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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1165
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Posted - 2015.03.27 00:22:57 -
[241] - Quote
Ra'Shyne Viper wrote:People stay in npc because of war dec simple as that, until they remove war dec people will stay in npc They are sidelining supers, removing fighter assist, changing SOV.
At some point they will look at High Sec and see how unbalanced it is.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
207
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Posted - 2015.03.27 01:03:53 -
[242] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:At some point they will look at High Sec and see how unbalanced it is.
No doubt about that, problem is you may not like the outcome as CCP continues to look at the CASH bottom line and how a high sec free of worthless war decs could play a large role in that. So as they say watch out what you wish for. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1166
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Posted - 2015.03.27 01:47:49 -
[243] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:At some point they will look at High Sec and see how unbalanced it is.
No doubt about that, problem is you may not like the outcome as CCP continues to look at the CASH bottom line and how a high sec free of worthless war decs could play a large role in that. So as they say watch out what you wish for. They are looking at it from this point of view:
The average Null Sec veteran is 5 years.
The average High Sec veteran only lasts 1.5 years.
Therefore, High Sec is bored with conflict happening between the wrong people.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2566
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Posted - 2015.03.27 02:02:00 -
[244] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Therefore, High Sec is bored with conflict happening between the wrong people.
Or more highsec players need to be exposed to space violence.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1166
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Posted - 2015.03.27 02:08:20 -
[245] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Therefore, High Sec is bored with conflict happening between the wrong people. Or more highsec players need to be exposed to space violence. Yes, from 6 or 8 months old to a year or 14 months old before they quit.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
207
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Posted - 2015.03.27 14:45:21 -
[246] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:At some point they will look at High Sec and see how unbalanced it is.
No doubt about that, problem is you may not like the outcome as CCP continues to look at the CASH bottom line and how a high sec free of worthless war decs could play a large role in that. So as they say watch out what you wish for. They are looking at it from this point of view: The average Null Sec veteran is 5 years. The average High Sec veteran only lasts 1.5 years.
I see no relevance to this statistic. How long an average player lasts in high versus nul is not relevant, what is relevant is how many of each type of player are in the game each month when CCP collects the cash.
IF high sec has the largest paying player base on a month to month basis does it matter one little bit if those are all new players every month or players that have been in the game a long period of time?
CCP often posts many statistics about us players, the one that I have never seen is perhaps the most crucial to these arguments and that is a comparison of where the cash comes from. Do the players in nul pay more cash in subs and buy more plex, or do the high sec players pay more cash in subs and buy more plex? Casue in the end it is all about the cash.
I often wonder what is the problem with having a nearly 100% safe limited in size region of space anyway?
I wonder how many of those 1.5 year high sec players would stick around and pay subscriptions if they had this nearly 100% safe area?
Personally I would like to see CCP add just such an area to the EvE universe as a way of attracting these WoW style of players simply as a source of cash they could use to make the rest of the game better for the rest of us. Yes I know the whole EvE is a game of shooting people and things and if they do not like it they should leave, and all I can say to this is it is extremely short sighted. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1167
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Posted - 2015.03.27 16:23:00 -
[247] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
The average Null Sec veteran is 5 years.
The average High Sec veteran only lasts 1.5 years.
I see no relevance to this statistic. . The relevance is that EVE can be played for 5 years on average, so they want more of the High Sec people to play more of the game and pay longer, that gives a more stable revenue and would increase the number of players and accounts over time.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
99
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Posted - 2015.03.27 16:57:22 -
[248] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:NPC corps + High Sec + veterans = too little risk for too much reward.
Can you expand on what you consider a "veteran"? Is it anybody who has subbed? A six month player? A two year player?
Also, what activities are they performing that brings in this reward? IIRC, you've previously stated it was Incursions. Wouldn't you then be better off advocating for the nerf of highsec Incursions, rather than NPC corps which is a playstyle that extends into null and low?
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1167
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Posted - 2015.03.27 18:42:40 -
[249] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:NPC corps + High Sec + veterans = too little risk for too much reward.
Can you expand on what you consider a "veteran"? About to get busy so quick reply. Can fly any of these:
T2 cruisers, battle cruiser, battleship,
T3 Destroyers, cruisers
Capitals
T2 Indy
Exhumers
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Anhenka
Infinite Point
Nulli Secunda
1315
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Posted - 2015.03.27 18:52:59 -
[250] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Eli Stan wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:NPC corps + High Sec + veterans = too little risk for too much reward.
