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Bye Bye AFK Cloaking

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Adriana Nolen Sama Guild 54	Posted - 2015.03.22 02:19:44 - [1] - Quote Quote: E. Observatory arrays Dedicated to intelligence gathering. ...... be able to affect or pinpoint cloak users. .... Speechless
Arthur Aihaken Narada 4160	Posted - 2015.03.22 02:22:28 - [2] - Quote Adriana Nolen wrote: Speechless That's the sound of the AFK cloakers you here. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Dradis Aulmais RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic 723	Posted - 2015.03.22 02:25:09 - [3] - Quote Pft could grow balls so CCP gave out some. Afk cloaking has never been a problem for us. I'm cloaked in your thread, stealing your info.
Adriana Nolen Sama Guild 54	Posted - 2015.03.22 02:26:46 - [4] - Quote Dradis Aulmais wrote: Pft could grow balls so CCP gave out some. Afk cloaking has never been a problem for us. Yeah, if truly afk, no big deal. This array seems to be worded to affect non-afk cloakers.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 20662	Posted - 2015.03.22 02:34:40 - [5] - Quote Who cares if you could pinpoint them? As it is 9/10 people who complain about cloakers cant be arsed to undock anyways, so what does knowing the location of the possible hostile going to change? Now instead of "Go away cloaky bastard whos mother I totally had relations with last night!" being typed in local from the perfect safety of the station, it will be "Will someone please go take care of the cloaky that's somewhere within 50km of planet 3 for me because I wanna mine and he might be armed and have bad intentions!!!!!".. once again typed in local from the perfect safety of a station. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?* Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 4723	Posted - 2015.03.22 02:40:27 - [6] - Quote If it uncloaked everyone in the system once an hour, I wouldn't see that as too annoying if it was alarm-clock-able.
SilentAsTheGrave Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 125	Posted - 2015.03.22 02:45:12 - [7] - Quote And when they use this anti-cloaking device and discover the cloaker is not AFK... they will run to the forums and unleash an ocean of salty tears as they will be too afraid to undock. It will be glorious! Buddy Program: If you sign up with my buddy invite link and subscribe with valid a valid payment method - I will give you 95% of the going rate for PLEX!
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode ISD Community Communications Liaisons 4429	Posted - 2015.03.22 02:50:05 - [8] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Who cares if you could pinpoint them? As it is 9/10 people who complain about cloakers cant be arsed to undock anyways, so what does knowing the location of the possible hostile going to change? Now instead of "Go away cloaky bastard whos mother I totally had relations with last night!" being typed in local from the perfect safety of the station, it will be "Will someone please go take care of the cloaky that's somewhere within 50km of planet 3 for me because I wanna mine and he might be armed and have bad intentions!!!!!".. once again typed in local from the perfect safety of a station. Are you at fanfest or am I misreading things? Also, afk cloaking is still not an issue if they're afk. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 20665	Posted - 2015.03.22 02:59:29 - [9] - Quote ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Who cares if you could pinpoint them? As it is 9/10 people who complain about cloakers cant be arsed to undock anyways, so what does knowing the location of the possible hostile going to change? Now instead of "Go away cloaky bastard whos mother I totally had relations with last night!" being typed in local from the perfect safety of the station, it will be "Will someone please go take care of the cloaky that's somewhere within 50km of planet 3 for me because I wanna mine and he might be armed and have bad intentions!!!!!".. once again typed in local from the perfect safety of a station. Are you at fanfest or am I misreading things? Also, afk cloaking is still not an issue if they're afk. Look how bad I am on the forums. This is after me re-reading my posts to make sure im not (terribly) violating any rules, then changing wording to be (slightly) less offensive to the more 'tender' citizens of the forums. Would you really want me to be at fanfest, completely unfiltered, with a couple drinks in me?!??!? This is ME im talking about, and frankly that thought is scary when I think it. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?* Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
Madd Adda 42	Posted - 2015.03.22 03:05:04 - [10] - Quote you realize this is the concept stage and isn't a reflection of what will be released right? wouldn't make sense to have something that is suppose to be invisible to sensors magically appear. Carebear extraordinaire
Ashlar Maidstone Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 165	Posted - 2015.03.22 03:07:59 - [11] - Quote @ISD Dorrim Barstorlode, would you answer one question, if in fact this Observatory can pinpoint afk cloakers and someone pings a fleet in on top of them, do you not see that it would invalidate even the cost of the skillbook for CovertOp Cloaking? Does the fact exist that if this were true then why after all of these countless arguments about afk cloakers did this come out as a possible structure that can be set up to do who knows what? This actually wound up being two questions instead of one, ugh.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 20665	Posted - 2015.03.22 03:13:23 - [12] - Quote Ashlar Maidstone wrote: @ISD Dorrim Barstorlode, would you answer one question, if in fact this Observatory can pinpoint afk cloakers and someone pings a fleet in on top of them, do you not see that it would invalidate even the cost of the skillbook for CovertOp Cloaking? Does the fact exist that if this were true then why after all of these countless arguments about afk cloakers did this come out as a possible structure that can be set up to do who knows what? This actually wound up being two questions instead of one, ugh. Ever think that maybe they threw that line in the description to troll the playerbase? *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?* Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
Sniper Smith Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 325	Posted - 2015.03.22 03:22:00 - [13] - Quote Lets be honest here.. The people who are scared of AFK Cloakers won't be smart enough to deploy something like this in their space.. Plus from the sounds of them they are AOE, not system wide.
Milla Goodpussy Federal Navy Academy 199	Posted - 2015.03.22 03:22:45 - [14] - Quote so what do we have here? AFK cloaking campers.. whinning about the fact their griefing could be coming to an end? or Tears of the end coming from afk cloakers or just plain out fear from afk cloakers that their perfect playstyle is about to go bye-bye or even close enough of a threat to go bye-bye?? hmmmm
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 34990	Posted - 2015.03.22 03:30:49 - [15] - Quote From the same devblog: CCP Ytterbium wrote: Before we move forward, we would like to make it clear the changes listed below are ideas and highly theoretical. Those are not set in stone or fixed, we are telling our plans to you, our players, months in advance to initiate feedback and spark interest. Also please remember that concept art is just that, concept. So at this point, shrugs shoulders. Meh. We'll see. If it happens, then I think other parts of the same devblog also hint towards networks of structures being necessary to cover a wide area in a system, so I expect there will be places to AFK cloak without problem, just not at a tactical off an outpost, POS, gate, etc. But that's just total speculation, same as this thread. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode ISD Community Communications Liaisons 4454	Posted - 2015.03.22 03:49:07 - [16] - Quote Ashlar Maidstone wrote: @ISD Dorrim Barstorlode, would you answer one question, if in fact this Observatory can pinpoint afk cloakers and someone pings a fleet in on top of them, do you not see that it would invalidate even the cost of the skillbook for CovertOp Cloaking? Does the fact exist that if this were true then why after all of these countless arguments about afk cloakers did this come out as a possible structure that can be set up to do who knows what? This actually wound up being two questions instead of one, ugh. Couldn't say. Maybe it's a point you'd like to rise in the dev blog thread in the information portal. Nudge nudge. At UAE, well, yeah. It's fanfest! Half the fun is hanging out with everyone regress of where you fly! ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Ashlar Maidstone Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 165	Posted - 2015.03.22 04:26:41 - [17] - Quote ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Ashlar Maidstone wrote: @ISD Dorrim Barstorlode, would you answer one question, if in fact this Observatory can pinpoint afk cloakers and someone pings a fleet in on top of them, do you not see that it would invalidate even the cost of the skillbook for CovertOp Cloaking? Does the fact exist that if this were true then why after all of these countless arguments about afk cloakers did this come out as a possible structure that can be set up to do who knows what? This actually wound up being two questions instead of one, ugh. Couldn't say. Maybe it's a point you'd like to rise in the dev blog thread in the information portal. Nudge nudge. At UAE, well, yeah. It's fanfest! Half the fun is hanging out with everyone regress of where you fly! Thank you sir!
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10281	Posted - 2015.03.22 04:50:20 - [18] - Quote Milla Goodpussy wrote: so what do we have here? AFK cloaking campers.. whinning about the fact their griefing could be coming to an end? or Tears of the end coming from afk cloakers or just plain out fear from afk cloakers that their perfect playstyle is about to go bye-bye or even close enough of a threat to go bye-bye?? hmmmm People who know they are on shaky logical ground always fall back on the "you must be one of them" line of thinking. It demonstrates the weakness of a position. I'm not an afk cloaker. I'm someone who does anomalies, in null, for isk and fun (the fun part makes me weird, I know). And I've figured out lots of ways to deal with 'afk cloakers' as they are. RIGHT NOW Confederation of XXPizza types are afk cloaking all over Delve and Querious where I play. And yet you don't see me complaining, you see me figuring it out for my self, like an adult does when confronted with a challenge. The posters above is right, CCP shouldn't be developing in a way that compensates lazy and uncreative people for being lazy and uncreative. No, if CCP 'does something about afk cloakers' so be it, but I hope they know that some of us don't need or appreciate their attempts to hold our hands.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6472	Posted - 2015.03.22 04:53:03 - [19] - Quote I am drunk in a pub right now and trying to avoid a couple of women talking politics so thak you, thread, for being here. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1145	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:02:25 - [20] - Quote Adriana Nolen wrote: Quote: E. Observatory arrays Dedicated to intelligence gathering. ...... be able to affect or pinpoint cloak users. .... Speechless Depends on how it is implimented: If the cloaker has to log off / change systems when a SOV structure announces it is onlining that hits back at the cloakers especially if they really are AFK and about to be de-cloaked. If you can have ships that use a series of D-scans and ineffective probes to get closer and hunt down cloakers then you can actively avoid them in a "cat and mouse" game. Sitting 100% perfectly safe in conditions better than being docked is clearly broken and goes against EVE's risk vs reward principle. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Chewytowel Haklar Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 103	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:08:37 - [21] - Quote If it only works for normal cloaks and not covert ops that might make sense.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1145	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:10:55 - [22] - Quote Chewytowel Haklar wrote: If it only works for normal cloaks and not covert ops that might make sense. No. Stink bomb package posted to CCP sort of "No". CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Chewytowel Haklar Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 103	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:19:37 - [23] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Chewytowel Haklar wrote: If it only works for normal cloaks and not covert ops that might make sense. No. Stink bomb package posted to CCP sort of "No". I don't know if I am reading what you wrote wrong, or if what you said made no sense to me for other reasons.
Syn Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 154	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:22:21 - [24] - Quote Players afraid to leave the PoS because of a cloaked ship with the pilot afk; when you cant protect your own backyard.....speechless.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 20673	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:28:44 - [25] - Quote Might as well leave this here, good a time as any I guess. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?* Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
sabre906 Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing 1677	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:40:46 - [26] - Quote This is great news - now I don't have to worry about "afk camping duty" when new sov rolls around. Afk camping would have been by far the most effective way to drop system defense, softening it for capture. Roams wouldn't even come close. There would have been no excuse to not show up for "afk camping duty" since all you're doing is... nothing. Not how I want to spend my gametime. This, by itself, is more than enough justification to kill off afk cloaking completely. Nothing's worth being pulled into "afk camping duty." Nothing.
Arronicus Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx 1476	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:53:42 - [27] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Who cares if you could pinpoint them? As it is 9/10 people who complain about cloakers cant be arsed to undock anyways, so what does knowing the location of the possible hostile going to change? Now instead of "Go away cloaky bastard whos mother I totally had relations with last night!" being typed in local from the perfect safety of the station, it will be "Will someone please go take care of the cloaky that's somewhere within 50km of planet 3 for me because I wanna mine and he might be armed and have bad intentions!!!!!".. once again typed in local from the perfect safety of a station. And so the tears begin from those who aren't going to be able to harass anymore simply by sitting cloaked up. The only thing better than this change is the sporadic outbursts of tears from those upset to see it happening. Most people I know in null who complain about afk cloakers are VERY eager to be able to kill them after the change, so I have NO clue where you got your 9/10 stats from.
Arronicus Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx 1476	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:56:16 - [28] - Quote sabre906 wrote: This is great news - now I don't have to worry about "afk camping duty" when new sov rolls around. Afk camping would have been by far the most effective way to drop system defense, softening it for capture. Roams wouldn't even come close. There would have been no excuse to not show up for "afk camping duty" since all you're doing is... nothing. Not how I want to spend my gametime. This, by itself, is more than enough justification to kill off afk cloaking completely. Nothing's worth being pulled into "afk camping duty." Nothing. Prettymuch this, and the tactics involved with it. Given that the ping doesn't go out on entosis captures until after the first cycle completes, you could sit in systems, hit the module, then once people notice and show up, cloak, go afk for 2 hours, and they can either sit and wait for you after undoing your efforts, or go back to what they were doing until you do it again. This is going to provide a way to nip that in the bud.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 20675	Posted - 2015.03.22 06:10:06 - [29] - Quote Arronicus wrote: And so the tears begin from those who aren't going to be able to harass anymore simply by sitting cloaked up. The only thing better than this change is the sporadic outbursts of tears from those upset to see it happening. Most people I know in null who complain about afk cloakers are VERY eager to be able to kill them after the change, so I have NO clue where you got your 9/10 stats from. Tears? Hell, I welcome this change. It opens up a whole new level of traps and asshattery that can be accomplished. Within a day of the change or deployment of this thing, I get to find out who really wants to fight, or how to exploit the weaknesses in the system to make people even more scared. How is this not a good thing? Imagine the paranoia that ill spread when if eventhough they have the whole system spammed with these things, I can still find a place to hide and make their lives misery. Maybe I start fitting Hounds for max cloaked speeds, a point and a cyno, so by the time this thing pinpoints me, the ship is 50km away and you still cant find it, and you spend allllll day chasing a freakin ghost, and when I get home from a long day of working and being all up in your dreams, my buddies nuzzle the pig nearby while I work up on your miners and drop em while im pointing that tasty orca you for some reason brought to the anom, assured by your new fancy thingamajigger that im nowhere to be found. I welcome this change with open arms. Hell, remove local while youre at it. Id welcome that too. Tears? Sure. Tears of freakin joy. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?* Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 152	Posted - 2015.03.22 06:19:22 - [30] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Arronicus wrote: And so the tears begin from those who aren't going to be able to harass anymore simply by sitting cloaked up. The only thing better than this change is the sporadic outbursts of tears from those upset to see it happening. Most people I know in null who complain about afk cloakers are VERY eager to be able to kill them after the change, so I have NO clue where you got your 9/10 stats from. Tears? Hell, I welcome this change. It opens up a whole new level of traps and asshattery that can be accomplished. Within a day of the change or deployment of this thing, I get to find out who really wants to fight, or how to exploit the weaknesses in the system to make people even more scared. How is this not a good thing? Imagine the paranoia that ill spread when if eventhough they have the whole system spammed with these things, I can still find a place to hide and make their lives misery. Maybe I start fitting Hounds for max cloaked speeds, a point and a cyno, so by the time this thing pinpoints me, the ship is 50km away and you still cant find it, and you spend allllll day chasing a freakin ghost, and when I get home from a long day of working and being all up in your dreams, my buddies nuzzle the pig nearby while I work up on your miners and drop em while im pointing that tasty orca you for some reason brought to the anom, assured by your new fancy thingamajigger that im nowhere to be found. I welcome this change with open arms. Hell, remove local while youre at it. Id welcome that too. Tears? Sure. Tears of freakin joy. So you'd have to be at your keyboard more than once a day to stay alive and have any impact? Seems like this would be working as intended then.
Bj Queeen Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2015.03.22 06:40:18 - [31] - Quote its getting pretty close to April guys.
Ioci Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums 558	Posted - 2015.03.22 07:21:18 - [32] - Quote Madd Adda wrote: you realize this is the concept stage and isn't a reflection of what will be released right? wouldn't make sense to have something that is suppose to be invisible to sensors magically appear. I wouldn't use that logic in this game, or any form of logic really. It works two ways in saying that as well. The new intelligence array won't be an I-Win button any more than AFK cloaking is. R.I.P. Vile Rat
Cancel Align NOW Greater Order Of Destruction The Good Christian Society 484	Posted - 2015.03.22 08:32:22 - [33] - Quote I think this idea goes hand in hand with the removal of local
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 70	Posted - 2015.03.22 08:51:31 - [34] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: I think this idea goes hand in hand with the removal of local Can't wait for local removal. ßòª( -í° -£-û -í°)ßòñ Hi, I'm Blob and I like to Blog.
Adriana Nolen Sama Guild 58	Posted - 2015.03.22 08:53:06 - [35] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: I think this idea goes hand in hand with the removal of local Can't wait for local removal. A good trade off for this would be removing local in systems that use it.
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 2276	Posted - 2015.03.22 09:06:54 - [36] - Quote Adriana Nolen wrote: Dradis Aulmais wrote: Pft could grow balls so CCP gave out some. Afk cloaking has never been a problem for us. Yeah, if truly afk, no big deal. This array seems to be worded to affect non-afk cloakers. I support this change even though I relied on AFK'ing in game to get kills. It was overpowered because it could be exploited using the "if truly afk, no big deal". I'd play a few hours a day, the rest I'd sit in someones system truly afk but because my status could never be determined they either had to be on guard, pvp fitted for 24/7 or they had to undock and do their isk making. Every day or so at a random interval I'd do a quick scout and kill one. I managed to kill 22 ships that way without dying in an alliance hub filled with people. I would have supported leaving afk cloakers alone and adding a dimming of the character icon in local after a period of inactivity but no big deal. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Josef Djugashvilis 2921	Posted - 2015.03.22 09:19:36 - [37] - Quote AFK cloaking should be nerfed just as soon as someone can show how an afk cloaker can hurt anyone. This is not a signature.
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 2276	Posted - 2015.03.22 09:24:23 - [38] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: AFK cloaking should be nerfed just as soon as someone can show how an afk cloaker can hurt anyone. Pretending you don't understand the problem doesn't make the problem go away. Its like saying hibernating bears are not dangerous because they're hibernating. ****** point of view to take isn't it. CCP Fozzie** GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Pok Nibin Filial Pariahs 633	Posted - 2015.03.22 09:36:40 - [39] - Quote If I read "afk cloaking" one more time I'm going to all of your houses and stuffing a potato in your exhaust pipes. This is like, "I saw a spider in my bathroom last week and I'll never be able to shower again for the rest of my life." (That's why people who never play tennis keep a tennis racket in the closet - spider control ... well, yeah, to drain spaghetti as well, but I digress.) It's not the afk cloaker I worry about. It's the one not afk...like ME! The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Diemos Hiaraki Perkone Caldari State 20	Posted - 2015.03.22 10:09:34 - [40] - Quote Not a problem either way. The entosis thingy will probs turn it off
Arthur Aihaken Narada 4178	Posted - 2015.03.22 10:28:05 - [41] - Quote Pok Nibin wrote: If I read "afk cloaking" one more time I'm going to all of your houses and stuffing a potato in your exhaust pipes. Cloaking afk. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
cpu939 Eternal Darkness. Get Off My Lawn 87	Posted - 2015.03.22 10:33:03 - [42] - Quote As some have said above this is a good thing it will force a change of game play. I've said it before when you are in space you shouldn't be 100% safe. pos - you can be bounced out safe spot - you can be probed out cloaked - unless your stupid and sitting at a warp in point, your not getting decloaked now with this you can't have a safe for hours on end while you are afk from game unless docked. my hope is that it will take time to find cloaked people say a minimum of 3 hour
Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 223	Posted - 2015.03.22 10:42:41 - [43] - Quote During the Sat morning event, Yitterbum made it sound like you could manually "pulse" the module like once an hour and it would decloak everything in system. he made it seem liek manual so you couldn't time it or anything. Then you had to probe stuff down manually If the cloaker is truly afk, easy kill, if they are not afk, they can cloak back up after the 30 sec timer
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 8049	Posted - 2015.03.22 14:10:13 - [44] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Might as well leave this here, good a time as any I guess. o/ jhe3elooloo.; Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Serene Repose 2451	Posted - 2015.03.22 14:46:31 - [45] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Might as well leave this here, good a time as any I guess. o/ jhe3elooloo.; Mr Epeen I'd log onto his blog but I'm not registering with Google as long as they're cozy with aliens. What I'd like to know is who taught that gorilla how to flip somebody off? Purely rhetorical. It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt.
Vyl Vit 1131	Posted - 2015.03.22 14:48:41 - [46] - Quote If all this is true, then Aura should come on and say, "You are now naked, and so am I." Then, she should giggle a girlish giggle. Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Hal Morsh Fruidian Logic Dramatic Exit. 272	Posted - 2015.03.22 15:20:23 - [47] - Quote If null instant local is removed, and system wide D-scan inhibitors are made available where you have to probe everything you can't see on grid (or isn't a celestial on overview) then cloaky pricks aren't going to be much of a problem. Unless you don't use a d-scan inhibitor, then ping away and kill the prick. I bet people will quickly find out with cloaky pings that all those afk cloakers are not afk after all. This big game of Schrodinger's cat will probably come to an end. ISD Dorrim > Hey, a fedo! Thread closed.
Pok Nibin Filial Pariahs 636	Posted - 2015.03.22 15:24:25 - [48] - Quote It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury; signifying nothing. -Willie the Shake- The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1147	Posted - 2015.03.22 16:46:03 - [49] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: I think this idea goes hand in hand with the removal of local Can't wait for local removal. This is the most inane idea that people have latched onto for years. They remove local from Null Sec and I would just go to a Worm Hole You get more ISK and they can't hot drop you there. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Baali Tekitsu AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 709	Posted - 2015.03.22 17:58:58 - [50] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: I think this idea goes hand in hand with the removal of local Can't wait for local removal. This is the most inane idea that people have latched onto for years. They remove local from Null Sec and I would just go to a Worm Hole You get more ISK and they can't hot drop you there. Thats what you think RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10290	Posted - 2015.03.22 18:30:35 - [51] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Arronicus wrote: And so the tears begin from those who aren't going to be able to harass anymore simply by sitting cloaked up. The only thing better than this change is the sporadic outbursts of tears from those upset to see it happening. Most people I know in null who complain about afk cloakers are VERY eager to be able to kill them after the change, so I have NO clue where you got your 9/10 stats from. Tears? Hell, I welcome this change. It opens up a whole new level of traps and asshattery that can be accomplished. Within a day of the change or deployment of this thing, I get to find out who really wants to fight, or how to exploit the weaknesses in the system to make people even more scared. How is this not a good thing? Imagine the paranoia that ill spread when if eventhough they have the whole system spammed with these things, I can still find a place to hide and make their lives misery. Maybe I start fitting Hounds for max cloaked speeds, a point and a cyno, so by the time this thing pinpoints me, the ship is 50km away and you still cant find it, and you spend allllll day chasing a freakin ghost, and when I get home from a long day of working and being all up in your dreams, my buddies nuzzle the pig nearby while I work up on your miners and drop em while im pointing that tasty orca you for some reason brought to the anom, assured by your new fancy thingamajigger that im nowhere to be found. I welcome this change with open arms. Hell, remove local while youre at it. Id welcome that too. Tears? Sure. Tears of freakin joy. People like Arronicus have to believe that people who hold a view point must do so for selfish reasons, because if they didn't it would mean that they might be on to something and that would challenge their worldview. I get it all the time as a null sec anom farmer who isn't afraid of afk cloakers and also as a high sec mission runner who thinks all the people complaining about gankers are weak minded ninnys. RIGHT NOW Confederation of XXPizza is camping my Delve playground, screw em, they ain't gonna catch me and I'm still going to make isk. Afk cloakers and gankers are just CONTENT with which those of us with actual space-balls can prove our game playing superiority, many of us actually LIKE having to outthink people in order to fill our wallets with filthy isk. The constant whining and begging CCP to nerf them (whether afk-cloakers or gankers) actually ends up nerfing US (the Indiana Jones in Space style PVEr) while doing nothing to the gankers and cloakers because they will just find another way to screw with people. These anti- types can take their short sighted protectionism thinking and shove it up the nearest black hole.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 287	Posted - 2015.03.22 18:44:45 - [52] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: "Will someone please go take care of the cloaky that's somewhere within 50km of planet 3 for me because I wanna mine and he might be armed and have bad intentions!!!!!".. once again typed in local from the perfect safety of a station. Blowing up the station will solve this problem once and for all.
Lucien Visteen Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 146	Posted - 2015.03.22 18:45:21 - [53] - Quote Adriana Nolen wrote: Quote: E. Observatory arrays Dedicated to intelligence gathering. ...... be able to affect or pinpoint cloak users. .... Speechless Hey! Heeeyyy! OP, hold on a second! Phew, I'm out of shape. Here. You dropped this. Magic Crystal Ball You really should pay more attention, these items are very dangerous to untrained users. I think I managed to get to it before anyeone else did. You're welcome, take care! The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Cancel Align NOW Greater Order Of Destruction The Good Christian Society 485	Posted - 2015.03.22 19:33:28 - [54] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: I think this idea goes hand in hand with the removal of local Can't wait for local removal. This is the most inane idea that people have latched onto for years. They remove local from Null Sec and I would just go to a Worm Hole You get more ISK and they can't hot drop you there. Who has latched on to that idea?
