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Getting people out of NPC corporations

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Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 832	Posted - 2015.01.29 15:41:36 - [1] - Quote Maybe the carrot approach with social corporations is not the best idea? How about something that should make people scream and gnash their teeth at first but should settle down with time? In order to fly Tech 2 & 3 ships, pirate, faction and capital ships you need to be in a private corporation. If you quit a private corporation and go back to an NPC one, you have 24 hours to move your ships before your license to fly them is revoked. This means the new players are free to stay there in T1 ships safely while there is a foot pushing veterans out the door. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Mag's the united 18954	Posted - 2015.01.29 15:44:40 - [2] - Quote I do not agree with forcing players out of NPC corps in this way. It's a players choice and style and there is already a tax punishment for doing so. No matter how you word it or what restrictions you suggest, I believe them to be bad. This is just more of that toxic approach I mentioned before. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Samillian Angry Mustellid The Periphery 689	Posted - 2015.01.29 16:38:23 - [3] - Quote Coercion is a crude and blunt instrument of very limited utility when your target can so easily move to a different product with less hoops to jump through. Not supported. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 943	Posted - 2015.01.29 17:07:31 - [4] - Quote Lead with the carrot, not with the stick. Encouraging proliferation of 1 man altcorps with even less social interaction than NPC is even worse than people staying in the NPC corps. At least then they have a shared chat channel with many others to maybe get them talking and involved with someone.
Zimmer Jones Aliastra Gallente Federation 89	Posted - 2015.01.29 17:09:47 - [5] - Quote It also punishes the new player. Day one of playing eve, a new player can buy all the bling he wants, and should be encouraged to do so. Its something to work towards. Players leaving player corporations for the first time already get a nasty shock. for the gallente example: CAS is a nurturing community(or so i have heard). upon leaving a player corp for the first time, CAS players are put into the scope. A bucket of cold water for the ones expecting a decent community. -1
Paranoid Loyd 3679	Posted - 2015.01.29 17:10:04 - [6] - Quote Seriously, you would do your campaign a favor by not posting ideas. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 1159	Posted - 2015.01.29 17:10:40 - [7] - Quote Yet another person who is in favor of force applied by the game to move players somewhere instead of providing them with something and instead of changing the way they play (please read my posts in the Screws to Gankers thread to understand what I am talking about) in order to get players for their victimization complex. Absolutely not supported.
FoxFire Ayderan 194	Posted - 2015.01.29 17:20:28 - [8] - Quote Not unless they also change War Dec mechanics. If a corporation can pay off CONCORD to "look the other way", then the targeted corporation should be able to counter-bribe CONCORD. Highest bribe wins. But you lose the money regardless. It can go back-and-forth until one side doesn't respond to the previous bribe in 24 hours. This would encourage more smaller corps to consolidate into larger corps with deeper pockets or at least form an alliance with bigger corps.
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 577	Posted - 2015.01.29 17:28:34 - [9] - Quote Says a lot about your idea of the social aspect of eve when you are forcing people into ti to play the game in fun ships....sadly none of it good. Maybe its me but what problem does this solve? Player wants to be in NPC...let them I say. Their game and sub money. Don't say no war decs. Lets cut the crap...if you want their ship popped and pod killed....you are better off with ganking. As chance of undock you all nice and WT red in system is slim to none. I won't blame them either. Neut logi and neut fleet booster too common to assume its just one wt in system. Gank you get the element of surprise at least
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 7209	Posted - 2015.01.29 17:59:33 - [10] - Quote OP's "penalty" is WAY too stiff. It is a better idea to just gradually increase the NPC corp tax (up to a maximum of 25%) over the course of a few months, starting from 0% for brand new players. Additionally... - creating a player corp should cost actual ISK... to make it more of an investment (so creating multiple "shell corps" can potentially be expensive) and set a (small) barrier of entry for newbies (so they don't create a corporation for giggles and find out the hard way why an "all newbie corp" is a bad idea). 50 million ISK would not be unreasonable considering that it is the minimum amount required to declare war. - in lieu of the above... a "social corp" would be introduced as a new mechanic. "Social Corps" have a common chat channel, a "banner," and cannot be wardecced... but they will have none of the perks of an actual corporation (POS, POCO, corp tax, corp wallet, corp hanger, etc) and must submit to a 5-10% NPC tax. - the tax system in EVE would be revamped to apply to every activity... including LP, Reprocessing Minerals, Market Orders, etc. NOTE: Current Market and Reprocessing taxes would be modified accordingly so that there is no effective increase in taxes overall. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"

Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 164	Posted - 2015.01.29 18:07:01 - [11] - Quote Why do you think 1 man corps are good for the game?
