The game is not all about PvP Much more than it is about roleplaying
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:12:00 - [32] This game is about Caldari vs Gallente. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Kyguard LFC 3rd Front Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:18:00 - [33] So Tux why are you fixing the ships that were fine or even great and not the other ones such as the Abbadon.. === God is on the side with the best arti
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:24:00 - [34] unfortunately tux seems to have forgotten to spend some time to rectify the mistakes/omissions he made in regards to the abaddon in his last devblog. so i'm just gonna try and point out 3 of the more irritating points: 1. lets start with the major contradiction first: "The name Tier 3 is mostly just a name that we use to reference these four new battleships. It doesn't mean that they are like tier 2 battleships only better. In fact tier 1 and tier 2 battleships should do something better than the tier 3." "It has the option of more damage than an Armageddon or a better tank than an Apocalypse." so...seeing as what the geddon does best is dealing damage and what the apoc does best is tanking damage... could we have any more information regarding what these ships will be able to do better than an abaddon? i'm assuming it will be one of the less noticeable features..like the apocs ability to perform as an electronic warfare platform maybe. 2. what disturbs me a bit more is that i seem to be unable to grasp this "new role" the abaddon is suposed to fill. and i'm pretty sure that the point of adding new tier 3 battleships was not to just get a better version of the existing ones. so i was actually hoping tux would go ahead and explain the new role he sees for this ship. 3. lastly a little mistake which lead to some confusion in regards to the abaddons slot layout: "Slot wise its gonna have 8 turret hardpoints, 8 high slots and 8 low slots. Whether it has one more slot than the Apocalypse isn't really decided but its quite clear that if it does then it will be a med slot." if it gets 8 lowslots that would already be one more than the apoc has. so i'm assuming he just meant the geddon there. an easy mistake to make considering how similar the amarrian battleships are. anyway i would be very happy if tux (or some maybe other dev) could provide the information missing there.
babylonstew Caldari Caldari Scouting and Intel Group	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:24:00 - [35] Originally by: Jim McGregor This game is about Caldari vs Gallente. Forum advice Linkage
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:25:00 - [36] Tuxford, YOU¦RE FIRED!!!!1111 Ship lovers click here
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:25:00 - [37] Can we please have a ballpark estimate on how much cap an abbadon will have base? Pretty please?
Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:27:00 - [38] Well if the Maelstrom is supposed to be a slow fleet battleship (since tux says its not supposed to do anything solo) the shield amount bonus is utterly useless, and its allready outranged by several ships. We know it wont get 7 mid from his comments (4 tank + scramble, web, propulsion). So what is it purpose? Its outranged, slow and with a less than usefull bonus for fleet ops - yet wont get the slots it need to solo. Might be time to consider alternative bonusses. Why not make it the artillery boat worth something, maybe give it the +10% optimal that caldari gets (fat chance I know). Question is, how to give it a 2nd bonus that usefull for fleet ops (since thats its obvious purpose it seems). Maybe falloff (its not just an autocannon bonus, arties do have a good long falloff as well, or a good tracking bonus perhaps. Anyways, enough ramblings. I do seriously hope that CCP can actually make a minmatar ship that actually can be used for something... atm it seems outclassed in almost everything.
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:29:00 - [39] What...about...the abaddon Make it a drone boat
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Mr Bright Well if the Maelstrom is supposed to be a slow fleet battleship (since tux says its not supposed to do anything solo) the shield amount bonus is utterly useless, and its allready outranged by several ships. We know it wont get 7 mid from his comments (4 tank + scramble, web, propulsion). So what is it purpose? Its outranged, slow and with a less than usefull bonus for fleet ops - yet wont get the slots it need to solo. Might be time to consider alternative bonusses. Why not make it the artillery boat worth something, maybe give it the +10% optimal that caldari gets (fat chance I know). Question is, how to give it a 2nd bonus that usefull for fleet ops (since thats its obvious purpose it seems). Maybe falloff (its not just an autocannon bonus, arties do have a good long falloff as well, or a good tracking bonus perhaps. Anyways, enough ramblings. I do seriously hope that CCP can actually make a minmatar ship that actually can be used for something... atm it seems outclassed in almost everything. Resistance bonus? The shield resist/caldari thing is pretty new, and as stated in the blog, the Moa/Eagle was changed from the same boost bonus to resistance bonus. The latter bonus is better in almost all circumstances anyways... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson

DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:30:00 - [41] Meh, the hyperion and maelstrom stuff doesn't say much. Tuxford already said that mwd/mass bonus is likely to get changed, and I sure hope it does. I hope someone realizes that making a ship fast doesn't make it good for close range. I also think the tier 2 battlecruisers are somewhat backwards. For example, in all other class of ship.. the drone/missile ones have been one tier below the blaster/rail ones. Same with the artillery/gank of minmatar and amarr. I don't know what is the point of tier 1 bc if their only advantage is tanking, because tanking itself hasn't proven to be that great overall, much less on BC which take it right up the ****chute. Another damage ship is boring. T2 BC are nothing but slow super-hacs, and do quite well at killing cruisers. BS with their heavy nos and precision also make short work of them. Why all the h8 for cruisers :( Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Deitre Cibrus Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:36:00 - [42] Originally by: Sarmaul Edited by: Sarmaul on 02/08/2006 16:59:35 So, what's the point of the tempest and megathron? Mega: Sniping and possibly a better tank with blasters Temp: Autocannons, since the new minnie BS is supposed to be slow. ----------- Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread. What is this sig missing?
Copenhagen Amarr JuBa Corp	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:38:00 - [43] Originally by: Jim McGregor This game is about Caldari vs Gallente. qft
Ikvar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:44:00 - [44] Originally by: Tux's Blog Battleships are pretty balanced right now Ever seen a Tempest, Tuxford?
D'Nar Caldari The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:45:00 - [45] Interesting. I don't think I'll be buying the first Rokh that comes off the assembly line, because I noticed from BC and on, caldari ships are (or were, I guess) very heavily focused towards missile use, and trained more missile skills for that reason. However, I think this is a good decision for those who prefer hybrids to missiles (they exist, I believe there are a few in my corp) to have a decent BS they can play with. On that note, I wonder if the caldari Tier 2 BC is going to also focus on hybrids, to balance the missile-focus of the Ferox... Never mind, I just checked the slot configuration on it, and you can fit as many hybrids as launchers. Oh, well, at least we get a BS-sized gunboat now. _____ Please Hold For Sig Note that these comments do not represent my opinion, or that of my corporation, alliance, government, or ISP.
Doc Brown Gallente Tyrell Corp Curse Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:49:00 - [46] My thoughts on the hype: Any bonus that requires a module isn't a real bonus. _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Madcat Adams Mission Runners Anonymous Incorporated	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:52:00 - [47] Make the Abaddon a drone boat. That is all.
Noriath	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:55:00 - [48] I really have no problem with the new battleships, if the old ones get changed up a bit... Especially Amarr is getting screwed over with this change, because they have another gunship that only fills a small niche. at least one of the other two ships needs a change, maybe the Armageddon could be a drone ship with more grid but much fewer medslots then a Domi... Gallente now have two ships that are built for blasters (Let's face it, tracking speed is not a range bonus!!) and are still missing their EW option. I'd say change the Megathrons tracking bonus to something that's useful at range, and give the dominix the damper bonus, plus maybe a different slot layout. The Tempest needs to be all missiles now IMO, because the Typhoon is simply better at going short range using autocanons and the Maelstrom is simply better at going long range using artillery from what I can tell.
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 17:59:00 - [49] Originally by: Deitre Cibrus Originally by: Sarmaul Edited by: Sarmaul on 02/08/2006 16:59:35 So, what's the point of the tempest and megathron? Mega: Sniping and possibly a better tank with blasters Temp: Autocannons, since the new minnie BS is supposed to be slow. Rokh: better sniper Hyperion: Better close-range ship Phoon: Will own a tempest at close range. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:01:00 - [50] Originally by: Doc Brown My thoughts on the hype: Any bonus that requires a module isn't a real bonus. Agree, and fits the Maelstrom case as well.

Noriath	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:09:00 - [51] Originally by: Doc Brown My thoughts on the hype: Any bonus that requires a module isn't a real bonus. So +25% hybrid damage isn't a bonus because you have to fit guns?
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:11:00 - [52] Originally by: Noriath Originally by: Doc Brown My thoughts on the hype: Any bonus that requires a module isn't a real bonus. So +25% hybrid damage isn't a bonus because you have to fit guns? TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Doc Brown Gallente Tyrell Corp Curse Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:11:00 - [53] Originally by: Noriath Originally by: Doc Brown My thoughts on the hype: Any bonus that requires a module isn't a real bonus. So +25% hybrid damage isn't a bonus because you have to fit guns? Umm.. I didn't think about that. I guess it's more that more than one bonus that requires modules isn't really a bonus... _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Ramez Baltar ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:20:00 - [54] Originally by: Sarmaul snip Rokh: better sniper Hyperion: Better close-range ship Phoon: Will own a tempest at close range. Will the rokh outdamage the mega? Will the rokh really fit 8x425 II's with out problems? (Dont view this as sarcastic or anything, I fear outbreak members) Slightly changing gears. To me, I feel like if you are a sniper, you shouldnt get a sheild resist bonus, if a few people are on top of you, you should be screwed too boot.
Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:24:00 - [55] Edited by: Mr Bright on 02/08/2006 18:25:21 Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Noriath Originally by: Doc Brown My thoughts on the hype: Any bonus that requires a module isn't a real bonus. So +25% hybrid damage isn't a bonus because you have to fit guns? I think the gist was A single module as in fit a shield booster / mwd is the only way to get the bonus. A damage bonus is usefull for more than a single type of gun. But yes I saw the irony when you pointed it out, the point still holds true though. Edit: Might as well say that by "a single gun" I mean a weapon group ala Large hybrids
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:29:00 - [56] Originally by: Ramez Baltar Originally by: Sarmaul snip Rokh: better sniper Hyperion: Better close-range ship Phoon: Will own a tempest at close range. Will the rokh outdamage the mega? Will the rokh really fit 8x425 II's with out problems? The mega with 7 425mm IIs and a damage bonus has the damage output of 8.75 guns, while the Rokh with have 8. On the otherhand, the Rokh will have no need for tracking computers as with T2 ammo it will surpass 200km with BS 5. This will free up 3 slots for shield extenders and/or invuls. If it gets an extra slot over the tier1 and tier2s, it gives it a 4-slot passive tank which is perfect for taking huge amounts of damage in a short space of time. I don't know of a single Caldari railship that has issues fitting rails as rails have fairly low fitting requirements. As the Rokh will get no fewer than 4 lows it will be able to spare 1 for an RCU II (and if the ship needs more than one RCU II to fit a full rack of rails then CCP are gimping it in the worst place possible). That leaves 3 for damage mods. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:32:00 - [57] i wanna solo in my maelstrom..
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:33:00 - [58] Originally by: Chode Rizoum i wanna solo in my maelstrom.. Do you count sniping at gates solo? TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Jezala Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:42:00 - [59] Edited by: Jezala on 02/08/2006 18:47:36 Quote: Maelstrom med slots, the argument I've seen so far is that it needs at least 3 slots for speed mod, webbie and a scrambler, anything less than 4 slots is too little to tank with. I recognize that logic but we intend the Maelstrom to be a shield tanking artillery boat, relying on other ships to tackle for you. I completely agree with Tux here. The Maelstrom should not be a solo pvp ship, it's job is to bring the firepower to the fight while being able to absorb a bit of punishment. The Maelstrom should be relying on it's gangmates for the scrambling and webbing. If the Maelstrom wants to have the option to scram, web, or close distance very quickly, then it should sacrifice some of it's shield tanking ability to fit those mods. This is nothing new, we see it all the time with Ravens, Scorps, Feroxs, and Tempests. That being said, 4 mid slots is the very minimum to support a shield tank on a battleship. If we factor in the need for sensor boosters, ECCM, EWAR, then targeting comps, then there should be at least an additional 2 mid slots to give the Maelstrom some tactical flexibility. Therefore, in my opinion, the Maelstrom should have a total of 6 mid slots. Enough to properly support a shield tank and give a little bit of tactical flexibility. The Maelstrom pilots should have to face some kind of mid-slot trade-off whenever they deviate from the baseline roles/functions, similar to the delimia faced with the current battleships. Quote: Then again shield boost bonus isn't really terribly effective in fleets where you have potentially a lot of ships firing at you and damage output exceeds your tank's absorption by a wide margin. That's basically the reasoning for changing the Moa's shield boost bonus to resistance bonus originally. This is true for any other battleship in similar circumstances, so it's not like the Maelstrom would be more vulnerable than any other battleship in a fleet battle. The only option for any BS facing that amount of firepower is to warp out, and it would be during the warp out and warping back in when the Maelstrom shield bonus would be used. In those situations, it probably would be more effective for the Maelstrom to fit out with shield extenders which should give it enough hit points to survive a fleet volley and warp out. The Maelstrom bonus could then be used to rep up it's sheilds while it returns to the fight. Therefore the Maelstrom shield bonus is not useless during a fleet engagement. ...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option.
Aliza Snow	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:49:00 - [60] Edited by: Aliza Snow on 02/08/2006 18:52:59 EDIT: I note the comment "They use more grid than the heavy missile launcher but uses less CPU" which indicates there is a separate launcher module. Fixing my post to reflect that. Assault Missiles... I'm curious if the 25% more damage comes from just a flat increase on damage per hit, or faster ROF? Hmm 15000 meter range on the Assault Missile... if this is base without any skills, then: Max range with skills (Bombardment & Projection L5) of 33750 meters. Adding Cruiser L5 this gives 50625 meters on the Caracal. Or maybe my math is way off... They look OK on paper. I think the range is bad for PVP except gank setups, they will be good for ratting / missions if you have top skills to extend the range out. They are looking like basically a "Fury++" Heavy missile -- more damage and less range (and no penalty).

Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:54:00 - [61] Jezala I wonder if the Rohk will be getting 7 mid slots..... The use of the bonus to "buff up shields" before warping back to the fleet is kinda ... odd. But with 6 midslots, and the need to have 2-3 sensor booster and 2-3 tracking computers there arn't really much room for a shield booster. Not much to show for the 2nd bonus really...
Pepperami Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:54:00 - [62] Hmm, he missed the bit where he was announcing the Abaddon will be a drone ship..?
Jezala Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.02 18:59:00 - [63] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Ramez Baltar Originally by: Sarmaul snip Rokh: better sniper Hyperion: Better close-range ship Phoon: Will own a tempest at close range. Will the rokh outdamage the mega? Will the rokh really fit 8x425 II's with out problems? The mega with 7 425mm IIs and a damage bonus has the damage output of 8.75 guns, while the Rokh with have 8. On the otherhand, the Rokh will have no need for tracking computers as with T2 ammo it will surpass 200km with BS 5. This will free up 3 slots for shield extenders and/or invuls. If it gets an extra slot over the tier1 and tier2s, it gives it a 4-slot passive tank which is perfect for taking huge amounts of damage in a short space of time. I don't know of a single Caldari railship that has issues fitting rails as rails have fairly low fitting requirements. As the Rokh will get no fewer than 4 lows it will be able to spare 1 for an RCU II (and if the ship needs more than one RCU II to fit a full rack of rails then CCP are gimping it in the worst place possible). That leaves 3 for damage mods. I wouldn't worry too much about the Rokh, it has some glaring weak spots that more than offsets the sniping advantage. The primary one being the severe lack of tracking. Considering that the majority of engagements occur at the gates, the Rokh would be compeltely screwed if it was forced to engage at 30 km or less. Between 30 km and 100 km, tracking disruptors will ruin the Rokh's day. Beyond 100 km, the Rokh starts to approach it's comfort zone and it's adavantages starts to come into play. ...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option.
Jezala Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:05:00 - [64] Originally by: Mr Bright Jezala I wonder if the Rohk will be getting 7 mid slots..... The use of the bonus to "buff up shields" before warping back to the fleet is kinda ... odd. But with 6 midslots, and the need to have 2-3 sensor booster and 2-3 tracking computers there arn't really much room for a shield booster. Not much to show for the 2nd bonus really... To be honest with you, I can't come up for a decent arguement for why the Rohk needs 7 mid slots. With the resistance bonus and range bonus, 5 mids should be more than sufficient for fleet engagements at +150 km. A 5th and 6th mid slot might be necessary for tracking comps if the Devs intend for the Rokh to participate in shorter range engagements, less than 50 km. ...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option.
Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:10:00 - [65] Originally by: Jezala Originally by: Mr Bright Jezala I wonder if the Rohk will be getting 7 mid slots..... The use of the bonus to "buff up shields" before warping back to the fleet is kinda ... odd. But with 6 midslots, and the need to have 2-3 sensor booster and 2-3 tracking computers there arn't really much room for a shield booster. Not much to show for the 2nd bonus really... To be honest with you, I can't come up for a decent arguement for why the Rohk needs 7 mid slots. With the resistance bonus and range bonus, 5 mids should be more than sufficient for fleet engagements at +150 km. A 5th and 6th mid slot might be necessary for tracking comps if the Devs intend for the Rokh to participate in shorter range engagements, less than 50 km. Might I ask, and I am not all disagreeing with you, if a tracking bonus would be better for the maelstrom. Would give it a niece as a "close range" sniper.... though that would encroach on the megathrons area now its a sniper. though the tracking on 1400ers are abysmal, a solid tracking bonus might give it more usage as close range sniper.
Noriath	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:17:00 - [66] Clone range sniper?! That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard...
Derran Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:17:00 - [67] I can't say I am thrilled about the prospect of limited tanking on the tier 2 battlecruiser. As the game mechanics stand right now, if you can't fit even a slight tank on it, it will be dead before it really gets to do any damage. As a side note, I'm also not sure if I completely agree with Tux's statement on battleships being balanced, thus making it harder to squeeze in 4 more. When compared to other battleships, sure, I would consider them balanced. But I when I think of other ship classes, I still think it is much too easy for them to hit ships smaller than them using their huge guns. As someone who prefers using cruiser sized ships, I'm feeling a bit cheated.
Endlos Null Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:20:00 - [68] Hyperion... Hmm... Well if the Hyperion is already faster/more agile (not as a bonus but as base stats) than the Megathron, it had a cap-type bonus beforehand. Now the bonus is faster/more agile, will the capacitor base stats increase? To be honest, just give it a damage bonus please. Two +5% damage or +5 damage/+5 ROF.
Reithan Caldari Dark Planet Ventures	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:21:00 - [69] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne "The name Tier 3 is mostly just a name that we use to reference these four new battleships. It doesn't mean that they are like tier 2 battleships only better. In fact tier 1 and tier 2 battleships should do something better than the tier 3." Ok...so Tier three aren't ANY better than Tier one or Two....they just cost more ISK, have more slots overall, higher base stats and require more skills... Gotcha. I'll keep that in mind [/sarcasm]
Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:21:00 - [70] Originally by: Noriath Clone range sniper?! That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... Clone, I suppose you meant close - but I cant see anything else its good at... can you ?