Nariya Kentaya Ministry of War Amarr Empire 1860	Posted - 2015.03.22 19:47:14 - [55] - Quote Adriana Nolen wrote: Quote: E. Observatory arrays Dedicated to intelligence gathering. ...... be able to affect or pinpoint cloak users. .... Speechless not really surprising, the concensus was, when you lose your local, well give you the ability to hunt those of us who are AFK theyre nuking local, so you get the pinpointer its called balance
Elenahina agony unleashed Agony Empire 262	Posted - 2015.03.22 20:33:09 - [56] - Quote Just saw UaE posting in here and thought I'd say jhe3elooloo.;! Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
Probebly Afk Cloaking C0DE.. Shadow Politics 13	Posted - 2015.03.22 20:47:32 - [57] - Quote really no yeah for sure really ok
Miomeifeng Alduin Lithonauts Inc. 76	Posted - 2015.03.22 20:47:34 - [58] - Quote So, unless it decloaks cloakers, you just go to your safe, be cloaked, set velocity to max and just constantly move. sure they can come on grid with you, but good luck finding them. tldr: solves nothing :p
Nana Skalski Republic University Minmatar Republic 45	Posted - 2015.03.22 21:09:38 - [59] - Quote How will they exclude people that cloak actively, not afk?
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5226	Posted - 2015.03.22 21:18:38 - [60] - Quote Pok Nibin wrote: If I read "afk cloaking" one more time I'm going to all of your houses and stuffing a potato in your exhaust pipes. This is like, "I saw a spider in my bathroom last week and I'll never be able to shower again for the rest of my life." (That's why people who never play tennis keep a tennis racket in the closet - spider control ... well, yeah, to drain spaghetti as well, but I digress.) It's not the afk cloaker I worry about. It's the one not afk...like ME! It's not quite the same, it's more like you got into your shower once and got skewered in the chest by a spike from the wall. Now when you shower you can tell that the spike is there, but have no idea if its going to pop out or not. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5226	Posted - 2015.03.23 00:16:22 - [61] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: I think this idea goes hand in hand with the removal of local Can't wait for local removal. This is the most inane idea that people have latched onto for years. They remove local from Null Sec and I would just go to a Worm Hole You get more ISK and they can't hot drop you there. This I feel is the biggest problem with this idea. Not just wormhole space, but the more risk averse (which is most) will simply move into highsec for isk generation even more. I think long term it would just lead to PvPers whining that nullsec is too empty (even moreso than they already do) because there's no ratters to prey on. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
d0cTeR9 Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance 98	Posted - 2015.03.23 00:23:23 - [62] - Quote Look at ALL the tears buahahahahaha #bancloaking #jokesonyou Am I doing it right? Funny like half the whinners here are the same people laughing at carrier/supercarrier pilots that voiced concerns about all the nerfs, but how dare they away my OP cloak now!
Arronicus Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx 1478	Posted - 2015.03.23 00:25:24 - [63] - Quote Kenneth Feld wrote: During the Sat morning event, Yitterbum made it sound like you could manually "pulse" the module like once an hour and it would decloak everything in system. he made it seem liek manual so you couldn't time it or anything. Then you had to probe stuff down manually If the cloaker is truly afk, easy kill, if they are not afk, they can cloak back up after the 30 sec timer This is specifically why the potential change is great. It makes afk cloakers vulnerable, and active ones are just fine. The whole nonsense people are saying about how it should happen at the same period every hour or 3 hours or whatever is just silly, as it would allow the afk a simple easy method of dodging the effect.
Niobe Song Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 55	Posted - 2015.03.23 03:48:27 - [64] - Quote They should remove local from null sec the same patch they release the thingamabob that detects cloaked ships.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6475	Posted - 2015.03.23 04:14:27 - [65] - Quote Anything that prevents someone from being TRULY AFK while cloaking is a good thing. After all, there is an entire horde of people who have taken it on themselves to gank anybody hauling AFK with AP. Therefore on that same line, why do people think they have the right to be totally safe while AFK? It's about time a balancing mechanic was introduced. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 95	Posted - 2015.03.23 06:19:13 - [66] - Quote [Serious] ELI5: What's "AFK cloaking" and why is it a problem? Just Add Water
Saisin State War Academy Caldari State 216	Posted - 2015.03.23 06:30:59 - [67] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Anything that prevents someone from being TRULY AFK while cloaking is a good thing. After all, there is an entire horde of people who have taken it on themselves to gank anybody hauling AFK with AP. Therefore on that same line, why do people think they have the right to be totally safe while AFK? It's about time a balancing mechanic was introduced. Could not have worded it better..... "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo. solo? There is a new hope...
Josef Djugashvilis 2924	Posted - 2015.03.23 09:25:37 - [68] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: AFK cloaking should be nerfed just as soon as someone can show how an afk cloaker can hurt anyone. Pretending you don't understand the problem doesn't make the problem go away. Its like saying hibernating bears are not dangerous because they're hibernating. ******** point of view to take isn't it. The title of the thread is to do with afk cloaking. My argument stands. Pretending that an afk cloaker is a problem is nonsense. afk cannot harm anyone. Player is at the keyboard in a cloaked ship, valid style of gameplay. This is not a signature.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12244	Posted - 2015.03.23 09:30:49 - [69] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: AFK cloaking should be nerfed just as soon as someone can show how an afk cloaker can hurt anyone. Pretending you don't understand the problem doesn't make the problem go away. Its like saying hibernating bears are not dangerous because they're hibernating. ******** point of view to take isn't it. The title of the thread is to do with afk cloaking. My argument stands. Pretending that an afk cloaker is a problem is nonsense. afk cannot harm anyone. Player is at the keyboard in a cloaked ship, valid style of gameplay. Never before have I agreed with you, and I doubt I ever shall again, but you are correct on this one. That said, I think the premature celebraculation in this thread is going to be let down pretty hard once the devblog for this actually releases. They're counting their chickens before they even have any eggs, and that never ends well. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Pak Narhoo Splinter Foundation 1602	Posted - 2015.03.23 09:40:11 - [70] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: [Serious] ELI5: What's "AFK cloaking" and why is it a problem? Serious? AFK: away from keyboard. AFK Cloaking: sitting in a system cloaked while being away from keyboard. A serious problem for risk adverse nul sec care bears who are afraid that the person who is not actively there may shoot them (oh noes! Someone cloaked in my system, I'm too scared to undock).
Liafcipe9000 Critically Preposterous 33989	Posted - 2015.03.23 11:27:36 - [71] - Quote observatories can't see what's invisible can your eyes see microscopic germs? don't be silly Founder of the Graycember movement and LAGL's pet cat. Critically Preposterous is recruiting! please send evemail if interested.
Amber Kurvora 217	Posted - 2015.03.23 11:38:04 - [72] - Quote I really want to know more about the mechanics they intend to use for this. I occasionally week trip into Null to run exploration sites, which carries enough risk with Null Alliance intel channels, and would hate to find out that cloaking up to ride out gank attempts would suddenly not be an option.
Demica Diaz SE-1 142	Posted - 2015.03.23 11:45:45 - [73] - Quote Has anyone actually lost something to AFK cloakers?
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12247	Posted - 2015.03.23 12:20:59 - [74] - Quote Demica Diaz wrote: Has anyone actually lost something to AFK cloakers? Their self respect? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 251	Posted - 2015.03.23 12:21:33 - [75] - Quote Amber Kurvora wrote: I really want to know more about the mechanics they intend to use for this. I occasionally week trip into Null to run exploration sites, which carries enough risk with Null Alliance intel channels, and would hate to find out that cloaking up to ride out gank attempts would suddenly not be an option. it means you would just have to keep moving, meaning you couldnt just sit in the same place for for 4 hours watching things EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10339	Posted - 2015.03.23 12:22:21 - [76] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demica Diaz wrote: Has anyone actually lost something to AFK cloakers? Their self respect? Negative, you can't lose what you don't' have
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 79	Posted - 2015.03.23 12:31:52 - [77] - Quote Omg the person who wasn't there two hours ago is still not there right now! ßòª( -í° -£-û -í°)ßòñ Hi, I'm Blob and I like to Blog.
Elenahina agony unleashed Agony Empire 272	Posted - 2015.03.23 12:34:12 - [78] - Quote Long live Schr+¦dinger's Hotdropper Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
Josef Djugashvilis 2925	Posted - 2015.03.23 13:44:05 - [79] - Quote Demica Diaz wrote: Has anyone actually lost something to AFK cloakers? Balls. This is not a signature.
DeadDuck The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance 139	Posted - 2015.03.23 13:52:35 - [80] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Player is at the keyboard in a cloaked ship, valid style of gameplay. It is, so the detection array should not be a problem to him either, since he can pretty much react to an incoming threat.
Kestrix Industrial Renaissance 176	Posted - 2015.03.23 14:19:12 - [81] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: CCP shouldn't be developing in a way that compensates lazy and uncreative people for being lazy and uncreative. Thank you jenn aSide for supporting this new feature against afk cloakers
BoBoZoBo Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team 549	Posted - 2015.03.23 14:20:21 - [82] - Quote You guys still do not realize... it is the active ones you need to worry about. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 251	Posted - 2015.03.23 14:27:46 - [83] - Quote BoBoZoBo wrote: You guys still do not realize... it is the active ones you need to worry about. its to determine who is afk and who is not i guess, afk cloakers should be able to be killed just like they can kill at anytime they return, if they go afk they should return to a pod in home station EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10348	Posted - 2015.03.23 14:31:41 - [84] - Quote Kestrix wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: CCP shouldn't be developing in a way that compensates lazy and uncreative people for being lazy and uncreative. Thank you jenn aSide for supporting this new feature against afk cloakers I don't have a problem with it as described. here's what will happen. CCP will put in a structure that decloaks people every once in a while and 'cloakers' will still find some way to afk cloak (coupled with the fact that the majority of null pve farmers won't respond to a decloaked player anyways, even if they could, no matter what they say) and the whining will continue. I t will continue in the exact same way that miners continued to complain after the mining ship EHP buffs. They will continue to complain in the exact same way people complain about bumping even though CCP introduced ANCHOR RIGS. While the complainers will never realize it, the rest of us do actually realize what the problem is. It's not that afk cloakers are safe, it's the fact that someone exists (at the keyboard or not) who can disrupt their acquisition of space money. So they make up all these fake reasons why afk cloaking is bad (if for nothing else than to lie to themselves) and fool themselves into believing it (like the miners did). When the afk cloakers adapt (like, for instance, forgetting about the cloak and just putting a really really fast afk ceptor or T3 destroyer in the system, uncloaked but impossible to catch without a specialized link set up counter ceptor which no one will have available, the whining will restart and the people doing the whining will make up new reasons why 'afk ceptors' are too safe and how MWDs should shut off automatically after 10 minutes if there is no keyboard input... Me? I'll be ratting my arse parts off and if someone does cloaky camp in the old way i'll pulse that structure (if it works that way), kill the fool, and stuff more isk into the EVE economy than I'm doing right now ... despite Confderation of XXPizza's best efforts.
Malcaz Caldari Provisions Caldari State 19	Posted - 2015.03.23 15:11:18 - [85] - Quote If they make null local like WH local, you can still easily afk cloak... just say something and they'll know you are there, or just gank people randomly. In fact that'll be even worse because they have no idea of whether you left the system. AFK cloakers can terrorize even better.
Organic Lager Organic Lager Corporation 76	Posted - 2015.03.23 15:29:54 - [86] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Kestrix wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: CCP shouldn't be developing in a way that compensates lazy and uncreative people for being lazy and uncreative. Thank you jenn aSide for supporting this new feature against afk cloakers I don't have a problem with it as described. here's what will happen. CCP will put in a structure that decloaks people every once in a while and 'cloakers' will still find some way to afk cloak (coupled with the fact that the majority of null pve farmers won't respond to a decloaked player anyways, even if they could, no matter what they say) and the whining will continue. I t will continue in the exact same way that miners continued to complain after the mining ship EHP buffs. They will continue to complain in the exact same way people complain about bumping even though CCP introduced ANCHOR RIGS. While the complainers will never realize it, the rest of us do actually realize what the problem is. It's not that afk cloakers are safe, it's the fact that someone exists (at the keyboard or not) who can disrupt their acquisition of space money. So they make up all these fake reasons why afk cloaking is bad (if for nothing else than to lie to themselves) and fool themselves into believing it (like the miners did). When the afk cloakers adapt (like, for instance, forgetting about the cloak and just putting a really really fast afk ceptor or T3 destroyer in the system, uncloaked but impossible to catch without a specialized link set up counter ceptor which no one will have available, the whining will restart and the people doing the whining will make up new reasons why 'afk ceptors' are too safe and how MWDs should shut off automatically after 10 minutes if there is no keyboard input... Me? I'll be ratting my arse parts off and if someone does cloaky camp in the old way i'll pulse that structure (if it works that way), kill the fool, and stuff more isk into the EVE economy than I'm doing right now ... despite Confderation of XXPizza's best efforts. Your defence is yeah it's a bad mechanic but why bother changing it? Grrrrrrr change. When a loop hole is found we should actively seek to change it to close the loop hole, bonus points if we can do it with out opening another one. Afk cloakers are not content, when they are declocked they will become content. If they aren't afk and are creating content then this wont affect them at all. I would love to see more of these structures introduced to the game, why not allow us to build and defend our space better? more things to build, more things to defend and more things to blow up.
Kestrix Industrial Renaissance 176	Posted - 2015.03.23 15:32:10 - [87] - Quote I continued mining in Null despite having an AFK cloaker in system, what I found annoying was knowing that, that person could remain cloaked and afk as long as they wanted without risk to themselves whilst still posing a potential risk in system to people like myself in none combat ships. Having a cloakey vessel in a system providing intel, warp to points and so on is fine and any mechanic introduced by CCP to help us find them can be easily countered by an active pilot by moving and re-cloaking. So this does not stop the role of this type of ship/game play. It does however punish lazy and risk adverse players who really do just leave AFK cloakers in systems unattended and this is good. In recent times there has been a big push in hi-sec to punish miners for being AFK amongst other things and I think punishing the same type of game play in Null is a step in the right direction.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10351	Posted - 2015.03.23 15:50:40 - [88] - Quote Organic Lager wrote: Your defence is yeah it's a bad mechanic but why bother changing it? Grrrrrrr change. When a loop hole is found we should actively seek to change it to close the loop hole, bonus points if we can do it with out opening another one. I don't have a 'defense' I'm telling it like it is. And it isn't a loop hole, the game was developed that way. Quote: Afk cloakers are not content, when they are declocked they will become content. If they aren't afk and are creating content then this wont affect them at all. Incorrect, afk cloakers cause adjustments (in my case, ratting with warp core stabbed FoF missile/sentry drones Rattlesnakes or other ships instead of my "empty system" set ups like my Machariel. They aren't content to weak people who run and dock up from them., but then, nothing is. Quote: I would love to see more of these structures introduced to the game, why not allow us to build and defend our space better? more things to build, more things to defend and more things to blow up. Because the defender has all the advantages now. This might change in the new system but I doubt it. A system that has too much defense results in immovable , entrenched groups and funny colored donuts. We'll see how it all turns out, but going back to the original issue, the 'problem' isn't afk cloakers, it's risk averse null sec pve farmers, because those of us who farm in null and know how to deal with risk were never affected by cloakers, afk or otherwise.
Saisin State War Academy Caldari State 217	Posted - 2015.03.23 15:50:59 - [89] - Quote BoBoZoBo wrote: You guys still do not realize... it is the active ones you need to worry about. The only problem with this pseudo-theory is that nobody has any way to tell when a player that is AFK comes back to the keyboard and becomes again a real threat. Those using that line are disingenuous at best, and likely to shed many tears publicly once/if this de-cloaking pulse brings back the advantage to the currently active pilot, rather than to the mostly AFK pilot. "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo. solo? There is a new hope...
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1568	Posted - 2015.03.23 15:52:10 - [90] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: AFK cloaking should be nerfed just as soon as someone can show how an afk cloaker can hurt anyone. Pretending you don't understand the problem doesn't make the problem go away. Its like saying hibernating bears are not dangerous because they're hibernating. ******** point of view to take isn't it. The title of the thread is to do with afk cloaking. My argument stands. Pretending that an afk cloaker is a problem is nonsense. afk cannot harm anyone. Player is at the keyboard in a cloaked ship, valid style of gameplay. Weapons do not do any harm you know? It's people who use weapons to harm other people. So why not sell weapons to everyone in any supermarket? Your logic The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Pak Narhoo Splinter Foundation 1603	Posted - 2015.03.23 15:55:06 - [91] - Quote DeadDuck wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Player is at the keyboard in a cloaked ship, valid style of gameplay. It is, so the detection array should not be a problem to him either, since he can pretty much react to an incoming threat. Yeah, nooooo. I know many cases where Im not afk cloaked but am cloaked and quite vulnerable if someone turns on that are device. 30 seconds in EVE is a loooong time to be able to get recloaked and no matter what they know now where I am. There is also no incoming message saying: 'warning anti cloak device is about to be turned on'. One moment you are cloaked the next not. Defeats the purpose of being cloaked at all. To be honest I don't mind pinging the AFK cloaker, even though it means that CCP once again bend over to the whiners. In this case those afraid of someone who isn't there, but for the rest I feel it takes away all that is about cloaked gameplay. If this gets in as some hope it will I say goodby to my low sec/ nul sec PI/ exploration for example. F-ck it.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10351	Posted - 2015.03.23 15:57:12 - [92] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: AFK cloaking should be nerfed just as soon as someone can show how an afk cloaker can hurt anyone. Pretending you don't understand the problem doesn't make the problem go away. Its like saying hibernating bears are not dangerous because they're hibernating. ******** point of view to take isn't it. The title of the thread is to do with afk cloaking. My argument stands. Pretending that an afk cloaker is a problem is nonsense. afk cannot harm anyone. Player is at the keyboard in a cloaked ship, valid style of gameplay. Weapons do not do any harm you know? It's people who use weapons to harm other people. So why not sell weapons to everyone in any supermarket? Your logic We do in Texas (at least at Wal-mart). What's your point?
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1568	Posted - 2015.03.23 15:58:01 - [93] - Quote Pak Narhoo wrote: If this gets in as some hope it will I say goodby to my low sec/ nul sec PI/ exploration for example. F-ck it. According to some people you cannot do exploration cloaked: you cannot hack, loot, whatever. No loss for you anyway. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Pak Narhoo Splinter Foundation 1603	Posted - 2015.03.23 16:05:38 - [94] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Pak Narhoo wrote: If this gets in as some hope it will I say goodby to my low sec/ nul sec PI/ exploration for example. F-ck it. According to some people you cannot do exploration cloaked: you cannot hack, loot, whatever. No loss for you anyway. Getting there, observing, moving away when D-scan tells you someone is getting closer, come on you know better then that.
Seven Koskanaiken Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 1446	Posted - 2015.03.23 16:38:09 - [95] - Quote New meta: AFK speeding.
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2240	Posted - 2015.03.23 16:44:58 - [96] - Quote Seven Koskanaiken wrote: New meta: AFK speeding. If your overheat it, you wont be AFK speeding for terribly long.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6483	Posted - 2015.03.23 16:46:29 - [97] - Quote Kestrix wrote: I continued mining in Null despite having an AFK cloaker in system, what I found annoying was knowing that, that person could remain cloaked and afk as long as they wanted without risk to themselves whilst still posing a potential risk in system to people like myself in none combat ships. Having a cloakey vessel in a system providing intel, warp to points and so on is fine and any mechanic introduced by CCP to help us find them can be easily countered by an active pilot by moving and re-cloaking. So this does not stop the role of this type of ship/game play. It does however punish lazy and risk adverse players who really do just leave AFK cloakers in systems unattended and this is good. In recent times there has been a big push in hi-sec to punish miners for being AFK amongst other things and I think punishing the same type of game play in Null is a step in the right direction. Sauce for the goose... Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10352	Posted - 2015.03.23 16:47:49 - [98] - Quote Kiandoshia wrote: Seven Koskanaiken wrote: New meta: AFK speeding. If your overheat it, you wont be AFK speeding for terribly long. What you you need to overheat an almost 9km/s Svipul lol? [Svipul, AFK again] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cynosural Field Generator I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Small Auxiliary Thrusters II Small Auxiliary Thrusters II Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5229	Posted - 2015.03.23 16:57:02 - [99] - Quote Pak Narhoo wrote: I know many cases where Im not afk cloaked but am cloaked and quite vulnerable if someone turns on that are device. 30 seconds in EVE is a loooong time to be able to get recloaked and no matter what they know now where I am. There is also no incoming message saying: 'warning anti cloak device is about to be turned on'. One moment you are cloaked the next not. Defeats the purpose of being cloaked at all. Since they haven't even announced what the change would be, there's no reason to assume you wouldn't be able to see it incoming or react to it. Chances are it would be trivial for an active cloaker to avoid being blown up, and so cloakers would continue to exist. Pak Narhoo wrote: [To be honest I don't mind pinging the AFK cloaker, even though it means that CCP once again bend over to the whiners. In this case those afraid of someone who isn't there, but for the rest I feel it takes away all that is about cloaked gameplay. If this gets in as some hope it will I say goodby to my low sec/ nul sec PI/ exploration for example. F-ck it. I find it amusign that you talk about CCP bending over to the whiners, yet are stating you would dump an entire playsytle if they made it so cloakers could be pinged once in a while. You want to retain the ability to have 0 risk of being detected for indefinite periods of time without even having to be in the same building as your PC, yet it's everyone else that is the whiner? The way I see it, this is long overdue. AFK cloaking is an anti-gameplay pattern. It's a player not playing specifically to cause other player not to play too. If they can get rid of that and safely preserve the ability for people who use cloaks actively to continue to do so, I'm all for it. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Commander Spurty Dimension Door We need wards. 1439	Posted - 2015.03.23 16:59:50 - [100] - Quote I love this idea :P I also love the idea that a cloaked ship can't see anything. Any ship using the D-Scan should decloak for a long time. Perhaps even a force weapons timer. Make gathering intel be a strategic operation, not a passive one. There are good ships And wood ships And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5229	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:00:11 - [101] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Kiandoshia wrote: Seven Koskanaiken wrote: New meta: AFK speeding. If your overheat it, you wont be AFK speeding for terribly long. What you you need to overheat an almost 9km/s Svipul lol? [Svipul, AFK again] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cynosural Field Generator I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Small Auxiliary Thrusters II Small Auxiliary Thrusters II Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I While yes, something like this could be used to be AFK in a system, you're missing out on a key point, which is that a ship that isn't cloaked can be actively observed. While few ships would be able to catch it, it would be viable for someone to monitor it for changes to determine if it was turning from a passive threat to an active threat, something which can't be done with AFK cloakers currently. A fast ship flying along without being caught is no different from a docked player. He can be watched and if he changes from his current state be considered a threat and reacted to. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10354	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:12:13 - [102] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: The way I see it, this is long overdue. AFK cloaking is an anti-gameplay pattern. It's a player not playing specifically to cause other player not to play too. If they can get rid of that and safely preserve the ability for people who use cloaks actively to continue to do so, I'm all for it. This is where unintended consequences happen. AFK cloakers do serve a purpose, they do put a damper on the liquid isk generation in null. Without them sometimes scarring off the fair weather ratters, their would be even more isk in circulation that it is even null, because null is the primary liquid isk faucet in the game (because CCP decided to make anomalies the center of the Domino Sov upgrade system, anoms were never designed for that).. Eventually, if CCP does away with afk cloaking, people will try to cloak ratting systems less (because every once in a while they will have to pay attention to that cloaker ship. That means that people LIKE ME are gonna absolutely STUFF isk into this economy. At least with afk cloakers sometimes people are forced to log in high sec or fw alts to make money and those ways invovle an isk sink (LP). This is, of course, of CCP keep anoms as the center of null sec grunt isk making. The Structure dev blog says this" Quote: G. Administration Hubs Structures affecting solar system control and ownership as a whole. Service module possibilities: territorial Sovereignty flag, modifiers to change the security status of a solar system, to change NPC agents spread in the solar system, to switch NPC faction control or NPC security forces. I know there is a good chance they are talking about null right there, but sov null agents of some kind would fix a number of problems right then and there, even afk cloaking' because even if they have warpable beacons like FW missions, it's not the same as 'open sites' like anoms and belts. Who knows.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10355	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:18:47 - [103] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Kiandoshia wrote: Seven Koskanaiken wrote: New meta: AFK speeding. If your overheat it, you wont be AFK speeding for terribly long. What you you need to overheat an almost 9km/s Svipul lol? [Svipul, AFK again] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cynosural Field Generator I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Small Auxiliary Thrusters II Small Auxiliary Thrusters II Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I While yes, something like this could be used to be AFK in a system, you're missing out on a key point, which is that a ship that isn't cloaked can be actively observed. While few ships would be able to catch it, it would be viable for someone to monitor it for changes to determine if it was turning from a passive threat to an active threat, something which can't be done with AFK cloakers currently. A fast ship flying along without being caught is no different from a docked player. He can be watched and if he changes from his current state be considered a threat and reacted to. To the average null farmer (and belive me, I know my brethren), none of the above will make a difference. If they can't be bothered to do anything but dock up/pos up right now with all the tools the game puts at their disposal, why do you think they will develop counter measures (like learning how to use d-scan to see someone warping in on them and being ready to fight or warp off) to non-afk campers? AFK cloakers don't exist because of game mechanics, they exist for the same reasons high sec gankers do: because their 'prey' (most null sec rock and anom farmers) exists and are already mentally prone to act like prey no matter what they do. That's why I and PVErs like me don't get prey'd upon in high OR null, because we don't react like prey. This is why some in high sec are still complaining after buffs and additions done by CCP (buffed ships, low slots on ships that didn't have them, ANCHOR RIGS etc), and why the constant call from anti-afk cloak types to "give me some kind of ay to fight back" is actually just wishful/prideful thinking.
