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saltrock0000
Obsessive Compulsive Disasters
9
   |
Posted - 2011.11.27 21:59:00 -
[91] - Quote
I will be as honest as i can.
Incursions you earn 10.5mil ISK per vanguard site. You can run a vanguard site in about 4minutes with a "blitz fleet". Getting into a blitz fleet isnt as easy as it sounds. You need contacts who regularly run these incursions, or to be in a specific channel for Xing up. These groups of people are a tight nit community within eve, and if you anoy them or break thier rules, be asured you wont be runnign with them in the future. Dont get me wrong theya re a cracking group of guys just have very strict rules.
Where people will be fast to say that incursions are awsome money, and yeah they can be, I'd also liek to point out that as easy as it is to make money it is to loose your ship ina incursion. You are relying on others to keep your ship alive, and not to mention competant FC's.
Alot of guys fly with multi billion ships, and it only takes a 1 griefer or a bad fleet to loose days/weeks of work. High payout high risk.
Also the more people who run them the more contested sites, and the less ISK you yourself will recieve.
So there it is. Incursion honesty. Take it as it is |
Cipher Jones
117
|
Posted - 2011.11.27 22:01:00 -
[92] - Quote
Daedalus Arcova wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Rellik B00n wrote:its completely obvious that incursions need a huge swing of the bat, asap.
in fairness to those of you trying desperately to claim that:
1.they dont make that much ISK
2.nullbears need to keep the hell out of highsec
3.incursions are difficult and complicated
4.other reasons
I would also be shouting to defend my trillion ISK income source if they tried to nerf it.
Doesnt change the fact it needs it. The point you are missing is that some people can make that money off of them, not everyone. Every single person can make money off missions. Big difference between 70 mil an hour 'for certain' and 120 mil an hour 'maybe'. As if 70 mil an hour is a mediocre income.
70 mil an hour blows ass tbh.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Daedalus Arcova
Havoc Violence and Chaos
BricK sQuAD.
193
|
Posted - 2011.11.27 22:11:00 -
[93] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:70 mil an hour blows ass tbh.
Yeah, you'd have to do that for 24 hours solid just to buy a single monocle. |
saltrock0000
Obsessive Compulsive Disasters
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.27 22:15:00 -
[94] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Zagdul wrote:
What you and so many people seem to miss is that null sec space needs to hold value for the solo, casual player to log in, make some isk and log out. The space itself needs to have that value OVER empire space not because we want more of you out here, simply because it's the basic principle of what EVE was built off of.
A solar system in null sec, no matter the security status should never be worth less for a solo, casual player to make an income than that of a .5 system that has the protection of Concord.
Ever.
Well that's the thing. Should solo PVE in nullsec pay more out per individual than group PVE in highsec? I'd say an attitude change is needed in nullsec by leaders. Too many times have I seen nullsec pilots in my fleets talk about how tired they are about the politics and bullshit out in nullsec. The endless CTA's, rules and just being overlooked. So is the problem reward? Or is the problem lying somewhere else completely?
Thats actualy a very good point |
Ulina Olmav
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.27 22:18:00 -
[95] - Quote
Rellik B00n wrote:its completely obvious that incursions need a huge swing of the bat, asap.
A huge nerf is not warrented, but toning down the rewards in highsec by some factor wouldn't be un-called for. About like nerfing gank insurance vs. removing the ability to gank in highsec for you fine fellows in the orphanage. |
Elson Tamar
Lion Investments
49
|
Posted - 2011.11.27 22:28:00 -
[96] - Quote
I dont fly them, but i hear that the engines of incursion fleets run on the tears of low and null sec. All i can har from the engine room is 'MOAR tears captain, we need MOAR'  |
Angus Thermopollye
Duct Tape Mechanics
NZAU Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.27 22:29:00 -
[97] - Quote
Sounds like everyone is arguing the issue of NERF High Sec or don't NERF High Sec Incursions. Here's a better idea....just buff null sec.