Can you expand on what you consider a "veteran"? About to get busy so quick reply. Can fly any of these: T2 cruisers, battle cruiser, battleship, T3 Destroyers, cruisers Capitals T2 Indy Exhumers
12 Whole days to a confessor!
So what, a month to a t2 Indy? Less? Evemon says 24.
45 days to a Skiff!
50 to a HAC!
These.... are not veterans.
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
189
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Posted - 2015.03.27 19:20:14 -
[251] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Eli Stan wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:NPC corps + High Sec + veterans = too little risk for too much reward.
Can you expand on what you consider a "veteran"? About to get busy so quick reply. Can fly any of these: T2 cruisers, battle cruiser, battleship, T3 Destroyers, cruisers Capitals T2 Indy Exhumers 12 Whole days to a confessor! So what, a month to a t2 Indy? Less? Evemon says 24. 45 days to a Skiff! 50 to a HAC! These.... are not veterans.
50 to sit in a HAC? or to actually be able to decent fit and fly it? |
Anhenka
Infinite Point
Nulli Secunda
1316
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Posted - 2015.03.27 20:04:40 -
[252] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:50 to sit in a HAC? or to actually be able to decent fit and fly it?
Let's not pretend that new players wait to fly something until they can fit it well.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1169
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Posted - 2015.03.28 01:11:44 -
[253] - Quote
ISK and ships to make ISK.
If a newbie is living by pirating in a Confessor then I say they graduated early. 
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Anhenka
Infinite Point
Nulli Secunda
1318
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Posted - 2015.03.28 02:19:12 -
[254] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:ISK and ships to make ISK. If a newbie is living by pirating in a Confessor then I say they graduated early.
Wait, when did our hypothetical newbie suddenly start being a pirate and making a living through piracy?
That's the 0.0001% of new players.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
897
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Posted - 2015.03.28 02:48:12 -
[255] - Quote
I want to force the puppet master wannabees to stop posting in this thread as much as they want to force folks out of npc corps.
If we did this, it would make the game better. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1169
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Posted - 2015.03.28 03:08:55 -
[256] - Quote
As much as I hate it, life expectancy of a High Sec bear is 1.5 years while a Null sec bear is 5 years.
Safety, isolation, lack of group identity, boredom and so forth. They need a push out of the comfortable nest.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Galison
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2015.03.28 04:02:04 -
[257] - Quote
You keep bringing up life expectancy were are your numbers from? beyond that theres way more people sitting in and enjoying highsec if not ccp would have changed it as odd as it is I know people that like nothing more to sit in quiet systems and mine yes I personally think these people are mentally ill but meh its how THEY choose to spend their time in game a game mind you that they PAY for to sandbox how THEY choose. This keepscoming down to YOU aren't happy with how highsec is guess what that's your choice but it doesn't mean your ideas should override anyone elses ideas. Untill you personally pay for everyone elses account you you have no say in how they choose to play absent you getting off yoru ass and going to high sec to fore your play style onto them period. Get off your soap box and stop tring to poush your ideas on how highsec which you don't seem to be in anyways operates ccp clearly doenst agree or they would have changed how it works long ago. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1169
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Posted - 2015.03.28 04:12:41 -
[258] - Quote
Not the right link but close enough - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/EVE_playing_behaviour
CCP will eventually get around to High Sec while revamping the game. Hopefully we can avert a Fozzie Sov disaster.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
210
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Posted - 2015.03.28 05:01:01 -
[259] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Nice link but it fails miserably when used as a tool to support your claims.
First there is no indication in any of this information if these players are in high, low or nul so this link does not answer the question you were asked about what is the source of your information.
"There are more players who prefer to play solo than players that play as part of a group in EVE Universe."
In fact the stats show us that 55% of all of the players in EvE either play solo exclusively, or play solo most of the time.
Expand that to the next step and include those who play solo and in groups equally and you have accounted for 80% of the players in EvE. Even if we add the players that split group and solo play equally you would still be in the minority at 45% of the players.
Moving this back to your arguments that high sec players are more likely to play solo then this link proves what many of us have been saying all along and that is the simple fact that the majority of people that play EvE call high sec home.
And so, while I have no doubt that CCP will get around to changes to high sec at some point in the future, the stats in this link make it even more obvious to an intelligent person that those changes will not make high sec a more dangerous place, and they will not make it a place the tries to force a group game play style. To do so would go against common sense and the need to preserve your largest paying player base.
Oh and thank you for providing the stats needed to counter many of your arguments. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
897
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Posted - 2015.03.28 06:31:12 -
[260] - Quote
Ganking in HS is a big part of the problem. It's like alcoholism and beating your children - it's getting passed down through generations.