Seven Koskanaiken Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 1448	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:21:36 - [104] - Quote [20:41:52] Grunt1 > guys beacon decloaked the camper [20:49:22] Grunt2 > what's he in [21:12:34] Grunt3 > FC online? [21:19:89] Grunt2 > what are you in [22:58:19] Grunt2 > what's he in??? [23:02:49] Grunt2 > what are u in?????? [01:59:59] Grunt1 > nvm he cloaked up again
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10355	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:22:15 - [105] - Quote Seven Koskanaiken wrote: [20:41:52] Grunt1 > guys beacon decloaked the camper [20:49:22] Grunt2 > what's he in [21:12:34] Grunt3 > FC online? [21:19:89] Grunt2 > what are you in [22:58:19] Grunt2 > what's he in??? [23:02:49] Grunt2 > what are u in?????? [01:59:59] Grunt1 > nvm he cloaked up again lol , Exactly
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5229	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:40:25 - [106] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: This is where unintended consequences happen. AFK cloakers do serve a purpose, they do put a damper on the liquid isk generation in null. Without them sometimes scarring off the fair weather ratters, their would be even more isk in circulation that it is even null, because null is the primary liquid isk faucet in the game (because CCP decided to make anomalies the center of the Domino Sov upgrade system, anoms were never designed for that).. No, AFK cloakers allow people who aren't playing the game to have an effect. Removing that ability has very intended consequences. The intention is clearly across the board to make actual activity, not passive activity the driver in null, hence the entire sov revamp too. Jenn aSide wrote: Eventually, if CCP does away with afk cloaking, people will try to cloak ratting systems less (because every once in a while they will have to pay attention to that cloaker ship. That means that people LIKE ME are gonna absolutely STUFF isk into this economy. People already stuff isk into the economy. I think the number of players affected directly by afk cloakers is relatively minimal, and the effect of their removal on the economy will be much the same. People on both sides will oversell it as having some profound effect, but realistically it's the removal of a zero risk passive activity which added the appearance of risk to a limited number of systems. I'm all for making sure that when you are logged in and undocked you have to play the game to have an effect. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
d0cTeR9 Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance 98	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:45:03 - [107] - Quote #banAFKcloaking CCP needs to provide more buckets for all the tears geez Next up, #banOffGridBoosting !
Kamahl Daikun Back To Basics. 56	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:46:16 - [108] - Quote SilentAsTheGrave wrote: And when they use this anti-cloaking device and discover the cloaker is not AFK... they will run to the forums and unleash an ocean of salty tears as they will be too afraid to undock. It will be glorious! The problem with your scenario is that the people who complain about afk cloakers don't undock anyways.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10355	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:46:19 - [109] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: This is where unintended consequences happen. AFK cloakers do serve a purpose, they do put a damper on the liquid isk generation in null. Without them sometimes scarring off the fair weather ratters, their would be even more isk in circulation that it is even null, because null is the primary liquid isk faucet in the game (because CCP decided to make anomalies the center of the Domino Sov upgrade system, anoms were never designed for that).. No, AFK cloakers allow people who aren't playing the game to have an effect. Removing that ability has very intended consequences. The intention is clearly across the board to make actual activity, not passive activity the driver in null, hence the entire sov revamp too. Jenn aSide wrote: Eventually, if CCP does away with afk cloaking, people will try to cloak ratting systems less (because every once in a while they will have to pay attention to that cloaker ship. That means that people LIKE ME are gonna absolutely STUFF isk into this economy. People already stuff isk into the economy. I think the number of players affected directly by afk cloakers is relatively minimal, and the effect of their removal on the economy will be much the same. People on both sides will oversell it as having some profound effect, but realistically it's the removal of a zero risk passive activity which added the appearance of risk to a limited number of systems. I'm all for making sure that when you are logged in and undocked you have to play the game to have an effect. What the above is is dislike of a particualr aspect of a thing over-shadowing the entire thing (which happens in real life politics, people don't like a certain thing, ban all of it without looking at the beneficial parts, and then wonder why other things went **** up) If you focus on the 'afk' part you miss the entire rest of what I'm saying. It's the same thing that happens with gankers, people dislike gankers and want everyhting about ganking to go away not understanding the good things that activity adds to the game (like in some case how getting ganked creates a need for revenge, which is enough of an emotional "tie" to keep someone in the game who might otherwise have left out of boredom). In other words it's a short sighted way to look at things. There are already ways to deal with cloakers (afk or otherwise) and standing on the 'afk is always terrible' ideology is as senseless as saying "all afk miners must die" lol.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10355	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:51:29 - [110] - Quote SilentAsTheGrave wrote: And when they use this anti-cloaking device and discover the cloaker is not AFK... they will run to the forums and unleash an ocean of salty tears as they will be too afraid to undock. It will be glorious! It will be typical actually. It's like everything else, people prone to make excuses always say "if they just give me this, I will be fine", then they get it, and they find another excuse, because the problem wasn't the thing they pretended was an obstacle, it was them, the entire time. This is why I make it a habit of ratting in systems where cloakers are camping, or missionining in Lanngisi or Osmon where gankers are present, because if you take precautions, the threat is minimal. It's like how in real life if you stand up for yourself as a kid you don't get bullied, those bullies want soft weak targets not targets that fight back. (note, not calling hot droppers or gankers bullies, they are jsut playing the game).
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5230	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:53:06 - [111] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: What the above is is dislike of a particualr aspect of a thing over-shadowing the entire thing (which happens in real life politics, people don't like a certain thing, ban all of it without looking at the beneficial parts, and then wonder why other things went ** up) If you focus on the 'afk' part you miss the entire rest of what I'm saying. It's the same thing that happens with gankers, people dislike gankers and want everyhting about ganking to go away not understanding the good things that activity adds to the game (like in some case how getting ganked creates a need for revenge, which is enough of an emotional "tie" to keep someone in the game who might otherwise have left out of boredom). But the AFK part is the entirety of the issue. An active cloaker is actively choosing to have an effect. An AFK cloaker is not. He's not playing the game knowing full well there will be an effect. whether or not you like that effect is irrelevant. If there's a balance issue with that being removed, then that balance issue should be addressed separately. People not playing the game should not be a crutch for bad balance. Jenn aSide wrote:** In other words it's a short sighted way to look at things. There are already ways to deal with cloakers (afk or otherwise) and standing on the 'afk is always terrible' ideology is as senseless as saying "all afk miners must die" lol. I don't like AFK miners either, AFK gameplay is not good gameplay. That said, there's a couple of significant differences between AFK cloakers and AFK miners. - AFK cloakers are effective indefinitely, AFK miners are only effective until the rocks runs out of their hold is filled (~20 mins) - AFK cloakers are 100% safe as they cannot be interacted with, AFK miners - quite obvious - are not. Quite honestly, you should be able to go AFK wherever and whenever you want, but a cloaker going long-term AFK in null sec should be in the same situation as a miner going long-term AFK in nullsec. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
d0cTeR9 Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance 98	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:54:06 - [112] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: This is where unintended consequences happen. AFK cloakers do serve a purpose, they do put a damper on the liquid isk generation in null. Without them sometimes scarring off the fair weather ratters, their would be even more isk in circulation that it is even null, because null is the primary liquid isk faucet in the game (because CCP decided to make anomalies the center of the Domino Sov upgrade system, anoms were never designed for that).. No, AFK cloakers allow people who aren't playing the game to have an effect. Removing that ability has very intended consequences. The intention is clearly across the board to make actual activity, not passive activity the driver in null, hence the entire sov revamp too. Jenn aSide wrote: Eventually, if CCP does away with afk cloaking, people will try to cloak ratting systems less (because every once in a while they will have to pay attention to that cloaker ship. That means that people LIKE ME are gonna absolutely STUFF isk into this economy. People already stuff isk into the economy. I think the number of players affected directly by afk cloakers is relatively minimal, and the effect of their removal on the economy will be much the same. People on both sides will oversell it as having some profound effect, but realistically it's the removal of a zero risk passive activity which added the appearance of risk to a limited number of systems. I'm all for making sure that when you are logged in and undocked you have to play the game to have an effect. What the above is is dislike of a particualr aspect of a thing over-shadowing the entire thing (which happens in real life politics, people don't like a certain thing, ban all of it without looking at the beneficial parts, and then wonder why other things went **** up) If you focus on the 'afk' part you miss the entire rest of what I'm saying. It's the same thing that happens with gankers, people dislike gankers and want everyhting about ganking to go away not understanding the good things that activity adds to the game (like in some case how getting ganked creates a need for revenge, which is enough of an emotional "tie" to keep someone in the game who might otherwise have left out of boredom). In other words it's a short sighted way to look at things. There are already ways to deal with cloakers (afk or otherwise) and standing on the 'afk is always terrible' ideology is as senseless as saying "all afk miners must die" lol. Wrong. AFK cloakers do not provide any risk for the cloakers, while disturbs null-sec activities. With the latest trend of CCP nerfing/changing gameplay so that you HAVE to be put at risk to affect others, it's only normal AFK cloakers gtfo. People said its been in the game sooooo long, well so has fighter assign (and other things), and look where that went after 64+ pages of people offering alternatives (nerfs instead of deleting a gameplay), and CCP made it very clear that they will go with it.
Asura Vajrarupa Rust Jihad 42	Posted - 2015.03.23 18:00:43 - [113] - Quote Milla Goodpussy wrote: so what do we have here? AFK cloaking campers.. whinning about the fact their griefing could be coming to an end? or Tears of the end coming from afk cloakers or just plain out fear from afk cloakers that their perfect playstyle is about to go bye-bye or even close enough of a threat to go bye-bye?? hmmmm Your right, if you're going to harass or spoil the enjoyment of others, you should have to sit at your computer and do it manually. Ignorance is the cause of suffering.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10355	Posted - 2015.03.23 18:05:07 - [114] - Quote d0cTeR9 wrote: Wrong. AFK cloakers do not provide any risk for the cloakers, while disturbs null-sec activities. With the latest trend of CCP nerfing/changing gameplay so that you HAVE to be put at risk to affect others, it's only normal AFK cloakers gtfo. People said its been in the game sooooo long, well so has fighter assign (and other things), and look where that went after 64+ pages of people offering alternatives (nerfs instead of deleting a gameplay), and CCP made it very clear that they will go with it. And getting rid of fighter delgation was the same kind of mistake. At Fanfest Rise said they were getting rid of it because it violated the 'risk/reward idea' and didn't fit with the 'at the keyboard' style of play they wanted to encourage. Problem is they replace fighter delegation with fighter ASSIGN. Now instead assigning my dps ship 5 fighters from a distant carrier alt in a null anom I will assign 13 fighters to that same dps ship from my now on grid carrier alt that will be aligned out to the same POS it was hugging before, being every bit as safe is it was before, just with WAY MORE ON-GRID DPS lol. and mean way more, with fighter dlegation my dps ship couldn't launch it's own drones, with fighter ASSIGN you can lol. But hey, at least the carrier is in 'danger' right? rofl Likewise, getting rid of long term afk cloaking (while personally welcome, screw you Confederation of XXPizza for camping Delve on contract to Mittani lol), it will have some bad unintended consequneces, and i'll be there again to point and say 'told yall'.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1152	Posted - 2015.03.23 18:49:42 - [115] - Quote There are people I scroll right past. I think I have become one of those people. Remember though guys, the forums are here just for us to vent and reassure each other. If they want to know something, we will get a questionaire. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6484	Posted - 2015.03.23 18:51:23 - [116] - Quote The bottom line on this topic is that the play style around denying playing of the game in such a manner that one need not have to play the game is one of the causes of the Great Malaise that has been killing this game. I see the little quips about how an AFK player is of no harm. These are the people getting off on the Schrodinger's Cat game. All well and good then, but YOU cannot be AFK too. It's a PVP game, remember? HTFU, remember? All they want to do is prevent people who like to spend a sporadic hour hunting here and there and be logged in and cloaked somewhere for the remaining 23 hours. It's very clear what they are doing and there is no more telling lies about it and gas lighting everybody else on the matter with little snarks. All of the little strawmen set up to protect this griefing have been knocked down. The players who have noted that the mechanics in the past have favored this so called "play style" chose to play something else. When you make the sandbox into your litterbox and then complain about lack of targets then you should think of playing something else. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lucien Visteen Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 147	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:09:48 - [117] - Quote Good news everone! This thread have opened up over in F&I, if you don't already know. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=414191 I have a feeling that CCP will pay a very close attention to that thread, so if you have any concerns or questions I suggest you raise them there. The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Kamahl Daikun Back To Basics. 56	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:23:56 - [118] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: The bottom line on this topic is that the play style around denying playing of the game in such a manner that one need not have to play the game is one of the causes of the Great Malaise that has been killing this game. I see the little quips about how an AFK player is of no harm. These are the people getting off on the Schrodinger's Cat game. All well and good then, but YOU cannot be AFK too. It's a PVP game, remember? HTFU, remember? All they want to do is prevent people who like to spend a sporadic hour hunting here and there and be logged in and cloaked somewhere for the remaining 23 hours. It's very clear what they are doing and there is no more telling lies about it and gas lighting everybody else on the matter with little snarks. All of the little strawmen set up to protect this griefing have been knocked down. The players who have noted that the mechanics in the past have favored this so called "play style" chose to play something else. When you make the sandbox into your litterbox and then complain about lack of targets then you should think of playing something else. I'm still confused on the logic here. "This guy is afk cloaked in system and somehow preventing me from ratting, mining, running anoms, etc." Are we playing the same game?
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10360	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:31:54 - [119] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: The bottom line on this topic is that the play style around denying playing of the game in such a manner that one need not have to play the game is one of the causes of the Great Malaise that has been killing this game. I see the little quips about how an AFK player is of no harm. These are the people getting off on the Schrodinger's Cat game. All well and good then, but YOU cannot be AFK too. It's a PVP game, remember? HTFU, remember? HTFU has nothing to do with it, if it did it would be "HTFU and stop hiding from someone who might not even be there lol. My fear is that, in the standard knee jerk reaction people have to things they don't like (like what just happened on skynet, a non-problem if ever there was one), CCP will make rash changes to this complex game that will not only not fix the problem they aimed at, but rather cause problems for the rest of us while the targeted folks benefit in some way I have not yet imagined. The anti-afk cloak crowd is short sighted and lazy, and i know because I defeated afk cloakers before they even subbed their accounts, by using eft, my brain and the tools the game gave me. Everyone should be expected to do that FIRST, but telling that to the current generation might not carry as much weight as it does to my own lol. What will happen is CCP will give afk cloaking the "CCP treatment" (aim to fix one thing with good intentions), the campers will find a new (probably worse/more annoying) way to do what they are already doing, and the people who end up suffering aren't just the whiners who couldn't use the already existing tools, but ALL of us who live and play in the affected space. This is already happening btw, tomorrow 'skynet' goes away and my ability to thumb my nose at afk cloakers by ratting in a tanked industrial with a target painter and assigned fighters will go away. Not a big deal, it just means "whack-a-mole' ratting with my stabbed gila (warp to little used anom, blap npcs, warp off to the next forbore the cloaker can drop on me if he isn't afk) or using the warp core stabbed/FoF/sentry drone rattlesnake, but gone will be a cool "F-YOU-YOU-AFK-BASTARD" technique, all because whiners can't deal. But hey, at least we'll all be at the keyboard miserable together lol. Some people are so weak that creativity, even in a video game, is foreign to them.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10360	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:32:58 - [120] - Quote Kamahl Daikun wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: The bottom line on this topic is that the play style around denying playing of the game in such a manner that one need not have to play the game is one of the causes of the Great Malaise that has been killing this game. I see the little quips about how an AFK player is of no harm. These are the people getting off on the Schrodinger's Cat game. All well and good then, but YOU cannot be AFK too. It's a PVP game, remember? HTFU, remember? All they want to do is prevent people who like to spend a sporadic hour hunting here and there and be logged in and cloaked somewhere for the remaining 23 hours. It's very clear what they are doing and there is no more telling lies about it and gas lighting everybody else on the matter with little snarks. All of the little strawmen set up to protect this griefing have been knocked down. The players who have noted that the mechanics in the past have favored this so called "play style" chose to play something else. When you make the sandbox into your litterbox and then complain about lack of targets then you should think of playing something else. I'm still confused on the logic here. "This guy is afk cloaked in system and somehow preventing me from ratting, mining, running anoms, etc." Are we playing the same game? The real truth is that no, folks like you and I aren't play the same game as some of 'them'. They want CCP to play the game for them.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen Origin. Black Legion. 2071	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:42:31 - [121] - Quote AFK cloaking has its own threads, over and over again...and I really wonder why CCP already hasn't implemented THIS. Why? Because the root issue is that an AFK cloaky (or person docked in station even) is exerting a meta force on the playing field, while not actually being at his computer. It's one thing to be actively playing and cloaky camping, but another entirely to be exerting a 'presence' in a system and a meta force on others gameplay, when you are actually out at the movies with your significant other. Sorry, but there is simply no defending that scenario. CCP needs to implement an inactivity auto-logoff prompt ASAP, tuning the timeout value to taste (i.e. 15 mins, 20, 30..etc). F Would you like to know more?
Luna Arindale Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District 54	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:48:21 - [122] - Quote Why are you all so angry? There is going to be no more pos shields so rorquals and orcas can't sit perfectly safe afk boosting anymore. I deem this a damn fair trade off for that. All this does is make there be only two ways to be afk in eve, inside of a station, or docked/moored with the other new constructs. Be happy that you'll get more targets to shoot without having to rely heavily on cloaks and cynos.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 8071	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:51:36 - [123] - Quote Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: AFK cloaking has its own threads, over and over again...and I really wonder why CCP already hasn't implemented THIS. Because it takes about 15 seconds to write a script to defeat it. Are you new to these fancy new computing contraptions? Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10361	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:55:04 - [124] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: AFK cloaking has its own threads, over and over again...and I really wonder why CCP already hasn't implemented THIS. Because it takes about 15 seconds to write a script to defeat it. Are you new to these fancy new computing contraptions? Mr Epeen Yea, but wouldn't they be able to do that with 'decloaking pulses' too? The idea I see floated is a structure emits a pulse to decloak things from time to time. Botters still exist and I wouldn't put it past them. of course that is an opportunity for CCP to remove a botter.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen Origin. Black Legion. 2071	Posted - 2015.03.23 20:21:54 - [125] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: AFK cloaking has its own threads, over and over again...and I really wonder why CCP already hasn't implemented THIS. Because it takes about 15 seconds to write a script to defeat it. Are you new to these fancy new computing contraptions? Mr Epeen Because that would be similar to 'botting', and detectible/bannable offense? Hell dude, if you want to get all anal-retentive on my ass we could just add a captcha to the prompt...you know, fancy new human input verification contraptions? Ass. F Would you like to know more?
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen Origin. Black Legion. 2071	Posted - 2015.03.23 20:23:29 - [126] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: AFK cloaking has its own threads, over and over again...and I really wonder why CCP already hasn't implemented THIS. Because it takes about 15 seconds to write a script to defeat it. Are you new to these fancy new computing contraptions? Mr Epeen Yea, but wouldn't they be able to do that with 'decloaking pulses' too? The idea I see floated is a structure emits a pulse to decloak things from time to time. Botters still exist and I wouldn't put it past them. of course that is an opportunity for CCP to remove a botter. The benefit of an inactivity prompt is it would also auto-log off AFK-docked people, who are also exerting a meta force of presence without actually being present in game. The timer could be tuned to taste, to still allow people time for a bio break, etc; but people not actively playing the game should not be exerting meta forces in game. Period. F Would you like to know more?
SmilingVagrant GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2677	Posted - 2015.03.23 20:26:21 - [127] - Quote look guys I'm not permanently afk i just have ibs so I poop a lot ok.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1152	Posted - 2015.03.23 20:27:12 - [128] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: The bottom line on this topic is that the play style around denying playing of the game in such a manner that one need not have to play the game is one of the causes of the Great Malaise that has been killing this game. I see the little quips about how an AFK player is of no harm. These are the people getting off on the Schrodinger's Cat game. All well and good then, but YOU cannot be AFK too. It's a PVP game, remember? HTFU, remember? All they want to do is prevent people who like to spend a sporadic hour hunting here and there and be logged in and cloaked somewhere for the remaining 23 hours. It's very clear what they are doing and there is no more telling lies about it and gas lighting everybody else on the matter with little snarks. All of the little strawmen set up to protect this griefing have been knocked down. The players who have noted that the mechanics in the past have favored this so called "play style" chose to play something else. When you make the sandbox into your litterbox and then complain about lack of targets then you should think of playing something else. Quoted to first page. Luna Arindale wrote: Why are you all so angry? There is going to be no more pos shields so rorquals and orcas can't sit perfectly safe afk boosting anymore. I deem this a damn fair trade off for that. All this does is make there be only two ways to be afk in eve, inside of a station, or docked/moored with the other new constructs. Be happy that you'll get more targets to shoot without having to rely heavily on cloaks and cynos. Attach / dock up/ log off as soon as a red is seen within 5 systems of your ship. Do the same as soon as a red signature goes up. It might be a worm hole, wait until you are sure it is not. Keep bending the game around to making these defenseless ships more gankable? Simply stop flying them. Accept that Skiffs and Miasmos'es are as good as it gets. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Kamahl Daikun Back To Basics. 56	Posted - 2015.03.23 20:48:58 - [129] - Quote SmilingVagrant wrote: look guys I'm not permanently afk i just have ibs so I poop a lot ok. Ugh, this. I play another game with a 15-minute auto log out timer. I don't know what new breed of human being can poop that fast but dear God is it the most annoying goddamn thing in the world.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 35047	Posted - 2015.03.23 20:58:18 - [130] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Luna Arindale wrote: Why are you all so angry? There is going to be no more pos shields so rorquals and orcas can't sit perfectly safe afk boosting anymore. I deem this a damn fair trade off for that. All this does is make there be only two ways to be afk in eve, inside of a station, or docked/moored with the other new constructs. Be happy that you'll get more targets to shoot without having to rely heavily on cloaks and cynos. Keep bending the game around to making these defenseless ships more gankable? If a Rorqual or Orca is boosting, then there are players active. If they can't defend their assets, then they don't deserve to keep them. There's no need to just keep making the game safer and safer, just because there is a view that Rorquals and Orca's are defenceless. Be prepared to defend them or don't use them to gain a benefit in the first place. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Soldarius Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent 1182	Posted - 2015.03.23 21:18:32 - [131] - Quote Dradis Aulmais wrote: Pft could grow balls so CCP gave out some. Afk cloaking has never been a problem for us. You have to have space worth camping, brah. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Soldarius Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent 1182	Posted - 2015.03.23 21:20:42 - [132] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: AFK cloaking has its own threads, over and over again...and I really wonder why CCP already hasn't implemented THIS. Because it takes about 15 seconds to write a script to defeat it. Are you new to these fancy new computing contraptions? Mr Epeen Enjoy your permaban. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Darian Frost Martyr's Vengence 11	Posted - 2015.03.23 21:25:25 - [133] - Quote Kamahl Daikun wrote: SmilingVagrant wrote: look guys I'm not permanently afk i just have ibs so I poop a lot ok. Ugh, this. I play another game with a 15-minute auto log out timer. I don't know what new breed of human being can poop that fast but dear God is it the most annoying goddamn thing in the world. I can do a full blown poop in like 30 seconds flat. It's a wonderful gift.
BrundleMeth Caldari Provisions Caldari State 402	Posted - 2015.03.23 22:19:33 - [134] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: ...but I hope they know that some of us don't need or appreciate their attempts to hold our hands. If you look like your Avatar PLEASE come hold my hand...
Agent Intrepid Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 19	Posted - 2015.03.23 23:35:04 - [135] - Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ Holy ****!
