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So, what do you guys think about watch lists?

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Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3817	Posted - 2015.04.30 11:43:32 - [211] - Quote I'm not sure I understand the point about removing watchlists. Intel = where a pilot is and what is he flying. Watchlists do not give that intel. To gather it, you still have to get eyes on the pilot (while he's online). After he has logged off, the moment he logs back on he'll naturally be in the same place in the same ship. Makes sense that you get this intel, since you already had it in the first place. After that, you don't get anymore intel unless, again, you get eyes on him. So what's the problem, exactly? Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.30 15:20:02 - [212] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: I'm not sure I understand the point about removing watchlists. Intel = where a pilot is and what is he flying. Watchlists do not give that intel. To gather it, you still have to get eyes on the pilot (while he's online). After he has logged off, the moment he logs back on he'll naturally be in the same place in the same ship. Makes sense that you get this intel, since you already had it in the first place. After that, you don't get anymore intel unless, again, you get eyes on him. So what's the problem, exactly? Well you see...... The watch-list can tell you when the pilot and friends are online. If you cross them off an also online list you can work out his alts - just in case you prefer to attack an indy toon. When you are on an ALT the watch-list can tell you its time to stop doing what you are doing and log into another toon 1/2 way across the universe" - because "eyes on intel" doesn't have to be the same toon eyes and it has serious range. Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven, grinding them down to destruction you can suddenly bug out of a winning fight because the watch-list has told you his friends have just come online and nothing spoils a good PVE gank more than a Lachesis, Cloaky Proteus and a couple of ECM Rooks turning up on grid. Thanks Magical Watch-List Fairy
Chibi Katana Division 13 Anoikis Ronin 644	Posted - 2015.04.30 15:57:22 - [213] - Quote Iowa Banshee wrote: Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven Right after you've added the pilot's entire corp to watchlist because that's what you do before a lone BS gank, right? Just incase his friends login? Fanciful examples tbh. Who bumped this thread anyway. µä¢ c-++¦-¦+¦-+-à
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 979	Posted - 2015.04.30 16:01:03 - [214] - Quote Chibi Katana wrote: Iowa Banshee wrote: Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven Right after you've added the pilot's entire corp to watchlist because that's what you do before a lone BS gank, right? Can't imagine anyone adds a whole corp. Quick look over zkill gives good odds to catch their active pvpers though, that's just 5-10 guys to add. Would be cool though if you could right click a label and add/remove all contacts to/from watchlist.
Chibi Katana Division 13 Anoikis Ronin 644	Posted - 2015.04.30 16:06:10 - [215] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: Chibi Katana wrote: Iowa Banshee wrote: Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven Right after you've added the pilot's entire corp to watchlist because that's what you do before a lone BS gank, right? Can't imagine anyone adds a whole corp. Quick look over zkill gives good odds to catch their active pvpers though, that's just 5-10 guys to add. Still no less fanciful though. Who actually does that? Sure, see a Raven on scan, you locate him, nothing else is on Dscan, while you're setting up your tackle you're having a quick look at his killboard - yep he's a ratter or whatever, dies a lot, got a couple kills. That's all I'd need to know and enough time wasted being "risk averse". I wouldn't bother sitting there examining each kill, seeing each pilot he/she flies with, checking their PVP activity too, copy/paste names and start watchlisting. I'd just tackle the ******* Raven. µä¢ c-++¦-¦+¦-+-à
Kensa Katana Division 13 Anoikis Ronin 829	Posted - 2015.04.30 16:51:50 - [216] - Quote Chibi Katana wrote: I'd just tackle the ******* Raven. I'd help you, but I only have 1m SP. Digital world problems. Have fun dying to the Raven in your Reaper. µä¢ -+en-òar-à
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3820	Posted - 2015.04.30 17:01:15 - [217] - Quote Iowa Banshee wrote: you can suddenly bug out of a winning fight because the watch-list has told you his friends have just come online and nothing spoils a good PVE gank more than a Lachesis, Cloaky Proteus and a couple of ECM Rooks turning up on grid. So basically you're saying that watchlists help you get LESS kills, because your playstyle involves ganking lone pilots only if you're sure that all their known friends are offline. Fascinating! Are you sure the watchlist is the problem? Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:13:54 - [218] - Quote Chibi Katana wrote: Lloyd Roses wrote: Chibi Katana wrote: Iowa Banshee wrote: Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven Right after you've added the pilot's entire corp to watchlist because that's what you do before a lone BS gank, right? Can't imagine anyone adds a whole corp. Quick look over zkill gives good odds to catch their active pvpers though, that's just 5-10 guys to add. Still no less fanciful though. Who actually does that? Sure, see a Raven on scan, you locate him, nothing else is on Dscan, while you're setting up your tackle you're having a quick look at his killboard - yep he's a ratter or whatever, dies a lot, got a couple kills. That's all I'd need to know and enough time wasted being "risk averse". I wouldn't bother sitting there examining each kill, seeing each pilot he/she flies with, checking their PVP activity too, copy/paste names and start watchlisting. I'd just tackle the ******* Raven. - LOL - See a Raven on d-scan ? How the crap would you see them on D-Scan. Your market trader cannot D-Scan inside a Station - You have to wait for the magical watch list fairy to give you the free intel before swapping alts to begin D-Scanning. Does trading PVP count as PVP? The opposite could happpen you could be scanning a system somewhere and the magical watch list fairy could give you more free intel telling you to log into a trader ALT to undercut prices on a seller who just logged off.