Elite HS gankers gank some noobs - outcomes:
1. noob quits game
2. noob 'learns' and becomes a ganker - outcomes:
1. low skill noob taught to gank by low tallent vet = low skill and low tallent ganker ganking noobs
2. low skil and low tallent noob gets bored - outcomes:
1. low skill and low tallent noob quits game
2. low skil and low tallent noob joins non-elite pvp group that doesn't do low tallent empire ganking - actual pvp pilot is born.
There are a lot of off ramps between getting ganked in empire as a noob and becoming a pvp pilot. It's a really poor business model. The leet empire 'pvp' folks that club baby seals all day only pull in and retain a few low tallent pilots. Most quit and a very few go on to be actual pvp pilots. My assumptions is that the noobs destined to become great pvp pilots would find their way wether they got ganked by the empire 'teachers' or not.
If leet HS gankers really wanted to teach newbros how to pvp they would:
1. Actually learn how to pvp
2. Teach through mentoring and actual instruction (not by curb stomping a baby seal and then proclaiming they are doing the game a favor)
If we could get rid of the current rash of low tallent noob ganking, then I think more folks would find their way in eve and hang around to be a part of it. |
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Anhenka
Infinite Point
Nulli Secunda
1319
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Posted - 2015.03.28 06:57:30 -
[261] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: ~snip~
On a side note, that survey is from three years ago.
Also rather deceptive in it's options.
I'm a base line grunt for a nullsec coalition, and yet I still would say I "usually play solo, but sometimes play as part of a group"
After all, I don't spend the majority of my time in EVE actively in fleets with others.
P.S: If you go search around, there were some numbers released at fanfest that would support various facets of peoples arguments regarding new player retention and PvP involvement.
And they wouldn't be three years out of date. |
Mag's
the united
19180
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Posted - 2015.03.28 07:49:53 -
[262] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Ganking in HS is a big part of the problem. It's like alcoholism and beating your children - it's getting passed down through generations.
Elite HS gankers gank some noobs - outcomes:
1. noob quits game
2. noob 'learns' and becomes a ganker - outcomes:
1. low skill noob taught to gank by low tallent vet = low skill and low tallent ganker ganking noobs
2. low skil and low tallent noob gets bored - outcomes:
1. low skill and low tallent noob quits game
2. low skil and low tallent noob joins non-elite pvp group that doesn't do low tallent empire ganking - actual pvp pilot is born.
There are a lot of off ramps between getting ganked in empire as a noob and becoming a pvp pilot. It's a really poor business model. The leet empire 'pvp' folks that club baby seals all day only pull in and retain a few low tallent pilots. Most quit and a very few go on to be actual pvp pilots. My assumptions is that the noobs destined to become great pvp pilots would find their way wether they got ganked by the empire 'teachers' or not.
If leet HS gankers really wanted to teach newbros how to pvp they would:
1. Actually learn how to pvp
2. Teach through mentoring and actual instruction (not by curb stomping a baby seal and then proclaiming they are doing the game a favor)
If we could get rid of the current rash of low tallent noob ganking, then I think more folks would find their way in eve and hang around to be a part of it. Ignoring the obvious recent information we have been given, do you have any facts to support this diatribe against ganking?
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
898
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Posted - 2015.03.28 08:39:20 -
[263] - Quote
Well, we could ask them, but they've all quit. I'm not against ganking. I'm against ganking noobs. I'm against ganking covetors. It's not the act of ganking that is bad, it's all the low skill no tallent garbage running around in cats wonking on noobs.
If you bring down a 3 bil isk marauder in a mission hub - I'll be the first to high five you. Roast a guy in a freighter - big deal - if he's in game long enough to pilot a capital ship, he knows the deal.
Use a throw away alt in a dessie to club baby seals - you're a no tallent tool that had better not claim what you are doing is pvp or teaching the new players a valuable lesson. It's utter garbage to claim either.
Don't lump me in w/ the anti-ganking crowd. I just detest pvp posers and SENSELESS NO-TALENT ganking.
I hope we're clear now. I'm just calling crap game play.... well crap game play. |
Mag's
the united
19180
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Posted - 2015.03.28 08:44:36 -
[264] - Quote
So no facts then, just anecdotal and feelings. Glad we cleared that up.
Now go look at the recent information we have been given, (fanfest) then come back to me. 
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
898
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Posted - 2015.03.28 09:09:13 -
[265] - Quote
Mag's wrote:So no facts then, just anecdotal and feelings. Glad we cleared that up. Now go look at the recent information we have been given, (fanfest) then come back to me.
Your recent information doesn't prove anything. It's a collection of statistics that can be interpreted to suit your needs.
