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Scoundrelus The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:07:00 - [1] Ok this is a whine. I'm ****ed off and here I am whining. Now that those of you who hate whines know this go to a different thread. What kind of whine is this? Its an ECM whine. You know how people call Burn Eden lamers for stabbing up their ships? Well it seems we have an ECM version of Burn Eden now. These AYDS corp guys are the most annoying thing to EVER hit EVE in my opinion. They'll fly around in a gang of like 8 people and each one has ECM on their ship. Our corporation are experienced PvPers yet we have lost Command Ships and Recons to their ECM fleets and these guys are all like 4 months old! You just cannot fight back. All you can do is sit there and wait to die with like 15 Multispectrals on you. How can we overcome this? Simple answer. Grab another 8 man ECM fleet and hope to out-ECM them. Wheres the fun in that though? Why must we alter our tactics because of the actions of a few individuals who prefer the lamer side of PvP. ECM is getting ridiculous. It's unbelievable how retarded this one module is. I can lose 100 ships in combat and it won't bother me one bit, but losing one to ECM drives me crazy. I don't expect CCP to see this thread and nerf it. I don't expect anything good to come from this thread, however merely posting it makes me feel better that I've vented a bit. Also it helps to remember that any AYDS member you run into will have ECM. ===============================================
Kriva Fajriika DOLT KREW	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:10:00 - [2] Fit ECCM.
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:12:00 - [3] Originally by: Kriva Fajriika Fit ECCM. Yes, because ECCM will stop 15+ multispectrals. Been there, tried it, failed. ===============================================
Selfe Caldari UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:15:00 - [4] Well jamm them before they jamm you ----------------------- Join The UK Corperation. Foundin Partners in Lokta Volterra
Verone	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:15:00 - [5] HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Dude, seriously... We've seen the same thing. I've done some research and it's like this. Highs = Guns Mids = ECM Lows = Stabs People say "waaah waaah use backups". Hold on... backups get a stacking penalty... ECM modules don't, their chance stacks... so fit a rack and you're guaranteed a perma jam, even moreso with a gang of ECM racked people. In one way props to them, they're killing people and taking minimal losses. In another way it shows just how messed up ECM is, and now there is no practical counter for it when the reality of how it's fitted is realised. We've pretty much given up on actively engaging them, they only engage with at least 3:1 odds and masses of ECM. We've seen ruptures with 5 points on them warp out of a fight. Then again, when they do explode on the rare occasion, they drop lots of stabs, which refine ok to build Ammo, that we waste on shooting them. Vicious cycle mate... BACKSTORY AND FAN FICTION
Drayce Caldari Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:20:00 - [6] Have you tried full FoF missile attacks? Long Range? ECM them before they nab you? Sic drones on them before you get locked down? ECM is obviously their strong point, try and think of a way around it. ECM modules take mid slots, they're obviously sacrificing something else to equip those modules whether it be speed (Afterburners or MWD), tank (If they're Caldari or certain Minnie boats) or tackle gear (Webbers and Warp Disruptors). Play to their weaknesses and to your strengths. always remember... Think before you post
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:25:00 - [7] Originally by: Drayce Have you tried full FoF missile attacks? Long Range? ECM them before they nab you? Sic drones on them before you get locked down? ECM is obviously their strong point, try and think of a way around it. ECM modules take mid slots, they're obviously sacrificing something else to equip those modules whether it be speed (Afterburners or MWD), tank (If they're Caldari or certain Minnie boats) or tackle gear (Webbers and Warp Disruptors). Play to their weaknesses and to your strengths. I appreciate your attempt bro but TRUST me, theres nothing we haven't tried. Out ECMing them is the only solution and we hate doing that. The corp doesn't agree with it. Long range works, but they just warp away then. Drones work, but they can't do ALL the work. Also not all ships are drone ships. FoF would be good but not everyone can use FoF. I have like 36k missile skills because im Amarr. We've gone against them with VASTLY superior ships and just been utterly wiped due to ECM. There was one successful incident where it was 7 vs 7 and they lost all 7 of their ships and we lost 3. They didn't have ECM at that time except for 1 Blackbird. I heard ECM will be nerfed in Kali. Is this true or are some cruel players raising my hopes for no reason? ===============================================
Leilani Solaris Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:27:00 - [8] AYDS are ghey, they blobbed my zealot On another note, NERF ECM!
