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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6352
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Posted - 2015.07.10 07:18:14 -
[4951] - Quote
Zoya Talvanen wrote:Erase the grey areas... Masterful use of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. EFT, Pyffa, EVEMon, wonderful straw men. The post is polemic, vehement, repetitive and artful. Why then am I unconvinced? Perhaps it is because you left out dotlan EVE maps and Eve-Survival and that online POS planner and http://www.ellatha.com/eve/T3.asp, no, that cannot be it. The examples you mention do not interact with the game client--they may draw information from the game but it is the human receiving the information who benefits in better planning his/her stratagems, or not. Not all the software is that good at its purpose and there may be corner cases or even whole, unanticipated scenarios that human creativity can discover. So there are tools, even tools you pay for that can create an advantage. The programmable calculator where you set up a collection of buy orders with information which you took from an EVE market is an example, and someone had to buy that calculator. In my case, I had to buy internet time to download Python or Pypy to write my own programs to plan my POS and to schedule my shipbuilding. Or I could have bought paper and pencil to do the same. But those are all straw men. I cannot denounce my own knowledge of advanced mathematics and refuse to use it because the habit is automatic. And I paid for that knowledge and understanding, with real money and my own struggle to comprehend. And that, too, is a straw man. All of those things I mentioned interact with the game to extract information and interact with me to allow me to (usually) improve my decisions about actions I will take. They DO NOT help me take those actions by interacting with the input of the game client. The point that he was making is that all those tools create an advantage which is the supposed reason this change was brought in. What was being stated is that any third party tool is banned if it given an advantage, whether you make it yourself of not. That you know how to write it is irrelevant. I could rewrite key broadcasting using nothing but excel scripts, that still wouldn't make it legal. I use hand built tools to manage my trading and manufacture. Without those tools there is absolutely no way I would be able to trade at the level I do. How is that any less of a tool-based advantage?
The real issue is though that this change was not because of some questionable unfairness in people's ability to control their alts, which is why this is completely allowed under the new rules (that's eve-o preview, and it's actually more efficient to use than isboxer in most cases). This was a passive attempt at nerfing bombers after a direct nerf was rejected by the crying masses. It didn't work, which is why they are taking a second stab at it by destroying fleet warp (which FYI will also fail).
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers Soviet-Union
371
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Posted - 2015.07.10 13:02:45 -
[4952] - Quote
the changes worked for me, i pretty much have stopped playing and unsubbed all my accounts save for a couple.
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Marsha Mallow
2349
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Posted - 2015.07.15 22:56:42 -
[4953] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:the changes worked for me, i pretty much have stopped playing and unsubbed all my accounts save for a couple.
op success
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: TO THE PITCHFORKMOBILE!
Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread
ISD Ezwal wrote: Nope, no one will get banned for 'rubbing'
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Johnny Riko
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2015.07.16 00:32:27 -
[4954] - Quote
What a complete embarrassment. If this happened to any other MMO there would be law suits. Sort yourself out CPP
I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
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ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers Soviet-Union
371
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Posted - 2015.07.16 12:02:39 -
[4955] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:ShadowandLight wrote:the changes worked for me, i pretty much have stopped playing and unsubbed all my accounts save for a couple.
op success
daily users are starting to fall below 30k on a regular basis, how long can this company survive with a staff reflecting 2013 but a player base that is 2006?
Legacy - An EVE Online Blog
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
197
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Posted - 2015.07.16 14:23:43 -
[4956] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:ShadowandLight wrote:the changes worked for me, i pretty much have stopped playing and unsubbed all my accounts save for a couple.
op success daily users are starting to fall below 30k on a regular basis, how long can this company survive with a staff reflecting 2013 but a player base that is 2006?
at the peak of summer, while there's major changes being made in the fall.
its known as the summer slump. |
Maenth
The Thirteen Provinces
16
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Posted - 2015.07.18 10:04:30 -
[4957] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:ShadowandLight wrote:the changes worked for me, i pretty much have stopped playing and unsubbed all my accounts save for a couple.
op success daily users are starting to fall below 30k on a regular basis, how long can this company survive with a staff reflecting 2013 but a player base that is 2006? If it's like that then 2006 people just need to grow up, and stop trying to make the best of broken systems that can't or won't be exploited equally by everybody
Johnny Riko wrote:What a complete embarrassment. If this happened to any other MMO there would be law suits. Sort yourself out CPP Apparently, they updated the EULA - which you agreed to - long before this thread, which described the input multiplexing as cheating. You should be thanking them for making a thread&announcement like this so you can react appropriately, instead of just weilding the banhammer against all of your accounts.
Drones. Drones are a means to an end. An end to the ruthless Caldari 'progress' machines. An end to the barbaric 'redemption' proposed by the Amarr. What they see as chaos shall be my perfect order, merely beyond their comprehension.
