Originally by: Forsch

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Are you sure you can not scramble it? I always thought scrambling was still possible if someone logs out.

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Originally by: RaTTuS

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It is the same as an emergancy warp ...
ccp would not be able to tell if it is a real disconnect or lamer tactic.

but when they log back in they'll warp back to the bubble.

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Originally by: Fubear

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Originally by: RaTTuS

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It is the same as an emergancy warp ...
ccp would not be able to tell if it is a real disconnect or lamer tactic.

but when they log back in they'll warp back to the bubble.

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I am sure that it would not be difficult for the client to sent a message to the server when soemone presses CTRL-Q.

Also, in a slower ship you can cancel warp before you r ship has finished aligning for the warp-back. I did it in an Indy after crashing in space.

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Originally by: Fubear

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Originally by: RaTTuS

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It is the same as an emergancy warp ...
ccp would not be able to tell if it is a real disconnect or lamer tactic.

but when they log back in they'll warp back to the bubble.

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I am sure that it would not be difficult for the client to sent a message to the server when soemone presses CTRL-Q.

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Originally by: The Slayer

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Much as I hate doing this - Can you really blame solo pilots from logging off when jumping into a camped gate? Its one thing logging off when there are even numbers and the chance at a fair fight, another thing entirely logging off when you jump into a gate with 10 bs's. Try having smaller gate camps and you might get pilots willing to fight you.

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Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

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Playing devil's advocate-

If a pilot enters a 0.0 region, and it is indeed camped, they say "oh, this is a bad idea" and log. They then STOP PLAYING because of a camp, which seems totally reasonable. So, the bubble succeeds in doing what it is supposed to do: prevent players from entering/leaving a system.

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Originally by: d026

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If you land in a bubble iwth your bs there is usualy no other chance than logg if you dont want to loose your ship! You simply just cant take it on with a well prepared gatecamp solo..

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Quote:

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Then why the heck would you warp in on the bubblecamp in the first place?

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Originally by: d026

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Quote:

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Then why the heck would you warp in on the bubblecamp in the first place?

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You dont always have intelligence that can tell you to not warp in... or what gate etc.. So somethimes you just land inone :) Never happened to you?:)

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/10/2006 12:25:23

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

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Playing devil's advocate-

If a pilot enters a 0.0 region, and it is indeed camped, they say "oh, this is a bad idea" and log. They then STOP PLAYING because of a camp, which seems totally reasonable. So, the bubble succeeds in doing what it is supposed to do: prevent players from entering/leaving a system.

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Huh?

If they get in and log out, they have entered the system, and then they just log back on later when the bubble is gone.

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Originally by: The Slayer

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Much as I hate doing this - Can you really blame solo pilots from logging off when jumping into a camped gate? Its one thing logging off when there are even numbers and the chance at a fair fight, another thing entirely logging off when you jump into a gate with 10 bs's. Try having smaller gate camps and you might get pilots willing to fight you.

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Originally by: Righteous Fury

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Eve is not about the old preying on the new, its about the smart preying on the utterly incompetent.

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Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

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Rina, he said Solo pilots.

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Originally by: The Slayer

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Much as I hate doing this - Can you really blame solo pilots from logging off when jumping into a camped gate? Its one thing logging off when there are even numbers and the chance at a fair fight, another thing entirely logging off when you jump into a gate with 10 bs's. Try having smaller gate camps and you might get pilots willing to fight you.

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Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

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Playing devil's advocate-

If a pilot enters a 0.0 region, and it is indeed camped, they say "oh, this is a bad idea" and log. They then STOP PLAYING because of a camp, which seems totally reasonable. So, the bubble succeeds in doing what it is supposed to do: prevent players from entering/leaving a system.

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Originally by: Rells

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Come on CCP. Its one thing to have someone emergency warp out when they loose connection but there have been an increasing number of large ships logging out if they are in a bubble.

Battleship jumps into a bubble and then jsut logs. You jump on him as he decloaks and he is stuck in the bubble but just warps away. Also if you toss 9 points on him, he warps away.

This is bullpucky to be honest and is becomming the cheese tactic of the new age. How much force does it take to kill a BS in 10 seconds again?

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/10/2006 12:25:23

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

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Playing devil's advocate-

If a pilot enters a 0.0 region, and it is indeed camped, they say "oh, this is a bad idea" and log. They then STOP PLAYING because of a camp, which seems totally reasonable. So, the bubble succeeds in doing what it is supposed to do: prevent players from entering/leaving a system.

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Huh?

If they get in and log out, they have entered the system, and then they just log back on later when the bubble is gone.

Originally by: d026

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If you land in a bubble iwth your bs there is usualy no other chance than logg if you dont want to loose your ship! You simply just cant take it on with a well prepared gatecamp solo..

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Then why the heck would you warp in on the bubblecamp in the first place?

Logging currently allows you to warp out even when scrambled. This is a bug, and using it is an exploit. Don't try to justify an exploit.

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Logging currently allows you to warp out even when scrambled. This is a bug, and using it is an exploit. Don't try to justify an exploit.

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Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker

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as long as NPCs in the lvl4 missions have a chance to scramble they wont remove the instant warp. if someone truely does loose connection in an honest linkdeath should they loose their ship just so pirates can have easier gate camps against plug pullers?

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Logging currently allows you to warp out even when scrambled. This is a bug, and using it is an exploit. Don't try to justify an exploit.

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Originally by: Oveur

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Internally dismissed as carebear whine, we quietly moved our Kestrels to another system.

Originally by: DuckM4n Vo

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OP, look at your own sig, it tells us to fight back and we did :P stop whining, logging off is unfair in the same way that gate camping is, be a better pirate

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Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker

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as long as NPCs in the lvl4 missions have a chance to scramble they wont remove the instant warp. if someone truely does loose connection in an honest linkdeath should they loose their ship just so pirates can have easier gate camps against plug pullers?

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Quote:

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Even if most ppl would camp solo others would still log. Its not "we log because you blob". Its "we log because we can".

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Originally by: Eve Hel

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better to be a cowerd a long life
than a Brave death dude hehe

on a seriously note, the whole gate camping boubble system as it is now, its the gangs of pirates lowscum or other type's of crimenels that got the advanges over the peacefull travellers miners and other kinds of non-combattens, if gate campers got it even more easy, it would be redichelessly close to imporseble to get around in 0.0,, and than pirate ppl's wish of getting more ppl to 0.0 would be a nope nope.

although i agree that the logg off is lame, but its a nessesary defence against a lame gate camping system

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Originally by: Tiny Tove

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Edited by: Tiny Tove on 02/10/2006 16:02:12
And while CCP are at it, they should ban every miner who logs off if you steal his ore just so you cannot steal any more.
Stop being ridiculous, if somebody doesn't want to play Eve with you and your legion of camping tards, that's THEIR business, not YOURS. Maybe that person wants to mine, but they're hardly likely to insist that YOU leave the camping alone for a life in the roids, and then Petition CCP when you refuse to play Eve with THEM.

