EVE Search - So, what do you guys think about watch lists?

All Channels

Wormholes

So, what do you guys think about watch lists?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Chance Ravinne WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 153	Posted - 2015.03.31 16:17:32 - [1] - Quote I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 26247	Posted - 2015.03.31 16:26:33 - [2] - Quote I'm more than fine with watchlisting. I think people are trying to push a boulder up a hill to argue against it. Sure, there may be some slight inconveniences at times, but they're far out weighed by the conveniences. I like to know when people I interact with are online. I'd hate to lose that for the sake of a few people who don't like being camped and blame it on a watchlist. =ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ... Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Jack Miton Isogen 5 4339	Posted - 2015.03.31 16:32:32 - [3] - Quote The watchlist is a strong tool for both the watcher AND the listed. It's fine. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 37	Posted - 2015.03.31 16:42:13 - [4] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? But how will you know if that t1 hauler is logged in? Seriously tho, stick to what you said. Chance Ravinne wrote: I know some of you may not consider me to be a wormhole resident, and I know I did not run on a primarily w-space platform during my CSM X campaign. I am by all accounts a newbie who has carved out a very narrow niche existence in Eve and self-promoted my way to F-list notoriety. *~lvl 60 paladin~*
HTC NecoSino No Vacancies Lost Alliance 192	Posted - 2015.03.31 16:42:31 - [5] - Quote Seeing as you can watchlist the people you're hunting, and they can watchlist you, the mechanic is balanced, not OP and should not be touched
HTC NecoSino No Vacancies Lost Alliance 192	Posted - 2015.03.31 16:42:54 - [6] - Quote Seeing as you can watchlist the people you're hunting, and they can watchlist you, the mechanic is balanced, not OP and should not be touched
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 37	Posted - 2015.03.31 16:43:33 - [7] - Quote double post... *~lvl 60 paladin~*
HTC NecoSino No Vacancies Lost Alliance 192	Posted - 2015.03.31 16:45:22 - [8] - Quote The double-post is strong in this thread. CCPlease fix this!
Hali-Marmora 6	Posted - 2015.03.31 17:09:44 - [9] - Quote Give the ability to opt out of showing when you log in
Kynric Sky Fighters 284	Posted - 2015.03.31 17:10:41 - [10] - Quote If it could be changed to require the consent of the watched it would retain its function for letting friends keep up with you while disabling its use as an intel tool.
Seraph Essael eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred 1083	Posted - 2015.03.31 17:12:35 - [11] - Quote Watchlists are fine. Its funny people complain about them even though they don't know they are watchlisted unless you check them to notify. So, I am sat at a POS, watching this Domi, hoping he runs sites. I turn away for two secs to sort out the cat. Turn round and he's gone. If he logs off it tells me and I can go do other stuff instead. If it doesn't I'm left with my thumb up my arse wondering if he's online... The watchlist doesn't tell you where said person is, what ship they're in, what fleet they're in or what friends they have. There is nothing wrong with the watchlist system and it should be left that way. Who gives a **** if you're being watchlisted, I'm probably on multiple watchlists, the horror, they know when I log in!!! It works both ways: I'm hunting them, they see me come in due to a scout who drags my name into a channel the people in the wormhole all watchlist me... Does it impede the way I play... Nope... Should it? Nope... Tl;dr: See first sentence. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Alundil Isogen 5 898	Posted - 2015.03.31 17:17:44 - [12] - Quote I'm fine with it either way especially in wspace where it's not indicative of "OMG giezz, their supercap fleet just logged in, someone's gonna have a bad time." In wpsace, the assumption should always be that there's someone either in system with you and watching you on on grid with you watching you. I don't see watchlists overpowered in that regard. That said, if it's removed I'd be curious to know what is on offer (proposed or otherwise) to augment the remaining intelligence gathering mechanics (especially if certain other structure changes come to wspace such as mooring/docking and pilots being removed from space). I'm right behind you
Alundil Isogen 5 898	Posted - 2015.03.31 17:18:50 - [13] - Quote sigh - good grief CCP the quick reply function is a bit borked double-post I'm right behind you
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 1913	Posted - 2015.03.31 17:26:10 - [14] - Quote Perfect, free intel is bad. Watchlists are OP. There is a good argument for them in a social context but that could be achieved by an approval mechanism from the other person. See this thread for more: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=386367 Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Arwatt Wahad MINETE Mining Exploration and Trading Enterprise 1	Posted - 2015.03.31 17:30:57 - [15] - Quote I've actually spent some time thinking about watch lists, and my opinion is that the way it works is just OP. I'm not against watch lists since they are a very important tool in-game, both for social and intel reasons, however I think there should work like one of 2 options: - Quote: If it could be changed to require the consent of the watched it would retain its function for letting friends keep up with you while disabling its use as an intel tool. -or if it was too much, at least have an notification delivered to the watch listed char, saying who did it. I think the first option is better, but knowing the use watch lists have in the gameplay, most people would go nuts, because now they wouldn't be able to know when that super capital char logs in, when they've been waiting to hunt for a week. (which I don't think it's a bad thing, because with all the nerfs to capitals and all the groups dedicated to hunting capitals in this fashion it just isn't worth using them). The other use is that blocs in a battle wouldn't be able to know what chars the other side is logging in, which I also think it's a good thing.
