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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Dugan Lee
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:25:00 -
[181]
Originally by: GM Ender
Oh, and being an EVE GM is pretty much the best job there is :)
Lead GM Ender
Why? Don't those petitions just get mind numbing, or are you like a higher up GM that doesn't have to deal with that stuff? hehe.
I like helping people but I've learned that CS stuff is just a disgusting job. I can't believe how many unreasonable idiots are out there - and I can't even imagine how much worse it would be in a pvp game geared towards a younger (relatively) audience.
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For the whiners: New Game! |
Emsigma
Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:29:00 -
[182]
Originally by: GM Ender
To answer the other question, on whether we don't interview people before hiring. Of course we do. However, inevitably you'll get a rotten apple sooner or later. We have had three and a half years of straight-arrow GM's, so I think that our track record is pretty darn good so far.
I can agree that most of the GM's are doing their job properly but so say that you have had 3.5 years of straight-arrow people is an exagurratin, no?
I know of at least 2 GM's who have been petitioned multiple times for severe missconduction where one of the senior GM's had to mail back and apologize for the GM in question and his/her actions.
Overall I must say that this was dealt way better than I assumed it to be and you really did a good job on this one.
A little bit of my trust in the GM's have finally been restored. ---
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SengH
Black Omega Security E.R.A
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:29:00 -
[183]
Edited by: SengH on 04/08/2006 12:29:58
Originally by: DeODokktor
Originally by: w0rmy
No, but they also dont prevent you accessing your account in the meantime either.
It depends on your bank tbh. If you got overpaid by say 15,000ú (and you went straight out and ****ed it away) they would lock your account as it's probably going to be overdrawn once they remove the 15,000ú :)
Plus if a bank thinks your guilty of something like, dunno, being a drug dealer or something of the ilk then they can freeze ur account only stating "our internal fraud department has asked us to freeze the account for a week"..
Anyhow, I dont see why an account has to be bann'd, S***ely a GM can claw back the stuff directly :/. I have heard of a few of things being taken back before and never heard of a ban ;P..
Oh well
For all they know the player could have been in cahoots with the GM. If the mods had gone up on escrow and ppl had bought them and the isk spent on other stuff/alts/moved onto ebay. How much time do you think would have to be spent tracking it all down?
This way they freeze the assets before anything can be done to them.
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SengH
Black Omega Security E.R.A
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:31:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Emsigma
Originally by: GM Ender
To answer the other question, on whether we don't interview people before hiring. Of course we do. However, inevitably you'll get a rotten apple sooner or later. We have had three and a half years of straight-arrow GM's, so I think that our track record is pretty darn good so far.
I can agree that most of the GM's are doing their job properly but so say that you have had 3.5 years of straight-arrow people is an exagurratin, no?
I know of at least 2 GM's who have been petitioned multiple times for severe missconduction where one of the senior GM's had to mail back and apologize for the GM in question and his/her actions.
Overall I must say that this was dealt way better than I assumed it to be and you really did a good job on this one.
A little bit of my trust in the GM's have finally been restored.
Your lucky, all I got for my petition was an oops it was our mistake honest. Can I help you with anything else?
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:31:00 -
[185]
Everybody can have a bad day... putting billions of loot into the game is something quite different no?
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Peachy Peachpants
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:42:00 -
[186]
Ender you're the lead GM for TQ now? I guess Arkanon got shipped to China then?
Thanks for keeping EVE GM Team l33t and awesome. We don't want no cheaters.
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Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:42:00 -
[187]
Ender, I'm glad that this has been resolved and a corrupt GM has been brought to account, however I am not satisfied with your post. You state:
Originally by: GM Ender We asked him to hand it over, and he flatly refused.
But unfortunately I've seen the logs, that is a blatant inaccuracy. In fact he said that the GM team were more than welcome to take them and asked what items he should return, the GM team could not list such items which led to him becoming suspiscious of what exactly was going on - as the character in question is a programmer himself he was very, rightly, confused that logs don't exist for such things.