You or CCPs interpretation is also just what you feel the selected set of statistics represent.
When you can show me the actual exit comments, then what we will be dealing with is facts. Glad we cleared that up. Now go spin a few graphs however you like.
I'll stand by my opinion - no tallent sensless ganking is bad for the game. Well planned strategic or monetarily driven ganks are just fine. If you can't see the difference between the two cases and feel a need to hang your hat on 'all ganking is good for eve' and promotes players staying in the game, well you're entitled to your opinion.
I think we're at the point in earth history where if one poses a plausible possibility, many folks feel inclined to give in to what ever random notion that plausible possibility supports. I'm not one of those many folks. I don't care how many times you say ganking noobs is good for the game, what statistics you wrap it up in or any of that. No one likes losing in a game. No one likes losing w/out warning and very little understanding of what happened. New players just don't type in local how awesome it was to just have their stuff blown up in mere seconds for no apparent reason. THAT crap isn't good for any game.
Ganking is a part of eve. It goes to its very core and very spirit. Not only do I get that, but I'm also very good at suicide ganking. Just don't do it to noobs and then tell me it's good for the game. That would be a load of garbage.
TL/DR There's 2 kinds of ganking. One encompasses the very soul of our game (the good kind) and the other is clubbing baby seals (the bad kind). |
Olivias Lahoe
Black Market Imperium
3
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Posted - 2015.03.28 12:04:46 -
[266] - Quote
One of the worst ideas in a long time.
Once again, an example of controlling people wanting to make others play the game the way 'they' want, when they don't pay the other players subscription.
Do you get that? You don't pay for the players subscription so you have no say in the way they choose to play the game. And you shouldn't.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2571
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Posted - 2015.03.28 15:00:20 -
[267] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Ganking in HS is a big part of the problem.
Oooh, the rare, valid point from you. Yes, the lack of highsec ganking is a huge problem with regard to retaining players.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Mag's
the united
19182
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Posted - 2015.03.28 15:04:14 -
[268] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Mag's wrote:So no facts then, just anecdotal and feelings. Glad we cleared that up. Now go look at the recent information we have been given, (fanfest) then come back to me. Your recent information doesn't prove anything. It's a collection of statistics that can be interpreted to suit your needs. You or CCPs interpretation is also just what you feel the selected set of statistics represent. When you can show me the actual exit comments, then what we will be dealing with is facts. Glad we cleared that up. Now go spin a few graphs however you like. I'll stand by my opinion - no tallent sensless ganking is bad for the game. Well planned strategic or monetarily driven ganks are just fine. If you can't see the difference between the two cases and feel a need to hang your hat on 'all ganking is good for eve' and promotes players staying in the game, well you're entitled to your opinion. I think we're at the point in earth history where if one poses a plausible possibility, many folks feel inclined to give in to what ever random notion that plausible possibility supports. I'm not one of those many folks. I don't care how many times you say ganking noobs is good for the game, what statistics you wrap it up in or any of that. No one likes losing in a game. No one likes losing w/out warning and very little understanding of what happened. New players just don't type in local how awesome it was to just have their stuff blown up in mere seconds for no apparent reason. THAT crap isn't good for any game. Ganking is a part of eve. It goes to its very core and very spirit. Not only do I get that, but I'm also very good at suicide ganking. Just don't do it to noobs and then tell me it's good for the game. That would be a load of garbage. TL/DR There's 2 kinds of ganking. One encompasses the very soul of our game (the good kind) and the other is clubbing baby seals (the bad kind). Edit: we're off topic, i'm right and you're wrong. let's leave it at that and get back to how you experts can come up with a way to force eve players to play the way you want them to. KK thanks. Yea let's ignore the information that goes against your stance and move on.
Facts be damned.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Mag's
the united
19182
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Posted - 2015.03.28 15:05:00 -
[269] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Ganking in HS is a big part of the problem. Oooh, the rare, valid point from you. Yes, the lack of highsec ganking is a huge problem with regard to retaining players. I see what you did there. 
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12323
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Posted - 2015.03.28 15:05:17 -
[270] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Well, we could ask them, but they've all quit. I'm not against ganking. I'm against ganking noobs. I'm against ganking covetors. It's not the act of ganking that is bad, it's all the low skill no tallent garbage running around in cats wonking on noobs.
So you hate the game, then.
You know, because CCP has told us in no uncertain terms that newbies who get ganked are the most likely to stay in the game, and contribute to better player retention.
The only griefers here are your kind, who want to bore new players to death with the worst PvE in the industry. Meanwhile, the people you hate on with such vitriol are contributing more to the health of the game than you ever will.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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