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1577	Posted - 2015.03.31 17:32:31 - [16] - Quote Seraph Essael wrote: So, I am sat at a POS, watching this Domi, hoping he runs sites. I turn away for two secs to sort out the cat. Turn round and he's gone. If he logs off it tells me and I can go do other stuff instead. If it doesn't I'm left with my thumb up my arse wondering if he's online... Perfect example of what is wrong with watchlists if you are watching somebody you should do it yourself and not rely on external automated tools. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
scorchlikeshiswhiskey Totally Abstract O X I D E 388	Posted - 2015.03.31 17:38:50 - [17] - Quote As far as I'm concerned, watchlists are fine in wormholes. As has been stated, it doesn't tell you where someone is, what they're flying, how they're fit, or even if they're actively flying or watching reruns while parked in the FF. You only know if they're online or offline, that's it, and if you want to know anything else you have to go find out for yourself thereby creating content.
Seraph Essael eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred 1083	Posted - 2015.03.31 17:40:40 - [18] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Seraph Essael wrote: So, I am sat at a POS, watching this Domi, hoping he runs sites. I turn away for two secs to sort out the cat. Turn round and he's gone. If he logs off it tells me and I can go do other stuff instead. If it doesn't I'm left with my thumb up my arse wondering if he's online... Perfect example of what is wrong with watchlists if you are watching somebody you should do it yourself and not rely on external automated tools. Yep, confirming the watch list, that is ingame, is external and automated. Congratulations on nullifying your entire argument there. And as previously stated, they can just as easily watch list me. But naturally you ignore that part and just cherry pick my response. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
B0T0 X Legion Against Probes 17	Posted - 2015.03.31 19:32:59 - [19] - Quote Watch list is free intel, so should be removed 01010111 00101101 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00101100 00100000 01100010 01100101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00100001
Tim Nering R3d Fire 42	Posted - 2015.03.31 19:51:13 - [20] - Quote im fine with WL.
Rroff Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 1004	Posted - 2015.03.31 19:53:00 - [21] - Quote Self destruct timer starts on your ship every time someone logs in/out on your watchlist without mutual confirmation... (Actually a more serious suggestion under there). (Watchlists are fine anyhow). (Improved gameplay wise some kind of tactical option to login incognito (with the right balancing/potential counter mechanism) if you suspect someone is watching you - but something you wouldn't normally do if you didn't).
DaReaper Net 7 1880	Posted - 2015.03.31 20:16:25 - [22] - Quote As a corp cEO and former alliance head the watch list is invaluable if i am trying to get in touch withone to discuss politics or i need a director to do something or another alliance member and have no idea if they are on at the time. The tool is important in managing of things. Should not be removed. I'm kinda ok with the ability to opt out, but honestly the tool doesn't give you much of an advantage. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1234	Posted - 2015.03.31 21:05:50 - [23] - Quote I put my thoughts in the thread linked below here. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5227161#post5227161 To summarize... Put a price on watch listing people for longer than a short term (no free three year watch list setups). You can do it, but it will cost you isk not to notify them. Yaay!!!!
Proclus Diadochu Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy 2118	Posted - 2015.03.31 21:07:40 - [24] - Quote B0T0 wrote: Watch list is free intel, so should be removed Local is free intel, so should be removed. Leave watchlists be... They are fine. Bigger fish to fry, Chance. Minister of High Society \| Twitter: @autoritare E-mail: [email protected] My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/ The Diogenes Club \| Join W-Space \| Down The Pipe
umnikar Fishbone Industries 62	Posted - 2015.03.31 21:09:51 - [25] - Quote I used it myself as Intel and was not thinking about it any further, but tbh it's the same abuse as local chat for intel. It should be fixed.
Evan Roc Awakened Ones 6	Posted - 2015.03.31 21:16:49 - [26] - Quote Watch lists are fine the way they are. They show both the hunted and hunter when the other in online, that's it. Many other factors involved before you consider them free intel. Now how about getting your head around the new structures and how they will be used in W space? That would be worthy of your time Chance.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey Totally Abstract O X I D E 388	Posted - 2015.03.31 21:22:28 - [27] - Quote Proclus Diadochu wrote: B0T0 wrote: Watch list is free intel, so should be removed Local is free intel, so should be removed. Leave watchlists be... They are fine. Bigger fish to fry, Chance. Actually, local is even worse than watchlisting since local gives you a location as well as online/offline status whereas watchlists only give you the online/offline status and if you want a location, and happen to be in K-space, you have to use a locator or intel channel for location info.
