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Yume Mei
Khanid Dynamics
5
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 05:46:46 -
[751] - Quote
The whole "lack of risk" argument is pretty silly. Fighters are pretty expensive for the performance they offer.
I think what it really comes down to is stats.
People with fragile egos look at ships lost vs ships destroyed. If it isn't listed it may as well have never happened.
Fighter kills wont be listed so they don't count as defender losses, it's obviously not fair.
tldr: oh no my killboard stats  |

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
6534
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 05:50:17 -
[752] - Quote
Udonor wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:There was, of course, a simpler way of solving this problem without nerfing the uniqueness of fighters.
Make aggression rules apply to the ship they're assigned to. Small frigates instalocking ships on gates in lowsec go boom to gate guns the moment any fighters/drones assigned to them aggress something. It should have really been the only solution considered, but instead another element of the sandbox and the nature of EVE in general is killed off in a kneejerk reaction to what really amounts as nothing more than increased forum whining due to an influx of CCP's latest target audience - people who play every other MMO that EVE isn't. Now if you don't mind upsetting the status quo in low sec... CCP could create some real fun from predatory antics at gates. That is CONCORD actions are what makes hi-sec instead of low sec. So logically Empire Navies and Police should be what make low sec into low sec instead of null. Therefore any suspect acts committed on the same grid as a gate could have a low chance of generating an Empire NPC Factional "Incursion". After all gate space and activity is likely monitored from the gate structure. Suspect activity at gates could be interpreted as disruptive and interfering with the flow of local Empire faction commerce and economy. Whether NPC owned or not there are tax considerations,e tc. Such Empire Incursions if they occur would lack the surgical precision and certain immediate deadliness of CONCORD responses. They would certainly appear near gate and mobile portions then patrol planets and moon. Thus they might well stumble across suspect carriers at now suspect POS (extending shield aid to carrier) anywhere in system -- or not before suspect timer expires. Of course factional politics would not support factional Navy/Police Incursions lasting more than half an hour without additional suspect activity or NPC Faction kills (local grid escalation too). Repeated suspect activity within a certain time frame (i.e. the moving average of suspect acts per minute) could gradually increase probability and possible size of response. There might even be a mechanism that causes a brief Empire Navy Incursion across the entire constellation.
Overly complicated and arbitrarily game-breaking for players who choose to participate in the already-risky life of lowsec compared to just making fighter assist hosts get shot at by gate guns. What you're suggesting is also overly-punitive for what is, essentially, the wild west of New Eden, especially if you're suggesting said Navy response should be capable of taking out a supposed 'suspect' POS.
CONCORD actions are not what make high-security space. CONCORD actions are merely an aspect of high-security space, as are Navy responses to low-security and bad-standing/enemy militia players. Again, please learn the mechanics of lowsec before trying to turn it into something it's not.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
6534
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 06:03:11 -
[753] - Quote
Udonor wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:
mad bro? you can silence me but you cant silence the truth!
Truth is a religious concept. Come back and try again when you have facts, supported with data and/or citations. GG. The best data is supported by superior firepower (as data can be faked and twisted & the legitimacy of authorities on citations is usually a bigger religious issue than the truth itself). This issue should be decided by a duel between the sides. Name a place and time. Appoint leaders for a battle royale or appoint champions. (LOL probably a battle royale for each side to decide those issues too.) I am protesting that CCP has no Popcorn BPO for my grandstand concession stand.
You'll have to cite your sources on those assertions because at the end of the day, that PC you're using to make them is a direct result of proper academic and scientific endeavour, as is the comfortable first-world life you live that allows you to have one in the first place. As for the 'issue', the subject I was addressing was making personal attacks, subjective assessments of another forum member that he knows nothing about. To call subjective assertions like that 'truth' is a perfect example of what 'truth' means to religiously-minded peoples, 'religiously' in this context meaning ideologically. A perfect example of such ideological mindedness would be flat earthers, who really do exist, but instead of fact-based arguments and evidence, because they have none, they resort to attacking their opposition. At the end of the day, this is little more than a spiteful concession that they have no evidence.
You're right, data can be faked. That's why repetition and predictability are required, because that's how you detect fake data. So while data can be faked, it's actually very difficult to hide fake data, which is why we can conclude with reasonable and predictable certainty that the earth is not flat, and that's a fact. But a flat earther will still proclaim that the truth is, the earth is flat. Anyway, in this case, the 'issue' was solved by a forum moderator, who has more 'firepower' than all of us. Clearly, and according to your own 'logic', that makes his truth superior, yes?
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Heavy Met4l Queen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
67
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 06:10:35 -
[754] - Quote
FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:Words.
In the game of conquest, who cares about the pawns if the king yet reigns?
|