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:22:00 - [71] Originally by: Derran I can't say I am thrilled about the prospect of limited tanking on the tier 2 battlecruiser. As the game mechanics stand right now, if you can't fit even a slight tank on it, it will be dead before it really gets to do any damage. As a side note, I'm also not sure if I completely agree with Tux's statement on battleships being balanced, thus making it harder to squeeze in 4 more. When compared to other battleships, sure, I would consider them balanced. But I when I think of other ship classes, I still think it is much too easy for them to hit ships smaller than them using their huge guns. As someone who prefers using cruiser sized ships, I'm feeling a bit cheated. Use tier 1 for tanking. Use tier 2 for ganking. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:29:00 - [72] Originally by: Reithan Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne "The name Tier 3 is mostly just a name that we use to reference these four new battleships. It doesn't mean that they are like tier 2 battleships only better. In fact tier 1 and tier 2 battleships should do something better than the tier 3." Ok...so Tier three aren't ANY better than Tier one or Two....they just cost more ISK, have more slots overall, higher base stats and require more skills... Gotcha. I'll keep that in mind [/sarcasm] that part was me quoting tux from a devblog ...in case you missed that.
Noriath	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:29:00 - [73] Originally by: Mr Bright Clone, I suppose you meant close - but I cant see anything else its good at... can you ? Yea, I meant close ;) That's why I said the bonus should be changed, because there really is no arena for midrange ships in Eve anymore... Either you are within 20km where you can scramble yourself, or you are as far away as it is anyhow possible, everything else is worthless because there aren't any really big disadvantages to long range ships. They can either engage in absolout safety or run from anything with less range unless it gets within 20km where it can scramble, so midrange is really a dead strategy in Eve.
Jezala Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:32:00 - [74] Originally by: Mr Bright Originally by: Jezala Originally by: Mr Bright Jezala I wonder if the Rohk will be getting 7 mid slots..... The use of the bonus to "buff up shields" before warping back to the fleet is kinda ... odd. But with 6 midslots, and the need to have 2-3 sensor booster and 2-3 tracking computers there arn't really much room for a shield booster. Not much to show for the 2nd bonus really... To be honest with you, I can't come up for a decent arguement for why the Rohk needs 7 mid slots. With the resistance bonus and range bonus, 5 mids should be more than sufficient for fleet engagements at +150 km. A 5th and 6th mid slot might be necessary for tracking comps if the Devs intend for the Rokh to participate in shorter range engagements, less than 50 km. Might I ask, and I am not all disagreeing with you, if a tracking bonus would be better for the maelstrom. Would give it a niece as a "close range" sniper.... though that would encroach on the megathrons area now its a sniper. though the tracking on 1400ers are abysmal, a solid tracking bonus might give it more usage as close range sniper. I'm not sure, it depends on what the devs envision the primary role of the Maelstrom to be. Based on what Tux has giving us so far, the Devs intend the Maelstrom role to be, a shield tanking, artillery platform, with a high alpha-strike battleship. A sniping battleship that initially hits harder than the Tempest, but who's dps is less than the tempest when the missile launchers are factored in. So it sounds like they want the Tempest to fill in the role of a "close range sniper" where missiles are a factor and the Maelstrom as a "long range sniper" where turret damage is the dominating factor, as oppose to missile and drones. If that is the case, then I would argue it is the tempest that could benefit from a tracking bonus, solidifying it's role as a short range sniper, and the Maelstrom would be better served with an additional damage bonus or a damage bonus replacing the ROF bonus. ...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option.
Reithan Caldari Dark Planet Ventures	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:32:00 - [75] Sorry, that wasn't directed at you, I just didn't change the "Quote from" bit.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:45:00 - [76] Edited by: Grimpak on 02/08/2006 19:47:20 Originally by: Endlos Null Hyperion... Hmm... Well if the Hyperion is already faster/more agile (not as a bonus but as base stats) than the Megathron, it had a cap-type bonus beforehand. Now the bonus is faster/more agile, will the capacitor base stats increase? To be honest, just give it a damage bonus please. Two +5% damage or +5 damage/+5 ROF. 5% dmg and 5% RoF = bit less than a DOT of 1600dmg with neutrons btw, altho it is outdamaged by every ship starting from arround the 15km range. tbh I would like to see it. allot. Hyperion, the ultimate short range BS even capable of beating a raven. ...oohhh.. i'm drooling. and Jezala, imho if the deves want to make the maelstorm into a long range artilery shield tanking ship that pleases everyone I would change the bonuses to 10% shield capacity and 5% L proj damage. altho it can do over 7000dmg of alpha strike (according to sarmaul afaik), it would still be a good fleet ship since you would be able to mount a nice passive tank on it. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:57:00 - [77] I'm a bit confused about the assault missile launcher fitting that was mentioned. What are the ships that are going to most often use assault launchers? Nighthawk and Cerberus come to mind, maybe the Caracal and Ferox, and some ships from various races that have split turret/missile slot layouts. For the true missile specialist ships, aren't they already CPU-heavy and grid-poor to match up well with launcher use? It sure seems to me if the new version of assault launchers are going to be grid pigs and low on CPU, that's going to introduce two problems. 1. Ships that would use them will be too low on grid to fit them and also have a decent tank, which is generally what low-range setups tend toward, since they potentially take more damage. 2. There won't be any lower fitting options for missile launchers on medium ships. Ships with mixed weapons slots that now use assaults to save fitting for guns won't have a low-fitting launcher option unless they downgrade to standards, which is pretty lame. Missile specialist ships that used to use assaults to be able to fit bigger tanks or whatnot also won't have any medium options for downgrading. All the turret users have multiple options to finesse their fitting, but medium missile users will be stuck with heavy launchers as their lowest option. It sure seems like missile fittings are going to be much more limited in choices than they are now, and it seems to break one of the more common module fitting trends in the game, namely that lower-range weapons have lower fitting than longer-range ones. Obviously there is some desire for this new missile type, but I think a lot of folks are overlooking just how useful the current assault launchers are.
Ather Ialeas Viziam	Posted - 2006.08.02 19:58:00 - [78] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Derran I can't say I am thrilled about the prospect of limited tanking on the tier 2 battlecruiser. As the game mechanics stand right now, if you can't fit even a slight tank on it, it will be dead before it really gets to do any damage. As a side note, I'm also not sure if I completely agree with Tux's statement on battleships being balanced, thus making it harder to squeeze in 4 more. When compared to other battleships, sure, I would consider them balanced. But I when I think of other ship classes, I still think it is much too easy for them to hit ships smaller than them using their huge guns. As someone who prefers using cruiser sized ships, I'm feeling a bit cheated. Use tier 1 for tanking. Use tier 2 for ganking. Or use tier 3 for ganking. Or use tier 3 for tanking with projectiles. Can you see the problem? ________________________________________________ Originally by: Nidhoggur How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
Gierling Gallente Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:02:00 - [79] No Grimpak, because people will still be able to fit railguns on the damn thing that is not a reasonable set of bonuses. You would end up with obscene stuff like a dual 250 mega tank absolutely destroying gankageddons, and there would be no point in ever undocking in a megathron ever again for any reason. two damage bonuses aint happenning, accept it and move on I figure it will probably have something like a capacitor bonus and maybe a rof bonus and even then it still might lose a turret slot. I'm getting real sick of people asking for these ships to be made into absolutely disgustingly unbalanced pownmobiles. Please stop and Grimpak your one of the worst offendors, right up there with the people who want a double damage bonus on the Abbadon and Maelstrom. Stop
Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:05:00 - [80] Well Tux, I'm a little perplexed atm. Amarr pilots have a thread of 51 pages atm & growing. I've seen more Abaddon complaint threads than Hyperion or Maelstrom. Amarr Pilots are starting the Dont Nerf Nos threads, Boost Lasers, Change Apoc. So, my conclusion & hope is that Tux & the other Devs have recognized our complaints & will address it in a full blog up coming. I just can't understand why we'd be ignored for so long unless that was the truth. If not, I think I'm done with Eve once & forall. I'm approaching my 3rd year straight of playing, no breaks the entire time. 2 years solid of having 2 accounts. I have over 46.5 mil skill points, own a carrier & dreadnought. My main focus has always been Amarr since I understood that specialization was the way to go. I will never cross train! I can fly a Raven & Mega, because back in the day it was the thing to do. If I could just drop those skill points for nothing in return I would. So, Tux, Please, Announce something for the Faithful Amarr! If you are fearful of flaming, let Kieron or Oveur do it. All we want is an answer so we can move on. If the answer is Amarr is fine, shut up, say it so I can stop wasting my time. If you recognize the problem but have yet to know what to do about it....Say So. If you have a plan up & coming, give a hint of it. WE NEED TO KNOW!!!

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:07:00 - [81] Originally by: Cosmo Raata Well Tux, I'm a little perplexed atm. Amarr pilots have a thread of 51 pages atm & growing. I knew you guys would do this. Just sit around talking about Amarr in general and then point at the thread and say "Hey! Look at all those pages and no Tux reply! He must hate Amarr". If you think the number of pages in that thread will make Tux reply, I believe he will prove you wrong. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:10:00 - [82] Originally by: Ather Ialeas Or use tier 3 for ganking. Or use tier 3 for tanking with projectiles. Can you see the problem? No... I was talking about the tier 1 and tier 2 battlecruisers. They seem to have a different purpose, which is good imo. They dont replace eachother. Tier 1 is for tanking and tier 2 is for ganking. Sorry if im missing your point... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ather Ialeas Viziam	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:10:00 - [83] Originally by: Jim McGregor If you think the number of pages in that thread will make Tux reply, I believe he will prove you wrong. We have tried both amount of posts as proven above, Sarmaul even decided to help us and thought to use reason in his Khanid MKII thread and at the moment there's a thread about Abaddon + some general blabber about Amarr as a race in the same forum which is based on facts, what players want and even the friggin' backstory of the game. Nothing seems to help though and we are running out of ideas here. Well okay, there's one more though...an ultimatum. But those generally don't work at all. ________________________________________________ Originally by: Nidhoggur How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:13:00 - [84] Originally by: Ather Ialeas We have tried both amount of posts as proven above, Sarmaul even decided to help us and thought to use reason in his Khanid MKII thread and at the moment there's a thread about Abaddon + some general blabber about Amarr as a race in the same forum which is based on facts, what players want and even the friggin' backstory of the game. Nothing seems to help though and we are running out of ideas here. Well okay, there's one more though...an ultimatum. But those generally don't work at all. Its my impression that he is more interested in gallente and caldari than amarr and minmatar too. Sorry if im wrong about this, but i can honestly say thats the feeling I get this far. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:20:00 - [85] Edited by: Cosmo Raata on 02/08/2006 20:21:32 Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Ather Ialeas We have tried both amount of posts as proven above, Sarmaul even decided to help us and thought to use reason in his Khanid MKII thread and at the moment there's a thread about Abaddon + some general blabber about Amarr as a race in the same forum which is based on facts, what players want and even the friggin' backstory of the game. Nothing seems to help though and we are running out of ideas here. Well okay, there's one more though...an ultimatum. But those generally don't work at all. Its my impression that he is more interested in gallente and caldari than amarr and minmatar too. Sorry if im wrong about this, but i can honestly say thats the feeling I get this far. Well, you're probably right.....it seems like I'm just plain out of luck. In which case I'll just do what I said, Cut my losses & leave. CCP isn't about to let me trade my character for the same skilled Gallante character now are they! I could try the WTT Forum to try to get a 45.5 mil skill point perfectly specialized gallante character, but who would let go of such a character when they know Tux is in their corner & will do whatever is needed to help them succeed?
KilROCK Minmatar Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:22:00 - [86] Edited by: KilROCK on 02/08/2006 20:25:01 Hmm, When Tuxford posted in the hyperion topic in ship and modules, he mentioned it had this hilarious bonus for mass reduction... I thought he was actually being sarcastic.... Shesh, someone needs a clue But i still think there's hope, he did mention it might need a double damage bonus or a tanking bonus. MAYBE He'll see the light after he's done getting a tan on vacation And about the maelstorm, i do beleive i told youuuu soooooooooooooooooooooooo.. SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Yendri	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:26:00 - [87] Originally by: Stephar Please reexamine the Abaddon. You said in your first blog that it could be used for either tanking or ganking, but I still don't understand how it can sustain any sort of tank and shoot lasers at the same time. This is a prime example of people unable to understand the word "or". Please select from one of the Following: [ ] An Abbadon with great tanking ability [ ] An Abbadon with great ganking ability you may tick one box at any time. not both. Congratualtions. you have now discovered the meaning of the word "or". Next?
Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:28:00 - [88] I'm Just in complete awe that he has the time to make a dev blog, mention minmitar, & gallente...but leaves out Amarr & Caldari. I'm fairly sure Caldari is pretty happy having the best sniper ship in game, most threads talk about how to fit them, not how they want them changed. To say Amarr pilots are satisfied would be a joke. So Again, check up my previous reply to the thread so see my hopeful theory. At this point I'm more hopeful of winning the Super Lotto though.
Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:36:00 - [89] Originally by: Yendri Originally by: Stephar Please reexamine the Abaddon. You said in your first blog that it could be used for either tanking or ganking, but I still don't understand how it can sustain any sort of tank and shoot lasers at the same time. This is a prime example of people unable to understand the word "or". Please select from one of the Following: [ ] An Abbadon with great tanking ability [ ] An Abbadon with great ganking ability you may tick one box at any time. not both. Congratualtions. you have now discovered the meaning of the word "or". Next? He said ANY SORT OF LASERS, you see, if you knew anything about amarr ships, you'd know that short of fitting small or medium guns, with the amount of cap any LARGE gun uses w/o the cap bonus, you're completely & utterly screwed! So here is your options bud: [ ] Fit 8 Tach 2's, 2 sensor booster 2's, 2 tracking computer 2's, 3 heat sink 2's, 1 co-processor 2, 1 rcu2, 1 adaptive nano 2 & a warp core stab. Yay, shoot until something comes near & warp! Make sure you're aligned or your screwed. [ ] Put the newly nerfed Nos in highs, 2 webs, 1 cap booster & 1 scram, 2 large reps, 3 adaptive nanos, 2 completly pointless lows (fit whatever you want, as you'd already have the best tank in game). This gives you a ship that will do less than the apoc, tanks & watches its friends kill you. You fit guns & you'll cap out, PERIOD! Unless of course you put 2 cap injectors on & hope that TUX gives the ship 700m3 cargo, which aint happening. In conclusion, do you choose the awesome sniping damage dealer that must warp if a frig comes near, or the tanking beast that has to fit projectiles to do anything without capping?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:44:00 - [90] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 02/08/2006 20:44:48 Originally by: Cosmo Raata Originally by: Yendri Originally by: Stephar Please reexamine the Abaddon. You said in your first blog that it could be used for either tanking or ganking, but I still don't understand how it can sustain any sort of tank and shoot lasers at the same time. This is a prime example of people unable to understand the word "or". Please select from one of the Following: [ ] An Abbadon with great tanking ability [ ] An Abbadon with great ganking ability you may tick one box at any time. not both. Congratualtions. you have now discovered the meaning of the word "or". Next? He said ANY SORT OF LASERS, you see, if you knew anything about amarr ships, you'd know that short of fitting small or medium guns, with the amount of cap any LARGE gun uses w/o the cap bonus, you're completely & utterly screwed! So here is your options bud: [ ] Fit 8 Tach 2's, 2 sensor booster 2's, 2 tracking computer 2's, 3 heat sink 2's, 1 co-processor 2, 1 rcu2, 1 adaptive nano 2 & a warp core stab. Yay, shoot until something comes near & warp! Make sure you're aligned or your screwed. [ ] Put the newly nerfed Nos in highs, 2 webs, 1 cap booster & 1 scram, 2 large reps, 3 adaptive nanos, 2 completly pointless lows (fit whatever you want, as you'd already have the best tank in game). This gives you a ship that will do less than the apoc, tanks & watches its friends kill you. You fit guns & you'll cap out, PERIOD! Unless of course you put 2 cap injectors on & hope that TUX gives the ship 700m3 cargo, which aint happening. In conclusion, do you choose the awesome sniping damage dealer that must warp if a frig comes near, or the tanking beast that has to fit projectiles to do anything without capping? You just showed an extreme tank setup and a extreme gank setup. You should really go for something in between like all of us have to do. If you fit the smallest large guns and a cap injector, will you get a decent tank? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

