Originally by: sugark

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Thanks, Ivan - good one. Makes me feel reassured that this issue is not about to be hidden :)

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eve-crc.net | forum rules |[email protected]
He's a mdoerator you know - Serathu

Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov

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Originally by: sugark

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Thanks, Ivan - good one. Makes me feel reassured that this issue is not about to be hidden :)

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There has not been any "hiding" - there is a difference between hiding an issue, and enforcing the forum rule that exploits and bugs are not to be posted on the forums. The reasons for this should be quite clear :)

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Originally by: Biglipz

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My concern is Kieron told everybody this issue was only made aware to the devs 3 days ago, he also said the issue has been fixed. According to some, this issue has existed for over a year, i can also confirm the issue has not been fixed, i am watching the same people exploit this bug even as i write this post. Yes i have petitioned.

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Originally by: Biglipz

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Wrong, all the exploiters have been ordered to leave the bugged complexes, there is currently nobody exploiting the bug.

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Originally by: Iva Soreass

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Originally by: Biglipz

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My concern is Kieron told everybody this issue was only made aware to the devs 3 days ago, he also said the issue has been fixed. According to some, this issue has existed for over a year, i can also confirm the issue has not been fixed, i am watching the same people exploit this bug even as i write this post. Yes i have petitioned.

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Told you didnt ppl were still doing it ,

Originally by: Biglipz

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Wrong, all the exploiters have been ordered to leave the bugged complexes, there is currently nobody exploiting the bug.

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Yet you seemed to think this last night :|

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Originally by: Gabriel Karade

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I think its time to consider making complexes both hidden (i.e. require exploration), and appear in a different location, both in-system and in-constellation, each time it is destroyed (so that it cannot be bookmarked)

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Originally by: Nebuli

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Tend to agree with the complete removal of them, they dont realy add anything to the game, they are only done by the few that live in the correct time zones and are so easy to exploit, just remove them all, they just arent IMO in the keeping with the rest of EVE.

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Originally by: d026

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Remove all the ISK and mods gained by the few people exploiting the angel 8/10 complex.

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Originally by: Evil Thug

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Needed measures:
- All accounts engaged in serious exploitation (say more than 2-3 days of 10 hours non-stop mining of arkonor) should be banned.

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Originally by: Biglipz

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Originally by: Evil Thug

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Needed measures:
- All accounts engaged in serious exploitation (say more than 2-3 days of 10 hours non-stop mining of arkonor) should be banned.

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Except mining arkonor is not an exploit, but farming a bugged overseer over and over is.

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Originally by: Evil Thug

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Originally by: Biglipz

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Originally by: Evil Thug

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Needed measures:
- All accounts engaged in serious exploitation (say more than 2-3 days of 10 hours non-stop mining of arkonor) should be banned.

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Except mining arkonor is not an exploit, but farming a bugged overseer over and over is.

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I think this is exploit. I will place alts in every system with arkonor, and will petition any mining barge entered belt. Like you do, mr.alt.

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Originally by: c0rn1

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ET, FYI: arkonor roids do not respawn every 45 minutes, you know?

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Originally by: Evil Thug

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Originally by: Biglipz

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Originally by: Evil Thug

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Needed measures:
- All accounts engaged in serious exploitation (say more than 2-3 days of 10 hours non-stop mining of arkonor) should be banned.

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Except mining arkonor is not an exploit, but farming a bugged overseer over and over is.

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I think this is exploit. I will place alts in every system with arkonor, and will petition any mining barge entered belt. Like you do, mr.alt.

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Originally by: ahf 42

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Originally by: Evil Thug

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Originally by: Biglipz

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Originally by: Evil Thug

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Needed measures:
- All accounts engaged in serious exploitation (say more than 2-3 days of 10 hours non-stop mining of arkonor) should be banned.

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Except mining arkonor is not an exploit, but farming a bugged overseer over and over is.

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I think this is exploit. I will place alts in every system with arkonor, and will petition any mining barge entered belt. Like you do, mr.alt.

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trolling is a forum rule vilolation.

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Originally by: Biglipz

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Hes just trying to get this thread locked, just like they did the last one. If Evil Thug really did send alts to all arkonor systems and petition people mining in barges, he would be banned very fast for wasting the GM's time.

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Originally by: Evil Thug

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Originally by: Biglipz

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Hes just trying to get this thread locked, just like they did the last one. If Evil Thug really did send alts to all arkonor systems and petition people mining in barges, he would be banned very fast for wasting the GM's time.

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If you are blind - i presented my solution to current situation, while you were running around, screaming : "ban, ban, ban" and trying to blackmail CCP with "omg, i will lost all faith in you, if you don`t ban thee".

Increase spawning rate of keyholders, so everybody with enough dedication will be able to enter complex and challenge those guys, who entered this plex earlier. Problem solved

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Quote:

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Increase spawning rate of keyholders, so everybody with enough dedication will be able to enter complex and challenge those guys, who entered this plex earlier. Problem solved

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Originally by: Istaklain

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Edited by: Istaklain on 24/09/2006 16:50:38
I find it hard to believe a bug like this has managed to stick around this long. Especially when we are told that complexes are watched very carefully.

This bug has persisted for at least 4 months through many hot fixes, and one major patch and still nothing is done.

The issue is taken to the forums not once, but twice and still nothing is being done.

This entire situation is beyond pathetic.

Quote:

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Increase spawning rate of keyholders, so everybody with enough dedication will be able to enter complex and challenge those guys, who entered this plex earlier. Problem solved

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That solves nothing. That only allows more people to try and take advantage of the bug.

People have been whining about the inflation caused by lvl4 missions which don't hold a candle to the this bug.

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Originally by: Evil Thug

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More nosense

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Originally by: Great Spylord

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The Great Spylord's Wisdom shines clear.

What is the problem of complex's?

1. Invincibility of those inside, impossible to probe
2. A fraction of 1% of the eve population get to run them
3. Bugged plex's
4. Favor's Timezone wars

The Great Spylord Solution is as palatable as he is wise

Make all over seeres respawn ever hour for all plex's, make all plex's require no keyholders. Also remove all effects

The Wisdom of the Great Spylord inspires us all. This will mean anybody can raid a plex pretty much anytime, and will actually give a point to doing so. Removing the keyholders will prevent the complex becoming invincible, and the sheer number of quality loot that will be flooded into the market will devalue the trillions that the exploiters have stores in loot value alone.

The Great Spylord Rules all.

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Originally by: Biglipz

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Edited by: Biglipz on 24/09/2006 17:32:53
Edited by: Biglipz on 24/09/2006 17:32:09

Originally by: Great Spylord

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The Great Spylord's Wisdom shines clear.

What is the problem of complex's?

1. Invincibility of those inside, impossible to probe
2. A fraction of 1% of the eve population get to run them
3. Bugged plex's
4. Favor's Timezone wars

The Great Spylord Solution is as palatable as he is wise

Make all over seeres respawn ever hour for all plex's, make all plex's require no keyholders. Also remove all effects

The Wisdom of the Great Spylord inspires us all. This will mean anybody can raid a plex pretty much anytime, and will actually give a point to doing so. Removing the keyholders will prevent the complex becoming invincible, and the sheer number of quality loot that will be flooded into the market will devalue the trillions that the exploiters have stores in loot value alone.