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 29347	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:21:34 - [219] - Quote Iowa Banshee wrote: - LOL - See a Raven on d-scan ? How the crap would you see them on D-Scan. Your market trader cannot D-Scan inside a Station - You have to wait for the magical watch list fairy to give you the free intel before swapping alts to begin D-Scanning. Does trading PVP count as PVP? The opposite could happpen you could be scanning a system somewhere and the magical watch list fairy could give you more free intel telling you to log into a trader ALT to undercut prices on a seller who just logged off. Because I'd be in system with it. Trading? Trading's for poors. You sound awfully knowledgeable about the topic though. raises eyebrow Bob Is Always Watching ... Officially Unofficial Chainsaw DiplomatGäó "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:26:06 - [220] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: Iowa Banshee wrote: - LOL - See a Raven on d-scan ? How the crap would you see them on D-Scan. Your market trader cannot D-Scan inside a Station - You have to wait for the magical watch list fairy to give you the free intel before swapping alts to begin D-Scanning. Does trading PVP count as PVP? The opposite could happpen you could be scanning a system somewhere and the magical watch list fairy could give you more free intel telling you to log into a trader ALT to undercut prices on a seller who just logged off. Because I'd be in system with it. Trading? Trading's for poors. You sound awfully knowledgeable about the topic though. raises eyebrow Ah... I see You would be scanning in system gathering info you have to work for and not using the cheat - so - Get rid of it then?

Candi LeMew Isogen 5 29347	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:27:41 - [221] - Quote Iowa Banshee wrote: Ah... I see You would be scanning in system gathering info you have to work for and not using the cheat - so - Get rid of it then? What are you even talking about? How is a watchlist going to tell me there's a Raven ratting in an anom near planet IV? Bob Is Always Watching ... Officially Unofficial Chainsaw DiplomatGäó "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:31:02 - [222] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: Iowa Banshee wrote: Ah... I see You would be scanning in system gathering info you have to work for and not using the cheat - so - Get rid of it then? What are you even talking about? How is a watchlist going to tell me there's a Raven ratting in an anom near planet IV? It's not - so - Get rid of it then?
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 29348	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:33:26 - [223] - Quote Iowa Banshee wrote: Candi LeMew wrote: Iowa Banshee wrote: Ah... I see You would be scanning in system gathering info you have to work for and not using the cheat - so - Get rid of it then? What are you even talking about? How is a watchlist going to tell me there's a Raven ratting in an anom near planet IV? It's not - so - Get rid of it then? No, there's nothing wrong with the watchlist. And this thread should be allowed to die. Bob Is Always Watching ... Officially Unofficial Chainsaw DiplomatGäó "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:41:10 - [224] - Quote Yes, there's lots wrong with the watchlist. And this thread should be allowed to die.
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 2084	Posted - 2015.05.14 01:35:13 - [225] - Quote Fozzie talked about this on the EN24 podcast: - Watchlists have been on the change list for a while. - Not very happy with the use of watchlist to see when enemies are offline/online. - Might incorporate the online/offline function into locater agents. - A checkbox to mutually allow watching would be good because seeing when friends are online is a valuable feature. @19 min https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/en24podcast/Episode009.mp3 Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1031	Posted - 2015.05.14 12:06:37 - [226] - Quote Zappity wrote: Fozzie talked about this on the EN24 podcast: - Watchlists have been on the change list for a while. - Not very happy with the use of watchlist to see when enemies are offline/online. - Might incorporate the online/offline function into locater agents. - A checkbox to mutually allow watching would be good because seeing when friends are online is a valuable feature. @19 min https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/en24podcast/Episode009.mp3 To be fair the choices to deal with watchlists are either restrictive or enhancing QoL (watchlisting multiple people at once)
TurboX3 Hax. Wrecked. 93	Posted - 2015.05.14 12:10:12 - [227] - Quote Love watchlists for follow scrubs & Super pilots... coming to a wormhole nearby to despawn sites! No Trolling Please
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 543	Posted - 2015.05.19 07:58:00 - [228] - Quote Zappity wrote: Perfect, free intel is bad. Watchlists are OP. There is a good argument for them in a social context but that could be achieved by an approval mechanism from the other person. See this thread for more: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=386367 Isn't it just hilarious that after all this, after all the sneering contempt and jokes at my expense we are now seeing, confirmed by the devs themselves local being nerfed and turned in to a benefit for the owners of that space and from what I hear Fozzie wants to get rid of watchlisting. So keep laughing you pestilent chucklefucks look at who has caused the game to change at a fundamental level yet again. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2337	Posted - 2015.05.20 00:34:50 - [229] - Quote Are you some kind of Nostradamus In Space or something? Wow, man. Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Iyokus Patrouette Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 486	Posted - 2015.05.20 00:49:36 - [230] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Zappity wrote: Perfect, free intel is bad. Watchlists are OP. There is a good argument for them in a social context but that could be achieved by an approval mechanism from the other person. See this thread for more: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=386367 Isn't it just hilarious that after all this, after all the sneering contempt and jokes at my expense we are now seeing, confirmed by the devs themselves local being nerfed and turned in to a benefit for the owners of that space and from what I hear Fozzie wants to get rid of watchlisting. So keep laughing you pestilent chucklefucks look at who has caused the game to change at a fundamental level yet again. we are all so proud of you we could poop. ---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Ripblade Falconpunch Centurion Logistics 128	Posted - 2015.05.20 22:30:32 - [231] - Quote Yeah watch lists are cool and all. Glad our CSM rep is focusing on things that have so much vital importance for the majority of w-space. Gotta see when the enemy super pilots log into their C2's yo. How about focusing on something other than your own play style - can a brother finally get alliance bookmarks ffs?
