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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.11.01 09:40:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Ana Khouri on 01/11/2003 09:42:31
 Quote:
you're targetted and under attack. Guns are firing, drones are circling, and missiles are inbound. You activate your cloak.
What happens???
Nothing - since you cannot cloak when you are targeted.
Quote:
3-4 secs?...what will the frigs be firing?
It`s hard enough for 4 BS`s to finish another1 in 10 secs with wrecking hits...and that`s if he`s afk or forgot to shield boost or whatever
She probably thinks of of 4 kestrels firing cruise missles. Won't be enough, though. First, the cloaking device is a highslot item, so a kestrel only will be able to mount 3 launchers. With 4 kestrels that's a maximum damage of 4000 damage - that will only kill the BS shields (or it's shields and half of his armor if he uses a MWD).
free speech not allowed here |
Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2003.11.01 13:16:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Zyrla Bladestorm on 01/11/2003 13:35:35
um star trek lets see .. :)
vortcha are as far as I can remember the larger klingon main battle ships that only pop up in the big war scenes ususally (possibly older too .. but larger all the same)
Birds of prey are relatively small, agile ships packing largeish guns and a cloak, they uncloak behind/to the side of someone, let off a full volley and recloak and reposition to repeat it over, so a larger enemy doesn't get a good chance to counter-attack
would be good if frigates could do that .. :)
the romulan Warbirds and other starfleet star-ship size cloaking vessels tend to just uncloak and start firing .. presumably too expensive (and/or there too slow/not agile enough) to pull off the same strategy as the birds of prey
(edit add :) ) or they couldnt be bothered doing the cgi ;)
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.02 15:18:00 -
[93]
The only improvement IŠd like to see is being able to warp cloaked and being able to enable or disable the module in warp.
Apart from this though I think the module is totally ok. IMO cloaking should be used by scouts and spies only, therefor the current restrictions are fine. Cloaking in battleships is basically useless but IMO battleships shouldnŠt be able to cloak anway. I think the best would be to limit cloaking to frigates only.
Mai's Idealog |
Kaylon Syi
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Posted - 2003.11.04 20:08:00 -
[94]
Quote:
The only improvement IŠd like to see is being able to warp cloaked and being able to enable or disable the module in warp.
Apart from this though I think the module is totally ok. IMO cloaking should be used by scouts and spies only, therefor the current restrictions are fine. Cloaking in battleships is basically useless but IMO battleships shouldnŠt be able to cloak anway. I think the best would be to limit cloaking to frigates only.
Sorry I disagree. Cloaking as far as I can tell ( yes I like star trek ) is a a popular device because we have seen it in Star Trek. Every Sci-Fi game that I have played has had some form of cloak based around ST. Also ( here comes my Trek Geek Speek ) in a Nex Generation Episode "Pegusus" The Enterprise under Picard fitted a Cloak that could pass thru objects.
Why should Frigates only be able to use Cloaks. Do you have anything against Cruisers and BS using cloaks. Its our ship that takes the resource hit not yours. If you don't want to see an Armageddon, Apoc, Raven or Scorpion ( the only ships i would use it on - maybe typhoon ) uncloak in front of you and blast you to smitherenes... don't go to a place where it can happen....
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sokkusu
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Posted - 2003.11.05 09:34:00 -
[95]
bs shouldn't cloak because :
1 ) there are powerfull enough (it have too many advantage over the other class).
2 ) actualy, once you have a bs, the frigates are useless. It'll give another option to this class ship but to be a newbie ship.
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Waahoo
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:14:00 -
[96]
Quote:
Ana: I agree on all but the no targetting while cloaked. I think you should be able to target but any offensive action should render you visible. Such as ECM, Firing, Draining their cap etc
The code to detect offensive actions is already in game so we know it is possilbe. With this setup you could cloak and scan ships that pass and relay information to others. But you cannot use ecm or fire without decloaking.
I think you should be able to lock while cloaked so long as initiating this action causes you to decloak, this includes using the passive targeters therwise they would be fitted in tandem. Actually do it, as this would allow lock and give the cloaked ship that element of surprise it was looking for, but tie up a mid slot as well.