He did not flatly refuse at all, he offered to work WITH your team to return them. Was that really too much to ask for? The phrases "I don't mind if you take them" and "pls feel free to remove them" (those are exact quotes) do not constitute "flat refusal" to cooperate.
I think you owe Hazad an apology.
Might I also suggest you put in a feature request with the Devs to have "non-destroyed loot" added as a logging function.
Well done on getting this sorted, I know you guys learn from your mistakes but, in your own words, this one was a bit of a doozy.
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Aero089
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:47:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Dianabolic Ender, I'm glad that this has been resolved and a corrupt GM has been brought to account, however I am not satisfied with your post. You state:
Originally by: GM Ender We asked him to hand it over, and he flatly refused.
But unfortunately I've seen the logs, that is a blatant inaccuracy. In fact he said that the GM team were more than welcome to take them and asked what items he should return, the GM team could not list such items which led to him becoming suspiscious of what exactly was going on - as the character in question is a programmer himself he was very, rightly, confused that logs don't exist for such things.
He did not flatly refuse at all, he offered to work WITH your team to return them. Was that really too much to ask for? The phrases "I don't mind if you take them" and "pls feel free to remove them" (those are exact quotes) do not constitute "flat refusal" to cooperate.
I think you owe Hazad an apology.
Might I also suggest you put in a feature request with the Devs to have "non-destroyed loot" added as a logging function.
Well done on getting this sorted, I know you guys learn from your mistakes but, in your own words, this one was a bit of a doozy.
Agreed and supported. I have seen the same logs.
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BustyBounty
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:55:00 -
[189]
will anything else the naughty GM has done be investigated aswell? i doubt this is the first time he has done something he shouldnt have.
------------------------------------------ My opinions are my own and not that of the alliance I belong to. |
Quurst
Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:55:00 -
[190]
Originally by: kieron You know what they say about making assumptions, and you are making a big one by assuming a GM is willing to risk his job by spawning some high end modules for himself or some of his buddies.
lmao
Still it's pretty scary that the banhammer was unleashed so quickly on the guy discovering the fraud.
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fl0pski
Occassus Republica Process of Elimination
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:00:00 -
[191]
Hi, did you return the officer items to a you looted from that guy to a GM?
I think its not right or fair towards the eve community to keep illigally spawned items.
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Gilbert Drillerson
DarkStar 1 Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:02:00 -
[192]
Two things:
1. It is part of all law that i know about that items stolen dont change status to "not stolen" when sold/transferred. Consider: Someone steals my car and resells it to another buyer (who is in good faith). I see the car on the street and call the police, the buyer looses the car and i get it back.
Now the thief goes to jail and the innocent buyer has lost his money and has to go get them from the thief... that blew them all on quafe and exotic dancers in the PMV-G6 refinery station. So he may NEVR get his money unless the criminal at one point wins the lottery.
It seems unfair to the Buyer, but that is how it is in all criminal law i know about... thus the term Buyer beware... the alternative is to give me the rightfull owner of the car a problem.. (which is even more unfair).
2. The GM in question isnt necessecerily a bad guy out to help a mate or resell the stuff on ebay... I think its much more likely that he is just stupid. I can easily imagine a noob GM wanting to test out the best possible stuff on 0.0 rats planning to remove all the stuff afterwards. It is still wrong and he still looses his job... but it a little more understandable :)
/Gil
Dont get mad - Get even |
Virida
Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:05:00 -
[193]
Thumbs up for CCP, for being honest. I think noone else would be so open at least.
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abraheam
Caldari Emerald Empire Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:06:00 -
[194]
Edited by: abraheam on 04/08/2006 13:08:22 Some may view this as harsh but I dont care.
I dont think anyone in a position to manipulate the game should be able to have any kind of personal account in it. That is like the people that pick the winning lotto numbers playing it, someone investing in oil company stocks able to vote on energy policies, amoung a wide varieties of examples.