The Great Spylord Rules all.

---

The serpentis 10/10 complex does not require keys, unless its the last level. Make all complexes like this, and randomise the respawn time, aswell as stop it respawning through downtime, problem solved.

Making all complexes respawn within 45 minutes would completely kill EVE, the inflation would be huge, a 10/10 alone would generate 10 billion isk from overseer effects alone.

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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Originally by: Biglipz

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Edited by: Biglipz on 24/09/2006 17:32:53
Edited by: Biglipz on 24/09/2006 17:32:09

Originally by: Great Spylord

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The Great Spylord's Wisdom shines clear.

What is the problem of complex's?

1. Invincibility of those inside, impossible to probe
2. A fraction of 1% of the eve population get to run them
3. Bugged plex's
4. Favor's Timezone wars

The Great Spylord Solution is as palatable as he is wise

Make all over seeres respawn ever hour for all plex's, make all plex's require no keyholders. Also remove all effects

The Wisdom of the Great Spylord inspires us all. This will mean anybody can raid a plex pretty much anytime, and will actually give a point to doing so. Removing the keyholders will prevent the complex becoming invincible, and the sheer number of quality loot that will be flooded into the market will devalue the trillions that the exploiters have stores in loot value alone.

The Great Spylord Rules all.

---

The serpentis 10/10 complex does not require keys, unless its the last level. Make all complexes like this, and randomise the respawn time, aswell as stop it respawning through downtime, problem solved.

Making all complexes respawn within 45 minutes would completely kill EVE, the inflation would be huge, a 10/10 alone would generate 10 billion isk from overseer effects alone.

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Quite right. Making everybody able to do it is not an option, it would enable murderous inflation. Punish the offenders, close the loopholes. And I still maintain that complexes in its current form are in fact against the spirit of Eve, you should not be able to protect yourself from PvP in the most lucrative aspect of the game.

If complexes are left in, they should have no keys, and spawntime should be randomized to make sure not only people who rush on seconds after DT can farm them.

Ideally, they should be removed completely. We don't need em.

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Originally by: Burzhuj

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Do we really needed to make another tread about this? We got same alts, same trolls, but it only more moderated now. 0.0 space have LOTS way to make billons of ISK, how you think, what complexs farmer will do if he unable to farm complexs? Right answer is: HE STILL MAKE BILLIONS OF ISKs if he need them. Not in the complexs smart people find another ways to do it. And all army of forum whineers can`t do anything about it.

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Originally by: Nafri

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Solution:

Take complexes out of the game and rework them. After you made them somehow fun and challenging implent them again with a big randomness factor.

Random spawning times
Random spawning locations

Unless you implent that, most complexes will be just camped by alts logging in 1-2x per day, farming the plex and for 99,9999% of the population of Eve a complex has zero value at all.

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Originally by: SephiriotH

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nah.. all the whining are made by chars who cant spent more than 3 hours in eve every day , so they are horribly jealous :} just for info - non-stop high mining for 24hrs gives you approx 2billions ISK . Nice and stable income . and that sum is exceeding AVERAGE 8/10 plex farm for 24hrs , which could be half of that sum only.

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Originally by: SephiriotH

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Edited by: SephiriotH on 24/09/2006 18:25:11
nah.. all the whining are made by chars who cant spent more than 3 hours in eve every day , so they are horribly jealous :} just for info - non-stop high mining for 24hrs gives you approx 2billions ISK . Nice and stable income . and that sum is exceeding AVERAGE 8/10 plex farm for 24hrs , which could be half of that sum only.

beating the question in advance : yes, there are some zones when you could mine like this and nobody will dare to interrupt you.

on plex "problem" suggestion :

1. make it possible to install an NPC mission agents on outposts. that will provide additional source of income for the ones who can't make the plex solo and will stop their whining (I hope ) . you can make a really good money with selling pirate implants.
2. make plexes more harder to control .

P.S. make also impossible to post on forums if you are a member of noob corp :}

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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Originally by: Biglipz

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Edited by: Biglipz on 24/09/2006 17:32:53
Edited by: Biglipz on 24/09/2006 17:32:09

Originally by: Great Spylord

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The Great Spylord's Wisdom shines clear.

What is the problem of complex's?

1. Invincibility of those inside, impossible to probe
2. A fraction of 1% of the eve population get to run them
3. Bugged plex's
4. Favor's Timezone wars

The Great Spylord Solution is as palatable as he is wise

Make all over seeres respawn ever hour for all plex's, make all plex's require no keyholders. Also remove all effects

The Wisdom of the Great Spylord inspires us all. This will mean anybody can raid a plex pretty much anytime, and will actually give a point to doing so. Removing the keyholders will prevent the complex becoming invincible, and the sheer number of quality loot that will be flooded into the market will devalue the trillions that the exploiters have stores in loot value alone.

The Great Spylord Rules all.

---

The serpentis 10/10 complex does not require keys, unless its the last level. Make all complexes like this, and randomise the respawn time, aswell as stop it respawning through downtime, problem solved.

Making all complexes respawn within 45 minutes would completely kill EVE, the inflation would be huge, a 10/10 alone would generate 10 billion isk from overseer effects alone.

---

Quite right. Making everybody able to do it is not an option, it would enable murderous inflation. Punish the offenders, close the loopholes. And I still maintain that complexes in its current form are in fact against the spirit of Eve, you should not be able to protect yourself from PvP in the most lucrative aspect of the game.

If complexes are left in, they should have no keys, and spawntime should be randomized to make sure not only people who rush on seconds after DT can farm them.

Ideally, they should be removed completely. We don't need em.

---

Quote:

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Remove complexes. Problems solved.

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Originally by: SephiriotH

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trolling ? I didnt made one , I guess . The one who spents 16hrs in eve every day deserves to have 16 times more income that the ones who are spending 1 hour in eve for a day, right ? About mining : damn it, use 7 accounts on hulks ! that is serious approach , 2 accounts is a joke.

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Originally by: SephiriotH

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2. also all outposts should be removed from constellation with plexes , that will make control of plex much more harder .
3. it should be impossible to build an outpost in constellaton with plex (make it claimed by NPC faction)

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Originally by: d026

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Quote:

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Remove complexes. Problems solved.

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i think not, the money made by exploiting the complexes is still in the game and causes (if the number provided in the other tread are more or less accurate) a huge imbalance.

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Originally by: Gabriel Karade

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Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 24/09/2006 14:54:03

I think its time to consider making complexes both hidden (i.e. require exploration), and appear in a different location, both in-system and in-constellation, each time it is destroyed (so that it cannot be bookmarked)

To 'control' a complex you would therefore have to be able to control the whole constellation and still have to explore the individual systems thoroughly to find it.

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Originally by: Burzhuj

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Originally by: d026

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Quote:

---

Remove complexes. Problems solved.