Judicator Aldaris Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:50:00 - [91] Originally by: Wizzkidy Im annoyed, all I keep hearing about is "missles" and how CCP is going to add this and that for missile users and how these other race ship are going to be different and how this and that are not "balanced" I really want to hear something about laser weapons and ammar ships, I think by now it's obvious that ammar are not balanced at all with other races. and low and behold not even a mention about the new ammar bs? Why oh why do ammar get the short end of the stick every single time? I mean what ever happend to the reduction in grid and CPU for Tachyons? I saw one mention about it and then never again. Please give ammar some love for once, they already have a hard enough time already when it comes to tanking and ganking unlike other races /SIGNED Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 02/08/2006 17:43:05 unfortunately tux seems to have forgotten to spend some time to rectify the mistakes/omissions he made in regards to the abaddon in his last devblog. so i'm just gonna try and point out 3 of the more irritating points: 1. lets start with the major contradiction first: "The name Tier 3 is mostly just a name that we use to reference these four new battleships. It doesn't mean that they are like tier 2 battleships only better. In fact tier 1 and tier 2 battleships should do something better than the tier 3." "It has the option of more damage than an Armageddon or a better tank than an Apocalypse." so...seeing as what the geddon does best is dealing damage and what the apoc does best is tanking damage... could we have any more information regarding what these ships will be able to do better than an abaddon? i'm assuming it will be one of the less noticeable features..like the apocs ability to perform as an electronic warfare platform maybe. 2. what disturbs me a bit more is that i seem to be unable to grasp this "new role" the abaddon is suposed to fill. and i'm pretty sure that the point of adding new tier 3 battleships was not to just get a better version of the existing ones. so i was actually hoping tux would go ahead and explain the new role he sees for this ship. 3. lastly a little mistake which lead to some confusion in regards to the abaddons slot layout: "Slot wise its gonna have 8 turret hardpoints, 8 high slots and 8 low slots. Whether it has one more slot than the Apocalypse isn't really decided but its quite clear that if it does then it will be a med slot." if it gets 8 lowslots that would already be one more than the apoc has. so i'm assuming he just meant the geddon there. an easy mistake to make considering how similar the amarrian battleships are. anyway i would be very happy if tux (or maybe some other dev) could provide the information missing there. /SOOO SIGNED! "The name Tier 3 is mostly just a name that we use to reference these four new battleships. It doesn't mean that they are like tier 2 battleships only better. In fact tier 1 and tier 2 battleships should do something better than the tier 3." -Tux- "It has the option of more damage than an Armageddon or a better tank than an Apocalypse" -Tux- As everybody knows, the geddon is good at ganking and the apoc is a good tanker. Do u see the contradiction? what would the apoc and the geddon would be better at? please enlight me
Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:50:00 - [92] I would have to play around with it to know for sure. But the point is that its near impossible to have both a tank with some gank because of cap issues. I can gank & tank in my geddy, contrary to what most tell you. But cap is a big issue, as well as PG on the geddy. I'm sure I can get around the PG issue on this ship, maybe it will work with mega pulses & 2 cap injectors, but then is it any different than the armageddon??
Yendri	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:52:00 - [93] Originally by: Cosmo Raata He said ANY SORT OF LASERS, you see, if you knew anything about amarr ships, you'd know that short of fitting small or medium guns, with the amount of cap any LARGE gun uses w/o the cap bonus, you're completely & utterly screwed! So here is your options bud: <snip> In conclusion, do you choose the awesome sniping damage dealer that must warp if a frig comes near, or the tanking beast that has to fit projectiles to do anything without capping? Sounds about right. do you choose a great damage dealer... OR a great tank, and compromise your weapons. I'd say that's pretty much spot on in design. Now let's see if the same compromises must be given to every other ship too... of corse, perhaps they should give it triple cap, a few more bonuses, perhaps a 2km3 drone bay, 9/9/9 slots, and a free kitten with it, to keep the people who can't understand the words "or" and "compromise" but instead want to have all the cake, and eat it. perhaps, and a ground-breaking concept, it's designed so you can't have both at once? it's terribly selfish of the devs not to give all the toys in one box isn't it...?
Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:06:00 - [94] Originally by: Yendri Originally by: Cosmo Raata He said ANY SORT OF LASERS, you see, if you knew anything about amarr ships, you'd know that short of fitting small or medium guns, with the amount of cap any LARGE gun uses w/o the cap bonus, you're completely & utterly screwed! So here is your options bud: <snip> In conclusion, do you choose the awesome sniping damage dealer that must warp if a frig comes near, or the tanking beast that has to fit projectiles to do anything without capping? Sounds about right. do you choose a great damage dealer... OR a great tank, and compromise your weapons. I'd say that's pretty much spot on in design. Now let's see if the same compromises must be given to every other ship too... of corse, perhaps they should give it triple cap, a few more bonuses, perhaps a 2km3 drone bay, 9/9/9 slots, and a free kitten with it, to keep the people who can't understand the words "or" and "compromise" but instead want to have all the cake, and eat it. perhaps, and a ground-breaking concept, it's designed so you can't have both at once? it's terribly selfish of the devs not to give all the toys in one box isn't it...? So do all 1 1/2 month old character know so much about ship design? I wonder where all these anti-amarr people come from anyways? Did they get blown up by a ship one time & decided to flame every Amarr boost request? Are all the posts from alts in the infamous "Amarr" Thread from Tux himself? Does the Chinese Server already have Amarr removed from the database? Does no one respect their elder eve players? So many questions!!! Maybe, just maybe having a kitten with my apoc would make me feel better. i swear that the Megathron has 2 dogs & a Llama included with it now. In All, WHY THE F NOT?
El Ponja Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:07:00 - [95] Originally by: Judicator Aldaris "The name Tier 3 is mostly just a name that we use to reference these four new battleships. It doesn't mean that they are like tier 2 battleships only better. In fact tier 1 and tier 2 battleships should do something better than the tier 3." -Tux- "It has the option of more damage than an Armageddon or a better tank than an Apocalypse" -Tux- As everybody knows, the geddon is good at ganking and the apoc is a good tanker. Do u see the contradiction? what would the apoc and the geddon would be better at? please enlight me /signed i would love to hear the answer also _____________ Amarr KhanidMKII
El Ponja Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:11:00 - [96] Edited by: El Ponja on 02/08/2006 21:11:33 Originally by: Yendri Originally by: Cosmo Raata He said ANY SORT OF LASERS, you see, if you knew anything about amarr ships, you'd know that short of fitting small or medium guns, with the amount of cap any LARGE gun uses w/o the cap bonus, you're completely & utterly screwed! So here is your options bud: <snip> In conclusion, do you choose the awesome sniping damage dealer that must warp if a frig comes near, or the tanking beast that has to fit projectiles to do anything without capping? Sounds about right. do you choose a great damage dealer... OR a great tank, and compromise your weapons. I'd say that's pretty much spot on in design. Now let's see if the same compromises must be given to every other ship too... of corse, perhaps they should give it triple cap, a few more bonuses, perhaps a 2km3 drone bay, 9/9/9 slots, and a free kitten with it, to keep the people who can't understand the words "or" and "compromise" but instead want to have all the cake, and eat it. perhaps, and a ground-breaking concept, it's designed so you can't have both at once? it's terribly selfish of the devs not to give all the toys in one box isn't it...? if u have a great tank and cant do damage you wont kill anyone. if u are a great ganker and u cant tank anything u wont kill anyone either. so the thing is about balance between the two, something that has been wrong about amarrians since the start, or is a ganker or its a tanker. _____________ Amarr KhanidMKII
Leilani Solaris Gallente Torment.	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:31:00 - [97] Still no love for amarr
Leilani Solaris Gallente Torment.	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:37:00 - [98] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 02/08/2006 20:44:48 Originally by: Cosmo Raata Originally by: Yendri Originally by: Stephar Please reexamine the Abaddon. You said in your first blog that it could be used for either tanking or ganking, but I still don't understand how it can sustain any sort of tank and shoot lasers at the same time. This is a prime example of people unable to understand the word "or". Please select from one of the Following: [ ] An Abbadon with great tanking ability [ ] An Abbadon with great ganking ability you may tick one box at any time. not both. Congratualtions. you have now discovered the meaning of the word "or". Next? He said ANY SORT OF LASERS, you see, if you knew anything about amarr ships, you'd know that short of fitting small or medium guns, with the amount of cap any LARGE gun uses w/o the cap bonus, you're completely & utterly screwed! So here is your options bud: [ ] Fit 8 Tach 2's, 2 sensor booster 2's, 2 tracking computer 2's, 3 heat sink 2's, 1 co-processor 2, 1 rcu2, 1 adaptive nano 2 & a warp core stab. Yay, shoot until something comes near & warp! Make sure you're aligned or your screwed. [ ] Put the newly nerfed Nos in highs, 2 webs, 1 cap booster & 1 scram, 2 large reps, 3 adaptive nanos, 2 completly pointless lows (fit whatever you want, as you'd already have the best tank in game). This gives you a ship that will do less than the apoc, tanks & watches its friends kill you. You fit guns & you'll cap out, PERIOD! Unless of course you put 2 cap injectors on & hope that TUX gives the ship 700m3 cargo, which aint happening. In conclusion, do you choose the awesome sniping damage dealer that must warp if a frig comes near, or the tanking beast that has to fit projectiles to do anything without capping? You just showed an extreme tank setup and a extreme gank setup. You should really go for something in between like all of us have to do. If you fit the smallest large guns and a cap injector, will you get a decent tank? In short, no. We worked it out that even with 7 dual heavy pulses (the smallest large lasers) they use 800 cap every 10 seconds, meaning you need a cap booster on permanently to keep your cap up, if you want to tank aswell you'd need another cap booster just to run your rep, otherwise your cap is going to die very fast.. along with your ship. I'd rather the Abaddon either had a damage bonus instead of the RoF bonus or a cap bonus. At least if it had a cap bonus it would be an awesome tanker with limited damage capability. With the damage bonus it'd be a good damage dealer with the ability to tank or gank and it wouldn't chew through your cap so quickly.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:09:00 - [99] Tier-2 BCs = 40m isk ships that can only take on cruisers and smaller t1 ships = daft. Thats all there is to be said about it, really. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:10:00 - [100] Originally by: Gierling No Grimpak, because people will still be able to fit railguns on the damn thing that is not a reasonable set of bonuses. You would end up with obscene stuff like a dual 250 mega tank absolutely destroying gankageddons, and there would be no point in ever undocking in a megathron ever again for any reason. two damage bonuses aint happenning, accept it and move on I figure it will probably have something like a capacitor bonus and maybe a rof bonus and even then it still might lose a turret slot. I'm getting real sick of people asking for these ships to be made into absolutely disgustingly unbalanced pownmobiles. Please stop and Grimpak your one of the worst offendors, right up there with the people who want a double damage bonus on the Abbadon and Maelstrom. Stop geez fine. You have a better idea to make the Hyperion a good blasterboat without throwing out the rest of the ships out of balance? ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.

Apertotes Nuevos Horizontes	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:11:00 - [101] Quote: Maelstrom med slots, the argument I've seen so far is that it needs at least 3 slots for speed mod, webbie and a scrambler, anything less than 4 slots is too little to tank with. I recognize that logic but we intend the Maelstrom to be a shield tanking artillery boat, relying on other ships to tackle for you. Then again shield boost bonus isn't really terribly effective in fleets where you have potentially a lot of ships firing at you and damage output exceeds your tank's absorption by a wide margin. That's basically the reasoning for changing the Moa's shield boost bonus to resistance bonus originally. ok, then i guess the rokh isnt supposed to tackle for herself either, since it is a large railgun boat, with optimal bonus, and should be firing far above scrambler range. so it will get 6 mid slots too, right? Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:17:00 - [102] while i do not agree with everything, its nice we got a little devblog to keep as a bit more up to date i feel abit sorry for Tux, this is like dropping some meat into a cage of rabid dogs, who then procceed to complain that they didnt get to rip off his arm Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:21:00 - [103] Originally by: Tiuwaz while i do not agree with everything, its nice we got a little devblog to keep as a bit more up to date i feel abit sorry for Tux, this is like dropping some meat into a cage of rabid dogs, who then procceed to complain that they didnt get to rip off his arm I have a voodoo doll for that purpose. No, seriously. People are just not understanding why the Rohk is so good, the Maelstrom so bad etc. Maybe we are just not seeing the game like Tux does. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jezala Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:42:00 - [104] Originally by: Tiuwaz while i do not agree with everything, its nice we got a little devblog to keep as a bit more up to date i feel abit sorry for Tux, this is like dropping some meat into a cage of rabid dogs, who then procceed to complain that they didnt get to rip off his arm So long as he is willing to communicate with the players, maintain a thick skin, and willing to accept input from the player (doesn't mean he has to act on them) then I think he'll grow into an excellent designer/developer. ...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option.
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:42:00 - [105] Originally by: Yendri Originally by: Stephar Please reexamine the Abaddon. You said in your first blog that it could be used for either tanking or ganking, but I still don't understand how it can sustain any sort of tank and shoot lasers at the same time. This is a prime example of people unable to understand the word "or". Please select from one of the Following: [ ] An Abbadon with great tanking ability [ ] An Abbadon with great ganking ability you may tick one box at any time. not both. Congratualtions. you have now discovered the meaning of the word "or". Next? You're missing the point here, his point was that without a cap reduction bonus for lasers it will burn through cap quickly, regardless of the tank. It is really hard to say how it will handle cap until we get the stats on it though. that being said it should've been a drone ship and bla bla bla bla bla...
Xac Xander	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:49:00 - [106] It seems to me that part of introducing tier 3 BS's is both to make the new BS's worthwhile having and also to ensure the existing tier 1 & 2 ships have a place in the scheme of things. (I can only speak from the perspective of Minmatar because that is all I fly at the moment.) Typhoon is a heavy armour tank with either long or short range abilities. Tempest is long range only with medium tank. Maelstrom seems to be long range only with questionable tank. As designed: Autos dont make sense, u would use a Tempest instead. EW wont be an option due to shield tank and the fact u will need tracking computers fitted for long range. You state the Maelstrom is supposed to be for fleet combat with a large primary hit. In that case drop both bonuses as they dont fit your requirement. Make it an armour tank and so freeing mid slots for tracking. 7.5% bonus to damage, even 10% with a nerf of say 2.5% on ROF if it works in testing. 5% bonus to optimal range 5% to armour hp/resistances if u have to nerf the optimal range,, but again doesnt fit your requirement. The lack of a rate of fire fits the bill I think, if it is the initial hit you are after. I personally dont like this but it makes a lot more sense than the bonuses you have put in. Or if u are really crafty,, why dont u bring in specialist weapons that Tier 3 ships get specific bonuses with as per strip miners and cloaks ? Perhaps this is too late in the dev cycle though to be bringing out specific modules. Personally I would like to see a duo role ship with either short or long range capabilities. For that u would need a large drone bay, 7 low slots as phoon, optimal range and ROF bonuses.
Princess Morenta	Posted - 2006.08.02 23:03:00 - [107] Originally by: Apertotes Quote: Maelstrom med slots, the argument I've seen so far is that it needs at least 3 slots for speed mod, webbie and a scrambler, anything less than 4 slots is too little to tank with. I recognize that logic but we intend the Maelstrom to be a shield tanking artillery boat, relying on other ships to tackle for you. Then again shield boost bonus isn't really terribly effective in fleets where you have potentially a lot of ships firing at you and damage output exceeds your tank's absorption by a wide margin. That's basically the reasoning for changing the Moa's shield boost bonus to resistance bonus originally. ok, then i guess the rokh isnt supposed to tackle for herself either, since it is a large railgun boat, with optimal bonus, and should be firing far above scrambler range. so it will get 6 mid slots too, right? Blaster *****anyone?
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.02 23:14:00 - [108] Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Jim McGregor If you think the number of pages in that thread will make Tux reply, I believe he will prove you wrong. We have tried both amount of posts as proven above, Sarmaul even decided to help us and thought to use reason in his Khanid MKII thread and at the moment there's a thread about Abaddon + some general blabber about Amarr as a race in the same forum which is based on facts, what players want and even the friggin' backstory of the game. Nothing seems to help though and we are running out of ideas here. Well okay, there's one more though...an ultimatum. But those generally don't work at all. Actually it's mostly based on misinformation, whines and ppl with no clue clapping each other on the back saying how Amarr sucks. Strangely enough noone replied to Rod's post about how both Evolution and BNC, two premier PVP corps, have amarr ships piloted by more than 50% of their respective pilots in the last year. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14)
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2006.08.02 23:16:00 - [109] Am I the only one considering these "assault rockets"? The new Drake Caldari BC w/ a full set of assault launchers inside 15km is just going to crush a Brutix with it's increased DPS, no tracking requirements, and variable damage types. Because I said so...
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2006.08.02 23:16:00 - [110] As mentioned before: - still no love for Amarr - still no love for drones - ow sweet, short-ish range uber missiles, we needed that [/sarcasm] And if the Maelstrom doesn't get 7 med slots as an 'arty shield tank'.. well I might get those BF2 medals i still need As for the non tanking tier 2 BC.. seriously.. I understand that some of the devs after like 4 years of playing really feel pvp is the main thing in eve, but geez make some new missions and have the new ships able to tank em... /me sighs Thanx for the info tho, helps me in planning /me scraps all spaceship command training after freighter back to science and stuff - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please

