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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Andrew Jester
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
1143
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:06:10 -
[181] - Quote
Credacom wrote:Get rid of them and watch the fights abound with escalation and fumbles.
let me tell you what won't happen
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Luft Reich
Lazerhawks
72
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:56:29 -
[182] - Quote
Krops Vont wrote:Luft Reich wrote:No, gotta keep it so people can see when I log in....
On the real though, it should NOT be removed. "Oh no free intel gathering" well after W-Space NPC API was removed seeding people and monitering groups to plan a gank became more challenging as you have to observe them for longer periods of time.
Removing watchlists is the final nail in the coffin krabs want to make them safe. Remove it. I can finally solo them in my d-scan immune fleet.
^^^^^ I totally forgot, yes remove WL.
ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
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Ozz Burtus
Anomalous Existence
Low-Class
0
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Posted - 2015.04.12 22:30:35 -
[183] - Quote
IMO the watchlist is bread and / or butter for WH space PvP, for these reasons amongst others:
On a quiet night it tells you (roughly) where in the 20+ systems in your chain you might find something to shoot. (WL the most active of the corps down the chain and go knocking when the lights come on somewhere).
On a busy night it can give you an idea if your 2 party fight might soon turn into a full on orgy. And where the extra people are likely to come from.
In fleet ops or POS bashing it can be used as Intel on the prey logged in as well as effective disinformation.
As a cloaky scout, it's a really powerful tool. Balanced? Not in WH space, I came though your system 2hrs ago and WL'd your corp; sat in my tower 5 connections back, I can see that you have logged in, chances are it will be into your home system and that you'll be doing your PI real soon.
Remove the WL? Please Bob no, it will make finding content that much harder and WH space is already too quiet.
Ozz |
Iyokus Patrouette
Sudden Buggery
Prolapse.
405
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Posted - 2015.04.12 23:47:53 -
[184] - Quote
We must also remove Killmails and loss mails.
They get free intel on what i fly and how many people i usually roam with, all that Free intel... everyone should pay isk to see all kill/loss mails.
Corporation information shouldn't be viewable either... you can see how many people are in the corp.. More free intel. IT'S SO UNFAIR GUYS.
Overview should be removed.. free intel on anything on grid.
also, all ships should look the same, so cloaky people can't look at my ship and see what guns i have... free intel after all.
actually the only way to really make everything fair is for us all to play with a black screen. problem solved.
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Pissfat
Reverse Production
79
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Posted - 2015.04.13 02:44:17 -
[185] - Quote
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:We must also remove Killmails and loss mails.
They get free intel on what i fly and how many people i usually roam with, all that Free intel... everyone should pay isk to see all kill/loss mails.
Corporation information shouldn't be viewable either... you can see how many people are in the corp.. More free intel. IT'S SO UNFAIR GUYS.
Overview should be removed.. free intel on anything on grid.
also, all ships should look the same, so cloaky people can't look at my ship and see what guns i have... free intel after all.
actually the only way to really make everything fair is for us all to play with a black screen. problem solved.
This guy gets it.
I would add though you shouldn't be able to click on a character at all. Look at all that free intel on a person and his history, add to that you shouldn't even have an option to find his toon in this overpowered local chat that exists everywhere.
You should only have on grid intel right?
I am Winthorp, you may remember me from such films as....
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Jezza McWaffle
No Vacancies
Lost Alliance
193
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Posted - 2015.04.13 10:18:35 -
[186] - Quote
Nah on grid Intel is too powerful, you should have to die to them first before you can even see there ship...
C6 Wormhole blog
http://holelotofwaffle.wordpress.com/
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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
8
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Posted - 2015.04.13 15:19:41 -
[187] - Quote
[quote=Zoe Athame][quote=Nelly Uanos]The only point I have against removing it is the following...
I'm cloaked at your tower watching you, you log off... without WL I don't know if you logged out or warped away and cloaked.
I was ACTIVELY trying to get intel on you and now I'm in the dark... That's stupid.
If you give me a way to differentiate someone logging out from someone warping away and cloaking then fine, you can remove non-concensual WL.
quote]
Differentiation:
If you're cloaked at a tower watching a ship and see it disappear that means they logged off.