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i think not, the money made by exploiting the complexes is still in the game and causes (if the number provided in the other tread are more or less accurate) a huge imbalance.

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Dont worry pal, all those trillions it just a myth. As was said before, average income from 8/10, including loot is about 2 bil per 23h (in 10/10 average 2-3 times more).

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Originally by: Burzhuj

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Originally by: d026

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Quote:

---

Remove complexes. Problems solved.

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i think not, the money made by exploiting the complexes is still in the game and causes (if the number provided in the other tread are more or less accurate) a huge imbalance.

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Dont worry pal, all those trillions it just a myth. As was said before, average income from 8/10, including loot is about 2 bil per 23h (in 10/10 average 2-3 times more).

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Originally by: SephiriotH

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2 Dark Shikari

10-20 times more ? get yourself back to earth :}

about 77s - I'm personally hating the plexes, pvp 4tw ! On my opinion - all the outposts nearby were builded to farm the plexes , not to "prevent someone" from entering it .

more on-topic :

1. it could be nice to have a MINIMAL limit of ships entering the plex . for egz - taking a 10/10 should be at least corporate event , so to enter it - a gang of hmm... 15 ships jumping in 30 seconds limit should be necessary for EVERY gate . cloaking devices should be disabled in plex as well .

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Originally by: Biglipz

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Edited by: Biglipz on 24/09/2006 17:32:53
Edited by: Biglipz on 24/09/2006 17:32:09

Originally by: Great Spylord

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The Great Spylord's Wisdom shines clear.

What is the problem of complex's?

1. Invincibility of those inside, impossible to probe
2. A fraction of 1% of the eve population get to run them
3. Bugged plex's
4. Favor's Timezone wars

The Great Spylord Solution is as palatable as he is wise

Make all over seeres respawn ever hour for all plex's, make all plex's require no keyholders. Also remove all effects

The Wisdom of the Great Spylord inspires us all. This will mean anybody can raid a plex pretty much anytime, and will actually give a point to doing so. Removing the keyholders will prevent the complex becoming invincible, and the sheer number of quality loot that will be flooded into the market will devalue the trillions that the exploiters have stores in loot value alone.

The Great Spylord Rules all.

---

The serpentis 10/10 complex does not require keys, unless its the last level. Make all complexes like this, and randomise the respawn time, aswell as stop it respawning through downtime, problem solved.

Making all complexes respawn within 45 minutes would completely kill EVE, the inflation would be huge, a 10/10 alone would generate 10 billion isk from overseer effects alone.

---

Originally by: Biglipz

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Originally by: Istaklain

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Edited by: Istaklain on 24/09/2006 16:50:38
I find it hard to believe a bug like this has managed to stick around this long. Especially when we are told that complexes are watched very carefully.

This bug has persisted for at least 4 months through many hot fixes, and one major patch and still nothing is done.

The issue is taken to the forums not once, but twice and still nothing is being done.

This entire situation is beyond pathetic.

Quote:

---

Increase spawning rate of keyholders, so everybody with enough dedication will be able to enter complex and challenge those guys, who entered this plex earlier. Problem solved

---

That solves nothing. That only allows more people to try and take advantage of the bug.

People have been whining about the inflation caused by lvl4 missions which don't hold a candle to the this bug.

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According to RA this bug has existed for over a year. This would explain the huge GDP raise, and mass inflation thats occured over the past 1 year. Its bad.

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Originally by: Haniblecter Teg

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Originally by: Biglipz

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Originally by: Istaklain

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Edited by: Istaklain on 24/09/2006 16:50:38
I find it hard to believe a bug like this has managed to stick around this long. Especially when we are told that complexes are watched very carefully.

This bug has persisted for at least 4 months through many hot fixes, and one major patch and still nothing is done.

The issue is taken to the forums not once, but twice and still nothing is being done.

This entire situation is beyond pathetic.

Quote:

---

Increase spawning rate of keyholders, so everybody with enough dedication will be able to enter complex and challenge those guys, who entered this plex earlier. Problem solved

---

That solves nothing. That only allows more people to try and take advantage of the bug.

People have been whining about the inflation caused by lvl4 missions which don't hold a candle to the this bug.

---

According to RA this bug has existed for over a year. This would explain the huge GDP raise, and mass inflation thats occured over the past 1 year. Its bad.

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Do explain how introducing more faction modules into the market increases GDP? Or puts more ISK into the markte.

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Originally by: Clementina

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If you bug report it, you get ignored.
If you post about it on the forums, you get banned.
If you exploit it, you get rich.

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Originally by: Darkenral

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Edited by: Darkenral on 24/09/2006 20:20:39
My initial reaction was BANS FOR THE SPLOITERS !!! Then after giving it some thought I guess CCP is really ok with this stuff and its part of EVE.

Other situations where a small % of players accumulate game breaking isk:

HAC BPO Owners
Certain T2 Mod BPO Owners
Recent large scams (Although those were quite a bit smaller in scale as I understand the math)

Whats more broken a bunch of guys farming a plex or some guy sitting in a station making insane amounts of isk virtually by doing nothing. And since all the BPO's in question are seeded there is no way you can hurt him - his corp - or compete.

0 Risk - Huge rewards. Same as farming the plex imo.

In keeping with the whole "the world isnt fair philosophy of EVE" I say let them keep their isk and move on .... hopefully ccp will fix the plexes or not.

Add these plex farmers to the small % of ppl that have won EVE.

Dark


Edit: Nice sig Deja

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Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov

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Ok. I will say this once, and once only. Stop going into specifics about who and how. It's not constructive, and it will only degenerate the thread into the previous one, which was locked. Therefore, there will be no witch-hunt demanding the bans of all players of specific alliances or corporations. If anybody trolls, don't answer, mail us instead. Thread cleaned - if you have any objections, feel free to mail us at [email protected], don't post it here.

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Originally by: Deadzone

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Sorry, Kyrenne is my char. Dont know why it keeps defaulting to her.

But also...not only was the other thread locked, it was completely deleted. Nice job of trying to sweep it under the rug CCP/ISD.

Complete and totaly disappointment in that action.

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Originally by: Virtuozzo

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Originally by: Deadzone

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Sorry, Kyrenne is my char. Dont know why it keeps defaulting to her.

But also...not only was the other thread locked, it was completely deleted. Nice job of trying to sweep it under the rug CCP/ISD.

Complete and totaly disappointment in that action.

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Just use eve-search.com and search for the ThreadID ...

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Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov

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About the thread that was locked, it's still there, and it's even linked to in my OP in this thread - here it is. The problem with it "disappearing" is a forum bug which happens when you lock a previously stickied thread, as far as I can tell.

As for the intentions of this thread, it is a place to post your concerns, and provide comments and feedback on the issue, which several have done, providing construcitve comments on possible ways the complexes could work. And again, neither CCP nor ISD wants the facts in any way hidden or swept under the rug - we (ISD) are just enforcing the forum rules. If you feel that our way of handling this is wrong, you can mail us and tell us, and we'll be happy to discuss it with you. As to what will happen with people who've taken advantage of the spawn rate, that's for the GMs to decide and the forums are not the place to provide such facts.