Hydrian Alante The Loot Company	Posted - 2006.08.02 23:48:00 - [111] Originally by: murder one Am I the only one considering these "assault rockets"? The new Drake Caldari BC w/ a full set of assault launchers inside 15km is just going to crush a Brutix with it's increased DPS, no tracking requirements, and variable damage types. Maybe this ship has an higher dps than a 6 launcher cruise Raven. You will shred everthing to pieces that is bigger than a frig. And this without no cap-usage, no tracking and a range up to 40km. Yeah Caldari ships needed a boost...
Kitty O'Shay Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.03 00:09:00 - [112] Originally by: murder one Am I the only one considering these "assault rockets"? The new Drake Caldari BC w/ a full set of assault launchers inside 15km is just going to crush a Brutix with it's increased DPS, no tracking requirements, and variable damage types. Yep, all I can saw is screw it, I'm training for one. -- [THARS] is recruiting 1 ebil pirate. Be the one!
Yendri	Posted - 2006.08.03 00:15:00 - [113] Edited by: Yendri on 03/08/2006 00:15:41 Originally by: Cosmo Raata So do all 1 1/2 month old character know so much about ship design? Depends, if they have been following Eve's development since the initial product announcement in late 2000, have an alt that's been around for 3 years (a character that's mothballed because I wanted a change, to try a roleplaying corp; somethng I've not done before.), and perhaps - most significantly - happen to be a professional game designer with a list of titles. that's what I know about game design, the majority of which applies to eve just as nicely as it does to other titles. ---- now, having followed the raw statistics that a few posters have put up here and in the other threads, from extrapolated data, I agree that if it does indeed burn through the entire cap in a few volleys as a ganker, leaving the entire ship gimped, that must be addressed to allow it to be able to operate as a firing platform. within CCP's percentile bonus framework, I'm uncertain of an elegant solution to that balance detailing, however, that will allow the either/or option to work cleanly however. If it is designed so that a compromise between setup (an either/or) options is at the core of its design philosophy, then it should be designed so that players have to make a choice of what to go for: Great damage, Great Tank, or average both, rather than offering players Oveurs' much-derided "solo pwnmobile" as a result. that's good design. in many ways, I'd be saying the other three (particularly the rokh) need to be addressed to have such a setup desicion placed on their pilots. (oh, and yes, I have played using amarr characters and BSs - before you use that line again, mate. I do suspect that amarr are the most gimped ships in eve, relatively speaking, but it's not an anti-amarr rant. I'll reserve my opinions on how bent the rokh is, however, till I've playtested one on sisi. revolutionary concept on the forums, I know, but I like to have hard facts first.)
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2006.08.03 00:22:00 - [114] Originally by: Kitty O'Shay Originally by: murder one Am I the only one considering these "assault rockets"? The new Drake Caldari BC w/ a full set of assault launchers inside 15km is just going to crush a Brutix with it's increased DPS, no tracking requirements, and variable damage types. Yep, all I can saw is screw it, I'm training for one. Ya, sadly I see this in my future as well. Because I said so...
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force	Posted - 2006.08.03 01:08:00 - [115] Well, if we really can't have capacitor charge bonuses, then I'd settle for exponential cargo bay from frigate>cruiser>BS.
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2006.08.03 01:12:00 - [116] Will Ass. Missiles require yet more skills ie: Ass. Specialisation for Tech II or will these just fall under the Standard Missile umbrella MOOCIFER Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer
Mordrake MetaForge HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.08.03 01:18:00 - [117] Edited by: Mordrake on 03/08/2006 01:20:14 Originally by: D'Nar Interesting. I don't think I'll be buying the first Rokh that comes off the assembly line, because I noticed from BC and on, caldari ships are (or were, I guess) very heavily focused towards missile use, and trained more missile skills for that reason. However, I think this is a good decision for those who prefer hybrids to missiles (they exist, I believe there are a few in my corp) to have a decent BS they can play with. On that note, I wonder if the caldari Tier 2 BC is going to also focus on hybrids, to balance the missile-focus of the Ferox... Never mind, I just checked the slot configuration on it, and you can fit as many hybrids as launchers. Oh, well, at least we get a BS-sized gunboat now. The Ferox is a Rail Boat... read the bonuses ; ] I have high hopes that the new Tier 2 Caldari BC is a true Missile boat!! "Arte et Marte"
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.08.03 02:03:00 - [118] Originally by: Ryysa the problem with maelstrom would be though, that with 7 mids, it would have better shieldtank than caldari ships, which seems somehow "wrong"... if you know what i mean... It's not like raven can tackle either... I'd actually be fairly happy if it had 6 slots, you can have a 4 slot tank and use webdrones or something... this bugs weirda. and not just you saying it (think it started with Jenny Spitfire) ships that have bonuses to their mid slots tend to have a lot of mids... hence scorpion, blackbird, recon ships... raven does NOT have a mid slot bonus (caldari or not). maelstorm does. it would not make any sense at ALL for it to have less mids then raven, and ONLY make sense for it to have more. whether tux say that the '3 taken slots for mwd/web/scrm' are not intended for this ship, well - weirda was thinking more along lines of 2xsensor booster + tracking computer + tank. honestly... maelstorm need 7 mids. it just blatantly does. those that try to fit it out for 'solo work' even with 7 slots will have huge problems (mass) and/or lack of tracking/target range (arty) if they don't fit as above. hopefully tux (and hammer and others - know that you are all working hard) can see the logic in this. point being, those that fit out an auto boat with mwd/web/scram are already going to be penalized hugely by mass and agility - so the fact that they have 7 slot doesn't help them much. otherwise, can't wait to play with these babies on TQ (sisi too of course)... bring it! __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now
Locke Ateid Minmatar Outrider Fleet Command	Posted - 2006.08.03 02:10:00 - [119] To all the people who've been talking about no mention of Amarr, do you really want them too? We Min been getting plenty of attention and it's been terribly news. Then again, bad news is still better than no news. Anyway, looks like it's game over for Min.
Borothis Quishir V I R I I Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.08.03 02:17:00 - [120] Yea im not really seeing a roll for the mealstrom. 4 slots for a tank is pathetic most ppl use 5-7. shield booster and shield boost amp thats 2 inv field and a photon hardener thats your 4 slots youll be week in thermal unless the ship itself gets a boost to thermal res on shield more then the average 35% for minmatar. so that leaves you with maybe one extra mid slot if theres more on it (who knows). Sensor booster maybe? So its either a poor tank ship or itll be a poor long range ship as the tempest will outdamage it with its ship bonus. Only thing I can think might be a decent setup is 8 1200 and a mid range ship might be worth it im not really sure. ill have to wait and see when they come out on the test server.

Ghoest	Posted - 2006.08.03 02:18:00 - [121] Is there a rule that if any new Minmatar ship actually looks useful, then its not allowed? Wherever you went - here you are.
Faith Black Minmatar Rolls Roids	Posted - 2006.08.03 02:44:00 - [122] Edited by: Faith Black on 03/08/2006 02:46:47 Don't see the difference between Maelstrom and Tempest. Both are basically artillery plattforms after the patch, both can't fit anything else useful with a shield-tank. Autopest will be inferior to other close-range ships, Autocannon-Maelstroem won't work, Typhoon imho lacks some grid to make it a killer even with max-skills. I'd have prefered a new minmatar battleship that would be strong in 1-on-1 against other battleships with the right fitting. ( Because I don't want to skill gallente just to have a good ship for solo work.) But we seem to get a second tempest that deals 5% more damage or so with its 8 turret slots compared to the 6 of the tempest, but except that there is no real difference in a typical fleet battles. And then it also lacks versatility, because it seems just to be a heavy slow platform to mount 8x 1400mm howitzers on it and shoot from sniper-range.
Infinity Ziona ISK LLC	Posted - 2006.08.03 03:07:00 - [123] I think a lot of people forgot that these ships are not meant to be 'Better' then the current BS's in the game. 'The alliance should not be a solo contentmobile' - Albert Einstein
Faith Black Minmatar Rolls Roids	Posted - 2006.08.03 03:12:00 - [124] Edited by: Faith Black on 03/08/2006 03:12:38 Originally by: Infinity Ziona I think a lot of people forgot that these ships are not meant to be 'Better' then the current BS's in the game. Actually some are and let others appear even worse. Actually the tempest already gets the beating from gallente close-range and the new tier-3 gallente ship will be even better. The new caldari sniper tier-3 BS will be much better at sniping than any other current sniper BS.
Apertotes Nuevos Horizontes	Posted - 2006.08.03 03:44:00 - [125] Originally by: Princess Morenta Originally by: Apertotes Quote: Maelstrom med slots, the argument I've seen so far is that it needs at least 3 slots for speed mod, webbie and a scrambler, anything less than 4 slots is too little to tank with. I recognize that logic but we intend the Maelstrom to be a shield tanking artillery boat, relying on other ships to tackle for you. Then again shield boost bonus isn't really terribly effective in fleets where you have potentially a lot of ships firing at you and damage output exceeds your tank's absorption by a wide margin. That's basically the reasoning for changing the Moa's shield boost bonus to resistance bonus originally. ok, then i guess the rokh isnt supposed to tackle for herself either, since it is a large railgun boat, with optimal bonus, and should be firing far above scrambler range. so it will get 6 mid slots too, right? Blaster *****anyone? rokh is supposed to fit blasters as much as maelstrom autocannons Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve
Dao 2 The Scope	Posted - 2006.08.03 03:57:00 - [126] on the maelstrom, even if u don't want it to be able to solo tackle for small engagements it needs a tank, and sensor boosters and/or tracking mods ;p especially if its to keep up with the caldari railer ;p ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that Also the gal
Dr Vitoc Amarr True Core	Posted - 2006.08.03 04:18:00 - [127] Quote: Tuxford in his original Tier 3 Devblog Quote: The name Tier 3 is mostly just a name that we use to reference these four new battleships. It doesn't mean that they are like tier 2 battleships only better. In fact tier 1 and tier 2 battleships should do something better than the tier 3. Quote: It (The Abaddon) has the option of more damage than an Armageddon or a better tank than an Apocalypse. My question is simple, what does the Apocalypse and/or the Armageddon do better than the proposed Abaddon? There has been no mention of this from Tuxford or any Dev. From an Amarr specizialised pilotÆs perspective lets look at our options: 1: IÆm looking for a battleship to fly with a damage dealing set up, the aptly named ægankÆ ship. Before the introduction of the Abaddon I would choose an Armageddon, with the introduction of the Abaddon I would choose an Abaddon and fit it for dealing damage. As stated by Tuxford the Abaddon has the option of more damage than the Armageddon. or 2: IÆm looking for a battleship to fly with good defences, the aptly named ætankÆ ship. Before the introduction of the Abaddon I would choose an Apocalypse, with the introduction of the Abaddon I would choose an Abaddon and fit it for resisting damage. As stated by Tuxford the Abaddon has the option of tanking better than an Apocalypse. Now, given I need only have an Abaddon to gank or tank (depending on how I set up my ship) what will the tier 1 and tier 2 Amarr battleships do better than the Abaddon? Perhaps you will say that the Apocalypse is an excellent mining ship with 8 mining lasers fitted. ThatÆs the thing that the Apocalypse will do better. However the Abaddon also fits 8 mining lasers, and with itÆs ship bonus to resists can devote more slots to capacitor recharge and/or cargo hold than the Apocalypse. Perhaps you will say that both the Armageddon and the Apocalypse will be cheaper than the Abaddon. This is true, as it is for all other races, and yet as a tech 1 ship the Abaddon will be fully insurable and if destroyed you will most likely loose only the uninsured fittings as you do with all other tech 1 ships. Perhaps there is something that IÆm missing, that I have overlooked, or that I have forgotten. If there is I, and many others, would love to hear the answer to this question.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2006.08.03 04:21:00 - [128] About the abaddon, 2 things which simply make no sense: - tux stated that the devs want to make combat longer. Why do we then get a BS which in dps mode HAS to make combat as short as possible because it cannot sustain it's dps? - tux stated that the tier 3 are not supposed to make the older BSs obsolete. Why do we then get a BS which depending on outfit will either be a more effective geddon or more effective apoc? (Note, that, while the hyperion and maelstrom are assuming roles of the mega/pest. But only part of them - the mega will still be a better rail plattform and the tempest a better AC ship. And in both cases it won't touch the domi or phoon.)
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.03 04:57:00 - [129] A lot of people are commenting on the balance of these ships already and I'm sure they know more than me and have played more than me so I won't comment on that. What I will comment on: Amarr and Min always seem intensley unhappy with their ships. Their ships being "balanced" doesn't make them "fun". The Caldari seem to be having fun. The Gallente seem to be having fun (even if their drone bs is a big turd). So perhaps the lions share of the work should be put into fixing the problem where the other 2 races are having no fun at all.
Kaela Arana Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 05:50:00 - [130] To the Ammar pilots: RoF bonus is crap without a large cap or cap bonus eh? Why not use a cap recharger? As for the Hyperion, if its supposed to be a fast blaster boat, possible useful bonuses are: x% reduction in cap use of AB and MWD per level 5% reduction in capacitor penalty for fitting MWD per level, a la the Thorax x% increase in max velocity per level x% increase in max velocity when using AB or MWD per level x% increased RoF/damage/tracking for _blasters_ per level (pick 2) x% improvement in scan resolution per level pick out of the list above, and keep in mind that as a blaster boat, it should only have about 40km lock range. -- Working to feed the kids.