Dedbforucme
PH0ENIX COMPANY Phoenix Company Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 06:25:03 -
[755] - Quote
Removing the ability to assign fighters instead of changing because it is too broken, then what is next? CCP going to have to make it so interceptors can't warp through bubbles because it is too broken? |

Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
719
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 07:10:29 -
[756] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:I know this is a hard concept to grasp for some of you. Polite works far better then inarticulate swearing and insults. You are mad, we get that and do not need you to make any sexual references to prove that for you sex and anger are one and the same. You don't like the changes? Some of you have done a fine job of suggesting alternatives or asking for lessening of the changes ot just voicing your concerns. Good. Others, not so much. Me? I am in favour of the change because I never think a person should be able to be totally uninvolved and still be a part of the on field force. I dislike off-grid boosting for the same reason. But the fighters were a mechanic that was fine, for a while, but then became abused more and more. What did you expect? That since it was fine yesterday it must be fine today and always will be? The game changes, for the better or worse will show in the longer run. But if you want to be heard, if you want to have a single iota of a chance to be heard by CCP then keep it civil. If what I said ticked you off . . . well, I am running for CSMX. Vote accordingly.
Uh, Mike. I dunno if you didn't notice, but CCP didn't respond to the wormhole threadnaut telling them to reverse the change (btw, we still haven't seen any of the promised graphs yet!). CCP hasn't responded to the ISBoxer thread, especially after that incident where they lied to us about having a meeting, not to mention the fact that CCP is working on a third-party program (in direct violation of their third party policy, I may add) that duplicates one of the very programs they just banned. CCP didn't respond to the hundred-and-one other threads where they put up a sticky, said "too bad, so sad", and then never touched it again. Some of us *have* suggested changes to many, many of these threads, and we were met with more silence than an uninhabited C1 right after downtime. So you'll have to forgive us if we take this with a grain of salt the size of a Iapetan Titan as some of us don't trust CCP anymore to respond or listen to their playerbase if you don't have a "CSM" tag next to your name. People are tired of being told "we really do want your opinions, honest!" and then watching CCP turn around so fast they get whiplash.
You want to do some good in this thread? Post supporting evidence for this change. Engage the people who elected you. Be more than the politicians who promise the moon and the stars for a vote and then never pick up their phone once their in office.
Additionally, may be obtain a comment from you telling us how exactly that Revenant was "totally uninvolved"? What part of that lossmail says "I'm safe and untouchable"? |

Victini
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 07:20:14 -
[757] - Quote
skynet is one of the reasons that many supers has been hunted down and killed.. so its not safe as u think it is (espescially when u have few titans ready to jump and DD the ***t out of it
So please keep as is .. countering it is not so hard |

beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
46
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 07:44:45 -
[758] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Additionally, may be obtain a comment from you telling us how exactly that Revenant was "totally uninvolved"? What part of that lossmail says "I'm safe and untouchable"? On the killmail, the Waiver of Untouchability is located just to the right of the Notice of Improper Logoff. |