That being said, I'm a high sec Incursion runner but I've also lived in null a time or two. There needs to me a monetary reason to want to go out there for most people. Otherwise you'll just lose ships all the time and get discouraged. The place is constant war. You're likely to get jumped by anyone.
So yeah, BUFF null and I think things would equal back out. Put those anoms back to the way they used to be. That's just my two cents though. |
Cipher Jones
117
|
Posted - 2011.11.27 22:50:00 -
[98] - Quote
Daedalus Arcova wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:70 mil an hour blows ass tbh. Yeah, you'd have to do that for 24 hours solid just to buy a single monocle.
Right. It would take even longer than that doing incursions, unless you got in the winning fleet every time all day long.
Which is highly unlikely to happen repeatedly on a per capita basis.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Jita Alt666
575
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 00:31:00 -
[99] - Quote
Here is a cool way to have fun in high sec incursions:
Get 2+ alts running logistics. Join fleet with them. Circle jerk. Wait till DPS of site is at highest point. Log off.
|
mkint
394
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 01:14:00 -
[100] - Quote
Elson Tamar wrote:I dont fly them, but i hear that the engines of incursion fleets run on the tears of low and null sec. All i can har from the engine room is 'MOAR tears captain, we need MOAR'
Sshh nobodys suppose to know you can run a petrol engine on distilled water. Don't tell the nullbears that npc difficulty is inversely proportional to nullbear QQ. Soon my velator will omgwtfbbqsolopwn hq sites at a millions billions gazillions baconz per hours. |
Fearless M0F0
Incursion PWNAGE Asc
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 01:29:00 -
[101] - Quote
Ahhh the mythical 120m/hr ... 
I just put my weekend incursion results in a spreadsheet and got this:
On 11/23 I joined a blitz fleet and made 196m in 2 hrs, that's 98m/hr.
Yesterday I joined a blitz fleet with 2 off-grid boosters and maxed out, faction fitted legions and made 225m in 2 hrs, that's 112.5m/hr 
Today's fleet had some issues with people coming and going all the time, made 119m in 3 hr (39m/hr) 
There might be a handful of elite incursion runners out there able to make more than 120m/hr but I have yet to meet any. All I know is I ended totally burned out running that blitz fleet for 2 hrs. I am not sure anybody can keep that pace up...
You might make 120m/hr running incursions but for that you have to:
- Fly a maxed out Legion fitted with faction/officer/deadspace mods.
- Find 8 other Legion pilots with same fit and experience running incursions.
- Find a couple of really good logistic pilots.
- Find a couple of off-grid boosters
- Find a quiet vanguard system with never ending stream of NCOs
Imho, 120m/hr is an edge case. I would say the average is about half of that. |
Cipher Jones
117
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 01:38:00 -
[102] - Quote
Fearless M0F0 wrote:Ahhh the mythical 120m/hr ... I just put my weekend incursion results in a spreadsheet and got this: On 11/23 I joined a blitz fleet and made 196m in 2 hrs, that's 98m/hr. Yesterday I joined a blitz fleet with 2 off-grid boosters and maxed out, faction fitted legions and made 225m in 2 hrs, that's 112.5m/hr Today's fleet had some issues with people coming and going all the time, made 119m in 3 hr (39m/hr) There might be a handful of elite incursion runners out there able to make more than 120m/hr but I have yet to meet any. All I know is I ended totally burned out running that blitz fleet for 2 hrs. I am not sure anybody can keep that pace up... You might make 120m/hr running incursions but for that you have to: - Fly a maxed out Legion fitted with faction/officer/deadspace mods. - Find 8 other Legion pilots with same fit and experience running incursions. - Find a couple of really good logistic pilots. - Find a couple of off-grid boosters - Find a quiet vanguard system with never ending stream of NCOs Imho, 120m/hr is an edge case. I would say the average is about half of that.
