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Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
   |
Posted - 2006.10.05 08:47:00 -
[1]
Last I heard Tux was playing with an MWD mass reduction bonus, but I haven't heard anything since and I'm not sure if I missed it, (I'm guessing not, but one can hope).
On a related note: Is there any likelihood of this mythical new bonus being extended to the Thorax, which has the same MWD non-bonus?
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2006.10.05 09:25:00 -
[2]
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
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Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.05 09:26:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ithildin on 05/10/2006 09:25:53
 Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
WHAT!?
NO!
It's supposed to be a blaster boat, ffs!
-
Three years old |
FFGR
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.05 09:27:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
I liked the mass reduction more.
It was taken out cause you didn't like it or cause it didn't go as planned ?
_____________________________
siggys v. 0.5 |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.05 09:31:00 -
[5]
More likely to conform to some silly plan that all ships of each tier should be equal, and since all the othes got a tanking bonus, so should the Hyperion.
We need longer combat through hit points, not tanking. Tanking is lame, boring, and contributes nothing new.
I was so looking forward to a proper blaster ship, and you go putting a bleedin' tanking bonus on a ship type that's supposed to be fast, heavy hitting, and FRAGILE. To make matters worse, it's one of those uninspiring +7.5% repair amount bonuses - which to be quite honest aren't very good.
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Three years old |
Laythun
Undercover Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.05 09:35:00 -
[6]
Hehehehe.
Oh well. i guess i wot train gallente past frig V then
Proud Member of the Anti Whine 14 |
Waut
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.10.05 09:39:00 -
[7]
A tanking bonus? I remember it was going to get an agility bonus/lower mass.
I might as well cancel my training for gallente BS then 
In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
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Spenz
Gallente
Empire POS Experiment
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Posted - 2006.10.05 09:50:00 -
[8]
my god someone call the waaaaahhmbulance. Hurrah for armor rep bonus. If you want a blasterboat get a vindicator.
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Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.05 09:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
I hate to say it, but that really is *very* disappointing. I'd almost rather have the old MWD bonus than that, at least that had something to do with the role of the ship.
I'd like to reverse my second question from my OP: Please tell me this *isn't* being passed on to the Thorax too?
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
jernej
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2006.10.05 09:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ithildin
Edited by: Ithildin on 05/10/2006 09:25:53
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
WHAT!?
NO!
It's supposed to be a blaster boat, ffs!
I'm sure it will have a missile slot or two so you can compensate with damage.  |
Sandra Tseng
THE MISPHIT'S
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Posted - 2006.10.05 09:56:00 -
[11]
you ppl are never seace to surprise me.
Did not your parents give you enough love?
Why all this freakin whining all over the forums day in and day out.
CCP have built this game from nothing over the past decade or so.
They have created what you are playing today. You are paying for it and you are playing it - so that should mean you like what they have done so far. now put som farking TRUST in them or just quit and go play WoW or create your own gawd damn game!
___
Killed my sig AGAIN! :p
http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.10.05 09:57:00 -
[12]
The guy says 'for now' and you all still go off on one :P
Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
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Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.05 09:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Spenz
my god someone call the waaaaahhmbulance. Hurrah for armor rep bonus. If you want a blasterboat get a vindicator.
Given that We have been repeatedly told that the Hyperion will be a dedicated blaster boat, I don't think it's actually too much to ask for it's bonuses to reflect that.
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Donmadefy
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Posted - 2006.10.05 09:58:00 -
[14]
Tux does say "for now" ... he doesn't say "and it's final"
Is it worth us coming up with other options to suggest trying? How about enhancing the effect of nanofibres or inertial stabilisers?
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FFGR
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
The guy says 'for now' and you all still go off on one :P
You know that it is common practice to whine about something before it even gets released 
_____________________________
siggys v. 0.5 |
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:01:00 -
[16]
So its now like a big-ass Brutix.
I can't honestly say I'm massively dissapointed....I hate MWD bonuses.
----------------
...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
Anyone Recruiting? 8m SP PvP Character looking for a new home, for a life as a pirate. Contact Via EVE-Mail. |
Sinjin Smythe
Finite Horizon
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 10:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
Im both amused and disgusted everytime a dev says something and then, 20 ppl goes emo and starts crying and moaning about it. Is it hard to read? He said FOR NOW, not that it is permanent. FOR NOW. See? Do you understand the meaning of that? As in not permanent? They have several times said they dont know what to give the Hyperion for its second bonus, they are still experimenting.
Stop acting like 10-year old children.
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Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:04:00 -
[18]
Tuxford, you have been mislead by people with an unhealthy sense of symmetry and quite possibly whom are out of touch with the game. The community is crying out for diversity, and you give them conformity.
The only reason I can think of that triggered this change was that you want to make more fleet-oriented battleships, well in the case of the Minmatar and Gallente you fail miserably.
Giving a fleet ship an armour/shield boost bonus is like handing a candle to light the way in a gale storm. Ships die a lot faster than a repairer, or even shield booster, cycles. The hit points gained from the single cycle that might come through will make no difference what so ever to the outcome except possibly require that last volley to use all guns instead of all but one.
Additionally, the whole concept of a Gallentean ship in a long ranged engagement is absurd and wholy wrong.
You have a lot of game changing to do before you can get close combat ships into a fleet engagement.
If it is intended as a blasterboat, however, it is ultimate proof that the developer team as a unit is out of touch with the game. A repair bonus do not work because here is what a blaster boat is usually lacking:
* Speed
* Capacitor
* Damage
At no point does a blaster boat need repair amount. You need to survive until you are close enough to the enemy, you need to close in fast, and you need to kill him fast.
Without speed, you will die before you get there. Without capacitor your MWD and few repairers won't be able to cycle, nor will your guns. Without damage the target's friends will kill you while he holds you down. To a lesser extent a blaster ship needs hit poits, but in this case it is *pure* hit points.
With these changes, quite frankly, I am expecting the Hyperion to have:
* More than 600 CPU
* More than 20,000 Powergrid
* Enough capacitor and recharge to put an Apocalypse to shame
Otherwise it won't be able to make good use of it's given bonuses.
P.S. Before people were concerned that the Hyperion would threaten the Megathron too much, as it turns out it would completely negate the Apocalypse instead.
Gah. I hate PvE based changes.
-
Three years old |
xlop
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
interesting
seems like a useless bonous for a blaster boat since they are not intended to tank very well, its more get in do the damage and rep up afterwards if you survived.
How about give the galante tier 3 a automatic structure recharge like shiedls. something like a constant 5 HP per sec structure rep! tank wise that only adds 61DPS tank to the structue if you use best named DCU. basicy that is not a good tank but it is a good buffer and imo a decent way galante can fight
in comparision to this 61DPS free tank, a dual L t2 rep armor tank does 400-500DPS tanked dependant on resistance
--
Imperial College London FTW
-- |
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 10:06:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sinjin Smythe
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
Im both amused and disgusted everytime a dev says something and then, 20 ppl goes emo and starts crying and moaning about it. Is it hard to read? He said FOR NOW, not that it is permanent. FOR NOW. See? Do you understand the meaning of that? As in not permanent? They have several times said they dont know what to give the Hyperion for its second bonus, they are still experimenting.
Stop acting like 10-year old children.
If we don't register our disappointment there's always the chance that the Devs will mistakenly believe we *like* the bonus and will end up leaving it there. 
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:06:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sinjin Smythe
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
Im both amused and disgusted everytime a dev says something and then, 20 ppl goes emo and starts crying and moaning about it. Is it hard to read? He said FOR NOW, not that it is permanent. FOR NOW. See? Do you understand the meaning of that? As in not permanent? They have several times said they dont know what to give the Hyperion for its second bonus, they are still experimenting.
Stop acting like 10-year old children.
I must assume that you are new to the game.
"For now" means that they consider that they'll change it in a later patch.
"Later patch" means when they decide that a line of ships need moderation, usually slightly more than 2 years after the initial "for now". Heck, they said that the Ares'd have that missile/turret split "for now" back in the days, they even changed it slightly even more emphasising what was wrong with it, and it's still waiting to get fixed.
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Three years old |
Kendar
Gallente
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:09:00 -
[22]
Whats worst the whiners or the ones that whine about the whiners? 
Tux as long as you make us a blasterboat that work we will keep loving yah, it might be tough love with whips and chains but thats love too!
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Sinjin Smythe
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Sinjin Smythe
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
Im both amused and disgusted everytime a dev says something and then, 20 ppl goes emo and starts crying and moaning about it. Is it hard to read? He said FOR NOW, not that it is permanent. FOR NOW. See? Do you understand the meaning of that? As in not permanent? They have several times said they dont know what to give the Hyperion for its second bonus, they are still experimenting.
Stop acting like 10-year old children.
I must assume that you are new to the game.