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Originally by: Kyrenn 'Rehnamm

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EDIT- #^$%#%&@& damn thing reverting back to this char again!!! ARG! Anyway to make it post with my main without it going Never had this problem before...

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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Originally by: Darkenral

---

Edited by: Darkenral on 24/09/2006 20:20:39
My initial reaction was BANS FOR THE SPLOITERS !!! Then after giving it some thought I guess CCP is really ok with this stuff and its part of EVE.

Other situations where a small % of players accumulate game breaking isk:

HAC BPO Owners
Certain T2 Mod BPO Owners
Recent large scams (Although those were quite a bit smaller in scale as I understand the math)

Whats more broken a bunch of guys farming a plex or some guy sitting in a station making insane amounts of isk virtually by doing nothing. And since all the BPO's in question are seeded there is no way you can hurt him - his corp - or compete.

0 Risk - Huge rewards. Same as farming the plex imo.

In keeping with the whole "the world isnt fair philosophy of EVE" I say let them keep their isk and move on .... hopefully ccp will fix the plexes or not.

Add these plex farmers to the small % of ppl that have won EVE.

Dark


Edit: Nice sig Deja

---

Darken, there is a difference. None of the 3 things you describe cause inflation as such. They are just methods of shifting ISK around in vast quantities, and all by the free will of those involved (though not always with the realization of what can/will happen). Any exploitation in regards to BPOs or scams is of players cheating on players. In this case with the complexes we are talking about exploiting the game. Big difference.

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Originally by: Evil Thug

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On more serious note.

Increase spawning rate of keyholders in 8\10. So, everyone who want to challenge this plex will be able to do so.

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I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy

Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath

Originally by: SephiriotH

---

Edited by: SephiriotH on 24/09/2006 18:25:11
nah.. all the whining are made by chars who cant spent more than 3 hours in eve every day , so they are horribly jealous :} just for info - non-stop high mining for 24hrs gives you approx 2billions ISK . Nice and stable income . and that sum is exceeding AVERAGE 8/10 plex farm for 24hrs , which could be half of that sum only.

---

I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy

Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath

Originally by: Biglipz

---

Edited by: Biglipz on 24/09/2006 21:04:30
The fact that the thread was deleted completely does make you wonder why is was removed.

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Originally by: Biglipz

---

Edited by: Biglipz on 24/09/2006 21:04:30
The fact that the thread was deleted completely does make you wonder why is was removed.

---

I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy

Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath

Originally by: Wrangler

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Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..

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Originally by: Gajiin

---

I have a positive suggestion here for CCP. I too work in one of the world's most complex server-side environments, where interactions between systems are nearly impossible to predict. Human imput is everywhere, and keeping track of everything that is going on is quite simply impossible. However, we have learned one thing, that it is possible to ascertain the health of a system.

What am I talking about you ask? One word: Metrics. I'm certain that CCP keeps all kinds of statistics about the health of the technical side of eve. Number of error messages generated, number of crashes, average latency, yadda yadda yadda. What CCP needs to do is add metrics along the lines of Redundancy's latest dev blogs. Keeping track of the economy of eve and measuring it. If they had been doing this, most likely there would be a measure for things like overseer's effects collected in a day in addition to measuring all of the other npc-related interactions with players (as this is where the biggest likelihood is for an exploit). There would probably also be measures for ore mined/day, etc.

What is the point of all of this you ask? Well most of these measures should have reasonably predictable values given either design constraints or historical behavior of players. One can (with relative ease) extrapolate the expected value for any one of these measures. A deviation from this measure is usually an indication that *something* is wrong. It won't necessarily tell you what, but it will tell you when it started happening and how bad the effect is.

What I am driving at here is that bugs/exploits cannot be totally prevented, but that one should make every effort to ensure detection happens early. Relying on the playerbase is great and all, but obviously a flawed system. If CCP had been tracking these from the getgo, someone would have said, hey why are there 10x the number of expected overseer effects for the 8/10 complexes? It would be especially obvious if this bug was introduced at some point after the complexes were added to the game, as one could easily see the rise in effects.

Anyway, I post this with the hope that a developer reads it and is able to make something useful from this thought.

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Originally by: Clementina

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If you bug report it, you get ignored.
If you post about it on the forums, you get banned.
If you exploit it, you get rich.

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

---

Needed measures:
- All accounts engaged in serious exploitation (say more than 2-3 days of 10 hours non-stop farming) should be banned.
- All corporations with a large number of banned accounts under the first point should be disbanded and all their assets destroyed.
- Any large transfers of assets from these accounts to other accounts should be undone and those assets destroyed as well.
- Any large transfers of assets from any corporations involved to other corporations should be undone and the assets destroyed.
- Any characters bought by the accounts under the first point should be banned. Any accounts which can be associated to be the same person as the accounts under the first point should be banned.

If this is done we're talking about measures which would restore my faith in the game and in CCP.

As for complexes, I think they should not exist in the game. Remove them entirely and this problem goes away. If CCP wants to make it a bit more palatable, since they would be destroying a big revenue source for many people/corps/alliances, they could increase faction officer spawns in 0.0, and perhaps replace the plexes with a number of very highend asteroid belts, so to enable people to make up for lost revenue. Plexes are a neverending source of potential exploits and lame gameplay, get rid of them.

If that is really not an option, just pull the complexes out of deadspace and into normal space. Make them very large belts with specifically tailored highend rat spawns with potentially good loot. No deadspace = no exploits. And a good place to shoot other people in the face over who gets to kill the rats there :-) Which is always welcome.

---

Originally by: Red Ochre

---

Originally by: Malachon Draco

---

Needed measures:
- All accounts engaged in serious exploitation (say more than 2-3 days of 10 hours non-stop farming) should be banned.
- All corporations with a large number of banned accounts under the first point should be disbanded and all their assets destroyed.
- Any large transfers of assets from these accounts to other accounts should be undone and those assets destroyed as well.
- Any large transfers of assets from any corporations involved to other corporations should be undone and the assets destroyed.
- Any characters bought by the accounts under the first point should be banned. Any accounts which can be associated to be the same person as the accounts under the first point should be banned.

If this is done we're talking about measures which would restore my faith in the game and in CCP.

As for complexes, I think they should not exist in the game. Remove them entirely and this problem goes away. If CCP wants to make it a bit more palatable, since they would be destroying a big revenue source for many people/corps/alliances, they could increase faction officer spawns in 0.0, and perhaps replace the plexes with a number of very highend asteroid belts, so to enable people to make up for lost revenue. Plexes are a neverending source of potential exploits and lame gameplay, get rid of them.

If that is really not an option, just pull the complexes out of deadspace and into normal space. Make them very large belts with specifically tailored highend rat spawns with potentially good loot. No deadspace = no exploits. And a good place to shoot other people in the face over who gets to kill the rats there :-) Which is always welcome.

---

omg, a furious tiki god! i thought no understood!

well said, well said.