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Maenth
The Thirteen Provinces
16
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Posted - 2015.07.18 10:34:20 -
[4958] - Quote
The spirit of the ruling and CCP's position about all sorts of issues is very clear if people would just stop trying to worm their way around particular wordings and technicalities. It can be summarized in two points:
1) data collection along with the manipulation and presentation of that data is all fine and good 2) automated and augmented control in the game via non-human interaction with the EVE client is not acceptable in any way
This is really all you need to understand and know about the topic.
The rules about this have already been in place for a while so if you have a problem with it then that's your fault for not reading the EULA and learning about it sooner. If this were any other MMO then it would have been a lot more clear much sooner and they would have been harshly banning people for years already for all kinds of input multiplexing and botting. Anybody who is unhappy with this announcement should be thanking CCP for being so lenient on the matter and being so soft against offenders.
Drones. Drones are a means to an end. An end to the ruthless Caldari 'progress' machines. An end to the barbaric 'redemption' proposed by the Amarr. What they see as chaos shall be my perfect order, merely beyond their comprehension.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6386
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Posted - 2015.07.18 17:13:17 -
[4959] - Quote
Maenth wrote:The spirit of the ruling and CCP's position about all sorts of issues is very clear if people would just stop trying to worm their way around particular wordings and technicalities. It can be summarized in two points:
1) data collection along with the manipulation and presentation of that data is all fine and good 2) automated and augmented control in the game via non-human interaction with the EVE client is not acceptable in any way
This is really all you need to understand and know about the topic.
The rules about this have already been in place for a while so if you have a problem with it then that's your fault for not reading the EULA and learning about it sooner. If this were any other MMO then it would have been a lot more clear much sooner and they would have been harshly banning people for years already for all kinds of input multiplexing and botting. Anybody who is unhappy with this announcement should be thanking CCP for being so lenient on the matter and being so soft against offenders. Swing and a miss. This is the spirit of CCPs ruling:
We tried to fix bombers by nerfing bombers and everyone went nuts, so we stopped that and instead tried to nerf them by nerfing multiboxers. That didn't work either so now were going to fix them by nerfing fleet warp.
That's what all of this boils down to. With the exception of the 2 or 3 players who ran 50+ accounts, people are still multiboxing just as easily as ever. CCP have even given the OK to EVE-O preview which makes it ludicrously easy to control fleets of ships.
And no, the rules of this weren't in place which is why tickets had been raised by the users of ISBoxer and OKed for use. There was even a thread about it which stated that as long as a player had to click for each click, it didn't matter how many clients that hit. Further, your over simplistic summation of the rules above leave things like videoFX and round robin as legal sine they are in no way non-human interaction yet we now know them to be against the rules. It does amuse me so when someone with such profound lack of knowledge of either multiboxing software or CCPs reasons for implementing this change try to come in with their 2 cents. Please continue.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
1068
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Posted - 2015.07.19 16:27:20 -
[4960] - Quote
*pats Lucas' head* good boy.
Who in his right mind would want to ruin a perfect bell curve ??
Player Age Distribution; CCP Quant on reddit.
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ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
815
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Posted - 2015.07.19 23:15:36 -
[4961] - Quote
I have removed an off-topic/troll post.
Quote:5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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JustinD Snodgrass
Viper-Squad pwn-O-graphy
1
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Posted - 2015.07.23 17:36:16 -
[4962] - Quote
Am I allowed to assign an extra programmable button on my keyboard to F12 and use that to broadcast for shields? |
ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers Soviet-Union
372
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Posted - 2015.07.26 16:32:51 -
[4963] - Quote
JustinD Snodgrass wrote: Am I allowed to assign an extra programmable button on my keyboard to F12 and use that to broadcast for shields?
technically, no, its a macro even though its not anything more then a key re-assignment.
will you get in trouble for it? probably not unless you are caught on video or something using it.
sorry, its a crap answer but thats really how it is now.
Legacy - An EVE Online Blog
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Globby
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling CODE.
154
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Posted - 2015.07.27 19:23:19 -
[4964] - Quote
I'm glad these changes went through, definitely fixes the people who were botting and using this as a cover as well, so it's great to kill three birds with a single stone.
+1 CCP
Regards, Globby Soldier of the New Order | Liason to the Executor | CODE. Treasurer |
Sgt Ocker
Military Bustards FUBAR.
681
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Posted - 2015.07.27 22:02:42 -
[4965] - Quote
Globby wrote:I'm glad these changes went through, definitely fixes the people who were botting and using this as a cover as well, so it's great to kill three birds with a single stone.
+1 CCP
Regards, Globby Soldier of the New Order | Liason to the Executor | CODE. Treasurer Ahhh, the stupid never ceases to amuse.