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 832	Posted - 2015.01.29 18:18:03 - [12] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Amendment: If I think about it, let's apply some force, shall we? But in the correct area: Whoever engages in an illegal activity, get's booted from the NPC corp they are in. While NPC corps are indeed after our money, they do not want to be connected with illegal activities against their other customers. This should force some people out of NPC corps who have no business there to begin with. This makes sense. Lady Rift wrote: Why do you think 1 man corps are good for the game? How do you think one man corps can be solved? CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Altirius Saldiaro Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 282	Posted - 2015.01.29 19:21:54 - [13] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Maybe the carrot approach with social corporations is not the best idea? How about something that should make people scream and gnash their teeth at first but should settle down with time? In order to fly Tech 2 & 3 ships, pirate, faction and capital ships you need to be in a private corporation. If you quit a private corporation and go back to an NPC one, you have 24 hours to move your ships before your license to fly them is revoked. This means the new players are free to stay there in T1 ships safely while there is a foot pushing veterans out the door. No.
Antonio Steele Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2015.01.29 19:47:24 - [14] - Quote As a member of CAS for over 2 years I can say that a major part of why people stay in CAS at least is that we actually are organized and have events and stuff, and are a fun community that works together. We organize monthly nullsec roams with a swarm of cheap ships and take down some pretty juicy targets at times. We help foster new players and teach them about null and low sec and PVP and whatnot. We have players that have been here for years and stick around to foster the newer players and teach them about eve, and not just about highsec carebearing. I love the community we have built in CAS. I would love to try a player corp, but not ever being able to return to CAS once I leave is what keeps me there. If I had the ability to return to my original NPC corp rather than the scope I would be very inclined to try a player corp, and heck I might even stay out of NPC corps. Also, screwing over NPC corps would quite possibly be the death of EVE. PVP and nullsec alliances may be what gets publicized and all, but a major backbone of EVE revenue wise is the highsec carebears who often are in NPC corps. Screw over NPC corps and watch subscription levels plummet. You might enjoy your victory for a bit, but not after EVE goes under. I'll make a counter proposal. Allow players to return to their starter corps once they leave player corps rather than forcing them into places like the scope. It doesn't really hurt things as either way they get the NPC corp perks and penalties, and it would possibly get a lot of people like me (and there are many of us) to try players corps, and quite possibly stay. What's the worst that could happen?
ashley Eoner 400	Posted - 2015.01.29 19:48:23 - [15] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Maybe the carrot approach with social corporations is not the best idea? How about something that should make people scream and gnash their teeth at first but should settle down with time? In order to fly Tech 2 & 3 ships, pirate, faction and capital ships you need to be in a private corporation. If you quit a private corporation and go back to an NPC one, you have 24 hours to move your ships before your license to fly them is revoked. This means the new players are free to stay there in T1 ships safely while there is a foot pushing veterans out the door. Why do you care if people leave a character in NPC corps?
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3373	Posted - 2015.01.29 20:06:16 - [16] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Lady Rift wrote: Why do you think 1 man corps are good for the game? How do you think one man corps can be solved? As the CEO of a one-man corporation, why does my playstyle need to be "solved"? I left my rookie corporation to get away from the more toxic personalities that were in it, left the corporation I joined when it was clear that said corporation was never going to actually do anything (let alone be of any aid to my goals) and formed my own. I have plenty of social interaction with others via my chat channels and the miners in my home system whom I tend to deliberately annoy. All of this is off-point though, so I ask again: Why does my playstyle need to be solved? Perhaps you are suggesting that I should be forced to choose between joining someone else's corporation (with all that it entails) or leaving EVE permanently?