Hammering Hank
Eve Engineering Logistics Eve Engineering
2
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 07:46:29 -
[759] - Quote
Pomponius Sabinus wrote:
Well it seems like you realised the problem is risk vs reward while asigning fighters from the edge of a POS FF. But instead of making it more interesting by finding some way to make it more dangerous to asign fighters you sadly take the easy way out and just remove it. It would be way more interesting for the game if you found a way to make carriers that asigned fighters more vulnerable.
The best solution is to introduce a Fighter Assist module only for carriers. Like a Triage module, it needs an activation timer and stops all locomotion. It could also increase the Signature Radius of the Carrier (easier to scan down) and not allow any remote boosting. Recommend naming the module T-Meg. The new module allows fighter assist to stay but carriers become more vulnerable. |

ISD Supogo
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
466
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 07:50:42 -
[760] - Quote
Removed another rule-breaking post and those quoting it.
Quote:Forum rules3. Ranting is prohibited.A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. 8. Use of profanity is prohibited.The use of profanity is prohibited on the EVE Online forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter. 31. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.
ISD Supogo
Lieutenant Commander
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|

Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
722
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 07:51:01 -
[761] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Additionally, may be obtain a comment from you telling us how exactly that Revenant was "totally uninvolved"? What part of that lossmail says "I'm safe and untouchable"? On the killmail, the Waiver of Untouchability is located just to the right of the Notice of Improper Logoff.
Of course, how could I miss that? It was right in front of me the whole time!
e: And the irony of removing posts for "ranting" when the only thing people have ever wanted in their entire lives on these forums is human interaction from Devs other than "first" and "I support this idea" astounds me. It's no wonder people are upset.... |

Eessi
Murderous Inc
26
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 07:55:46 -
[762] - Quote
Solid change and is much needed. Thank you for being bold. |

Xavious Kane
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 08:23:54 -
[763] - Quote
I think that it does need some work, however I think that removing it entirely, or modifying fighter behavior significantly would be a bad thing. Putting the carrier more at risk I think would go a ways to help the problem.
A module on the carrier or other ship to receive fighter assistance was an idea I saw in my skim of the discussion so far, but I like the idea of not being able to have them assigned while within X range of a station, gate or POS force field or if the carrier happens to find its self in a warp disruption bubble. Communications and other interference given off by the structures would cause an interruption in the link of the fighters causing them to be immediately recalled or otherwise disconnected. Drones/Fighters not assigned or on grind with the carrier at the time would still behave as they normally do, because the disruption is only in the "long range" of the drone control being disrupted.
It would add a bit more risk to the carriers who if caught have to risk more for the service that they provide. And as a side effect of that, there would be more carriers to hunt for those that like to do that sort of thing.
|