---

Originally by: Great Spylord

---

Edited by: Great Spylord on 25/09/2006 08:08:46
The Great Spylords intellect shines above all.

The Great Spylord knows that the exploiters will feign innocence, and only when a GM tells them not to farm a plex, they will leave. They will then log onto their alts and start re-farming the same plex, and again feign innocence. Either way, trillions of loot exists hidden in exploit safespots 1000's of AU from any warpable object. Once the CCP round of banning occurs, the exploiters will log back in and start selling this loot.

All Hail the Great Spylord, We worship your feet to ask for your solution!

The Great Spylord knows that the following are the problems. In his infinite wisdom, The Great Spylord has posted the solutions to each problem as well.

1. Complex's are about timezone wars. Its a race after downtime to get them
---> Then get rid of all keyholders - Whats the point of a keyholder anyway?
2. Complex runners are invincible once they get past a certain gate
---> With no keyholders - No complex runner is invincible!
3. 99.9% of the Eve population will never be able to use a complex
---> Have the Overseer respawn every hour for every complex - Gives everyone a chance to run one if they want to fight for it!
4. If the overseer respawns every hour - wont it cause inflation?
---> Remove all effects - This will create a increase of complex loot, resulting in deflation of overpriced uber items. And no effects = no inflation
5. What about the people who already have 500mil mods? Wont this devaule that?
---> Insolent fool! The Great Spylord knows that the Trillions of loot safely stashed away will have its value slashed overnight - The Exploiters will lose out the most!

The Great Spylord sumerises as follows

1. Remove all effects
2. Remove all keyholders
3. Make overseer respawn every hour


Solves every problem everyone ever had with complex's.

All hail the Great Spylord for his wisdom - we are not worthy!

---

Originally by: Great Spylord

---

Edited by: Great Spylord on 25/09/2006 08:08:46
The Great Spylords intellect shines above all.

The Great Spylord knows that the exploiters will feign innocence, and only when a GM tells them not to farm a plex, they will leave. They will then log onto their alts and start re-farming the same plex, and again feign innocence. Either way, trillions of loot exists hidden in exploit safespots 1000's of AU from any warpable object. Once the CCP round of banning occurs, the exploiters will log back in and start selling this loot.

All Hail the Great Spylord, We worship your feet to ask for your solution!

The Great Spylord knows that the following are the problems. In his infinite wisdom, The Great Spylord has posted the solutions to each problem as well.

1. Complex's are about timezone wars. Its a race after downtime to get them
---> Then get rid of all keyholders - Whats the point of a keyholder anyway?
2. Complex runners are invincible once they get past a certain gate
---> With no keyholders - No complex runner is invincible!
3. 99.9% of the Eve population will never be able to use a complex
---> Have the Overseer respawn every hour for every complex - Gives everyone a chance to run one if they want to fight for it!
4. If the overseer respawns every hour - wont it cause inflation?
---> Remove all effects - This will create a increase of complex loot, resulting in deflation of overpriced uber items. And no effects = no inflation
5. What about the people who already have 500mil mods? Wont this devaule that?
---> Insolent fool! The Great Spylord knows that the Trillions of loot safely stashed away will have its value slashed overnight - The Exploiters will lose out the most!



Solves every problem everyone ever had with complex's.

All hail the Great Spylord for his wisdom - we are not worthy!

---

Originally by: NOObbody

---

Edited by: NOObbody on 25/09/2006 08:58:00

Originally by: Great Spylord

---

Edited by: Great Spylord on 25/09/2006 08:08:46
The Great Spylords intellect shines above all.

The Great Spylord knows that the exploiters will feign innocence, and only when a GM tells them not to farm a plex, they will leave. They will then log onto their alts and start re-farming the same plex, and again feign innocence. Either way, trillions of loot exists hidden in exploit safespots 1000's of AU from any warpable object. Once the CCP round of banning occurs, the exploiters will log back in and start selling this loot.

All Hail the Great Spylord, We worship your feet to ask for your solution!

The Great Spylord knows that the following are the problems. In his infinite wisdom, The Great Spylord has posted the solutions to each problem as well.

1. Complex's are about timezone wars. Its a race after downtime to get them
---> Then get rid of all keyholders - Whats the point of a keyholder anyway?
2. Complex runners are invincible once they get past a certain gate
---> With no keyholders - No complex runner is invincible!
3. 99.9% of the Eve population will never be able to use a complex
---> Have the Overseer respawn every hour for every complex - Gives everyone a chance to run one if they want to fight for it!
4. If the overseer respawns every hour - wont it cause inflation?
---> Remove all effects - This will create a increase of complex loot, resulting in deflation of overpriced uber items. And no effects = no inflation
5. What about the people who already have 500mil mods? Wont this devaule that?
---> Insolent fool! The Great Spylord knows that the Trillions of loot safely stashed away will have its value slashed overnight - The Exploiters will lose out the most!



Solves every problem everyone ever had with complex's.

All hail the Great Spylord for his wisdom - we are not worthy!

---

If you implement #2, theres no more need to implement #3 too. So everyone who wants to do it, can enter, but at a risk of course.

---

Originally by: James Lyrus

---

Edited by: James Lyrus on 25/09/2006 10:03:50
So, suggestion:

Move the complexes regularly (IMO, each time completed, somewhere else in the constellation), and don't beacon their entry point. Maybe even somewhere else in the region, or even somewhere else entirely. This might (or might not) require shifting rewards a bit.

Keys, fine, however we do have hacking skills now. Let's let our hackers ***** the gate, so it's possible to jump someone in invulnaspace. Actually, gate locking/unlocking could be a useful feature in general, but I digress.

I quite like complexes, and think the competitive resource model is quite a good one. However it quickly becomes frustrating when the 'competition' is one of 'who can grab the first key just after downtime'.

Can't really comment on 'sploiting or whatever. I just think that's lame and spoils the game.

---

Originally by: Great Spylord

---

Edited by: Great Spylord on 25/09/2006 10:17:49
Whilst preparing a seminar on the importance of overseeres in the diet of podding complex runners, The Great Spylord notice's a letter landing on his doormat. It was a 1' radius letter 'o', probably the one the Great Spylord had stolen from the illuminated sign from the new Tesco's in South London. Upon closer examination, The Great Spylord notices a reflection of James Lyrus leaving the shower who yells out the following scream -

Originally by: James Lyrus

---

Edited by: James Lyrus on 25/09/2006 10:03:50
So, suggestion:

Move the complexes regularly (IMO, each time completed, somewhere else in the constellation), and don't beacon their entry point. Maybe even somewhere else in the region, or even somewhere else entirely. This might (or might not) require shifting rewards a bit.

Keys, fine, however we do have hacking skills now. Let's let our hackers ***** the gate, so it's possible to jump someone in invulnaspace. Actually, gate locking/unlocking could be a useful feature in general, but I digress.

I quite like complexes, and think the competitive resource model is quite a good one. However it quickly becomes frustrating when the 'competition' is one of 'who can grab the first key just after downtime'.

Can't really comment on 'sploiting or whatever. I just think that's lame and spoils the game.