If the shields dont come up to fast the target would stilll have a chance to kill the aggressor
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Proud to be a Dentist.....pliers and drills at the ready.
Is it safe? <buzzzzzz> |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:36:00 -
[97]
Make the penalties go up with size of ship (Size - that doesnt just eman class).
But give the frigates a break and let them have the smallest posible penalty of all.... and, ftlog, make different modules for each class of ship. 
There are only 3 classes atm after all...
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.11.08 13:19:00 -
[98]
4 with indys 
free speech not allowed here |
Deadflip2
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Posted - 2003.11.09 14:00:00 -
[99]
Quote:
@Drutorn:
I dont agree with ur last comment there, I would hate to see BSs cruising around in cloak an blowing up stations...
Frigates and cruisers are doomed to extinction so CCP puts up a cloaking device to give them a role again, but this thing certainly needs balancing.
My suggestion is:
-If u can cloak u should be fast and agile and use it as a hit 'n run device.
-If u can cloak u shouldn't be able to have thick armor with lots of protection.
-Just take Star Trek as example, where the cloaking ships are (mostly) very agile ones, ballancing out the forces.
its fine the way it is, bss are ment to be uber unless the pilot is a rela elite, ccp shouldnt help to ballance this, besides bss do cost 1000 times as much as a frigate!
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"this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me.
I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist
OMG im a pretzel!!! |
Aron Wyx
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Posted - 2003.11.11 17:57:00 -
[100]
Having read only half of the posts above I don't know if anybody allready suggested this, but I think it would be nice if there were different types of cloaking devices corresponding to the different ship classes i.e. a frigate cloaking module (that required skill level 1) a cruiser cloaking module (requirering a skill level of 3) and an industrial and/or battleship cloaking module (that require skill level 5). Then the three different modules could have power and cpu requirements that were fitting for the ship classes and the effectiveness of the three types could be controlled seperately - in paticular the uncloaking delay and the detection range (both should be larger foe larger ships).
Just my thoughts anyway...
Aron Wyx |
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VILA Restal
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Posted - 2003.11.16 14:05:00 -
[101]
How about making the first cloaking modules available on Tranquility for frigates only?
It would make sense RP-wise, as the technology is new & would require more research and testing before cloaking devices for larger ships were developed.
It would also mean 'real' testing would be able to be done, using more players than are currently using the test server. I feel it would then be easier for the devs to decide if the current set-up is unbalanced BEFORE giving the technology to the huge damage-dealing monstrosity that is a battleship.
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Ordo Abchao
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Posted - 2003.11.18 05:16:00 -
[102]
Quote:
How about making the first cloaking modules available on Tranquility for frigates only?
It would make sense RP-wise, as the technology is new & would require more research and testing before cloaking devices for larger ships were developed.
It would also mean 'real' testing would be able to be done, using more players than are currently using the test server. I feel it would then be easier for the devs to decide if the current set-up is unbalanced BEFORE giving the technology to the huge damage-dealing monstrosity that is a battleship.
I would think it would be the opposite as new technologies usualy start as monstrosities and then get miniturized.
Order out of Chaos |
Blueblooded
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Posted - 2003.11.19 01:39:00 -
[103]
I have a few opinions on some general issues regarding cloaking.
* First I think that an advanced cloaking mechanism should be able to fool the ship scanners. In order to uncloak a ship you should need some kind of uncloaking device with equal (but not nessesary the same) disadvantages.
* I think that logicaly a small ship should be easier to cloak then a large ship, i.e the cloaking module should be ship class specific, perheps with greater disadvantages for lager ship classes.
* If cloaking should be a offencive weapon it could require a high slot, but it "feels" more lika a med slot kind of module, used as a sort of shield or protection.
* I think that the skill requirements to fit a cloaking device shouldn't be so high, I would like to say that the skill investment should be like shield harderners or less but I also realy would like some kind of "advanced cloaking operation" witch reduces the penalies for a much higher skill investment.
* Locking while cloaking should be disabled, at least without any passive targeting modules.
It would be a neet feature if you could lock with passive targeting and use ship/cargo scanners in order to spy on other ships or maby you could use other modules aswell (i.e weapons) since the penaly greatly reduces the combat capabilitys anyway. Ofcurse you should be instanly uncloaked when fireing or using any other offencive weapons(i.e EW).