When I warp into my first bubble, I will simply think. "I have no further wish to play this game this evening. I was having fun, but then I met some complete morons, so I'm going to do something else for the rest of the night" and I will log out. That is MY business, not YOURS and not CCP's. Just Get Over It. Somehow... any how... just find a way.

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Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde

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Originally by: Eve Hel

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better to be a cowerd a long life
than a Brave death dude hehe

on a seriously note, the whole gate camping boubble system as it is now, its the gangs of pirates lowscum or other type's of crimenels that got the advanges over the peacefull travellers miners and other kinds of non-combattens, if gate campers got it even more easy, it would be redichelessly close to imporseble to get around in 0.0,, and than pirate ppl's wish of getting more ppl to 0.0 would be a nope nope.

although i agree that the logg off is lame, but its a nessesary defence against a lame gate camping system

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You mean groups have a benefit over solo players. In a MMOG. Say it isn't so!

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Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde

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And when you roll a 6 and land on my Park Lane hotels will you just flip the board and walk away too?

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Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker

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as long as NPCs in the lvl4 missions have a chance to scramble they wont remove the instant warp. if someone truely does loose connection in an honest linkdeath should they loose their ship just so pirates can have easier gate camps against plug pullers?

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Originally by: Eve Hel

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it would be redichelessly close to imporseble to get around in 0.0

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Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde

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But that one person should know that without proper intelligence it's a possibility before he even clicks on the warp button. Everybody does or should know by now that most entrances to 0.0 are camped a good deal of the time. It's like crossing a road, at an accident blackspot, with your eyes closed.

I can travel through most chokepoints quite easily because I have a whole alliance of people giving out intelligence reports. I just have to ask 'What is the status of N-R' and I'll have a good reply before long. If I risk it without asking and end up losing my ship then I expect no sympathy, just a thwack on the back of the head for being a fool.

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Originally by: deadmaus

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Originally by: Eve Hel

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it would be redichelessly close to imporseble to get around in 0.0

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LOL My new sig.

But seriously if it was safe to travel around EVE without having to worry about being killed at camps etc a lot of the excitement and tension would be gone.
And so would I be.

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Originally by: Tyranical Teabagger

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I only think they should fix this if they make it so you can only drop a bubble in your sovereign territory and not just any randon 0.0 choke point of your choosing. They still hold their roll of helping alliances and large corps hold their space, but they have to have put some effort into it. As it is now anyone can jump into any system and drop one on a gate and that seems somehow wrong and greatly exacerbates the problem of choke points just to try and get into a crappy close to empire 0.0 system. Not that I've logged out to avoid a camp I just scout ahead in an intie on my second account, but my point still stands.

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Originally by: Splagada

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you logout, if targeted, your ship stays here. at all. never moves away till noone locks it anymore

you login, you stay in your safespot you joined when you safely logged out

no more login traps, no more logout tactics

is that this hard to implement?

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Originally by: Deva Blackfire

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So moral of the story: CCP (or at least GMs) dont care and approve this.

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Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde

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You've lost the battle before you exit a gate and see yourself inside a bubble though. It's a failure of intelligence that has placed you in that situation. It could just as easily be an interdictor or a couple of fast locking tacklers on the other side and the result would be the same. Some people would still log off and most would still justify it simply because they had no chance of survival.

If bubbles were removed or nerfed somehow (I assume we're talking about deployable bubbles) then the complaints would just turn to interdictors, then to fast locking tacklers, etc. The complaints would just shift while the main problem remains the same: Lack of intelligence. I'm not advocating a mechanical change to allow people to see what is ahead, my suggested solution is to simply make more friends.

There's an old saying that goes something like this: 'the victor is decided long before the battle begins'. That's more true in EVE (although the bloody lag throws a rather interesting random factor into the mix). Even the largest alliances can't take a break from eternal vigilance, show me a 0.0 Freighter Op without forward, backward scouts at a minimum and I'll show you some very juicy targets.

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Originally by: Mr Cleann

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I hate warp bubbles lol. personally i think the sentry guns should pop the generators when ever one is used near a jumpgate. IMHO they create a border line "unfair-advantage" lol mass murder. Fortunatly i dont use a ship that my ego cant afford to lose lol. Just wondering, Since the large warp bubbles have a 45km omnidirectional area of effect, has anyone ever tried to get one to surround a npc station in low sec. since the sentry guns dont fire at the gates it should stand to reason that you can do this to a station and get alot more unsuspecting victims.....

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Originally by: Tiny Tove

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But the way I see it, camping is completely utterly lame (can we say ghay?) in EVERY other game on the market. Yet some how, in Eve it has become "a useful relevant tactic employed by some of the l33ti3st players, and it's a very very good thing for Eve".

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Originally by: Mr Cleann

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I hate warp bubbles lol. personally i think the sentry guns should pop the generators when ever one is used near a jumpgate. IMHO they create a border line "unfair-advantage" lol mass murder. Fortunatly i dont use a ship that my ego cant afford to lose lol. Just wondering, Since the large warp bubbles have a 45km omnidirectional area of effect, has anyone ever tried to get one to surround a npc station in low sec. since the sentry guns dont fire at the gates it should stand to reason that you can do this to a station and get alot more unsuspecting victims.....

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Originally by: Tiny Tove

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But the way I see it, camping is completely utterly lame (can we say ghay?) in EVERY other game on the market.

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Originally by: Tiny Tove

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I know nothing about this situation

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Originally by: Eve Hel

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Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde

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But that one person should know that without proper intelligence it's a possibility before he even clicks on the warp button. Everybody does or should know by now that most entrances to 0.0 are camped a good deal of the time. It's like crossing a road, at an accident blackspot, with your eyes closed.

I can travel through most chokepoints quite easily because I have a whole alliance of people giving out intelligence reports. I just have to ask 'What is the status of N-R' and I'll have a good reply before long. If I risk it without asking and end up losing my ship then I expect no sympathy, just a thwack on the back of the head for being a fool.