Viggo Konstanin Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 42	Posted - 2015.05.21 19:18:18 - [232] - Quote I think we can all agree that this thread has been a resounding success.
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 2111	Posted - 2015.05.22 08:13:12 - [233] - Quote Viggo Konstanin wrote: I think we can all agree that this thread has been a resounding success. Don't know about everyone else but I thought it was great. It will be an excellent outcome when it is finally fixed. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1032	Posted - 2015.05.23 11:13:53 - [234] - Quote I really hate to use real life examples, but in this case I feel it transfers kind of nicely. Now in RL: Anyone with a cell phone can be triangulated, located and tracked (this isn't a legal discussion, it's a technology discussion). What we can't do is be immortal through cloning. We can't warp time and space and have free travel across the galaxy. Now in EVE: We are immortal. We can at the push of a button warp time and space on a whim. We can teleport massive fleets. We can do all these pretty awesome super advanced spacey things. With all the power and technology we have in EVE it seems pretty hillarious to me that we somehow forgot to master a location technology that is actually for reals here and now. Is it 'free' intel? Sure I'll agree with that. Given the competative nature of the EVE universe is it plausible, probable or a down right given that there is a technology that allows the handful of imortal beings that zoom around by warping space and time to be tracked? I'd say it's a downright given. Do some ninnies totally space hate it, because it inconveniences them and forces them to acknowledge there are other players in the game (some even deliberately trying to space violence them)? Sure (Ninnies always gonna hate)! Does it allow characters to interact with each other in exciting and interesting ways? Yes (some might argue that is the point of paying for and logging into an mmo). I'm not sure how this even keeps coming up as a serious discussion. If I were to catagorize watch list removal I would label it as a massive game changer (almost everyone uses it) that will dramatically change how the game is played. In my opinion it would nerf fun and interesting player interaction. Making it concentual is kind of absurd in light of EVE space technology. Are you guys really lobbying that Spaceman Spiff can hack a data site, but he can't hack into whatever data stream folks use to navigate their spaceships across eve. The 'nerf WL' arguements don't really make sense in the world we play in. The watch list doesn't need to be fixed. It needs to be protected as is.
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1654	Posted - 2015.05.23 17:44:28 - [235] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: I really hate to use real life examples, but in this case I feel it transfers kind of nicely. - sitting in station and having no ideas what's outside - sitting in station and having no options to deal with other pilots - sitting on gates and having no ideas what's on the other side - being in system and being unable to hide yourself in local - .... I want to say that using RL as base leads to too many "why?"s in this game.... The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Dante Alicante From Hell's Heart 2	Posted - 2015.05.25 03:34:04 - [236] - Quote Hali-Marmora wrote: Give the ability to opt out of showing when you log in This +1
Dante Alicante From Hell's Heart 3	Posted - 2015.05.25 03:37:50 - [237] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: I really hate to use real life examples, but in this case I feel it transfers kind of nicely. Now in EVE: We are immortal. We can at the push of a button warp time and space on a whim. We can teleport massive fleets. We can do all these pretty awesome super advanced spacey things. With all the power and technology we have in EVE it seems pretty hillarious to me that we somehow forgot to master a location technology that is actually for reals here and now. Is it 'free' intel? Sure I'll agree with that. Given the competative nature of the EVE universe is it plausible, probable or a down right given that there is a technology that allows the handful of imortal beings that zoom around by warping space and time to be tracked? I'd say it's a downright given. Then by the same token, I invent a technology that prevents other people from being able to "hack" my signal. Because of being an immortal being that zooms around, ya know?
Kalel Nimrott Henthell Corporation 1143	Posted - 2015.05.27 15:27:29 - [238] - Quote Watch lists are fine. One thing is to bring a little mistery, another is wrecking the balance of the game. Henthell Corporation ESD Director.


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