"For now" means that they consider that they'll change it in a later patch.
"Later patch" means when they decide that a line of ships need moderation, usually slightly more than 2 years after the initial "for now". Heck, they said that the Ares'd have that missile/turret split "for now" back in the days, they even changed it slightly even more emphasising what was wrong with it, and it's still waiting to get fixed.
I have played eve since beta 3, how about you?
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Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:12:00 -
[24]
Then you should know better.
-
Three years old |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
Ummm, what? I seriously hope that "for now" means "as a placeholder".
If it's supposed to be a blasterboat, it needs a bonus that helps that role. A tanking bonus is pretty much the furthest thing from that.
The biggest problem blaster boats have is getting to range before getting shredded. So add something that helps in that department.
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Stephar
The High Priest
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:14:00 -
[26]
Sounds like you folks got yourselves an Abaddon. It can gank or tank, just not at the same time.
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Deepeh
Northern Intelligence
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:19:00 -
[27]
Who the **** cares?
Why make the Hyperion a blaster boat? The Megathron does the job fine.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly. |
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:24:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Deepeh
Who the **** cares?
Why make the Hyperion a blaster boat? The Megathron does the job fine.
The Megathron does the job barely adequately.
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
xlop
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:30:00 -
[29]
Edited by: xlop on 05/10/2006 10:31:35
 5HP to structure per lvl [bit like a shield recharge], then a tier 3 galante bs can fit a setup and expect/not worry about getting into structure
MASSIVE bonous to AB, +50% to AB speed [means we get a AB that is a MWD without the sig hit, slightly easier to fit, less cap!]
+5% to resistance to shields/armor and structure, i would accept this, it gives a bigger buffer [which helps blaster boats] and keeps your tanking , although as a pure tank 7.5% to armor rep is > 5% to resistance.
5% to rof to blasters  would make it a very nice DPS machine, but would make the cap problem much worse to slightly compensate, would use 52.4% more cap/s than a blasterthron. [might be overpowered  ]
some ideas
Originally by: Stephar
Sounds like you folks got yourselves an Abaddon. It can gank or tank, just not at the same time.
erm no, 6 low slots will never make it a tank, and blasters cant hit at 45km for great damage while pulse lasers can. thus our great 6 low slots with a nice mwd cap penalty AND having to use the 700+cap per mwd cycle is definitly not a tanking machine, no matter how hard you try
--
Imperial College London FTW
-- |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 10:39:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Ithildin on 05/10/2006 10:42:22
I believe the bonuses are:
+7.5% armour repair amount per cycle per level
+5% large hybrid turret damage per level
Edit: considering that the bonus that was questionable on it was the MWD/AB bonus and not the damage bonus.
Also, Xlop, the bonus Tux had contemplated last we heard was a mass reduction when AB or MWD was fitted. I think it was something along the lines of -5% mass, which would mean an effectiveness increase on MWD and ABs by about 33% as well as only slightly worse agility with MWD/AB going compared to without. Currently, agility takes a 50% hit when activating speed modules, with the mass bonus agility would only take a 12.5% hit.
-
Three years old |
McTaggart
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:47:00 -
[31]
I'd at least try a 5% reduction to cap booster duration bonus. Or maybe 5% reduction in cap booster charge volume. Those 5%'s are just placeholders, not sure what values would be fair.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:47:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Deepeh
Who the **** cares?
Why make the Hyperion a blaster boat? The Megathron does the job fine.
The Megathron does the job barely adequately.
Funny how gallente pilots keep saying this, and yet the megathron can sometimes even take on two battleships and kill them both before being in structure...
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 10:52:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ithildin
I believe the bonuses are:
+7.5% armour repair amount per cycle per level
+5% large hybrid turret damage per level
That's what I assumed from Tux's post.
What I was hoping for was something along the lines of:
'x% bonus to effectiveness of mass and inertia reduction of Nanofibre Internal Structure and Inertial Stabilisers.'
Where 'x' is a number balanced to ensure the bonus isn't utterly uber.
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Deepeh
Northern Intelligence
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:54:00 -
[34]
Hehe, well okay..
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly. |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 10:56:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Deepeh
Who the **** cares?
Why make the Hyperion a blaster boat? The Megathron does the job fine.
The Megathron does the job barely adequately.
Funny how gallente pilots keep saying this, and yet the megathron can sometimes even take on two battleships and kill them both before being in structure...
It does the job adequatly, yes. Personally, I was looking forward to something that's fun to fly more than anything. A tanking Gallente ship is neither fun nor useful, though.
There's been too much cramming new ships into other ships' roles lately, and too much cramming down new ships into roles that aren't suited for the race.
-
Three years old |
XGS Crimson
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Posted - 2006.10.05 10:58:00 -
[36]
Its the brutix all over again... i hate you now
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xlop
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.05 11:03:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Deepeh
Who the **** cares?
Why make the Hyperion a blaster boat? The Megathron does the job fine.
The Megathron does the job barely adequately.
Funny how gallente pilots keep saying this, and yet the megathron can sometimes even take on two battleships and kill them both before being in structure...
a lot of people say a lot of things, mostly bullcrap
the megathron is a good ship, but there is very little situations its the best at, and dont get me wrong its a good ship!
id take the megathron over the other close range BS for an unknown general situation,
but the tempest would do much much better VS HACS and Frigs/cepters/af ect [2heavy nosf and dual 90% web just rapes smaller ships]
id take the geddon for larger gangs because of range
id take the raven over the megathron for 99% of situations if i had 2+ more in gang with me that could tackle and web!
and most peoples experiences of a blasterthron is BS 1v1 where it does good, should beat all and only have trouble with ravens.
--
Imperial College London FTW
-- |
Nafri
Caldari
Cataclysm Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:03:00 -
[38]
hey come on, it could have been a shield boosting bonus, which is probably the worst bonus for PvP ever -.-
I havent used a shield booster since they boosted shield extenders, even for npcing shield boosting is pointless, 3x large shield extenders and 2x hardeners do the job much better
From Dusk till Dawn
|
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:14:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Nafri
hey come on, it could have been a shield boosting bonus, which is probably the worst bonus for PvP ever -.-
I havent used a shield booster since they boosted shield extenders, even for npcing shield boosting is pointless, 3x large shield extenders and 2x hardeners do the job much better
It could at that. Thanks for putting it in perspective for me.
With this bonus though, the Rokh will be a better blaster boat. Imagine that optimal bonus using Null ammo on Neutrons.
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:17:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Deepeh
Who the **** cares?
Why make the Hyperion a blaster boat? The Megathron does the job fine.
The Megathron does the job barely adequately.
Funny how gallente pilots keep saying this, and yet the megathron can sometimes even take on two battleships and kill them both before being in structure...
I tried it with my skills and its not quite as simple as , "Warp in, MWD right up their arse, and press the I-Win Button".
Luckily a passing carrier pilot decided to save me.
----------------
...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
Anyone Recruiting? 8m SP PvP Character looking for a new home, for a life as a pirate. Contact Via EVE-Mail. |
Nafri
Caldari
Cataclysm Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:19:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Nafri
hey come on, it could have been a shield boosting bonus, which is probably the worst bonus for PvP ever -.-
I havent used a shield booster since they boosted shield extenders, even for npcing shield boosting is pointless, 3x large shield extenders and 2x hardeners do the job much better
It could at that. Thanks for putting it in perspective for me.
With this bonus though, the Rokh will be a better blaster boat. Imagine that optimal bonus using Null ammo on Neutrons.
still the gallente ship will be the second fastest BS, only inferior to the phoon
From Dusk till Dawn
|
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Nafri
hey come on, it could have been a shield boosting bonus, which is probably the worst bonus for PvP ever -.-
I havent used a shield booster since they boosted shield extenders, even for npcing shield boosting is pointless, 3x large shield extenders and 2x hardeners do the job much better
It could at that. Thanks for putting it in perspective for me.
With this bonus though, the Rokh will be a better blaster boat. Imagine that optimal bonus using Null ammo on Neutrons.
still the gallente ship will be the second fastest BS, only inferior to the phoon
True. That, at least has been got right. 
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:23:00 -
[43]
Rofl I almost suspect Tux just put this one in for laughs while the entire team is busy trying to get kali ready for us (yay!!).
It would be funky with a repair amount bonus, i can see the benefit but i can also understand the people saying that this just takes away from the role bonus.
With a ship that has (if I remember a dev blog + reactions correctly) low targetting range and poor tracking, made to blaster setups, I would like to see its boni for that role aswell.
Most people agree that a blasterboat uses a bunch of the sawed off shotgun thingies and a MWD to get in close. Tanking is usually ignored, ganking in favoured.