Kane Carnifex
Yard Evolution The Kadeshi
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 08:54:36 -
[764] - Quote
Skynet, an overview and suggestions review
Skynet explanation As already written down, a carrier/super with a drone track & dmg fit sitting on a safe spot. The safe spot is defined as on the edge of the POS, Docking range station, unprobable in space or similar to this. The drone assign function is a so called fleet multiplier like ewar, logistic, on/off grid booster and many more. 5 Fighter/Bombers per Ship with an DPS output against medium/large vessels from around ca. 1000 DPS (all V). We will later have a look into the risk/counter mechanics.
Deeper view into the fleet multiplier This DPS amount is similar to another 1-2 Vessels in fight, only for none drone boats. (A Myrmidon without her own drones cannot perform the same damage as a Brutix (Brutix can easily bring 650DPS on field with a decent armor tank)
LetGÇÖs find some other mechanics which allows us a possible boosts with less risk or nearly no risk. They are not an problem, as both parties can bring the same boots
Off GÇô Grid Booster either in Space or in a POS similar to an orca/raq boost. I am not very familiar with this mechanic but my knowledge says here it is an advantage which is very safe.
Counter: Bring your own off grid booster, welcome you are even. But it is not possible to prevent getting the boost or to kill the booster.
## Amor based Fleet with ewar tools in the mid, it doesnGÇÖt matter 10 dampners, 1 to 2 per ships will bring you enemy closer or kills the logistic completely.
Counter: You donGÇÖt fight, or you know the fitting of the enemy which you can counter fit. But if you realize this to late you will lose the fight.
## Also very nice is a cloaky camper, you cannot actively counter him.
Counter: But you can bait him. I am fine with this mechanic as I love to snack shiny bling covert ops, never was it easier to kill 1 billion per ship.
## The Skynet carrier The difference how to counter it is the location of the Skynet carrier. We know which the carier can be placed near a station, a POS or an unprobable postion in space.
Counter You always allowed to bring more logistic to even out the incoming fighter DPS. You can kite the fighter which make it less possible for the fighter to apply dmg.
A Carrier near a station can be pushed to dock up, goodbye extra fighter dps and maybe lost in space. As far as I know you need to be on grid with the fighter to reconnect to them nüè.
Carrier at a POS Kill the POS. Kill the Carrier faster than he could get back into the FF. You may want to use a titan or a dread fleet. (Yes, this why you install a cyno jammer, as you donGÇÖt like these kind of visits.)
Unprobable Carrier I read about this in the forum and it can be countered with the right ship, implants, ******* expensive but you will find you kill itGǪ once you find it there will be no escape.
Note: If you cannot kill a carrier with your fleet DPS , you will not have a chance against it on grid or off grid.
IMHO
Your 20 men fleet is hunting for everything in a region which doesnGÇÖt belong to you. This region knows you and chooses the fight which they could win. Either you travel through a gatecamp and die in the camp as you not able to get to optimal or you will be baited. Nobody would bait you if they are not able to win the isk war or to bring the death to you whole fleet. Due the intel in this region the defender knows more about you than you about his fleet.
You can expect following long before you know the enemy fleet: -More vessels (more DPS) -Powerful vessels (fleet multiplier) -Logistic -If you only bring stuff from one race, be ready to get jammed. -Lets cover the jamming under EWAR. -Skynet Carrier (fleet multiplier)
So you donGÇÖt choose the fight, the living people choose the fight and it is not required to have a fair fight. Why should we? It is eve, RL ethics doesnGÇÖt work here. This is war, combat it will be unfair for one of the fighting sideGǪ the advantage is to let them believe which they could win or have a bigger support fleet in the backhand.
LetGÇÖs spin this little bit up. You jump into a system which is heavily camped as it is an pocket entrance. You see fighter drones on grid and decide to first probe out the carrier for a Titan drive by. You bring a fleet up which supports the titan and a fleet which fights the local gate camp. Unfortunately once the Titan landed in the System it got holded by an hic and the defender brings in more reinforcesGǪ. Escalation escalation escalationGǪ
Is there now a Problem?
People build up a POS, Station or make a deep safe spot somewhere in space. They are the defenders which want to defend their space unfortunately CCP doesnGÇÖt provide tools for defending space neither a own controlled concord or gate guns or something else to defend it. But you can use carriers to provide a locate defense in this system which allows you to turn a fight to your advantages, yes you also can bring an offgrid boosterGǪ I
The Skynet carrier live in 0.0 also with the advantages and disadvantages which this space area brings. Why should a PVP Fleet from Highsec get more advantageGǪ they come to unknown k-space and search for a fight the others just live and defend their space whit it.
Also you can easy kite out the fighter drones with an cruiser as these small medium scale pvp ships are always build for kitingGǪ you will be hard to hit, once you get webbed it is over.
I am starting to spinning around with my points, but I think I made my point clear which I donGÇÖt think this is a good decision to remove this function. If you cannot fight it ask you friends for help.
Capitals Ships requires high skills and it also requires high skills to counter it easy or a huge amount of mid skilled player to kill it.
Its my point of view, and yes i am pro skynet :)
|

Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2306
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 08:57:01 -
[765] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Additionally, may be obtain a comment from you telling us how exactly that Revenant was "totally uninvolved"? What part of that lossmail says "I'm safe and untouchable"?
Perhaps logoffski-drive-by-doomsdays aren't a counter practical enough for the masses to consider it good gameplay.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
|