Mag's the united 18958	Posted - 2015.01.29 20:06:33 - [17] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Seriously, you would do your campaign a favor by not posting ideas. It's why I wish they carry on. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
FoxFire Ayderan 194	Posted - 2015.01.29 20:37:28 - [18] - Quote Antonio Steele wrote: I'll make a counter proposal. Allow players to return to their starter corps once they leave player corps rather than forcing them into places like the scope. It doesn't really hurt things as either way they get the NPC corp perks and penalties, and it would possibly get a lot of people like me (and there are many of us) to try players corps, and quite possibly stay. What's the worst that could happen? Counter-counter proposal. Allow players to choose the NPC corp they'd like to be in (contingent on personal standings). Each can have their own plusses and minuses. Maybe one has much higher taxes (say 20%), but you get quicker CONCORD response where they have offices. Maybe one has much lower taxes and CONCORD takes longer to arrive to a ganking, or they are open to limited War Decs. One corp has a better community like your NPC corp, so that could be an appeal. They might have different modifiers to standing increases with various factions. Different market tax rates. Different locations and stations of course. I'm sure there would be a number of ways to balance the good and bad of each NPC corp.
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 944	Posted - 2015.01.29 20:38:56 - [19] - Quote FoxFire Ayderan wrote: Antonio Steele wrote: I'll make a counter proposal. Allow players to return to their starter corps once they leave player corps rather than forcing them into places like the scope. It doesn't really hurt things as either way they get the NPC corp perks and penalties, and it would possibly get a lot of people like me (and there are many of us) to try players corps, and quite possibly stay. What's the worst that could happen? Counter-counter proposal. Allow players to choose the NPC corp they'd like to be in (contingent on personal standings). Each can have their own plusses and minuses. Maybe one has much higher taxes (say 20%), but you get quicker CONCORD response where they have offices. Maybe one has much lower taxes and CONCORD takes longer to arrive to a ganking, or they are open to limited War Decs. One corp has a better community like your NPC corp, so that could be an appeal. They might have different modifiers to standing increases with various factions. Different market tax rates. Different locations and stations of course. I'm sure there would be a number of ways to balance the good and bad of each NPC corp. How about we NOT encourage people to willfully stay in NPC corps, alright?
FoxFire Ayderan 194	Posted - 2015.01.29 20:45:02 - [20] - Quote Anhenka wrote: How about we NOT encourage people to willfully stay in NPC corps, alright? With people actively choosing their NPC corps they wouldn't remain strictly NPC corps because you'd wind up having more people with similar interests and play styles in various NPC corps. Which would foster a sense of community in those NPC corps. Maybe if they then want the additional perks of a player run corp they decided to start one.

Dradis Aulmais By Light and Banner's Fallen 680	Posted - 2015.01.29 20:45:26 - [21] - Quote Grrr Cant get people out of NPC Corp Grr CSM 10: Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Jenshae chrioptera Do No Vote For: Tora Bushido, Bobmon
FoxFire Ayderan 194	Posted - 2015.01.29 20:57:51 - [22] - Quote Dradis Aulmais wrote: Grrr Cant get people out of NPC Corp Grr Maybe. But then they'd have to address some of the reasons players choose to stay in them. The War Dec mechanic is my biggest problem. I used to be in EVE University which I loved (they are a great community), but they are constantly under War Dec now, and it gets tiresome having to look over your shoulder every instance you're undocked. It's bad enough keeping an eye out for being ganked. The E-Uni enjoys having the occasional War Dec. It's good training. But to rarely if ever have a let up from it, kinda sucks. Yet they have (somewhat) deep pockets (which would be much deeper if they raised the taxes above 0.1% ), so they ought to be able to buy some protection from War Decs for a period of time. If that were the case I'd still be there. It was more enjoyable when you had War Dec time and the rules which go along with that, and peaceful times and the less restrictive rules for that. Now that it's constant War Decs they had to eliminate those more restrictive rules (which are good training for being War Decced) because otherwise corp members would be continually under them.