So if the general idea is to have fights take longer, I would sooner see a armour hp per lvl bonus, or perhaps a cap recharge per lvl. Ofcourse I would like the game to be kinda fair, if that means a rep bonus, so be it.
As for the 'for now' thing, I reckon that means it's not even the release bonus, as kali has yet to hit the test server, and there are usually some < insert size here > tweaks that need to be put in before release when tested by the various players ;)
- All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me
- Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please |
Nafri
Caldari
Cataclysm Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:23:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Nafri
hey come on, it could have been a shield boosting bonus, which is probably the worst bonus for PvP ever -.-
I havent used a shield booster since they boosted shield extenders, even for npcing shield boosting is pointless, 3x large shield extenders and 2x hardeners do the job much better
It could at that. Thanks for putting it in perspective for me.
With this bonus though, the Rokh will be a better blaster boat. Imagine that optimal bonus using Null ammo on Neutrons.
still the gallente ship will be the second fastest BS, only inferior to the phoon
True. That, at least has been got right.
And it will make the autopest as usefull as a freezer on the northpole
From Dusk till Dawn
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Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.10.05 11:25:00 -
[45]
How about a 5% cap increase bonus/lvl for it and the rax ?
That way you get a bonus that does the same thing as the one thats one the rax ( effectively negates mwd cap penalty
) and its of some benefit when you don't fit an mwd.
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xlop
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.05 11:28:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Nafri
And it will make the autopest as usefull as a freezer on the northpole
turn the freezer off, and it will act keep hot food/drink warmer for longer than if it was left outside
there is a use for ya
--
Imperial College London FTW
-- |
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:31:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Nafri
hey come on, it could have been a shield boosting bonus, which is probably the worst bonus for PvP ever -.-
I havent used a shield booster since they boosted shield extenders, even for npcing shield boosting is pointless, 3x large shield extenders and 2x hardeners do the job much better
It could at that. Thanks for putting it in perspective for me.
With this bonus though, the Rokh will be a better blaster boat. Imagine that optimal bonus using Null ammo on Neutrons.
still the gallente ship will be the second fastest BS, only inferior to the phoon
True. That, at least has been got right.
And it will make the autopest as usefull as a freezer on the northpole
Sadly, yes. My other character flies Minmatar exclusively, and I love the Autopest but it is going to have issues with lack of role due to the Hyperion. Which is why I suggested the replacement bonus I did earlier in the thread. If one were to give the Hyperion a low to average base speed, then the bonus I suggested would still allow it to be fast on AB/MWD but you'd have to sacrifice lows to do so, thus negating a tank. Whereas the Tempest would still be generally fast and able to tank better than the Hyperion.
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:33:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Nafri
And it will make the autopest as usefull as a freezer on the northpole
We all should have realized that Tempest is a fleet sniper...
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Nafri
Caldari
Cataclysm Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:34:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Nafri
And it will make the autopest as usefull as a freezer on the northpole
We all should have realized that Tempest is a fleet sniper...
and I use it only for that, but I have still hopes for it
From Dusk till Dawn
|
Unfamed II
FinFleet
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:40:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Unfamed II on 05/10/2006 11:40:40
How about just letting the whine out when theres something to be whined about? Has any of you actually flown the ship yet? Put down your calculators, wait for the ship to come, test it, test it more and whine after, NOT before.
|
Nafri
Caldari
Cataclysm Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:41:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Unfamed II
Edited by: Unfamed II on 05/10/2006 11:40:40
How about just letting the whine out when theres something to be whined about? Has any of you actually flown the ship yet? Put down your calculators, wait for the ship to come, test it, test it more and whine after, NOT before.
yeah like with the phoon, just wait 2.5 years and look how fast it will get fixed
From Dusk till Dawn
|
MECTO
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:42:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
useless 
|
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:46:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Nafri
still the gallente ship will be the second fastest BS, only inferior to the phoon
The Tempest is also the second fastest battleship, but meh.
In either case, the Maelstrom should have a +10% shield hit points bonus instead of +7.5% shield boost bonus. With shield hit points it might actually survive long enough to realign, do damage, and whatnot in fleet battles since it's supposed to be a fleet ship.
Also, it would sneak in passive tanks for Minmatar. Oh, and it'd boost effectiveness of shield extenders by up to 50% on the Maelstrom.
-
Three years old |
Ozzie Asrail
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:46:00 -
[54]
hmm rep amount aint too bad if it could fit neutrons + large repper\mwd\cap booster without needing a RCU or 3!
7.5 rof, 5% dmg 4tw
-----
|
MECTO
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:46:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Unfamed II
Edited by: Unfamed II on 05/10/2006 11:40:40
How about just letting the whine out when theres something to be whined about? Has any of you actually flown the ship yet? Put down your calculators, wait for the ship to come, test it, test it more and whine after, NOT before.
noob, if u whine after it will never be fixed 
|
Mila Prestoc
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:48:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 05/10/2006 11:50:30
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Unfamed II
Edited by: Unfamed II on 05/10/2006 11:40:40
How about just letting the whine out when theres something to be whined about? Has any of you actually flown the ship yet? Put down your calculators, wait for the ship to come, test it, test it more and whine after, NOT before.
yeah like with the phoon, just wait 2.5 years and look how fast it will get fixed
Well i'm going to start whining now then, no Gallente ship should be quicker than a Minmatar ship of the same class, whatever "role" its meant to have. The racial differences arn't different enough as it is.
It is there penalty for having huge damage and low range blasters, giving them lots of speed means the low range penalty is hugely reduced. Not to mention T2 ammo already means that "low range, high damage" balance is screwed up.
I'm ignoring the Maelstrom, its an abomination!
Edit: A minmatar ship, enemies of Amarr designing a big slow shield tanking ship... I think they were smoking something. Nothing against shield tank, just big and slow like we're trying to go toe to toe with Amarr is completly against the minmatar way!)
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
|
Nafri
Caldari
Cataclysm Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:50:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Nafri
still the gallente ship will be the second fastest BS, only inferior to the phoon
The Tempest is also the second fastest battleship, but meh.
In either case, the Maelstrom should have a +10% shield hit points bonus instead of +7.5% shield boost bonus. With shield hit points it might actually survive long enough to realign, do damage, and whatnot in fleet battles since it's supposed to be a fleet ship.
Also, it would sneak in passive tanks for Minmatar. Oh, and it'd boost effectiveness of shield extenders by up to 50% on the Maelstrom.
I still demand a real missle ship for us minmatars :D
8/5/6
hihi, finally a use for the bellicose in a minmatar fleet
From Dusk till Dawn
|
MECTO
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:52:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 05/10/2006 11:50:30
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Unfamed II
Edited by: Unfamed II on 05/10/2006 11:40:40
How about just letting the whine out when theres something to be whined about? Has any of you actually flown the ship yet? Put down your calculators, wait for the ship to come, test it, test it more and whine after, NOT before.
yeah like with the phoon, just wait 2.5 years and look how fast it will get fixed
Well i'm going to start whining now then, no Gallente ship should be quicker than a Minmatar ship of the same class, whatever "role" its meant to have. The racial differences arn't different enough as it is.
It is there penalty for having huge damage and low range blasters, giving them lots of speed means the low range penalty is hugely reduced. Not to mention T2 ammo already means that "low range, high damage" balance is screwed up.
I'm ignoring the Maelstrom, its an abomination!
Edit: A minmatar ship, enemies of Amarr designing a big slow shield tanking ship... I think they were smoking something. Nothing against shield tank, just big and slow like we're trying to go toe to toe with Amarr is completly against the minmatar way!)
and caldari should? look at the crow
|
MECTO
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:52:00 -
[59]
Edited by: MECTO on 05/10/2006 11:52:35
double post
|
Cuebick
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:55:00 -
[60]
I have come to the conclusion that the Gallente people are NEVER EVER happy with what they get.. EVER.
Except for the Domi, Ishtar and Taranis.
The Mega for me is great and tbfh imo tier3 bs wont be the kings of the hills.
|
XGS Crimson
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:55:00 -
[61]
Haha pwnage on a stick me thinks... its a blaster boat meaning more PG its a close combat meaning it will have to be pretty quick... it doesnt have a tracking bonus ( uhoh looks like my blasters missed that tree even thought they abosorbed it...) and my good god its got poor locking range... this ship is guna pwn big time
and im not being sarcastic... if they make it so poor in other parts of the ship its guna have to make up for it with the actual damage output/ speed
|
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:57:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Unfamed II
Edited by: Unfamed II on 05/10/2006 11:40:40
How about just letting the whine out when theres something to be whined about? Has any of you actually flown the ship yet? Put down your calculators, wait for the ship to come, test it, test it more and whine after, NOT before.
Thats akin to designing and building a plane, selling it and getting a full load of passengers on it, only to find it crashes as you take-off because you forgot to put a tail on it in the design and left out the testing stage.