PS; Being treasurer, I hope you better than math than your above comment would indicate. Although, it is Code,who cares.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode -
Vice Admiral, Forum Dictator
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6436
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Posted - 2015.07.28 07:44:47 -
[4966] - Quote
Globby wrote:I'm glad these changes went through, definitely fixes the people who were botting and using this as a cover as well, so it's great to kill three birds with a single stone.
+1 CCP
Regards, Globby Soldier of the New Order | Liason to the Executor | CODE. Treasurer Many botters will use multiple single miners spread over mutliple systems. I can't imagine many botters thinking it's a good idea to pile 50 accounts in one blob and hope to not get reported, and the additional difficulty of managing accounts spread out across systems is removed by the fact they are botting.
Mass multiboxers still exist though, so not sure what you're other 2 stones are. I'm guessing you're one of these that was hoping multiboxing would die, probably so your easy carebear ganking really pushed ahead in terms of isk made.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Globby
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling CODE.
175
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Posted - 2015.07.28 16:06:59 -
[4967] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Many botters will use multiple single miners spread over mutliple systems. I can't imagine many botters thinking it's a good idea to pile 50 accounts in one blob and hope to not get reported, and the additional difficulty of managing accounts spread out across systems is removed by the fact they are botting.
Lots of people did this hoping to not get reported. I'm just glad botting in all forms are much less prevalent now that input broadcasting is not allowed.
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Lee Sin Priest
Republic University Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2015.07.28 16:37:19 -
[4968] - Quote
Globby wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Many botters will use multiple single miners spread over mutliple systems. I can't imagine many botters thinking it's a good idea to pile 50 accounts in one blob and hope to not get reported, and the additional difficulty of managing accounts spread out across systems is removed by the fact they are botting. Lots of people did this hoping to not get reported. I'm just glad botting in all forms are much less prevalent now that input broadcasting is not allowed.
Botting is not synonymous with input broad casting, could everyone please staph It may make it more efficient, but since they're botting it won't matter whether they're spread or together (also no links)
CCP cracked down on botting slightly before Jan 1st (more so) so that may also be what you're seeing |
Globby
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling CODE.
175
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Posted - 2015.07.28 16:41:43 -
[4969] - Quote
I always felt that it was super easy to broadcast with some of these programs, but now I feel that this change is good for the game because it is no longer super easy to solo bomb an entire fleet. You actually have to be good and use more than one person now.
In no way was one guy bombing with 40 accounts in any way, shape or form fair, and I think even the people arguing otherwise realize that.
edit: I'm also glad that botting is surprisingly down by such a substantial amount since the broadcasting nerf. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6446
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Posted - 2015.07.28 22:06:55 -
[4970] - Quote
Lee Sin Priest wrote:Globby wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Many botters will use multiple single miners spread over mutliple systems. I can't imagine many botters thinking it's a good idea to pile 50 accounts in one blob and hope to not get reported, and the additional difficulty of managing accounts spread out across systems is removed by the fact they are botting. Lots of people did this hoping to not get reported. I'm just glad botting in all forms are much less prevalent now that input broadcasting is not allowed. Botting is not synonymous with input broad casting, could everyone please staph It may make it more efficient, but since they're botting it won't matter whether they're spread or together (also no links) CCP cracked down on botting slightly before Jan 1st (more so) so that may also be what you're seeing He's not "seeing" anything, he's guessing. He has no info on how many bots exist within the game at this time, nor any way to deduce it from what he sees in game, since to an outside perspective most bots just look like players. Personally, I'd expect there to be more bots in game now that mining and ratting are bigger parts of holding sov.
Globby wrote:I always felt that it was super easy to broadcast with some of these programs, but now I feel that this change is good for the game because it is no longer super easy to solo bomb an entire fleet. You actually have to be good and use more than one person now.
In no way was one guy bombing with 40 accounts in any way, shape or form fair, and I think even the people arguing otherwise realize that. No guy was bombing with 40 accounts simultaneously, since you can't field that many bombers in a run. Solo bomb runs can also still happen, it just requires a few more clicks between button presses. You know this stuff, I'm guessing this is some terrible trolling.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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corebloodbrothers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
1241
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Posted - 2015.07.31 07:23:43 -
[4971] - Quote
Fact that the post goes on supported by the same people shows that there where advantages from using it, why bother else. It made eve better, leveled the field of oppertunity, and showed ccp stepping up.
Debatting how many bombers, 40, boeh u cant use 40, even if it was 2.