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ohh we only talking about the choke points now,,,, mmkay those are the most lamest(thise are the lame PVPers) off all camps in EVE and yes i can get around those too a simple matter off pasient and using the intelligence opetunities.

i was more looking at the bouble camps longer out in 0.0 which has little to noo warnings too, those are not right if you ask me, not so much that you can make them,, that fait anough but the close to imporsebility to get through them,,, even with cloaking you'r under 1% to get though if the campers got a brain,,.

gate boubble's should be a thing that work in a balance it should not bee 100%:you'r trapped and it should not be 100% i just cloak through, as it is now its much more like 90% your'r trapped: not balance

log off in boubble: thats really lame i agree but without above issue is not balanced ppl dont really got a alternative..

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Originally by: RaTTuS

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but when they log back in they'll warp back to the bubble.

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Originally by: kieron

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The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

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Originally by: Oveur

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last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned.

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Originally by: The Slayer

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Much as I hate doing this - Can you really blame solo pilots from logging off when jumping into a camped gate?

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Originally by: kieron

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The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

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Originally by: Oveur

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last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned.

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Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

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Playing devil's advocate-

If a pilot enters a 0.0 region, and it is indeed camped, they say "oh, this is a bad idea" and log. They then STOP PLAYING because of a camp, which seems totally reasonable. So, the bubble succeeds in doing what it is supposed to do: prevent players from entering/leaving a system.

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Originally by: d'hofren

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Edited by: d''hofren on 02/10/2006 18:15:58

Originally by: Eve Hel

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Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde

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But that one person should know that without proper intelligence it's a possibility before he even clicks on the warp button. Everybody does or should know by now that most entrances to 0.0 are camped a good deal of the time. It's like crossing a road, at an accident blackspot, with your eyes closed.

I can travel through most chokepoints quite easily because I have a whole alliance of people giving out intelligence reports. I just have to ask 'What is the status of N-R' and I'll have a good reply before long. If I risk it without asking and end up losing my ship then I expect no sympathy, just a thwack on the back of the head for being a fool.

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ohh we only talking about the choke points now,,,, mmkay those are the most lamest(thise are the lame PVPers) off all camps in EVE and yes i can get around those too a simple matter off pasient and using the intelligence opetunities.

i was more looking at the bouble camps longer out in 0.0 which has little to noo warnings too, those are not right if you ask me, not so much that you can make them,, that fait anough but the close to imporsebility to get through them,,, even with cloaking you'r under 1% to get though if the campers got a brain,,.

gate boubble's should be a thing that work in a balance it should not bee 100%:you'r trapped and it should not be 100% i just cloak through, as it is now its much more like 90% your'r trapped: not balance

log off in boubble: thats really lame i agree but without above issue is not balanced ppl dont really got a alternative..

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You miss the entire point,

Bubble camps exist for two reasons:

a) To keep hostiles out of an area, for example homeland defence or preventing hostiles from forming up a large fleet.
b) To catch folks to cause war damage or earn money.

This is the way 0.0 works.

The bubble camp fills an important role and metagaming by exploiting the way your ship warps off when the client crashes or closes should be viewed as an exploit.

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Quote:

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you ever wonder id maybe the terroest had not though of that until you mentioned the idea?

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Quote:

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Think about the people that did fight you fairly. Think.... that were honorable and helped you out in times of need. Those are the real heroes of EVE.

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Originally by: Athren Soulsteal

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Edited by: Athren Soulsteal on 02/10/2006 19:06:31
Let me get this straight, all the people who have complained and called this tactic lame are upset that they were not able to gank a lone pilot and call the solo pilot lame while the complainers have webs, bubbles and 10 to 1 oddsà..

ROFLSMOMNà.

Before using the term ôlame tacticsö you should look in the mirror while your blob is sitting at the next camp.

And the last time I jumped into a bubble(s) I was lagged for 3 mins which, had I not been bringing ammo I had sold to the group (was blue), I would have been dead 2 min before being able to respond.

OH,, and thinks for the sharing that tip with the EVE forum.

Quote:

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you ever wonder that maybe the Terrorist had not though of that until you mentioned the idea?

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Originally by: Athren Soulsteal

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Edited by: Athren Soulsteal on 02/10/2006 19:06:31
Let me get this straight, all the people who have complained and called this tactic lame are upset that they were not able to gank a lone pilot and call the solo pilot lame while the complainers have webs, bubbles and 10 to 1 oddsà..

ROFLSMOMNà.

Before using the term ôlame tacticsö you should look in the mirror while your blob is sitting at the next camp.

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Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

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Originally by: Athren Soulsteal

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Edited by: Athren Soulsteal on 02/10/2006 19:06:31
Let me get this straight, all the people who have complained and called this tactic lame are upset that they were not able to gank a lone pilot and call the solo pilot lame while the complainers have webs, bubbles and 10 to 1 odds…..

ROFLSMOMN….

Before using the term “lame tactics” you should look in the mirror while your blob is sitting at the next camp.

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I'm almost entirely a solo player and have never camped in my life. I'm not a fan of the tactic, and I think in some ways it's a bad thing for the game. But Logging is still about the lamest thing possible because it's a *complete subversion* of everything important in the game.

It doesn't take isk.
It doesn't take skill points.
It doesn't take a single module.
It doesn't take a fitting plan.
It doesn't take skill.
It doesn't take experience.
It doesn't take planning.
It doesn't take teamwork.
It doesn't take intelligence.

All it takes is an on/off switch and it has the capability of defeating the efforts of players using any or all of the above. How is that not the very definition of 'lame'?

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Originally by: Eve Hel

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ya i can see were this is going you guys won't be happe/satisfied until you can sit 24/7 at a camp with you'r 20 other retards friend, and just target incoming targets hit the F1234 keys and feel all mighty, cause that most mean that you are a very skilled pirate, oh yes very skilled, no wounder that so many 14year old kids are doing it, it requires absolutely zero brain cells,,, and now ohnoes the targets loggs offs,,,, how rude, oh so sad for you guys.

if you want the prey too play fair/nice, you try and start doing it yourselves

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Originally by: Miss Overlord

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Originally by: Eve Hel

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ya i can see were this is going you guys won't be happe/satisfied until you can sit 24/7 at a camp with you'r 20 other retards friend, and just target incoming targets hit the F1234 keys and feel all mighty, cause that most mean that you are a very skilled pirate, oh yes very skilled, no wounder that so many 14year old kids are doing it, it requires absolutely zero brain cells,,, and now ohnoes the targets loggs offs,,,, how rude, oh so sad for you guys.

if you want the prey too play fair/nice, you try and start doing it yourselves

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stop whining join other alliances - PVP corps that take 30 battleships into such camps and wreck soem havoc

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Originally by: Swindy

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I wouldn't call Agony "pirates." As far as I know they have never asked for a ransom.

They just like blowing stuff up.

Can't blame them for that, it's how they get their fun (and they're pretty good at it too).