To much room for tempatation to take over.
the bottom line is what is more important. Having job or playing a game.
Please dont let this happen again ccp. I know you try hard and I enjoy your game but please try harder. Or at least catch the person before this happens and someone has to get temp banned... under the cirumstances I dont think that was necessary. The GM messed up and whoever hired him. not the player. I gotta say if I was the one temp banned I would no longer be playing this game.
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MasterDk78
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:08:00 -
[195]
Originally by: MasterDk78 Nice kill...
I hope not it was ccp who entered 0.0 and got ganked and is crying to get his items back lol. if they cant handle tha game, go to test-server lol
for what i understand, it took them 6-8 min to kill this guy
Ooh.... so i was right lol Btw hazad is a cool guy, i would reacted the same way if i got loot like that and was convoed 20 min after telling to give the loot up LOL
anyhow, compensate haz for the time he could not play, would be proper action, since this isnt really his flaw.
- Best Masterdk78
----------------------------------------------- Why waste time on details when it ends up being ugly anyway
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:09:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Dugan Lee stomped by some do-gooders
That's what Im going to tell people I'm doing from now on when I gank them - checking they aren't an errant GM for the good of the community :)
Scrapheap Challenge Forums |
Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:10:00 -
[197]
I'd rather have GM's that understand the game then ones that don't, thank you very much. Just requires some professionality to not exploit your position. And some nice mechanics ( and those are in place ) to prevent/catch it.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:13:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 04/08/2006 13:17:08
Originally by: abraheam Edited by: abraheam on 04/08/2006 13:08:22 Some may view this as harsh but I dont care.
I dont think anyone in a position to manipulate the game should be able to have any kind of personal account in it. That is like the people that pick the winning lotto numbers playing it, someone investing in oil company stocks able to vote on energy policies, amoung a wide varieties of examples.
To much room for tempatation to take over.
the bottom line is what is more important. Having job or playing a game.
Please dont let this happen again ccp. I know you try hard and I enjoy your game but please try harder. Or at least catch the person before this happens and someone has to get temp banned... under the cirumstances I dont think that was necessary. The GM messed up and whoever hired him. not the player. I gotta say if I was the one temp banned I would no longer be playing this game.
Not harsh, stupid.
You really prefer to have utter newbies handling your petitions ? Guys who haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about ?
They have to play the game to work at CCP.
Oh and I agree, banning the player is kinda out of line, and that's the GM team in action, not a rogue newbie GM..
Sounds to me like he was willing to cooperate, but that wasn't good enough, lack of immediate and unconditional submission and surrender with no questions asked = ban ? |
ParMizaN
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:17:00 -
[199]
Good to see that the guy was dealt with.
sig edited for lack of pink really PINK -eris |
Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:20:00 -
[200]
Interesting ...
just for information, the reason i checked this thread again (after thinking that its probably a joke from the killboard owners the first time i saw it) were accounts of estamel invulnerability fields on escrow (roughly as likely as a "hulk BPO x3 reseller package" ... and some other estamel loot (BCUs etc) ... in six months of trading, i have not seen a single one of them ... ever. Thats the only part of the loot that is a 100% give-away.
And its probably the first time for many years where someone who messed up didnt try to justifiy it with accusing the victim of having weapons of mass destruction ;)
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Oosel
Nightmare Holdings Armorum Unitas
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:44:00 -
[201]
we had a guy banned not so long ago for claiming escrow loot that a player put up by mistake and he claimed said player then complained to a gm and all hell broke lose with accusations of our guy colluding with someone to do it....
when it was elivated to a higher gm and it was shown that the lesser gm had in fact banned our guy for the wrong reasons he got an apology and back into the game so as much as the guy who popped him getting banned is a downer its not the first time its happened and as long as he gets the time back on his account that he was banned for i cant see him being that annoyed as he offered to help in the first place
with incidents like these it takes time for things to come to light but at least now it has come to light they might now put in place measures to flag up uber loot items like these being spawned into any gm account so incidents like this can be tracked sooner
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abraheam
Caldari Emerald Empire Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2006.08.04 14:01:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk [Not harsh, stupid.