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:29:00 - [9] Don't while, the most you could have lost was a cruiser. Guess what happens when you load up on a lot of ECCM modules against an enemy that does nothing but ECM... Their ships are gimped. I hate ECM too, and yes it's unbalanced, but even still you can and should adapt especially if you know your enemy this well. My Guides
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Aeaus Don't while, the most you could have lost was a cruiser. Guess what happens when you load up on a lot of ECCM modules against an enemy that does nothing but ECM... Their ships are gimped. I hate ECM too, and yes it's unbalanced, but even still you can and should adapt especially if you know your enemy this well. I don't see how all I could have lost was a Cruiser since I fly HACs, Recons, Battleships, etc. ===============================================
Zudari eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:37:00 - [11] id try an uber tank and hope they run out of cap
Dao 2 Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:33:00 - [12] regardless of whatever else ppl are saying ;p i think a general consenssus is that ECM needs to be nerfed and is unbalanced ;p least tahts how i see it :\| and i do think it is way overpowered ;p the "ecm nerf" was nothing of the sort.... ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that Also the gal
Aram Gishno Caldari The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:42:00 - [13] Now you know what all those people you've ganked felt like :) <carebear> Leave me alone! I want to play the game my way! And I want to fit lots and lots of expanders! <pirate> Muahahahahha! Too bad for you, adapt and fit stabs, use a scout and instas or die you little fluffy carebear! Adapt! <carebear> but.. but.. you killed my ship! I'm sure you can see the irony :)
Kuolematon Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Aram Gishno Now you know what all those people you've ganked felt like :) <carebear> Leave me alone! I want to play the game my way! And I want to fit lots and lots of expanders! <pirate> Muahahahahha! Too bad for you, adapt and fit stabs, use a scout and instas or die you little fluffy carebear! Adapt! <carebear> but.. but.. you killed my ship! I'm sure you can see the irony :) Priceless! Unnerf Amarr! "Just because you can utterly ruin another player's game doesn't mean that you must."
Rexthor Hammerfists Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.14 06:13:00 - [15] more like clueless. its pretty obvious that ecm needs a fix, id b all for takin mulitspectrals out of the game til a new solution is on the way, til fitting single racials on not special jamming ships isnt practiable. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Skraelingz Gallente Gallente Federal Bank	Posted - 2006.08.14 07:40:00 - [16] Edited by: Skraelingz on 14/08/2006 07:41:25 Quote: Out ECMing them is the only solution and we hate doing that. The corp doesn't agree with it. If it works, it works though right? Its not HOW you win fights in this game, its who's the one flying thier ship and not thier pod back. If you won't out eccm or ecm or whatever them, then enjoy continuing to get owned. -----------------------------------------------
IizzaBatch	Posted - 2006.08.14 07:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Kriva Fajriika Fit ECCM. Fit eccm and get jammed anyway, it doesn't work, the best chance they have is to play them at their own game and fit jammers aswell. Jamming is not fit to be ingame in its current state.
IizzaBatch	Posted - 2006.08.14 07:46:00 - [18] Edited by: IizzaBatch on 14/08/2006 07:48:40 Originally by: Aeaus Don't while, the most you could have lost was a cruiser. Guess what happens when you load up on a lot of ECCM modules against an enemy that does nothing but ECM... Their ships are gimped. I hate ECM too, and yes it's unbalanced, but even still you can and should adapt especially if you know your enemy this well. No, more like, guess what happens when you load up on eccm vs ecm users, your ship is just as gimped as theres is, and they end up getting some jams of on you anyway, you lose. It doesn't help that eccm has a stacking penalty, but even if it didnt, jamming would still need to be nerfed.
Mintless AYDS	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:03:00 - [19] I am not sure if I should be saying anything here, but what the hell. I am new to this game (almost 1 month now) and joined up with all my friends in ayds (we're all from other games so we've played with eachother alot). I am amarr and I am still having trouble figuring out what role I want to fill (I like the color ships :( but ppl say they suck!). That's me. Now for ayds: Multispec ECM spam? Please. Every encounter i've been in (so everything in the past month) we've spent plenty of time scouting, prepping, and talking over. That's most of the skill involved in the game anyways right? Unless pressing F1-F8 with a mix of CONTROL and ALT is considered mind bending skillz. Thankfully the real issue of this thread isn't ayds (or is it? ), but how blatently overpowered and broken ECMS actually are. Fortunately, we're allowed to spam them as much as we can to continue to show the EVE online universe how stupid their function vs ECCMs (which when stacked can be powerful, but you'll still get jammed) really is, and they'll get nerfed to something reasonable. I am hoping that is what this thread is actually about, and not about a corp of 3-4 month old players (at most) winning due to coordination and planning vs year/2year/3year old ships & corps. As for us spamming stabs? rofl, what? I think 2, maybe 3 of us, in the entire corp even have whatever skill it is you've gotta have to fit them. It's also pretty neat that veto says something about OUR stabs. If I recall correctly (and our logs as well) an ishkur of yours piloted by some newer member with phoenix in his name had 3 points of scram on him, and a web, and somehow warped out. (and then took a screenshot, in which he said he'd take a screenshot right 'now', yet the screenshot showed him a few systems out, an empty local, and some mismash junk lows). Sorry for the smacktalk, I usally refrain from that, but I was delighted to find out how much veto frowns upon stabs only to encounter a veto stabber shortly thereafter. ---- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:03:00 - [20] Chateau EWAR? ---------------- Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness.
Dixon Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:07:00 - [21] ECM is getting a nerf, so you can rejoice over that fact... AIDS however is still overpowered. - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other...