---

The Great Spylord states that anything that makes complex's harder increases the value of the loot, and the loot the exploiters have already hidden away! And complex farmers will leave a npc alt in every system to check.

---

Originally by: Demonica II

---

Originally by: Great Spylord

---

Edited by: Great Spylord on 25/09/2006 10:17:49
Whilst preparing a seminar on the importance of overseeres in the diet of podding complex runners, The Great Spylord notice's a letter landing on his doormat. It was a 1' radius letter 'o', probably the one the Great Spylord had stolen from the illuminated sign from the new Tesco's in South London. Upon closer examination, The Great Spylord notices a reflection of James Lyrus leaving the shower who yells out the following scream -

Originally by: James Lyrus

---

Edited by: James Lyrus on 25/09/2006 10:03:50
So, suggestion:

Move the complexes regularly (IMO, each time completed, somewhere else in the constellation), and don't beacon their entry point. Maybe even somewhere else in the region, or even somewhere else entirely. This might (or might not) require shifting rewards a bit.

Keys, fine, however we do have hacking skills now. Let's let our hackers ***** the gate, so it's possible to jump someone in invulnaspace. Actually, gate locking/unlocking could be a useful feature in general, but I digress.

I quite like complexes, and think the competitive resource model is quite a good one. However it quickly becomes frustrating when the 'competition' is one of 'who can grab the first key just after downtime'.

Can't really comment on 'sploiting or whatever. I just think that's lame and spoils the game.

---

The Great Spylord states that anything that makes complex's harder increases the value of the loot, and the loot the exploiters have already hidden away! And complex farmers will leave a npc alt in every system to check.

---

Making all complexes spawn as fast as the bugged one is an extremely bad enough, complexes already give enough reward to those who run them, it doesn't need to be made 10x bigger.

---

Originally by: Deja Thoris

---

I'm pretty certain CCP already has oodles of metrics they measure.

Theres so many questions you can ask it becomes a question of distilling it down to a useful and manageable chunk.

I can also almost guarantee that 2 months ago if someone put 100 suggestions for "metrics" in front of the dev's no-one would have cared about the no. of overseers effects dropped. It just never seemed important (and look where it got them)

Imo just banning players that are active 23/7 would stop this and it's surely easy to do.

---

Originally by: Joerd Toastius

---

Originally by: Deja Thoris

---

I'm pretty certain CCP already has oodles of metrics they measure.

Theres so many questions you can ask it becomes a question of distilling it down to a useful and manageable chunk.

I can also almost guarantee that 2 months ago if someone put 100 suggestions for "metrics" in front of the dev's no-one would have cared about the no. of overseers effects dropped. It just never seemed important (and look where it got them)

Imo just banning players that are active 23/7 would stop this and it's surely easy to do.

---

The obvious solution is, where practical, just to log everything, do a one-time sanity check to check the current figures make sense, and then calculate averages for everything. If you take a DB dump say once a week and have a few powerful computers crunch it all week, and then put all the results in a DB, you should (I hope - I'm not a server tech) be able to get long-term averages for everything. You can then have the crunchers compare numbers to averages (and average ranges) as they go and automatically flag up anything anomalous.



Also, WRT complex farmers in general, the thing you have to remember is that unless you're prepared both to PvP the farmers and PvE the whole complex, if you turn up they'll safe, log and then come back in half an hour

---

Quote:

---

nerf the mission loots randomise the uber drops as for those items that will be sold theres enough ISK ingame to soak em up other than that some titans kililng stuff will create some fun till kali

---

Originally by: Great Spylord

---

The Great Spylord stats that you need a solution to the existing problem. That is prevention for future promebs, not a cure for the existing.

---

Originally by: Malachon Draco

---

Any reply from CCP would be welcome around now.

No need to go into specifics, just generally what kind of actions are being planned/prepared/carrier out.

- Banning of accounts and all connecting alt accounts?
- Seizing and destruction of assets, in either isk, corp/personal hangars, or deepspace safes?
- Potentially disbanding of corps/alliances heavily involved in said exploiting?

What do you intend to do CCP?

---

Originally by: Joerd Toastius

---

Originally by: Great Spylord

---

The Great Spylord stats that you need a solution to the existing problem. That is prevention for future promebs, not a cure for the existing.

---

Was I talking to you?

---

Originally by: LeMonde

---

The issue of the Angel 8/10 complex should be fixed now. More changes will be made to it in Kali, but right now the biggest problem has been eliminated.

---

Originally by: LeMonde

---

..... but right now the biggest problem has been eliminated.

---

Originally by: LeMonde

---

The issue of the Angel 8/10 complex should be fixed now. More changes will be made to it in Kali, but right now the biggest problem has been eliminated.

---

Originally by: Pizi

---

Originally by: LeMonde

---

..... but right now the biggest problem has been eliminated.

---

that translates to banned xploiters ?

---

Originally by: LeMonde

---

The issue of the Angel 8/10 complex should be fixed now. More changes will be made to it in Kali, but right now the biggest problem has been eliminated.

---

Originally by: LeMonde

---

The issue of the Angel 8/10 complex should be fixed now. More changes will be made to it in Kali, but right now the biggest problem has been eliminated.

---

Originally by: LeMonde

---

The issue of the Angel 8/10 complex should be fixed now. More changes will be made to it in Kali, but right now the biggest problem has been eliminated.

---

Originally by: LeMonde

---

The issue of the Angel 8/10 complex should be fixed now. More changes will be made to it in Kali, but right now the biggest problem has been eliminated.

---

Originally by: Boobahe

---

Edited by: Boobahe on 25/09/2006 15:09:21
Can i petition the exploiters for telling me "go F yourself" in local chat? yes he used the full F word, and it was a random outburst, i haven't even spoke a single word to them. Come to think of it, is this the kind of thing that someone who's just playing a "friendly game" would say to another player?

They think its me that petitioned them exploiting because i've been hanging around in local in a shuttle.

They know its a bug now because the bugs been fixed, instead of being sorry that they've exploited a bug, all they can do is tell the person that reported them to "go F yourself"...

---

Originally by: DETOVI

---

Since this bug was reported over a year ago, even on these forums, why was it not fixed and left for certain parties to exploit? for a year.

---

Originally by: Evil Thug

---

On more serious note.

Increase spawning rate of keyholders in 8\10. So, everyone who want to challenge this plex will be able to do so.

---

Originally by: Sir Erighan

---

Originally by: LeMonde

---

The issue of the Angel 8/10 complex should be fixed now. More changes will be made to it in Kali, but right now the biggest problem has been eliminated.

---

Thanks LeMonde. I'm sure everyone is glad to hear CCP is resolving the "issue",...



Thanks

---

Originally by: LeMonde

---

The issue of the Angel 8/10 complex should be fixed now. More changes will be made to it in Kali, but right now the biggest problem has been eliminated.

---

Originally by: Deadzone

---

Originally by: LeMonde

---

The issue of the Angel 8/10 complex should be fixed now. More changes will be made to it in Kali, but right now the biggest problem has been eliminated.