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp Vae. Victis. 6179	Posted - 2015.03.23 23:40:31 - [136] - Quote Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: AFK cloaking has its own threads, over and over again...and I really wonder why CCP already hasn't implemented THIS. Because it takes about 15 seconds to write a script to defeat it. Are you new to these fancy new computing contraptions? Mr Epeen Yea, but wouldn't they be able to do that with 'decloaking pulses' too? The idea I see floated is a structure emits a pulse to decloak things from time to time. Botters still exist and I wouldn't put it past them. of course that is an opportunity for CCP to remove a botter. The benefit of an inactivity prompt is it would also auto-log off AFK-docked people, who are also exerting a meta force of presence without actually being present in game. The timer could be tuned to taste, to still allow people time for a bio break, etc; but people not actively playing the game should not be exerting meta forces in game. Period. F The flip side of the coin, as far as cloakers go, is that a decloaking pulse or slow calibrating cloaked vessel detector allows a chance to find and kill the cloaker. A inactivity prompt with auto-log off does not. View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1152	Posted - 2015.03.24 01:23:48 - [137] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Luna Arindale wrote: Why are you all so angry? There is going to be no more pos shields so rorquals and orcas can't sit perfectly safe afk boosting anymore. I deem this a damn fair trade off for that. All this does is make there be only two ways to be afk in eve, inside of a station, or docked/moored with the other new constructs. Be happy that you'll get more targets to shoot without having to rely heavily on cloaks and cynos. Keep bending the game around to making these defenseless ships more gankable? If a Rorqual or Orca is boosting, then there are players active. If they can't defend their assets, then they don't deserve to keep them. There's no need to just keep making the game safer and safer, just because there is a view that Rorquals and Orca's are defenceless. Be prepared to defend them or don't use them to gain a benefit in the first place. I have been advocating ways for Rorquals and Orcas to be seen in belts again with some sane reasoning. The basic point is that EVE players will not sit around guarding a Rorqual with combat ships and they can be killed extremely quickly. Also considering the nature of Null Sec they could have a drive-by Titan dropped on them or a myriad of other things. Most people won't and some will only float a Rorqual around once until it dies. Then they will not replace it under ludicrous decisions. (Keep in mind that this is me saying these things. I mine and I PVP. I am not one of the completely combat adverse miners who dock or die and won't undock until the enemies are well and truly gone.) CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Niobe Song Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 57	Posted - 2015.03.24 01:27:58 - [138] - Quote At Fanfest CCP Rise talked about the possibility for a siege mode that a Rorq and Orca could have for themselves and for their fleet of mining ships. Lasting long enough for friends to come to the rescue from a system 6 jumps away. Doesn't sound like a change is coming anytime soon though.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 8079	Posted - 2015.03.24 01:30:16 - [139] - Quote Soldarius wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: AFK cloaking has its own threads, over and over again...and I really wonder why CCP already hasn't implemented THIS. Because it takes about 15 seconds to write a script to defeat it. Are you new to these fancy new computing contraptions? Mr Epeen Enjoy your permaban. Unless the game requires a captcha to reset the inactivity monitor, no one is going to get banned. All a script needs to do is randomly move your mouse pointer one pixel to restart the inactivity monitor. Depends on the set up of the inactivity monitor of course, but most reset with a simple pointer gesture. This is why CCP is not going to bother with one. Easy to defeat and impossible to tell an ATK pointer wiggle from an AFK pointer wiggle. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
DaReaper Net 7 1861	Posted - 2015.03.24 01:41:12 - [140] - Quote As there is nothing written in stone, this doens;t mean bye bye afk cloaking. for all we know it just means they will remove local in null unless one of these is deployed. you really dunno WHAT it will do yet. So add your feed back to what you want them to do. btw tl;dr the thread OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Milla Goodpussy Federal Navy Academy 205	Posted - 2015.03.24 02:43:10 - [141] - Quote im drinking afk cloaking campers tears.. I don't know about you guys.. but how does it taste? I taste the fear!! FEAR-BEER!! Pour some out for the homies tip up and get turned up afk cloaking begone!! (begins moonwalking)
Josef Djugashvilis 2926	Posted - 2015.03.24 07:55:25 - [142] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: AFK cloaking should be nerfed just as soon as someone can show how an afk cloaker can hurt anyone. Pretending you don't understand the problem doesn't make the problem go away. Its like saying hibernating bears are not dangerous because they're hibernating. ******** point of view to take isn't it. The title of the thread is to do with afk cloaking. My argument stands. Pretending that an afk cloaker is a problem is nonsense. afk cannot harm anyone. Player is at the keyboard in a cloaked ship, valid style of gameplay. Weapons do not do any harm you know? It's people who use weapons to harm other people. So why not sell weapons to everyone in any supermarket? Your logic Sorry, but your response is your, well, Iogic, not mine. If a miner is afk and gets ganked it is his fault for being afk, if the same player is afk in a cloaked ship he is now a threat? Weird. This is not a signature.
Liafcipe9000 Critically Preposterous 33991	Posted - 2015.03.24 08:00:59 - [143] - Quote Milla Goodpussy wrote: im drinking afk cloaking campers tears.. I don't know about you guys.. but how does it taste? I taste the fear!! FEAR-BEER!! Pour some out for the homies tip up and get turned up afk cloaking begone!! (begins moonwalking) the tears from this one. his butthurt is strong. Founder of the Graycember movement and LAGL's pet cat. Critically Preposterous is recruiting! please send evemail if interested.
Tron Flux Warlock Assassins 2	Posted - 2015.03.24 08:30:05 - [144] - Quote I can't help but think that the whole idea that meta-gaming while AFK == bad is a completely invented concept. Exhibit A: the forums. Since when are we not allowed to influence the way people play the game outside of the game or away from the keyboard? We have EvE blogs, and EvE maps, and EvE fitting tools, and EvE chat channels. Many, if not most, people who play this game regularly have their game play influenced by people who are not at their keyboards right this very second. Yeah, we aren't allowed to do certain very specific things while AFK. We can't blow stuff up. And we can't mine stuff. But that is an incredibly far cry from saying that you can't influence the players at all while you're AFK. I think many people have jumped to an incredibly hasty generalization that says because we can't do x, we can't do some superset of x because of some imaginary general principle. There might be other things wrong with AFK cloaking. But I'm quite certain that influencing the way some people play the game while away from it isn't a thing CCP really thinks of as an issue. Otherwise, we have a whole crap-ton of nerfs headed our way. Obviously, CCP has historically made a clear distinction between influencing the players of the game, and having an in-game effect. Having and effect on the game while AFK? Kind of a big no-no. Affecting the way people play the game? That has, so far, been completely acceptable. I'm not really sure why anyone would want that to change. It would be an enormous nerf to 'bears of all kinds if CCP were to change their attitude about this.
BrundleMeth Caldari Provisions Caldari State 402	Posted - 2015.03.24 10:42:51 - [145] - Quote I find it hilarious how doing absolutely nothing can fill people with paralyzing fear... I like to hop into a Manticore and fly 60-70 jumps through Null to see what I can see. One time, I found an NPC station in Null and decided to park there for 2 weeks. I would log on and sit for hours chatting in my NPC Corp Chat. Finally after 2 weeks, someone asked me to chat. He wanted to know what I was doing in "their" station. Seems some Null Corp had set up their HO in this NPC station. They were scared I was some kind of spy who was watching them for nefarious reasons. So for the two weeks, they had stopped 90% of their ISK earning activity until I moved on. I told them to relax, I was just hanging out. I'm betting they didn't believe me but who cares. And I learned I have a power I had no idea I had...
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5233	Posted - 2015.03.24 12:43:22 - [146] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Sorry, but your response is your, well, Iogic, not mine. If a miner is afk and gets ganked it is his fault for being afk, if the same player is afk in a cloaked ship he is now a threat? Weird. Dude, it's real simple. A cloaked pilot who is not AFK is definitely a threat, as he can come and kill you. There is no way to tell whether a pilot is AFK or not, thus an AFK pilot cloaked shhould be considered as much of a potential threat as a non-AFK one. And for what you said, why doesn't that work both ways? A miner is AFK - he gets ganked. Why then if a cloaker is AFK should he not get the exact same treatment? Why can a cloaker go AFK indefinitely and retain 100% safety? The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
kitsune Sabre Imperial Guardians Executive Outcomes 3	Posted - 2015.03.24 12:55:40 - [147] - Quote somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5233	Posted - 2015.03.24 13:01:25 - [148] - Quote kitsune Sabre wrote: somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person Good for you. I guess it's completely fine to have mechanics which allow people to have an effect - regardless of how minor - while they are asleep or at work with 100% safety because you don't care. At the end of the day, to play EVE you should play EVE. If you **** off to work and leave yourself logged in and in space you should expect to be dead by the time you get back. It's really that simple. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10375	Posted - 2015.03.24 13:07:05 - [149] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Sorry, but your response is your, well, Iogic, not mine. If a miner is afk and gets ganked it is his fault for being afk, if the same player is afk in a cloaked ship he is now a threat? Weird. Dude, it's real simple. A cloaked pilot who is not AFK is definitely a threat, as he can come and kill you. There is no way to tell whether a pilot is AFK or not, thus an AFK pilot cloaked shhould be considered as much of a potential threat as a non-AFK one. And for what you said, why doesn't that work both ways? A miner is AFK - he gets ganked. Why then if a cloaker is AFK should he not get the exact same treatment? Why can a cloaker go AFK indefinitely and retain 100% safety? Because the afk cloaked, unlike the afk miner, can't interact with the environment in the same way. The 'danger' narrative is a false one, people don't dock up because a cloaker is present, which is why 'afk cloaking' isn't a problem in worlmhoel space. The problem is that in dominion CCP took anomalies and made the the center of the systems up grade scheme. Becasue anoms are open sites like belts, a cloaker can warp to one, decloak, point a pve ship and light a cyno, dropping enough ships on the pve boat to kill it quickly. In other words, afk cloaking is the emergent gameplay counter to the anomaly farms Dominion created. And some of the farmers don't like it. So for 6 years now they yhave complained about it (while failing to complain about our anomaly farms that spew liquid isk every 20 minutes like old yeller). This is why I could never bring myself to 'hate' cloakers, I KNOW the benefit I get from farmable anomalies (according to that niffty stats website, across the 3 characters I use in null I made 250 BILLION isk last year from null sec, mostly anoms, and another 100 bil from high sec incursions and mission on a 4th character. I have 2 bil in my wallet because budgeting is not my thing lol). Complaining about afk cloakers would be dishonest because even with them there I pried a quarter TRILLION isk out of null.
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 253	Posted - 2015.03.24 13:07:17 - [150] - Quote kitsune Sabre wrote: somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person yeah ok good luck, do you think the cloaky is just going to throw sisters probes at you till your "friend" arrives, no he gonna throw 15+ man bomber fleet at you EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5233	Posted - 2015.03.24 14:23:48 - [151] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Because the afk cloaked, unlike the afk miner, can't interact with the environment in the same way. An AFK miner also can't interact with the environment long term. At the very most he can mine up to 3 rocks until they dissappear, or his cargohold is full. Effectively he can mine at most about 8 million isk before he is no longer doing anything. Less in fact than if you drop sentries in an anom them go to bed. The difference is though that when encountered, a miner or a PvE player can be hunted down and destroyed. A cloaker has a small meta effect which will last indefinitely. Nobody can deny that AFK clokaers do cause a change in behaviour, otherwise they wouldn't exist, there would be no point in doing it if it had no effect. So why after 20 minutes (the approximate time for a miner to be no longer useful if AFK) should the cloaker not stop being effective too? Jenn aSide wrote: The 'danger' narrative is a false one, people don't dock up because a cloaker is present, which is why 'afk cloaking' isn't a problem in worlmhoel space. The problem is that in dominion CCP took anomalies and made the the center of the systems up grade scheme. Becasue anoms are open sites like belts, a cloaker can warp to one, decloak, point a pve ship and light a cyno, dropping enough ships on the pve boat to kill it quickly. In other words, afk cloaking is the emergent gameplay counter to the anomaly farms Dominion created. And some of the farmers don't like it. So for 6 years now they yhave complained about it (while failing to complain about our anomaly farms that spew liquid isk every 20 minutes like old yeller). People don't necessarily dock up, but their behaviour changes. Wormholes have less of this as they are naturally places where you are more aware by choice, and they are so much easier to lock down. Wormholes can be closed down, classes restrict what size of ship you will see, and force projection doesn't exist. In addition, wormholes necessitate omnitanking, which isn't really an option for null PvE, which makes most player far more suited to surviving a PvP attack. Jenn aSide wrote: This is why I could never bring myself to 'hate' cloakers, I KNOW the benefit I get from farmable anomalies (according to that niffty stats website, across the 3 characters I use in null I made 250 BILLION isk last year from null sec, mostly anoms, and another 100 bil from high sec incursions and mission on a 4th character. I have 2 bil in my wallet because budgeting is not my thing lol). Complaining about afk cloakers would be dishonest because even with them there I pried a quarter TRILLION isk out of null. I certainly don't hate cloakers, I just believe that players in all aspects of the game should need to be active, and where they choose to be undocked and away from the computer, they should be put at the same risk. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1155	Posted - 2015.03.25 01:23:38 - [152] - Quote kitsune Sabre wrote: somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person How about this scenario that I have seen: - The covert hot dropper has alts in every system. - Knows how many you have and how many can respond. - Drops a force that wipes out you and any of your friends that can respond in time. Sits there for weeks. Slow strangling death for an alliance. While him? He gets to pick exactly when he plays those alts while all the others have play denial. "Fun" game. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Adriana Nolen Sama Guild 65	Posted - 2015.03.25 03:06:33 - [153] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: kitsune Sabre wrote: somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person How about this scenario that I have seen: - The covert hot dropper has alts in every system. - Knows how many you have and how many can respond. - Drops a force that wipes out you and any of your friends that can respond in time. Sits there for weeks. Slow strangling death for an alliance. While him? He gets to pick exactly when he plays those alts while all the others have play denial. "Fun" game. If you can't handle the heat, maybe you shouldn't be in null/low.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5235	Posted - 2015.03.25 03:17:39 - [154] - Quote Adriana Nolen wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: kitsune Sabre wrote: somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person How about this scenario that I have seen: - The covert hot dropper has alts in every system. - Knows how many you have and how many can respond. - Drops a force that wipes out you and any of your friends that can respond in time. Sits there for weeks. Slow strangling death for an alliance. While him? He gets to pick exactly when he plays those alts while all the others have play denial. "Fun" game. If you can't handle the heat, maybe you shouldn't be in null/low. Yeah Jenshae! If you can;t handle someone being able to be completely invulnerable in your space even when they are asleep, clearly it's your fault and not dumb mechanics. You should just move out of null, that way people can happily continue to actively not play the game. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12276	Posted - 2015.03.25 03:29:22 - [155] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: I certainly don't hate cloakers, I just believe that players in all aspects of the game should need to be active, and where they choose to be undocked and away from the computer, they should be put at the same risk. You say, whilst being one of the most ardent defenders of mining, miners, and ISBotter. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Sean Parisi Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T 668	Posted - 2015.03.25 03:37:13 - [156] - Quote Is it that time again? That moment when you realize that these are theoretical ideas and uses? This isn't a "Cemented" change - it is a loose idea of what some possibilities could be. So not very speechless, because truthfully it probably wont make it in.
Saisin State War Academy Caldari State 222	Posted - 2015.03.25 03:54:13 - [157] - Quote Adriana Nolen wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: kitsune Sabre wrote: somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person How about this scenario that I have seen: - The covert hot dropper has alts in every system. - Knows how many you have and how many can respond. - Drops a force that wipes out you and any of your friends that can respond in time. Sits there for weeks. Slow strangling death for an alliance. While him? He gets to pick exactly when he plays those alts while all the others have play denial. "Fun" game. If you can't handle the heat, maybe you shouldn't be in null/low. If you can't handle this simple logic, may be you should not be in the game. You are going to loose this argument in the same way that IsBoxers have lost the key replication one. "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo. solo? There is a new hope...
Demons Hell KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2015.03.25 10:10:34 - [158] - Quote useless afk cloaked camper = cancer for this game.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5236	Posted - 2015.03.25 10:53:14 - [159] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: I certainly don't hate cloakers, I just believe that players in all aspects of the game should need to be active, and where they choose to be undocked and away from the computer, they should be put at the same risk. You say, whilst being one of the most ardent defenders of mining, miners, and ISBotter. Really? I Certainly defend mining as in I want the activity to continue, though I'd prefer it's AFK play to be addressed. That said, long term AFK isn't something you can do with mining, and short bursts of AFK are generally fine and exist in nearly all activites. ISBoxer I have no problem with them removing, I've even suggested ways to make it completely useless. My issue with the ISBoxer situation was a combination of how they chose to address it, via fuzzy rules and not fixed mechanics, and their lack of communication over it. Of course you didn't realise that because you make wild assumptions rather than reading people's posts. Amusingly even if you read the post of mine you just quoted, it states that people ho are AFK should be at risk, which miners for example are. I want that for cloakers too. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1156	Posted - 2015.03.25 13:24:56 - [160] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: I Certainly defend mining as in I want the activity to continue, though I'd prefer it's AFK play to be addressed. I have come to like the semi-AFK nature of mining. It is when you can organise things, share fits, make plans and so forth, all while making some ISK. If it became an active mini-game annoying activity then I would spin my ship when I was doing those things. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6493	Posted - 2015.03.26 04:11:09 - [161] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: kitsune Sabre wrote: somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person How about this scenario that I have seen: - The covert hot dropper has alts in every system. - Knows how many you have and how many can respond. - Drops a force that wipes out you and any of your friends that can respond in time. Sits there for weeks. Slow strangling death for an alliance. While him? He gets to pick exactly when he plays those alts while all the others have play denial. "Fun" game. That's pretty much what is meant when referring to game mechanics that favor the playstyle of denying the game of being played. It's one of the causes of the great Malaise of 2014. The end of AFK cloaking is a fix for this problem. If a highsec miner or hauler can't be AFK, then the nullsec hot dropper can't be AFK either. It's time for the griefing community to stop trying to gaslight the rest of us on this. Everybody who plays across the spectrum knows exactly what the arguments against a nerf to AFK cloaking really say. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12287	Posted - 2015.03.26 04:52:43 - [162] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: If a highsec miner or hauler can't be AFK, then the nullsec hot dropper can't be AFK either. The "AFK" cloaker is not earning personal income via that mechanic. They're two totally different things. But hey, if you want to start that ball rolling, I'll go ahead. Mining lasers should not auto cycle. Quote: It's time for the griefing community to stop trying to gaslight the rest of us on this. Everybody who plays across the spectrum knows exactly what the arguments against a nerf to AFK cloaking really say. That comparing apples and oranges isn't appropriate, no matter how times people like you try? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5241	Posted - 2015.03.26 08:23:36 - [163] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: If a highsec miner or hauler can't be AFK, then the nullsec hot dropper can't be AFK either. The "AFK" cloaker is not earning personal income via that mechanic. They're two totally different things. But hey, if you want to start that ball rolling, I'll go ahead. Mining lasers should not auto cycle. A hauler doesn't earn personal income by doing that. A miner makes as most ~8 million isk if they manage to live. A cloaker has the same effect indefinitely and without risk, and while they don't make isk from it, they obviously benefit or they wouldn't do it. You know this, nobody can be as oblivious to the facts as you claim to be. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Baneken Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 505	Posted - 2015.03.26 08:24:01 - [164] - Quote Best solution would be a POS module that simply allows probing cloaked targets while you sit uncloaked on grid with it and with the purposed removal of POS shields from future structures this solution would put equal risk to both sides especially if the device would actually work without it's probes being seen from a d-scan so that the purposed cloaker has to actually work for his meal. Obviously this device would otherwise work identical to current probing mechanics so you would still need to warp to 0 to actually de-cloak after 100% ping and yes you could still afk-cloak as usual but now with some actual risks from the defenders factored in.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5241	Posted - 2015.03.26 08:49:53 - [165] - Quote Baneken wrote: Best solution would be a POS module that simply allows probing cloaked targets while you sit uncloaked on grid with it and with the purposed removal of POS shields from future structures this solution would put equal risk to both sides especially if the device would actually work without it's probes being seen from a d-scan so that the purposed cloaker has to actually work for his meal. Obviously this device would otherwise work identical to current probing mechanics so you would still need to warp to 0 to actually de-cloak after 100% ping and yes you could still afk-cloak as usual but now with some actual risks from the defenders factored in. The problem with that is that you'd never decloak a cloaker who is in motion, which and AFKer can do too. You'd not know whether someone is actively avoiding you or just in motion, so you're back to the same issue. Ideally it would just be a module that you can trigger once in a while which decloaks the entire system. You can then cloak them as normal. If they aren't AFK, they'll be back cloaked and warped away by the time you get to them. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 265	Posted - 2015.03.26 09:17:27 - [166] - Quote something similar to core/combat scanner probes might work well but instead of scanning they emit a pulse which will decloak anything within the range of the probes (10km range?), instead of hitting scan the function will be activate a pulse once you have placed the probes, an afker would be found eventually and if your at your keyboard, much harder as you can be moving to pings when the probes get close. decloaking someone who is legitimately at the keyboard via a pos mod isnt really very well thought out and doesnt add any effort to gameplay (kinda ruins cloaking as a feature), would this cloak friendly cloakies too?, requiring someone to scan out a cloaked ship i feel would be more suitable. EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 265	Posted - 2015.03.26 09:30:05 - [167] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: If a highsec miner or hauler can't be AFK, then the nullsec hot dropper can't be AFK either. The "AFK" cloaker is not earning personal income via that mechanic. They're two totally different things. But hey, if you want to start that ball rolling, I'll go ahead. Mining lasers should not auto cycle. Quote: It's time for the griefing community to stop trying to gaslight the rest of us on this. Everybody who plays across the spectrum knows exactly what the arguments against a nerf to AFK cloaking really say. That comparing apples and oranges isn't appropriate, no matter how times people like you try? is an afk hauler making income being afk? no he doesnt make income till he gets to his destination just like and afk cloaker is not making any income till he decides to hotdrop something, it comes down to risk, haulers (afk or not) have more risk than an afk cloaker does EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Baneken Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 507	Posted - 2015.03.26 09:33:34 - [168] - Quote Or just simply "a cloak scanner probe" that only finds ships that are cloaked, might be used with PvE as well now that we know that there are cloaked structures around. if the cloaker is not afk he immediately sees the probes on d-scan and drops cloak / runs if not, well ... Might be even better then a new structure.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 2028	Posted - 2015.03.26 10:04:57 - [169] - Quote Adriana Nolen wrote: Quote: E. Observatory arrays Dedicated to intelligence gathering. ...... be able to affect or pinpoint cloak users. .... Speechless You need to remember probably this will require a certain level of development onthe system. So only some of the systems will have that protection. "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!" For the rest hire PoH \| Recruitment
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 2028	Posted - 2015.03.26 10:10:44 - [170] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Sorry, but your response is your, well, Iogic, not mine. If a miner is afk and gets ganked it is his fault for being afk, if the same player is afk in a cloaked ship he is now a threat? Weird. Dude, it's real simple. A cloaked pilot who is not AFK is definitely a threat, as he can come and kill you. There is no way to tell whether a pilot is AFK or not, thus an AFK pilot cloaked shhould be considered as much of a potential threat as a non-AFK one. And for what you said, why doesn't that work both ways? A miner is AFK - he gets ganked. Why then if a cloaker is AFK should he not get the exact same treatment? Why can a cloaker go AFK indefinitely and retain 100% safety? People are still too scared like little childreen. Just rat in pairs.. or BE ON COMMS LIKE YOU ALL SHOULD, and the chance of dieing to a single cloak ship is small. The only real risk is that cloak ships opening a cyno/covert cyno. If the AFK ship is not from a large corp, just put that corp into your watch list and you will know when there is a chance of something like that happening. But if your group is not organized enough and on comms enough to listen to a call and arrive with 2-3 ships on the belt before anyone died, then the problem is on your group. The only ones that might die fast enough are miners, but just change to the tanky version of your mining ship and you will take a while to die as well to a single ship. Still some risk? YES, but not enourmous risk. When I lived in 0.0 I never stopped my activities because of an AFK cloaky ship, jsut made small adjustments, and NEVER EVER lost a ship. "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!" For the rest hire PoH \| Recruitment
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1162	Posted - 2015.03.26 10:21:31 - [171] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Just rat in pairs.. or be on comms like you should and the chance of dieing to a single cloak ship is small. The only real risk is that cloak ships opening a cyno/covert cyno. . That needs the emphasis. They also work as effective warp to points and can pin a target while the others are in warp (for other types of space) Recons with: - ineffectual probes that give a general location - D-scan that works if others are cloaked or not - slow activating "sonar" module that allows them to see through a cloak that is on grid. They can target but only ways for them to de-cloak them is 2km proximity or neut the cloak off them. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Janeway84 Def Squadron Pride Before Fall 156	Posted - 2015.03.26 10:40:19 - [172] - Quote We could all make alts and go out to nullsec and afk cloak even more then yes?
