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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2454
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:26:16 -
[1171] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:As much as I like the notoriety . . . duplication of keystrokes is not the same as autorepeat so using my catch phrase of 'it makes sense' is just out of context quoting. But at least you spelled my name right so that's nice.
Secondly, while I would LOVE to be considered the representative of all of highsec I am not so you cannot tar a highsec rep with the 'Mike Brush' (me).
Now onto the topic that is actually at hand.
Edge cases are just that but seriously, shooting someone at midnight on new years? Why don't you drag timezones in as well?
No, I don't think we should have grades of OK like it is OK in self defense. No, I don't think mining is OK as a person who uses stuff in game I look forward to mineral prices finding a new balance after entire belts are NOT eaten by one player.
Yes, I think every action in Eve can be considered a form of PvP if you want to stretch the definition. Yes, I want to see 30 players doing things where one guy and a program were before. I have been in a bomber wing, an incursion fleet, mining op. They were better because of the people around me and I want all the new player to experience that, not see some growler1 growler2 growler3 take all the targets out from under them.
Last point. There is, here, a warning of a rule change coming. I have yet to see any salient argument except for people warning of their leaving, which is to be expected. Multiboxing and simultaneity of commands has lessened our game, not made it better, and this change is long overdue. It may cause some to go and take their 'x' accounts with them. The PEOPLE will be missed but not what they were doing.
m
Not emptying quoting.
Fleet warping: Complete Bravo Sierra. AFK Cloaking: Complete Bravo Sierra. Modules auto cycling: Complete Bravo Sierra.
None of those "arguments" have a leg to stand on because none of them rely on a third party program that costs money. All of them are part of the client/game and everyone has them can benefit from them.
Hell, I have more respect for the "I'm taking my ball and going home", sub-group of ISBoxers. They are at least honest.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2454
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:28:49 -
[1172] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:I would like to request that CCP consider allowing Broadcasting to be used to update skillqueues, whether it be adding skills to the queue via broadcasting throughout, or only allowing one to hit "Accept" at the very end of manually-adding skills to the queue.
Well lets see, will it make it more efficient for players to acquire skill points...is it a third party software? Yes, and yes. Then no.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:31:43 -
[1173] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Incursions and WH site runners should be able to reasonably solo all of their content as well by this logic. We've had a double standard for a while, and while it wasn't linked to the number of people it WAS linked to the number of clients.
All of there activities that could be multiboxed will be losing efficiency, but if other activities have a bar set in a place where multiple people are needed to accomplish a task then that means there is room in the game for it and no reason to homogenize effort or player count requirements.
Once again: - Incursions and Sleepers are not kill triggers, and are already done solo by single players with alts. - No other activity gains efficiency from multiboxing. The only thing that multiboxing does for other activities is decrease the effort of input required to conduct them. Meanwhile, suicide-ganking will suffer an actual efficiency loss, due to the necessity for more accounts. The broad claim that no other activities gain efficiency from multiboxing I have great issue believing. Mainly because of your failure to recognize that the reduction of inputs is an efficiency increase in that it eliminates any input lag accross clients and ensures that each client is fully contributing to whatever task is being done from the moment the player instructs the first client to engage.
Also, as stated the kill trigger is irrelevant in determining if an activity will suffer loss. It can either be done as fast as now or it can't and it's a hard sell that 10 clients in combat won't suffer slower completion times without imput broadcasting. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25659
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:33:06 -
[1174] - Quote
haters gonna hate
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2454
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:35:51 -
[1175] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Last point. There is, here, a warning of a rule change coming. I have yet to see any salient argument except for people warning of their leaving, which is to be expected. Multiboxing and simultaneity of commands has lessened our game, not made it better, and this change is long overdue. It may cause some to go and take their 'x' accounts with them. The PEOPLE will be missed but not what they were doing. Counter-point: I have yet to see any salient argument as to why it should be banned besides "muh ice/minerals", "muh freighter afk piloting with 20b of stuff" and last but not least, "muh PLEX".