Peter Moonlight Lazerhawks 143	Posted - 2015.03.31 22:08:02 - [28] - Quote They are balanced and ok.
BayneNothos United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 134	Posted - 2015.03.31 23:11:23 - [29] - Quote Watchlists are fine, you still have to see the guy or start running intel checks to get that watchlist contact. It's part of the hunt. I would love being able to set a time on the contact, after which it deletes itself though. What I'm more worried about is the CREST API stuff surrounding it. For those of you who poked around with https://spreadsheetsin.space/year-in-review/ will have seen that it shows how many times OTHERS have added you as a contact. If this is available through the API for all, then things change. Being able to write a tool that'll notify you if someone else watchlists you will be a big change that I'm not sure would be in the best interest of all. Good to see you throwing questions around though, keep it up.
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 37	Posted - 2015.03.31 23:14:58 - [30] - Quote Phoenix Jones wrote: I put my thoughts in the thread linked below here. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5227161#post5227161 To summarize... Put a price on watch listing people for longer than a short term (no free three year watch list setups). You can do it, but it will cost you isk not to notify them. -¿Hi, I'm a random npc alt, and you have just got a notification that I have watchlisted you.-¿ See where I'm going with this? *~lvl 60 paladin~*
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 935	Posted - 2015.03.31 23:35:34 - [31] - Quote Watchlists are as charismatic as local channel in my view, I'd like to either see it gone or an option to not appear as online included. Else I'm certain our watch lists are all sufficiently filled to make the notification sound a better topic for discussion. It's a bit to loud in my opinion, and the sound could be a bit softer.
Alundil Isogen 5 898	Posted - 2015.04.01 00:00:10 - [32] - Quote BayneNothos wrote: Watchlists are fine, you still have to see the guy or start running intel checks to get that watchlist contact. It's part of the hunt. I would love being able to set a time on the contact, after which it deletes itself though. What I'm more worried about is the CREST API stuff surrounding it. For those of you who poked around with https://spreadsheetsin.space/year-in-review/ will have seen that it shows how many times OTHERS have added you as a contact. If this is available through the API for all, then things change. Being able to write a tool that'll notify you if someone else watchlists you will be a big change that I'm not sure would be in the best interest of all. Good to see you throwing questions around though, keep it up. I don't recall that site displaying when someone added you to a watch list. Only that they have added you as a contact to set standings. There are many many many pilots who I have listed as a contact for standings purposes who are not and would likely never be added to a watch list because I don't care when they are online. Only that I see standings indicators in the overview and local if I see them in kspace. I'm right behind you
Alundil Isogen 5 898	Posted - 2015.04.01 00:01:03 - [33] - Quote Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: Phoenix Jones wrote: I put my thoughts in the thread linked below here. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5227161#post5227161 To summarize... Put a price on watch listing people for longer than a short term (no free three year watch list setups). You can do it, but it will cost you isk not to notify them. -¿Hi, I'm a random npc alt, and you have just got a notification that I have watchlisted you.-¿ See where I'm going with this? Which means exactly what in wspace? I'm right behind you
Kynric Sky Fighters 285	Posted - 2015.04.01 00:11:28 - [34] - Quote I would like ship names and not pilot names to show on overview while we are ridding ourselves of free intel. (How is that for stirring the pot. )
Mike Azariah The Scope Gallente Federation 2710	Posted - 2015.04.01 01:05:42 - [35] - Quote From over there to over here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5605678#post5605678 Quote: As it stands, nonconsensual watch listing provides way too much intelligence about enemy forces in a way that is extremely easy to read from the client's memory and output into an irc channel. Short of removing nonconsensual watchlisting, having a mechanism to blunt its effectiveness would be marvelous . If you are in game and someone comes on, you get the little notification. Fine (ish) But if your watchers are out of game and can be pinged? One watcher automation calling all of an ambush fleet? Yeah, that is beginning to blur lines of ok and not ok But then that thread is discussing watchlist jamming strictures, so you could 'opt out' if you had the correct infrastructure in place and were on your home turf hmmmmm m Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯\|(pâä)/¯
Chance Ravinne WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 155	Posted - 2015.04.01 01:19:22 - [36] - Quote Also quick note it's just something my corpmates and I had talkd about before and i was curious about. Please don't take this as a "Chance thread means it's his evil secret agenda!" You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Paul Vashar Periphery Bound 36	Posted - 2015.04.01 01:26:56 - [37] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: Also quick note it's just something my corpmates and I had talkd about before and i was curious about. Please don't take this as a "Chance thread means it's his evil secret agenda!" Your portrait hints at a Tarp
scorchlikeshiswhiskey Totally Abstract O X I D E 389	Posted - 2015.04.01 01:38:58 - [38] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: Also quick note it's just something my corpmates and I had talkd about before and i was curious about. Please don't take this as a "Chance thread means it's his evil secret agenda!" That's just what you would say if it really were your evil secret agenda!!!