---

This is very good to hear LeMonde. But now the most serious part of the the whole problem is front and center.

What does CCP plan to do about the trillions of ISK and god-knows how much named loot was taken from these plexes during the x-amount of time is has been bugged?

---

Originally by: Mista Sexamalicious

---

Originally by: Sir Erighan

---

Originally by: LeMonde

---

The issue of the Angel 8/10 complex should be fixed now. More changes will be made to it in Kali, but right now the biggest problem has been eliminated.

---

Thanks LeMonde. I'm sure everyone is glad to hear CCP is resolving the "issue",...



Thanks

---

Now this happens to be the most gratifying bit of text I've happen to read throughout both threads.

Thank You Sir Erighan.

It is an issue being attended to. Like all other issues that arise. EVE is a game of perpetual evolution ( Eve-olution to be more precise). Nothing can be perfect in any universe. <-- That is a period there if you missed it.

---

Originally by: d026

---

Could we get at least a figure how much isk was generated trough this bugged complex and if its still in game?

---

Originally by: Deja Thoris

---

I'm pretty certain CCP already has oodles of metrics they measure.

Theres so many questions you can ask it becomes a question of distilling it down to a useful and manageable chunk.

I can also almost guarantee that 2 months ago if someone put 100 suggestions for "metrics" in front of the dev's no-one would have cared about the no. of overseers effects dropped. It just never seemed important (and look where it got them)

Imo just banning players that are active 23/7 would stop this and it's surely easy to do.

---

Originally by: Great Spylord

---

Originally by: Joerd Toastius

---

Originally by: Great Spylord

---

The Great Spylord stats that you need a solution to the existing problem. That is prevention for future promebs, not a cure for the existing.

---

Was I talking to you?

---

It matters not - The Great Spylord was talking to you!

---

Originally by: LeMonde

---

The issue of the Angel 8/10 complex should be fixed now. More changes will be made to it in Kali, but right now the biggest problem has been eliminated.

---

Originally by: Xorus

---

Not sure but capital ship's aren't allowed in deadspace and if you are able to get one in there please bug report it as i believe it was mentioned a while back that they are not supposed to be there

---

Originally by: Daroh

---

.....
Another great thing. We got a winners! They get banned.
....

Wbr Daroh.

---

Originally by: Daroh

---

Here am i. And here is my opinion.
8/10 was never bugged (for thouse who run it, not for all thouse n00bs whinners). You get in plex and start to farm it...you get _maximum_ 2bill for 23 hours non-stop sitting in plex (no sleep, no rest).

---

Quote:

---

I know thouse who got only 1 bill for 23 hours...thouse who call that huge isk may be never mined belts or even hunt rats in 0.0

---

Quote:

---

We got 600 ppl in alliance, ok, 300 active...if everyone of them want to farm 3 plexes we will have smth about 4 day in year for each. So 4-8 bil = 1 year. Bugged? OverISKed? ) Just lol.

---

Quote:

---

Another great thing. We got a winners! They get banned. For what? ) For great thing - exploit. "What exploit? Where?" - they asked...coz they even didnt know about any exploits in 8/10.

---

Quote:

---

Next time every thing you use can be called exploit and u will get ban without any warning. Ban for using not known exploit, without warning - may be we can call that thing exploit? I think thouse who ban like that are rly bugged and i hope CCP will fix them soon.

---

Originally by: Malachon Draco

---

Originally by: Daroh

---

Here am i. And here is my opinion.
8/10 was never bugged (for thouse who run it, not for all thouse n00bs whinners). You get in plex and start to farm it...you get _maximum_ 2bill for 23 hours non-stop sitting in plex (no sleep, no rest).

---

Right....It gives much more than 2b and you know it.

Quote:

---

I know thouse who got only 1 bill for 23 hours...thouse who call that huge isk may be never mined belts or even hunt rats in 0.0

---

When ratting or mining you can be attacked 23/7. The ability to be attacked at a plex is about 5 minutes every 23 hours? How is that comparable? And if I mine for 23 hours straight, I need 3 people at least: miner, hauler, tank.

Quote:

---

We got 600 ppl in alliance, ok, 300 active...if everyone of them want to farm 3 plexes we will have smth about 4 day in year for each. So 4-8 bil = 1 year. Bugged? OverISKed? ) Just lol.

---

You control eight 8/10 plexes. At 3b per plex per day that comes to 24b a day, 9000b a year.

Quote:

---

Another great thing. We got a winners! They get banned. For what? ) For great thing - exploit. "What exploit? Where?" - they asked...coz they even didnt know about any exploits in 8/10.

---

Excellent news. I know CCP won't tell us anything, but perhaps you would be so kind as to tell us how many members got banned and how much assets were seized.

Quote:

---

Next time every thing you use can be called exploit and u will get ban without any warning. Ban for using not known exploit, without warning - may be we can call that thing exploit? I think thouse who ban like that are rly bugged and i hope CCP will fix them soon.

---

I'll take my chances with CCP GMs any day over spending time in a game with obvious exploiters. Somehow they manage to instill a tad more confidence than you, I wonder why

---

Originally by: Gabriel Karade

---

Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 24/09/2006 14:54:03

I think its time to consider making complexes both hidden (i.e. require exploration), and appear in a different location, both in-system and in-constellation, each time it is destroyed (so that it cannot be bookmarked)

To 'control' a complex you would therefore have to be able to control the whole constellation and still have to explore the individual systems thoroughly to find it.

---

Originally by: Evil Thug

---

*snip* Removed reference to delted posts. -Ivan K

If you are blind - i presented my solution to current situation, while you were running around, screaming : "ban, ban, ban" and trying to blackmail CCP with "omg, i will lost all faith in you, if you don`t ban thee".

Increase spawning rate of keyholders, so everybody with enough dedication will be able to enter complex and challenge those guys, who entered this plex earlier. Problem solved

---

Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov

---

About the thread that was locked, it's still there, and it's even linked to in my OP in this thread - here it is. The problem with it "disappearing" is a forum bug which happens when you lock a previously stickied thread, as far as I can tell.

As for the intentions of this thread, it is a place to post your concerns, and provide comments and feedback on the issue, which several have done, providing construcitve comments on possible ways the complexes could work.
And again, neither CCP nor ISD wants the facts in any way hidden or swept under the rug - we (ISD) are just enforcing the forum rules. If you feel that our way of handling this is wrong, you can mail us and tell us, and we'll be happy to discuss it with you. As to what will happen with people who've taken advantage of the spawn rate, that's for the GMs to decide and the forums are not the place to provide such facts.

---

Originally by: Kor Tei

---

This coming from one of the biggest exploiting corps in the game.

---

Originally by: Budulai

---

Are you one of them, or what? How do you know if they are exploiting or not?

---

Originally by: Death Kill

---

Will we see an increase in faction battle ship prices?

---

Originally by: Lord WarATron

---

Originally by: Death Kill

---

Will we see an increase in faction battle ship prices?

---

Defenetly! The Supply of Mach's is cut - so prices will for sure rise.