You keep ignoring the elephant in the room. You are using a 3rd party software to acquire more in game resources than a player not using said 3rd party software...even if they multibox.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2282
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:37:14 -
[1176] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:The broad claim that no other activities gain efficiency from multiboxing I have great issue believing. Mainly because of your failure to recognize that the reduction of inputs is an efficiency increase in that it eliminates any input lag accross clients and ensures that each client is fully contributing to whatever task is being done from the moment the player instructs the first client to engage.
Also, as stated the kill trigger is irrelevant in determining if an activity will suffer loss. It can either be done as fast as now or it can't and it's a hard sell that 10 clients in combat won't suffer slower completion times without imput broadcasting. Let me rephrase that a little bit.
Yes, you do suffer an efficiency loss in other activities. But in comparison to having to deal with CONCORD during a suicide-gank, it's so minor that it's practically meaningless. Does the extra second it takes you to switch between accounts make a difference in how much money you make using 3-minute-duration strip miners, or when you're shooting an NPC that takes 3 minutes of focused firepower from a dozen ships to die? Yes, it does, to the tune of half a percentage point.
For a suicide-ganker, it would be the difference between using 10 ships, and 15.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers Rim Worlds Protectorate
176
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:38:11 -
[1177] - Quote
Suffer short term losses of a Botting community er "Broadcasting" community.. to appease the Actual Playing community. Best Holiday present Ever. I will be glad to see the reduction of Bot-aspirant Behavior as CODE. would put it. Watch actual pilots moving ships more on their own instead of mass undocking 20 Miners or Cruisers at once. I much enjoyed the old days before ISboxer fully became a thing in EVE where you faught actual players not just clones upon clones. I have no problems with people using ISboxer to neaten up the monitors they use and for quick switching between screens. But I do hold issue with them piloting them all at once. Activating hardeners all at once, clearing out Belts all at once, or Destroying a fleet single handedly with their own private army.
Do not get me wrong, I am hella impressed with the skill it takes behind ISboxer armies fighting Lag and everything else to fully pull off some of those amazing kills. but I will not miss it |
sniperskitz
Claws Inc Trouble In Little China
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:40:54 -
[1178] - Quote
Jita spam ban when?
Also to everyone saying impossible to detect hardware macros and all the else, they will be looking at commands sent to server, if they are too fast and consistent it will be monitored and reviewed.
Just wait for ISBoxer to have a delayed broadcast option |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2454
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:43:51 -
[1179] - Quote
Systimus wrote:I use isboxer to mine with 4 accounts. Never have pvp'd with it. I don't use constantly but might use it to activate auto pilot or to dock. If I'm reading this correctly, this action with be banned . So no point in having 4 accounts so might as well cancel 3 of them.
Elite dangerous is out soon. Maybe cancel all 4 and have a go at that instead.
My God...it is that hard to turn on your mining lasers across 4 accounts (or 3 is one is a hauler/booster/etc.)? Seriously? If so, then this really is the wrong game for you.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
La Doktoro
Blasphemous Intentions
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:44:14 -
[1180] - Quote
Shrug. Honestly in my opinionI don't see much changing.
I mostly use isboxer for the video FX features and windows layouts. so in theory i could easily switch to something like https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246157&find=unread if they did completely ban isboxer
It took me all of hour maybe to switch things tonight to be legit in two different ways one without isboxer and one with
First opinion you can use logitech or whatever software with a gaming pad or keyboard with programmable keys.
example I could of easily set it so 1st time i hit g3 button button on my logitech keyboard it sends as Command to switch to Window 1 + F1 next press switch to Window2 + F1 and on through the list. I could easily press the key 10 times in next to no time. 10 clients 10 key presses it's legal.
the command to switch the windows is happening on your machine not in game and not affecting the in game actions so its legal in my opinion but I can see some fighting the point.