If you're cloaked at a tower watching a ship and it moves then zooms off into the distance they warped off.
or did you mean:
If you're cloaked at a tower watching a ship and alt tab to another toon to run pi / play the market / grab a beer.
When you get back the ship has gone, did it warp off or did it log off ... Well that means you were not really watching but its OK just check the free intel on your watchlist. |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
8
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Posted - 2015.04.13 15:29:16 -
[188] - Quote
Pissfat wrote:Iyokus Patrouette wrote:We must also remove Killmails and loss mails.
They get free intel on what i fly and how many people i usually roam with, all that Free intel... everyone should pay isk to see all kill/loss mails.
Corporation information shouldn't be viewable either... you can see how many people are in the corp.. More free intel. IT'S SO UNFAIR GUYS.
Overview should be removed.. free intel on anything on grid.
also, all ships should look the same, so cloaky people can't look at my ship and see what guns i have... free intel after all.
actually the only way to really make everything fair is for us all to play with a black screen. problem solved. This guy gets it. I would add though you shouldn't be able to click on a character at all. Look at all that free intel on a person and his history, add to that you shouldn't even have an option to find his toon in this overpowered local chat that exists everywhere. You should only have on grid intel right?
Reductio ad absurdum - As non of the items above are in fact a "watchlist" then this does nothing to further the discussion |
Andrew Jester
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
1145
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Posted - 2015.04.13 16:38:40 -
[189] - Quote
why does this thread bring all the no name randos out
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Domania
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
64
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Posted - 2015.04.13 16:55:34 -
[190] - Quote
It's a OP mechanic. You should only be able to see if someone is online if they have you added with positive standings too. You know, like what friends do, not possible targets. Seriously you shouldn't be able to see hostiles online whenever. |
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Iyokus Patrouette
Sudden Buggery
Prolapse.
410
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Posted - 2015.04.13 22:12:20 -
[191] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:Pissfat wrote:Iyokus Patrouette wrote:We must also remove Killmails and loss mails.
They get free intel on what i fly and how many people i usually roam with, all that Free intel... everyone should pay isk to see all kill/loss mails.
Corporation information shouldn't be viewable either... you can see how many people are in the corp.. More free intel. IT'S SO UNFAIR GUYS.
Overview should be removed.. free intel on anything on grid.
also, all ships should look the same, so cloaky people can't look at my ship and see what guns i have... free intel after all.
actually the only way to really make everything fair is for us all to play with a black screen. problem solved. This guy gets it. I would add though you shouldn't be able to click on a character at all. Look at all that free intel on a person and his history, add to that you shouldn't even have an option to find his toon in this overpowered local chat that exists everywhere. You should only have on grid intel right? Reductio ad absurdum - As none of the items above are in fact a "watchlist" then this does nothing to further the discussion
Granted i skimmed over most of the QQing in the previous 8 or so pages, But i don't think this thread has had a discussion going for a good while now. or we've started a new discussion, I believe it was Trinkets for CSM.
That seemed to be the most discussed thing so far.
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox
Low-Class
351
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Posted - 2015.04.15 10:08:30 -
[192] - Quote
Watchlisting is fine as is.
Now please give us more labels! I'm starting to reach the max limit, and I like using labels to quickly add and clear targets as holes roll.
I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way.
Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever
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blue coeur
Anomalous Existence
Low-Class
15
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Posted - 2015.04.15 20:04:18 -
[193] - Quote
WL is fine. |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1277
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Posted - 2015.04.16 23:58:56 -
[194] - Quote
Domania wrote:It's a OP mechanic. You should only be able to see if someone is online if they have you added with positive standings too. You know, like what friends do, not possible targets. Seriously you shouldn't be able to see hostiles online whenever.
Nice troll, but partially true too.
I'd put a price on it if you want to watchlist people anonymously. As it's more of a stalking tactic, similar to how locator agents work. They aren't free. Why should this be?
Yaay!!!!
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Tylus Lemmont
Disciples of Aphrodite
1
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Posted - 2015.04.18 19:29:44 -
[195] - Quote
Could always require mutual good standing or mutual bad standing to watchlist someone. |
Araikas Rhal
Hair-Trigger
Prolapse.