* Disapearing from local while cloaked should not be alowed. Hiding your ship from beeing seen is hardly the same thing as not transmitting any signals. I could agree if all chatt windows were closed since then the cloaked ship then has no communiction. But then again, cloaking only make the ship disapear right?
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well this was my humble opinion.
Cloaking, if implemented in a good way, could be great and probebly improve the combat experience.
This should be fun 
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"The royal blood is blue, hence my name"
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Kunming
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Posted - 2003.11.20 01:52:00 -
[104]
I think there is a difference between cloaking and phase shifting...
Everyone thinks that the cloaking device in EVE is a phase cloaker.
The cloaking device in EVE can be seen as the stealth feature of the RL bombers and fighters. (eg. F-117) U know its there but u just cant locate it, and if u get close enough u gonna see it!
A phasing device is a more futuristic one; putting the ship (material) in to a sub-space bubble, making it unable to get affected by the normal universe. Ofcourse its discusable for how long a ship can stay in this state and/or should there be scanners that scan the space fabric for sub-space changes.
So my last word on this is dont expect this to be of too much use for PvP or "running", just another tool for caldari pirates. I can already imagine ppl whining about it, and devs nerfing it even more, lol
Intercepting since BETA |
Nervar
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Posted - 2003.11.21 14:55:00 -
[105]
Well i finnaly got my ass on to chaos and tryed the cloacking device. My conclusion is: At its current state its uterly useless.
The speed shouldnt get nerfed and locking while cloacked should bee possible.
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What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
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Reiisha
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Posted - 2003.11.24 00:23:00 -
[106]
Hmm.... everyone just wants the cloaking device to be the ultimate pvp module it seems.....
*no cap drain*
*no speed reduce*
*targetting ability*
*"firing ability" while cloaked*
*invisibility/no invisibility in local*
In other words, not a single drawback?
I think this thread will go on for a little while :D
Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming! |
Drutort
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Posted - 2003.11.24 08:28:00 -
[107]
Quote:
Hmm.... everyone just wants the cloaking device to be the ultimate pvp module it seems.....
*no cap drain*
*no speed reduce*
*targetting ability*
*"firing ability" while cloaked*
*invisibility/no invisibility in local*
In other words, not a single drawback?
I think this thread will go on for a little while :D
its not about NO... its about NOT -100% stuff like that...
heck -50% in some areas is bad enough no they have to make it -100% in say sheilds? why not skill to make the negative or the penelties to go down a bit...
and im all for diff class cloaking as well... and for diff ships...
if you think about it it should be different item just like gun sizes for ships...
make cloaking have strengths and make it so that you could use a frig cloaking device on a BS but it would not work very well and could be detected very easy... and you would need a BS size cloaking to work right...
just like you can put a S gun on a BS even though it does dmg its quite weak vs a L gun and the range etc...
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Victor Mason
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:59:00 -
[108]
I think that they are great :D look forward to them on TQ :D no cap and no sheild is realist :D just fit Cap boosters :D
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Sasha D
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Posted - 2003.11.24 15:37:00 -
[109]
Greetings all,
it is certainly very heated up topic and so I decided to put some "oil into the fire". I sincerely hope that CCP/Polaris/GM reads our postings.
I think as every technology cloack have to start from the beginning.