Downsides This means setting up a ton of hot keys but still easy enough. if you have one of your guys parked(afk cloaking) or not logged in you need to either modify the list or risk uncloaking or have wasted keystrokes.
Second option isboxer, I can make a round robin key with a action target group. each time I press the button it sends my desired key stroke to one character in the group until its sent it to all of them. 10 characters 10 key presses all legit
advantage if a character slot isn't actually running it won't try to send a keystroke to that character. if i want to park them (afk cloaking) somewhere changing the group membership takes next to no time.
Targeting I have always done manually too unreliable im my opinion to automate
I know in logitech you can set a button to ctrl + left MB click at a given screen coordinate so also setup your broadcast windows i the same paces. 10 button pushes 10 locked targets in what 1-2 seconds ?
I expect you can do the same with other vendors software also.
isboxer I can do this several different ways I would prolly go where do like before just add the Video Fx feature
just means it opens a little video fx(think video feed of a given size) around current mouse location so i can see where my mouse is on that character screen click and it sends a ctrl left click 10 key presses and 10 left clicks 10 locked targets with broadcast windows again you can easily lock targets in a nominal amount of time.
it wouldn't be a pure 100% alpha strike like you can with broadcast targeting however the time difference will be for most part insignificant in my opinion.
Moving around I never move all my guys at once through jumps with broadcast it's stupid and asking for you to lose stuff something is always eventually going to go wrong. So whatever.
If I'm moving around in system use fleet warp and done.
So we've covered targeting, activating modules/weapons and basic movement in legit ways with only the barest of time increases but there is a slight delay
I just don't see how it's going to change very much at all other than to be a way to ban the stupid or lazy folks that don't time to set things up right and legit.
I'm actually more concerned about False positives.
if CCP is relying solely on time delays between clients showing a key press to detect broadcasts thats just not going to work.
I can press one key 10 times in a second easily. thats 0.1 seconds per key press or 100MS and as I showed above that will send the commands i need legitimately.
so I expect CCP is going to include other standards for detecting broadcasts than just time. I also know they'll never tell us what they are and I don't blame them for not telling us either.
because in both solution I listed above you can build in buffer time delays between the key presses of a variable amount so its never the same amount which can be used to try defeat time detections
That's my only concern about this change is getting tagged as breaking the rules when I'm not.
I give CCP credit for trying to address what they perceive as a issue by the community.
It took courage knowing it was going to **** off a lot of folks and cost them subscriptions because the feeling is this is what the community wants.
But ultimately I don't think It's going to change a thing.
We are all a bunch of crazy inventive people when we choose to be and quit trolling each other.
I'm sure someone has already thought of even better and legit ways of doing things than I listed above too. Multiboxing in this game is worth the effort of thinking up legit solutions so it's not going anywhere. |
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2282
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:45:33 -
[1181] - Quote
sniperskitz wrote:Jita spam ban when?
Also to everyone saying impossible to detect hardware macros and all the else, they will be looking at commands sent to server, if they are too fast and consistent it will be monitored and reviewed.
Just wait for ISBoxer to have a delayed broadcast option What is the difference between having mouse drivers input F1-F4 with a single button press (also keep in mind that pretty much all hardware macros now support the addition of delays between commands), or yours truly picking up a Tic Tac container from the desk and using it to uniformly press those same keys on the keyboard at once?
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
kraken11 jensen
Californian CottonPickers
11
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:48:31 -
[1182] - Quote
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:Suffer short term losses of a Botting community er "Broadcasting" community.. to appease the Actual Playing community. Best Holiday present Ever. I will be glad to see the reduction of Bot-aspirant Behavior as CODE. would put it. Watch actual pilots moving ships more on their own instead of mass undocking 20 Miners or Cruisers at once. I much enjoyed the old days before ISboxer fully became a thing in EVE where you faught actual players not just clones upon clones. I have no problems with people using ISboxer to neaten up the monitors they use and for quick switching between screens. But I do hold issue with them piloting them all at once. Activating hardeners all at once, clearing out Belts all at once, or Destroying a fleet single handedly with their own private army.