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 165	Posted - 2015.01.29 20:58:25 - [23] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Amendment: If I think about it, let's apply some force, shall we? But in the correct area: Whoever engages in an illegal activity, get's booted from the NPC corp they are in. While NPC corps are indeed after our money, they do not want to be connected with illegal activities against their other customers. This should force some people out of NPC corps who have no business there to begin with. This makes sense. Lady Rift wrote: Why do you think 1 man corps are good for the game? How do you think one man corps can be solved? I don't have a way nor do i think they are a real problem currently. But this would force more people to create them.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 1981	Posted - 2015.01.29 21:31:14 - [24] - Quote If you actually want to discourage long term NPC corp membership you'd be better off adding incentives for players to be and remain in corporations. If you want to add penalties to NPC corps it's not reasonable to be that heavy handed. Making the tax slightly larger and increasing its applicability would be a more palatable approach, time limiting membership of starter corps and having penalties not apply to those corps is also something you might want to consider.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 713	Posted - 2015.01.29 22:49:31 - [25] - Quote Eve players: Furiously defending the 'sandbox' whilst yelling that everyone else is playing in it wrong since 2003.
Syn Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 85	Posted - 2015.01.29 23:31:23 - [26] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Maybe the carrot approach with social corporations is not the best idea? How about something that should make people scream and gnash their teeth at first but should settle down with time? In order to fly Tech 2 & 3 ships, pirate, faction and capital ships you need to be in a private corporation. If you quit a private corporation and go back to an NPC one, you have 24 hours to move your ships before your license to fly them is revoked. This means the new players are free to stay there in T1 ships safely while there is a foot pushing veterans out the door. Eve is a sandbox...if I choose to stay in a NPC corp its none of your business.
ashley Eoner 403	Posted - 2015.01.29 23:39:02 - [27] - Quote Syn Shi wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Maybe the carrot approach with social corporations is not the best idea? How about something that should make people scream and gnash their teeth at first but should settle down with time? In order to fly Tech 2 & 3 ships, pirate, faction and capital ships you need to be in a private corporation. If you quit a private corporation and go back to an NPC one, you have 24 hours to move your ships before your license to fly them is revoked. This means the new players are free to stay there in T1 ships safely while there is a foot pushing veterans out the door. Eve is a sandbox...if I choose to stay in a NPC corp its none of your business. Like afkalt said... it's only a sandbox as long as you're doing what I want you to do :P
Iain Cariaba 986	Posted - 2015.01.29 23:42:25 - [28] - Quote FoxFire Ayderan wrote: Dradis Aulmais wrote: Grrr Cant get people out of NPC Corp Grr Maybe. But then they'd have to address some of the reasons players choose to stay in them. The War Dec mechanic is my biggest problem. I used to be in EVE University which I loved (they are a great community), but they are constantly under War Dec now, and it gets tiresome having to look over your shoulder every instance you're undocked. It's bad enough keeping an eye out for being ganked. The E-Uni enjoys having the occasional War Dec. It's good training. But to rarely if ever have a let up from it, kinda sucks. Yet they have (somewhat) deep pockets (which would be much deeper if they raised the taxes above 0.1% ), so they ought to be able to buy some protection from War Decs for a period of time. If that were the case I'd still be there. It was more enjoyable when you had War Dec time and the rules which go along with that, and peaceful times and the less restrictive rules for that. Now that it's constant War Decs they had to eliminate those more restrictive rules (which are good training for being War Decced) because otherwise corp members would be continually under them. Your whole idea of being able to counter-bribe Concord is simply bad. I'm willing to bet I make more isk with two of my alts than a lot of highsec mining corps do, so tell me what would keep me from outbidding them for Concord to ignore me shooting them. Your idea is nothing more than he who has the biggest wallet wins. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11543	Posted - 2015.01.30 00:13:05 - [29] - Quote I've been against NPC corps for years, and I have campaigned for them to have higher tax rates for any player older than 60 days, etc. But this is a terrible idea that handcuffs player freedom. And I'm beginning to think (well, I've thought this for a while actually), that the OP is utterly incapable of having a non-godawful idea. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3378	Posted - 2015.01.30 01:30:37 - [30] - Quote FoxFire Ayderan wrote: Anhenka wrote: How about we NOT encourage people to willfully stay in NPC corps, alright? With people actively choosing their NPC corps they wouldn't remain strictly NPC corps because you'd wind up having more people with similar interests and play styles in various NPC corps. Which would foster a sense of community in those NPC corps. Maybe if they then want the additional perks of a player run corp they decided to start one. I can tell you've never been in CAS.



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