77 mil an hour. It seems only people who have not run incursions think they need nerfed. It seems you are right on par with mission running.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians
Blazing Angels Alliance
143
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 01:40:00 -
[103] - Quote
Fearless M0F0 wrote:
There might be a handful of elite incursion runners out there able to make more than 120m/hr but I have yet to meet any.
Oh, me me! We managed to do 15 sites once... we were extremely lucky though. 
quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
mkint
394
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 01:46:00 -
[104] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Fearless M0F0 wrote:Ahhh the mythical 120m/hr ... I just put my weekend incursion results in a spreadsheet and got this: On 11/23 I joined a blitz fleet and made 196m in 2 hrs, that's 98m/hr. Yesterday I joined a blitz fleet with 2 off-grid boosters and maxed out, faction fitted legions and made 225m in 2 hrs, that's 112.5m/hr Today's fleet had some issues with people coming and going all the time, made 119m in 3 hr (39m/hr) There might be a handful of elite incursion runners out there able to make more than 120m/hr but I have yet to meet any. All I know is I ended totally burned out running that blitz fleet for 2 hrs. I am not sure anybody can keep that pace up... You might make 120m/hr running incursions but for that you have to: - Fly a maxed out Legion fitted with faction/officer/deadspace mods. - Find 8 other Legion pilots with same fit and experience running incursions. - Find a couple of really good logistic pilots. - Find a couple of off-grid boosters - Find a quiet vanguard system with never ending stream of NCOs Imho, 120m/hr is an edge case. I would say the average is about half of that. 77 mil an hour. It seems only people who have not run incursions think they need nerfed. It seems you are right on par with mission running.
Indeed. I think the longest I've had the 120 pace might have been 30 minutes. Incursions are a major grind. The top 10ers I have no idea how they have that stamina. I can usually handle one or two days every third incursion. Logis never get a break once in a fleet. Fcs don't like to let their logis go home. |
Daedalus Arcova
Havoc Violence and Chaos
199
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 10:19:00 -
[105] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Daedalus Arcova wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:70 mil an hour blows ass tbh. Yeah, you'd have to do that for 24 hours solid just to buy a single monocle. Right. It would take even longer than that doing incursions, unless you got in the winning fleet every time all day long. Which is highly unlikely to happen repeatedly on a per capita basis.
I think you should run some checks on your monocle's irony sensor. I think it might be malfunctioning. |
Florestan Bronstein
The Waterworks
181
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 10:27:00 -
[106] - Quote
Fearless M0F0 wrote:
You might make 120m/hr running incursions but for that you have to:
- Fly a maxed out Legion fitted with faction/officer/deadspace mods.
- Find 8 other Legion pilots with same fit and experience running incursions.
- Find a couple of really good logistic pilots.
- Find a couple of off-grid boosters
- Find a quiet vanguard system with never ending stream of NCOs
or just
- do 0.0 Incursions and enjoy 43% larger rewards for exactly the same work. |
Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
42
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 10:45:00 -
[107] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Fearless M0F0 wrote:Ahhh the mythical 120m/hr ... I just put my weekend incursion results in a spreadsheet and got this: On 11/23 I joined a blitz fleet and made 196m in 2 hrs, that's 98m/hr. Yesterday I joined a blitz fleet with 2 off-grid boosters and maxed out, faction fitted legions and made 225m in 2 hrs, that's 112.5m/hr Today's fleet had some issues with people coming and going all the time, made 119m in 3 hr (39m/hr) There might be a handful of elite incursion runners out there able to make more than 120m/hr but I have yet to meet any. All I know is I ended totally burned out running that blitz fleet for 2 hrs. I am not sure anybody can keep that pace up... You might make 120m/hr running incursions but for that you have to: - Fly a maxed out Legion fitted with faction/officer/deadspace mods. - Find 8 other Legion pilots with same fit and experience running incursions. - Find a couple of really good logistic pilots. - Find a couple of off-grid boosters - Find a quiet vanguard system with never ending stream of NCOs Imho, 120m/hr is an edge case. I would say the average is about half of that. 77 mil an hour. It seems only people who have not run incursions think they need nerfed. It seems you are right on par with mission running.