Kldraina	Posted - 2006.08.03 06:08:00 - [131] I've seen people complain that the Abaddon will make the Apoc and Armageddon obsolete. I've also seen complaints that the Abaddon will be unable to tank if it uses lasers. Perhaps what the Apoc and Arma will be good for, is using both Lasers and Tank, instead of just one or the other.
Gorgons Caldari Phantom Squad	Posted - 2006.08.03 06:55:00 - [132] Originally by: murder one Am I the only one considering these "assault rockets"? The new Drake Caldari BC w/ a full set of assault launchers inside 15km is just going to crush a Brutix with it's increased DPS, no tracking requirements, and variable damage types. And ofcourse you already know the rof of these launchers, and you for sure already know the bonuses of the caldari tier 2 BC. what about you cutting down on the whine before we have some real facts from tux. ---------------------------------- It says Snippy. E-mail us with any questions. -ReverendM OMG! what does it say...
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.03 07:05:00 - [133] Why not use a cap recharger? - The already used cap booster injector is nearly as good as three unpenalised rechargers [...] cap use of AB and MWD per level - Good Nav skills reduce the cap/sec quite good already [...] capacitor penalty for fitting MWD per level, a la the Thorax - that is the current bonus [...] max velocity per level - Removed from most Minmatar ships last year for unknown reasons [...] max velocity when using AB or MWD per level - That would be the alternate bonus [...] RoF/damage/tracking for _blasters_ per level (pick 2) [...] scan resolution per level - Very hard to balance [...] about 40km lock range. - More like 30-35km or it will be a pretty good mid-longrange ship --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Serj Darek Minmatar Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.03 08:14:00 - [134] 4 mid slots... so its going to have 8 low then? 4 mids 4tl! Where are you going to put sensorbooster and tracking comps? Or fill the lows with tracking enhansers and sensor whatever theyre called? Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them.
Lucre STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.03 09:14:00 - [135] I must confess I don't see how you can begin to attempt to balance the BS designs (or call the existing designs balanced) whilst fundamental problems like the laser imbalance caused by passive tanking changes boosting usual EM resistance remain unfixed. And the sad fact remains that the Amarr BS remain too similar. Geddon is the best of the bunch; Apoc really needs a better bonus than extra cap - resistance would be good; then Abaddon needs to be something different, and I think my sympathies are with the "make it a drone boat" argument, with a Domi-type drone bonus instead of resists (especially if the Apoc could have a resist bonus). The Domi works - why wouldn't other races try and make something similar?
MysticNZ GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.03 09:42:00 - [136] What do you have agaisn't mitari, seriously :( -=====-
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.03 09:58:00 - [137] 15km base range for aussault missles? Thats the nearly the same optimal as a 650mm Howitzer -.- Seriusly, Raven is already too strong with its 80km torps, and now you make the same mistake with cruisers again... with ship boni and so on 20-30 km optimal ranges with nearly blaster damage, thats what we need for balancing... From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:00:00 - [138] To sum it up... I have been reading all these 5 pages carefully. So far there has been NOTHING negative said about the Rohk or the Hyperion from what I can see. Basicly you have 5 pages of minmatar/amarr players being very unhappy about their tier 3 battleship. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:29:00 - [139] Originally by: Kaela Arana RoF bonus is crap without a large cap or cap bonus eh? Why not use a cap recharger? A cap recharger is already a standard outfit for many arma/apoc outfits. And in either case it's not even remotely suffecient to counter the massive capneed an aba will have in dps mode. Originally by: Kldraina Perhaps what the Apoc and Arma will be good for, is using both Lasers and Tank, instead of just one or the other. An apoc in tankmode is not using lasers, it's using projectiles.
Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:30:00 - [140] Actually it seems that if something is not done soon it will be to late..... I mean more and more people train caldari just because the usability in many situations is so much better. But when more train them, more fly them - and then the chance of CCP actually doing something about it gets even slimmer. Minmatar needs a boost atm, with low DPS, crappy tanking and not even faster ships in the classes where speed matters (ceptors). It seems like nothing is going to change.. They wont have the fastest BS now the hyperion is comming, so I would say the speed advantage is effectively gone. With that in mind, I see the mealstrom as trully an abysmal effort atm. Though I must admit, I do have hope that all our arguments and suggestions wont go unheard. Things to consider artillery, have the shortest optimal. Falloff might be good, but no module can boost it - so a high optimal, which can be improved upon, is much better. If mealstrom is a sniper then its short range compared to especially the upcomming rohk is not good. Just an odd thought here, dunno at all if its viable. How about 7.5% ROF and 7.5% tracking ? Would mean one could use tracking in enhancers in low to boost optimal and mid slots to tank/sensor boost. And give it a repsectable DPS

Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:32:00 - [141] Quote: Maelstrom med slots, the argument I've seen so far is that it needs at least 3 slots for speed mod, webbie and a scrambler, anything less than 4 slots is too little to tank with. I recognize that logic but we intend the Maelstrom to be a shield tanking artillery boat, relying on other ships to tackle for you. Then again shield boost bonus isn't really terribly effective in fleets where you have potentially a lot of ships firing at you and damage output exceeds your tank's absorption by a wide margin. That's basically the reasoning for changing the Moa's shield boost bonus to resistance bonus originally. So..... did you change it then? Because that tells me nothing and I really hope to see a good Minmatar ship before I die. You say it is made for fleets where people will tackle, and you say the bonus is no good for fleets, and you say thats why a Moa got a change to its bonus. Who cares about the Moa though, we are talking about the Maelstrom here. Million Dollar Question Does this mean you will keep it as it is, effectively useless in any role, or have you changed it? ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3
gfldex	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:37:00 - [142] Originally by: Jim McGregor I have been reading all these 5 pages carefully. [...] Basicly you have 5 pages of minmatar/amarr players being very unhappy about their tier 3 battleship. I have to correct you here. We see whining about ships that are not even on the test server. Looks like the eve community invented anticipatory whining. -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill\|lost my ship\|gank\|gate camp\|Verone/;'
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:51:00 - [143] Originally by: gfldex Originally by: Jim McGregor I have been reading all these 5 pages carefully. [...] Basicly you have 5 pages of minmatar/amarr players being very unhappy about their tier 3 battleship. I have to correct you here. We see whining about ships that are not even on the test server. Looks like the eve community invented anticipatory whining. I dont think the two blogs about tier 3 ships was meant to be ignored, do you? And its appearent that Tux is reading the forum and the feedback he gets from them, even though he has missed the point of the Maelstrom complaints completely. Its scary to me that the ships are currently not even on the test server, and stats are still being mixed around, just 1 month before Kali is supposed to be released. Ok, 2 months if they are using september too, which I think they will have to. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:52:00 - [144] Originally by: gfldex I have to correct you here. We see whining about ships that are not even on the test server. Looks like the eve community invented anticipatory whining. Well if the Lead Ship Balancer () tells me (Beta 6 Player Amarr only) that i will get a 8/4/8 rof/resists bonus Ship, its time to start whining, isnt it. It looks good on paper, but 1) Geddon gets obsolete 2) Apoc gets obsolete 3) Lasers get even more obsolete 4) I finally have to train Projectiles (just sick) 5) Chances to get it changed later are 1% 6) Chances my Account ends on E*** for 10$ are not that low Yes Amarr spec char is worth 10$ i think
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:15:00 - [145] Originally by: gfldex Originally by: Jim McGregor I have been reading all these 5 pages carefully. [...] Basicly you have 5 pages of minmatar/amarr players being very unhappy about their tier 3 battleship. I have to correct you here. We see whining about ships that are not even on the test server. Looks like the eve community invented anticipatory whining. Yep, shame i didnt whine when khanid ships were introduced. Maybe they would be useful now... As for T2 ammo...
gfldex	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:01:00 - [146] Originally by: Jim McGregor I dont think the two blogs about tier 3 ships was meant to be ignored, do you? And its appearent that Tux is reading the forum and the feedback he gets from them, even though he has missed the point of the Maelstrom complaints completely. Its scary to me that the ships are currently not even on the test server, and stats are still being mixed around, just 1 month before Kali is supposed to be released. Ok, 2 months if they are using september too, which I think they will have to. It is in fact a step in the right direction to discuss ships and changes befor they hit TQ. Not only that but it's quite nice to let us share the joy of dreaming from new toys for our beloved game. But nonetheless the inherent problem of games (not only eve) of still thinking in a way of pencil and paper while rolling dices. The technology how games are created has changed dramaticly but game designers still stick to simple design technics. We don't need simple techniques like levels and randomness (rolling dices is still fun though :) because we have mighy tools (the one in front of you) to get the game mechanics done smarter. Look at the differences between frigs and CRU. In contrast to any other game out there we have to rule: Bigger Ain't Better. But when it cames to ships of the same class of the same race we still have levels. And I can't see why. Look at the Maller and the Omen. The Omen got some love because nobody was using it. But it doesn't got changed in a way that ppl gave a good reason to use it. Tux told us that he can't do it because it't _only_ rank 2. This is an artifical limit he sets to himself for no reason. At the same time the Abaddon can't made be better then the other the existing BS becaue the rank doesn't mean much. I made some test with Apoc fittings today. Mostly to find out how tec 2 items effect cap usage. I switched my beloved tec 2 hardeners for nice named and guess what? I was able to strip a cap recharger and capa was still stable. Amarr pilots fit loads of tec 2 gear and wonder where their capa went to. As a result the Abaddon can only suck -- with a tec 2 fitting. If the Abaddon would get good capa nobody would use the Apoc and the Geddon anymore. The underlieing problem that the player base grow up into tec 2 lovers but the ships are still unchanged is still there and TBH I dont have the slightest idea how to solve this. But the concept that tec 1 ships should have problems to fit and run tec 2 items will not make it any better. Another artifical (or self made) limitation are slot layouts. That's what the minmatar is hitting in the face this time. A fleet sniper dont want to shield tank because there is no point to have a good tank when you can't hit the enemy because he's out of your lock or guns range. We will see loads of Rohks on the battlefield because it will make players competitive witch can't use tec 2 guns. The slotlayout together with the usefull bonus will create a massive inballance in favor for caldari. Whatever Tux will do the Mealstrom will suck compared to the other snipers. And here we come to limitation No. 3. Tux and the other responsible devs are doomed to create content for 4 races witch has to be different but not that much different that ppl have to skill all 4 races. (What is not possible anymore since we live in the worlds of lvl5 skills.) Any race has a special part what they are good at but only caldari can profit from that fact because they are sniper tanker with high damage potential. And that is what the basis of PVP in eve is about. Anything else may be usefull in some borderline situations but in the end of the day it doesent matter when group sizes are above 30. And we live in a blob world and that will not change anymore. Whatever Tux will do with the new tier 3 ships will not solve the underlieing problems. EVE has evolved over time but it's basic concepts are nearly unchanged. That can only lead to frustration. Have fun Tux. :) -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill\|lost my ship\|gank\|gate camp\|Verone/;'
Garia666 Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.03 12:28:00 - [147] Edited by: Garia666 on 03/08/2006 12:28:52 They should pick random players and ask them to become a community test panel and to test and comment on new ship types. Now its all to the dev`s to decide which gives me teh shiffers already.. still waiting to commonet on the abandon untill i am able to fly one. And i wonder how many devs are actualy Amarr in game anyway..
Herr Streng	Posted - 2006.08.03 13:15:00 - [148] Originally by: Garia666 They should pick random players and ask them to become a community test panel and to test and comment on new ship types. There already is such a panel. It's called ISD.
Sean Drake Caldari Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.03 13:44:00 - [149] I think Amarr should get exactly what they want after all this embarrassing ****ing and moaning. Laser should get exp dmg added to lasers so that while laser crystals do the same dmg a portion of it is exp. BUT then at least half the dmg bonus on all laser turrets since that is what is currently used to offset the limited dmg types at the moment. Oh and I think your missing Tux's point about the tier 1 and 2 ships doing somthing better than the tier3. one can gank and have a little tank the other can tank with a little gank the abbadon can tank or gank. Please change your signature to match the 400x120 pixel rule. - Ivan K
Ather Ialeas Viziam	Posted - 2006.08.03 13:50:00 - [150] Originally by: Sean Drake Oh and I think your missing Tux's point about the tier 1 and 2 ships doing somthing better than the tier3. one can gank and have a little tank the other can tank with a little gank the abbadon can tank or gank. With Abaddon you can also tank heavily and fit a full rack of T2 1400mm projectiles, at least if any of the released stats are accurate at all. (and tbh even if those stats were 20% too high you could still tank+projectile "gank"). ________________________________________________ Originally by: Nidhoggur How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 13:57:00 - [151] Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Sean Drake Oh and I think your missing Tux's point about the tier 1 and 2 ships doing somthing better than the tier3. one can gank and have a little tank the other can tank with a little gank the abbadon can tank or gank. With Abaddon you can also tank heavily and fit a full rack of T2 1400mm projectiles, at least if any of the released stats are accurate at all. (and tbh even if those stats were 20% too high you could still tank+projectile "gank"). People will probably end up prefering the Abaddon with projectiles to Maelstrom... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.03 14:00:00 - [152] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Sean Drake Oh and I think your missing Tux's point about the tier 1 and 2 ships doing somthing better than the tier3. one can gank and have a little tank the other can tank with a little gank the abbadon can tank or gank. With Abaddon you can also tank heavily and fit a full rack of T2 1400mm projectiles, at least if any of the released stats are accurate at all. (and tbh even if those stats were 20% too high you could still tank+projectile "gank"). People will probably end up prefering the Abaddon with projectiles to Maelstrom... For fleets that sure, Mealstrom has nothing to offer to make artilleris a good thing on them From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Kedor Minmatar Universal Army Curse Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.03 14:09:00 - [153] I am conserned for the lack of versetality. Most of the new battleships dont bring enough to the mix. You can already snipe good in a Tempest, why add a ship that only do it slightly better? Six 1400s with RoF and dmg bonus vs Eight 1400s with RoF bonus is to small a difference. Abaddon gets the tank or the gank. So instead of fielding a Geddon or an Apoc you just have to have two different Abaddon outfits. No need for Geddons or Apocs then. Hyperion dont seem to excel that much in blasters than what a Mega can do already. Nothing jaw dropping here. While new ships is always a fun thing, they should bring something special to the battle field. Five percent more effectiveness in speciffic situations isnt what I deam reasonable. Look at the three Caldari battle ships, thats what I call versetality and uniqness. Give other races some to. Pretty please...
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2006.08.03 14:34:00 - [154] Originally by: gfldex I made some test with Apoc fittings today. Mostly to find out how tec 2 items effect cap usage. I switched my beloved tec 2 hardeners for nice named and guess what? I was able to strip a cap recharger and capa was still stable. Amarr pilots fit loads of tec 2 gear and wonder where their capa went to. As a result the Abaddon can only suck -- with a tec 2 fitting. If the Abaddon would get good capa nobody would use the Apoc and the Geddon anymore. Sorry, but that argument is just silly. Firstly, for PvE the additional resiatances from the t2 harderners will benefit you more than being able to fit one less cap recharger. What would you fit there else anyway? Secondly, for PvP, if you are still using active harderners there I would kindly point you toward a 2 EAN2 + 1 DC setup, which uses basically no cap, less cpu than a 3 active harderner setup and gives you a bigger effective hitpoint increase. So, where else to "save" cap? T2 armor reps are more capeffective than t1 ones, so those fall out of the window. Oh, we could use t1 guns and t1 ammo and do less dps and still use more cap than a geddon with t2 guns and t2 ammo.
Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.03 15:33:00 - [155] Well give the mealstrom a 7.5% or even 10% tracking bonus. would be much more usefull than the shield bonus. I must admit, the asaults missil scare me from a balance point of view - I hope they wont be the end of cruiser combat balance. Regarding the battlecruisers - F*** yeah to a fast evil looking autocannon minmatar boat, with 8/4/6 and a ROF + DMG bonus. give it enough powergrid to fit 7 720s IF you use an RCUII or two. Then it can be both a fragile sniper and fearsome tanked autocannon boat.
Nybbas A Place for Valen	Posted - 2006.08.03 15:48:00 - [156] I want to know how on earth they think close range medium missiles and 15km range go together at all... 15km... close range??? right.
Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.03 15:54:00 - [157] Originally by: Nybbas I want to know how on earth they think close range medium missiles and 15km range go together at all... 15km... close range??? right. maybe thats the new torpedo range... that would be balanced :) (add skills and its not bad at all)
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.03 15:59:00 - [158] Originally by: Nybbas I want to know how on earth they think close range medium missiles and 15km range go together at all... 15km... close range??? right. Light missiles have a base range of roughly 18km without skills, modules and ship bonus. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Azerrad	Posted - 2006.08.03 17:08:00 - [159] Originally by: Jim McGregor People will probably end up prefering the Abaddon with projectiles to Maelstrom... I do my best to avoid any combat at ranges greater than 50km, but if I was doing the 0.0 fleet hell, I would much rather be flying an Abaddon with 1400mm and plates than a Maelstrom with 1400mm. RoF bonus doens't mean that much in fleets (helps sure, but not that much).
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2006.08.03 17:30:00 - [160] Originally by: Azerrad I do my best to avoid any combat at ranges greater than 50km, but if I was doing the 0.0 fleet hell, I would much rather be flying an Abaddon with 1400mm and plates than a Maelstrom with 1400mm. RoF bonus doens't mean that much in fleets (helps sure, but not that much). The irony is that if the other side is using EAN2 + plate tanks it will do probably more dps with 1400mms than with tachyons.