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Originally by: Complacency's Bane

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This has needed a fix forever, it wont be fixed because people would whine too much about having to escort, instead of solo, their freighters.

The replies to this thread are amusing though - the *exact* same replies, almost word-for-word, that were defending logging off/logging on an alt to disappear any ship in any situation in less then 20s. They were stupid arguments then, theyre stupid arguments now.

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Originally by: Raquel Smith

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Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

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Originally by: Athren Soulsteal

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Edited by: Athren Soulsteal on 02/10/2006 19:06:31
Let me get this straight, all the people who have complained and called this tactic lame are upset that they were not able to gank a lone pilot and call the solo pilot lame while the complainers have webs, bubbles and 10 to 1 oddsà..

ROFLSMOMNà.

Before using the term ôlame tacticsö you should look in the mirror while your blob is sitting at the next camp.

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I'm almost entirely a solo player and have never camped in my life. I'm not a fan of the tactic, and I think in some ways it's a bad thing for the game. But Logging is still about the lamest thing possible because it's a *complete subversion* of everything important in the game.

It doesn't take isk.
It doesn't take skill points.
It doesn't take a single module.
It doesn't take a fitting plan.
It doesn't take skill.
It doesn't take experience.
It doesn't take planning.
It doesn't take teamwork.
It doesn't take intelligence.

All it takes is an on/off switch and it has the capability of defeating the efforts of players using any or all of the above. How is that not the very definition of 'lame'?

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Err yeah. Because PVP is filled with skill. Copy a ship layout from the Ships and Modules forum, sell some game time cards for ISK to finance the character you buy then press F1, F2, F3, F4, F5, F6, F7, F8. The skill requirements are astounding.

Logging off is a no-brainer. As someone previously had mentioned what's better? Losing hundreds of millions of ISK worth of gear, time, and aggravation or simply exitting the game? You'd have to be a completely braindead tool to pick the former.

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Quote:

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The tactic of logging off is not 'lame' since it is very effective and not weak (Sometimes the best strategy is a withdrawl). The ones who call it 'lame' simply are annoyed because they weren't able to force someone into their style of gameplay on their own terms, rather, their intended victim denied the griefer the opportunity. Very ironic

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Originally by: d'hofren

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Edited by: d''hofren on 02/10/2006 21:03:24
Edited......

Just wondering; if Mr Hel is so happy to log to avoid the camps he dislikes. Then why is he posting this using an Alt?

Surely you would post with your main if you truely belive that logging is valid game play?

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Originally by: Swindy

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I wouldn't call Agony "pirates." As far as I know they have never asked for a ransom.

They just like blowing stuff up.

Can't blame them for that, it's how they get their fun (and they're pretty good at it too).

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Quote:

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As long as they want to live in 0.0 they have to handle with bubble camps.

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Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

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Logging off is the "I'd rather EVE didn't have PvP and and I got to keep all my stuff no matter where I went and no matter what anybody else might try to do about it" button right now.

Is that the game you signed up for? I don't know about you, but it sounds like a very tedious game to me.

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Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2

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Edited by: Nanobotter Mk2 on 02/10/2006 21:42:24
"Agony are not pirates. They only battle is 0.0. They have honor. They dont go after defensless miners mining omber in a .3.

If you go in a 0.0 you should be prepared to fight. Its like the wild wild west out there. Rule of the gun. anyone using cowardly log off tactics is lame.

And for those of you that complain about corps using superior numbers in battle....THIS IS NOT DUELING WITH PISTOLS AT DAWN. THIS IS BATTLE. ItS COLD AND CRUEL."



LMAO please child save the tough talk. Agony has honor? since when is camping a gate with big numbers in cheap ships hoping to gank someone solo in an expensive ship honor? Then you talk about cowards? Anyone using cheap ships and big numbers so as to have little to no risk themselves certainly qualifies as a coward as well no? you know like the weenie who talks tough when he has his 20 friends with him, catch him alone and he is crying for mommy.... that is gate campers....

Your right this is cold and cruel and if you can;t handle somone logging off to prevent being wtfbbqed by 20 people maybe you shouldnt be playing because clearly you cannot handle much....


Lets recap the poster's point..... Waaaaah waaaaaaah waaaaaaaah I cant do almost no risk ganks Waaaaah waaaaah waaaaaah I am a lamer gutless ganker and i think it is wrong other people can do just as lame tactics as me to counter my lameness Waaaaaah waaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaah.

Hrmm yup pretty much covers his point.




"Logging off is for people who aren't very good at Eve."


So is camping gates and mobbing, so we got the battle of the people who aren;t good at Eve, I see no problems here.

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Originally by: d026

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Quote:

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Then why the heck would you warp in on the bubblecamp in the first place?

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You dont always have intelligence that can tell you to not warp in... or what gate etc.. So somethimes you just land inone :) Never happened to you?:)

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Originally by: Raquel Smith

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Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

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Originally by: Athren Soulsteal

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Edited by: Athren Soulsteal on 02/10/2006 19:06:31
Let me get this straight, all the people who have complained and called this tactic lame are upset that they were not able to gank a lone pilot and call the solo pilot lame while the complainers have webs, bubbles and 10 to 1 oddsà..

ROFLSMOMNà.

Before using the term ôlame tacticsö you should look in the mirror while your blob is sitting at the next camp.

---

I'm almost entirely a solo player and have never camped in my life. I'm not a fan of the tactic, and I think in some ways it's a bad thing for the game. But Logging is still about the lamest thing possible because it's a *complete subversion* of everything important in the game.

It doesn't take isk.
It doesn't take skill points.
It doesn't take a single module.
It doesn't take a fitting plan.
It doesn't take skill.
It doesn't take experience.
It doesn't take planning.
It doesn't take teamwork.
It doesn't take intelligence.

All it takes is an on/off switch and it has the capability of defeating the efforts of players using any or all of the above. How is that not the very definition of 'lame'?

---

Err yeah. Because PVP is filled with skill. Copy a ship layout from the Ships and Modules forum, sell some game time cards for ISK to finance the character you buy then press F1, F2, F3, F4, F5, F6, F7, F8. The skill requirements are astounding.

Logging off is a no-brainer. As someone previously had mentioned what's better? Losing hundreds of millions of ISK worth of gear, time, and aggravation or simply exitting the game? You'd have to be a completely braindead tool to pick the former.

The tactic of logging off is not 'lame' since it is very effective and not weak (Sometimes the best strategy is a withdrawl). The ones who call it 'lame' simply are annoyed because they weren't able to force someone into their style of gameplay on their own terms, rather, their intended victim denied the griefer the opportunity. Very ironic.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

you cant accuse people who log out of "metagaming" with any degree of seriousness, since gatecamps are as guilty of metagaming as anything else.