I am a newbie into this game but developed few of the oppinions already. I thought that pseudo cloack already existed in form of sensor units until a friend of mine proved me wrong. It appears at current moment sensor units is only to determine a sensor strenght for jamming/antijamming purposes. My original thought was sensor strenght was (or may be itshould be ;) defnied by actually seeing the ship (rectangle) on the screen. Let say my sensor strenght is 16 that mean I can see a human ship rectangle at 130km but can not target it tough. THe less sensor unit strenght the closer distance for the ship to be detected. In another words may be the need for cloack can be introduced by "fixing" or "modifiying" sensor units. Cause now for example to jam the ship the ship's sensor strenght have to be reduced to a 0 or negative. It all makes sense but please correct me if I am wrong the sensor unit is not really a dynamic variable at the current state of the game. May be the approach it is just a bit "phased out" so to speak. :) I think what we have been discussing as "cloack" should be at least 4-5 new skills and many many more items. And I think CCP should not "roll up" this technology but leave something for the future updates and our non human intelligence which I have a gut feeling eventually will be introduced into this universe. :) The sensor units I think have to become dynamic variable instead of static. Which will add another side into the game which is not actual cloacking but would spice up the game tremendously. Again I played this game for close to 2 months so still may be wrong on it. Let say there is a modules multisensor backups they really do NOT do anything except protect ship from potential jamming instead of increasing ship's actual sensor strenght - in my mind it is equals ability to see ships from a particular distance make them being visible to the sensors. Let say we can make each sensro unit equals to 7km-8km of vision or ability SEEING the ship not locking it up only seeing it the form of rectangle on the screen. That would create a lot of situations where one ship wth lesser sensor strenght will not be able to see a ship at the dsitance with higher sensor strenght. AT this point from reports of my freinds in corporation and my own searches is not begin done this way. Each ship's rectangle disappeears after 138 km doesn't matter which ship frigate cruiser or BS. In another words sensor strenght connected only to jamming antijamming abilities instead of being ACTUAL dynamic variable. THan if that would be "fixed" it will give a waay more exciting possibilities where sensor backup modules will be not only installed for jaming and antijamming purposes but for ACTUAL increasing of ability of seeing ship in the form of rectangle on the screen than it makes only sense that bascially targeting boosters - or what has been called a sensor boosters will take care of actual ability to target ship. In my first days of playing this game I was soo sure that there is a difference between seeing ship (sensor units ECCM/ECM) and targeting ship (sensor boosters/sensor dampeners). IN the case of ecm/eccm will create a cases where ships approaching will be literally invisible to the other ships casue the difference between sensor strenghts. I would love to see it in the future patches.
Now there is such a thing as invisibility whic may be achieved or should be achieved by a few ways. First is simply "tricking" opponents sensors in assuming that opponent is not there. Right now I think sensor units is totally... well.... undeveloped. It is my understanding that even a ship with sensor strenght 1 will do all things regulary as a ship with sensor strenght 16 whic is a bit silly to me :) Under ideal circumstances ship that is away let say 80km from a ship should not be visible to a ship with sensor strenght 4 but should be visible with ship with sensor strenght 14 or 16. ( just example) That would create a case os... shall we call it "sensor cloacking". It is a bit risky but I think it is already bein implemented with NPC ships. I was flying a Maller in my early days and encountered Shansa's beast. After a lock Shansa disappeared from my screen completely. Literally... the cross has vanished.. than I engaged my eccm 2 points for all races low and behold suddenly cross for Shansa beast reappeared about 7km from me :) I was sooo sure he jammed me. I am not sure how right I am but this is a case of "cloacking" by cheating enemy sensors. Does it makes sense? BUt I don't think the same code is implemented for PVP cases. Only NPC cases. Again please correct me if I am wrong but I am still slightly confused about whole thing named cloacking.
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Sasha D
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Posted - 2003.11.24 15:46:00 -
[110]
Now there is may be another way of cloack more authentic way of cloack is by using ( I don't know a better way of putting it) a gravimetric cloack/magnetometric cloakc/light cloakc (against ladars) and radio cloack. This type of cloack will work agasinst certain sensors types casue they are sooo very different in it's characteristics. So we may have a race specific cloacks with a different strenght and different properties. Let CPP introduce some rare pirate cloack devices. Let say a left overs of technology Jovia empire left before it passed trough that blackhole in no return region. I think imagination is our best friend here :) The idea behind sensor types was sooo cool for a different races. I think CCP should expand this idea. Now there is should be also a multirace cloacks that is very rare and can be taken only from 50-60k ships and pirate battelships that will appear in teh future. I believe a future introduction of non human intelligence or development of the story in regard to Jovians will give us a possibility of meeting a totally new type of cloakc. A transdimensional subatomic accelerator that will give a ship and it's crew within magnetic grid containment field to get out of phase so to speak with current space and time continuum. Only non human intelligence that iwll be later introduced into the game <that is my gut feeling> should posses such a technology. Also how which ship can be subatomicaly accelerated should be define by the race. ANd let say to ahve from 5 to 10 different levels of acceleration. The last method would allow ship simply to pass trough the matter and it can not be detected by any tech available currently. THat would be cool.