4
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Posted - 2015.04.19 11:01:44 -
[196] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Chance Ravinne wrote:I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? How do you feel about local. If there we ever overpowered free intel... local chat would be it. Since you're a CSM and since you brought it up could you do us a favor and give your views as to the differences as you see them between the watchlist and local. Local - intant free intel you only have to be logged in for. Used costantly to avoid conflict. Allows risk free game play in all but WH. Watchlist - instant, but at least you have to do some up front work and add the dude for it to work (so not exactly 100% free). It's primarily used as an aid in creating conflict - not in avoiding it. Well, the Intel of local is mutual. Everyone in local can see everyone else in local. I can by counter watch list everyone in a corp that's my target, and use that info unbeknownst to them to figure out when to run locator agents. Or for instance a corp I am camping can watch list me and know when not to run sites, or when to. Kind of detracts from the mystery of it for me.
Yes, watchlists are indeed overpowered, far more so then local because both pilots can use it...... wait.... nvm.
Local is too OP, someone might not see it after all, making it unfair, i would also like to see a local chat that cant be minimized, and reaches two systems out. Gee, on that line of though, i think aggression style PvP is overpowered as well! We should only be able to violence each others ships if both people have added each other as blue's to friends list and agree on a place and time. Also, they must have equal skill points. Then all of Eve can be fair finally!
Chance my man, you are a genius!
This fair and balanced Eve is exactly where i want to play. Also, it would be cool if we could add a place called Crossroads and i could be a Paladin? |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
191
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Posted - 2015.04.20 03:48:48 -
[197] - Quote
Araikas Rhal wrote:Chance Ravinne wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Chance Ravinne wrote:I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? How do you feel about local. If there we ever overpowered free intel... local chat would be it. Since you're a CSM and since you brought it up could you do us a favor and give your views as to the differences as you see them between the watchlist and local. Local - intant free intel you only have to be logged in for. Used costantly to avoid conflict. Allows risk free game play in all but WH. Watchlist - instant, but at least you have to do some up front work and add the dude for it to work (so not exactly 100% free). It's primarily used as an aid in creating conflict - not in avoiding it. Well, the Intel of local is mutual. Everyone in local can see everyone else in local. I can by counter watch list everyone in a corp that's my target, and use that info unbeknownst to them to figure out when to run locator agents. Or for instance a corp I am camping can watch list me and know when not to run sites, or when to. Kind of detracts from the mystery of it for me. Yes, watchlists are indeed overpowered, far more so then local because both pilots can use it...... wait.... nvm. Local is too OP, someone might not see it after all, making it unfair, i would also like to see a local chat that cant be minimized, and reaches two systems out. Gee, on that line of though, i think aggression style PvP is overpowered as well! We should only be able to violence each others ships if both people have added each other as blue's to friends list and agree on a place and time. Also, they must have equal skill points. Then all of Eve can be fair finally! Chance my man, you are a genius! This fair and balanced Eve is exactly where i want to play. Also, it would be cool if we could add a place called Crossroads and i could be a Paladin?
Local is actually instantaneously mutual. If your cloaky spots someone entering a WH and you watchlist them, it's not actually mutual. Just saying!
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Apex Bex
Boundless Exploration
25
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Posted - 2015.04.20 04:44:29 -
[198] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Local is actually instantaneously mutual. If your cloaky spots someone entering a WH and you watchlist them, it's not actually mutual. Just saying!
Only if you use it, somehow you completely missed the point of his post.
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Iyokus Patrouette
Sudden Buggery
Prolapse.
419
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Posted - 2015.04.20 04:53:59 -
[199] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Local is actually instantaneously mutual. If your cloaky spots someone entering a WH and you watchlist them, it's not actually mutual. Just saying!
Not in Thera it isn't.
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Angus MacDoom
Anomalous Existence
Low-Class
22
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Posted - 2015.04.20 05:07:33 -
[200] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Local is actually instantaneously mutual. If your cloaky spots someone entering a WH and you watchlist them, it's not actually mutual. Just saying!
And why should it be mutual in wormholes? Wormholes are not supposed to be easy, it's the "unknown", and has always meant to be a vicious environment to enter into, and we the people like it that way.
Watchlists are fine, leave them alone. |
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Mimiko Severovski
Zero Fun Allowed
12
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Posted - 2015.04.20 05:21:25 -
[201] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Local is actually instantaneously mutual. If your cloaky spots someone entering a WH and you watchlist them, it's not actually mutual. Just saying!