---

Originally by: d'hofren

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

you cant accuse people who log out of "metagaming" with any degree of seriousness, since gatecamps are as guilty of metagaming as anything else.

---

Being organised isn't metagaming.

---

Originally by: Raquel Smith

---

I prefer to pick my fights. I PVP'd for years with great success in Ultima Online and I'm done with it. I'd rather explore peaceful aspects of the game rather than being forced into fighting.

---

Originally by: kieron

---

The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

---

Originally by: Oveur

---

last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned.

---

Originally by: Izrahar

---

What's wrong with putting your bubble in the middle of a warp route, again? Y'know, rather than being lazy and putting one up in the middle of a gate? Just a random question.

---

Originally by: Eve Hel

---

Edited by: Eve Hel on 02/10/2006 23:41:41
but seriuosly it doesn't take much orginasin to get a gate camp up.
offcause it takes more than hitting the power button, but seriously their's no skill talent or intelligence needed for setting one up.

i do agree that log off tactics is not good,, but don't claim that gate camping is !

---

Originally by: Eve Hel

---

Originally by: Izrahar

---

What's wrong with putting your bubble in the middle of a warp route, again? Y'know, rather than being lazy and putting one up in the middle of a gate? Just a random question.

---

none i guess,,, however it's not instant noo chance of ecsape tactic theirfor pirates/PVper don't do it that way

---

Originally by: Sosus Red

---

Originally by: Eve Hel

---

Edited by: Eve Hel on 02/10/2006 23:41:41
but seriuosly it doesn't take much orginasin to get a gate camp up.
offcause it takes more than hitting the power button, but seriously their's no skill talent or intelligence needed for setting one up.

i do agree that log off tactics is not good,, but don't claim that gate camping is !

---

I think what you are referring too is your typical low sec pirate scumbag gate camp. Yeah they take no talent or skill. Other organized combat operations do require skill and tactical knowledge. It does take skill and knowledge for a couple of assault frigs and some T1 frigs to bring down a couple battleships and various support ships during the course of one engagement.

YOu cant just Lump everything together and say all gate camps require no skill. Furthermore, as of right now, gate camps, love em or hate em, are still a valid part of the game. Logging off to avoid death is exploiting a game mechanic to cheat loss.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

you cant accuse people who log out of "metagaming" with any degree of seriousness, since gatecamps are as guilty of metagaming as anything else.

---

Originally by: kieron

---

The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

---

Originally by: Oveur

---

last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned.

---

Originally by: Eve Hel

---

that is likewise a (kinda)exploit of game mechanics to make a system block even while they do not poses the skills for it.

---

Originally by: Orree

---

I disagree. The means of your excape is not game mechanics, it's an exploit thereof.

---

Originally by: Raquel Smith

---

Originally by: Orree

---

I disagree. The means of your excape is not game mechanics, it's an exploit thereof.

---

Too bad for you and your ilk CCP sees it our way.

---

Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

---

Originally by: Raquel Smith

---

I prefer to pick my fights. I PVP'd for years with great success in Ultima Online and I'm done with it. I'd rather explore peaceful aspects of the game rather than being forced into fighting.

---

You don't have the option to avoid conflict in EVE. you also forgo hand-holding when you enter 0.0 space.

---

Originally by: d'hofren

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

you cant accuse people who log out of "metagaming" with any degree of seriousness, since gatecamps are as guilty of metagaming as anything else.

---

Being organised isn't metagaming.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

never said anything about being organized, which isn't even a requirement for a gatecamp.

you're abusing the characteristics of the game that only allow a single entry point into a system from another system, which is an element of the game, not something based in "reality."

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 03/10/2006 01:25:32

Originally by: zeKzn

---

never said anything about being organized, which isn't even a requirement for a gatecamp.

you're abusing the characteristics of the game that only allow a single entry point into a system from another system, which is an element of the game, not something based in "reality."

---

Youre abusing the characteristic of the game that you can travel at speeds faster then light, which is not something based in "reality".

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

if you choose to take the definition of metagaming that far, then yes. All you've accomplished now is to make the accusation of metagaming meaningless.

but actually you're just being idiotic. there's no reason to believe that chokepoints wouldn't be bypassed by people building more stargates or even by allowing player built stargates, its just not allowed by the game mechanics.

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

Your definition of metagaming is meaningless. And I'm not the one being idiotic here.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

Your definition of metagaming is meaningless. And I'm not the one being idiotic here.

---

A well formulated and eloquent argument.

Wait, no.

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

The forums dont fit within the "reality" of the game, so your posts must not exist.

I love your definition of reality, its like a free card to say the stupidest possible things. Is that eloquent enough for you?

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

The forums dont fit within the "reality" of the game, so your posts must not exist.

I love your definition of reality, its like a free card to say the stupidest possible things. Is that eloquent enough for you?

---

You've completely misunderstood my definition of reality. There was a reason I had it in quotes.

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

Quiet. You dont exist.

---

Originally by: Trem Sinval

---

*Flings hat into ring*

How about a rebalancing of bubbles....[thoughtful ideas]

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Edited by: zeKzn on 03/10/2006 01:28:38
Edited by: zeKzn on 03/10/2006 01:27:49

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 03/10/2006 01:25:32

Originally by: zeKzn

---

never said anything about being organized, which isn't even a requirement for a gatecamp.

you're abusing the characteristics of the game that only allow a single entry point into a system from another system, which is an element of the game, not something based in "reality."

---

Youre abusing the characteristic of the game that you can travel at speeds faster then light, which is not something based in "reality".

---

if you choose to take the definition of metagaming that far, then yes. All you've accomplished now is to make the accusation of metagaming meaningless.

edit: but actually you're just being idiotic. there's no reason to believe that chokepoints wouldn't be bypassed by people building more stargates or even by allowing player built stargates, its just not allowed by the game mechanics.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

Quiet. You dont exist.

---

The eternal response of the defeated.

---

Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde

---

But that argument can be pulled and twisted in so many different ways so as to make it rather meaningless. In reality the 0.0 alliances wouldn't need to camp gates, they would just put up automated FoF defence turrets at gates instead. Also, I imagine it would be a lot easier to destroy a gate than it would be to build/transport a pair of them and project a wormhole between them. At the very least we can create an Iris as shown in 'Stargate', destroying any non-friendly ships before they even appear on the other side. Plus we wouldn't have to worry about alts at all, thus removing the need for NBSI...

I'm sure you can think of more examples.