Do not get me wrong, I am hella impressed with the skill it takes behind ISboxer armies fighting Lag and everything else to fully pull off some of those amazing kills. but I will not miss it
Miners wont stop mining, you dont have to use brodcasting to mine. Using the brodcasting while mining would only make bigger problem than not using it. its not like you going to all target the same stone. (unless you really have miss understood game mechanics) and we also got fleet Warp. so i see nothing changing about mining. Aand It's Not botting if players doing it. Botters are ai's who dont need human interferance for doing Things. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2454
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:49:04 -
[1183] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:sniperskitz wrote:Jita spam ban when?
Also to everyone saying impossible to detect hardware macros and all the else, they will be looking at commands sent to server, if they are too fast and consistent it will be monitored and reviewed.
Just wait for ISBoxer to have a delayed broadcast option What is the difference between having mouse drivers input F1-F4 with a single button press (also keep in mind that pretty much all hardware macros now support the addition of delays between commands), or yours truly picking up a Tic Tac container from the desk and using it to uniformly press those same keys on the keyboard at once?
Or using 4 fingers at once?
If CCP goes down this road CCP would be very stupid as the number of false positives would be very significant.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
266
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:49:48 -
[1184] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Last point. There is, here, a warning of a rule change coming. I have yet to see any salient argument except for people warning of their leaving, which is to be expected. Multiboxing and simultaneity of commands has lessened our game, not made it better, and this change is long overdue. It may cause some to go and take their 'x' accounts with them. The PEOPLE will be missed but not what they were doing. Counter-point: I have yet to see any salient argument as to why it should be banned besides "muh ice/minerals", "muh freighter afk piloting with 20b of stuff" and last but not least, "muh PLEX". You keep ignoring the elephant in the room. You are using a 3rd party software to acquire more in game resources than a player not using said 3rd party software...even if they multibox.
CCP has time and again stated that the clause is on a PER CHARACTER basis. 1/10 made me reply.
Teckos Pech wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:I would like to request that CCP consider allowing Broadcasting to be used to update skillqueues, whether it be adding skills to the queue via broadcasting throughout, or only allowing one to hit "Accept" at the very end of manually-adding skills to the queue. Well lets see, will it make it more efficient for players to acquire skill points...is it a third party software? Yes, and yes. Then no.
Again, per-toon basis. If CCP is going to let us log in our set at once using ISBoxer, then this is not that big of a deal. Please, think with the head on your shoulders. |
Sheffsam
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:51:42 -
[1185] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:sniperskitz wrote:Jita spam ban when?
Also to everyone saying impossible to detect hardware macros and all the else, they will be looking at commands sent to server, if they are too fast and consistent it will be monitored and reviewed.
Just wait for ISBoxer to have a delayed broadcast option What is the difference between having mouse drivers input F1-F4 with a single button press (also keep in mind that pretty much all hardware macros now support the addition of delays between commands), or yours truly picking up a Tic Tac container from the desk and using it to uniformly press those same keys on the keyboard at once?