Now to get down to Earth so to speak :)
I hope first which sensor cheating level of cloacking will be fixed by CCP. Second cloacking device should have a few skill books for it. FIrstly cloacking device should be race specific and the most rare ones can be obtained from 50-60k spawns. These ones will be multiracial and even these ones should have few types available. Let's make it really interesting. :) The skills are.. let say:
1. Cloack operation - the skill will have 5 levels and will require Engineering level4 and Electronics level4 will give a cap points .
2. Cloack containment field efficiency - the skill will have 5 levels and will require navigation level 4 and engineering level 4 and Electronics level4 will grant a speed as to how fast ship will go without loosing it's cloack cause obviously speed will be destabilizing factor on the cloack.
3. Frigate Cloack - the skill will have 5 levels
the skill will be absollutely to maintain a cloack within a prticular range of the nearby ships. The higher sill the closer ship can get to the near by ships without being noticed
4.Cruiser cloack (same things for cruisers)
5. BS cloack coack (same things for BS)
6. Titan cloack (same things for titans)
Obviously it is not how I thing it "should be". It is just food for thought for al to concider deveopers included.
THere is another thing that pops into my mind is a comment I heard about disbalance between BS and frigates. I personally do not see any disbalance. Battleships cost like 57 mil up to a 100 mil. PEOple have to put a LOT of work even to get to that level. SO I think there is no disbalance. I had to mine 12 hours a day for 3 weeks even to get to the cruiser level. I think some of the experienced players in Eve forgetting how tough sometimes it can be for a noobs to advance in this game :) SO who ever drives cruisers and battelships... the way I see it as driving mercedes XLR :) Yeah it takes a lot of time to get there.. but it is well earned and heey what if person looses BS it is a huuuuge loss for many but a few very very veyr rich people in eve. :) The platinukm insuracne for BS costs like 30 million isk. lol... :)
OK I will wrap up this post. Sasha. CEO of OMega Technologies.
p.s. Few days ago we lost an Appoc to mister "TANK CEO". :) THat is a huuuge loss and it takes us a while economically to recover. So if U ask me ships are very well balanced. ANd draw back of battleships? It is not how powerfull they are but PIRCE PRICE and again PRICE :) I been playing this game for 2 months and still driving a cruiser and do not plan go on BS level not for another month or so.
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Sedsiss
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Posted - 2003.11.25 06:10:00 -
[111]
I've been play testing with cloaks for a week now, and have a scorpion which can uncloak, lockdown+jam + kill. It is a great module, but you need a high level cloak skill to counteract the horrible speed penalty (horrible as in cloaking without it drops you to around 12m/s in a bb, which does suck, but is balanced). With cap injectors i can regains all my cap in under 2.5 seconds, which is when i get lock and lockdown.
The cloaks DOES need to remove you from the local bar, it was stated before that it would and to back track would be making them gimped. Whats the point of cloaking if they know your there? |
xeno calligan
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Posted - 2003.11.25 09:46:00 -
[112]
Edited by: xeno calligan on 25/11/2003 09:47:25
Quote:
The cloaks DOES need to remove you from the local bar, it was stated before that it would and to back track would be making them gimped. Whats the point of cloaking if they know your there?
Indeed. And it should be possible to warp while cloaked too. Otherwise cloaking is only good for ambush and escaping (sort of, anyway).
If you use cloaking to attack, you currently have to warp to the location uncloaked and then cloak. I bet they'll be really surprised when your BS decloaks a few km from the warp-in point a few minutes later. And I bet they'll be really surprised to see that you're still in the same ship.
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Sasha D
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Posted - 2003.11.25 12:25:00 -
[113]
Heey everybody,
sorry for my a ittle "disjointed post" I been playin Eve for like 20 hours and was literaly falling to sleep..