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

Oh yeah? Well your posts dont fit in with the "plasmapheresis" of this thread. Theyre not in tune with "reality". Changing the meaning of words to whatever you want by putting them in quotes is fun.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Exactly. But thats "gaming the game" as it were, is it not? Metagaming is going to be part of any "game" that we play, regardless of efforts undertaken to remove it. If anything it should be viewed as a compliment, because it indicates an understanding of how to extract the maximum advantage from whatever you're given, although logout tactics are admittedly extremely annoying for those who lose targets to them.

I'm indifferent on the discussion, because some gatecamps/bubbles deserve to have people log on them and some dont.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

Oh yeah? Well your posts dont fit in with the "plasmapheresis" of this thread. Theyre not in tune with "reality". Changing the meaning of words to whatever you want by putting them in quotes is fun.

---

If we had to create neologisms every time we wanted to use a word with a slightly different meaning than the popularly accepted one we'd have a language with 20x the words we have today. Maybe you should just retake reading comprehension.

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

The PvP flag was clearly designed to fix logoffs to save ships. The fact its broken after a jumpin just means that single case where its broken needs to be fixed. CCP has already decided that logoff mechanics have no place in PvP, and only their glacial response time has allowed jumping to clear the logoff flag.

Its a bug. It should be fixed. Abusing bugs is exploiting. People should be banned. The last part is pure fantasy of course, but the bug needs fixing.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Edited by: zeKzn on 03/10/2006 01:51:05

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

The PvP flag was clearly designed to fix logoffs to save ships. The fact its broken after a jumpin just means that single case where its broken needs to be fixed. CCP has already decided that logoff mechanics have no place in PvP, and only their glacial response time has allowed jumping to clear the logoff flag.

Its a bug. It should be fixed. Abusing bugs is exploiting. People should be banned. The last part is pure fantasy of course, but the bug needs fixing.

---

You're entitled to your opinion on it, of course. I dont agree with attempts to remove metagaming but I'm not in control of the game, so thats just my opinion. I was simply attempting to point out how meaningless it is to assert that something is "metagaming" considering the definition.

(how on earth did I forget the word out)

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

Its not an opinion. The act of implementing a PvP flag means that CCP clearly wanted to phase logoff tactics out of PvP. This is a clear-cut and blatent case of a bug which is being actively abused.

As with most bugs, the rule is to abuse it for fun and profit until it gets fixed, but that just means that the fix is urgently needed.

Stop trying to "obfuscate" the thread.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

Its not an opinion. The act of implementing a PvP flag means that CCP clearly wanted to phase logoff tactics out of PvP. This is a clear-cut and blatent case of a bug which is being actively abused.

As with most bugs, the rule is to abuse it for fun and profit until it gets fixed, but that just means that the fix is urgently needed.

Stop trying to "obfuscate" the thread.

---

Sigh, you're nothing but a troll. But really, some english knowledge would do you some good.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Exactly. But thats "gaming the game" as it were, is it not? Metagaming is going to be part of any "game" that we play, regardless of efforts undertaken to remove it. If anything it should be viewed as a compliment, because it indicates an understanding of how to extract the maximum advantage from whatever you're given, although logout tactics are admittedly extremely annoying for those who lose targets to them.

I'm indifferent on the discussion, because some gatecamps/bubbles deserve to have people log on them and some dont.

---

Originally by: Venkul Mul

---

Ganking in high security with disposable alt is an exploit. For the same logic stop that tactic.
But lame pirates will never bother to stop as it is hard to catch them.
And lame carebearer will never stop disconnecting as it is hard to chatch them.
Lame is lame.

---

Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde

---

I don't think I'm clear on the definition of metagaming. I thought it refered to using out of character tactics to gain an advantage. Such as powergaming or twinking (popularised in Everquest I believe). I hesitate to mention teamspeak because in EVE I think it can be roleplayed, but in a game like EQ I would consider it metagaming. An example relating to EVE might be jetcan mining (debatable) or tricking someone into 'flagging' themselves in Empire so that you can kill them.

Anyway, under that definition (Metagaming = OOC methods to gain an advantage) I don't think gatecamping qualifies. In reality I imagine people would protect choke points in order to defend their space. They certainly couldn't 'log out' in reality though. So that must be considered Metagaming (again, under this definition, which I am willing to accept as wrong).

I realise you could be using a different definition. I'm not sure there is an official one, Dictionary.com didn't have an entry listed. Anyway, it's not an important point, I just like to have my ignorance fought.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Ah, under that definition then I agree. I dont think its entirely fair to label logout tactics metagaming without at least making some mention of the dubiousness of gatecamping/bubbles themselves, but arguments are rarely fair.

Refreshing to have an intelligent discussion with someone for once though, I commend you :)

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

All of the crappy arguments against fixing logoffs were said back then, before the PvP flag was introduced. They were stupid then, theyre stupid now. I'd elaborate on why, but to be perfectly honest, if you dont get it just from thinking for a few seconds, I dont think you'll be smart enough to get it at all, so its not worth my time.

---

Originally by: kieron

---

The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

---

Originally by: Oveur

---

last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned.

---

Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

---

Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 03/10/2006 03:29:29

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

All of the crappy arguments against fixing logoffs were said back then, before the PvP flag was introduced. They were stupid then, theyre stupid now. I'd elaborate on why, but to be perfectly honest, if you dont get it just from thinking for a few seconds, I dont think you'll be smart enough to get it at all, so its not worth my time.

---

Sounds like a "I have no arugements so I'll just call you all stupid" arguement to me. Not giving any arguement just opens the floodgates CB.

They need to fix the anti-scram ability of logging out. Or at the least, make it so you're only immune to NPC-based scrambling if possible.

---

Originally by: MIAgrain

---

Remove the chokepoints and the problem solves itself.

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane[quote=MIAgrain

---

Remove the chokepoints and the problem solves itself.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Ah, under that definition then I agree. I dont think its entirely fair to label logout tactics metagaming without at least making some mention of the dubiousness of gatecamping/bubbles themselves, but arguments are rarely fair.

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

There are no chokepoints to lowsec. I see people whining about low-sec campers all the time. Solve that riddle, sherlock.

---

Originally by: kieron

---

The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

---

Originally by: Oveur

---

last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned.

---

Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg

---

Is this a contest to say the most ridicoulus thing you possibly could?

They're bubbles that disrupt warps, like they're intended to. They do nothing else, they don't even interupt active warps or anything of the likes - if that's a dubious tactic, well what the christ?

It's not like they're dropping Angel 8/10s or something.

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

Fortunately for me, CCP was kind enough to release the PvP flag which clearly denotes 'right' and 'wrong' in the logging debate - if you think logging is a viable and appropriate way to handle combat, you are wrong. There is no gray area, no debate. Feel free to pick wrong, but that doesnt make it any less wrong.