Kira Hizu
PH0ENIX COMPANY HOLDINGS Phoenix Company Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 08:58:56 -
[766] - Quote
By any more changes to carriers or supers will cause more problems as theirs a use for the fighters. Any change to capitals will make hard feelings as we love our space ship shooter game. |

Vlada 636
SPEKTR LINE SYSTEMS
1
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 09:37:22 -
[767] - Quote
-¥-ò-Æ-ù-ö-ú-£-É-Ö-ó-ò -P-ó-æ-ÿ-á-É-ó-¼ -É-í-ÿ-í-ó -ö-á-P-¥-P-Æ !!!!! -Æ-½ -Æ-í-ò -ÿ-í-ƒ-P-á-ó-ÿ-ó-ò, -ù-É-º-ò-£ -» -Ü-É-º-É-¢-í-» -¥-É -Ü-É-á-ÿ-ò-á !!!??? -ó-P-ô-ö-É -í-Ü-ÿ-¢-½ -ÿ -ƒ-¢-ò-Ü-í-½ -ƒ-P-ù-Æ-á-É-¬-É-Ö-ó-ò -ƒ-P-ó-á-É-º-ò-¥-¥-½-ò -ù-á-»... |

Goin Off
Manson Family Advent of Fate
12
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 09:50:07 -
[768] - Quote
It's simple, keep fighters as is but prevent capitals that deploy them from assigning them to be anywhere near a pos shield. It would certainly put the carrier/super at risk of being tackled and killed being vulnerable in space and probable. Keeping them balls deep on grid would be a benefit ONLY to the larger alliances because of the numbers the large alliances put up, but, would put the smaller alliances at an extreme disadvantage simply because of numbers.
CCP in the last year are doing everything to discourage the ownership/use of capitals in EVE. It's a disservice to all of us older characters with high numbers of skill points that have literally trained and worked for YEARS to to acquire the assets and skills to fly capitals.
Examples:
1. Rorqual (Poor Mans Jump Freighter) - NO LONGER VIABLE DUE TO JUMP RANGE NERF! What's left is providing fleet bonuses and compressing ore, MEH. Btw, I own a rorq and can't imagine the concept of a battle rorq except as a setup for a good km.
2. Carriers - Jump range nerf has really complicated null sec logistics for small alliances. The big alliances that CCP continues to suck up to don't care since they typically furnish their cap pilots with carriers wherever they need them to be.
CCP is going the wrong way with all of these capital nerfs by listening to all the Intergalactic "WHINERS" that are unwilling to invest the time and effort to fly capital ships, much less risk the ISK invested to buy a capital and fly them. |

Dean Dewitt
Babylon Knights DARKNESS.
27
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 09:51:29 -
[769] - Quote
Kane Carnifex, you said it bro, nothing more to say :)
Goin Off, people in my alliance don't really move their carrier to make their logistique, I personnaly don't move my carrier to bring some ships from high-sec but yeah old player and new player won't skill for capitals as they are becoming useless and CCP don't like capitals but we players like these ships and skill these ships for a long time. So please CCP don't remove capitals, make them more usefull, may be make them more expensive to product. |

Neyko Turama
Black Arrows Sev3rance
2
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 09:53:55 -
[770] - Quote
Where is the poll btw? |

Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
306
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 10:01:58 -
[771] - Quote
I must admit to a bit of confusion.
If you at CCP didn't want this situation, whatever made you think that applying the originating carrier's mod bonuses to assigned fighters was a change worth implementing?
Assigned fighters were AFAIK not a huge problem when they were assigned without ship bonuses (specifically damage and tracking).
|

