Again, there is one (well, actually, there's more than one if you put the time & effort in). Suggest all you null sec dwellers try working together for a change, just like the high sec pubbies

The main issue is that due to easily researched incursion mechanics. It has become almost risk free to bring in ships worth multi billions that can do insane DPS.

And the growth of such ships is such that if you try to form up with other types of ships such as a raven. You will not get invites.

The "nerf" needs to be in a major adjustment in the risk factor. There needs to be times where losing a ship or two and having to abort is just bad luck running into a harder than expected site. That will get people to slow using Hyper DPS craft to complete these sites so fast.

40-60M/hr. Is entirely possible doing 4s. I actually am that OCD about bookeeping. That's 1:40 doing 4-6 missions then a quick 20 in the Noctis. This is without LP which I calculate seperately. And when we talk about creative rounding let's include jumps to your incursion system and time spent finding a fleet. Again incursions do pay better. But there is somke creative accounting going on here. If I were to make one major complaint about them it is that hi sec incursions at least have become an 'in' crowd of overpriced fits. So the incursion runners we have today are likely the only ones we will see for some time.

Ahhh the mythical 120m/hr ...

I just put my weekend incursion results in a spreadsheet and got this:

On 11/23 I joined a blitz fleet and made 196m in 2 hrs, that's 98m/hr.
Yesterday I joined a blitz fleet with 2 off-grid boosters and maxed out, faction fitted legions and made 225m in 2 hrs, that's 112.5m/hr
Today's fleet had some issues with people coming and going all the time, made 119m in 3 hr (39m/hr)

There might be a handful of elite incursion runners out there able to make more than 120m/hr but I have yet to meet any. All I know is I ended totally burned out running that blitz fleet for 2 hrs. I am not sure anybody can keep that pace up...

You might make 120m/hr running incursions but for that you have to:
- Fly a maxed out Legion fitted with faction/officer/deadspace mods.
- Find 8 other Legion pilots with same fit and experience running incursions.
- Find a couple of really good logistic pilots.
- Find a couple of off-grid boosters
- Find a quiet vanguard system with never ending stream of NCOs

Imho, 120m/hr is an edge case. I would say the average is about half of that.

Actually the risk is as easy as blinking, just yesterday I was temporarily FCing a fleet into an OTA site when a shield fleet came in to contest. they won the site but lost a faction fitted shield Bhaalgorn

In a mission, you can kill tacklers and gtfo if things are not going your way. Inside an incursion site, all it takes is for a logistics pilot to blink...

Running incursions take your full attention every second you are inside the site. Rats shift their primary in a blink just like real pvp fleets do. Is not like some LVL 4 missions where you can warp-in your domi, release drones and go for a coffee

the same case for sleeper but I see no wh dweller complain about it and they dont even consider it's risk??
the pay out in wh after split isnt much greater than incursion

What definition of risk are you using then? Is the chance of your ship exploding not a risk just because its from an NPC and not a player?

Correct. When you know exactly what is in a site and how to avoid triggers, and are backed up by a handful of logistics, fighting predicable enemies, then the risk of your ship exploding is pretty damn low unless you're a moron.

Ah right. So when people say highsec Incursions have "zero risk", they actually mean "low risk assuming a decently knowledgeable and competent group of players".

2. You made 100m a day. How many hours atk did that take. Also, l4 missions have always made 50-70m isk/hr depending on how well you trade your lp for your atk isk making pleasure.

4. There are easier ways to make more isk. Try to find them. Hint: Isk Faucets are limited, try instead to make isk eddy and pool in your wallet.

What definition of risk are you using then? Is the chance of your ship exploding not a risk just because its from an NPC and not a player?

No creative accounting, you can run 9 vangards in an hour easily each vangard pays 10.7 mil for the proper sized fleet.

Do I really need to do that math.

The payouts for those sites generally go to the 2 or 3 badass, well-run fleets.

Ah right. So when people say highsec Incursions have "zero risk", they actually mean "low risk assuming a decently knowledgeable and competent group of players".