100m an hour is about normal with a relatively good fleet, if it get really crowded(130 in local or so) you drop to 75ish just on site competiton.
Still you are lucking out with the mission spread if you close to 75/hr doing level IV counting travel.....I mean if you have 4 agents offering AE's and Blockades right on top of each you MIGHT pull 60mil and hour....not counting LP because, because that takes a while to collect the tags and sell items without have a deal worked out of a market buddy doing it for you.
Level IVs are a poor comparison. |
Rellik B00n
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
37
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 11:09:00 -
[108] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Fearless M0F0 wrote:
Imho, 120m/hr is an edge case. I would say the average is about half of that.
77 mil an hour. It seems only people who have not run incursions think they need nerfed. It seems you are right on par with mission running. 100m an hour is about normal with a relatively good fleet, if it get really crowded(130 in local or so) you drop to 75ish just on site competiton. Level IVs are a poor comparison.
Agree with Onictus:
they are a hugely poor comparison, there is a whole lot of convenient rounding up going on here.
I would hazard the average for missions is closer to 25 - 40m an hour. |
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 11:21:00 -
[109] - Quote
The payout is better than missions, which makes sense since it takes 10 people to do them.
However, I was relieved to start running Incursions simply because IT WASN'T MISSION RUNNING! I hate mission running. It's boring and lonesome. It was very nice to do stuff with other people for a change. Incursions get boring, sure. But not nearly as dull as solo-grinding missions.
I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 11:22:00 -
[110] - Quote
The main issue is that due to easily researched incursion mechanics. It has become almost risk free to bring in ships worth multi billions that can do insane DPS.
And the growth of such ships is such that if you try to form up with other types of ships such as a raven. You will not get invites.
The "nerf" needs to be in a major adjustment in the risk factor. There needs to be times where losing a ship or two and having to abort is just bad luck running into a harder than expected site. That will get people to slow using Hyper DPS craft to complete these sites so fast. |
David Carel
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
160
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 11:40:00 -
[111] - Quote
I make at least 90m/h in lowsec with a bad fleet (hurricanes/harbingers/people not paying attention) but roughly 150m/h with a good fleet (Legions/Absos/etc).
And I usually quadbox.
Heh. |
David Carel
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
160
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 11:40:00 -
[112] - Quote
Oh yes I'm doing incursions in lowsec obviously |
David Carel
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
160
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 11:41:00 -
[113] - Quote
Or nullsec for that matter. |
Tore Vest
Vikinghall
81
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 11:55:00 -
[114] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:The main issue is that due to easily researched incursion mechanics. It has become almost risk free to bring in ships worth multi billions that can do insane DPS.
And the growth of such ships is such that if you try to form up with other types of ships such as a raven. You will not get invites.
The "nerf" needs to be in a major adjustment in the risk factor. There needs to be times where losing a ship or two and having to abort is just bad luck running into a harder than expected site. That will get people to slow using Hyper DPS craft to complete these sites so fast.
I can see that you have never run a incursion...
So... stop speculating
You should try incursion some day
|
David Carel
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
160
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 12:00:00 -
[115] - Quote
Heh we lost a Legion yesterday, went from full armor to death in a single tick.
CCP hates us. |
Tore Vest
Vikinghall
81
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 12:06:00 -
[116] - Quote
I got my well tanked loki instapoped in a mom site....  |
TharOkha
0asis Group
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 12:10:00 -
[117] - Quote
Why do people complain about something that never tryed? Yes in theory you can make 120-150m/hr doing incursions. Also you can make billions by trading....in theory. You can make hundred of milions by ratting in null... in theory.