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.03 17:37:00 - [161] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/08/2006 17:39:14 Originally by: Azerrad Originally by: Jim McGregor People will probably end up prefering the Abaddon with projectiles to Maelstrom... I do my best to avoid any combat at ranges greater than 50km, but if I was doing the 0.0 fleet hell, I would much rather be flying an Abaddon with 1400mm and plates than a Maelstrom with 1400mm. RoF bonus doens't mean that much in fleets (helps sure, but not that much). Check this chart out. The massive difference between the top Amarr ships is purely because Abaddon can use Tachyons. Both the Armageddon and the Abaddon has a rof bonus, but Abaddon will probably be able to fit 8 tachs and have rof bonus on top. The dps is pretty scary. Of course their cap will get sucked up in 30 seconds without a cap injector. =) I know the chart doesnt show Abaddon with projectiles, I just wanted to show you the dps you can get with this ship if you give up the tank. Basicly gank mode. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Waut 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.03 18:03:00 - [162] If the tier 2 BC will be pure gank, no tank why not making them a bit more agile? In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2006.08.03 18:17:00 - [163] Originally by: Jim McGregor The dps is pretty scary. Base dps. After an EAN2 tank there's not much left. Ironically the BS with the most dps against 3 EAN2 tanked armor will be the mealstrom. Then the hyperion. Then a tachyon aba. Then the mega. Of cource, the aba will do more dps vs shield and structure. But with multiple 1600mm plates Over 50% of the ships hp will be armor.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.03 20:27:00 - [164] Originally by: Aramendel 1400mm II has without any skills 5.84 exp and 4.67 kin dps with tremor L. After resistances thats a total of 4.28 dps. Tachyon II has with a 25% ROF bonus 13.8 EM dps and 6.9 therm dps with aurora L. After resistances thats a total of 5.2 dps. Ok, it has a somewhat bigger dps. Not that much, though - and a ship without a 25% ROF bonus (like an apoc) will have only 3.9 dps. the difference btw 4,28dps and 5,2dps is 21,5%, sorry thats not a little for me Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2006.08.03 21:09:00 - [165] Originally by: Tiuwaz the difference btw 4,28dps and 5,2dps is 21,5%, sorry thats not a little for me Exept you buy this boost for 85 cap/sec (8 Tachyons with max skills on the aba). And note this is for using 1400mms with amarr ships which have no boni for them. A mealstrom will have 5.7 dps vs EAN2 armor. Even a tempest with 6 guns will have more than the aba with 5.35 dps (and the aba has an effective dual damage bonus, too, with the +rof and the higher raw base damage from lasers).
Derran Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.03 22:04:00 - [166] Originally by: Cosmo Raata I'm fairly sure Caldari is pretty happy having the best sniper ship in game, most threads talk about how to fit them, not how they want them changed. I'm not really thrilled even though I had specialized in Caldari. Except I don't really fly them anymore. I've more or less given up on them and have come full circle back to Gallente ships. Yes, I've flown Amarr ships but I hate the look of all of them so I don't fly them anymore. Although I do like lasers in that they don't require reloading and when you switch crystals, it is pretty much instanteously unlike other weapons that other ships use where you are stuck with a 10s relaod time. I started out 3 1/2 years ago focus on Gallente ships only but then branched out as they kept on making alot of changes back then that made existing ships suck and other ships better and repeating that process over time until you have a reasonable balance like you have today. 49M skillpoints later (approximately 15M+ of it wasted and unused) and I am back to Gallente ships.
Snipes123us	Posted - 2006.08.03 23:13:00 - [167] Sry if this was already mentioned but theres a lot of posts. What is the max speed that the devs are planning on giving the hyperion? Was wondering if it will turn out to be like the Vagabond which can go an insane speed with a full snake set.
Qinoly Gallente Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.08.04 01:38:00 - [168] Edited by: Qinoly on 04/08/2006 01:39:27 Balanced? nuff said
Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.04 08:28:00 - [169] Originally by: Qinoly Edited by: Qinoly on 04/08/2006 01:39:27 Balanced? nuff said Thats an old problem, think the dev resoning is something along the line of "missils are secondary weapon systems on many ships so training time should be shorter" .... either that or CCP have raven flying mission alts as half of eve it seems.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.04 08:30:00 - [170] Originally by: Weirda ships that have bonuses to their mid slots tend to have a lot of mids... hence scorpion, blackbird, recon ships... raven does NOT have a mid slot bonus (caldari or not). maelstorm does. it would not make any sense at ALL for it to have less mids then raven, and ONLY make sense for it to have more. This is actually quite a common game design trick. Mid slots can be used for many purposes. If you want to make a ship good in one of those purposes, you have two options, more slots, or a bonus. Giving it more slots lets it be better at any of the purposes, as the pilot can choose whatever module to fit there. Give it a bonus to make those mid slots more effective at a specific thing, and you succeed in making it good in that thing without letting it be good in the other mid-slot uses. At level 4, the shield boost amount bonus would be the equivalent of fitting a shield boost amp. Which means you effectively have one more "slot" in your shield tank, even though you don't have the actual slot on the ship. BTW, to everyone using the currently available data extract on the new ships to work fittings and moan etc, I will reiterate a very important part of the blog: Originally by: tux blog Some of you have gotten hold of some preliminary stats on the ships; those are severely outdated and have already changed. Which means that working up setups, and moaning about those stats is completely pointless. Those stats were not publically released by Tux, they were ripped from a version of the database on which the ships were still in testing and never intended to be used. So of course there are going to be things wrong in those stats. But I suppose it's too much to ask that people wait for the stats to be in a state where tux is willing to release them, rather than critise the painting based on the outline sketch. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.04 08:45:00 - [171] Im wondering how things will turn out. Will they just put the ships on the test server when they are happy with them? Because currently they seem to be testing them on the development server for themselfs. I feel time is running out for players to have their input on the final stats as we are approaching september fast. But I guess in the end, Tuxford and his team decides if they want our input or not. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.04 08:48:00 - [172] The problem is that we have seen to many times that "preliminary" or "placeholder" stats hits so close to the actual design that its not funny. Especially minmatar pilots sees this as yet another time that they draw the shortest straw. I mean, when Tuxford himself says: "Then again shield boost bonus isn't really terribly effective in fleets where you have potentially a lot of ships firing at you and damage output exceeds your tank's absorption by a wide margin. That's basically the reasoning for changing the Moa's shield boost bonus to resistance bonus originally." Now with that in mind look at the BC's which race got the "lesser" bonus? Is it so hard to understand that with that comment, and many other well arguemented posts here I might add, that we are trying to voice our critique now? Now Minmatar have: the lowest DPS less slots to tank mixed weaponsystems. long range weapons with abysmal tracking and lowest optimal As good things Mixed damage types: Tech2 ammo isn't varied at all, and most people dont have 4+ ammo types to pick and chose from. Higher speed: our BS's will loose that to the new gallente ship, just as our ceptors loose to caldari Good falloff (sadly this cannot be boosted as optimal range can so I would say on long range weapons at least that optimal is better since you can boost it with modules) High alpha strike (which is wicked and very very good) Now go through all of that, and tell me if you can understand why some people who have sticked with minmatar feel a bit cheated. Especially if you have large artillery/autocannon spec (which takes much longer to get than torp/cruise spec). All in all, it seems minmatar is the last of the 4 when they make ships Sarcasm below this line: CCP: lets see whats left to do, oh yes the minmatar how could I forget, what should we give them for a 2nd bonus... hmm thats tough, I know, how about that bonus we discarded for caldari - lets give them that.
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.08.04 09:30:00 - [173] Originally by: Darius Shakor Quote: Maelstrom med slots, the argument I've seen so far is that it needs at least 3 slots for speed mod, webbie and a scrambler, anything less than 4 slots is too little to tank with. I recognize that logic but we intend the Maelstrom to be a shield tanking artillery boat, relying on other ships to tackle for you. Then again shield boost bonus isn't really terribly effective in fleets where you have potentially a lot of ships firing at you and damage output exceeds your tank's absorption by a wide margin. That's basically the reasoning for changing the Moa's shield boost bonus to resistance bonus originally. So..... did you change it then? Because that tells me nothing and I really hope to see a good Minmatar ship before I die. You say it is made for fleets where people will tackle, and you say the bonus is no good for fleets, and you say thats why a Moa got a change to its bonus. Who cares about the Moa though, we are talking about the Maelstrom here. Million Dollar Question Does this mean you will keep it as it is, effectively useless in any role, or have you changed it? Resposting in the hopes that Tux will provide an answer. Is it getting changed then or are you saying we have to like it or lump it? ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.04 10:36:00 - [174] Originally by: Jim McGregor Im wondering how things will turn out. Will they just put the ships on the test server when they are happy with them? Because currently they seem to be testing them on the development server for themselfs. Well, keeping it to the dev server means that tux can get away with hacking up ship variants with whatever stats he likes to compare, which gives a lot more flexibility until the values are fairly nailed down. Putting them out to Sisi is much less flexible. Originally by: Jim McGregor I feel time is running out for players to have their input on the final stats as we are approaching september fast. But I guess in the end, Tuxford and his team decides if they want our input or not. The Dragon patch isn't even in a releasable state yet, and proper testing on Kali1 can't begin until the dragon patch is out. I wouldn't expect Dragon to get to TQ until the start of sept, pushing Kali1 back to at least october. I'd say we have a couple more months until these ships see light on TQ. And the nice thing about ship stats is that they're one of the easier things to change, so they don't need to get locked down until very late in the day. Originally by: Mr Bright The problem is that we have seen to many times that "preliminary" or "placeholder" stats hits so close to the actual design that its not funny. And we've also seen many that were hilariously far off. There had been stats for "titans" in the database since Castor (possibly before, I wasn't there to know), but what actually came out as titans bore very little resemblance to that. Besides, the "placeholder" stats that have generally been fairly accurate have been gleaned from a Sisi database running a fairly close to release version. Currently Sisi isn't even running the same code branch that these ships are going to be released in, let alone a near-release version of it. Oh, and Tux knows what stats we have access too. He knows what his current design stats are. So when he says that the stats we can see are both old and different to the ones he's currently working with, I'm inclined to believe him. Filling the boards with thousands of complaints based on stats which we know are outdated and different to the current design won't help anything. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.04 11:00:00 - [175] The Chinese server is already running on Dragon Code. Tux is on holiday iirc. There wasn't much input the devs took from the player base when it came to designing or adjusting Minmatar ships in the past. Ships that made it to Tranquility normally are changed when the next batch of balancing work is done, with the Minmatar getting what didn't quite work for any of the other race's ships. (Drone cruiser? Missile frigate? Painting bonus? Missed in missile and drone nerf? Speed nerf? SP requirements for okay ship efficiency? Fast ships with horrible weapon system tracking? Missing storylines? Missing missions? Missing explanations for fubar standing changes? Broken offers? ...) Stats and bugs from SiSi normally make it unchanged to Tranquility unless they're good for killing the market or the server. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
arbitrary Bad luck Clover Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.04 11:19:00 - [176] The maelstrom is pure meh' for me; too bad they are screwing over the tempest as well oh well lets hope for a miracle and that balance will be found on SiSi. Though it will be safer for me to consider where my loyalties lie when it comes to ships. ___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile.
Druid R Murder of Crows	Posted - 2006.08.04 13:45:00 - [177] you will need 7 mids on a mael even if it isnt for speed etc cause u will need sensor boosters if it is to be used as fleet arty alpha ship as they seem to think. plus 4 for a tank is a bit shy. booster amp 3x hardnertype modules injector Dru. Welcome to the hijacked sig club. YARRR!!!11!one -Kaemonn I wanters, aren't getters. ohh. Oops. -Capsicum
Wan Nathiil	Posted - 2006.08.04 13:48:00 - [178] Originally by: Infinity Ziona I think a lot of people forgot that these ships are not meant to be 'Better' then the current BS's in the game. Why shouldn't the new ships be better than the old ones?? Then what's the point of making something new? if you think progression, then new ships SHOULD be better, that's the whole idea of making something new, it's called progression. We'd still be traveling in steam locomotives if it werent for progress, and making things better..
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:29:00 - [179] Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 04/08/2006 14:28:53 Originally by: Wan Nathiil We'd still be traveling in steam locomotives if it werent for progress, and making things better.. so..how many steam locomotives are still in use compared to modern trains?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:37:00 - [180] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 04/08/2006 14:41:12 Originally by: Wan Nathiil Originally by: Infinity Ziona I think a lot of people forgot that these ships are not meant to be 'Better' then the current BS's in the game. Why shouldn't the new ships be better than the old ones?? Then what's the point of making something new? if you think progression, then new ships SHOULD be better, that's the whole idea of making something new, it's called progression. We'd still be traveling in steam locomotives if it werent for progress, and making things better.. Actually you are confusing tech 1/2 with tier 1/2/3 here. New tech = better, new tier = different role. The devs are trying to not replace older ships so they are useless, and its working pretty good so far. For example: Vexor and Thorax. Both are really good and Thorax doesnt replace the Vexor. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:22:00 - [181] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 04/08/2006 14:41:12 Originally by: Wan Nathiil Originally by: Infinity Ziona I think a lot of people forgot that these ships are not meant to be 'Better' then the current BS's in the game. Why shouldn't the new ships be better than the old ones?? Then what's the point of making something new? if you think progression, then new ships SHOULD be better, that's the whole idea of making something new, it's called progression. We'd still be traveling in steam locomotives if it werent for progress, and making things better.. Actually you are confusing tech 1/2 with tier 1/2/3 here. New tech = better, new tier = different role. The devs are trying to not replace older ships so they are useless, and its working pretty good so far. For example: Vexor and Thorax. Both are really good and Thorax doesnt replace the Vexor. Problem is that only caldari got something "different" that didn't replace any of their current ships. Abbadon can shot harder than an armageddon or tank ahrder than an apoc - not at the same time, but each ships is replaced in its field. We have gallente, getting a faster, harder hitting blasterBS - thereby replacing the blasterthron. Minmatar get a new artillery boat, that doesn't have anything to offer that the tempest cant do atm. Some things it will do better some a bit worse. So only one out of 4 ships doesn't replace a current BS from their respective race. If they wanted to "patch" holes in each races lineup, they could have done so by changing a bit on a few tier1/2 and add the tier 3 F.example Gallente: Domi: hybrid bonus changed to sensor dampner Mega as long range boat Hyperion as blaster boat Granted that would be hard to sell RP-wise. But, it would be better overall.
Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:32:00 - [182] Signed -- Redo the Abaddon, Maelstrom & Hyperion, we need them to be different, & not replace our existing ships. I have no idea why i'd ever fly a geddy again if I had the Abaddon, seriously. Stupidiest thing ever to do is have us get new ships that make the only ones obselete. I'm one that things that Amarr should get a drone/ew/domi esque type of bs. I'm sure you can ask the Minnie & Gallente pilots what they really want, I dont need to come up with it for them.
Jet Collins	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:57:00 - [183] Just reading the last few pages and people have some good points. I would personaly like to add as a minamtar times have changed severly for use over the last few years. When I started playing Eve I knew minmatar as a race that had Fast crappy ships ie no tank. As for weapons we had the Apha strick with a verioty of other weapons ie auto's and missles. So when I started playing the frist thing I trained was speed. My though is if I want to survive as a minmatar pilot I'm going to have to go fast to avoid missles and gun fire, and of course train track so I could hit anything because we know projectiles tracking as pretty bad back than as well. As times have changed. Now I'm not sure of the order of things but here we go. Missles got change.. fast.. I can not longer out run missles. Ok so I have a crapy tank and can't out run the damage. They introduce the cyclone.. clearly should be shield tanker. So I focuse on more shield tanking now. They nerf damage mods.. and whatever else Tempest no longer has nice alpha strike. Phoon gets boost to missles, and we get Recon ships with missles bonuse. clearnly dividing what our weapons are. Now they introduce new ships, of which some are fast and have better alpha stick than minmatar ships. We get a ship than can tank and does ok dps??? Now this BS my not be so bad but come on whats happening to the racial roles... I agree things sould be balanced but I think things are getting to balance.. ie everything is the same. Ever race can do the same thing anouther can with the exception of a few things. I think things can be balanced and still have races that are totaly differenet in thier roles. Cal= best missles spamers and EW Gal= best drone boat sensor dampeners Amar= sorry I don't stay on top of what you are best at... I just don't like Ammar. At one point I though you where best DPS. I think you get this again with new BS. Minmatar=best webbers....and target painters.. woopy. heck I would be happier with a BS that had to use arties and got a webber bonuse like a recon but had a really bad tank. At least it would fit racial roles that they are applying now.. but that will probably change. Ohhh yes and for those of you who want it a missles spaming BS with a TP bonuse.
Jet Collins	Posted - 2006.08.04 16:02:00 - [184] My idea oh what the other races should get Amar BS=Nos boat I just think a drone boat would replace a Dom but give me some stats and reasons to change my mind Gall BS=Sensor dampening and rof boat Cal BS=hmmm well I think this on is actauly divers enough and can stay.
Anwyl Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.04 18:05:00 - [185] A small note to all you minnies out there... one thing that ALL races need is target painting. This is because fighting things with small sig radii is hard. This is where you guys have the advantage, you take less damage against larger weapons. Add this onto your damage diversity and "alpha strike" and that's not exactly the worst thing... Don't lose sight of your good stats!
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.04 18:44:00 - [186] Rokh seems fairly balanced, though judging by what I have seen, I would reduce the launcher bays - hence forcing a new gunship.
Infinity Ziona ISK LLC	Posted - 2006.08.04 23:04:00 - [187] Originally by: Cosmo Raata Signed -- Redo the Abaddon, Maelstrom & Hyperion, we need them to be different, & not replace our existing ships. I have no idea why i'd ever fly a geddy again if I had the Abaddon, seriously. Stupidiest thing ever to do is have us get new ships that make the only ones obselete. I'm one that things that Amarr should get a drone/ew/domi esque type of bs. I'm sure you can ask the Minnie & Gallente pilots what they really want, I dont need to come up with it for them. Lets not forget the fact that they are Tier 3 and if the same ratio of cost from T1 to T2 is used for T3 then they will be around 200 million to buy. So there will still be a reason to use t2 ships. Cost. 'The alliance should not be a solo contentmobile' - Albert Einstein
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2006.08.04 23:31:00 - [188] Without reading the intervening 7 pages of posts, my observations. Maelstrom: Great shield boost bonus, but will it have the CPU & Grid to fit a rack of 1400 T2 without filling it's few lows with CPU/RCUs? Will it have enough mids to be an effective autocannon platform otherwise? Hyperion: MWD bonuses make pretty much no sense whatsoever on any ship since you never get anything from the bonus without it... unlike a shield/weapon bonus that you get with pretty much every fitting unless you get really off into left field. Preferrably the ship should get a mass/inertia bonus per level, which would benefit it across any fitting, and be potentially a lot more effective. Rokh or whatever the Caldari one is: Be very careful, it's already simple enough to snipe at gates into lowsec. Adding a range bonus on rails, which already have very impressive range and DPS, would put one of these things on every High->low sec gate in empire. Assault Missiles Can we say, uh... WTF? Why? You've got T2 rage missiles for that role. This would just be taking the same missile, removing the rather idiotic nerfs (all T2 ammo is nerfed beyond usability, IMO. Waste of training effort), and making Rage missiles (already so seldom used that a Rage BPO is about as valuable as, say, a T2 Inertial Stabalizer BPO) utterly useless. Why don't you fix defender missiles and add T2 variants? Defender missiles made useful?
Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2006.08.05 00:26:00 - [189] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Cosmo Raata Signed -- Redo the Abaddon, Maelstrom & Hyperion, we need them to be different, & not replace our existing ships. I have no idea why i'd ever fly a geddy again if I had the Abaddon, seriously. Stupidiest thing ever to do is have us get new ships that make the only ones obselete. I'm one that things that Amarr should get a drone/ew/domi esque type of bs. I'm sure you can ask the Minnie & Gallente pilots what they really want, I dont need to come up with it for them. Lets not forget the fact that they are Tier 3 and if the same ratio of cost from T1 to T2 is used for T3 then they will be around 200 million to buy. So there will still be a reason to use t2 ships. Cost. I Disagree, I dont care how much the ship is, its the cost of uninsurable items/ships that make it something one doesn't use. These tier 3 wont use much more in mods than the others. So in response, If the Abaddon stays as it is, & I can figure out how to deal with the cap problem, Dont expect me to ever use ther other 2 ships (what were they called again?) again.
RedooM Meed Caldari Red Moon Colonisation Section	Posted - 2006.08.05 00:42:00 - [190] Ahhhh who give a damm anyway rofl. I want my flying goofball with pink ears tech 2 retrofitted. Plz add some bonus to the ears and maybe extra fitting slots for goofing around.

