Somewhere around that ya. Should drop the "damage bleed" to around 30% or so. In line with other missiles, and more in line with other turrets but still about 30-35% behind peak damage. But since Turrets can be TDd that seems about right.

That's not unreasonable. As long as we're talking about size-appropriate targets naturally.

Just a troll at this point I think.

But what the hell.

http://i.imgur.com/ht1PruT.png WITH AB
http://i.imgur.com/8J45o92.png WITHOUT AB

HML RED
BEAMS GREEN
RAILS BLUE (FEROX)
RAILS TEAL (BRUTIX)
ARTY YELLOW

Drake is using 3x Fitting slots for damage application.
Cane is using 3x Fitting slots for damage application.
Others using 2x Fitting Slots for damage application.



One of these things is not like the others.

I see you've STILL not posted these mythical awesome fits that are better than guns.

Because they aren't better, nor should be. Have you actually been paying attention? There's massive advantages to missiles that have to be balanced somehow.

What?

Edit: Mario, did those graphs get switched? It looks like the with/without AB is backwards. I could be wrong though

See, their argument/troll goes like this: Heavies are fine because they're better than turrets, which we would see if all the dps graphs weren't biased, and since they're better they have to be balanced by being ******. But they're still better because, as a long range platform, they might get more EHP (despite using all rigs for application, and lows for damage) and you can get under guns but not missiles so missiles are better because they apply more dps <10km than turrets do with max transversal. Also, no missile platforms have ever been locked into damage type at all.
Makes sense right?

Edit: Mario, did those graphs get switched? It looks like the with/without AB is backwards. I could be wrong though

Nope those Graphs are in the right order.

They're not willing to take EHP and other balancing factors into account simply because it doesn't support their cause.

They don't want to talk about how turrets magically have to switch ammo for every target at a different distance (which takes 2/7 seconds, projectiles don't really benefit nor need it, it's why their dps is also a tad lower), they don't want to talk about how missiles don't use cap (nor projectiles, that's why their dps is also a bit lower), or how missiles can select damage types (just like projectiles, that's why their dps is also a bit lower) or massive fitting or... anything really.


They just want to talk pure dps, they're not even willing to do a "trade" in a "well yeah, if you'd outright buff HML then you'd create a monster again so we'll try and make it balanced". NO, all they want is for a dumb, moronic proof, non cap using, easy to use, damage type selectable clown car weapon that has no real counter, 60km range that doesn't need to switch ammo to work across its whole range, to be JUST AS GOOD at applying damage as turrets, without ANY of the disadvantages.


Because that's logical, balanced and not at all biased.

My mistake, under the weather today and forgot how to Eve for a bit.

Its not being talked about because it is irrelevant.

I can fit all tank no gank whenever I want on any ship
I can fit all gank no tank whenever I want on any ship
I can have a friend apply Webs/Painters whenever I want with any ship.

Since none of those things can be standardized, and are totally at the will of the user, it is irrelevant in a balance discussion about Heavy Missiles and Turrets. Period.

I see you conveniently decided to not address the rest.

Will you be removing the Drake's non working web and painter, add more EHP instead and then tell us how much more EHP it has compared to the rest? Or is that "not relevant".

Yes well, you go through aaaalll the effort of making a whole number of fits to show us how bad the drake/missiles are, and then (weirdly) there's one ship fit that has some modules that aren't doing anything, nor aren't used for the whole comparison. And that just, magically, happens to be that Drake... with the missiles.


Really.

Yes I see your point. That doesn't make much sense if i was comparing the drake to other ships. But im not here to argue for the drake. So I don't really care about that. I am here to get balance for heavy missiles

But you're making use of the ferox' trait; range, the Cane's dps, the brutix's dps etc etc. If you're going to use a ship that has a really big advantage over other ships, while not being missile related, then that's going to impact its missile performance and as such affect the comparison.

I'm confused as to what this DPS drop is when shooting HM's at BC's. Even with AB's on I'm only getting a very small drop in DPS and that's beyond the single TP's range of 45km which is fitted to the Drake already!

I've been making some graphs of my own. My HML Fleet Drake fits do comparably well vs everything else (except a Myrm because of Sentries). The Arty Hurricane and HML Cyclone are really pathetic compared to the rest of the pack though.

You'd expect that, it's a size class up (cruiser weapon system). Arguably one should be shooting fury at BC.