With pimped blitz fleet, where T2 is minimum (faction and officer fits are welcome), you can make around 100m/hr, BUT, you need multi-billion ship which are juicy targets for gankers (risk vs reward?) because no good blitz fleet will fleet you . 120-150m/hr are very, very, very rare.
Also in prime time its realy hard to find empty incursion sites. They are overcrowded and earnings are 50-60m/hr.
While L4 dont has limits, incursions has. There are limited number of sites and they has some respawn timer.
So while, 1000 pilots can make unlimited isk by doing L4s with no competition, that same number of pilots can make only limited isks by doing incursions, because of limitations and competition.
Incursions will never give you more isks than their limit.
GÇ£Reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
yumike
Eve of Madness
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 12:23:00 -
[118] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:
The fact that you can rat in complete safety in empire and make just as much isk per hour hitting your wallet plus loyalty points and salvage with less logistics and risk involved. EVE has always been designed where risk = reward. As it stands, empire is a safer and better source of income over null for a grunt. They really have no benefit for living in space they fight to hold.
EDIT: However this will change a bit when alliances like mine add perks like 0% tax for PI.
I feel inclined to point out that, In null they pay out considerably more.. in both isk and LP.
And like anything in highsec, fleets are suicide ganked all the time in a sea of neutrals and lost due to mistakes because for most fleets they really aren't that easy.
Yes to a really trained group that is paying attention with a good FC and scout we can make really good isk/hr (in the 120m/hr range, I would know I hit that range for two non consecutive hours yesterday.)
Arguably as always it's almost safer in null at times because at least you can see your enemies coming. Maybe you will get out in time, maybe not but that goes for highsec as well.
Long story short, Neither highsec nor nullsec is overpowered/underpowered. They are Different
I do however agree with the person above who was talking about why concord doesn't take the break off it doesn't make sense rp rubbish yadda yadda. But then if you follow this logical path, No pve should exist in highsec at all. Little dinky frigate gangs for level 1's? Nope you warp in and concord should show up to take it out for ya. Level 4? nope.. All pve content will become vs faction in the future with 0 payout? I'd imagine half the pve population of highsec would dissappear overnight (And not to lowsec, most likely to hello kitty online which has had some amazing changes lately)
While I agree with your premise, it is ultimately flawed.
|
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
83
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 12:45:00 -
[119] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Why do people complain about something that never tryed? Yes in theory you can make 120-150m/hr doing incursions. Also you can make billions by trading....in theory. You can make hundred of milions by ratting in null... in theory.
With pimped blitz fleet, where T2 is minimum (faction and officer fits are welcome), you can make around 100m/hr, BUT, you need multi-billion ship which are juicy targets for gankers (risk vs reward?) because no good blitz fleet will fleet you . 120-150m/hr are very, very, very rare.
Also in prime time its realy hard to find empty incursion sites. They are overcrowded and earnings are 50-60m/hr.
While L4 dont has limits, incursions has. There are limited number of sites and they has some respawn timer.
So while, 1000 pilots can make unlimited isk by doing L4s with no competition, that same number of pilots can make only limited isks by doing incursions, because of limitations and competition.
Incursions will never give you more isks than their limit.
thats how forums works.
viz lvl IV too rewarding.
Null sec not accessible
etc.
one problem tho with incustions / aka CONCORD LP
They can be changed to faction corp LP, which significantly undermine any mission running whores. Like me. Currently got over 2 mil facation corp LP and the exchange rate is ****** up. |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
130
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 13:19:00 -
[120] - Quote
40-60M/hr. Is entirely possible doing 4s. I actually am that OCD about bookeeping. That's 1:40 doing 4-6 missions then a quick 20 in the Noctis. This is without LP which I calculate seperately. And when we talk about creative rounding let's include jumps to your incursion system and time spent finding a fleet. Again incursions do pay better. But there is somke creative accounting going on here. If I were to make one major complaint about them it is that hi sec incursions at least have become an 'in' crowd of overpriced fits. So the incursion runners we have today are likely the only ones we will see for some time.
90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed. |
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