The longer the debate the more i feel justified and support ccp in this. The post is mere word picking and threathening. It shows for ccp they didnt block it as being obsolete and historic |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6459
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Posted - 2015.07.31 09:26:14 -
[4972] - Quote
corebloodbrothers wrote:Fact that the post goes on supported by the same people shows that there where advantages from using it, why bother else. It made eve better, leveled the field of oppertunity, and showed ccp stepping up. No it doesn't, that's just a cop out. Effectively what you're saying there is that if you don't argue it then obviously noone thinks it's bad that it changed so it's a good thing it changed, but if they do argue it then there must have been an advantage, therefore it's good that it changed. Considering I use more multiboxing software now than before (before I used no software, now I use eve-o preview) it's unlikely the reason for me being against this change was because of the mysterious advantage it gave me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that CCP made multiboxing more challenging, I simply disagree with how they did it. They did it by scapegoating and banning a method of control that has been used for years and can't be conclusively detected. What they should have done is go after the root cause, which is bad mechanics.
Mining is insanely passive and too easy to scale. Incursions are too simple and easy to multibox solo. Bombing is the same. Look at exploration, that's never been mass multiboxed with broadcast. Why? Because each screen has it's own specific things to do. Each screen has to be actively played. That's what they should be working towards and that's what we as players should be pushing for. That so many people are happy to see them avoid making mechanics changes and instead just change the rules is quite sad. It's happening again too with the fleet warp changes. It's much easier to just break fleet warp so people have to manually warp a few more time rather than fix the mechanics - like bomber mechanics - that are passive enough to benefit from fleet warp.
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corebloodbrothers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
1241
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Posted - 2015.07.31 10:26:41 -
[4973] - Quote
I saw first hand how they detect it, and who they banned and at that point that where zero wrong banns or dectections in it. It falls under nda but was pretty awsome too see. Also the sharp drop when dcp chnaged rules from people who adjusted their gamestyle wihtout the detection and punishement, its hardly random or debatable detection, its pure math |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6460
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Posted - 2015.07.31 11:03:56 -
[4974] - Quote
corebloodbrothers wrote:I saw first hand how they detect it, and who they banned and at that point that where zero wrong banns or dectections in it. It falls under nda but was pretty awsome too see. Also the sharp drop when dcp chnaged rules from people who adjusted their gamestyle wihtout the detection and punishement, its hardly random or debatable detection, its pure math For detecting straight up broadcasts sure, but edge cases are where detection falls down, and CCP even stated themselves that they can't completely eliminate false positives. Worse, their detection profiles get updated from past detections, so each false positive will make further errors more likely. Pure math it may be, but math can both be written and interpreted badly.
And that doesn't change that what they should have been looking at is improving mechanics, not covering up their badly designed mechanics with the EULA. If the game were involving enough it would be impossible to broadcast at a reasonable level of efficiency.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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kraken11 jensen
The Gallant Collective Requiem Eternal
94
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Posted - 2015.08.02 19:25:43 -
[4975] - Quote
corebloodbrothers wrote:I saw first hand how they detect it, and who they banned and at that point that where zero wrong banns or dectections in it. It falls under nda but was pretty awsome too see. Also the sharp drop when dcp chnaged rules from people who adjusted their gamestyle wihtout the detection and punishement, its hardly random or debatable detection, its pure math The best anti detection ''anti cheat'' aka detection software's in the world, have false bans/detection, it happens. saying that it was zero wrong bans/detection. and confirming by taking an quick look at it doesn't mean that there were no wrong bans'etc. detections. at that given time. it happens in all games, that wrong bans'etc happens. it cant be avoided. and if they got wrongly banned, then it might not even show up as wrong ban. because if it was an wrong ban, it would obviously be something wrong with the detection. witch means that they wont show up as (wrong bans) . lol, |
ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers Soviet-Union
372
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Posted - 2015.08.03 21:48:47 -
[4976] - Quote
So the new win+tab upgrade in Windows 10 is making running multiple clients very fast and easy, along the lines of ISBoxer per people who have tried it.
What's CCP's next move?
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6467
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Posted - 2015.08.03 22:12:32 -
[4977] - Quote
To be fair, EVE-O preview has been authorised for use which makes it pretty easy anyway.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Phneak Atol
Exit-Strategy Exit Strategy..
0
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Posted - 2015.08.06 16:18:51 -
[4978] - Quote
What's the word on isboxer videofx mouseover functionality to assist in multiple client interaction? |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6504
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Posted - 2015.08.06 16:50:05 -
[4979] - Quote
As far as can be understood, it's a "no".
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers Soviet-Union
372
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Posted - 2015.08.06 19:43:18 -
[4980] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:As far as can be understood, it's a "no".
well i think its "no" based on how fast you are
because technically you can use mouseover inside a vfx window and its not mousing inside a client
i asked for clarification on that and also on key mapping (mapping f1 on client A to f12) and never received an answer.
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