----------------
...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
Anyone Recruiting? 8m SP PvP Character looking for a new home, for a life as a pirate. Contact Via EVE-Mail. |
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:57:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 05/10/2006 12:02:27
Double Post
----------------
...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
Anyone Recruiting? 8m SP PvP Character looking for a new home, for a life as a pirate. Contact Via EVE-Mail. |
Miklas Laces
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 11:58:00 -
[64]
7,5% reduction in blasters signature resolution per level ?
|
MECTO
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 12:01:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Cuebick
I have come to the conclusion that the Gallente people are NEVER EVER happy with what they get.. EVER.
Except for the Domi, Ishtar and Taranis.
The Mega for me is great and tbfh imo tier3 bs wont be the kings of the hills.
taranis need more pg! ishtar too, can't double rep it with 1600mm plates and many nosfs
|
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 12:42:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Cuebick
I have come to the conclusion that the Gallente people are NEVER EVER happy with what they get.. EVER.
Except for the Domi, Ishtar and Taranis.
The Mega for me is great and tbfh imo tier3 bs wont be the kings of the hills.
That one came from the blue. Aren't you confusing Gallente with Amarr, or maybe Minmatar? Or possibly Caldari.
No, wait. Everyone's got whiners. Or perhaps, the term should be "everyone else", since it's really relative.
-
Three years old |
Brother Todd
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 12:55:00 -
[67]
not to be an ass or anything. But you hated the MWD bonuses, he changed it. You hate the new bonus, fair enough. All you've said is what you don't like (everything so far). What do you want?
How is it constructive to whine about the current concept (which none of you have tested) instead of actually coming up with some new ideas for a second bonus?
|
JoCool
Caldari
Dark Cartel
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 13:09:00 -
[68]
I just hope the Tier 3 battleships will not outperform our lovely old ones.
That means I'd like the Hyperion different and not take the Blasterthron's role. If it has 6 medium slots or whatever is intended, it should maybe feature 5 low slots at a maximum. Then you might want to give it a shield resistance bonus of 5% per level, so you can really have a new style of ship. A Blasterion with the medium slots for a MWD, Web, Scrambler, Cap Booster, XL SB and an Invul Field/EM Ward as defense. This is like a 3 slot light shield tank. Now due to the lowslots you'd want to fit Power Diagnostic Units if you want Neutrons, Mag stabs if you use Electrons or Ions, ECCMs, Nanos to get RLY fast (ever flown a ship with 5 Nanos? Jesus Christ, it's a rocket with blasters), WCS, Cap Relays or whatever you wish. It's always a surprise to encounter one! Keep the locking range like it is so it does not become a Sniperboat with super tank like the Caldari Tier 3.
My concerns about too strong and "same" boring ships also relates to the Caldari Railboat.
Although I am a Caldari myself and fly nothing else, I fear the Rohk as being too strong with 8 turrets, the range bonus, the shield resistance bonus AND one more slot. It will be the best sniper, but I like it as an alternative to the Megathron, Tempest and Abbadon - not something better. You might want to cut a medium slot so it has the same medium/lowslot configuration like the Raven and change the shield resistance bonus to something else, for example the tracking bonus like the Megathron has so it can also hit at ranges of less than 30km. With 6 (7!) medium slots, the resistances and the not needed tracking enhancers, this ship really might become a too strong sniper tank WITH ecm ability.
The Abbadon is fine, it should be the only can-be-sniper with resistances because its defense is hard to keep up when you're shooting. Therefore it also is not perfect and seems balanced - probably even with the possible one more slot.
The Maelstron looks fine, now that the other ships don't seem uber anymore, it really looks nice. It can boost the most hitpoints per second of all battleships and looks like a good gunboat to me. It cannot hold its target, but then again it's not an AC boat and relies on others as tacklers - like the Rohk and Abbadon will do too.
I hope some of you would feel warm and fuzzy with my ideas about the Tier 3 battleships. Please don't make them too strong - you might want to make then as innovative and "new feel" as possible - for all your good veteran customers out there.
_______________________________________________________________________
Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel!
Oveur > ohnoes jocool |
Kunming
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 13:10:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
Suxford!
|
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 13:13:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Nafri
And it will make the autopest as usefull as a freezer on the northpole
We all should have realized that Tempest is a fleet sniper...
But with the Maelstorm even that role will be limited. Only way for the tempest to outdamage a maelstorm are by using it's utility slots which it really can't in fleet duty.
Add to this more slots and probably higher base lock range and I see little reason to use a tempest for fleets (other than to save some isk).
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 13:16:00 -
[71]
Originally by: JoCool
Although I am a Caldari myself and fly nothing else, I fear the Rohk as being too strong with 8 turrets, the range bonus, the shield resistance bonus AND one more slot.
No kidding. The Maelstrom that actually NEEDS tracking computers (since it doesnt have a range bonus and artillery tracking is awful) gets perhaps 5 medium slots (and its a shield tanker!), but the Rohk looks to get 7 medium slots...and sure, it really needs those 7 slots, because it will take alot of damage being 250 km from the target (longer range than any other ship in the game)... </irony>
Oh well. I shouldnt get into these threads... I guess I just dont understand balance.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 13:18:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Hoshi
I see little reason to use a tempest for fleets (other than to save some isk).
The tempest will align and warp faster for when you want to run, because in keeping with Minmatar design philosophy, the Maelstrom is a big, slow, heavy, tanking machine.
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 13:19:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Nafri
And it will make the autopest as usefull as a freezer on the northpole
We all should have realized that Tempest is a fleet sniper...
But with the Maelstorm even that role will be limited. Only way for the tempest to outdamage a maelstorm are by using it's utility slots which it really can't in fleet duty.
Add to this more slots and probably higher base lock range and I see little reason to use a tempest for fleets (other than to save some isk).
I think people will prefer the Tempest even with the Maelstrom in the game, because I really dont see why you would want to use it for fleet sniping.
I think it will be used for medium range gankage with Quake (since it wont have room for both shield tank and sensor boosters/tracking computers), and gate camping.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Miklas Laces
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 14:00:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Brother Todd
How is it constructive to whine about the current concept (which none of you have tested) instead of actually coming up with some new ideas for a second bonus?
There are 5-6 suggestions for a second bonus in this thread, you didn't read all the posts maybe.
The armor repair bonus just doesn't fit well with the ship philosophy. I'd personally like one of those:
- reduction in large blasters signature resolution (my favourite)
- a second damage bonus
- increase in agility and speed
- large increase in agility
- falloff bonus (overpowered maybe ?)
|
Tasty Burger
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 14:05:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Cuebick
I have come to the conclusion that the Gallente people are NEVER EVER happy with what they get.. EVER.
Except for the Domi, Ishtar and Taranis.
The Mega for me is great and tbfh imo tier3 bs wont be the kings of the hills.
They dont realize that they already have the two best battleships in game, by far. Anyone who disagrees is a ******* idiot.
The raven is 3rd best btw.
|
Demon Johnson
The Scope
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 14:11:00 -
[76]
I guess there is a simple reason why Tux cannot put in a pure blaster bonus:
Blasters and Railguns are at least in TL1 the same type of weapon and use the same skill: hybride
So he cannot (programming-wise) put a bonus on a ship which only boosts blasters. The only thing he could do perhaps is a TL2 blaster bonus, because they require an own skill.
But I too would like a mass-reduction. A "light" ship can change course faster, reach the enemy faster and circle him closer. When you fit railguns on the same ship, the bonus doesn¦t help so much, as you always outrun your enemy with top-speed which is not effected by mass.
Correct me if i am wrong
|
Tasty Burger
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 14:29:00 -
[77]
The autotempest will be completely useless after the hyperion comes in. Its already dying due to the overpowered blasterthron.
Megathron needs a dronebay nerf, tbh, hail needs to be unnerfed so tempests can actually use hail to compete with void, and there need to be 30km+ warp disruptors for tempests and whatnot.
That still doesnt help vs the hyperion though. Hyperion = FFS
|
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 14:32:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Alex Tremayne on 05/10/2006 14:35:45
Originally by: Tasty Burger
Edited by: Tasty Burger on 05/10/2006 14:06:32
Originally by: Cuebick
I have come to the conclusion that the Gallente people are NEVER EVER happy with what they get.. EVER.
Except for the Domi, Ishtar and Taranis.
The Mega for me is great and tbfh imo tier3 bs wont be the kings of the hills.
They dont realize that they already have the two best battleships in game, by far. Anyone who disagrees is a ******* idiot.
The raven is 3rd best btw.
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Hoshi
I see little reason to use a tempest for fleets (other than to save some isk).
The tempest will align and warp faster for when you want to run, because in keeping with Minmatar design philosophy, the Maelstrom is a big, slow, heavy, tanking machine.