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15526	Posted - 2015.03.26 10:47:05 - [173] - Quote Cant wait to hear the screams out outrage when CCP changes local chat in null to the same as WH space. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 266	Posted - 2015.03.26 10:56:55 - [174] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Cant wait to hear the screams out outrage when CCP changes local chat in null to the same as WH space. people will just leave nullsec, rather go to a wormhole if they ever done that, more money and safer EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5242	Posted - 2015.03.26 14:38:50 - [175] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: People are still too scared like little childreen. Just rat in pairs.. or BE ON COMMS LIKE YOU ALL SHOULD, and the chance of dieing to a single cloak ship is small. The only real risk is that cloak ships opening a cyno/covert cyno. If the AFK ship is not from a large corp, just put that corp into your watch list and you will know when there is a chance of something like that happening. But if your group is not organized enough and on comms enough to listen to a call and arrive with 2-3 ships on the belt before anyone died, then the problem is on your group. The only ones that might die fast enough are miners, but just change to the tanky version of your mining ship and you will take a while to die as well to a single ship. Still some risk? YES, but not enourmous risk. When I lived in 0.0 I never stopped my activities because of an AFK cloaky ship, jsut made small adjustments, and NEVER EVER lost a ship. Dude, you are still missing the point entirely. Even if you are mitigating the risk, the fact that you have to take specific action due to the presence of another player is an effect they are having. IF they are to have that effect, they should not be able to be impervious to being attacked, and if they are AFK, they should find themselves rapidly getting dunked. How someone reacts to their presence, whether or not activities stop, and whether or not you want to insult them because you think you're somehow superior is irrelevant. At the end of the day, it's simple. If you are in space and you **** off to bed you should expect to wake up podded, no matter what activity you are taking part in. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12296	Posted - 2015.03.26 14:42:18 - [176] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Even if you are mitigating the risk, the fact that you have to take specific action due to the presence of another player is an effect they are having. The fact that you admit the behavior would be totally different if they didn't know the other guy was there thanks to local is really pretty damning. You know, unlike wormholers, who have to act like that all the time. That alone just goes to show what the true motivation behind all this is, and it's about as selfish as it could be. I can't wait until CCP disappoints you again. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5242	Posted - 2015.03.26 14:43:55 - [177] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: baltec1 wrote: Cant wait to hear the screams out outrage when CCP changes local chat in null to the same as WH space. people will just leave nullsec, rather go to a wormhole if they ever done that, more money and safer This. The majority of screams would be from the PvP players who would suddenly find there's no ratters to kill, since wormholes would be both safer and more lucrative, and anyone who wasn't interested in that would move to highsec. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12296	Posted - 2015.03.26 14:43:57 - [178] - Quote Here, I'll go ahead and counter your emphatic statement with one of my own. If you are out in space generating income, you should HAVE to act like there is always another player out to get you. There should not be any other option, no matter what part of space you live in. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5242	Posted - 2015.03.26 14:49:29 - [179] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Even if you are mitigating the risk, the fact that you have to take specific action due to the presence of another player is an effect they are having. The fact that you admit the behavior would be totally different if they didn't know the other guy was there thanks to local is really pretty damning. You know, unlike wormholers, who have to act like that all the time. I've never said that removing local wouldn't resolve this issue too, it would simply add other, more serious issues. Wormholes have mass limits, are difficult to locate specifically and have no force projection. Nullsec doesn't. The removal of local would fix afk cloaking but kill off null PvE and in turn null PvP. It's like suggesting a server wipe as a fix for RMT. Sure, it works as it removes the masses of gathered isk, but it causes other problems. Kaarous Aldurald wrote: That alone just goes to show what the true motivation behind all this is, and it's about as selfish as it could be. I can't wait until CCP disappoints you again. And what exactly is this selfish motivation? I selfishly want other players to have to interact with the game in order to play it? Such selfish. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5242	Posted - 2015.03.26 14:51:56 - [180] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Here, I'll go ahead and counter your emphatic statement with one of my own. If you are out in space generating income, you should HAVE to act like there is always another player out to get you. There should not be any other option, no matter what part of space you live in. I don't disagree, and currently there is no other option. The only players that can be undocked and mechanically safe are cloakers. Every other player has to act like there could be an incoming tackler at any minute and take precautions against that. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 8117	Posted - 2015.03.26 14:52:54 - [181] - Quote While I certainly take advantage of the fun to be had with AFK cloaking, I'm not going to have an episode if CCP comes up with a counter for it. There are plenty of other ways to disrupt systems now and there are many still to be worked out in the future. The clever people adapt and the entitled cry. So it has always been and so it will always be. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Josef Djugashvilis 2927	Posted - 2015.03.26 16:28:32 - [182] - Quote Lordy, this thread is still going. If CCP do nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. If CCP do not nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. My persoanl preference is to leave cloaking alone as it enables the little folk like my good self to have an economic impact on my enemies. A sort of David and Goliath scenario. That so many folk can be so scared of one ship amuses me no end. This is not a signature.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6497	Posted - 2015.03.26 16:53:39 - [183] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: If a highsec miner or hauler can't be AFK, then the nullsec hot dropper can't be AFK either. The "AFK" cloaker is not earning personal income via that mechanic. They're two totally different things. But hey, if you want to start that ball rolling, I'll go ahead. Mining lasers should not auto cycle. Quote: It's time for the griefing community to stop trying to gaslight the rest of us on this. Everybody who plays across the spectrum knows exactly what the arguments against a nerf to AFK cloaking really say. That comparing apples and oranges isn't appropriate, no matter how times people like you try? Look, I appreciate it that you keep trying, but you are not going to help your own cause with your mindless Church of HTFU dogma. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1162	Posted - 2015.03.26 19:16:40 - [184] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: baltec1 wrote: Cant wait to hear the screams out outrage when CCP changes local chat in null to the same as WH space. people will just leave nullsec, rather go to a wormhole if they ever done that, more money and safer +1 Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Lordy, this thread is still going. If CCP do nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. If CCP do not nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. My persoanl preference is to leave cloaking alone as it enables the little folk like my good self to have an economic impact on my enemies. A sort of David and Goliath scenario. That so many folk can be so scared of one ship amuses me no end. Trouble is that it is being used by whole coalitions to hot drop into every system and there is no way of digging that hot dropper out once they take root. They just sit there, day in and day out and pick off people in low time zones or newbies to Null. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
sabre906 Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing 1686	Posted - 2015.03.26 20:01:47 - [185] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Lordy, this thread is still going. If CCP do nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. If CCP do not nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. My persoanl preference is to leave cloaking alone as it enables the little folk like my good self to have an economic impact on my enemies. A sort of David and Goliath scenario. That so many folk can be so scared of one ship amuses me no end. There is no economic impact. Your enemies will just move one system over and farm there. The amount farmed is the same. Just check Dotlan for rat kill data, the total number stays the same. However, once new sov rolls around, it means you just moved system defense one system over, which is very significant. This is why CCP have to nerf it now of all times - because it's not compatible with new sov.
Mina Sebiestar Mactabilis Simplex Cursus 853	Posted - 2015.03.26 21:34:13 - [186] - Quote The sooner this happens the better. Afk in any shape and form is cancer and instant intel and afk combined is even more disgusting.
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2015.03.26 23:23:51 - [187] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: AFK cloaking should be nerfed just as soon as someone can show how an afk cloaker can hurt anyone. It's not about whether or not they are AFK. It's about not being able to hunt them. People want to hunt them. If they are stationary they should be findable, or even if they are moving while cloaked. Anyone is a system should be find-able given time.
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2015.03.26 23:27:54 - [188] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Lordy, this thread is still going. If CCP do nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. If CCP do not nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. My persoanl preference is to leave cloaking alone as it enables the little folk like my good self to have an economic impact on my enemies. A sort of David and Goliath scenario. That so many folk can be so scared of one ship amuses me no end. Yes, 1 person deserves to be able to shut down a system in low time zones. If you want to fight and you're active and dodging scans, fine, you should have no problem. AFK in space? You're dead like you should be, like everyone else.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1164	Posted - 2015.03.27 00:37:06 - [189] - Quote sabre906 wrote: There is no economic impact. Your enemies will just move one system over and farm there. . You haven't seen blanket AFK camping, have you? We worked out their staging system by backward calculating and basically triangulating where all their cyno alts could reach. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Josef Djugashvilis 2927	Posted - 2015.03.27 07:23:17 - [190] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Lordy, this thread is still going. If CCP do nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. If CCP do not nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. My persoanl preference is to leave cloaking alone as it enables the little folk like my good self to have an economic impact on my enemies. A sort of David and Goliath scenario. That so many folk can be so scared of one ship amuses me no end. Yes, 1 person deserves to be able to shut down a system in low time zones. If you want to fight and you're active and dodging scans, fine, you should have no problem. AFK in space? You're dead like you should be, like everyone else. I have never ever been afk and left a ship in space. I dock up even for bio breaks. But I do love scaring the bejasus out of folk with one ship. This is not a signature.
Trii Seo 725	Posted - 2015.03.27 07:40:51 - [191] - Quote Hey, if they remove local - AFK cloaking won't even be needed anymore. Viva la revolution!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5250	Posted - 2015.03.27 07:54:03 - [192] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: I have never ever been afk and left a ship in space. I dock up even for bio breaks. But I do love scaring the bejasus out of folk with one ship. Then that's fine, you'd be unaffected by the change since you would simply move and recloak. The point is that cloaking is good, cloaking is great, but the ability to remain completely safe while AFK in space is not. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5250	Posted - 2015.03.27 07:55:31 - [193] - Quote Trii Seo wrote: Hey, if they remove local - AFK cloaking won't even be needed anymore. Sure. I mean a lot of things wouldn't be needed since the vast majority of null players would move to wormholes or high sec and null would become a desolate wasteland covered with the tears of players looking for ratters to kill, but sure, AFK cloaking would be gone too. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1575	Posted - 2015.03.27 08:47:03 - [194] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Lordy, this thread is still going. If CCP do nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. If CCP do not nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. My persoanl preference is to leave cloaking alone as it enables the little folk like my good self to have an economic impact on my enemies. A sort of David and Goliath scenario. That so many folk can be so scared of one ship amuses me no end. Yes, 1 person deserves to be able to shut down a system in low time zones. If you want to fight and you're active and dodging scans, fine, you should have no problem. AFK in space? You're dead like you should be, like everyone else. I have never ever been afk and left a ship in space. I dock up even for bio breaks. But I do love scaring the bejasus out of folk with one ship. So you actuallyhave no ideas what these people talk about? And you are making touch comments? Great forum job The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 522	Posted - 2015.03.27 10:30:42 - [195] - Quote So.. this is where we've come to. It only took 11 years to reward people actually at the keyboard. This change in combination with the other structures promises great things. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 522	Posted - 2015.03.27 10:36:31 - [196] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Lordy, this thread is still going. If CCP do nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. If CCP do not nerf cloaking, some folk will complain. My persoanl preference is to leave cloaking alone as it enables the little folk like my good self to have an economic impact on my enemies. A sort of David and Goliath scenario. That so many folk can be so scared of one ship amuses me no end. Yes, 1 person deserves to be able to shut down a system in low time zones. If you want to fight and you're active and dodging scans, fine, you should have no problem. AFK in space? You're dead like you should be, like everyone else. The real issue has always been how people claim they should be entitled to an intel network is hostile territory without a credible threat of being rooted out and terminated as you would expect a nations counter-intelligence to do. This game which so claims to incorporate real life meta tactics has always made it mechanically impossible to reinforce at the nuts&bolts level. The notion that knowing about a spy and being unable to police it is credulous at best and I laugh at the abject idiots who defended this outmoded gameplay. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15529	Posted - 2015.03.27 12:23:33 - [197] - Quote Its funny how people pick up on the hint of an afk cloaking nerf while ignoring that there was also a hint at local chat intel nerf in the same announcement. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6499	Posted - 2015.03.27 18:07:32 - [198] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Its funny how people pick up on the hint of an afk cloaking nerf while ignoring that there was also a hint at local chat intel nerf in the same announcement. Local cuts both ways. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Myrradah Apotheosis of Caledvwich Dirt Nap Squad. 14	Posted - 2015.03.27 22:22:58 - [199] - Quote If it truly will only identify AFK cloakers, how do you all think CCP will do that? My guess is this - a window will appear stating you are being target / hunted by the intelligence array, you will need to move in order to not be detected. So in other words, if you are truly afk, yup, youll get caught, but if you are at the keyboard you shouldn't be decloaked. Im not afk.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1169	Posted - 2015.03.28 03:39:44 - [200] - Quote Trii Seo wrote: Hey, if they remove local - AFK cloaking won't even be needed anymore. Recons + D-scan immunity + mobile depot + cloak to evade probes baltec1 wrote: Its funny how people pick up on the hint of an afk cloaking nerf while ignoring that there was also a hint at local chat intel nerf in the same announcement. Worm Holes will be sweet heaven as you can't hot drop there. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Shaklu Caldari Provisions Caldari State 36	Posted - 2015.03.28 03:45:12 - [201] - Quote I like it. New stuff is cool, if it doesn't work then it doesn't work, but always fun to try it out!
Jenshae Chiroptera 1169	Posted - 2015.03.28 04:00:13 - [202] - Quote Shaklu wrote: I like it. New stuff is cool, if it doesn't work then it doesn't work, but always fun to try it out! Hang on, I have a new iron maiden and some vinegar. Want to try it out? CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15530	Posted - 2015.03.28 06:30:35 - [203] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Trii Seo wrote: Hey, if they remove local - AFK cloaking won't even be needed anymore. Recons + D-scan immunity + mobile depot + cloak to evade probes baltec1 wrote: Its funny how people pick up on the hint of an afk cloaking nerf while ignoring that there was also a hint at local chat intel nerf in the same announcement. Worm Holes will be sweet heaven as you can't hot drop there. Cant have one without the other. You people pushed and this is the end result, local intel tool is getting nerfed so you can hunt down something that wasn't an issue to start with. Just like with the freighter nerf people are going to get what they asked for along with everything else required to balance out the change.I feel another round of I told you so coming soon. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie Brawlers Inc. 1570	Posted - 2015.03.28 09:50:01 - [204] - Quote Wait, this is an extreme counter to cloaky forum posting. Eve will be ruined! New Player Placement Specialist and Scope Project FC. Contact me for a free consultation. BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5262	Posted - 2015.03.28 11:51:22 - [205] - Quote baltec1 wrote: You people pushed and this is the end result, local intel tool is getting nerfed so you can hunt down something that wasn't an issue to start with. Just like with the freighter nerf people are going to get what they asked for along with everything else required to balance out the change.I feel another round of I told you so coming soon. I'd be very surprised if they did push forward the local change. Null sec would empty out. The bulk of the people crying about it will be the ones flying system to system for hours on end and finding no PvE players to kill. To be honest I don't really care if they kill null with a change like that, since it will prove a point to all of the idiots that think PvE players would just hand themselves over to be farmed if the mechanics changed. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4373	Posted - 2015.03.28 11:59:52 - [206] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: You people pushed and this is the end result, local intel tool is getting nerfed so you can hunt down something that wasn't an issue to start with. Just like with the freighter nerf people are going to get what they asked for along with everything else required to balance out the change.I feel another round of I told you so coming soon. I'd be very surprised if they did push forward the local change. Null sec would empty out. The bulk of the people crying about it will be the ones flying system to system for hours on end and finding no PvE players to kill. To be honest I don't really care if they kill null with a change like that, since it will prove a point to all of the idiots that think PvE players would just hand themselves over to be farmed if the mechanics changed. isn't the usual attack 'you just want local to remain so you can kill pve players easier'? or was it 'you just want local to remain so you can pve with no risk, nullbear'? maybe it was 'you just want local to be removed to catalyse the summoning rituals of the dark lord' frankly human sacrifices work just fine in wormholes and there's no hotdrop there to interrupt long chanting sessions please explain how an afk player can summon an elder monstrosity from beyond reality
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12323	Posted - 2015.03.28 12:21:15 - [207] - Quote Benny, shh! Let them go on thinking it will end up being a net buff to safety, we have the potential Freighter nerf thead 2.0 going on here! "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15532	Posted - 2015.03.28 16:02:10 - [208] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: You people puse end result, local intel tool is getting nerfed so you can hunt down something that wasn't an issue to start with. Just like with the freighter nerf people are going to get what they asked for along with everything else required to balance out the change.I feel another round of I told you so coming soon. I'd be very surprised if they did push forward the local change. Null sec would empty out. The bulk of the people crying about it will be the ones flying system to system for hours on end and finding no PvE players to kill. To be honest I don't really care if they kill null with a change like that, since it will prove a point to all of the idiots that think PvE players would just hand themselves over to be farmed if the mechanics changed. Its going to happen when you get your nerf to afk cloaking, CCP have more or less admitted this. We did warn you. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Darren Airtex Born Imperialism 15	Posted - 2015.03.29 04:01:09 - [209] - Quote Things that make you go...............hhhhmmmmmm. I have used a cloak to find gate camps and send that information to the current roaming FW fleet. That information is then used by the FC to determine either to fight or go around.
AFK Cloaker Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2015.03.29 09:09:25 - [210] - Quote .
Pak Narhoo Splinter Foundation 1608	Posted - 2015.03.29 09:44:22 - [211] - Quote AFK Cloaker wrote: . Go away! You're not here! Go away! /me docks up
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5263	Posted - 2015.03.29 11:29:34 - [212] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: isn't the usual attack 'you just want local to remain so you can kill pve players easier'? or was it 'you just want local to remain so you can pve with no risk, nullbear'? maybe it was 'you just want local to be removed to catalyse the summoning rituals of the dark lord' frankly human sacrifices work just fine in wormholes and there's no hotdrop there to interrupt long chanting sessions please explain how an afk player can summon an elder monstrosity from beyond reality Quite honestly we can go on back and forthing over this ad infinitum with you screeching on about how AFK players do nothing. The fact is that if that were true, people wouldn't AFK cloak. You can act like you're ignorant of the facts all you want but that won't change them. And lol, keep comparing null to wormholes. If local were removed from null, there would be no point in not moving to a wormhole for better rewards and increased safety. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5263	Posted - 2015.03.29 11:32:50 - [213] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Its going to happen when you get your nerf to afk cloaking, CCP have more or less admitted this. We did warn you. Warn me? Why would you warn me? It will affect me to the sum of zero either way. The only reason I support the removal of AFK cloaking is because the ability to sit in space for hours AFK with 100% safety is ludicrous. As for PvE players which I imagine you were assuming me to be, why would they care? They can get just as much isk in highsec, and more in wormhole space and be safer in both cases than null without local. If local goes from null, so does the vast majority of the population, and the ones crying about it will be players who used to PvP there. But no, I don;t see it happening to be honest. CCP barely hinted at it, and speaking to the devs at fanfest there's absolutely nothing set in stone for it. I reckon they'd realise it will kill off null population and give it a miss. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Torviak Sandman Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.03.29 13:06:45 - [214] - Quote Dear ISD, please lock the thread, all I see is non constructive criticism aka ranting and lots of trolls logging in to comment on the issue.
Torviak Sandman Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.03.29 13:07:38 - [215] - Quote Torviak Sandman wrote: Dear ISD, please lock the thread, all I see is non constructive criticism aka ranting and lots of trolls logging in to comment on the issue. PS - lock thread due to violations...
Adriana Nolen Sama Guild 72	Posted - 2015.03.29 13:22:30 - [216] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: ...catalyse the summoning rituals of the dark lord' ....long chanting sessions ........ summon an elder monstrosity from beyond reality You made my day.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1173	Posted - 2015.03.29 13:54:14 - [217] - Quote CCP, "Null Sec is printing ISK!" Null Line Member, "Well, yes, it has the highest bounties so that is where ISK is generated" CCP, "Ah ha! So you are filthy rich!" Null Line Member, "No. The cost of living in Null is high and I have to keep buying things from High Sec." CCP, "Lies! Lies! We have our graphs!" Null Line Member, "Okay, so explain this to me then? Why do alliances find SRP programs such a huge help? Why are so many member 'risk adverse Null Bear'? Why is most of EVE bottled up in High Sec, most likely in NPC and teaching corps? If Null is such a heaven then why aren't more people pushing their way out into Null Sec?" CCP, "Null stagnation! Super capital blobs and Titans are keeping the status quo!" Null Line Member, "Surely people can join and then fragment portions of those coalitions away? What if you made a proper stepping stone from High Sec to Null Sec?" Fozzie Logic Low Sec 2.0, full of nerf bats coming to your Null Sec this summer! CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15535	Posted - 2015.03.29 18:02:45 - [218] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Its going to happen when you get your nerf to afk cloaking, CCP have more or less admitted this. We did warn you. Warn me? Why would you warn me? It will affect me to the sum of zero either way. The only reason I support the removal of AFK cloaking is because the ability to sit in space for hours AFK with 100% safety is ludicrous. As for PvE players which I imagine you were assuming me to be, why would they care? They can get just as much isk in highsec, and more in wormhole space and be safer in both cases than null without local. If local goes from null, so does the vast majority of the population, and the ones crying about it will be players who used to PvP there. But no, I don;t see it happening to be honest. CCP barely hinted at it, and speaking to the devs at fanfest there's absolutely nothing set in stone for it. I reckon they'd realise it will kill off null population and give it a miss. CCP hinted at it as much as they hinted at a nerf to AFK cloaking. They also gave me what I have been asking for for years, sov null mission agents. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4379	Posted - 2015.03.29 18:12:35 - [219] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Benny Ohu wrote: isn't the usual attack 'you just want local to remain so you can kill pve players easier'? or was it 'you just want local to remain so you can pve with no risk, nullbear'? maybe it was 'you just want local to be removed to catalyse the summoning rituals of the dark lord' frankly human sacrifices work just fine in wormholes and there's no hotdrop there to interrupt long chanting sessions please explain how an afk player can summon an elder monstrosity from beyond reality Quite honestly we can go on back and forthing over this ad infinitum with you screeching on about how AFK players do nothing. The fact is that if that were true, people wouldn't AFK cloak. You can act like you're ignorant of the facts all you want but that won't change them. And lol, keep comparing null to wormholes. If local were removed from null, there would be no point in not moving to a wormhole for better rewards and increased safety. the clue that i was not serious is the fact that you actually cannot breach the membrane between reality and the infinite madness beyond time in eve online i've got no wriggling wormbeast in this race
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 278	Posted - 2015.03.29 18:48:36 - [220] - Quote Darren Airtex wrote: Things that make you go...............hhhhmmmmmm. I have used a cloak to find gate camps and send that information to the current roaming FW fleet. That information is then used by the FC to determine either to fight or go around. this isnt what the intentions are, its the people who just build alts to use covops cloaks and just put them in dozens of systems for weeks on end, your not afk cloaking if you are actually using the tool strategically and moving around EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 2287	Posted - 2015.03.29 20:14:05 - [221] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: You people pushed and this is the end result, local intel tool is getting nerfed so you can hunt down something that wasn't an issue to start with. Just like with the freighter nerf people are going to get what they asked for along with everything else required to balance out the change.I feel another round of I told you so coming soon. I'd be very surprised if they did push forward the local change. Null sec would empty out. The bulk of the people crying about it will be the ones flying system to system for hours on end and finding no PvE players to kill. To be honest I don't really care if they kill null with a change like that, since it will prove a point to all of the idiots that think PvE players would just hand themselves over to be farmed if the mechanics changed. Why will null sec empty out? If anything the change will encourage PvE. Problem with PvE in null is players can instantly see you in local. A quick d-scan and they know exactly what you're flying. With nerf to local, as long as you shoot your wrecks regularly you'll blend in with the ships floating in POS so only the real hunter rather than the person travelling from a to b and seeing a non-blue in local and calling some friends, will be hunting you. Even if they see your ship on scan and realise its not in a pos (local knowledge), they're not instantly going to know you're neut or red and the majority of null sec players are lazy or in a rush to get somewhere so most won't bother. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5267	Posted - 2015.03.29 20:33:45 - [222] - Quote baltec1 wrote: CCP hinted at it as much as they hinted at a nerf to AFK cloaking. They also gave me what I have been asking for for years, sov null mission agents. Yeah, and in both cases is "take with a grain of salt", but realistically which is more likely to be something CCP pushes. I honestly can't see them nuking null even more my removing local. Forcing players to actually have to be active though, that's something I can see them doing. Infinity Ziona wrote: Why will null sec empty out? If anything the change will encourage PvE. Problem with PvE in null is players can instantly see you in local. A quick d-scan and they know exactly what you're flying. With nerf to local, as long as you shoot your wrecks regularly you'll blend in with the ships floating in POS so only the real hunter rather than the person travelling from a to b and seeing a non-blue in local and calling some friends, will be hunting you. Even if they see your ship on scan and realise its not in a pos (local knowledge), they're not instantly going to know you're neut or red and the majority of null sec players are lazy or in a rush to get somewhere so most won't bother. Without local people still know where you are. Spies aside, it's not a difficult task to figure out where in k space activity is occuring, especially when there is sov. If null didn't have local, it would effectively be wormhole space that's easy to navigate, with worse income, chance of escalation, no ability to be sealed and no ship class restrictions. Anyone that chose to PvE in null instead of just moving to a wormhole would be on crack. Why would you choose to be at more risk and earn less? The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 278	Posted - 2015.03.29 21:37:00 - [223] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: You people pushed and this is the end result, local intel tool is getting nerfed so you can hunt down something that wasn't an issue to start with. Just like with the freighter nerf people are going to get what they asked for along with everything else required to balance out the change.I feel another round of I told you so coming soon. I'd be very surprised if they did push forward the local change. Null sec would empty out. The bulk of the people crying about it will be the ones flying system to system for hours on end and finding no PvE players to kill. To be honest I don't really care if they kill null with a change like that, since it will prove a point to all of the idiots that think PvE players would just hand themselves over to be farmed if the mechanics changed. Why will null sec empty out? If anything the change will encourage PvE. Problem with PvE in null is players can instantly see you in local. A quick d-scan and they know exactly what you're flying. With nerf to local, as long as you shoot your wrecks regularly you'll blend in with the ships floating in POS so only the real hunter rather than the person travelling from a to b and seeing a non-blue in local and calling some friends, will be hunting you. Even if they see your ship on scan and realise its not in a pos (local knowledge), they're not instantly going to know you're neut or red and the majority of null sec players are lazy or in a rush to get somewhere so most won't bother. Shoot your wrecks? Are you actually being serious, nullsec will empty out because there is too much power in the hands of hotdroppers, removing local is nothing more than a huge buff to hotdroppers, as said wormholes make more isk and are safer because you cant cyno in blops and capitals, wormholes can be secured easily by rolling the hole before running sites, it wont encourage pve at all EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15536	Posted - 2015.03.30 03:49:35 - [224] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Yeah, and in both cases it's "take with a grain of salt", but realistically which is more likely to be something CCP pushes. I honestly can't see them nuking null even more my removing local. Forcing players to actually have to be active though, that's something I can see them doing. Cant have one without the other. Remove AFK cloaking without dealing with local and you wind up with the perfect intel tool that you cannot counter. If you want AFK cloaking nerfed then you have to deal with the other balance changes that would be needed. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 525	Posted - 2015.03.30 03:55:04 - [225] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Yeah, and in both cases it's "take with a grain of salt", but realistically which is more likely to be something CCP pushes. I honestly can't see them nuking null even more my removing local. Forcing players to actually have to be active though, that's something I can see them doing. Cant have one without the other. Remove AFK cloaking without dealing with local and you wind up with the perfect intel tool that you cannot counter. If you want AFK cloaking nerfed then you have to deal with the other balance changes that would be needed. It is nice to see them dealing with map intel such as average players in space etc. Nullsec intel should be a benefit for the space owners not merely anyone in the region. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5267	Posted - 2015.03.30 07:18:50 - [226] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Yeah, and in both cases it's "take with a grain of salt", but realistically which is more likely to be something CCP pushes. I honestly can't see them nuking null even more my removing local. Forcing players to actually have to be active though, that's something I can see them doing. Cant have one without the other. Remove AFK cloaking without dealing with local and you wind up with the perfect intel tool that you cannot counter. If you want AFK cloaking nerfed then you have to deal with the other balance changes that would be needed. Of course you can have one without the other. Not only did local exist pre AFK cloaking, but AFK cloaking isn't even a counter to local intel. That's something a random came up with a couple of years ago as an excuse for why local should be removed. If anything AFK cloaking is a counter to sov holding alliances who small groups can't fight - something which is already being dealt with. I can't see them puttign all this effort into changing null then going "oh and we're going to take away local too, just so noone bothers using our new system because all other space is better than null now". I doubt they'd put in the local change into null unless it came hand in hand with the removal of jumping and a massive increasing in the amount of rewards in null - two things I can't see happening also. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5267	Posted - 2015.03.30 07:20:31 - [227] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: It is nice to see them dealing with map intel such as average players in space etc. Nullsec intel should be a benefit for the space owners not merely anyone in the region. So intel should only be available to defenders, making it easier for defenders, harder for aggressors? That's pretty much the opposite of what CCP are pushing for with their sov changes. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15536	Posted - 2015.03.30 08:05:50 - [228] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Yeah, and in both cases it's "take with a grain of salt", but realistically which is more likely to be something CCP pushes. I honestly can't see them nuking null even more my removing local. Forcing players to actually have to be active though, that's something I can see them doing. Cant have one without the other. Remove AFK cloaking without dealing with local and you wind up with the perfect intel tool that you cannot counter. If you want AFK cloaking nerfed then you have to deal with the other balance changes that would be needed. Of course you can have one without the other. Not only did local exist pre AFK cloaking, but AFK cloaking isn't even a counter to local intel. That's something a random came up with a couple of years ago as an excuse for why local should be removed. If anything AFK cloaking is a counter to sov holding alliances who small groups can't fight - something which is already being dealt with. I can't see them puttign all this effort into changing null then going "oh and we're going to take away local too, just so noone bothers using our new system because all other space is better than null now". I doubt they'd put in the local change into null unless it came hand in hand with the removal of jumping and a massive increasing in the amount of rewards in null - two things I can't see happening also. AFK cloaking is the only way to mess with the intel from local. Yes, they will have to nerf local as there would be zero counters to it if they nerf afk cloacking. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6518	Posted - 2015.03.30 15:49:21 - [229] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: You people pushed and this is the end result, local intel tool is getting nerfed so you can hunt down something that wasn't an issue to start with. Just like with the freighter nerf people are going to get what they asked for along with everything else required to balance out the change.I feel another round of I told you so coming soon. I'd be very surprised if they did push forward the local change. Null sec would empty out. The bulk of the people crying about it will be the ones flying system to system for hours on end and finding no PvE players to kill. To be honest I don't really care if they kill null with a change like that, since it will prove a point to all of the idiots that think PvE players would just hand themselves over to be farmed if the mechanics changed. Why will null sec empty out? If anything the change will encourage PvE. Problem with PvE in null is players can instantly see you in local. A quick d-scan and they know exactly what you're flying. With nerf to local, as long as you shoot your wrecks regularly you'll blend in with the ships floating in POS so only the real hunter rather than the person travelling from a to b and seeing a non-blue in local and calling some friends, will be hunting you. Even if they see your ship on scan and realise its not in a pos (local knowledge), they're not instantly going to know you're neut or red and the majority of null sec players are lazy or in a rush to get somewhere so most won't bother. This is why I say local cuts both ways. Sure there's no way of instantly knowing who is in the system but an aggressor entering the system is not getting free and easy intel either. The removal of local also means that intel channels will have to actually be undocked and watching the gates. And I don't believe for a minute that the one player who is always logged into a system, alone, and never a ship to be found, is not running some bot program that simply monitors and responds to local. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10491	Posted - 2015.03.30 16:00:56 - [230] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: You people pushed and this is the end result, local intel tool is getting nerfed so you can hunt down something that wasn't an issue to start with. Just like with the freighter nerf people are going to get what they asked for along with everything else required to balance out the change.I feel another round of I told you so coming soon. I'd be very surprised if they did push forward the local change. Null sec would empty out. The bulk of the people crying about it will be the ones flying system to system for hours on end and finding no PvE players to kill. To be honest I don't really care if they kill null with a change like that, since it will prove a point to all of the idiots that think PvE players would just hand themselves over to be farmed if the mechanics changed. Why will null sec empty out? If anything the change will encourage PvE. Problem with PvE in null is players can instantly see you in local. A quick d-scan and they know exactly what you're flying. With nerf to local, as long as you shoot your wrecks regularly you'll blend in with the ships floating in POS so only the real hunter rather than the person travelling from a to b and seeing a non-blue in local and calling some friends, will be hunting you. Even if they see your ship on scan and realise its not in a pos (local knowledge), they're not instantly going to know you're neut or red and the majority of null sec players are lazy or in a rush to get somewhere so most won't bother. This is why I say local cuts both ways. Sure there's no way of instantly knowing who is in the system but an aggressor entering the system is not getting free and easy intel either. The removal of local also means that intel channels will have to actually be undocked and watching the gates. And I don't believe for a minute that the one player who is always logged into a system, alone, and never a ship to be found, is not running some bot program that simply monitors and responds to local. The problem with this line of thinking is that: A) as it stands right now, anomalies and belts (the main attractions of null sec pve) are warpable (no scanning required) And B) only a few of those sites or belts will hold anything worth killing, so the hunter knows that all he has to do is guess right or be swift on the d-scan and boom, kill And C) You can make just a good a living elsewhere in the game, so you don't NEED to be in null in the 1st place. End result, fewer people in null doing anoms (people would do signature sites but those are VERY limited). So this change that has the idea of making more fighting ends up making much less. Meanwhile people like me are making everyone loyalty points and 'blue loot made ships' less and else valuable as we farm that stuff to death. This discussion demonstrates that people never learn, even from their own history. Here is a perfect historical example of what happens when you make the null sec juice not worth a player's squeeze (and this was a change far below 'removing local' in magnitude. The incursion communities got real full real fast (as people shift pve alts to high sec) and wait lists looked like depression era bread lines. The overall point here is that for no local to work in null (and by work I mean "keep null a viable in game ecosystem that pvp and pve players want to play in"), you have to modify damn near everything else, cynos, the way sites work, the ways people keep themselves safe and the relative ease of wealth generation in places outside of null sec). In short, you'd be making a new game.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5268	Posted - 2015.03.30 20:31:37 - [231] - Quote baltec1 wrote: AFK cloaking is the only way to mess with the intel from local. Yes, they will have to nerf local as there would be zero counters to it if they nerf afk cloacking. CCP are doing a total overhaul of everything including intel gained from local. Rewards are being improved and with the evidence that will live in space with no local its clear to see the argument for keeping local intel chat is a hollow one. I look forwards to posting I told you so in many whine threads from the null bears. AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. The intel remains clear - there's a player in system - and the response is the same regardless of whether or not he is active. Local is one of those long standing mechanics which a small group hates but most of the game relies on. The tried without it with wormholes and it ended up being underused because it's simply no fun to get randomly attacked and lose everything you've been working on. I'm sure if they removed it a tiny group of players would exist in null shooting each other much like there is in wormhole space, but for the most part CCP would be shooting themselves in the face to nuke null in that way. If local does go it will have to be replaced by another skill or module based mechanic which does exactly the same thing that everyone can do with ease, making it a completely pointless change. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Baaldor Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 273	Posted - 2015.03.30 20:41:43 - [232] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: AFK cloaking is the only way to mess with the intel from local. Yes, they will have to nerf local as there would be zero counters to it if they nerf afk cloacking. CCP are doing a total overhaul of everything including intel gained from local. Rewards are being improved and with the evidence that will live in space with no local its clear to see the argument for keeping local intel chat is a hollow one. I look forwards to posting I told you so in many whine threads from the null bears. AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. The intel remains clear - there's a player in system - and the response is the same regardless of whether or not he is active. Local is one of those long standing mechanics which a small group hates but most of the game relies on. The tried without it with wormholes and it ended up being underused because it's simply no fun to get randomly attacked and lose everything you've been working on. I'm sure if they removed it a tiny group of players would exist in null shooting each other much like there is in wormhole space, but for the most part CCP would be shooting themselves in the face to nuke null in that way. If local does go it will have to be replaced by another skill or module based mechanic which does exactly the same thing that everyone can do with ease, making it a completely pointless change. Where do you get your information about a "tiny group" left in NULL. if we are talking strictly anecdotal? I can too say I have read many large alliance forums with a the jewbears cheering in unison for no local.
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy 685	Posted - 2015.03.30 21:07:08 - [233] - Quote Adriana Nolen wrote: Quote: E. Observatory arrays Dedicated to intelligence gathering. ...... be able to affect or pinpoint cloak users. .... Speechless extremely bad idea. -á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á- [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5269	Posted - 2015.03.30 21:33:24 - [234] - Quote Baaldor wrote: Where do you get your information about a "tiny group" left in NULL. if we are talking strictly anecdotal? I can too say I have read many large alliance forums with a the jewbears cheering in unison for no local. Lol, yeah, I'm sure you have, in favour of a POS based mechanic giving almost exactly local but only to defenders. I've read those ones too. Blanket removing local and turning into "unsealable, unrestricted, easily navigated wormholes with force projection" I've not seen that much support for, especially since the combat recons changes. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Shodan Of Citadel School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 14	Posted - 2015.03.30 23:10:55 - [235] - Quote Adriana Nolen wrote: Quote: E. Observatory arrays Dedicated to intelligence gathering. ...... be able to affect or pinpoint cloak users. .... Speechless Good, afk ones will die for being stupid sods. those actually at their screen will likely live. CCP doesn't seem to be doing anything that prevents cloaking for a certain period of time so keep ******* moving and recloak. This system will likely decloak everything in system and give locations of cloak fields they can warp to. Again... keep moving muppets.
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 2289	Posted - 2015.03.31 00:42:16 - [236] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: You people pushed and this is the end result, local intel tool is getting nerfed so you can hunt down something that wasn't an issue to start with. Just like with the freighter nerf people are going to get what they asked for along with everything else required to balance out the change.I feel another round of I told you so coming soon. I'd be very surprised if they did push forward the local change. Null sec would empty out. The bulk of the people crying about it will be the ones flying system to system for hours on end and finding no PvE players to kill. To be honest I don't really care if they kill null with a change like that, since it will prove a point to all of the idiots that think PvE players would just hand themselves over to be farmed if the mechanics changed. Why will null sec empty out? If anything the change will encourage PvE. Problem with PvE in null is players can instantly see you in local. A quick d-scan and they know exactly what you're flying. With nerf to local, as long as you shoot your wrecks regularly you'll blend in with the ships floating in POS so only the real hunter rather than the person travelling from a to b and seeing a non-blue in local and calling some friends, will be hunting you. Even if they see your ship on scan and realise its not in a pos (local knowledge), they're not instantly going to know you're neut or red and the majority of null sec players are lazy or in a rush to get somewhere so most won't bother. Shoot your wrecks? Are you actually being serious, nullsec will empty out because there is too much power in the hands of hotdroppers, removing local is nothing more than a huge buff to hotdroppers, as said wormholes make more isk and are safer because you cant cyno in blops and capitals, wormholes can be secured easily by rolling the hole before running sites, it wont encourage pve at all Of course you shoot you wrecks. Wrecks are instant intel to anyone with a dscan set to 360. They give away the follow: Your location, what ship you're flying, what npc's you're killing, whether you're in an anom, combat site or a belt. Sentries can one shot a wreck, only takes 30 seconds to clear them. Why would you give away all that intel? CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jenshae Chiroptera 1177	Posted - 2015.03.31 02:01:55 - [237] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: ... so only the real hunter rather than the person travelling from a to b and seeing a non-blue in local and calling some friends, will be hunting you. ... There is this thing called worm holes and they have ways around this. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Ilaister Absolutely Certain 170	Posted - 2015.03.31 02:21:24 - [238] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: as said wormholes make more isk and are safer because you cant cyno in blops and capitals, wormholes can be secured easily by rolling the hole before running sites Come on in and give it a try. You seem like the kind of person who would whine the moment your rolling capital was caught and felt up by a T3 gang that rolling holes is too much of a risk... but you never know.
Ilaister Absolutely Certain 170	Posted - 2015.03.31 02:23:17 - [239] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: ... so only the real hunter rather than the person travelling from a to b and seeing a non-blue in local and calling some friends, will be hunting you. ... There is this thing called worm holes and they have ways around this. What ways around this do we have nullbear?
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 565	Posted - 2015.03.31 04:36:45 - [240] - Quote Honestly the whining about AFK cloaking is absurd....just deal with it, the guy is probably at work playing minecraft.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5270	Posted - 2015.03.31 06:01:14 - [241] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: They know someone is ratting or in system with the map but that's all. Its unlikely alliance chat is going to be happy answering 100's of "is anyone in xxx system" every hour. Quite honestly that's not all, if you know null well you know exactly where people are doing PvE. The map stats and sov stats give it away more. Following the new changes sov will shrink a bit meaning it will be trivial to find an entire groups area of operation. Infinity Ziona wrote: Null is different from WH's not just in its inclusion of local. The lowest truesec is all soloable, officers included, which is not the case with the highest class wormholes. There's no worrying about the next system to you suddenly changing from happy carebears to hardcore pvpr's (new wormholes) on a regular basis. There's a consistent and reliable navigation system that doesn't change or collapse suddenly. The changing of navigation is a benefit in wormholes, it means that if someone wants to hunt you down specifically they need to find an entrance which isn't as simple as setting a route and following it. Navigating out of your wormhole is far easier than navigating into it, not to mention you can flip the static if you want a new location. And don't forget you can restrict what ships that hardcore PvP group can be in by the class of wormhole you live in, plus they have to come in from the wormholes which will collapse behind them if they bring in too much, while you can build whatever you want in the hole. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Leannor Caldari Provisions Caldari State 146	Posted - 2015.03.31 09:09:47 - [242] - Quote Arronicus wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Who cares if you could pinpoint them? As it is 9/10 people who complain about cloakers cant be arsed to undock anyways, so what does knowing the location of the possible hostile going to change? Now instead of "Go away cloaky bastard whos mother I totally had relations with last night!" being typed in local from the perfect safety of the station, it will be "Will someone please go take care of the cloaky that's somewhere within 50km of planet 3 for me because I wanna mine and he might be armed and have bad intentions!!!!!".. once again typed in local from the perfect safety of a station. And so the tears begin from those who aren't going to be able to harass anymore simply by sitting cloaked up. The only thing better than this change is the sporadic outbursts of tears from those upset to see it happening. Most people I know in null who complain about afk cloakers are VERY eager to be able to kill them after the change, so I have NO clue where you got your 9/10 stats from. Yup, nothing against genuine active cloaky campers, who are actively playing the game and using their cloak to good scary effect. but for those who wish to genuinely afk for 23/7 in an imicus, (or whatever ship), then, a way to nudge them out of cloak or find them using a specifici tool - lemmie at em. If it also means we can catch a cloaky in a snooze and fight him out? so be it. :) "Lykouleon wrote: STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 2290	Posted - 2015.03.31 09:35:31 - [243] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Honestly the whining about AFK cloaking is absurd....just deal with it, the guy is probably at work playing minecraft. The guy being at work playing minecraft is why its so dangerous. I'm talking from a position of being one of those cloakers. Not the kind that sits in an t1 frig. I'd sit in a ganky prot for 23 hours a day in a hub system sleeping, at work, doing whatever and every random interval, might be an hour or 2 days I'd check the belts, anoms and kill someone, then go afk for an indefinite period of time. This tactic gives you the ability to tie up an entire system, the randomness of the attacks defeat CTA, not ratting / mining, not hauling... basically the only option is to a) risk getting randomly ganked 23/7 or leave the entire system. I was just a single ship and I managed a 22/1 k/d. Imagine what someone with a cyno gen can do with the same tactics... actually you don't have to, check killboards and you'll find the perma-camping cyno alts with 1k/0 losses. There's no counter other than leaving system or setting a trap with your gang waiting anywhere from hours to days without sleep. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15538	Posted - 2015.03.31 10:34:58 - [244] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. It is the only way to mess with it. No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence. Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 282	Posted - 2015.03.31 10:41:46 - [245] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. It is the only way to mess with it. No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence. Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local. and whats the counter to afk cloaking, recons, blops, covert cynos if you remove local? EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 2765	Posted - 2015.03.31 10:44:36 - [246] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. It is the only way to mess with it. No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence. Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local. and whats the counter to afk cloaking, recons, blops, covert cynos if you remove local? And here is the double edge sword, if local counters those then what is to counter local, afk cloaking. Roleplaying Trinkets for Explorers and Collectors
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 282	Posted - 2015.03.31 10:46:33 - [247] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: Lan Wang wrote: baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. It is the only way to mess with it. No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence. Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local. and whats the counter to afk cloaking, recons, blops, covert cynos if you remove local? And here is the double edge sword, if local counters those then what is to counter local, afk cloaking. isnt the counter to local cynos which can instantly bridge in fleets of ships? its not like cloaky ships are inefficient EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Bagatur I School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 57	Posted - 2015.03.31 10:46:34 - [248] - Quote Kenneth Feld wrote: During the Sat morning event, Yitterbum made it sound like you could manually "pulse" the module like once an hour and it would decloak everything in system. he made it seem liek manual so you couldn't time it or anything. Then you had to probe stuff down manually If the cloaker is truly afk, easy kill, if they are not afk, they can cloak back up after the 30 sec timer and what if you are in a tight spot and need the cloak right there and then? that would drastically interfere with the gameplay of those who use cloak legitimately.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15538	Posted - 2015.03.31 10:47:17 - [249] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. It is the only way to mess with it. No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence. Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local. and whats the counter to afk cloaking, recons, blops, covert cynos if you remove local? or do you think its a good idea that people can remain 100% invisible with the option to drop 20k+ dps whenever they want? Im not asking for its removal. Both are tied together, remove one and you have to deal with the other. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15538	Posted - 2015.03.31 10:53:26 - [250] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: isnt the counter to local cynos which can instantly bridge in fleets of ships? its not like cloaky ships are inefficient How do you get the cyno ship into system without showing up in local? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Leannor Caldari Provisions Caldari State 146	Posted - 2015.03.31 10:58:30 - [251] - Quote Bagatur I wrote: Kenneth Feld wrote: During the Sat morning event, Yitterbum made it sound like you could manually "pulse" the module like once an hour and it would decloak everything in system. he made it seem liek manual so you couldn't time it or anything. Then you had to probe stuff down manually If the cloaker is truly afk, easy kill, if they are not afk, they can cloak back up after the 30 sec timer and what if you are in a tight spot and need the cloak right there and then? that would drastically interfere with the gameplay of those who use cloak legitimately. tbh no need for a timer, ... just a decloak. Genuine covert ops should be able to recloak instantly, if they're actually playing the game. This won't have any impact on a strategic cloaky ... just get safe at the pulse time, then get back. "Lykouleon wrote: STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 282	Posted - 2015.03.31 10:59:11 - [252] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Lan Wang wrote: isnt the counter to local cynos which can instantly bridge in fleets of ships? its not like cloaky ships are inefficient How do you get the cyno ship into system without showing up in local? well you show up in local which is what is needed, having a cyno ship invisible to everyone in system is just op, anything that delays or doesnt show in local is just too op especially when you have ships which are only visible via local. i also think decloaking every covops is a bad idea, you shouldnt be allowed to decloak everything in system which has a cloak they need to be scannable in some way to make it fair towards people who are genuinely playing. EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15538	Posted - 2015.03.31 11:00:49 - [253] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: well you show up in local which is what is needed, having a cyno ship invisible to everyone in system is just op, anything that delays or doesnt show in local is just too op especially when you have ships which are only visible via local Which means the cyno ship is not a counter to local. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 282	Posted - 2015.03.31 11:03:03 - [254] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Lan Wang wrote: well you show up in local which is what is needed, having a cyno ship invisible to everyone in system is just op, anything that delays or doesnt show in local is just too op especially when you have ships which are only visible via local Which means the cyno ship is not a counter to local. no but whatever is on the other end of the cyno is EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15538	Posted - 2015.03.31 11:06:00 - [255] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: no but whatever is on the other end of the cyno is Irrelevant, the cyno ship was spotted and there are no targets to drop on. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 282	Posted - 2015.03.31 11:10:27 - [256] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Lan Wang wrote: no but whatever is on the other end of the cyno is Irrelevant, the cyno ship was spotted and there are no targets to drop on. as said afk (if thats the right word) cloaking is not inefficient, they still get kills, take a look at confederation of pizza, they get tons of kills by placing cov ops cyno chars in dozens of systems, regardless if its the ratters ignorance or not the tactic still works well and the power to drop a fleet of high dps ships onto any target is enough without having to give any local restrictions EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15538	Posted - 2015.03.31 11:16:03 - [257] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: baltec1 wrote: Lan Wang wrote: no but whatever is on the other end of the cyno is Irrelevant, the cyno ship was spotted and there are no targets to drop on. as said afk (if thats the right word) cloaking is not inefficient, they still get kills, take a look at confederation of pizza, they get tons of kills by placing cov ops cyno chars in dozens of systems, regardless if its the ratters ignorance or not the tactic still works well and the power to drop a fleet of high dps ships onto any target is enough without having to give any local restrictions Which brings us nicely back to the fact that AFK cloaking is the only counter to local. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Jenshae Chiroptera 1178	Posted - 2015.03.31 12:55:27 - [258] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Cant have one without the other. Remove AFK cloaking without dealing with local and ... Wrong. Done right active cloaking is just as effective but requires some effort and intelligence. I praise the gods of average IQs that people do not see how to properly apply tactics and use weak / broken mechanics to completely break this game - yet. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6519	Posted - 2015.03.31 15:24:58 - [259] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Honestly the whining about AFK cloaking is absurd....just deal with it, the guy is probably at work playing minecraft. The guy being at work playing minecraft is why its so dangerous. I'm talking from a position of being one of those cloakers. Not the kind that sits in an t1 frig. I'd sit in a ganky prot for 23 hours a day in a hub system sleeping, at work, doing whatever and every random interval, might be an hour or 2 days I'd check the belts, anoms and kill someone, then go afk for an indefinite period of time. This tactic gives you the ability to tie up an entire system, the randomness of the attacks defeat CTA, not ratting / mining, not hauling... basically the only option is to a) risk getting randomly ganked 23/7 or leave the entire system. I was just a single ship and I managed a 22/1 k/d. Imagine what someone with a cyno gen can do with the same tactics... actually you don't have to, check killboards and you'll find the perma-camping cyno alts with 1k/0 losses. There's no counter other than leaving system or setting a trap with your gang waiting anywhere from hours to days without sleep. What you have described there is in fact a play style in and of itself. And I have seen some people do just that simply to do just that. Playing the game without playing the game. And the goons come in here trying to flip the argument into being about local. It's out of the Alinsky playbook. Bottom line is that indefinite AFK cloaking is bad for the game. Look at how it gets used and look at how "that one big organization" that can deal with it sells nullsec carebearing to the same kind of people they complain about who go carebearing elsewhere and don't join their large organization. All of the arguments are transparent. And the very people who have vile hatred of "bot aspirant" players who are AFK suddenly want to defend a playstyle that relies on being AFK. Are people this blind to their own folly? No wonder the world is going down the toilet. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Talvorian Dex Repercussus Goonswarm Federation 59	Posted - 2015.03.31 20:07:24 - [260] - Quote Adriana Nolen wrote: Quote: E. Observatory arrays Dedicated to intelligence gathering. ...... be able to affect or pinpoint cloak users. .... Speechless I love it. I only hope there's some trade-off so you can only have X number of "modifier" arrays deployed at one time. Then you do really have to make choices. Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5271	Posted - 2015.03.31 21:03:02 - [261] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. It is the only way to mess with it. No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence. Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local. But it's not a counter to local. It doesn't stop local working, it doesn't counter it's ability to detect new players. It uses local as a tool to counter PvE activity, that's all. And no, that's not all you can do. thousands of kills occur every single day without AFK cloakers being involved, so obviously there's other things that work. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Jenshae Chiroptera 1185	Posted - 2015.04.01 13:33:55 - [262] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: ... Bottom line is that indefinite AFK cloaking is bad for the game. Look at how it gets used and look at how "that one big organization" that can deal with it sells nullsec carebearing to the same kind of people they complain about who go carebearing elsewhere and don't join their large organization. All of the arguments are transparent. ... Are people this blind to their own folly? No wonder the world is going down the toilet. I concur. EVE could do with some target marketing (Ubuntu Software Center for Linux types, resource sites that coders and engineers call upon, et cetera) and a few more Darwin steps especially in the "end game" areas. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2015.04.01 15:49:11 - [263] - Quote Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time?
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15542	Posted - 2015.04.01 15:52:28 - [264] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. It is the only way to mess with it. No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence. Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local. But it's not a counter to local. It doesn't stop local working, it doesn't counter it's ability to detect new players. It uses local as a tool to counter PvE activity, that's all. And no, that's not all you can do. thousands of kills occur every single day without AFK cloakers being involved, so obviously there's other things that work. People being idiots is not a counter to local. Same way people being idiots was not a counter to remote doomsdays. AFK cloaking is currently the only way to get around being detected instantly in local and that only works if people chose to not organise a defence. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15542	Posted - 2015.04.01 15:53:49 - [265] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2015.04.01 15:56:22 - [266] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect? A station can be conquered if you never undock. N3 are realizing this right now. So again, why should you be able to go inactive in hostile space and expect invincibility?