Saisin State War Academy Caldari State 225	Posted - 2015.04.01 02:52:48 - [39] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? Watch list is a good tool amongst friends. I am glad the CSM is looking into it, as I strongly believe every player should have an opt-out option, possibly set according to standings in-game. The way it is I believe it can be seen as a breach of RL privacy: why would other players I do not know be able to know when I am logging in and logging out of the game? The new notification system makes it even easier to establish patterns. I am no lawyer but I feel CCP is exposing themselves to some legal actions, if someone with time and money decides to go that route.... Provide an option to opt-out of watch list or set it only for specific standings, and this is not an issue anymore. "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo. solo? There is a new hope...
Witchway Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 164	Posted - 2015.04.01 04:14:06 - [40] - Quote The amount of retardation in here is astounding. Most of your points in here surround the fact that because player A and B can both watch list each other the mechanic is balanced. That's the equivalent of player A and B both being able to see each other in local, thus it is balanced. The problem there in lies with the fact that everyone of you hates that the defender can get such a massive advantage with the local mechanics but yet when you have a massive advantage such as being able to see your prey before he can see you from anywhere in New Eden, oh well that ****'s just good natured hard work and skill. I guess we all just have to start adding all characters from all wormholes corps to our watch list and just pray none of them know how to use ooc alts. we all know it's not balanced. if you disagree with that point you're whacked out of your noodle. Official Shit Talking Captain, Bastard of Hard Knocks Inc.
Bienator II madmen of the skies 3224	Posted - 2015.04.01 05:03:35 - [41] - Quote watch lists are a bit silly in a scifi universe. (but so are other chat features which became intel tools, like local) If it would go away i would mostly miss it since i no longer would see when a friend comes online. But watching your targets might be a little OP i have to admit. how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Coelomate The Suicide Kings Black Legion. 45	Posted - 2015.04.01 05:51:09 - [42] - Quote Watchlists are huge with supers, since leaving them logged on is a real security risk (drifting out of a POS due to accidental click, bump by a spy, etc.). It's also a crucial tool for hunting lone supers as they log in to make moves. It's not exactly breaking the game though. Especially with everything else going on in EVE these days (sov, structures, etc.), I don't think watchlisting warrants attention from CCP right now. (Edit: obviously supers aren't relevant to wormholes, but that's IMO the most significant use of watchlists in terms of gameplay balance, so it would be relevant to any change) Love, ~Coelomate
Frightstar Rolling Static Gone Critical 2	Posted - 2015.04.01 05:52:07 - [43] - Quote I think they should be removed, or at least change how they function to require a mutual agreement to be enabled. Its so incredibly easy especially in wh-space to gain what in my humble opinion is waaaay to easy intel. With services like eve-tools available i can watch list an entire 100man corp in a few minutes of clicking to get them all added. If i open into a new WH look up what corp lives there via zkill and watch list them all without having to do any scouting on my own it kind of removes the mystery of w-space. I should be worried that there might be 20 cloaked t3s from the owners waiting for me, not seeing nothing on d-scan but 20 people online and getting a large part of the picture for me answer for me. We were recently removing a wormhole of a smaller corp all we had to do was watch list them all and we knew when we had to really pay attention them trying to get things in/out. The watchlist made it way to easy for us to keep tabs on them.
Nox52 Lycosa Syndicate Prolapse. 56	Posted - 2015.04.01 06:17:29 - [44] - Quote Watchlists are overpowered and unbalanced. I would strongly urge the people who have thought otherwise to change reevaluate their position. Once you are watchlisted, you have no ability to mitigate that one way or the other, making it inherently unbalanced. It also gives you free intel in the form of notifications if anyone is in actually in-game. Some have said that it doesn't give you location intel. It can easily tell you when someone is logged in the game in your chain which is more than enough to stalk. Many a log off/ log on trap or super/titan have been orchestrated at the expense of only a bit of elbow grease. Watchlists are instrumental and invaluable in evictions to gage the level of opposition you are likely to face at a moment in time, both on the defender or and attacker side. I am strongly of the opinion that they should be removed (as well as local in null). They removed api killmail pulls so I don't see why this couldn't be removed from wh space or globally as well. Current friendship functionality can easily be restored by a function of mutual consent to watch-listing or when chars are blue to each other.