I would hazard a guess that even using a tictac container will have minor differences in ms, while a macro will repeat a consistent pattern. One thing computers are good at is recognising patterns, if they are asked to do so. I'm not a developer though, so I have no idea if that's something that could practically be done within eve. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
23512
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:53:24 -
[1186] - Quote
Jibaja wrote:Carmen Electra wrote: I have 15 accounts, and after this new policy takes effect, I will have absolutely no use for 12 of them. Given that this amounts to what is effectively a permaban for 12 of my accounts, this feels severely punative. I'm sure you can understand how this would be frustrating given that I have always played by the rules. This puts me and others in a pretty tight spot. I've spent about a year carefully planning and tending to my ISBoxer fleet and it was nearly unbearable to log them in tonight knowing that my creation was about to be pretty much erased. "What you build has value" has been a marketing line in the past, and is what draws many people to EVE. What I've built is about to have no value There must be some way to follow through with this excellent new direction for EVE without imposing what feels like a severe punishment on players who, though perhaps unpopular, have played by the rules. So where was it that they said you can't use ISBoxer? i believe you stlil can. you just can't use the broadcast feature unless, as they said is logging in and whatnot. Actually, where did Carmen say that ISBoxer can't be used?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2282
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:57:22 -
[1187] - Quote
Sheffsam wrote:I would hazard a guess that even using a tictac container will have minor differences in ms, while a macro will repeat a consistent pattern. One thing computers are good at is recognising patterns, if they are asked to do so. I'm not a developer though, so I have no idea if that's something that could practically be done within eve. You can very easily randomize the delay using most software solutions.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
kraken11 jensen
Californian CottonPickers
11
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:59:05 -
[1188] - Quote
La Doktoro wrote:Shrug. Honestly in my opinionI don't see much changing. I mostly use isboxer for the video FX features and windows layouts. so in theory i could easily switch to something like https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246157&find=unread if they did completely ban isboxer It took me all of hour maybe to switch things tonight to be legit in two different ways one without isboxer and one with First opinion you can use logitech or whatever software with a gaming pad or keyboard with programmable keys. example I could of easily set it so 1st time i hit g3 button button on my logitech keyboard it sends as Command to switch to Window 1 + F1 next press switch to Window2 + F1 and on through the list. I could easily press the key 10 times in next to no time. 10 clients 10 key presses it's legal. the command to switch the windows is happening on your machine not in game and not affecting the in game actions so its legal in my opinion but I can see some fighting the point. Downsides This means setting up a ton of hot keys but still easy enough. if you have one of your guys parked(afk cloaking) or not logged in you need to either modify the list or risk uncloaking or have wasted keystrokes. Second option isboxer, I can make a round robin key with a action target group. each time I press the button it sends my desired key stroke to one character in the group until its sent it to all of them. 10 characters 10 key presses all legit advantage if a character slot isn't actually running it won't try to send a keystroke to that character. if i want to park them (afk cloaking) somewhere changing the group membership takes next to no time. Targeting I have always done manually too unreliable im my opinion to automate I know in logitech you can set a button to ctrl + left MB click at a given screen coordinate so also setup your broadcast windows i the same paces. 10 button pushes 10 locked targets in what 1-2 seconds ? I expect you can do the same with other vendors software also. isboxer I can do this several different ways I would prolly go where do like before just add the Video Fx feature just means it opens a little video fx(think video feed of a given size) around current mouse location so i can see where my mouse is on that character screen click and it sends a ctrl left click 10 key presses and 10 left clicks 10 locked targets with broadcast windows again you can easily lock targets in a nominal amount of time. it wouldn't be a pure 100% alpha strike like you can with broadcast targeting however the time difference will be for most part insignificant in my opinion. Moving around I never move all my guys at once through jumps with broadcast it's stupid and asking for you to lose stuff something is always eventually going to go wrong. So whatever. If I'm moving around in system use fleet warp and done. So we've covered targeting, activating modules/weapons and basic movement in legit ways with only the barest of time increases but there is a slight delay I just don't see how it's going to change very much at all other than to be a way to ban the stupid or lazy folks that don't time to set things up right and legit. I'm actually more concerned about False positives. if CCP is relying solely on time delays between clients showing a key press to detect broadcasts thats just not going to work. I can press one key 10 times in a second easily. thats 0.1 seconds per key press or 100MS and as I showed above that will send the commands i need legitimately. so I expect CCP is going to include other standards for detecting broadcasts than just time. I also know they'll never tell us what they are and I don't blame them for not telling us either. because in both solution I listed above you could build in buffer time delays between the key presses of a variable amount so its never the same amount which can be used to try defeat time detections but frankly im pressing the key 10 times i dont need to add in crazy time delays That's my only concern about this change is getting tagged as breaking the rules when I'm not. I give CCP credit for trying to address what they perceive as a issue by the community. It took courage knowing it was going to **** off a lot of folks and cost them subscriptions because the feeling is this is what the community wants. But ultimately I don't think It's going to change a thing. We are all a bunch of crazy inventive people when we choose to be and quit trolling each other. I'm sure someone has already thought of even better and legit ways of doing things than I listed above too. Multiboxing in this game is worth the effort of thinking up legit solutions so it's not going anywhere.