---

Originally by: Mr Cleann

---

I hate warp bubbles lol. personally i think the sentry guns should pop the generators when ever one is used near a jumpgate. IMHO they create a border line "unfair-advantage" lol mass murder. Fortunatly i dont use a ship that my ego cant afford to lose lol. Just wondering, Since the large warp bubbles have a 45km oacmnidirectional area of effect, has anyone ever tried to get one to surround a npc station in low sec. since the sentry guns dont fire at the gates it should stand to reason that you can do this to a station and get alot more unsuspecting victims.....

---

Originally by: Eve Hel

---

ya i can see were this is going you guys won't be happe/satisfied until you can sit 24/7 at a camp with you'r 20 other retards friend, and just target incoming targets hit the F1234 keys and feel all mighty, cause that most mean that you are a very skilled pirate, oh yes very skilled, no wounder that so many 14year old kids are doing it, it requires absolutely zero brain cells,,, and now ohnoes the targets loggs offs,,,, how rude, oh so sad for you guys.

if you want the prey too play fair/nice, you try and start doing it yourselves

---

Originally by: Izrahar

---

What's wrong with putting your bubble in the middle of a warp route, again? Y'know, rather than being lazy and putting one up in the middle of a gate? Just a random question.

---

Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler

---

Not used the log off to dodge a bubble camp myself but I see why people do it.

Gatecamping I can live with - pirates/military concentrate where tagets are. A standard camp I have a sporting chance to avoid, I don't like them but I can live with them.

Bubblecamps are another matter. Sure I can scan to avoid one if I am in the system but entering a system and dropping into a bubble is pretty much fatal and if it is a new camp you might have no warning at all, especially playing solo as I do much of the time.

I have to agree with an earlier poster - camps are sort of lame, bubblecamps really lame. Don't be surprised when your victims respond in kind.

This is especially true of the clowns putting up bubblecamps at the entrances to 0.0. Many of the people you catch are on one of their first visits to 0.0 and have few if any contacts. If you first experience of bandit country is a bubble odds are you wont go back. Bubbles are about my least favourite feature of the game, and I wouldn't miss them one bit if they were removed.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Edited by: zeKzn on 03/10/2006 06:00:49
in all likelihood you probably make them sick too if you rampantly gatecamp

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

---

Fortunately for me, CCP was kind enough to release the PvP flag which clearly denotes 'right' and 'wrong' in the logging debate - if you think logging is a viable and appropriate way to handle combat, you are wrong. There is no gray area, no debate. Feel free to pick wrong, but that doesnt make it any less wrong.

---

Frankly, from the links you posted, you have no foundation for any claim that CCP didn't intend for the pvp timer not to work when coming out of gates, unless you're a dev.

edit: in before I get attacked for supporting logout tactics when I said nothing of the sort, and the entire point gets ignored.

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Originally by: Kaffeine

---

You know what's funny... these people hitting ctrl-q and escaping 10point scrams in bubbles, while I lose my BS to another BS because my connection drops mid-warp.

So players who have crap internet lose their connection, sit there and die in space while the exploiters can just hit ctrl-q and escape? Something's wrong here.

If anything, hitting ctrl-q should make you scramble-able. And losing your connection should make you player scramble-able (not from NPCs though). After all someone could just pull the ethernet cable.

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Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne

---

Just to be precise, after DC-ing the ship dosn't disapepar, only do a emergency jump. So you can find it with some probe. Ever though about that?
Or learning a non fighting skill is to much of a bore?

---

Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne

---

Just to be precise, after DC-ing the ship dosn't disapepar, only do a emergency jump. So you can find it with some probe. Ever though about that?

Or learning a non fighting skill is to much of a bore?

---

Originally by: Rells

---

well the fact is the ship vanishes in less than a minute because the ship was not agressed at the time he disconnected.

Or is learning what the mechanics of the game are too much for you?

---

Originally by: Tiny Tove

---

If somebody doesn't want to play Eve with you and your legion of camping tards, that's THEIR business, not YOURS.

---

Originally by: Kuolematon

---

Originally by: Tiny Tove

---

If somebody doesn't want to play Eve with you and your legion of camping tards, that's THEIR business, not YOURS.

---

QFT!! I pay this game like you, I play this game like I want. Until pirates starts paying my accounts, I wont give them free entertaiment.

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Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

---

The problem with changing bubbles without changing the consequences of logging off is that lamers will still log any time they don't think the chances of surviving the camp are good enough.

---

Quote:

---

I do know logging makes an endrun around much of what makes this game meaningfull.

---

Originally by: Sosus Red

---

Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2

---

Edited by: Nanobotter Mk2 on 02/10/2006 21:42:24
"Agony are not pirates. They only battle is 0.0. They have honor. They dont go after defensless miners mining omber in a .3.

If you go in a 0.0 you should be prepared to fight. Its like the wild wild west out there. Rule of the gun. anyone using cowardly log off tactics is lame.

And for those of you that complain about corps using superior numbers in battle....THIS IS NOT DUELING WITH PISTOLS AT DAWN. THIS IS BATTLE. ItS COLD AND CRUEL."



LMAO please child save the tough talk. Agony has honor? since when is camping a gate with big numbers in cheap ships hoping to gank someone solo in an expensive ship honor? Then you talk about cowards? Anyone using cheap ships and big numbers so as to have little to no risk themselves certainly qualifies as a coward as well no? you know like the weenie who talks tough when he has his 20 friends with him, catch him alone and he is crying for mommy.... that is gate campers....

Your right this is cold and cruel and if you can;t handle somone logging off to prevent being wtfbbqed by 20 people maybe you shouldnt be playing because clearly you cannot handle much....


Lets recap the poster's point..... Waaaaah waaaaaaah waaaaaaaah I cant do almost no risk ganks Waaaaah waaaaah waaaaaah I am a lamer gutless ganker and i think it is wrong other people can do just as lame tactics as me to counter my lameness Waaaaaah waaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaah.

Hrmm yup pretty much covers his point.




"Logging off is for people who aren't very good at Eve."


So is camping gates and mobbing, so we got the battle of the people who aren;t good at Eve, I see no problems here.

---

SOunds like maybe EVE isnt the game for you

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Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2

---

If this wewre true people could be banned for it.... last i checked logging in and out alot to avoid death equal perfectly allowed by CCP. I mean lets take the silliness of your concept further..... I warp to a gate i see alot of bad guys there so i warp to the nearest belt... they follow... I pull the plug. I wasnt in a bubble, what bug did i exploit? Sorry there IS NO BUG. The game is designed to warp you away on d/c period, again IT IS INTENTIONALLY DESIGNED THAT WAY. Furthermore if you werrent a lazy skilless gamer int he first place, it has been pointed out in this thread already that as long as you agressed the target they stay put 1mill km away you simply scan them out and kill them. I know heaven forbid you have to get unaligned from 200km from a gate to do it...... but it is doable, learn to play and stop whining ever get sick of being pathetic?