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15543	Posted - 2015.04.01 15:59:31 - [267] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect? A station can be conquered if you never undock. I can force a fight by attempting to take the station. N3 are realizing this right now, are they not? So again, why should you be able to go inactive in hostile space and expect invincibility? Stations cannot be captured. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Ito Eto State War Academy Caldari State 16	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:01:21 - [268] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect? Why should people have a 100% accurate, instant, free, no effort, unavoidable intel tool? Pretty sure you can see them in the station guest list then, and have some idea of where they will be when they undock into your bubble camp. "Themepark" "Sandbox", these do not mean what you think they mean, EvE is as on rails as a freight train, and has as many attractions as Disneyland, but soundbites are easy, thinking is not.
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:01:51 - [269] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect? A station can be conquered if you never undock. I can force a fight by attempting to take the station. N3 are realizing this right now, are they not? So again, why should you be able to go inactive in hostile space and expect invincibility? Stations cannot be captured. I'm sorry, are you seriously complaining about NPC null, lowsec, and empire stations not being capturable?
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15543	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:05:23 - [270] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect? A station can be conquered if you never undock. I can force a fight by attempting to take the station. N3 are realizing this right now, are they not? So again, why should you be able to go inactive in hostile space and expect invincibility? Stations cannot be captured. I'm sorry, are you seriously complaining about NPC null, lowsec, and empire stations not being capturable? No, I am pointing out the stupidity in your argument. I can do the exact same thing as afk cloaking using stations. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15543	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:09:46 - [271] - Quote Ito Eto wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect? Why should people have a 100% accurate, instant, free, no effort, unavoidable intel tool? Pretty sure you can see them in the station guest list then, and have some idea of where they will be when they undock into your bubble camp. Which can only be done in null space and begs the question: I you would dedicate people to defending a system from someone docked why are you unwilling to do the exact same thing with an AFK cloaker? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:09:51 - [272] - Quote baltec1 wrote: No, I am pointing out the stupidity in your argument. I can do the exact same thing as afk cloaking using stations. They are not the same in the slightest. You know exactly where they are if they are in a station. You know the exact second they undock. The only stupidity in the argument is what you are exhibiting by comparing the two.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5271	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:14:01 - [273] - Quote baltec1 wrote: AFK cloaking is currently the only way to get around being detected instantly in local and that only works if people chose to not organise a defence. It doesn't get around it. People are still instantly detected even when there's an AFK cloaker in system. And if people organise a defense it's actually more effective, since you've now got a whole group of players not doing what they would normally be doing because you're in bed but logged on. baltec1 wrote: No, I am pointing out the stupidity in your argument. I can do the exact same thing as afk cloaking using stations. I will also point out that you ignored my second question. Actually it's not the same thing, since as has been stated multiple times including a few posts above, a docked player can be observed, his location is known and can be guarded. Once he's in that station he committed himself to that. If the station is camped he's out of luck. An AFK cloaker doesn't have that worry. baltec1 wrote: As to why we should be able to afk cloak. Its the only counter we have to local for our ships. It doesn't counter local. It's a guerrilla warfare tactic to attack PvE efficiency. Local remains just as it ever has whether there's an AFK cloaker or not. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 92	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:17:34 - [274] - Quote PvE efficiency. Carebears who want to play in nullsec, because it means more money ... ... but want it to be as safe as highsec, because they are cowards. Because the only thing that matters to them is their greed ... ... and the safety and isolation that allows them to fill their egos. PvE efficiency. "Please do not file support tickets to ask if your support ticket will be answered soon." - Actual Quote.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5271	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:17:48 - [275] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Which can only be done in null space and begs the question: I you would dedicate people to defending a system from someone docked why are you unwilling to do the exact same thing with an AFK cloaker? A docked player has only one point of exit and has to go through it to do anything and can be guarded by one person if they have the ship and skill to fight the docked player. An AFK cloaker can appear right next to any target they choose or can simply choose to leave. Short of a massive gatecamp and an enormous amount of luck, you're not going to stop him. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15543	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:18:33 - [276] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: No, I am pointing out the stupidity in your argument. I can do the exact same thing as afk cloaking using stations. They are not the same in the slightest. You know exactly where they are if they are in a station. You know the exact second they undock. The only stupidity in the argument is what you are exhibiting by comparing the two. So you dedicate someone to watching me 24/7? Not going to happen. You might know where I am but you are not going know when I am active or what ship is going to pop out, Im just a name in local and station. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:19:55 - [277] - Quote Eve Solecist wrote: PvE efficiency. Carebears who want to play in nullsec, because it means more money ... ... but want it to be as safe as highsec, because they are cowards. Because the only thing that matters to them is their greed ... ... and the safety and isolation that allows them to fill their egos. PvE efficiency. So only people who want to pick on those PvE's are allowed to have fun? Why don't you engage those fit to PvP? Right, you want to bad your board too :) I rat so I can buy PvP things. I don't rat just to see my wallet expend.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15543	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:21:20 - [278] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Which can only be done in null space and begs the question: I you would dedicate people to defending a system from someone docked why are you unwilling to do the exact same thing with an AFK cloaker? A docked player has only one point of exit and has to go through it to do anything and can be guarded by one person if they have the ship and skill to fight the docked player. An AFK cloaker can appear right next to any target they choose or can simply choose to leave. Short of a massive gatecamp and an enormous amount of luck, you're not going to stop him. You will with an organised defence. We do it day in day out. No, what you want is the ability to ensure a perfect safety net via local intel. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5271	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:22:08 - [279] - Quote Eve Solecist wrote: PvE efficiency. Carebears who want to play in nullsec, because it means more money ... ... but want it to be as safe as highsec, because they are cowards. PvE efficiency. That's not it at all. Null players have no problem with risk, what there's a problem with here is players who can retain 100% pure safety while away from their computer. If anyone's carebearing here it's the AFK cloakers telling everyone how entitled they are to their zero effort, 100% safe mechanic. If someone wants to actively stay in system threatening PvE players, that's no problem. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15543	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:25:24 - [280] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Eve Solecist wrote: PvE efficiency. Carebears who want to play in nullsec, because it means more money ... ... but want it to be as safe as highsec, because they are cowards. PvE efficiency. That's not it at all. Null players have no problem with risk, what there's a problem with here is players who can retain 100% pure safety while away from their computer. If anyone's carebearing here it's the AFK cloakers telling everyone how entitled they are to their zero effort, 100% safe mechanic. If someone wants to actively stay in system threatening PvE players, that's no problem. Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5273	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:26:08 - [281] - Quote baltec1 wrote: You will with an organised defence. We do it day in day out. You'll only kill a cloaker if he chooses to attack. A guy in station would have to leave his ship and clone behind to get out without getting killed. baltec1 wrote: No, what you want is the ability to ensure a perfect safety net via local intel. Wrong, perfect safety doesn't exist even with local in a system with no AFK cloakers. What I want is for people to actually have to play the ******* game if they want to have any effect on a system. I have no problem with active players running around threatening everyone, but the ability to dump alts into systems and chuck up some permanent 100% safety while completely AFK is just a terrible mechanic. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:26:25 - [282] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Which can only be done in null space and begs the question: I you would dedicate people to defending a system from someone docked why are you unwilling to do the exact same thing with an AFK cloaker? A docked player has only one point of exit and has to go through it to do anything and can be guarded by one person if they have the ship and skill to fight the docked player. An AFK cloaker can appear right next to any target they choose or can simply choose to leave. Short of a massive gatecamp and an enormous amount of luck, you're not going to stop him. You will with an organised defence. We do it day in day out. No, what you want is the ability to ensure a perfect safety net via local intel. Look at you still trying to compare AFK cloaking to being docked in a station. It's so cute!
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 94	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:26:51 - [283] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: Eve Solecist wrote: PvE efficiency. Carebears who want to play in nullsec, because it means more money ... ... but want it to be as safe as highsec, because they are cowards. Because the only thing that matters to them is their greed ... ... and the safety and isolation that allows them to fill their egos. PvE efficiency. So only people who want to pick on those PvE's are allowed to have fun? Why don't you engage those fit to PvP? Right, you want to bad your board too :) I don't participate in this. Your whole reply is built on the wrong idea that anyone is allowed to have fun, or allowed to do what he wants. It's not. If others don't let you, that's your problem. If people who PvE can't even follow the most basic rules and laws of the game, then they certainly aren't allowed to have fun. If you try to converse with the false belief that you deserve anything, then it makes sense that you assume you have ground to complain. Ignoring actual reality is much easier than accepting the facts, getting over yourself and stopping whining... I like threads like these. They give insight into how degenerated and disconnected people have become. So... thanks and go on. The fact that CCP does not like you "people" to play in absolute safety, as if nullsec was highsec ... is a good thing. "Please do not file support tickets to ask if your support ticket will be answered soon." - Actual Quote.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5273	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:28:01 - [284] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15543	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:29:03 - [285] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Which can only be done in null space and begs the question: I you would dedicate people to defending a system from someone docked why are you unwilling to do the exact same thing with an AFK cloaker? A docked player has only one point of exit and has to go through it to do anything and can be guarded by one person if they have the ship and skill to fight the docked player. An AFK cloaker can appear right next to any target they choose or can simply choose to leave. Short of a massive gatecamp and an enormous amount of luck, you're not going to stop him. You will with an organised defence. We do it day in day out. No, what you want is the ability to ensure a perfect safety net via local intel. Look at you still trying to compare AFK cloaking to being docked in a station. It's so cute! We shut down entire systems in the ice interdictions simply by having one flashy red docked in the station. Same result. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15543	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:30:34 - [286] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. You get the result you want by removing local. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12381	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:30:52 - [287] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. You're pushing for actively playing players... by advocating for something that removes the one barrier to completely free afk ratting in nullsec. Lol. You're advocating for naked, selfish self interest, exactly like in the ISBotter thread, be honest for once. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:34:50 - [288] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. You get the result you want by removing local. So you want WH space? Then go to WH space.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10526	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:34:53 - [289] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. That may be what you want, but many behind the "death to afk cloaking" campaign don't really want that. If you take away "afk cloaking" they will find a way to morph the argument to "I pay for/foguht for this system and should be able to rat in it without some cloaky guy dropping on me, Death to Cynos!!". If CCPs observation arrays have a decloaking feature like people are talking about, I'd bet you a large sum of Chribba secured isk (I'm talking 10s of millions of isk, perhaps enough to buy a whole Battlecruiser!) that this will happen. After CCP finalizes and announces their new structure scheme, if they do that anti afk cloaking thing I will be come back here to offer you that bet.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5273	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:39:41 - [290] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. You get the result you want by removing local. Indeed, I've agreed many times. Unfortunately the removal of local also has other effects, like emptying out null of PvE, since all other PvE would be lower risk, some for better rewards (such as wormholes). In the same way though, removing of cloaking altogether also fixes the AFK cloaking issue, does it not? The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5273	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:44:19 - [291] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: You're pushing for actively playing players... by advocating for something that removes the one barrier to completely free afk ratting in nullsec. Lol? "completely free afk ratting in nullsec" isn't really possible if you've got people actively flying about blowing you up. I'm guessing this was written in a hurry since it literally makes zero sense. Jenn aSide wrote: That may be what you want, but many behind the "death to afk cloaking" campaign don't really want that. If you take away "afk cloaking" they will find a way to morph the argument to "I pay for/foguht for this system and should be able to rat in it without some cloaky guy dropping on me, Death to Cynos!!". If CCPs observation arrays have a decloaking feature like people are talking about, I'd bet you a large sum of Chribba secured isk (I'm talking 10s of millions of isk, perhaps enough to buy a whole Battlecruiser!) that this will happen. After CCP finalizes and announces their new structure scheme, if they do that anti afk cloaking thing I will be come back here to offer you that bet. That would be called a slippery slide. I'm sure just like in everything people will always whine for more and more changes, but that doesn't mean no changes should ever be made just because someone might whine about something else later. AFK cloaking is a completely safe completely AFK activity, and that's bad in my books and should go. If later someone then whines that cynos can go you can expect a swift "HTFU" from me. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15543	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:50:17 - [292] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. You get the result you want by removing local. So you want WH space? Then go to WH space. If you want risk free pve go to highsec Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5273	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:51:57 - [293] - Quote baltec1 wrote: If you want risk free pve go to highsec We're not asking for risk free PvE, we're asking for risk to be added to AFK meta PvP. I guarantee that if AFK cloaking stopped existing tomorrow, thousands of players would continue to die every day in null. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15543	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:53:10 - [294] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. You get the result you want by removing local. Indeed, I've agreed many times. Unfortunately the removal of local also has other effects, like emptying out null of PvE, since all other PvE would be lower risk, some for better rewards (such as wormholes). In the same way though, removing of cloaking altogether also fixes the AFK cloaking issue, does it not? That results in an uncounterable safety net that would be unbalanced. If you want afk cloaking gone then local intel needs to go too. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15543	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:55:03 - [295] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: If you want risk free pve go to highsec We're not asking for risk free PvE. Thats exactly what you get when you remove afk cloaking. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12382	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:57:23 - [296] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: [We're not asking for risk free PvE Yeah, that's exactly what you're asking for, the rest is a smokescreen. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 8205	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:03:48 - [297] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: [We're not asking for risk free PvE Yeah, that's exactly what you're asking for, the rest is a smokescreen. I fail to see why you're so agitated over this. It's not like it will affect your risk free PVP in any way. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5277	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:08:41 - [298] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. You get the result you want by removing local. Indeed, I've agreed many times. Unfortunately the removal of local also has other effects, like emptying out null of PvE, since all other PvE would be lower risk, some for better rewards (such as wormholes). In the same way though, removing of cloaking altogether also fixes the AFK cloaking issue, does it not? That results in an uncounterable safety net that would be unbalanced. If you want afk cloaking gone then local intel needs to go too. No it doesn't lol. Removing AFK cloaking or even cloaking as a whole doesn't result in total safety. And no, they certainly don't need to go together. There's been numerous ideas to tackle AFK cloaking without affecting active cloakers or local, and those are the ideas I support. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5277	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:10:35 - [299] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: If you want risk free pve go to highsec We're not asking for risk free PvE. Thats exactly what you get when you remove afk cloaking. Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: [We're not asking for risk free PvE Yeah, that's exactly what you're asking for, the rest is a smokescreen. lol, bad trolls are bad. So you are saying AFK cloakers are the only risk to PvE players? Interesting. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6525	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:11:21 - [300] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. You get the result you want by removing local. So you want WH space? Then go to WH space. If you want risk free pve go to highsec Most of the PVPers in highsec are there for the lack of risk too. I've seen some very expensive goon loss mails in nullsec and lo and behold the player pops up in the Niarja-Uedama pipe looking for an easy target next day. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:13:14 - [301] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. You're pushing for actively playing players... by advocating for something that removes the one barrier to completely free afk ratting in nullsec. Lol. You're advocating for naked, selfish self interest, exactly like in the ISBotter thread, be honest for once. Hundreds and hundreds of people lose ships ratting/mining every day to people just roaming through with a ceptor scout. Stop with the bull, seriously.
Kenneth Endashi Atomic Pharmaceuticals 52	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:20:30 - [302] - Quote I was docked in a station Where I thought I was safe, Where oft I felt no hesitation. What a magnificent place. Meanwhile, outside, a tempest stirred. Plus one in local, what could it be? D-scan, nay, a pilot obscured. That she was cloaked, I could plainly see. Before this spectre occurred, The system was pure. Before distinctions were blurred, Of that I was sure! Now I sit in contempt and full fraught, Hating that what I may never know. Perhaps this game is worse than I thought. Perhaps it is better AFK cloaking be not.
Dictateur Imperator Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 21	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:20:32 - [303] - Quote Why remove not aft lacking, but clocking immunity from the game. A) "Afk cloacking" : -Make moral harassment : just illegal in my country in real life, if i want i can go in justice against CCP if they don't kick a perma clocker who i can proof he make this to make moral harassment (read forum easy to have proof). -No counter mesure -Get pvp without tae any risk for pvp player, you can be aft or not attack when you want. You are risk free. ( and active pve player is NEVER risk free for exemple). B) Normal cloacking: -More strategical battle if your bomber wing must move and don't just wait 2 H in a point for an enemy fleet coming. More dynamic battle you know ? C) More content: - Kill clocker who don't move provide content. Don't play in a system because one people can't be kill and can kill you is just... destroying content. D)Local issue: - Local or not : You can't be decloack so people can know you ar here and can't kill you. You are just free risk. Let's do end this remove perma clocking, let people kill you. Risk VS reward : You want good kill mail ? Ok take more risk , for the moment you are risk free. - AFK cloacking is counter mesure to perfect intel/risk free for pve/other argument like this : In 0.0 the people who attack have all advantage ; you have free intel by a lot of website about mining in system, farming in system so you know where it's active before go in this system. You have free intel about number of target when you enter on the system by local (so local is not only help for people who far, but for rammer to). In fact the true counter of perfect intel of the local is ... you have intel without be in the system you to with farming/mining information. Conclusion: Nerf cloacking will create more content in the game. Remove perma clocking, and you create more strategical battle, more interesting things,ect...
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:20:47 - [304] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. You get the result you want by removing local. So you want WH space? Then go to WH space. If you want risk free pve go to highsec You're so adorable! I'm not asking for "risk free pve" I'm asking for a way to hunt those who's only goal is to grief those while cloaked and AFK. If they are ACTIVE then the can avoid being found. That is what is being asked for. You on the other hand have some really weird concept of what people are asking for. Hundreds and hundreds of ratters/miners die every day in null to things other than those who camp systems in cloakers and are AFK most of the time and come out once in a while. It's not fair to those who are in the wrong time zones for their alliance especially. You may not be exposed to such issues because you're in a 30k pilot alliance and are blind to it so I forgive you for your complete and utter ignorance.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15544	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:42:49 - [305] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. You're pushing for actively playing players... by advocating for something that removes the one barrier to completely free afk ratting in nullsec. Lol. You're advocating for naked, selfish self interest, exactly like in the ISBotter thread, be honest for once. Hundreds and hundreds of people lose ships ratting/mining every day to people just roaming through with a ceptor scout. Stop with the bull, seriously. Stupidity of afk ratters is not a valid argument. you will never catch an aleart ratter thanks to the fact that you show up in local the second you enter the system. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 282	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:50:25 - [306] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. You're pushing for actively playing players... by advocating for something that removes the one barrier to completely free afk ratting in nullsec. Lol. You're advocating for naked, selfish self interest, exactly like in the ISBotter thread, be honest for once. Hundreds and hundreds of people lose ships ratting/mining every day to people just roaming through with a ceptor scout. Stop with the bull, seriously. Stupidity of afk ratters is not a valid argument. you will never catch an aleart ratter thanks to the fact that you show up in local the second you enter the system. Not true active ratters lose ships all the tine to hotdroppers that have been in system for long periods of time, pizza have very good success with it EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12384	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:52:27 - [307] - Quote "removing a source of risk in nullsec without compensation is fine, because the afk people will still occasionally die to interceptors!" "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:52:47 - [308] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them. People already can avoid any attempt at PvP on them, often unsuccessfully. Even if AFK cloakers didn't exist, that would be no different. Again, what I'm pushing for is actively playing players, that's all. It's not a new concept. You're pushing for actively playing players... by advocating for something that removes the one barrier to completely free afk ratting in nullsec. Lol. You're advocating for naked, selfish self interest, exactly like in the ISBotter thread, be honest for once. Hundreds and hundreds of people lose ships ratting/mining every day to people just roaming through with a ceptor scout. Stop with the bull, seriously. Stupidity of afk ratters is not a valid argument. you will never catch an aleart ratter thanks to the fact that you show up in local the second you enter the system. Why, because you say it's not? LOL. A ceptor can tackle someone in just a few seconds upon entering a system, not everything can align and warp in those few seconds. It happens EVERY DAY, HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of times. I feel sorry for you IRL :(
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:55:23 - [309] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: "removing a source of risk in nullsec without compensation is fine, because the afk people will still occasionally die to interceptors!" Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times a day = "occasionally" now. You're so cute :)
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15544	Posted - 2015.04.01 18:00:15 - [310] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Not true active ratters lose ships all the tine to hotdroppers that have been in system for long periods of time, pizza have very good success with it Which would end when you remove the tool they use. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 282	Posted - 2015.04.01 18:02:04 - [311] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: "removing a source of risk in nullsec without compensation is fine, because the afk people will still occasionally die to interceptors!" Your adding risk not removing it EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15544	Posted - 2015.04.01 18:04:38 - [312] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: Why, because you say it's not? LOL. A ceptor can tackle someone in just a few seconds upon entering a system, not everything can align and warp in those few seconds. It happens EVERY DAY, HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of times. I feel sorry for you IRL :( They tacle afk ratters every day. You have more than enough time to get a capital out of the anom before they can finish d-scanning it down. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 283	Posted - 2015.04.01 18:07:09 - [313] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Why, because you say it's not? LOL. A ceptor can tackle someone in just a few seconds upon entering a system, not everything can align and warp in those few seconds. It happens EVERY DAY, HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of times. I feel sorry for you IRL :( They tacle afk ratters every day. You have more than enough time to get a capital out of the anom before they can finish d-scanning it down. Shotgun ceptor fleets will land on grid before a capital manages to warp, and it happens all the time to mining barges EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2015.04.01 18:11:24 - [314] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Why, because you say it's not? LOL. A ceptor can tackle someone in just a few seconds upon entering a system, not everything can align and warp in those few seconds. It happens EVERY DAY, HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of times. I feel sorry for you IRL :( They tacle afk ratters every day. You have more than enough time to get a capital out of the anom before they can finish d-scanning it down. Then why do things other than captials also get tackled hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times a day? Because they are "stupid"? Should that matter? Yes, AFK people who are ratting die all the time, why shouldn't AFK cloakers also die all the time?
Dictateur Imperator Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 21	Posted - 2015.04.01 18:12:38 - [315] - Quote Just for information: Local remove rumor come from fuzzy interview , in the same interview he saids "no new structure, and never nerf cloaking". So maybe local will stay. To b continue about nerf of colloquy ship : No counter to cloac actually, after you have a counter. Just a normal change in a game.
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2015.04.01 18:19:27 - [316] - Quote Dictateur Imperator wrote: Just for information: Local remove rumor come from fuzzy interview , in the same interview he saids "no new structure, and never nerf cloaking". So maybe local will stay. To be continue about nerf of colloquy ship : No counter to cloac actually, after you have a counter. Just a normal change in a game. He said cloaking will never be nerfed, not AFK'ing.
Dictateur Imperator Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 21	Posted - 2015.04.01 18:21:29 - [317] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: Dictateur Imperator wrote: Just for information: Local remove rumor come from fuzzy interview , in the same interview he saids "no new structure, and never nerf cloaking". So maybe local will stay. To be continue about nerf of colloquy ship : No counter to cloac actually, after you have a counter. Just a normal change in a game. He said cloaking will never be nerfed, not AFK'ing. He said no new structure to. In fact : all this interveiw is Fozie point of view, not CCP point of view. So maybe local never be removed in null (or maybe we have local with observatory). In all case people can trap ship without aft clocking. They just must use brain.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15547	Posted - 2015.04.01 19:14:05 - [318] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Why, because you say it's not? LOL. A ceptor can tackle someone in just a few seconds upon entering a system, not everything can align and warp in those few seconds. It happens EVERY DAY, HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of times. I feel sorry for you IRL :( They tacle afk ratters every day. You have more than enough time to get a capital out of the anom before they can finish d-scanning it down. Then why do things other than captials also get tackled hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times a day? Because they are "stupid"? Should that matter? Yes, AFK people who are ratting die all the time, why shouldn't AFK cloakers also die all the time? You really enjoy shooting yourself in the foot don't you? Im fine with afk cloaking being nerfed, but to get that you have to deal with the imbalance it would cause. If you want afk cloaking gone you have to deal with losing your local intel tool. This is the exact same kind of argument we had with the people who wanted fittings on freighters. They also thought they would get nothing but a buff with their demand. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 8208	Posted - 2015.04.01 19:27:52 - [319] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Im fine with afk cloaking being nerfed, but to get that you have to deal with the imbalance it would cause. If you want afk cloaking gone you have to deal with losing your local intel tool. No, you really don't have to lose local at all (though I'm fine with it, to be honest). That's just your drama queen mantra du jour. Losing local is just one of many ways it could be balanced. When all your posts are of the crying wolf variety, people just roll there eyes and ignore you. Except to post just to rile you up. Because lets face it, you're pretty funny when you go off the deep end like this. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 284	Posted - 2015.04.01 19:46:33 - [320] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Why, because you say it's not? LOL. A ceptor can tackle someone in just a few seconds upon entering a system, not everything can align and warp in those few seconds. It happens EVERY DAY, HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of times. I feel sorry for you IRL :( They tacle afk ratters every day. You have more than enough time to get a capital out of the anom before they can finish d-scanning it down. Then why do things other than captials also get tackled hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times a day? Because they are "stupid"? Should that matter? Yes, AFK people who are ratting die all the time, why shouldn't AFK cloakers also die all the time? You really enjoy shooting yourself in the foot don't you? Im fine with afk cloaking being nerfed, but to get that you have to deal with the imbalance it would cause. If you want afk cloaking gone you have to deal with losing your local intel tool. This is the exact same kind of argument we had with the people who wanted fittings on freighters. They also thought they would get nothing but a buff with their demand. Lose local and it causes a balance issue with cynos and recons being able to drop fleets, recons will make people 100% invisible without local and still have the power to drop massive dps fleets without anyone even knowing, you make null a stupid place to live unless you are selfsufficient with highsec alts for carebearing EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2015.04.01 20:37:40 - [321] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Why, because you say it's not? LOL. A ceptor can tackle someone in just a few seconds upon entering a system, not everything can align and warp in those few seconds. It happens EVERY DAY, HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of times. I feel sorry for you IRL :( They tacle afk ratters every day. You have more than enough time to get a capital out of the anom before they can finish d-scanning it down. Then why do things other than captials also get tackled hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times a day? Because they are "stupid"? Should that matter? Yes, AFK people who are ratting die all the time, why shouldn't AFK cloakers also die all the time? You really enjoy shooting yourself in the foot don't you? Im fine with afk cloaking being nerfed, but to get that you have to deal with the imbalance it would cause. If you want afk cloaking gone you have to deal with losing your local intel tool. This is the exact same kind of argument we had with the people who wanted fittings on freighters. They also thought they would get nothing but a buff with their demand. The only thing that MIGHT, MIGHT need to change is appearing in local before breaking your initial gate cloak. I think that MIGHT be acceptable, but 0.0 is balanced around having a local. If you don't want local then go to WH space where CCP designed the entire risk vs reward around having no local. 0.0 was not designed to have no local, they would have to completely rebalance the entire risk vs reward to that of WH levels, but they won't, so move your happy "I want no local" ass to WH space where you can have all the "no local" you can handle.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15547	Posted - 2015.04.01 21:03:41 - [322] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Why, because you say it's not? LOL. A ceptor can tackle someone in just a few seconds upon entering a system, not everything can align and warp in those few seconds. It happens EVERY DAY, HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of times. I feel sorry for you IRL :( They tacle afk ratters every day. You have more than enough time to get a capital out of the anom before they can finish d-scanning it down. Then why do things other than captials also get tackled hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times a day? Because they are "stupid"? Should that matter? Yes, AFK people who are ratting die all the time, why shouldn't AFK cloakers also die all the time? You really enjoy shooting yourself in the foot don't you? Im fine with afk cloaking being nerfed, but to get that you have to deal with the imbalance it would cause. If you want afk cloaking gone you have to deal with losing your local intel tool. This is the exact same kind of argument we had with the people who wanted fittings on freighters. They also thought they would get nothing but a buff with their demand. Lose local and it causes a balance issue with cynos and recons being able to drop fleets, recons will make people 100% invisible without local and still have the power to drop massive dps fleets without anyone even knowing, you make null a stupid place to live unless you are selfsufficient with highsec alts for carebearing All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2015.04.01 21:11:22 - [323] - Quote baltec1 wrote: All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it. Hahaha. So delusional.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15547	Posted - 2015.04.01 21:27:00 - [324] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it. Hahaha. So delusional. Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
sabre906 Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing 1689	Posted - 2015.04.01 22:49:23 - [325] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it. Hahaha. So delusional. Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up. When was the last time Bomber Bar blapped a goonie carrier in 15 seconds flat? Oh that's right, yesterday. Wh space is not only hotdrop proof, the isk in it is vastly higher than any max upgraded -1.0 truesec system (unless you count in moon goo), and there's no sov bills or sov wars. Why would anyone in their right mind live in a wh system that has gates, hotdrops, sov bills, and far lower isk? In order to convince anyone to live in such a place, rewards will have to be set so high it may as well screw up Eve.