Then maybe your cloaky should have been there sooner, to spot the cloaky who is spotting the cloaky that came to cloaky afk camp the cloaky's friends/corporation/t1 hauler.
Removing watchlists doesn't help anyone except a select few people that wait a few days to kill a hauler, and blame it onto the game mechanics.
If you are looking for broken things, maybe take a look at bombers for example.(sorry for the derail) |
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
42094
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:17:05 -
[202] - Quote
Mimiko Severovski wrote: (sorry for the derail)
No, please, continue.
You're doing Bob's work.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17|12|116 GÖÑ
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
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Pissfat
Reverse Production
88
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:56:24 -
[203] - Quote
Mimiko Severovski wrote:
If you are looking for broken things, maybe take a look at bombers for example.
Quoting for truth and posterity. |
Gipsy K1ng
STORM Squad
Northern Associates.
0
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Posted - 2015.04.29 12:20:27 -
[204] - Quote
WL is good as it is ,and yeas this topic serves only Chance agenda ..invisible,untraceable Thanks but no....this is a game and I am not going to waste 2-3 hrs play time to track somebody rush 20-30 jumps to find him, just to realise he logged off 1 hr ago.I would rather go for no local out of HS. |
Krops Vont
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
67
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Posted - 2015.04.29 14:38:21 -
[205] - Quote
Gipsy K1ng wrote:WL is good as it is ,and yeas this topic serves only Chance agenda ..invisible,untraceable Thanks but no....this is a game and I am not going to waste 2-3 hrs play time to track somebody rush 20-30 jumps to find him, just to realise he logged off 1 hr ago.I would rather go for no local out of HS.
The one thing most game changes or "defining ideas" always neglect. The time & or effort required into an act or the consequences that will follow.
Imagine if there were no more stargates and you could finally warp from A to B just takes you know, an hour and a half. To some people, this is all they have time for in a week. Watchlist helps save time and also helps identify if someone DC'd with their crappy router connection.
--==Services==--
Propaganda/Art/Media
Wormhole Finding & Selling
o/ Play for fun
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
974
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Posted - 2015.04.29 15:17:20 -
[206] - Quote
Angus MacDoom wrote:And why should it be mutual in wormholes? Wormholes are not supposed to be easy, it's the "unknown", and has always meant to be a vicious environment to enter into, and we the people like it that way.
Watchlists are fine, leave them alone.
Jump wormhole, look up zkill for inhabitants, WL potential FCs and obvious scanners. Intel gathering complete. Afterwards press dscan and look around for offline towers with SMAs, bm wormhole. Much unknown. |
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
54
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Posted - 2015.04.29 15:41:14 -
[207] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Jump wormhole, look up zkill for inhabitants, WL potential FCs and obvious scanners. Intel gathering complete. Afterwards press dscan and look around for offline towers with SMAs, bm wormhole. Much unknown.
So killboards are the problem then?
Seeing as they give you instant intel on who lives in a wh, how many people they get in fleets, what ships they use, what tz they are ect.
Should killmails be removed from wh space now?
~lvl 60 paladin~
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B0T0
X Legion
Against Probes
23
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Posted - 2015.04.29 18:03:55 -
[208] - Quote
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:
So killboards are the problem then?
Killboard is next big problem.
Option to disable exporting kills would be quite nice.
01010111 00101101 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00101100 00100000 01100010
01100101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00100001
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FNPD
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.29 20:05:33 -
[209] - Quote
Watchlist should require the person to accept you watching them. In a game that intel is very important and must be worked for, a watchlist makes ZERO sense. |
Humang
Awakened Ones
94
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Posted - 2015.04.29 21:55:46 -
[210] - Quote
Haven't read the entire thread so take this with a grain of salt.
But what about only having the WL update that someone is online/offline if you are in the same system that they are currently in / logged off in.
IE.
You can't be on the other side of the galaxy to see that someone just logged in and then rush over to their system to gank. However if you are actively in system, you know if they are online or not, regardless if you even saw them at all in the first place.
AFK cloaking thread Summary - Provided by Paikis
Good Post Etiquette - Provided by CCP Grayscale
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