Ok so say you do that for 3 hours. That's just under 300. Of course did you magically log on in the system where it spawned? Or did youh spend 20 minutes jumping out there? Was there a fleet just waiting for you to arrive and not running the incursions while you were in transit? Or is there another 20 minutes finding a fleet? So roough math 40 mins round trip travel plus 20 mins finding fleet means 4 hours to earn just under 300 or a little over 70 an hour. Note better than running missions. Apparently I did have to do the math for you...

Ok so say you do that for 3 hours. That's just under 300. Of course did you magically log on in the system where it spawned? Or did youh spend 20 minutes jumping out there? Was there a fleet just waiting for you to arrive and not running the incursions while you were in transit? Or is there another 20 minutes finding a fleet? So roough math 40 mins round trip travel plus 20 mins finding fleet means 4 hours to earn just under 300 or a little over 70 an hour. Note better than running missions. Apparently I did have to do the math for you...

with an average ship value of 500m isk - MINIMUM.

So I recently took advantage of the $5 resub offer to see how the game has changed in the last 12 months and have read in some posts that you can earn as much as 120m isk per hour running iskursions??? Seriously CCP, why? I used to manage a trading corporation that made 100m per day. But now I can earn 1b isk if I dedicate a weekend to iskursions. What is the point of every other occupation in Eve Online if iskursions blow them out of the water?

Are you ******* serious?

Bouncing around ONE system and getting a 10.7 mil hit EVERY 6-7 minutes is ALWAYS going to be faster than running level 4s there is a hell of a lot less set up, NO missions sending you two jumps away, NO going back for agents, no "crap I don't have the right ammo"

I don't pickup incursions, the fleet is set and rarely stops until the FC decides he's bored, and maybe a 10 minute break so people can bio.

I can care bear it up TRUST me level 4s are absolutely a poor isk.hr comarison, EVEN if I have to make 22 jumps to go from where I live to where the incursion is I'll come out ahead EVERY time in time to isk ratio, no smoke and no bulls!tting.

Try it.

The difference being that one player's station trading profit is just ISK that other players have spent. Incursions, on the other hand, are massive ISK fountains. They create ISK out of nothing, and are fuelling inflation. It's a cruder equivalent of Quantitative Easing.

Highsec incursions need a massive nerf, either to put their ISK/hr on par or below L4 highsec missions, or to make them truly dynamic (and therefore far less easy to farm). It's unlikely to happen though, as that might lead to fewer players using a feature that CCP dedicated an entire expansion to.

Besides, I wouldn't have met any of the people I pvp with if it weren't for incursions. I think the introduction of incursions was brilliant. It funds more pvp, and brings people that wouldn't normally associate with eachother together. It was a great addition imo.

+1, my thoughts in a nutshell. Before incursions, there was moaning about a lack of group PVE content; after Incursions, they're whining how the group PVE content is, heaven forbid, profitable and enjoyable.

I suppose it is possible I missed something in my numbers. I was in fact assuming there were a limited number of vangaurds available and so it would be likely that many of them were fully staffed when you got online. So are you so uber that they kick someone from fleet within minutes of you xing up? Or does the fleet wait around for your august presence to dain to log? Otherwise I would suppose there is a certain amount of down time. Oh by the way Soi seems to think you are some noob who can only run 9 in an hour But sure I can take your suggestion and try it. Care to put a little isk where your mouth is? We can put 100M on it, small change for a baller like yourself. Send me a fit in the 1/2 B range and I will spend 2 hours trying to run incursions with it. Your pick I likely have a toon that can fly it. I'll be fair and take a weekday. You win I am out 600M total. I'll be really fair and wait for a week after the update so we wont have to consider either extended downtime rush or weekend rush. Just a stopwatch. when I start, and wallet balance when I am done.

Its not my fault

A) You don't know any FC's
B) Don't have a corp that does (for reference mine has 3 that can run vans, and there aren't many of us)
c) Can't get 10 people together that can tag and remember to kill the narij, scheaml, and tama usually more or less in that
order

Either way I can't be arsed to do your homework for you AND find you a fit. o/