BayneNothos United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 136	Posted - 2015.04.01 06:49:14 - [45] - Quote Alundil wrote: BayneNothos wrote: Watchlists are fine, you still have to see the guy or start running intel checks to get that watchlist contact. It's part of the hunt. I would love being able to set a time on the contact, after which it deletes itself though. What I'm more worried about is the CREST API stuff surrounding it. For those of you who poked around with https://spreadsheetsin.space/year-in-review/ will have seen that it shows how many times OTHERS have added you as a contact. If this is available through the API for all, then things change. Being able to write a tool that'll notify you if someone else watchlists you will be a big change that I'm not sure would be in the best interest of all. Good to see you throwing questions around though, keep it up. I don't recall that site displaying when someone added you to a watch list. Only that they have added you as a contact to set standings. There are many many many pilots who I have listed as a contact for standings purposes who are not and would likely never be added to a watch list because I don't care when they are online. Only that I see standings indicators in the overview and local if I see them in kspace. http://pasteboard.co/2ezc0sZd.png Yah I'm on a slight sidetrack to watchlists with this. If I can check my API for anytime someone sets a standing on me its just like they're sending me an evemail about it. That I'm not a big fan of. Generally anything that can be automated in the background I'm a bit wary of having available.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 3952	Posted - 2015.04.01 08:30:31 - [46] - Quote BayneNothos wrote: Alundil wrote: BayneNothos wrote: Watchlists are fine, you still have to see the guy or start running intel checks to get that watchlist contact. It's part of the hunt. I would love being able to set a time on the contact, after which it deletes itself though. What I'm more worried about is the CREST API stuff surrounding it. For those of you who poked around with https://spreadsheetsin.space/year-in-review/ will have seen that it shows how many times OTHERS have added you as a contact. If this is available through the API for all, then things change. Being able to write a tool that'll notify you if someone else watchlists you will be a big change that I'm not sure would be in the best interest of all. Good to see you throwing questions around though, keep it up. I don't recall that site displaying when someone added you to a watch list. Only that they have added you as a contact to set standings. There are many many many pilots who I have listed as a contact for standings purposes who are not and would likely never be added to a watch list because I don't care when they are online. Only that I see standings indicators in the overview and local if I see them in kspace. http://pasteboard.co/2ezc0sZd.png Yah I'm on a slight sidetrack to watchlists with this. If I can check my API for anytime someone sets a standing on me its just like they're sending me an evemail about it. That I'm not a big fan of. Generally anything that can be automated in the background I'm a bit wary of having available. Just going to jump in quickly to stop any fears about this. Our general rule with the API is that you cannot get anything in it you cannot get in game. The game does not tell you when someone adds you as a contact/watchlist unless the person checks that little box to do it. The API is not going to either, at least not in any directly useful way. When we did the yearly stats we thought it would be OK to add the number of times you have been added as a contact there because it's yearly aggregate information. There is no way to know in the last hour someone did it, all it tells you is X people did it in the year 2014. Unless the game changes to tell you this stuff in the client the API wont either. Hope that answers your questions/concerns about that. :) @CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Size Matters Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Altrue Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective 1700	Posted - 2015.04.01 09:29:42 - [47] - Quote The watchlist is fine. It indeed provides some level of information, but since its on a per-character basis, and not even on a per-account basis, it is not that powerful. To really use it to its full power, by -say- compiling a list of active supers pilots in an ennemy alliance, you need a lot of investment. Besides, logging off is a legitimate escape mecanism. As long as your ship continues to dissapear in space (after some delay, yes), it seems legitimate to have the ability to tell whever a pilot is online or not, as its the only possible indicator that a ship before you is doing this technique. Signature Tanking Best Tanking Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
Fermin Mascagranzas Recios Explorer Wing 8	Posted - 2015.04.01 12:06:10 - [48] - Quote Excuse my ignorance, but what is a watchlist? Sounds like something important for a newb adventuring in WH
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 625	Posted - 2015.04.01 12:07:52 - [49] - Quote how am I gonna convo people? W-Space Realtor
Strangelove Utama The Maythorn 0	Posted - 2015.04.01 12:35:34 - [50] - Quote I think watch lists should function sort of how the locator agents function. You would have to go to a "watch list agent" and they would tell you whether your target has been online in the past ~30 minutes. That way you wouldn't immediately know when Alliance A Bridging Titan logs in unless you were actively checking. This way you would still be able to get relatively accurate information but you would actually have to do something to get it. For those who use watch lists for social purposes perhaps make it function as it does now if both parties add each other.
Saisin State War Academy Caldari State 229	Posted - 2015.04.01 12:39:36 - [51] - Quote Fermin Mascagranzas wrote: Excuse my ignorance, but what is a watchlist? Sounds like something important for a newb adventuring in WH It is... Go check the active POSes in any WH (the ones with force field). Look Show Info, then click on corporation info for that tower, then attributes, then Founder and CEO characters and add them to contact, clicking add to checklist. You will immediately see if they are online or not in your notifications. You can also go to Eve-Who and do the same for all the active towers corps members and see who is connected and very likely lurking online and cloaked immediately. You can also check the killboards for that WH in the past 24 hours and do the same of any character showing up there. Counter is for everyone living in a WH to log in after downtime and cloak their alt in space after going AFK. It is only remotely possible for players that have the means to stay logged all day on a computer likely dedicated to Eve. Others are more or less screwed as the wtachlist will immediately warn of any connection of local inhabitants. Watchlist participates, amongst other things, of favoring the most well-to-do players that can remain logged all day long. "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo. solo? There is a new hope...