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
656
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 10:09:09 -
[772] - Quote
So the changes to remove the ability to assign fighters I agree with, it can ruin PvP though it does give advantages to a defender which is sometimes needed. This will make it more difficult to rat in contested i.e. camped areas, but thats acceptable, hiding next to a POS shield is kinda meh and I never did it.
Do not remove the ability for fighters to warp, the issue is that fighters are damn expensive and when you carrier rat you have to be ready to get out fast, if you keep leaving fighters behind all the time then its not worth using for the small guy, doing this will damage the smaller guys a lot.
Ella's Snack bar
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Kane Carnifex
Yard Evolution The Kadeshi
4
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 10:18:12 -
[773] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:So the changes to remove the ability to assign fighters I agree with, it can ruin PvP though it does give advantages to a defender which is sometimes needed. This will make it more difficult to rat in contested i.e. camped areas, but thats acceptable, hiding next to a POS shield is kinda meh and I never did it. .
Because you do not have a Fleet which is able to kill a Carrier by a drive by? Either you avoid the battle or try to get in advantage by more logistics etc. It doesn-¦t ruin PvP, you just don't agree ti fight with your disadvantage.
|

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
656
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 10:32:42 -
[774] - Quote
Kane Carnifex wrote:Dracvlad wrote:So the changes to remove the ability to assign fighters I agree with, it can ruin PvP though it does give advantages to a defender which is sometimes needed. This will make it more difficult to rat in contested i.e. camped areas, but thats acceptable, hiding next to a POS shield is kinda meh and I never did it. . Because you do not have a Fleet which is able to kill a Carrier by a drive by? Either you avoid the battle or try to get in advantage by more logistics etc. It doesn-¦t ruin PvP, you just don't agree ti fight with your disadvantage.
I don't understand what you are trying to say, but there are too many people looking for fights with a carrier ready to assign fighters, that being said it was a mechanic that allowed the smaller group to take on bigger groups without risking too much, which is what I like about it.
The removal of that bait possibility is a positive, but the removal of an ability to fight when out-numbered is a negative, I am not sure whether I am in favour of the removal of skynet or not, if I was to really want to define my position its where the small guy can operate in 0.0, so on that basis I think I am slightly in favour of keeping skynet.
In terms of the warping ability if that is removed for fighters I don't see them being useful for PvE at this point for smaller entities, so am totally against that.
Ella's Snack bar
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Kane Carnifex
Yard Evolution The Kadeshi
4
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 10:51:43 -
[775] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
I don't understand what you are trying to say, but there are too many people looking for fights with a carrier ready to assign fighters, that being said it was a mechanic that allowed the smaller group to take on bigger groups without risking too much, which is what I like about it.
Exactly the point :)
You could even fight with 3 Skiffs an incoming Gang or likely bait them until you friends from the neighbour hood arrives.
I think it is also funny to fight an incoming cruiser gang with some Assault frigates which using assigned fighter. Here the attacker have the option to take the fight and may lose some ships but once you kill the assault frigates they also loose the Fighter. Also it would be possible to bring more people which just let you pop the frigates faster.
I have the feeling which the PvP Gangs are complaining of to much defense in the system they want to kill hulks and other shiny ships with a pve tank.
|

Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx
133
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 11:43:22 -
[776] - Quote
Kane Carnifex wrote:
Exactly the point :)
You could even fight with 3 Skiffs an incoming Gang or likely bait them until you friends from the neighbour hood arrives.
I think it is also funny to fight an incoming cruiser gang with some Assault frigates which using assigned fighter. Here the attacker have the option to take the fight and may lose some ships but once you kill the assault frigates they also loose the Fighter. Also it would be possible to bring more people which just let you pop the frigates faster.
I have the feeling which the PvP Gangs are complaining of to much defense in the system they want to kill hulks and other shiny ships with a pve tank.
This is quite literally what every gang who comes roaming near us wants. you pop out a few defense ships and they run even if they out number you 3:1. and that's without fighters. |

Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
930
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 11:59:51 -
[777] - Quote
Kane Carnifex wrote:Skynet, an overview and suggestions review
Some of your knowledge of this is 6 months behind the curve (atleast taking your post at face value) - people doing this are increasingly moving away from sitting at the edge of the FF towards other ways of using POS mechanics to be safe where they don't need to move back inside the FF to become perfectly safe.
Even a ship with interceptor speed and sig will struggle to kite off fighters unless with a head start let alone a cruiser from what I've seen.
The revenant that got killed while it had been involved with doing skynet stuff got caught on login 20-30km outside the POS FF possibly at the spot where he cyno'd in. (which IMO is a good example of why fighter assignment should follow cyno restrictions around a POS). |

Savant Alabel
Locus Signatures
15
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 12:58:30 -
[778] - Quote
Removing off-grid fighters assist is very good. |

FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
845
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 13:02:56 -
[779] - Quote
The more I think about this topic, the more it irritates me.
Some things in this game are clearly broken - e.g. POS mechanics. Others are annoying to one very vocal group of people who practice a specific set of kiting tactics and are very successful most of the time with those tactics. Then that group encounters a situation where their tactic doesn't work. Someone has a counter to the fast roaming, kiting gang! Oh the horror! Instead of saying bring a different fleet composition, they complain as loudly as possible to everyone who will listen.
So, the solution is to destroy the depth of the battlefield by essentially making every contributor, except leadership boosts, be on the same grid. Just like that we've gone from something approximating late 20th century naval warfare back to 18th century warfare. Is Eve a better game with tactics from Trafalgar than Midway?
Additionally, I have never used this tactic, but it sounds like the game was working fine. It wasn't broken. It was not invincible. Annoying perhaps, at least for the unprepared. But is it really worse than 200 Archons with sentry drones sitting off a station or IHub? The small roaming gang cannot counter that either. Nor could they counter thirty Dominixes... Or any number of other compositions. If I set up my capitals in one system, what stops you from going around that system?
Does this change mean that CCP really doesn't know what to do with capital ships?
Does this change mean that CCP really cannot think of ways to alter the environment to make this tactic less appealing in some circumstances where it might be more problematic?
I thought it was up to the players to push the edges of the sandbox? Unless we broke the edges, CCP should keep out of it. Particularly when they don't seem to understand it or have good idea where they are going with it.
In short, as someone who has been playing for eight years, I am concerned by this proposal and think it is inelegant and short-sighted at best.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
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Kane Carnifex
Yard Evolution The Kadeshi
4
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Posted - 2015.03.02 13:22:05 -
[780] - Quote
Ncc 1709 wrote:
This is quite literally what every gang who comes roaming near us wants. you pop out a few defence ships and they run even if they out number you 3:1. and that's without fighters.
They only fight, if they know for 100% they could win. This opinion doesn't count for all, as i had very nice WH pew pew :)
Rroff wrote: Some of your knowledge of this is 6 months behind the curve (atleast taking your post at face value) - people doing this are increasingly moving away from sitting at the edge of the FF towards other ways of using POS mechanics to be safe where they don't need to move back inside the FF to become perfectly safe.
Sitting in the middle of you POS guns and dampeners to be safe? I knew this with a Cyno and a MTU directly on top of an POS.
I am open for new Information :)
Rroff wrote: Even a ship with interceptor speed and sig will struggle to kite off fighters unless with a head start let alone a cruiser from what I've seen - many of the original complaints were purely due to people scouting in inties, etc. getting initial tackle for a small gang then getting alpha'd trying to escape when fighters arrived.
These people live in this system which allows them to use a Hulk for mining. You don-¦t start in Jita with a travel hulk to go mining in 0.0. So don-¦t wonder if a defence less ship is protected. A Procurer/Skiff should fit a scram per default.
Related to you Post the problem is not the assign it is the tracking and dmg which i cannot confirm. Frigates which are smart fast moving are not hittable.
Rroff wrote: The revenant that got killed while it had been involved with doing skynet stuff got caught on login 20-30km outside the POS FF possibly at the spot where he cyno'd in. (which IMO is a good example of why fighter assignment should follow cyno restrictions around a POS).
Jeah, we know the problem which you can probe scan a player during login as the ship is quite slow. But you could also dock in a station if you do not need your ship (If you have a station.)
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