---

Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2

---

Originally by: Sosus Red

---

Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2

---

Edited by: Nanobotter Mk2 on 02/10/2006 21:42:24
"Agony are not pirates. They only battle is 0.0. They have honor. They dont go after defensless miners mining omber in a .3.

If you go in a 0.0 you should be prepared to fight. Its like the wild wild west out there. Rule of the gun. anyone using cowardly log off tactics is lame.

And for those of you that complain about corps using superior numbers in battle....THIS IS NOT DUELING WITH PISTOLS AT DAWN. THIS IS BATTLE. ItS COLD AND CRUEL."



LMAO please child save the tough talk. Agony has honor? since when is camping a gate with big numbers in cheap ships hoping to gank someone solo in an expensive ship honor? Then you talk about cowards? Anyone using cheap ships and big numbers so as to have little to no risk themselves certainly qualifies as a coward as well no? you know like the weenie who talks tough when he has his 20 friends with him, catch him alone and he is crying for mommy.... that is gate campers....

Your right this is cold and cruel and if you can;t handle somone logging off to prevent being wtfbbqed by 20 people maybe you shouldnt be playing because clearly you cannot handle much....


Lets recap the poster's point..... Waaaaah waaaaaaah waaaaaaaah I cant do almost no risk ganks Waaaaah waaaaah waaaaaah I am a lamer gutless ganker and i think it is wrong other people can do just as lame tactics as me to counter my lameness Waaaaaah waaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaah.

Hrmm yup pretty much covers his point.




"Logging off is for people who aren't very good at Eve."


So is camping gates and mobbing, so we got the battle of the people who aren;t good at Eve, I see no problems here.

---

SOunds like maybe EVE isnt the game for you

---

On the contrary, you don;t see me starting threads whining about much if anything in EVE, I would say infact MAYB E EVE isnt the game for you if you cannot handle out a meager log out......although I would like to see EVE pvp turned into somewhat of a gamer of skill, and made challenging EvE does seem to be the game for me.... you might wanna pack it in though.

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

Originally by: d'hofren

---

Originally by: zeKzn

---

you cant accuse people who log out of "metagaming" with any degree of seriousness, since gatecamps are as guilty of metagaming as anything else.

---

Being organised isn't metagaming.

---

never said anything about being organized, which isn't even a requirement for a gatecamp.

you're abusing the characteristics of the game that only allow a single entry point into a system from another system, which is an element of the game, not something based in "reality."

---

Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler

---

If you want to reduce the number of people logging off in bubbles then, as other people have already suggested, give victims a suitable way out. Pretty much every system in EVE has a countermeasure, not so sure about bubbles.

---

Originally by: Rutoo

---

Theres a simplier way to solve this, . Create a Sucking Bubble on the other side to where they are going and wait for them there, then you scam and everything and even if they log off you have 15 minutes to probe them out

---

Originally by: Twilight Moon

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I'd a shuttle log out in a bubble last night.

A bloody shuttle ffs.

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Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler

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If you want to reduce the number of people logging off in bubbles then, as other people have already suggested, give victims a suitable way out. Pretty much every system in EVE has a countermeasure, not so sure about bubbles.

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Originally by: Bonny Lee

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As long as they want to live in 0.0 they have to handle with bubble camps.

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Originally by: d026

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Edited by: d026 on 02/10/2006 12:25:28
If you land in a bubble iwth your bs there is usualy no other chance than logg if you dont want to loose your ship! You simply just cant take it on with a well prepared gatecamp solo.. And i agree with the poster bevore that if you woud do smaler camps lot of people probably would fight. I have no problem taking it on with a couple of ships, but not if you are so oddly outnumbered that you get instawtfbbqd..

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Well then that is your fault for not having a scout and putting yourself in an unsafe position.

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Originally by: d026

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Quote:

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Well then that is your fault for not having a scout and putting yourself in an unsafe position.

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90% of the time you dont have a gang/scout at your disposal. Do you?

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Originally by: Amiable Quinn

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As with any MMORPG "insta-gib" tactic, players will use pretty much any means they can to avoid it, meta-gaming or no.

Let's face it there is no real counter-measure to the bubble-camp other than:

1. Not going to 0.0 space.
2. Being part of a large alliance with good intelligence travelling in a fleet.
3. Having an alt/ alt account scouting.

Option 1 is silly, especially if you want more folks in low-sec. Option 2 is not available to joe-sixpack who can't devote their existence to a video game. Option 3 is arguably as bad meta-gaming as the log-out option.

So... Instead of being annoyed at the loggers, people should focus on fixing the problems that create log-out behavior:

1. 0.0 bottlenecks
2. Gate-camping ease/uncounterability.

As mentioned above bubbles have many uses besides gatecamping. I think the most logical solution then would be to say that bubbles cannot be initiated within a 1000 km of a warp-gate due to warp interference.

Alliances should not be able to defend 50+ systems with a single gate-camp. Alliance territories need to be smaller and riskier, or else people will feel justified using whatever lame tactic they can to counter broken game mechanics.

In conclusion: Stop whining. Suggest rational and fair fixes. (And being able to insta-kill anyone walking into your gate-camp is NOT a rational and fair fix.)

As for the "this is not a CCP approved tactic" argument. As with warp bubbles, until CCP changes log-out procedures or starts banning loggers it is a valid tactic. (Cheezy, but valid like warping to a safespot and logging.) CCP decides what goes on in thier universe, and if they haven't made a statement or a change, it is implicitely not an abuse of game mechanics.

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Originally by: d026

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Edited by: d026 on 03/10/2006 12:47:04
Just give us a real chance to escape a bubblBLOBcamp (stackingpenalty, targetingspeedreduction whatever is needed to not egtting instapopped) or let us scan whats behind the gate, even if its somehow complicated like launching a special probe trough the gate. And no need to log out anymore.. So you have te option to warp in and tyr to fight/run or avoid it. But if you like it or not, MOST people just think a 1 vs 20 fight is completely unfair and thus try to avoid it :)

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Originally by: Helplessandlost

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So I can deploy a bubble 100KM from a stargate? So I can pull you out way before you reach the gate and have no way of getting back to the gate? I like the way you think!

Oh and being part of an alliance is not as time consuming as you seem to think, and there are many Joe Six Packs in every allaince...

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