O'nira 13. Enigma Project 56	Posted - 2015.04.01 12:50:07 - [52] - Quote am fine with it staying, fine with it getting removed. i would get content from both personally wich is all i care abou
Arwatt Wahad MINETE Mining Exploration and Trading Enterprise 2	Posted - 2015.04.01 14:55:44 - [53] - Quote Strangelove Utama wrote: I think watch lists should function sort of how the locator agents function. You would have to go to a "watch list agent" and they would tell you whether your target has been online in the past ~30 minutes. That way you wouldn't immediately know when Alliance A Bridging Titan logs in unless you were actively checking. This way you would still be able to get relatively accurate information but you would actually have to do something to get it. For those who use watch lists for social purposes perhaps make it function as it does now if both parties add each other. Considering all that's being said, I believe this to be one of the most balanced options. Any player has the option to be watchlisted by friends for social reasons, while a "hunter" still have a tool to seek targets, but now that intel has a cost, and a delay like locator agents have.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 914	Posted - 2015.04.01 15:11:54 - [54] - Quote It's utter garbage that my aeon pilot (obviously not in a wh) can't log in w/out allerting potential prey that my bridge is now available to wonk up on them. Free intel on if my super is online or offline is game breaking. It's bad enough I can't dock the darn thing - everone and their brother knows when I log it in. We need to get rid of watch lists or at least destroy their present functionality. SOS - Save Our Supers!!!
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 914	Posted - 2015.04.01 15:29:12 - [55] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? How do you feel about local. If there we ever overpowered free intel... local chat would be it. Since you're a CSM and since you brought it up could you do us a favor and give your views as to the differences as you see them between the watchlist and local. Local - intant free intel you only have to be logged in for. Used costantly to avoid conflict. Allows risk free game play in all but WH. Watchlist - instant, but at least you have to do some up front work and add the dude for it to work (so not exactly 100% free). It's primarily used as an aid in creating conflict - not in avoiding it.
CivilWars Rolled Out Diplomatic Immunity. 285	Posted - 2015.04.01 15:32:13 - [56] - Quote Holy crap there are some whiny cunts in w-space these days. Back in my day... HTFU or GTFO. Hidden Fremen liked your forum post: Jack Miton liked your forum post:
scorchlikeshiswhiskey Totally Abstract O X I D E 389	Posted - 2015.04.01 15:52:57 - [57] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: It's utter garbage that my aeon pilot (obviously not in a wh) can't log in w/out allerting potential prey that my bridge is now available to wonk up on them. Free intel on if my super is online or offline is game breaking. It's bad enough I can't dock the darn thing - everone and their brother knows when I log it in. We need to get rid of watch lists or at least destroy their present functionality. SOS - Save Our Supers!!! Just to make a point, the watchlist function doesn't tell people that you logged in a super pilot, only that you logged in a pilot capable of flying a super. It's your problem, and a problem with mechanics, that that pilot logging in means a super logging in because they never eject from it. As for the locator agent idea, that sounds like a great idea if this were in a K-space forum but this is a J-space forum where we don't have the luxury of free intel available in station.
Chance Ravinne WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 155	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:04:21 - [58] - Quote I remember being shocked to learn watch lists didn't require mutual consent and offered 100% accurate and instant Intel the first time j figured out what they were. You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Obil Que Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance 229	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:23:06 - [59] - Quote Zappity wrote: Perfect, free intel is bad. Watchlists are OP. There is a good argument for them in a social context but that could be achieved by an approval mechanism from the other person. See this thread for more: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=386367 This, 100% It isn't just in wormhole space either, I've used watchlists to engage in "market PvP" and 0.01 people after they log off. It is used extensively in high-sec wardec'ing to keep tabs on the enemy without being anywhere near them. They should be changed to mutual approval to achieve the social goals and eliminate the free intel uses
Chance Ravinne WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 155	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:30:21 - [60] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Chance Ravinne wrote: I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? How do you feel about local. If there we ever overpowered free intel... local chat would be it. Since you're a CSM and since you brought it up could you do us a favor and give your views as to the differences as you see them between the watchlist and local. Local - intant free intel you only have to be logged in for. Used costantly to avoid conflict. Allows risk free game play in all but WH. Watchlist - instant, but at least you have to do some up front work and add the dude for it to work (so not exactly 100% free). It's primarily used as an aid in creating conflict - not in avoiding it. Well, the Intel of local is mutual. Everyone in local can see everyone else in local. I can by counter watch list everyone in a corp that's my target, and use that info unbeknownst to them to figure out when to run locator agents. Or for instance a corp I am camping can watch list me and know when not to run sites, or when to. Kind of detracts from the mystery of it for me. You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Obil