Yeah... too bad in a fleet you're already aligned anyway. You know nothing. Stop posting.
Whereas you clearly have no concept of either 'sarcasm' or 'irony'. Keep posting. You amuse me.
edit: typo
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Ju Blimb
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 14:32:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Tasty Burger
The autotempest will be completely useless after the hyperion comes in. Its already dying due to the overpowered blasterthron.
Make a thread on the tempest, in this one we are commenting the hyperion second bonus. Thanks |
Bazman
Caldari
The Establishment
Establishment
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 14:34:00 -
[80]
Just lol.
I can live with a rep bonus, but it's just so samey, I would rather have the bonus that affects its speed or agility. I don't envy Tux tbh.
-----
Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
I am a Gallente Whiner. Minmatar Whining is currently in training. |
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 14:36:00 -
[81]
I;d rather have an agile and fast ship then some type of half-tank.
Old blog |
Stanis
Gallente
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 14:49:00 -
[82]
I do not know what are you ppl talking about but I just LOVE THE TANK BONUS!!! OVERSIZED BRUTIX 4TW!!
/me hugs Tuxford
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 14:49:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
I;d rather have an agile and fast ship then some type of half-tank.
Fly a Tempest. 
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Krulla
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Chimaera Pact
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 15:16:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
What the heeeeeell?!?!
That's utterly useless. Point me to one blasterthron pilot with sense which doesn't dump armour repairers in lieu of plates.
Great, I had high hopes for this ship.
|
Pesadel0
Vagabundos
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 15:37:00 -
[85]
Ohh my god....Tux ....dont go that way....
I mean come on the only BS that is cool is the caldari one ,now the rest are mhee(not good not bad).
I wont even ask if you changed the bonus on the tier3 minmatar one..
|
Par'Gellen
Low Grade Ore
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 15:39:00 -
[86]
I like the idea of an armor repair bonus! \o/
---
Starmaps - An Insta Solution |
Alpha Prime
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 15:44:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Spenz
my god someone call the waaaaahhmbulance. Hurrah for armor rep bonus. If you want a blasterboat get a vindicator.
stfu please  .
Give a man a fish, and he has food for a day.
Teach a man how to fish, and he has food for a litetime.
|
Ituralde
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 16:18:00 -
[88]
Armour Repair bonus = LAME
Give it an MWD bonus of a sort, or some sort of engine thing that it makes acceleration and Decelleration relatively easy, and have it not take your soul in cap. It should be able to cross a 30km+ distance and not be anywhere near out of cap.
If you want to up the engine power on the ship that alone could take care of speed issues, just drop the armor repair bonus for an armor HP bonus for endurance. Let it last a while but I am sick of everything gallente being the WTF-Armortank-Pwnmobile. The concept of Gallente would be best in my opinion if it were designed around the utter damage potential at extremely close range rather than on the tanking side as much as it is. Amarr are supposed to be the ones with the unbreakable tank, but hey, its not like you see that happen. But I digress...
Basically IMO the ultimate in the blaster class should be designed more around getting into range and massively outdamaging the opponent rather than outtanking, outdamaging, and outspeeding the opponent and throwing in some ECM so it can kick anything's ass that tries to come anywhere near toe-to-toe with it at its leisure.
Fear is the mind-killer. |
Blind Man
Caldari
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 16:50:00 -
[89]
complaining, about an armor rep bonus
|
Azerrad InExile
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 16:56:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Blind Man
complaining, about an armor rep bonus
Its not a bad bonus, its just out of place with how most people want the ship to be: Fast Neutron Ganker
If the bonus stays it will be a good with an electron or possibly ion setup, but will be next to useless with neutrons. I could live with it since part of the idea of blaster boats is to stay alive long enough to get into range, but would much rather have the 5% to resists bonus that would help all setups.
|
xlop
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 17:15:00 -
[91]
Edited by: xlop on 05/10/2006 17:17:36
i really like the idea of regenerating structure for a galante bonous!
+5 structure HP per sec per lvl of galante bs
[make it work in 5sec bursts, so at lvl 5 thats 125HP rep per 5sec] [just for comparision a medium t2 rep does 177.78hp in 5sec]
--
Imperial College London FTW
-- |
Rodney Caston
Messerschmitt Shipyards
The SUdden Death Squad
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 17:16:00 -
[92]
All this complaining is silly...
I for one, welcome our new Gallente Tanking Overlords.
|
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 17:17:00 -
[93]
I quite like the repped amount bonuses, but for a ship like this I can think of half a dozen things I'd want more...
----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
xlop
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 17:23:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Rodney Caston
All this complaining is silly...
I for one, welcome our new Gallente Tanking Overlords.
no, reasons are
6 low slots [dcu, 2enegized, 2dmg mods] room left for one rep!!!
-25% cap for fitting a mwd, and 650+cap use per burst of mwd [with BS acceleration you use at lest 2 in most situations sometimes 3 bursts or mroe]
the cap use on blasters are wooooot, well to give u an idea, need 4 cap mods each giving 20% to cap recharge to run all 7 blasters with AM, use void and u run outta cap
now with our 1 large rep, and barly any cap. how does a armor hp rep bonous help again?
--
Imperial College London FTW
-- |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 17:23:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 05/10/2006 17:22:51
Originally by: keepiru
I quite like the repped amount bonuses, but for a ship like this I can think of half a dozen things I'd want more...
Of course you can, but Tuxford has to try and keep some sort of game balance. Its not just about throwing on a spiffy bonus and watch the ship catch and kill every non-blaster ship and be done with it. Would you like the mass reduction bonus and armor repping on the Tempest? I would. You probably wouldnt...
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Rodney Caston
Messerschmitt Shipyards
The SUdden Death Squad
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 17:28:00 -
[96]
Originally by: xlop
now with our 1 large rep, and barly any cap. how does a armor hp rep bonous help again?
Your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter...
|
PCX339
Beasts of Burden
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 17:37:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Rodney Caston
Originally by: xlop
now with our 1 large rep, and barly any cap. how does a armor hp rep bonous help again?
Your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter...
HAH, yes indeed.
MWD on a BS means running on the edge of cap death at all times. A rep bonus won't really get used by anyone who is serious about getting in and doing damage. The cap demand from the MWD and blasters won't leave enough for using reps unless you use a setup that reduces damage significantly.
Anyone who thinks that this bonus will let them tank while they close in hasn't tried running Armor Rep and MWD on a BS while closing.
(Exception: if you replace the large armor rep with an officer medium, this bonus is pretty spiffy. Only dev's would do such a thing though )
|
MECTO
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 17:43:00 -
[98]
Originally by: keepiru
I quite like the repped amount bonuses, but for a ship like this I can think of half a dozen things I'd want more...
i got idea MUCH better tbh. just switch domi bonus for hyperion bonus so it would like:
Dominix
+10 to dmg/hp/shield/mining of drones
+7.5% armor rep
Hyperion
+5% hybrid dmg per level
+5% hybrid dmg per level
very balanced
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.05 17:48:00 -
[99]
???
Gallente Damage-boat which can also tank like a monster?
no thanx. Blasterthron is already unstoppable enough to anything but T2 Torp Ravens, and you still whine about it not being good enough
the mass reduction thing was good and how it should be kept imo, but must have ZERO missile slots and very small drone bay so it cant be used like a Nanophoon
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Drelaz
Turbulent
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 19:30:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Drelaz on 05/10/2006 19:32:54
Edited by: Drelaz on 05/10/2006 19:32:22
Mmm alot of people seem to dislike the bonus but i would really like a repper bonus. I don't see the point of a speedy BS, it will still be slow as hell cause its still a BS. A speed bonus doesn't mean anything once your close and all the other BS's will get a very usefull tanking bonus there.
I think its a good call because its important to keep the ships somewhat balanced, the speed bonus would be fine aslong as the other ships also change to something other then the usually tank/dmg BS.
Besides if your really would like speed above a decent tank then nobody is stopping you from fitting atleast one nanofiber, i also doubt the 6 lowslot think will hold (how old is that data anyway, 3 months?).
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SkottE
SkottE Technologies
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 19:34:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
NOOOOOOOOOO
_________________________________________
Want to build Tech2 equipment and ships? Take a
look here to find out! |
SkottE
SkottE Technologies
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 19:35:00 -
[102]
Originally by: SkottE
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
NOOOOOOOOOO
qft
_________________________________________
Want to build Tech2 equipment and ships? Take a
look here to find out! |
Magunus
The Forsakened Few
The ARR0W Project
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 19:41:00 -
[103]
I mentioned this in a thread quite a while ago, but nobody paid any attention. I have no idea what that means, but I thought I'd mention it again.