Yup... people HAVE to be removed from local list or... should be given an option to connect to inner system network or not. It actually should be people's choice with coack or without cloack. I may want to maintain "broadcast silence" or may want to participate in inner system local network. It would be keewl if CCP could make it like this: If you type something in local chat it will automatically hook U up to local network otherwise there is always should be an option to be listed or not to be listed. I never could understand from the first day I played this "local chat" thing. If somebody needs to scout or find somebody send frigate scouts or spies and investigate. It is a sensor's job on the contrary "local chat" job. Local chat is just too easy of finding people in the system. That would make game I think more tactically diverse and heey let's keep map statistics for people who really wanna dig so to speak. 
To go back directly at cloack issue... ABSOLUTELY.... people with cloack should not even be given an option to be connected to local chat or disconnected from it. They should be disconnected automatically at a time when cloack has been engaged. However.. U typed something U get appeared in local chat. Actually frigates are excellent tool for scouting but heey I am pretty sure it is not used 90% of a time. It is enough simply to get a noob alt and get a waaay more detailed results about the system ad people in it than a scout.
As I said from a first day I started playing eve never could understand this "local" thing. To know where all people in a whole system that is in space with presumption that system may have populated planets with billions and billions of people. .... No comment.
I am looking forward very much for this module to appear in game 
Sasha D, CEO of Omega Technologies
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Gan Ning
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Posted - 2003.11.27 10:16:00 -
[114]
Quote:
How about making the first cloaking modules available on Tranquility for frigates only?
I would support that, gives them more purpose.
Or alternatively how about changing cloaking so that the bigger the ship is the longer it takes to cloak? |
Inquisitus
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Posted - 2003.11.27 22:47:00 -
[115]
Yeah, they HAVE to remove cloaked people from the local chat, and it must be possible to warp while cloaked, otherwise they're gonna know you're there anyway 
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DarK
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Posted - 2003.11.28 05:57:00 -
[116]
Skill at using Cloaking devices. 20% per level bonus to cloaked velocity
How is the bonus calculated?
so if for example my ship can go at 300m/s, and i cloak I will be going 30m/s. If i have lvl4 cloaking would it be 30*1.8 = 54 ?
Or does it lessen the penalty of the device itself?
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MyZteRio
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Posted - 2003.11.28 12:04:00 -
[117]
If only frigates and cruisers would be able to cloak that would make more sense to use these.
If BS cannot it would make people choose lower ships above only the biggest.
How are u going to cloak something as big as a BS anyway.
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A virtual Life takes 1/2 a lifetime, if it's worth living. |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.11.29 06:31:00 -
[118]
Quote:
I've been play testing with cloaks for a week now, and have a scorpion which can uncloak, lockdown+jam + kill.
...because scorps are so underpowered already. i especially like how you overcome all the "penalties" in 2.5 seconds...
and the counter to cloaking is...? And it will be introduced after how many ships are destroyed with no defense?
I'm starting to think the tech introductions are designed to be moneysinks and nothing else. Warpjammers before WCS, webifiers and still no countermodule as promised, etc.... and midslots still rule the day.
As fun as this all sounds, there's lots more to do as far as real work in sustainable content, mechanics, and the storyline, before i'm gonna be overjoyed about a pretty trinket to wow us natives. I assure you, the dazzle of the effect will wear off after the screaming starts.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Azure Skyclad
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Posted - 2003.11.30 04:18:00 -
[119]
Reel this back some and implement a more realistic system for sensor use then cloaking can become and extension of it rather than a bolt on which has little to do with sensors at all.
(thats a long sentence i know. It's 4am though )
La Maison de tous Les Plaisirs
Star Fraction
http://www.voodoorockers.co.uk/ |
Buddrow
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Posted - 2003.12.04 02:55:00 -
[120]
good god, cloaking is pretty well balanced as i see it. its just not for every setup and requires alot of compensation. while yes there should be some more features at least TESTED with it im not so sure they should make it with the modual yet.
warping should be possible with cloak... but that then requiers cap adjustment, cause if its a 0 your not warping far.
other than that some of you need to be creative with your setups. projectiles don't use energy.... armor can be tanked out. there is alot of options. they just require ALOT of sacrificing.
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"Give me but one firm spot on which to stand, and I will move earth."
Archimedes c.287 - 212 BC
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