Que Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance 229	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:31:34 - [61] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Chance Ravinne wrote: I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? How do you feel about local. If there we ever overpowered free intel... local chat would be it. Since you're a CSM and since you brought it up could you do us a favor and give your views as to the differences as you see them between the watchlist and local. Local - intant free intel you only have to be logged in for. Used costantly to avoid conflict. Allows risk free game play in all but WH. Watchlist - instant, but at least you have to do some up front work and add the dude for it to work (so not exactly 100% free). It's primarily used as an aid in creating conflict - not in avoiding it. Not Chance, but I can see one major distinction Local - only works in local Watchlist - works anywhere in New Eden Not saying Local is good, but it isn't of quite the same caliber, IMO, as the watchlist when it comes to scope
Mike Azariah The Scope Gallente Federation 2711	Posted - 2015.04.01 16:32:44 - [62] - Quote 100% accuracy . . . oh to be able to alter that number Have something that put a little random in it. False logins or delayed relay of information or both. Let them chase ghosts fora while. The closer you are to someone elses sov the more accurate they watchlist is, on your own turf? All of it becomes questionable. m Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯\|(pâä)/¯
Bienator II madmen of the skies 3226	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:18:27 - [63] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Just going to jump in quickly to stop any fears about this. Our general rule with the API is that you cannot get anything in it you cannot get in game. thats the theory, but something like the siphon problem might manifest again. Where API made a module nearly useless. how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 37	Posted - 2015.04.01 17:23:10 - [64] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Chance Ravinne wrote: blah blah blah blah eve is hard blah. Well, the Intel of local is mutual. Everyone in local can see everyone else in local. I can by counter watch list everyone in a corp that's my target, and use that info unbeknownst to them to figure out when to run locator agents. Or for instance a corp I am camping can watch list me and know when not to run sites, or when to. Kind of detracts from the mystery of it for me. The same way the corp you are camping watchlists you, the same way you watchlist them and know when they are running sites, or how many numbers do they have on, or if they are waiting for your bomber in a cloaky something. It's amazing I know! Every day you learn something new! *~lvl 60 paladin~*
Eanok POS Party Low-Class 11	Posted - 2015.04.01 20:56:25 - [65] - Quote Absolutely nothing wrong with the watch list. It's a necessary part of warfare and tactics.
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 1918	Posted - 2015.04.01 21:01:42 - [66] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: 100% accuracy . . . oh to be able to alter that number Have something that put a little random in it. False logins or delayed relay of information or both. Let them chase ghosts fora while. The closer you are to someone elses sov the more accurate they watchlist is, on your own turf? All of it becomes questionable. m Yes, a little bit of random would be good. Opt out would be even better. I don't like people knowing when I am logged on all the time. I sometimes feel obliged to do things that I'm not in the mood for. Sometimes it would be good just to log in quietly. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 6	Posted - 2015.04.01 21:34:42 - [67] - Quote Evan Roc wrote: SNIP .... They show both the hunted and hunter when the other in online, that's it. Many other factors involved before you consider them free intel This is not how they work: - I can put you on a watch list that will inform me when you are online and I can choose do this secretly. This behavior is unbalanced, ISK free and risk free. It needs to be removed with the exception of mutual approval - and - it should become a function of the locator agents with appropriate charges and a percentage of failure.
Eanok POS Party Low-Class 12	Posted - 2015.04.01 22:26:05 - [68] - Quote No watch list means filthy spineless cowards can run and hide with damn near impunity. Making changes just for the sake of making changes is just stupid. How about some polls on how POS changes are going to effect the wormhole community.
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 1919	Posted - 2015.04.01 22:34:27 - [69] - Quote Eanok wrote: No watch list means filthy spineless cowards can run and hide with damn near impunity. Making changes just for the sake of making changes is just stupid. It works both ways. It is also a strong defensive tool. It is OP in both directions. Honestly, the amount of noise the wormhole community makes about local is incredible but just mention nerfing the watchlist and suddenly things are different. Eanok wrote: How about some polls on how POS changes are going to effect the wormhole community. How about you go post in the relevant threads? Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Delegate Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 78	Posted - 2015.04.01 22:49:02 - [70] - Quote Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: The same way the corp you are camping watchlists you, the same way you watchlist them and know when they are running sites, or how many numbers do they have on, or if they are waiting for your bomber in a cloaky something. It's amazing I know! Every day you learn something new! And in the end a PVP game turns into risk management exercise. That is precisely what's wrong with intel like local or watchlists. Because it has no counter (except perhaps afk cloaking), it is 100% correct and it's given for free, players are encouraged to put excessive effort into risk avoidance. You then end up with ship spinning and afk cloaking threads.