Yep. also People who think miners going to get stopped can dream :D Also isb boxer is Nice to use anyway, even if you can use multi Control (Control multiple at 1 time) And you dont even use it at mining. all you need is something you allready got'etc. fleet Warp. By the way, thank for giving me the link :) i going to look at it later :)
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MrQuisno
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 07:06:38 -
[1189] - Quote
Point clear isboxer is not BANNED!!!!
The parts of which you no longer can do with ixboxer is this....
Input Automation Input Automation refers to actions that are commonly also referred to as botting or macroing. This term is used to describe, but is not limited to, the automation of actions which have consequences in the EVE universe.
Input Broadcasting & Input Multiplexing Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing refer to the multiplication of inputs, actions and events to multiple instances of the game. |
Sailor Antimatter
Cat Stable Brothers Of The Dark Sun
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 07:10:53 -
[1190] - Quote
Quote:actions taken that do not have an impact on the EVE universe and are carried out for convenience:
GÇóWindow positions and arrangements (of the EVE Online client in your operating systemGÇÖs desktop environment) Please implement custom UI layouts for multiboxers so that we can continue to retain interest in the game. I currently multibox with the VideoFX feature of ISBoxer, and it was an ISBoxer video that got me to download and register for EVE. |
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MrQuisno
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 07:12:13 -
[1191] - Quote
Part which I don't understand what is
What is it in eve that they say about ---> Input Broadcasting & Input Multiplexing
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GeeBee
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
59
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 07:12:36 -
[1192] - Quote
My stand on ISBOXER's mirror ability has longtime been for *ease of use* or to excessively use a mechanic in the game that is inherently broken or overpowered. While I do support the removal of isboxer for BOMBing runs and maybe suicide ganking, overall the rest of the uses for it aren't too overpowered. I am worried about the economic inpact with the number of isboxing miners that will probably quit. Mining Sucks, if someone wants to use isboxer to mine it should be fair game. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25659
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 07:13:10 -
[1193] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Sheffsam wrote:I would hazard a guess that even using a tictac container will have minor differences in ms, while a macro will repeat a consistent pattern. One thing computers are good at is recognising patterns, if they are asked to do so. I'm not a developer though, so I have no idea if that's something that could practically be done within eve. You can very easily randomize the delay using most software solutions. no comment. but this is what i was thinking. curious if ISBoxer author will pull the plug on EVE or decide to make ISBoxer smarter, cuz that's all it would take. If you know what ISBoxer is capable of, you'd know there's no way for EVE to detect ISBoxer.
a lot of people need to wake up and smell the coffee. Multiboxing is the best way to play EVE.
the cries about "a multiboxer killed me" are bullshit. when you undock you sign off on whatever you encounter in space.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
Sheffsam
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 07:13:52 -
[1194] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Sheffsam wrote:I would hazard a guess that even using a tictac container will have minor differences in ms, while a macro will repeat a consistent pattern. One thing computers are good at is recognising patterns, if they are asked to do so. I'm not a developer though, so I have no idea if that's something that could practically be done within eve. You can very easily randomize the delay using most software solutions. Indeed, which is why I think short multi-keystroke macros from mice and keyboards to a single client should not be an issue. I'd like CCP to actually clarify this point though, as it seems to be a recurring question in this thread that's not been answered. |
MrQuisno
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 07:14:35 -
[1195] - Quote
Mining is very easy with isboxer even with out the Input Automation. just fleet warp away, just means more clicking... |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1276
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Posted - 2014.11.26 07:15:58 -
[1196] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:The broad claim that no other activities gain efficiency from multiboxing I have great issue believing. Mainly because of your failure to recognize that the reduction of inputs is an efficiency increase in that it eliminates any input lag accross clients and ensures that each client is fully contributing to whatever task is being done from the moment the player instructs the first client to engage.