What about instead of a tank bonus or MWD bonus, it got a bonus to the speed it gets from using an AB? Like 25% per level, applied just like acceleration control. It'd end up with a ship that was somewhat slower than a MWD BS, but it wouldn't get the sig penalty, the cap penalty, and it might still be slow enough that it could still track. Plus, ABs are quite a bit easier to fit, so a better chance of fitting a wicked gank, but not much but speed for defense.
It'd probably need a somewhat lower sig to begin with also, like 300.
---
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 19:42:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Drelaz
Edited by: Drelaz on 05/10/2006 19:32:22
Mmm alot of people seem to dislike the bonus but i would really like a repper bonus. I don't see the point of a speedy BS, it will still be slow as hell cause its still a BS. A speed bonus doesn't mean anything once your close and all the other BS's will get a very usefull tanking bonus there.
I think its a good call because its important to keep the ships somewhat balanced, the speed bonus would be fine aslong as the other ships also change to something other then the usually tank/dmg BS.
Besides if your really would like speed above a decent tank then nobody is stopping you from fitting atleast one nanofiber, i doubt the 6 lowslot thinkg will hold(how old is that data anyway, 3 months?).
6 low slots is the most likely fitting layout.
But do keep in mind that there are still the tier 1 and tier 2 battleships, and they will still be flown. The new tier 3 battleships aren't all how it's going to be throughout, and it would be nice if at least one of the new battleships were a bit different from the others (preferably all would be different and unique, but alas it seems like the symmetry maniacs are winning).
I'd like to remind everyone who has forgotten that symmetry is not balance. Symmetry is just weights evenly distributed according to the same pattern - in effect destroying that which makes every ship unique and valuable to fly.
As for bonuses that'd make the Hyperion unique:
* Sensor dampener efficiency
* MWD mass reduction
* Armour hit point capacity (10% bonus)
* Ship agility bonus (10% bonus)
etc
In essence, armour repair bonus is one of the worst possible things to give this ship, right up there with giving it another damage bonus (but on the other side of the scale). The ship's base stats must be godly in order to be worth a damned with a repair bonus.
-
Three years old |
bldyannoyed
Standard Operations Building Services
Maelstrom Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 19:46:00 -
[105]
This really sucks.
The last blog sounded really good, they were testing a mass reduction bonus which would allow it to be really nimble, do good damage but be made out of paper.
If they have changed that it seems that bonus has been ditched, and theyve given the most maligned bonus ever. People hate rep amount boni.
And unless this things gonna have about 25,000 pg to allow me to fit 8 Neutron II's, an MWD, heavy injector and 2 LAR II's, its gonna completely blow compared to plated neutrathron.
I REALLY liked the idea of a mass reduction. Now it seems that its gonna be some crappy bigger Brutix. Whoop-te-doo.
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Audrea
Momentum.
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 20:18:00 -
[106]
I wouldnt whine about repair bonus before trying it out, I think its pretty cool! of course, gotta try it and not count on dry calculations to dismiss it!
------------------
Save Deimos!
All posts are my personal opinions. |
Sodium Phosphate
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 20:23:00 -
[107]
Just having a combat bs thats non reliant on a cap injector im happy with, would like some kind of cap bonus.
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SkottE
SkottE Technologies
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 20:48:00 -
[108]
I'd prefer MWD bonues over rep bonues anyday... I liked the mass reduction mush better tbh...
_________________________________________
Want to build Tech2 equipment and ships? Take a
look here to find out! |
Taurgil
Konstrukteure der Zukunft
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 21:58:00 -
[109]
Interesting news. Pure Blasterganker may be disappointed, other users who have a demand to a allround ship will be more satisfied, so am i.
Compared to Rhokh's tanking bonus it sounds reasonable.
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Kazamidori
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 22:26:00 -
[110]
It would be nice to have a blasterboat that handles as good (or better) than a Typhoon using MWD(but definetly not with only 75m^3 drone space); though, it would also be interesting to have a Gallente EW battleship with quite a bit of midslot and sensor dampener effectiveness/range bonus.
TRAM |
Gierling
Gallente
Celestial Fleet
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 22:57:00 -
[111]
I actually think the best compromise would be a cap bonus.
It achieves the same effect as the MWD bonus (Negating the effects of fitting an MWD on cap), Offers Blaster pilots something considerable (Cap is thier biggest problem) and helps tanking pretty decently as well.
Change the thorax and the hyperions bonus to a cap bonus and the problem is solved.
Do it Tux, you know you want to.
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Richard Masterson
Occassus Republica
Process of Elimination
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Posted - 2006.10.05 23:03:00 -
[112]
I'd like to point out that those of you who argue that a rep bonus will be no good in fleet operations are making a silly argument.
You say you want a blasterboat? How many times have you used one of those in fleet combat? Maybe once, before you realized you couldn't MWD 150km to go kill people. The armor rep bonus will HELP you in the solopwnmobile role that the mega enjoys currently so well:
L Armor Rep II : 15 sec cycle time, 800 HP repaired. . .
Repair systems operation 5, BS 5 (assuming 7.5% bonus as per brutix bonus) yields:
15 sec * .75 = 11.25 sec cycle time
800 hp * 1.375 = 1100
1100/11.25 = 97.8 hp/ sec repped 195.5 for 2 reps.
. . .and these are low slots so you can enjoy your tank, 1-2 damage mods, and mid slot tackle. The Maelstrom isn't getting that. . .
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Nebuli
Caldari
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.10.05 23:42:00 -
[113]
Tweak Megas mass and agility a bit so it becomes faster and more manouvaerable, possibly a VERY slight CPU buff, but not realy needed.
Then make the tier 3 a big celestis.
CEO - Art of War
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Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.05 23:47:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Richard Masterson
. . .and these are low slots so you can enjoy your tank, 1-2 damage mods, and mid slot tackle. The Maelstrom isn't getting that. . .
The maelstrom has its own problems, its shaping up to be a terrible, redundant ship. But this thread is about the hyperion, not the Maelstrom.
An armor resist bonus would make much more sense, given the role that the ship is in. When recieving approximately 1.5-2.0 times and more damage than your tank can sustain, an armor resist bonus is much better. As in close range combat you routinely recieve far more damage than you can possibly ever hope to tank (without capital reps), a resistance bonus would be far better.
I guess my point is that the resistance bonuses are for pvp and the rep boost bonuses are for pve. Don't put a pve bonus on a pvp ship. This goes for the brutix/cyclone and variants too. Get rid of "racial" bonuses other than weapons (excluding missiles, all missile bonuses should be rof and multidamage type) and give ships the bonuses that work.
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Pharuan
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 00:07:00 -
[115]
Try this one out Tux
Special ability: 10% bonus to armor hitpoints per level.
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CaseusFeles
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 00:11:00 -
[116]
Originally by: MECTO
Originally by: keepiru
I quite like the repped amount bonuses, but for a ship like this I can think of half a dozen things I'd want more...
i got idea MUCH better tbh. just switch domi bonus for hyperion bonus so it would like:
Dominix
+10 to dmg/hp/shield/mining of drones
+7.5% armor rep
Hyperion
+5% hybrid dmg per level
+5% hybrid dmg per level
very balanced
I love this idea, make the dominix the best mission ship, just to upset all the caldari raven pilots.
|
Phrixus Zephyr
Singularity.
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 00:16:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 06/10/2006 00:16:31
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
I highlighted the important bit. That bit there means you should all try and calm down.
Jeez...
|
Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 00:29:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr
Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 06/10/2006 00:16:31
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
I highlighted the important bit. That bit there means you should all try and calm down.
Jeez...
Very few people are going to believe that. Afterall, the tech 2 ammo stats on the test server were just "placeholders" that were there "for now".
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Nathanial Victor
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 00:40:00 -
[119]
actually, i heard they are giving the maelstrom the mwd bonus!
yeah! i would start whining alot more. its doesn't stop there, they are actually gonna give IT the lighter mass and better agility... something about speed being a minmatar advantage.
oh and amarr are getting their explosive crystals and an extra mid slot on half their ships... so basically caldari and gal are majorly getting screwed by these new ships that HAVENT EVEN BEEN RELEASED YET!
seriously. ppl need to panic and get this out to 100 pages b4 the ships are released. the devs obviously have made the mistake that game development and design is their jobs (lol, silly devs)
ccp give the correct ppl control of this game, the infinitely wise and overly analytical forum warriors (some even have graphs to match the emoticons!)
|
Pestillence
Chav-Scum
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 00:50:00 -
[120]
We want diversity, not conformity.