You really prefer to have utter newbies handling your petitions ? Guys who haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about ?
They have to play the game to work at CCP.
Oh and I agree, banning the player is kinda out of line, and that's the GM team in action, not a rogue newbie GM..
Sounds to me like he was willing to cooperate, but that wasn't good enough, lack of immediate and unconditional submission and surrender with no questions asked = ban ?
I dont understand how beng an good PvPer makes you able to better work out a hanger bug.....but whatever. I could have sworn that dealt with the workings of the game/coding itself; not how to fit a ship..........
If they need to know the game mechanics that is what the test server is for. having GM capabilities while owning personal account will lead to exactly what happened.
Do you want Eve to be known as the game that is run by griefers? I dont. Things like this ruin games. since the only real reason we know about this incident is becuase a paying customer is involved what else doas the community not know about.
I am at least glad we agree about the banning though.
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.04 14:04:00 -
[203]
Stop the tinfoil hat theories. They're well aware of the consequences stuff like this could have if alowed. GM's should play the game they GM for.
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Valrandir
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.04 14:05:00 -
[204]
Originally by: GM Ender Edited by: GM Ender on 04/08/2006 11:09:08 Ok...
WeÆve finished the investigation. There was indeed a guilty party. It was a brand new GM who obviously didnÆt understand the rules as they were thorougly explained to him, who took it upon himself to cheat in such an outrageous manner.
This is in fact the first time in three and a half years that a GM has been found cheating in such a way. I wanted to get that out of the way before any conspiracy nuts pop up. But oh boy, was it a doozy.
This particular new GM is now looking for a new job, as we do not, and never have tolarated to even a slight degree, any cheating within EVE. We are much too fully aware of the possible consequences of allowing any cheating to go on among the GM's. We do regular sweeps where we go over the logs of everyone to see what they are doing on their player accounts.
As for the player who ended up with the loot, he has been temporarily banned for refusing to co-operate. We asked him to hand it over, and he flatly refused. We had no choice but to temporarily ban his account while we retrieve the goods. As Kieron stated above, if the bank accidentally deposits money that doesnÆt belong to you in your account, you canÆt expect to be allowed to keep it.
He will get control of his account back as soon as weÆre satisfied that we have retrieved all the stuff.
Lead GM Ender
Most excellent conclusion. Respect to CCP Shame to the n00b GM
-------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware.
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Valrandir
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.04 14:08:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Dugan Lee
Originally by: Ombey , just
To be honest, I just scanned this thread, same old, same old, right? Wrong. GM Ender's post has floored me.
How can someone who has (had) *such* a cool job, risk it for something so trivial as cheating in a game? If his arse isn't sore from kicking himself, I'd be amazed.
Good job to the other GMs for finding it so fast.
We'll - I doubt that GM job pays super great... and we've already established it was something like $3200 worth of items. That may explain part of the motives.
Wrong, he used the officer fitted scorpion to jump into a 0.0 chokepoint. Indeed how can such people become GM?
-------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware.
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Christopher Scott
Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen
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Posted - 2006.08.04 14:12:00 -
[206]
Originally by: abraheam
I dont understand how beng an good PvPer makes you able to better work out a hanger bug.....but whatever. I could have sworn that dealt with the workings of the game/coding itself; not how to fit a ship..........
Oh, I can give you a million reasons on how it does. Believe me, actual game experience makes a big difference with quality assurance and customer support. Think of the difference between a technician speaking from his own experience, or an outsourced service rep reading scripted responses from a manual(with strong accents).