Also, as stated the kill trigger is irrelevant in determining if an activity will suffer loss. It can either be done as fast as now or it can't and it's a hard sell that 10 clients in combat won't suffer slower completion times without imput broadcasting. Let me rephrase that a little bit. Yes, you do suffer an efficiency loss in other activities. But in comparison to having to deal with CONCORD during a suicide-gank, it's so minor that it's practically meaningless. Does the extra second it takes you to switch between accounts make a difference in how much money you make using 3-minute-duration strip miners, or when you're shooting an NPC that takes 3 minutes of focused firepower from a dozen ships to die? Yes, it does, to the tune of half a percentage point. For a suicide-ganker, it would be the difference between using 10 ships, and 15. In mining specifically yes, the difference is minute, up to a reasonable number of clients. Though the more involved the activity the more potential loss. An incursion fleet taking 15 min to run a site instead of 10 is effectively in the same boat as a ganker. The only difference is that where for one time is a variable, the other uses additional accounts. Either way the variable condition represents a cost incurred by the loss of input broadcasting. Both can also be directly expressed in lost isk.
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MrQuisno
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.11.26 07:17:29 -
[1197] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Sheffsam wrote:I would hazard a guess that even using a tictac container will have minor differences in ms, while a macro will repeat a consistent pattern. One thing computers are good at is recognising patterns, if they are asked to do so. I'm not a developer though, so I have no idea if that's something that could practically be done within eve. You can very easily randomize the delay using most software solutions. no comment. but this is what i was thinking. curious if ISBoxer author will pull the plug on EVE or decide to make ISBoxer smarter, cuz that's all it would take. If you know what ISBoxer is capable of, you'd know there's no way for EVE to detect ISBoxer. a lot of people need to wake up and smell the coffee. Multiboxing is the best way to play EVE. the cries about "a multiboxer killed me" are bullshit. when you undock you sign off on whatever you encounter in space.
""They can easily check from one ISP of the same instances multiple clients of the game data being pulled.""" |
kraken11 jensen
Californian CottonPickers
11
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Posted - 2014.11.26 07:20:00 -
[1198] - Quote
GeeBee wrote:My stand on ISBOXER's mirror ability has longtime been for *ease of use* or to excessively use a mechanic in the game that is inherently broken or overpowered. While I do support the removal of isboxer for BOMBing runs and maybe suicide ganking, overall the rest of the uses for it aren't too overpowered. I am worried about the economic inpact with the number of isboxing miners that will probably quit. Mining Sucks, if someone wants to use isboxer to mine it should be fair game.
Isb boxer not banned, Just copying inputs front 1 Client that og to all Clients going to be. Not Bannable yet. It going to change nothing about mining. |
Aengelina Abendroth
Valkyrie Logistical Support
0
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Posted - 2014.11.26 07:20:40 -
[1199] - Quote
Excellent change for the health of EVE. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1276
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Posted - 2014.11.26 07:23:01 -
[1200] - Quote
Sheffsam wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Sheffsam wrote:I would hazard a guess that even using a tictac container will have minor differences in ms, while a macro will repeat a consistent pattern. One thing computers are good at is recognising patterns, if they are asked to do so. I'm not a developer though, so I have no idea if that's something that could practically be done within eve. You can very easily randomize the delay using most software solutions. Indeed, which is why I think short multi-keystroke macros from mice and keyboards to a single client should not be an issue. I'd like CCP to actually clarify this point though, as it seems to be a recurring question in this thread that's not been answered. I'd question whether that ran against current rules about automation rather than anything that was announced here. Sounds like a good thing to ask in a petition. |
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