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Nathanial Victor
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 01:09:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Nathanial Victor on 06/10/2006 02:19:40
Originally by: Pestillence
We want diversity, not conformity.
what does that mean anyways !?! Does that have anything to do w/ 'cut & run' mentality? lol, what kinda silly rhetoric is that?
what are we conforming/(or not conforming) to????
oh you mean when they impliment new content 'conforming' to their design of the game?
so like, you want something more diverse... like not what the guys that came up w/ this game had in mind?
there are themes in place for the races. following these themes are what give this game its structure and pilots their racially unique combat styles. i'd say some of the worst designes in the game were the more 'diverse' ones that should have conformed a bit more to established themes.
then again, if you REALLY want more diversity.... you cant get much more diversethan playing another game could ya?
(i almost apologize for taking out my aggression at work on you ppl)
|
Tommy Vercetti
Minmatar
The Nexus Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 02:51:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Kazamidori
It would be nice to have a blasterboat that handles as good (or better) than a Typhoon using MWD(but definetly not with only 75m^3 drone space)
Lol yeh, you could suit it up and own every single bs in the game. I love it when you guys talk about *balance* rather than *conformity*. Im guessing your idea of balance is that you could get in any Gallente bs and pretty much hand the a** back to any bs pilot.
But no please continue.
Originally by: "Murukan"
It's like really you f***ing t*t, it also out damages my tempest so maybe i shouldn't saunter up to the thron at 2km like i'm ready to suck it's c**k.
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Doc Brown
Gallente
Tyrell Corp
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 03:08:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Doc Brown on 06/10/2006 03:09:41
I think the best bonuses so far are:
+7.5% blaster dmg/level of gal bship
+10% AB speed/level of gal bship
This would make it the ultimate blaster boat and be balanced too. I know the damage bonus is slightly higher than normal ships (7.5% over 5%) but since it would apply to only blasters I think it's warranted.
This ship has no extra tanking or cap, pretty much _IF_ it gets in range you are in trouble, otherwise you'll be fine.
Granted, this ship would be very good in Deadspace complexes. However, the Raven is still better in deadspace complexes.
_________________________________________________
There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Nebuli
Caldari
Art of War
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 03:10:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Doc Brown
I think the best bonuses so far are:
+7.5% blaster dmg/level of gal bship
+7.5% AB speed/level of gal bship
This would make it the ultimate blaster boat and be balanced too. I know the damage bonus is slightly higher than normal ships (7.5% over 5%) but since it would apply to only blasters I think it's warranted.
This ship has no extra tanking or cap, pretty much _IF_ it gets in range you are in trouble, otherwise you'll be fine.
My main concern with the Hype as a blaster boat is that if it doesnt get a tracking bonus AND its faster than a mega its not going to hit anything untill its more or less completely stationary, by which time its gonna be in trouble.
Give it a tracking bonus and its basicaly a mega thats a little faster, has an extra turret slot and crap drone bay.
CEO - Art of War
|
soldiier
Karnival of Death Squad
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 03:39:00 -
[125]
Id take the Repier bounes over the MWD any day....mwd is just to the target after that its nothing...armor repier amount means less cap in repier and tank more.
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Android Mindslave
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 03:58:00 -
[126]
If your going to put a placeholder on something...
Man up and put in a tag that says *This is a placeholder for a bonus that we have not assigned yet, if this bonus makes it to the live server, feel free to use this as evidence that we need to do more work on the ship*
|
Doc Brown
Gallente
Tyrell Corp
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 05:27:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Nebuli
My main concern with the Hype as a blaster boat is that if it doesnt get a tracking bonus AND its faster than a mega its not going to hit anything untill its more or less completely stationary, by which time its gonna be in trouble.
Give it a tracking bonus and its basicaly a mega thats a little faster, has an extra turret slot and crap drone bay.
So how about:
+7.5% to hybrid blaster tracking/level
+10% AB speed/level
??
_________________________________________________
There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Sir Bart
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 06:01:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Sir Bart on 06/10/2006 06:03:27
I guess I'd rather not whine in here about that bonus. In general, I think making the hyperion better than blasterthron is going to be tricky since blasterthron is already a very powerful BS. The only weakness it has right now is ECM.
I will suggest some bonuses that I think would be more suitable to a blasterthron that has extra agility (aka hyperion):
+sensor strength per level (to reduce the vulnerability of ECM)
+weapon falloff
+tracking (yeah I know we got it but it's one of the best bonuses for close range pvp)
+agility
+velocity
-signature radius
+cap booster boost amount per level (woot!)
+armor resists (this is better than + armor repair amount since it can be used to almost tank the same dps but can also be used with armor plates... what most blasterships employ for survivability)
I'll also suggest we come up with different idea for the gallente tier 3. Megathron is already a great close range pvp ship and not so great long ramge (well it's easy to fit and has lots of range but it has a weak alpha strike) Why not give the tier 3 gallente ship the ability to one-shot as hard a tempest? Or give us a typhoon style ship with dual damage types (I hope you don't since I have no missile skills). Or... a sensor damp version of a scorpion?
Basically, I'd like something different than a blasterthron, megathron already does that very well.
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Jonay
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 06:29:00 -
[129]
7.5% traking, 5% Rate of fire and increase capacitor , then there will be no problem fitting the mwd and will have traking.
Anyway, with the extra mid slot you could fit a traking computer and rest like mega with the previous mwd bonus, but everybody want the extra mid for ECM.
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Wrayeth
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 06:29:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Nafri
still the gallente ship will be the second fastest BS, only inferior to the phoon
Which, of course, makes the AC tempest completely useless. Thanks, CCP. 
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
|
Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 06:50:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Nafri
still the gallente ship will be the second fastest BS, only inferior to the phoon
Which, of course, makes the AC tempest completely useless. Thanks, CCP.
I completely agree. I mean... since the advent of the car no one bothers using bikes for transportation... right?
...right?
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
Nafri
Caldari
Cataclysm Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 07:42:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Tovarishch
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Nafri
still the gallente ship will be the second fastest BS, only inferior to the phoon
Which, of course, makes the AC tempest completely useless. Thanks, CCP.
I completely agree. I mean... since the advent of the car no one bothers using bikes for transportation... right?
...right?
a bike is totally different for a car -.-
so you admit that the tempest will be a like a bike compared to a car?
Its more fun to drive, but when you really have to do something important you will use the car anway
From Dusk till Dawn
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 07:45:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr
Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 06/10/2006 00:16:31
Originally by: Tuxford
We put an armor repair bonus on it for now.
I highlighted the important bit. That bit there means you should all try and calm down.
Jeez...
Very few people are going to believe that. Afterall, the tech 2 ammo stats on the test server were just "placeholders" that were there "for now".
Its not like Tuxford communicates very often either. It was 2 months since he said anything about the ships, and in 2 months from now, Kali is supposed to be on TQ (december). So if people dont speak up now, they wont get the chance.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 07:47:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/10/2006 07:47:43
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Nafri
still the gallente ship will be the second fastest BS, only inferior to the phoon
Which, of course, makes the AC tempest completely useless. Thanks, CCP.
I still get angry when I think about it. People trained minmatar to be fast and agile, and now he creates a fast and agile blastership for the gallente, which already have most of the best ships in the game for close/medium range pvp. Why? Because blasterboats have problems getting in range. Thats basicly their ONLY weakness, and Tux wants to remove it. Great...
Well, at least he is considering something else than mass reduction for now ...
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 07:53:00 -
[135]
if i was tux i would tell people when they asked that i gave all the ships a survey scanner duration bonus just to see them get even more upset then this. 
I'M IN YOUR SYSTEMS. I'M KILLING YOUR MANS!!! |
Donmadefy
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 08:12:00 -
[136]
from what I remember, the locking range of the Hype is going to be really short, so any hybrid bonus wont be as effective on rails.
How about a 7.5%/level tracking bonus and a +3%/level inertial stabiliser bonus (both to mass and speed)?
That way you're getting the tracking for moving fast, the manouverability (sp?) and speed.
|
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 08:18:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Donmadefy
from what I remember, the locking range of the Hype is going to be really short, so any hybrid bonus wont be as effective on rails.
How about a 7.5%/level tracking bonus and a +3%/level inertial stabiliser bonus (both to mass and speed)?
That way you're getting the tracking for moving fast, the manouverability (sp?) and speed.
You're propsing we lose the damage bonus? I could live with that in exchange for tracking. It would be way too uber to have the second bonus affect agility *and* speed though. One or the other. Preferably agility/mass, that way the ship would be fast on AB/MWD but not uber without it.
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Pesadel0
Vagabundos
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 08:27:00 -
[138]
No wonder tux doest speak to us ,he speaks ,and then the forum brigade jumps on him ,like crazy dogs :).
What tux is missing is a devblog about what he has been doing,with some status on all the new ships ,the ecm "nerf" ,the blob "nerf" and the rest of the stuff that is coming in.
Like sharky said we aren't going to be able to test the new ships on the test server, let us help in the status,improving them not making them overpower.