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.08.04 14:15:00 -
[207]
Originally by: abraheam I dont understand how beng an good PvPer makes you able to better work out a hanger bug.....but whatever. I could have sworn that dealt with the workings of the game/coding itself; not how to fit a ship..........
If they need to know the game mechanics that is what the test server is for. having GM capabilities while owning personal account will lead to exactly what happened.
Do you want Eve to be known as the game that is run by griefers? I dont. Things like this ruin games. since the only real reason we know about this incident is becuase a paying customer is involved what else doas the community not know about.
I am at least glad we agree about the banning though.
EVE is run by griefers, it always has been, that's why it's such an awesome game However I wasn't saying GMs should be PvPers, altho they probly should. I was saying they should actually play the game so they're at least familiar with how it works, so they know what a player is talking about when he petitions, playing on test server is pointless and boring and in no way a good measure of what TQ is actually like.
a GM has nothing to do with code or anything like that, they use tools that are provided to them read petitions and make judgement calls within the framework of their policy. How they interpret those petitions is obviously influenced by whether they understand them, and they're a lot more likely to comprehend what people are talking about if they've been in the same situation or at least in she same ballpark..
Would you want a GM handling your manufacturing bug petition if he's never used a lab or factory ingame ? I wouldn't.
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abraheam
Caldari Emerald Empire Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2006.08.04 14:23:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Originally by: abraheam I dont understand how beng an good PvPer makes you able to better work out a hanger bug.....but whatever. I could have sworn that dealt with the workings of the game/coding itself; not how to fit a ship..........
If they need to know the game mechanics that is what the test server is for. having GM capabilities while owning personal account will lead to exactly what happened.
Do you want Eve to be known as the game that is run by griefers? I dont. Things like this ruin games. since the only real reason we know about this incident is becuase a paying customer is involved what else doas the community not know about.
I am at least glad we agree about the banning though.
EVE is run by griefers, it always has been, that's why it's such an awesome game However I wasn't saying GMs should be PvPers, altho they probly should. I was saying they should actually play the game so they're at least familiar with how it works, so they know what a player is talking about when he petitions, playing on test server is pointless and boring and in no way a good measure of what TQ is actually like.
a GM has nothing to do with code or anything like that, they use tools that are provided to them read petitions and make judgement calls within the framework of their policy. How they interpret those petitions is obviously influenced by whether they understand them, and they're a lot more likely to comprehend what people are talking about if they've been in the same situation or at least in she same ballpark..
Would you want a GM handling your manufacturing bug petition if he's never used a lab or factory ingame ? I wouldn't.
Please look ay my edit for that was the maincounter to thisargument I forgot to add to the post in teh first place.
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.08.04 14:23:00 -
[209]
Originally by: abraheam Edited by: abraheam on 04/08/2006 13:08:22 Some may view this as harsh but I dont care.
I dont think anyone in a position to manipulate the game should be able to have any kind of personal account in it. That is like the people that pick the winning lotto numbers playing it, someone investing in oil company stocks able to vote on energy policies, amoung a wide varieties of examples.
To much room for tempatation to take over.
the bottom line is what is more important. Having job or playing a game.
Please dont let this happen again ccp. I know you try hard and I enjoy your game but please try harder. Or at least catch the person before this happens and someone has to get temp banned... under the cirumstances I dont think that was necessary. The GM messed up and whoever hired him. not the player. I gotta say if I was the one temp banned I would no longer be playing this game.
Seen this argument a thousand times before, and it just doesn't fly. If you apply it to paid support staff you get staff who have no idea how the game works, and if you apply it to volunteers you end up with no volunteers. Everybody who's involved with the game at a level above being a player should play the game IMO, as it makes them better at their jobs - even former players can get out of touch with the current status quo very easily. I'd be far more worried about the people making decisions who don't play than those who do.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2006.08.04 14:24:00 -
[210]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 04/08/2006 14:24:07
Sounds like ArachV0id wants to be a GM when he grows up ..
MOOCIFER Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer |
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