---

Originally by: Malachon Draco

---

Originally by: Daroh

---

Another great thing. We got a winners! They get banned. For what? ) For great thing - exploit. "What exploit? Where?" - they asked...coz they even didnt know about any exploits in 8/10.

---

Excellent news. I know CCP won't tell us anything, but perhaps you would be so kind as to tell us how many members got banned and how much assets were seized.

---

Originally by: Death Kill

---

Edited by: Death Kill on 26/09/2006 14:13:37

Originally by: Budulai

---

Are you one of them, or what? How do you know if they are exploiting or not?

---

Its commonly known throughout EVE tbh. The good reputasion they had from the CA days is long gone.

---

Originally by: Razin

---

Originally by: Malachon Draco

---

Originally by: Daroh

---

Another great thing. We got a winners! They get banned. For what? ) For great thing - exploit. "What exploit? Where?" - they asked...coz they even didnt know about any exploits in 8/10.

---

Excellent news. I know CCP won't tell us anything, but perhaps you would be so kind as to tell us how many members got banned and how much assets were seized.

---

It looks like no one got banned and no ISK was removed. After all, if Ascendant Frontier members can allegedly ebay ISK with impunity, RA shouldnÆt be punished for farming complexes that havenÆt even been specifically identified as exploitable until the alleged imbalance was ôfixedö.

---

Originally by: Razin

---

ItÆs also commonly known that not all in Eve share the view that the only currently possible ambush tactics are an exploit.

---

Quote:

---

The rest is conjecture spread by sore losers and their bandwagon riders.

---

Originally by: Lord WarATron

---

ASCN ebaying isk? And there I was thinking that ASCN members used their isk to build up infastructure, which is why ASCN has a large number of POS's, Outposts, Motherships heck, even Titan(s). It also looks like ASCN did not exploit the complex either, even though 8 of the 9 complexes effected by the bug were run by RA/RAT, who certainly dont use their isk to build up infastructure.......

---

Originally by: Death Kill

---

Originally by: Razin

---

ItÆs also commonly known that not all in Eve share the view that the only currently possible ambush tactics are an exploit.

---

lol are you serious?

Quote:

---

The rest is conjecture spread by sore losers and their bandwagon riders.

---

Not at all.

---

Originally by: Death Kill

---

Originally by: Lord WarATron

---

Originally by: Death Kill

---

Will we see an increase in faction battle ship prices?

---

Defenetly! The Supply of Mach's is cut - so prices will for sure rise.

---

across the board or just mach's?

---

Originally by: Razin

---

Originally by: Lord WarATron

---

ASCN ebaying isk? And there I was thinking that ASCN members used their isk to build up infastructure, which is why ASCN has a large number of POS's, Outposts, Motherships heck, even Titan(s). It also looks like ASCN did not exploit the complex either, even though 8 of the 9 complexes effected by the bug were run by RA/RAT, who certainly dont use their isk to build up infastructure.......

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ASCN is probably the largest alliance in Eve with several thousand people (the alliances page on this website hasnÆt been updated in a while). Some abuse and exploit farming opportunities to build infrastructure, some to do ebay. Allegedly. It is common knowledge that ASCN uses threats of mass cancellations to get their way with CCP when faced with tough opponents or unfavorable situations. ThatÆs some pretty sick behavior for someone demanding bans and confiscations for those who bested them.

According to the myriad of alliances that keep losing wars to RA they do ôspamö POSÆs. Is that not expensive infrastructure? It is according to some coalition members who in the other thread blamed their mediocre performance in the war with RA on RAÆs deep pockets due to complex farming.

The whiners canÆt seem to get their story straight.

P.S. For the dim of mind: RA is not RAT and vice versa.

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Originally by: Sir Erighan

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...Top Secret information: CCP gave us the Titan when we surpassed the $1,000,000,000 sale of ISK on EBAY. We threw a huge party with CCP and the Titan was a gift. Also, after we sold all our ISK on EBAY we later bought it all back to pay for our outposts, capital ships and exotic dancers...


Where the hell did you (troll) come from? I love how you seem to have an undisputed knowledge of ASCN and all it's members. We're all Ebayers? We tell CCP to balance battles in our favor?

Please, do this thread, forum and entire gaming community a favor and go play WoW.

CPP, please delete all the trolling and keep this thread clean. You can delete my post as well

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Originally by: Daroh

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Hey, someone got much more then 2 bill from 8/10? LOLs
Hm, we control eigth 8/10??? rly? i didnt know. )

While mining belts u got stable income. (belts are stable, they wont run from u when u got link drop or smth). Also, almost in every system in 0.0 u can find NPC in belts = much more money then in plexes. Huge amount of rats, arkanor... - here is the exploit. ))) not in several plexes farmed
While farming plex a lot things can happen such as link drop and so u cant get back to plex - that is most frequent happen thing. So u have nothing if you got link dropped.

Im agree with Evil Thug, all arguments such as "you can farm plex safely while u cant farm belts safely and its exploit" can be solved very easy - decrease time of keyholder spawn to 50min...and thats all. Everyone happy? Why not?

---Alarma! and here is the hot news from 8/10!
now overseer spawn each 8 hours, keyholders spawn only twice per day and loot awesome! almost everytime overseers drops only 43mill boxes.
So now stable income from 8/10 plexes 200mill per day. awesome ) everybody now going to kill some enemies - more loot, more fun, more money

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Originally by: DukDodgerz

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Remember, it is worse to ban an innocent then to allow a low level offender to stay, so CCP are being careful.

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I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy

Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath

Originally by: Malachon Draco

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I'd expect CCP to find all those billions in loot stashed away and destroy them. 1000 AU safespots are illegal aren't they?

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Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

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Originally by: DukDodgerz

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Remember, it is worse to ban an innocent then to allow a low level offender to stay, so CCP are being careful.

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There's nothing 'low-level' about the effects of this bugged overseer.

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Originally by: Estelle Matsuko

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Without a statement concerning the number of accounts banned (even a ballpark figure), the player base is going to harbour doubts that CCP did anything meaningful.

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Originally by: d026

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Could we get at least a figure how much isk was generated trough this bugged complex and if its still in game?

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Originally by: Estelle Matsuko

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Without a statement concerning the number of accounts banned (even a ballpark figure), the player base is going to harbour doubts that CCP did anything meaningful.

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Originally by: George Hurst

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Originally by: Estelle Matsuko

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Without a statement concerning the number of accounts banned (even a ballpark figure), the player base is going to harbour doubts that CCP did anything meaningful.

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/signed.

Com'mon CCP do the right thing for your community like you alway do!

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Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov

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With regards to Kierons Thread being closed down, we are creating a new, fresh thread to avoid a 23-page thread with tons of trolls and rants. You may post your concerns and comments, but please remember to keep them polite, and constructive. Polite means no personal attacks, be it on groups of players or individuals. Let's not turn this into a witch-hunt. CCP is aware of the issue, and if you experience something that looks or feels like an exploit, bug-report it or in the case of observing others doing it, petition it, and the GMs will look into it.

Keep it constructive, and within the forum rules.

Any updates on this matter will be posted here.

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