ZaKma The Scope	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:13:00 - [22] Originally by: Verone Hold on... backups get a stacking penalty... ECM modules don't, their chance stacks... so fit a rack and you're guaranteed a perma jam, even moreso with a gang of ECM racked people. Their chance doesn't stack. Each module has it's own chance to jam, regardless of how many you fit. I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
Gilbert0	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:16:00 - [23] You guys can bring up the fact that ECM needs to be nerfed all you want- it really does need to be nerfed. However I'd ask that you at least get your facts straight. Verone is saying we're stabbed to the max or whatever- none of us fit stabs at all except our TWO (count em) jammers- which are in dedicated jamming ships (even they don't fit them unless they think they might get primaried). None of our DPS ships have ECM fitted. Two jamming ships- not full racks on everyone. No stabs on any DPS ship whatsoever. A rupture warped off with 5 points on it? Right man :P. (as an aside, a Veto ishtar really DID warp off with 3 points on it the other day). Let's tackle the 3:1 odds thing next. Usually you guys engage us, not the other way around. You'll see EXACTLY what we have and our numbers and engage us anyway. I'm not sure how you are in a position to complain. Nothing but respect for you guys, you're obviously making decent money pirating to be able to constantly lose battleships and hacs to us. For the record Verone you've never even engaged us as far as I know. You're hearing a lot of excuses from your guys for dying to our 4 month old tech 1 cruisers I'd imagine, but try not to believe everything you hear.
Mintless AYDS	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:18:00 - [24] Hm I wanted to keep secret the fact that we only have 2 ships at most (one who's working alot, and the other who's afk at random intervals :\|), both of which are specialized ecm ships anyways, but oh well ---- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:21:00 - [25] Originally by: Scoundrelus Originally by: Kriva Fajriika Fit ECCM. Yes, because ECCM will stop 15+ multispectrals. Been there, tried it, failed. Have you tried it since ECCM got boosted? It really makes a difference now. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:22:00 - [26] Originally by: Gilbert0 You guys can bring up the fact that ECM needs to be nerfed all you want- it really does need to be nerfed. However I'd ask that you at least get your facts straight. Verone is saying we're stabbed to the max or whatever- none of us fit stabs at all except our TWO (count em) jammers- which are in dedicated jamming ships (even they don't fit them unless they think they might get primaried). None of our DPS ships have ECM fitted. Two jamming ships- not full racks on everyone. No stabs on any DPS ship whatsoever. A rupture warped off with 5 points on it? Right man :P. (as an aside, a Veto ishtar really DID warp off with 3 points on it the other day). Let's tackle the 3:1 odds thing next. Usually you guys engage us, not the other way around. You'll see EXACTLY what we have and our numbers and engage us anyway. I'm not sure how you are in a position to complain. Nothing but respect for you guys, you're obviously making decent money pirating to be able to constantly lose battleships and hacs to us. For the record Verone you've never even engaged us as far as I know. You're hearing a lot of excuses from your guys for dying to our 4 month old tech 1 cruisers I'd imagine, but try not to believe everything you hear. Some cleverly worded smack, 7/10 I agree with the Op, ECM brakes PvP and is a complete ***** joke. Bleh as to these noob ecm stabmonkeys.... Just do exactly what they will complain and whine about, blob them with snipers Alliaanna** DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Mintless AYDS	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:23:00 - [27] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Originally by: Gilbert0 You guys can bring up the fact that ECM needs to be nerfed all you want- it really does need to be nerfed. However I'd ask that you at least get your facts straight. Verone is saying we're stabbed to the max or whatever- none of us fit stabs at all except our TWO (count em) jammers- which are in dedicated jamming ships (even they don't fit them unless they think they might get primaried). None of our DPS ships have ECM fitted. Two jamming ships- not full racks on everyone. No stabs on any DPS ship whatsoever. A rupture warped off with 5 points on it? Right man :P. (as an aside, a Veto ishtar really DID warp off with 3 points on it the other day). Let's tackle the 3:1 odds thing next. Usually you guys engage us, not the other way around. You'll see EXACTLY what we have and our numbers and engage us anyway. I'm not sure how you are in a position to complain. Nothing but respect for you guys, you're obviously making decent money pirating to be able to constantly lose battleships and hacs to us. For the record Verone you've never even engaged us as far as I know. You're hearing a lot of excuses from your guys for dying to our 4 month old tech 1 cruisers I'd imagine, but try not to believe everything you hear. Some cleverly worded smack, 7/10 I agree with the Op, ECM brakes PvP and is a complete ***** joke. Bleh as to these noob ecm stabmonkeys.... Just do exactly what they will complain and whine about, blob them with snipers Alliaanna** I agree. more people come out to our systems!! ---- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
The Penitent	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:26:00 - [28] if you really hate ecm that bad, save up for a mothership.
Tanya Kovacs SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:35:00 - [29] Oh dear this sucks. I'm Caldari and I have quite alot sp in ecm-skills. Hearing stories like this really hurts me . /emote fears the ubernerf which renders ecm-ships nearly useless -- All my postings reflects just my personal opinion and my lacking knowledge of proper english. There is no lag in EVE \o/
eLLioTT wave Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:38:00 - [30] Edited by: eLLioTT wave on 14/08/2006 08:38:13 Originally by: The Penitent if you really hate ecm that bad, save up for a mothership. You lose the thread! edit: that was so bad in fact, you lose the forums for today.

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