Anwyl Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.05 02:23:00 - [191] Edited by: Anwyl on 05/08/2006 02:23:42 Originally by: Cosmo Raata Originally by: Infinity Ziona Lets not forget the fact that they are Tier 3 and if the same ratio of cost from T1 to T2 is used for T3 then they will be around 200 million to buy. So there will still be a reason to use t2 ships. Cost. I Disagree, I dont care how much the ship is, its the cost of uninsurable items/ships that make it something one doesn't use. These tier 3 wont use much more in mods than the others. So in response, If the Abaddon stays as it is, & I can figure out how to deal with the cap problem, Dont expect me to ever use ther other 2 ships (what were they called again?) again. Tier 3 isn't Tech 3, the tier 4 cruiser is the thorax for Gallente. At least, that's my interpretation of what they said... The new ship should be on the market, and will not need research, same with the BC. That's why they're not Tech 2 quality.
arbitrary Bad luck Clover Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.05 07:40:00 - [192] Originally by: Anwyl Tier 3 isn't Tech 3,... This needs to be repeated over and over Threads like this makes me cogitate on why somone would fantasize that tier is tech, one could assume they just see it as the T before the 2, hearing tier they just asume the two are a pair, or rather tier is par tech in the T. But the released stats or bonuses for tier ships would be comical on a tech 2, not to mention tech 3; assuming tech 3 would take specialisation further, not just backtrack to tech 1. So why do people still equivalent tech with tier? my conclusion is that by large EVE is like any other MMO in that most players are too dumb in general and at large, lets just hope information is the cure. ___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile.
Brute Helmet Minmatar J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2006.08.05 08:34:00 - [193] The assault missiles sound to me like a very useful weapon system for minmatar pilots. They will complement our autocannon nicely, giving us increased punch at medium to short ranges. Every missile thats fired doesnt have to come from one of those angular excuses for ships that the caldari fly. _____________________________ Support the MGRL - uncover your six
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.05 08:44:00 - [194] Originally by: Brute Helmet The assault missiles sound to me like a very useful weapon system for minmatar pilots. They will complement our autocannon nicely, giving us increased punch at medium to short ranges. Every missile thats fired doesnt have to come from one of those angular excuses for ships that the caldari fly. Too bad that none of the minmatar cruisers have missile bonuses. :) I think its only the typhoon in the entire fleet that has bonuses, and thats to cruise/torps. But still, I guess it can be useful, but the higher powergrid requirements can possibly make it hard to fit. The best rupture setups today already require top skills to fit a 1600 mm plate, guns and nos/launchers. So.. we'll see. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Wan Nathiil	Posted - 2006.08.05 10:01:00 - [195] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 04/08/2006 14:28:53 Originally by: Wan Nathiil We'd still be traveling in steam locomotives if it werent for progress, and making things better.. so..how many steam locomotives are still in use compared to modern trains? Well the steam locomotive is a "leap" back, but the point is that new stuff has to be just a "little" better to be interresting. I wont pretend i have all the answers, but i think there is (in general) more Tempest pilots than Phoon, more Apoc than Armas etc... because (and i know people will LOVE to argue about this)TIER2 are in general just a tiny bit better than TIER1. Tier1 still has theyr use though, and will (hopefully) be around for awhile longer, because there are things they are better at still
Donmadefy	Posted - 2006.08.05 11:39:00 - [196] I wonder why they don't run an in game event ... Mentas Blaque could request the pod pilots to bring supplies to a number of different research stations, each one specialising in a bonus (ie RoF, Damage, Tracking, Speed, Cap etc). Whichever two stations get the most resources dictates what the bonuses will be. Naturally all the other races may follow suit, some agent missions can be added "Disrupt the supply line" where you go after convoys moving supplies around.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2006.08.05 12:08:00 - [197] Originally by: Wan Nathiil Well the steam locomotive is a "leap" back, but the point is that new stuff has to be just a "little" better to be interresting. I wont pretend i have all the answers, but i think there is (in general) more Tempest pilots than Phoon, more Apoc than Armas etc... because (and i know people will LOVE to argue about this)TIER2 are in general just a tiny bit better than TIER1. Tier1 still has theyr use though, and will (hopefully) be around for awhile longer, because there are things they are better at still Actually for apocs and armas it's the other way around. Also I would say the dominix is more common than the mega. Only morons and noobs are using ships based on their tier. People are usually using ships based on what they can do. An apoc is not able to deal the dps of a geddon, so usually a geddon is used if you want to do that. Similary, a geddon cannot tank as well, so if you want to do that you'll use an apoc. A typhoon is a better closerange dps boat, the tempest is a better sniper. While Tempests are also used regulary as AC boats this is mainly because the typhoon is more skillintensive and was gimped for a long time until recently. Also, tempests can mount a bit of ECM, which gives them an extra edge. Once that is nerfed you won't see them as often as shortrange boats. For all races tier 2 is not not something better, but something different. This is especialyl noticeable with the cladari and gallente BSs. If the tier 3 ships are simply bigger, better instead "something else" once the market has clamed down after the initial rush their tier1&2 ships they replace will go the way of the kodo.
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:51:00 - [198] Hyperion looks even more awful now with the mass reduction bonus. Wtf!? I will use the minmatar BS for my mission running alt, and use Rokh for PvP. I cant fly amarr BS, so I am unsure about their tier 3 BS, but atleast it looks interesting.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.05 15:17:00 - [199] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Hyperion looks even more awful now with the mass reduction bonus. Wtf!? I will use the minmatar BS for my mission running alt, and use Rokh for PvP. I cant fly amarr BS, so I am unsure about their tier 3 BS, but atleast it looks interesting. How is getting in range fast a bad thing? Besides, i doubt the Maelstrom will be a better mission runner than the Raven. Ive tried the Cyclone with artillery and its simply not worth it compared to the ferox. Maelstrom will be the same. And with that slow base speed, it will be a pain to move around with even with MWD... Raven doesnt need to move. Ever. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Brute Helmet Minmatar J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2006.08.05 15:41:00 - [200] Edited by: Brute Helmet on 05/08/2006 15:50:01 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 05/08/2006 08:44:49 Originally by: Brute Helmet The assault missiles sound to me like a very useful weapon system for minmatar pilots. They will complement our autocannon nicely, giving us increased punch at medium to short ranges. Every missile thats fired doesnt have to come from one of those angular excuses for ships that the caldari fly. Too bad that none of the minmatar cruisers have missile bonuses. :) I think its only the typhoon in the entire fleet that has bonuses, and thats to cruise/torps. But still, I guess it can be useful, but the higher powergrid requirements can possibly make it hard to fit. The best rupture setups today already require top skills to fit a 1600 mm plate, tech 2 guns and nos/launchers. So.. we'll see. :) Your forget Bellicose and Huginn (Just because Sarmaul doesnt like target painting bonuses doesnt mean we all hate them) _____________________________ Support the MGRL - uncover your six

Ulric Denrai Amarr The B-Team	Posted - 2006.08.05 18:23:00 - [201] Originally by: kieron Tux's last blog about the stats of tier 3 Battleships caused a lot of discussion. Remember, read then post, not post then read. Minmater now have a shield tanker bs and a armor tanker bs . Isn`t it better for the minmater to bring two tier 3 bs,one armor tanker and a shield tanker ? Since there are not much minmaters and amarr in eve ,it wil give those races a boost .
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.05 19:05:00 - [202] Originally by: Brute Helmet Edited by: Brute Helmet on 05/08/2006 15:50:01 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 05/08/2006 08:44:49 Originally by: Brute Helmet The assault missiles sound to me like a very useful weapon system for minmatar pilots. They will complement our autocannon nicely, giving us increased punch at medium to short ranges. Every missile thats fired doesnt have to come from one of those angular excuses for ships that the caldari fly. Too bad that none of the minmatar cruisers have missile bonuses. :) I think its only the typhoon in the entire fleet that has bonuses, and thats to cruise/torps. But still, I guess it can be useful, but the higher powergrid requirements can possibly make it hard to fit. The best rupture setups today already require top skills to fit a 1600 mm plate, tech 2 guns and nos/launchers. So.. we'll see. :) Your forget Bellicose and Huginn (Just because Sarmaul doesnt like target painting bonuses doesnt mean we all hate them) Do not forget the Breacher and the Hound while you're at it. On the other hand, our ships have been forgotten regularly in the adjustments for drones and missile changes in the past, so why do you think it will be different now? Scythe: Fit something and a pair of standard or rocket launchers. Bellicose: Former missile and drone cruiser. Nerfed badly twice and got nothing in exchange. Breacher: Just try for yourself. Sooo much lock range for a slow untanked target. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Dak Hakin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.08.05 22:48:00 - [203] I read "sneak peek" and I thought "oh hey, a couple of new battleship pics". Hmmph. _______________________________________________ I am the devil, and I'm here to do the devils work.
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S THE HAINE FOUNDATION	Posted - 2006.08.06 12:01:00 - [204] I do not care about stats - I want to see how they LOOK!!! Please show me some goodies (and I do not mean those very old concept scetches)
Minthos 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.07 00:01:00 - [205] Originally by: Cosmo Raata Originally by: Yendri Originally by: Stephar Please reexamine the Abaddon. You said in your first blog that it could be used for either tanking or ganking, but I still don't understand how it can sustain any sort of tank and shoot lasers at the same time. This is a prime example of people unable to understand the word "or". Please select from one of the Following: [ ] An Abbadon with great tanking ability [ ] An Abbadon with great ganking ability you may tick one box at any time. not both. Congratualtions. you have now discovered the meaning of the word "or". Next? He said ANY SORT OF LASERS, you see, if you knew anything about amarr ships, you'd know that short of fitting small or medium guns, with the amount of cap any LARGE gun uses w/o the cap bonus, you're completely & utterly screwed! So here is your options bud: [ ] Fit 8 Tach 2's, 2 sensor booster 2's, 2 tracking computer 2's, 3 heat sink 2's, 1 co-processor 2, 1 rcu2, 1 adaptive nano 2 & a warp core stab. Yay, shoot until something comes near & warp! Make sure you're aligned or your screwed. [ ] Put the newly nerfed Nos in highs, 2 webs, 1 cap booster & 1 scram, 2 large reps, 3 adaptive nanos, 2 completly pointless lows (fit whatever you want, as you'd already have the best tank in game). This gives you a ship that will do less than the apoc, tanks & watches its friends kill you. You fit guns & you'll cap out, PERIOD! Unless of course you put 2 cap injectors on & hope that TUX gives the ship 700m3 cargo, which aint happening. In conclusion, do you choose the awesome sniping damage dealer that must warp if a frig comes near, or the tanking beast that has to fit projectiles to do anything without capping? You have now entered the world of 1600mm. Enjoy your resistance bonus. What was that? You don't want 8 lows? Oh, so I suppose damage mods would be out of the question then. Completely unrelated, my rupture will be looking forward to the new assault launchers with anticipation.
datta Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.07 16:25:00 - [206] no offense but why give the t3 gal bs mwd bonus, most of us never use it.. why not a rep or a armour bonus or a L gun tracking bonus. most of us use coverts to warp to in range anyways and agent runner's cant use a mwd in dead space. space.. the finla frontier.. yea RIGHT!
Opai McTwist Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.08.07 17:00:00 - [207] Didn't Tux mention the MWD bonus was being shifted to a mass reduction bonus for now? A couple of thoughts on the different BSs: Amarr: Sounds for all intents and purposes like a larger Punisher/Maller. I'm very ok with this. Any chance we'll get a BS that more closely follows the Executioner or Anathema design language? Just thought I'd ask :) Caldari: Does it really need the shield resist bonus? If it is going to be used as a fleet sniper why not give it a boost to electronics upgrade using items, say a 5% CPU reduction on any electronics based module? Just trying to think of something different than the standard bonuses, although I expect this idea will get poo-pood by the Caldari out there. As a side note, I'd love it if they got a 4/4 split BS that was setup to be a midrange fighter. Gallente: Ugh. Ugh. Ugh... wait... heh. The more i think about it, the more I really don't mind the mass reduction. To me it means a boost in acceleration (less mass to accelerate by the MWD means quicker it gets up to speed), and i hope it also means better turning radius so it can orbit once it gets into range. Now all it needs is a decent track... oh wait. Tux mentioned crappy tracking and crappy drone bay... looks like webbies will come standard on this ship eh? I think tracking and no damage bonus might be warranted in this instance... it would certainly differentiate it from the Mega. Just a thought :) And finally... Minmatar: I really like the idea behind the shilding Arty boat... but, what if the shield boost bonus was a bonus to shield recharge rate instead? Build on the passive tank idea? That should free up mids, no compelling need to fit the shield boost, just throw on the extenders and resists? Just a thought... discuss?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.07 19:03:00 - [208] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/08/2006 19:05:13 Originally by: Opai McTwist And finally... Minmatar: I really like the idea behind the shilding Arty boat... but, what if the shield boost bonus was a bonus to shield recharge rate instead? Build on the passive tank idea? That should free up mids, no compelling need to fit the shield boost, just throw on the extenders and resists? Just a thought... discuss? Not sure what it would be good for. Artillery has bad dps and you need to bother with range to target constantly. I tried doing some lvl 3 missions in a cyclone and its not even close to how easy the same mission is in a ferox. So I dont think it will be even a good mission runner. Maybe if you can put a load of autocannons on it, but the ammo consumtion will force you to go back to base constantly and buy more ammo. I dont think anything will beat the Raven for missions. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Mr Bright	Posted - 2006.08.08 07:55:00 - [209] Guess some people actually "skip" the part where Tux admits the bonus is inferior to a resistance bonus..... Giving it a shield boosting bonus makes it more narrow in usage than a resistance bonus, or a HP amount bonus. Furthermore as have been said over and over in this thread allready, plus others I might add, is that an active shield tank on a turret ship with 6 midslots is appaling. Ravenpilots allready complain about the slot they have to give up to fit a scrambler, on a turret ship you need scrabmle, web, and maybe even a tracking comp. One thing I do hope is that CCP will avoid giving the caldari more than other races - again. if the Rohk gets 7 mids I would love to hear the arguments why the maelstorm doesn't get it. If any Caldari whiner goes "thats caldaris speciality" well, look at the interceptors - minmatar got one with 4 mids there. and after the new BS's we wont have speed as our "defining race thingie".
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.08 09:53:00 - [210] Tux didn't state the Maelstrom's bonus might or even will be changed with a single syllable, just that it got removed from Caldari ships for suckiness. Without free HiSlots for Nos, its tank wont be sustainable because of the massive ammo consumption fighting over the small cargo hold against the cap boosters. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.