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 2294	Posted - 2015.04.01 23:06:08 - [326] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: baltec1 wrote: You will with an organised defence. We do it day in day out. You'll only kill a cloaker if he chooses to attack. A guy in station would have to leave his ship and clone behind to get out without getting killed. baltec1 wrote: No, what you want is the ability to ensure a perfect safety net via local intel. Wrong, perfect safety doesn't exist even with local in a system with no AFK cloakers. What I want is for people to actually have to play the ***** game if they want to have any effect on a system. I have no problem with active players running around threatening everyone, but the ability to dump alts into systems and chuck up some permanent 100% safety while completely AFK is just a terrible mechanic. Baltecs argument is ironic. Give perma-afk cloakies cyno dropper can scout out targets first its pretty rare you will lose anything, moreso given the overkill usually dropped on a target. I've seen fleets with capitals dropped on single BS, worst I saw was a fleet of at least 100+ mainly tengu's dropped on a 6 man gate camp. Pretty much why they don't want cloakies touched, risk increases from virtually 0 to a couple of % if people know you're actually playing the game. CCP Fozzie** GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15547	Posted - 2015.04.02 08:59:32 - [327] - Quote sabre906 wrote: When was the last time Bomber Bar blapped a goonie carrier in 15 seconds flat? Oh that's right, yesterday. An AFK carrier not fitted for fighting. sabre906 wrote: Wh space is not only hotdrop proof, the isk in it is vastly higher than any max upgraded -1.0 truesec system (unless you count in moon goo), and there's no sov bills or sov wars. Why would anyone in their right mind live in a wh system that has gates, hotdrops, sov bills, and far lower isk? In order to convince anyone to live in such a place, rewards will have to be set so high it may as well screw up Eve. You may have missed it but CCP have announced that the rewards in nullsec are indeed getting revamped. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 123	Posted - 2015.04.02 09:14:33 - [328] - Quote baltec1 wrote: sabre906 wrote: When was the last time Bomber Bar blapped a goonie carrier in 15 seconds flat? Oh that's right, yesterday. An AFK carrier not fitted for fighting. sabre906 wrote: Wh space is not only hotdrop proof, the isk in it is vastly higher than any max upgraded -1.0 truesec system (unless you count in moon goo), and there's no sov bills or sov wars. Why would anyone in their right mind live in a wh system that has gates, hotdrops, sov bills, and far lower isk? In order to convince anyone to live in such a place, rewards will have to be set so high it may as well screw up Eve. You may have missed it but CCP have announced that the rewards in nullsec are indeed getting revamped. You can have all the highsec miners for the revamped ore. No one else wants them. "Please do not file support tickets to ask if your support ticket will be answered soon." - Actual Quote.
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1580	Posted - 2015.04.02 09:16:57 - [329] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it. Hahaha. So delusional. Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up. I cannot talk about current 0.0 but back in 2011 we in DroneLand were VERY AWARE of group of 9-13 people who were dropping solo ratters with up to 12 blackops.... And if you say that your 12 blackops are nothing.... The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15547	Posted - 2015.04.02 10:56:42 - [330] - Quote March rabbit wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it. Hahaha. So delusional. Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up. I cannot talk about current 0.0 but back in 2011 we in DroneLand were VERY AWARE of group of 9-13 people who were dropping solo ratters with up to 12 blackops.... And if you say that your 12 blackops are nothing.... They arn't when you dump 12-30 carriers on them. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 2297	Posted - 2015.04.02 20:16:42 - [331] - Quote baltec1 wrote: March rabbit wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it. Hahaha. So delusional. Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up. I cannot talk about current 0.0 but back in 2011 we in DroneLand were VERY AWARE of group of 9-13 people who were dropping solo ratters with up to 12 blackops.... And if you say that your 12 blackops are nothing.... They arn't when you dump 12-30 carriers on them. Problem with dumping 12-30 carriers is timing. Scenario - 1 cov ops perma cloaked in system, been there a few weeks (most droppers will have multiple of these all around regions they operate in). See's target. No one in system. CTA - dweebs log off their high sec mission running accounts, log on their blops characters, drop the target, jump out, log out. There's no way to preempt them unless you have guys perma-ready to counter drop on the off chance the afk will go active the next time. You know this baltec... CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jenshae Chiroptera 1202	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:00:38 - [332] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Cant have one without the other. . CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15547	Posted - 2015.04.03 03:13:16 - [333] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Problem with dumping 12-30 carriers is timing. Scenario - 1 cov ops perma cloaked in system, been there a few weeks (most droppers will have multiple of these all around regions they operate in). See's target. No one in system. CTA - dweebs log off their high sec mission running accounts, log on their blops characters, drop the target, jump out, log out. There's no way to preempt them unless you have guys perma-ready to counter drop on the off chance the afk will go active the next time. You know this baltec... You have an entire region of people out flying ratting carriers, all you need is a cyno of your own and some organisation. Responce time is damn near instant. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3762	Posted - 2015.04.03 07:36:21 - [334] - Quote I'm no 0.0 expert, but maybe there should be ways to protect backwater systems for mining. For example, disabling stargates to non-alliance members. To get in, you would need an entosis for a few minutes, maybe in the prime time window. That could maybe create a reasonable mechanic to secure and have a decent chance to defend space. If someone manages to get in, either through stealth or guns-a-blazing, then you just lost your safe haven. Interesting new mechanic, maybe? IRL, fighters fight on the frontlines to protect the civilians creating wealth in the backlines. In current EVE, protecting miners from ninja attacks requires way too much (boring) effort to be viable, from what I understand of 0.0 industrial gameplay. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2015.04.03 13:09:07 - [335] - Quote baltec1 wrote: March rabbit wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it. Hahaha. So delusional. Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up. I cannot talk about current 0.0 but back in 2011 we in DroneLand were VERY AWARE of group of 9-13 people who were dropping solo ratters with up to 12 blackops.... And if you say that your 12 blackops are nothing.... They arn't when you dump 12-30 carriers on them. Yes because smaller entities always have the numbers on for 12-30 carriers at the sound of a ping in their off time zone. As I said, you're ignorant to the problem because you personally don't have the problem being in a 30k man alliance that's part of a how many thousands of player coalition?
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15548	Posted - 2015.04.03 13:15:36 - [336] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: Yes because smaller entities always have the numbers on for 12-30 carriers at the sound of a ping in their off time zone. As I said, you're ignorant to the problem because you personally don't have the problem being in a 30k man alliance that's part of a how many thousands of player coalition? If you don't have 30 guys to call on at any given time you don't deserve to hold your space. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 736	Posted - 2015.04.03 13:16:12 - [337] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Problem with dumping 12-30 carriers is timing. Scenario - 1 cov ops perma cloaked in system, been there a few weeks (most droppers will have multiple of these all around regions they operate in). See's target. No one in system. CTA - dweebs log off their high sec mission running accounts, log on their blops characters, drop the target, jump out, log out. There's no way to preempt them unless you have guys perma-ready to counter drop on the off chance the afk will go active the next time. You know this baltec... You have an entire region of people out flying ratting carriers, all you need is a cyno of your own and some organisation. Responce time is damn near instant. And the next part of why is because his alliance is in space that is difficult to get to apart from Black Ops, try that in other areas and people will just counter drop the carriers with supers, dreads and titans. But fortress Deklin is safe from that so, carriers can be used to counter BLOPS drops by having all the carrier have a cyno on them. So lets imagine that Test tries that in Wicked Creek, oooops is that 50 PL Supers I see there, does that help baltec1 see the reality of space outside fortress Deklin, lol. Ella's Snack bar
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 22	Posted - 2015.04.03 13:19:29 - [338] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: Yes because smaller entities always have the numbers on for 12-30 carriers at the sound of a ping in their off time zone. As I said, you're ignorant to the problem because you personally don't have the problem being in a 30k man alliance that's part of a how many thousands of player coalition? If you don't have 30 guys to call on at any given time you don't deserve to hold your space. Why should 30 guys be on call 23/7 because of 1 AFK cyno dropper that decides to find something in the few minutes he's active? It takes less than 30 seconds to drop near any ratter cept maybe a triage carrier but not everyone rats in a triage carrier. Seriously, you are so ignorant and thick skulled that I literally feel sorry for you IRL and anyone that has to deal with you on a personal basis.
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 22	Posted - 2015.04.03 13:23:32 - [339] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: And the next part of why is because his alliance is in space that is difficult to get to apart from Black Ops, try that in other areas and people will just counter drop the carriers with supers, dreads and titans. But fortress Deklin is safe from that so, carriers can be used to counter BLOPS drops by having all the carrier have a cyno on them. So lets imagine that Test tries that in Wicked Creek, oooops is that 50 PL Supers I see there, does that help baltec1 see the reality of space outside fortress Deklin, lol. This is exactly what he doesn't understand. "Doesn't effect me, it shouldn't be changed"
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 736	Posted - 2015.04.03 13:52:30 - [340] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: Dracvlad wrote: And the next part of why is because his alliance is in space that is difficult to get to apart from Black Ops, try that in other areas and people will just counter drop the carriers with supers, dreads and titans. But fortress Deklin is safe from that so, carriers can be used to counter BLOPS drops by having all the carrier have a cyno on them. So lets imagine that Test tries that in Wicked Creek, oooops is that 50 PL Supers I see there, does that help baltec1 see the reality of space outside fortress Deklin, lol. This is exactly what he doesn't understand. "Doesn't effect me, it shouldn't be changed" Fortress Deklin is well defended against this type of issue because it's out of range and GSF is surrounded by "meat" that has to deal with it and GSF also has nearly 30k pilots. Watch his next reply, it will be a one liner troll or something about defending your space, or changing the subject, ahem cough cough... Ella's Snack bar
Dictateur Imperator Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 22	Posted - 2015.04.03 15:01:54 - [341] - Quote Why continue to speak about nerf or not cloacky ? Actually perma cloak permit moral harassement , and it's just illegal in a lot of country. It's time to CCP to change this and offer one counter. Law argument best argument. If you are unahpy by the end of perma cloaking: how can you said you are pvp player ? it's offer to you a lot of new game play to bait/hunt people. And as "pvp" player like to said to carebear : Adapt or die.
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1581	Posted - 2015.04.03 15:16:01 - [342] - Quote baltec1 wrote: March rabbit wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it. Hahaha. So delusional. Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up. I cannot talk about current 0.0 but back in 2011 we in DroneLand were VERY AWARE of group of 9-13 people who were dropping solo ratters with up to 12 blackops.... And if you say that your 12 blackops are nothing.... They arn't when you dump 12-30 carriers on them. ... You have an entire region of people out flying ratting carriers, all you need is a cyno of your own and some organisation. Responce time is damn near instant. ... How would you do it in your 'cyno jammed system'? The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Adriana Nolen Sama Guild 74	Posted - 2015.04.04 03:26:00 - [343] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: I'm no 0.0 expert, but maybe there should be ways to protect backwater systems for mining. For example, disabling stargates to non-alliance members. I'm a rabid carebear & even I think that's absurd.
Lienzo Amanuensis 74	Posted - 2015.04.04 03:29:14 - [344] - Quote I hope this does not become a tool that protects fleets.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6683	Posted - 2015.04.04 03:47:21 - [345] - Quote Dictateur Imperator wrote: Why continue to speak about nerf or not cloacky ? Actually perma cloak permit moral harassement , and it's just illegal in a lot of country. It's time to CCP to change this and offer one counter. Law argument best argument. If you are unahpy by the end of perma cloaking: how can you said you are pvp player ? it's offer to you a lot of new game play to bait/hunt people. And as "pvp" player like to said to carebear : Adapt or die. Basically, go out and start cloaking then going afk ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Dictateur Imperator Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 22	Posted - 2015.04.04 06:17:17 - [346] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Dictateur Imperator wrote: Why continue to speak about nerf or not cloacky ? Actually perma cloak permit moral harassement , and it's just illegal in a lot of country. It's time to CCP to change this and offer one counter. Law argument best argument. If you are unahpy by the end of perma cloaking: how can you said you are pvp player ? it's offer to you a lot of new game play to bait/hunt people. And as "pvp" player like to said to carebear : Adapt or die. Basically, go out and start cloaking then going afk You haven't understand my post, or you troll. I think you troll , so pleas follow rules of this forum. Afk cloacking permit moral harassement, it's illegal, read my post dude. The discussion is not " why nerf cloack", but "cloak must be nerved, so what we doing to nerf it ?"
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15560	Posted - 2015.04.04 07:32:55 - [347] - Quote March rabbit wrote: How would you do it in your 'cyno jammed system'? You arn't willing to have a standing fleet for protection in the system so here is an alternative to your problem. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15561	Posted - 2015.04.04 07:36:22 - [348] - Quote Nina Lowel wrote: Why should 30 guys be on call 23/7 because of 1 AFK cyno dropper that decides to find something in the few minutes he's active? Because you are in null sec not highsec. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 169	Posted - 2015.04.04 07:39:47 - [349] - Quote Shoulsn't this thread locked, because of deadhorse? "Please do not file support tickets to ask if your support ticket will be answered soon." - Actual Quote.
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 169	Posted - 2015.04.04 07:43:39 - [350] - Quote Dictateur Imperator wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: Dictateur Imperator wrote: Why continue to speak about nerf or not cloacky ? Actually perma cloak permit moral harassement , and it's just illegal in a lot of country. It's time to CCP to change this and offer one counter. Law argument best argument. If you are unahpy by the end of perma cloaking: how can you said you are pvp player ? it's offer to you a lot of new game play to bait/hunt people. And as "pvp" player like to said to carebear : Adapt or die. Basically, go out and start cloaking then going afk You haven't understand my post, or you troll. I think you troll , so pleas follow rules of this forum. Afk cloacking permit moral harassement, it's illegal, read my post dude. The discussion is not " why nerf cloack", but "cloak must be nerved, so what we doing to nerf it ?" No it doesn't. It's a game, not real life. Go file a case and tell us what the doctors said after they sent you to a psychologist. It really looks like you forgot that this isn't real life, that this is a game and no one is forced to join it. What the flying Freud is wrong with you?? Get your sanity checked... "Please do not file support tickets to ask if your support ticket will be answered soon." - Actual Quote.
Ren Oren ArchTech Logistics and Trading 80	Posted - 2015.04.04 13:58:45 - [351] - Quote sabre906 wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nina Lowel wrote: baltec1 wrote: All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it. Hahaha. So delusional. Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up. When was the last time Bomber Bar blapped a goonie carrier in 15 seconds flat? Oh that's right, yesterday. Wh space is not only hotdrop proof, the isk in it is vastly higher than any max upgraded -1.0 truesec system (unless you count in moon goo), and there's no sov bills or sov wars. Why would anyone in their right mind live in a wh system that has gates, hotdrops, sov bills, and far lower isk? In order to convince anyone to live in such a place, rewards will have to be set so high it may as well screw up Eve. There is no station you can dock up and save your stuff in (even if the station gets flipped you can still get your stuff if you get it back), in WH space if someone gets the jump on you, there is no evac, no insta-undock, no jumpbridge, no cyno... the only option is to pay a HUGE ransom, wait for death, or self destruct everything you own to deny the enemy the full pleasure of crushing you. Wormholes are not easier than null, if thats your argument against no local, then its a weak one
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5288	Posted - 2015.04.04 14:14:40 - [352] - Quote Ren Oren wrote: There is no station you can dock up and save your stuff in (even if the station gets flipped you can still get your stuff if you get it back), in WH space if someone gets the jump on you, there is no evac, no insta-undock, no jumpbridge, no cyno... the only option is to pay a HUGE ransom, wait for death, or self destruct everything you own to deny the enemy the full pleasure of crushing you. Wormholes are not easier than null, if thats your argument against no local, then its a weak one You're only real argument there is lack of stations, which is irrelevant since you simply wouldn't pile trillions of isk into a POS in wormhole if you couldn't defend it. Since there's no cynos in wormhole space it means noone can use force projection to crush you. As wormholes have mass limits you can choose what the max size of ships you want to attack you is when you pick your space, and you can even build ships bigger than that to give you an edge in defence. You can also seal up wormholes leaving just the static(s) if you have any. Importantly, if someone decides to attack your group, they can't just fly to your space. You can't simply route to a wormhole like you can in nullsec. Wormholes also have omnitank PvE, meaning the ships you use can take a beating from all type too, while null PvE is specific resists, meaning that you either have to take more damage from rats to omnitank or risk having a gaping hole in your resists that anyone can predict. So I can quite comfortably say that null without local would be more risky and less rewarding that WH space. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6690	Posted - 2015.04.04 15:38:06 - [353] - Quote Shouldn't afk cloaking be an important part of covering a region so the defenders have to be everywhere to stop sov lasering ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Chewytowel Haklar Project RESET 129	Posted - 2015.04.04 15:47:24 - [354] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Shouldn't afk cloaking be an important part of covering a region so the defenders have to be everywhere to stop sov lasering Sounds like the Goons have a fun little scheme they are working up. :D Look forward to seeing this if you do it.
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 4273	Posted - 2015.04.04 15:54:26 - [355] - Quote I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it. The Rules: 5. Trolling is prohibited. Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Dictateur Imperator Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 22	Posted - 2015.04.04 16:05:18 - [356] - Quote Cloacking is actually use for moral harassement who is illegal in my country. So CCP want to offer a way to counter this it's a good thing : CCP game avoid to have some juridical problem and more over gameplay become best by more content in 0.0. (Yes nerf perma clocking means more pve/miner in 0.0 who have they 're own content and means more target for pvp player.) Eve become more interesting for all people with this.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6692	Posted - 2015.04.04 16:36:02 - [357] - Quote Chewytowel Haklar wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: Shouldn't afk cloaking be an important part of covering a region so the defenders have to be everywhere to stop sov lasering Sounds like the Goons have a fun little scheme they are working up. :D Look forward to seeing this if you do it. No, I was actually thinking about the strategy I anticipate from massadeath of moa (the ones who will end our 0.0 nightmare) ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 4276	Posted - 2015.04.04 16:38:59 - [358] - Quote I have removed a rule breaking post. The Rules: 12. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited. The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category. In other words, do not repost a removed post! ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Dictateur Imperator Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 22	Posted - 2015.04.04 16:58:55 - [359] - Quote Isd Ezwal i don't troll: http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F32247.xhtml http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F32239.xhtml Actually perma cloaking is illegal in my country for the harassment who people do with it. I let you translate in english the two official link . So my argument for bye bye cloaking : Law of my country nothing else. And more : If perma cloack is nerf: More activity in 0.0 because more ratter/miner, so more content for they.... and more content for pvp people beacause more target.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6692	Posted - 2015.04.04 17:01:21 - [360] - Quote Don't be silly afk cloaking while doing nothing obviously helps catch the targets ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Dictateur Imperator Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 22	Posted - 2015.04.04 17:04:42 - [361] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Don't be silly afk cloaking while doing nothing obviously helps catch the targets I can proof moral harassement of a lot of perma cloacker and CCP can't said it's "game mechanic fact" if the game mechanic are not "good" for all player. (Means each game play have a true counter).
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15569	Posted - 2015.04.04 17:32:29 - [362] - Quote Dictateur Imperator wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: Don't be silly afk cloaking while doing nothing obviously helps catch the targets I can proof moral harassement of a lot of perma cloacker and CCP can't said it's "game mechanic fact" if the game mechanic are not "good" for all player. (Means each game play have a true counter). Your posting is going to be a hoot when we next burn jita/rapecage a system. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Jade Blackwind Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 325	Posted - 2015.04.04 17:34:29 - [363] - Quote Dictateur Imperator wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: Don't be silly afk cloaking while doing nothing obviously helps catch the targets I can proof moral harassement of a lot of perma cloacker and CCP can't said it's "game mechanic fact" if the game mechanic are not "good" for all player. (Means each game play have a true counter). Google Translate is NOT your friend.
Dictateur Imperator Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 22	Posted - 2015.04.04 18:17:23 - [364] - Quote ISD Ezwal wrote: I have removed a rule breaking post. The Rules: 12. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited. The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category. In other words, do not repost a removed post! Edit: Please refrain from reposting removed posts or there might be consequences. French law it's not a troll, i respect all rules of the forum. I don't discuss about your moderation. I just post French article of law agree with EULA of EVE/forum. http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F32247.xhtml http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F32239.xhtml So This two french link are about Harassement. If you read french define of Harassement (and online in video game to) you can see perma cloacker do a lot of time harassement. So introduce a counter is a legal obligation. If you want remove edit this post: Mp me in forum and explain WHY. P.S: i make this post to have a reference for the support, i send to support to have an employee of CCP point of view. Forum have a legal value in my country in case of i go in justice. I think You understand. Thank.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10590	Posted - 2015.04.04 18:26:02 - [365] - Quote I would LOVE to see a guy stand in a court room and say "your honor, I was being harassed online by the defendant, he made his space ship disappear but I knew he was still around because I could see him in local chat!" French Judge: "but how did you see him, were you not Le Tired and thus having a nap? Or had you already fired ze missiles at this point?"
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12508	Posted - 2015.04.04 18:29:42 - [366] - Quote Dictateur Imperator wrote: Forum have a legal value in my country in case of i go in justice. I think You understand. Thank. Unbelievable. I dare you, I absolutely defy to try and sue CCP for you being allowed to lose in a video game, you cowardly cur. Get the hell out of this game, and never return. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode ISD Community Communications Liaisons 5164	Posted - 2015.04.04 19:18:18 - [367] - Quote Removed some off topic posts in addition to a repost. Do not post that again. No more warnings. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
P3ps1 Max Hedion University Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2015.04.04 19:41:49 - [368] - Quote Not sure what's the main issue with a cloaked player being afk. We have afk players in high sec sitting in stations. Should we make a module purchable on the market to blow up their CQ? Not a player that engages in null sec but to me it seems players want to feel secure in space -- risk v reward?
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 186	Posted - 2015.04.04 20:12:59 - [369] - Quote P3ps1 Max wrote: Not sure what's the main issue with a cloaked player being afk. We have afk players in high sec sitting in stations. Should we make a module purchable on the market to blow up their CQ? Not a player that engages in null sec but to me it seems players want to feel secure in space -- risk v reward? Why... yes, actually we should! "Please do not file support tickets to ask if your support ticket will be answered soon." - Actual Quote. "AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!" - Diana Kim
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 4278	Posted - 2015.04.04 20:19:14 - [370] - Quote As this thread has evolved into a discussion on AFK-cloaking as a whole (and therefore has become redundant) this thread gets a lock as there already is a thread on that same topic. The Rules: 17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked. As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

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