What we have here is a lack of information and we love information ,come on tux trow us a bone i know you are a sexy dev.
|
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.06 10:00:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Tommy Vercetti
Lol yeh, you could suit it up and own every single bs in the game. I love it when you guys talk about *balance* rather than *conformity*. Im guessing your idea of balance is that you could get in any Gallente bs and pretty much hand the a** back to any bs pilot.
But no please continue.
Conformity: Each race is balanced according to symmetrical patterns. They have their niche, but the concept and execution of each ship is the same. When a new tier is released, all ships, regardless of race, have been balanced so that they perform the same in an equally recognisable way with the only difference being in what weapons they use and what tank they prefere. The conformity concept is that each race is equally different, but in all aspects that matter they are the same.
Diversity: Diversity is a concept that is sort of a holy graal for many of the older players. Each ship is created minding only what each race would have, and the logics around what that race with this sort of ship would ideally be tweaked for. After this design procedure, the ships are then balanced against each other. The diversity concept is that each race are differently equal, but in the end the performance in the hands of a competent pilot will be comparable - albeit not in the same situation.
Diversity is the hard but rewarding way of designing balance in a game. Conformity is the easy mathematical way of designing balance in a game. The examples of conform balance designs in other games are many, while the examples of diverse designs are very few.
The problem with diverse designs is that you can not compare ship A and ship B in situation X, because in situation X ship A is native. The same can be said for ship B in situation Y.
The ease with conform game design is that you can easily compare ships A and B in situation X, because both of these ships have been designed for this situation.
My fear now is that the new tier 3 battleships all conform strictly to fleet combat, in which case they will all have long lock ranges and the only two differences will be weapons and tanks. The tanks have already been established, although it must be said that shield or armor boost amount is completely useless in fleet wheras resistance is not. If one think, weapons have also been established.
What we will have is this:
* each ship get generic ship A
* Amarr will get more armour, armour resistance, and laser damage aplied to ship A to create the Abaddon
* Caldari will get more shield, shield resistance, and railgun range aplied to ship A to create the Rokh
etc.
Very predictable, very conform, essentially the easy way out. Very boring.
Each race will with the conform way of ship design be able to participate in each form of combat. The conform designs main advantage is that you can design a game where your choice of race, class, etc at the beginning decides for you what you will be in the end game. The reason for this is that the choices are risk free - you will still be able to compete as an Elven Druid in fleet combat against Orcish Berserkers, only in a very slightly different way.
EVE's original concept was that choices in the beginning set the pace for different trainings, and nothing else. It is designed openly, meaning that you are not bound to Amarr if you made an Amarr character, you can still use Minmatar engineering just as easily as one of the Brutors.
For this reason, designing EVE conformly makes no sense. It is only a matter of time before an Intaki can compete in sniping duels with the Caldari, why give Gallente ships snipers in the first place?
The truely RP people will be faced with a difficult challenge - challenges are good and fun! - how do I use my race' specialized ships originally and diversely to compete with my enemy on their ground?
But it is important to remember that it is difficult to design diversely, especially with so many races in game! Kneejerks thus tend to create, for example, ECM-NosDoms.
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Three years old |
Kunming
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.06 12:58:00 -
[140]
Simply give Hyperion the following bonus:
+10% hybrid dmg bonus
no other bonus is needed.
On a different note I invite Tuxford to fly a blasterboat first, it seems you simply calculate DPS values and then decide if something is too strong or too weak.. how else could the horrible idea of "assault missile" been created.. always hitting high DPS missiles.. welcome to the end of EVE...
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Loka
Gallente
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.06 13:20:00 -
[141]
7,5% dmg Bonus
5% armor Bonus per level
That would get my vote. A nice buffer which would give us the time needed to get in range or to live long enough to win a fight.
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Noob In Action - [NIA]
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Donmadefy
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Posted - 2006.10.06 15:22:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Donmadefy
from what I remember, the locking range of the Hype is going to be really short, so any hybrid bonus wont be as effective on rails.
How about a 7.5%/level tracking bonus and a +3%/level inertial stabiliser bonus (both to mass and speed)?
That way you're getting the tracking for moving fast, the manouverability (sp?) and speed.
You're propsing we lose the damage bonus? I could live with that in exchange for tracking. It would be way too uber to have the second bonus affect agility *and* speed though. One or the other. Preferably agility/mass, that way the ship would be fast on AB/MWD but not uber without it.
Would it be uber? Perhaps I was a bit unclear with the numbers. A nanofibre gives +20m/s, 12.5% mass reduction (and a structure penalty) - what if the second bonus increased the nanofibre speed by 4m/s per level and mass reduction by 2% per level? So one nanofibre used by a lvl 5 pilot gave +40m/s and a -22.5% mass reduction, the latter subject to stacking penalties maybe?
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Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.06 15:24:00 -
[143]
Minor note: nanofibers increase agility (actually, decrease it) while inertia stabilizers will decrease mass.
The difference? Inertia Stabilizers will increase MWD/AB performance and agility while nanofibers increase ship base speed and agility.
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Three years old |
Pille Dufrais
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Posted - 2006.10.06 15:32:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Cuebick
I have come to the conclusion that the Gallente people are NEVER EVER happy with what they get.. EVER.
Except for the Domi, Ishtar and Taranis.
The Mega for me is great and tbfh imo tier3 bs wont be the kings of the hills.
That one came from the blue. Aren't you confusing Gallente with Amarr, or maybe Minmatar? Or possibly Caldari.
No, wait. Everyone's got whiners. Or perhaps, the term should be "everyone else", since it's really relative.
At least Gallente get an answer (very quick too) to questions about a non existant ship - Amarr have many pages of posts filled with information on the problems they currently face (and some rubbish trolling ofc) and receive no response......
Gallente seem to be doing ok in comparison
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Idara
Caldari
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.06 15:33:00 -
[145]
It's already been said.
But..
Armour rep bonus? Teh sux.
Yes, lets make every goddamn ship class have a ship that mirrors its smaller brothers. I really hate what you've done Tux. Ships used to be unique. Then along came the Mark II project, and everything either has a repper bonuses, or a 5% armour/shield resists. Sure the ships prior to Mk II sucked. But at least they were unique.
Now there has to be a frig/cruiser/BC/BS with the exact same bonuses.
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Kunming
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.06 15:35:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Pille Dufrais
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Cuebick
I have come to the conclusion that the Gallente people are NEVER EVER happy with what they get.. EVER.
Except for the Domi, Ishtar and Taranis.
The Mega for me is great and tbfh imo tier3 bs wont be the kings of the hills.
That one came from the blue. Aren't you confusing Gallente with Amarr, or maybe Minmatar? Or possibly Caldari.
No, wait. Everyone's got whiners. Or perhaps, the term should be "everyone else", since it's really relative.
At least Gallente get an answer (very quick too) to questions about a non existant ship - Amarr have many pages of posts filled with information on the problems they currently face (and some rubbish trolling ofc) and receive no response......
Gallente seem to be doing ok in comparison
Go check out the deimos thread...
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Idara
Caldari
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.06 15:36:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Kunming
Go check out the deimos thread...
ZOMG one ship!
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Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.06 15:40:00 -
[148]
The problem with the "Amarr" thred is that it is general. It is extremely difficult for the devs to answer anything in there, and it gets only worse due to the torrential amount of replies.
While the Deimos thred is very specific, it also suffer from torrential reply syndrome.
This thread, by contrast, is very specific and would've died out had Tuxford not replied.
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Three years old |
Pille Dufrais
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Posted - 2006.10.06 15:46:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Ithildin
The problem with the "Amarr" thred is that it is general. It is extremely difficult for the devs to answer anything in there, and it gets only worse due to the torrential amount of replies.
While the Deimos thred is very specific, it also suffer from torrential reply syndrome.
This thread, by contrast, is very specific and would've died out had Tuxford not replied.
The Amarr thread makes some very specific points - these were made in the first few pages
There have been a lot of replies - I'm fairly sure if there had been a dev response "yes / No / We're looking at it" as early as there was in this thread - the amarr thread would have died too
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Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.06 16:33:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Tovarishch
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Nafri
still the gallente ship will be the second fastest BS, only inferior to the phoon
Which, of course, makes the AC tempest completely useless. Thanks, CCP.
I completely agree. I mean... since the advent of the car no one bothers using bikes for transportation... right?
...right?
a bike is totally different for a car -.-
so you admit that the tempest will be a like a bike compared to a car?
Its more fun to drive, but when you really have to do something important you will use the car anway
You missed the point.
Firstly, there are different purposes and roles for different ships. Bonuses dictate those applications. There are always going to be ships that are not as good as others (or second best) at some roles. Just because something is suddenly second best does NOT make it useless.
Secondly, the damn ship isn't even out yet. Let's see what is finally proposed and then save the caps lock and hysterics for once it is actually on Tranquility.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
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