D'Nar Caldari The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.08 11:42:00 - [211] Originally by: Mr Bright -- Snip -- Furthermore as have been said over and over in this thread allready, plus others I might add, is that an active shield tank on a turret ship with 6 midslots is appaling. Ravenpilots allready complain about the slot they have to give up to fit a scrambler, on a turret ship you need scrabmle, web, and maybe even a tracking comp. -- Snip -- That complaint by raven pilots is ... less relevant because, in my experience, a scorp is (often, but not always) more efficient in pvp combat. The 8 midslots mean you can still fit scram, web, painter... And 5 racial/multispec ECM, or 5 hardeners, or 5 left-handed blinking widgets. But I digress, this thread is in fact about the new battleships, not the existing ones. _____ Please Hold For Sig Note that these comments do not represent my opinion, or that of my corporation, alliance, government, or ISP.
Bruno Bonner Gallente Eve University The Big Blue	Posted - 2006.08.08 20:24:00 - [212] Subject: Hyperion Type of Post: Suggestion Request: please dont flame Given that Tux is looking to find other kinds of bonuses to replace the much discussed MWD bonus, the only thing that occur to me that could work out for a Battleship-sized blaster boat is: Tracking Bonus (remove damage per level bonus) Armor repair ammount bonus (similar to Brutix Battlecruiser bonus) Speed bonus to MWDs and ABs (similar to acceleration control skill) This considering that hyperion will have a very short sensor range (40km?) with a very fast target-locking speed, and large natural capacitor storage. It will allow to do what most blaster boats do, approach fast, tank during approaching and engagement and hit its target effectively. An interesting side effect of the speed bonus is that will enable an intrepid pilot to use ABs to some degree in deadspace missions and effectively use a blaster boat as a partner for level 4's (if you wish to add fun to the game of course, it seems kinda suicidal). regards Bruno ------ aka BinderAJ
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2006.08.09 06:31:00 - [213] Originally by: Bruno Bonner Subject: Hyperion Type of Post: Suggestion Request: please dont flame Given that Tux is looking to find other kinds of bonuses to replace the much discussed MWD bonus, the only thing that occur to me that could work out for a Battleship-sized blaster boat is: Tracking Bonus (remove damage per level bonus) Armor repair ammount bonus (similar to Brutix Battlecruiser bonus) Speed bonus to MWDs and ABs (similar to acceleration control skill) This considering that hyperion will have a very short sensor range (40km?) with a very fast target-locking speed, and large natural capacitor storage. It will allow to do what most blaster boats do, approach fast, tank during approaching and engagement and hit its target effectively. An interesting side effect of the speed bonus is that will enable an intrepid pilot to use ABs to some degree in deadspace missions and effectively use a blaster boat as a partner for level 4's (if you wish to add fun to the game of course, it seems kinda suicidal). regards Bruno #1. Remove damage bonus? Why the hell would you want to do that? #2. Much less efficient than an armor resist bonus. Resist bonus is superior here. Keep trying. #3. The worst idea here. Blaster boats don't need lots of top speed. What they need is cap effiency, acceleration and maximum DPS. Again, not flames. Just pointing out the obvious defects in your ideas. Because I said so...
Bruno Bonner Gallente Eve University The Big Blue	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:26:00 - [214] Edited by: Bruno Bonner on 09/08/2006 15:29:30 Originally by: murder one #1. Remove damage bonus? Why the hell would you want to do that? #2. Much less efficient than an armor resist bonus. Resist bonus is superior here. Keep trying. #3. The worst idea here. Blaster boats don't need lots of top speed. What they need is cap effiency, acceleration and maximum DPS. Again, not flames. Just pointing out the obvious defects in your ideas. I will admit that my suggestions have defects, but they were though following a trend that you can find on most gallente tech1 ships: 1- Tracking allows more hits per shot, since Blasters are considered the most powerful type of turrets a straight damage bonus using tech2 ammo will probably throw the DPS through the roof, that could be considered imbalanced. Most blaster boats in gallente ships have either damage+tracking or tracking+falloff type of turret bonus. You use blasters at very short range, and most probably orbiting your target. You DO want to hit your target more often than not than just 1 every 5 with a 2000dmg shot. 2- Repair bonus is less efficient than armor resists, im pretty sure as im familiar with the maths of tanking, but no gallente tech1 ship has such type of bonus, in comparison several tech2 gallente ships do have a bonus that enhances resistances. However, the brutix does have a repair bonus, and is considered a blaster-oriented battlecruiser (albeit with horrible agility/speed). 3- The idea of a speed bonus for Afterburner and MWDs was in order to improve "approaching", reducing the time it takes for the blaster boat to close the distance to its target. Im not changing BASE speed, since that will hurt turret tracking and therefore chance to hit per shot. It will allow a pilot to make the choice between an afterburner and MWD fit, the first is "not so fast (but still reasonable enough to be effective), but not gimped powergrip/cap", the second is "very fast (really awesome 10k in 5 secs kind of speed) but gimped powergrip/cap". Thanks for your comments thou, as i see that my suggestions needed more explanations. regards Bruno ------ aka BinderAJ
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:55:00 - [215] Originally by: Bruno Bonner Edited by: Bruno Bonner on 09/08/2006 15:29:30 Originally by: murder one #1. Remove damage bonus? Why the hell would you want to do that? #2. Much less efficient than an armor resist bonus. Resist bonus is superior here. Keep trying. #3. The worst idea here. Blaster boats don't need lots of top speed. What they need is cap effiency, acceleration and maximum DPS. Again, not flames. Just pointing out the obvious defects in your ideas. I will admit that my suggestions have defects, but they were though following a trend that you can find on most gallente tech1 ships: 1- Tracking allows more hits per shot, since Blasters are considered the most powerful type of turrets a straight damage bonus using tech2 ammo will probably throw the DPS through the roof, that could be considered imbalanced. Most blaster boats in gallente ships have either damage+tracking or tracking+falloff type of turret bonus. You use blasters at very short range, and most probably orbiting your target. You DO want to hit your target more often than not than just 1 every 5 with a 2000dmg shot. 2- Repair bonus is less efficient than armor resists, im pretty sure as im familiar with the maths of tanking, but no gallente tech1 ship has such type of bonus, in comparison several tech2 gallente ships do have a bonus that enhances resistances. However, the brutix does have a repair bonus, and is considered a blaster-oriented battlecruiser (albeit with horrible agility/speed). 3- The idea of a speed bonus for Afterburner and MWDs was in order to improve "approaching", reducing the time it takes for the blaster boat to close the distance to its target. Im not changing BASE speed, since that will hurt turret tracking and therefore chance to hit per shot. It will allow a pilot to make the choice between an afterburner and MWD fit, the first is "not so fast (but still reasonable enough to be effective), but not gimped powergrip/cap", the second is "very fast (really awesome 10k in 5 secs kind of speed) but gimped powergrip/cap". Thanks for your comments thou, as i see that my suggestions needed more explanations. regards Bruno You're still missing the point(s). I don't need it explained to me the reasoning behind the ideas. I completely understand that part. My point is that all the reasoning behind each idea is not worthwhile from any standpoint with respect to actual combat use. Allow me to reiterate- 1. Tracking bonus- even with a +100% tracking bonus per level (not +10, +100) it STILL wouldn't be worthwhile on a blasterboat when compared to a damage bonus. +7.5-10% damage per level would be a good and worthwhile bonus on the new ship. 2. Since when did I ever say that there was a precedent for a resist bonus on a Gallente ship? I didn't. Why? It doesn't matter. I don't want an armor repair amount bonus, I want a resist bonus. 3. Again, a speed bonus is worthless. I need to cover 20km in the shortest possible time. If I fit 7x overdrive injectors to my Mega as a test, or x7 nanofibers, which one do you think would win the drag race to 20km? The nanofibered ship EVERY TIME. I need acceleration, not top end speed. I want to be able to get to my target quickly with as little cap as possible. Everything else is secondary. Because I said so...
Anwyl Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.10 01:48:00 - [216] Edited by: Anwyl on 10/08/2006 01:49:18 Originally by: murder one 1. Tracking bonus- even with a +100% tracking bonus per level (not +10, +100) it STILL wouldn't be worthwhile on a blasterboat when compared to a damage bonus. +7.5-10% damage per level would be a good and worthwhile bonus on the new ship. Blasters are based on high tracking... http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g26.asp Try checking out the Electron Blaster Cannon II with lead ammo, check how likely it is to hit... then try adding 50% to the tracking. The chance to hit goes from a little over 60% optimally to a little over 70% optimally. that's 17% more damage. So sure, tracking may not give equal % to damage, but it certainly gives incentive to fly at close range. Now try your 100% bonus, check what that does. Yes, it does get rather insane when you give 500% to tracking. Oh, and I was only assuming you're going 300m/s against a battleship, forget about flying against a cruiser or heaven forbid a frigate. Without tracking you'll never hit it. edited for niceness
DemonStar Supernova	Posted - 2006.08.11 04:30:00 - [217] Well, my only beef with the hyperion is the limited use of the MWD. I rely on dedspace plexes for a lot of income, and so do many other people. MWDs are useless there, and honestly, in many other situations. I think a dedicated blaster boat would benefit from a high agility and speed bonus, and a webby bonus. It gives the ship a more specific nitch, and would make it very effective solo and in fleet patterns. Lets be realistic, no one thinks their BS is a blockade runner, and by all means they shouldnt be. It makes more sense for the ship to specisialize in being able to pin ships down rather than run them down.
Valdor Hag	Posted - 2006.08.13 11:49:00 - [218] Originally by: Jim McGregor This game is about Caldari vs Gallente. And Minnie sucking the hind tit!!!
Ashley Judd	Posted - 2006.08.17 05:40:00 - [219] Am I the only one who's remotly psyched about the new bs's? Maybe it's just becuase I don't run many alliance fleet ops (more into the small scale deal) but I mean, the Hyperion aside (cuz quite honestly no-one's sure about those bonus's yet), the Rohk will not only have crazy range with the 425 II's, but can now also be the bs equivalent of the blaster-eagle (crazy sheild tank with very sizable range for blasters), the Maelstrom, esp. with a faction booster and crystal set (okay I don' have that kinda cash, but I can always dream) will be a fantastic bs for small engagements/aggro bait with a AC gank-and-tank setup (something like 1200 + shield every 4 seconds with bs 5, XL X-type, 1 boost amp, and lg Crystal), and the Abbadon will have a simply stupid armor tank with pants for damage, or a pretty crazy tach II-gank kinda setup with a cap booster to run the damn guns :-P. I mean, if the drone boat Abbadon seems like a better solution, I'm all for it, but as is, I'm not whining too much
Xantina Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.08.17 07:47:00 - [220] Originally by: Jezala In those situations, it probably would be more effective for the Maelstrom to fit out with shield extenders which should give it enough hit points to survive a fleet volley and warp out. The Maelstrom bonus could then be used to rep up it's sheilds while it returns to the fight. Therefore the Maelstrom shield bonus is not useless during a fleet engagement. You do realize that fitting a rack full of shield extenders whould use up so much PG that you probably can't fit a full rack of 1400's (which is almost impossible for any Matar ship right now without trade-offs and high skills) which will require low slots for PCUs, which will leave you with less low slots for tracking & gyros ... An Over-Time tanking bonus for a ship that has "fleet battle" written all over it and that will be a primary if it shoots at least as well as a Tempest, is useless.

Gillman	Posted - 2006.08.30 06:58:00 - [221] Im Crying here my dear minnmatar is turning in to Shield tankers its funny since i dont have any shield skillz
sweetheart Black Reign Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.11 21:48:00 - [222] Edited by: sweetheart on 11/10/2006 21:52:42 The Hyperian shoud have Deimos like Boni'. I think it would work alot better with a reduction to capacitor penalty with an MWD fitted , rather then adding some cap if an MWD/AB is fitted .. 5% reduction to cap need for MWd per BS lvl 5% to each Armour Resistance per BS lvl 5% to tracking per BS lvl These Boni would be inline with the awesome shield boosting T3 Minmater BS etc .. Otherwise seems abit of a raw deal to me .. .............................................. To Win is Everything
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.10.11 21:49:00 - [223] Originally by: sweetheart The Hyperian shoud have Deimos like Boni'. I think it would work alot better with a reduction to capacitor penalty with an MWD fitted , rather then adding some cap if an MWD/AB is fitted .. thread necmoracy for the loss
sweetheart Black Reign Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.11 22:03:00 - [224] I cant see what lvl BS will be needed for the tier 3 , can anyone help me plz ? lvl 3 or 5 ? .............................................. To Win is Everything
Jorja Fox Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.11 22:05:00 - [225] Edited by: Jorja Fox on 11/10/2006 22:04:51 ....
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.10.11 22:06:00 - [226] Originally by: sweetheart I cant see what lvl BS will be needed for the tier 3 , can anyone help me plz ? lvl 3 or 5 ? cant give u specifics but 4 or 5 will probably be required probaly 4 as 5 will be used for higher tech 2 ones. So lets go with battleship 4 (being dual platforms maybe a secondary skill will be introduced or the fact claderi = railgun, gallente = missile or autocannon or laser setups will require u to have accceptible gunnery skills on the flip side
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 22:20:00 - [227] bs lvl3, hence the name tier 3


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