BayneNothos United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 137	Posted - 2015.04.01 22:58:16 - [71] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Just going to jump in quickly to stop any fears about this. Our general rule with the API is that you cannot get anything in it you cannot get in game. The game does not tell you when someone adds you as a contact/watchlist unless the person checks that little box to do it. The API is not going to either, at least not in any directly useful way. When we did the yearly stats we thought it would be OK to add the number of times you have been added as a contact there because it's yearly aggregate information. There is no way to know in the last hour someone did it, all it tells you is X people did it in the year 2014. Unless the game changes to tell you this stuff in the client the API wont either. Hope that answers your questions/concerns about that. :) Awesome to know, thanks Socks Four :)
Eanok POS Party Low-Class 12	Posted - 2015.04.02 00:28:42 - [72] - Quote Zappity wrote: Eanok wrote: No watch list means filthy spineless cowards can run and hide with damn near impunity. Making changes just for the sake of making changes is just stupid. It works both ways. It is also a strong defensive tool. It is OP in both directions. Honestly, the amount of noise the wormhole community makes about local is incredible but just mention nerfing the watchlist and suddenly things are different. Eanok wrote: How about some polls on how POS changes are going to effect the wormhole community. How about you go post in the relevant threads? I'm fine with no local. How about you go polish Chance Ravine's shoes.
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 1922	Posted - 2015.04.02 00:33:00 - [73] - Quote Eanok wrote: Zappity wrote: Eanok wrote: No watch list means filthy spineless cowards can run and hide with damn near impunity. Making changes just for the sake of making changes is just stupid. It works both ways. It is also a strong defensive tool. It is OP in both directions. Honestly, the amount of noise the wormhole community makes about local is incredible but just mention nerfing the watchlist and suddenly things are different. Eanok wrote: How about some polls on how POS changes are going to effect the wormhole community. How about you go post in the relevant threads? I'm fine with no local. How about you go polish Chance Ravine's shoes. That's exactly my point. No local is good because it adds risk and challenge and makes the game better because free intel is bad and cheapens tactics and all the rest. Unless you're talking about watchlists, apparently, where all that stuff is just fine. FFS you can even record people's log on/off patterns with the notification feed just by setting the history and leaving your character logged in. Ridiculous. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 26299	Posted - 2015.04.02 04:59:05 - [74] - Quote Zappity wrote: That's exactly my point. No local is good because it adds risk and challenge and makes the game better because free intel is bad and cheapens tactics and all the rest. Unless you're talking about watchlists, apparently, where all that stuff is just fine. You can even record people's log on/off patterns with the notification feed just by setting the history to on and leaving your character logged in. Ridiculous. Yep, no local is good. That's partly why many wormholers enjoy living in w-space. In your other post you mentioned wormhole community makes noise about no local? Wat.gif? Why would we? We're happy. Don't care about what goes on in k-space for the most part. The fact with watchlists is the majority of people don't have a problem and this honestly wouldn't even be a thing had Chance not made a thread about it. Nobody cared, other than a few scattered people, many of whom aren't even wormholers. Point in case is this thread that's predominantly full of people saying watchlists are fine. It's not wormholers making any noise really, other than to say "Away with this crap.". =ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ... Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Iyokus Patrouette Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 396	Posted - 2015.04.02 05:16:11 - [75] - Quote confirming 'Away with this crap' is my default response on the topic. ---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 1924	Posted - 2015.04.02 05:37:38 - [76] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: Yep, no local is good. That's partly why many wormholers enjoy living in w-space. In your other post you mentioned wormhole community makes noise about no local? Wat.gif? Why would we? We're happy. Don't care about what goes on in k-space for the most part. I obviously wasn't clear enough, sorry. I know that you like no local. It seems strange to me that you are so keen on preserving other perfect intel. The wormhole community always teases null about local because it makes things easy. Candi LeMew wrote: The fact with watchlists is the majority of people don't have a problem and this honestly wouldn't even be a thing had Chance not made a thread about it. Nobody cared, other than a few scattered people, many of whom aren't even wormholers. Point in case is this thread that's predominantly full of people saying watchlists are fine. It's not wormholers making any noise really, other than to say "Away with this crap.". There have been threads about this before. Watchlist doesn't care if you are in a wormhole or k-space so it is not only a wormhole issue. Oh, and more people in this thread are advocating for some sort of change than those who want the status quo. You can count them if you want. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 26300	Posted - 2015.04.02 06:00:03 - [77] - Quote Zappity wrote: I obviously wasn't clear enough, sorry. I know that you like no local. It seems strange to me that you are so keen on preserving other perfect intel. People keep using the word "intel" and it just doesn't feel right. I like having no local. Not for any intel related reason directly, but simply because of the atmosphere it gives to w-space. Cloak and dagger. In terms of watchlists it's just a tool and feature that I don't feel degrades from this atmosphere at all. Quite simply, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Zappity wrote: The wormhole community always teases null about local because it makes things easy. They/we do? I thought it had more to do with gates, stations and F1 megablobs and the people who like that stuff. Zappity wrote: There have been threads about this before. Watchlist doesn't care if you are in a wormhole or k-space so it is not only a wormhole issue. Oh, and more people in this thread are advocating for some sort of change than those who want the status quo. You can count them if you want. Sure. Look around features and ideas and you'll find threads on pretty much anything and everything, great ideas to terrible ones. But because threads have been made previously doesn't really mean much (worth noting it's not really been a discussion topic in this section before ... which tells you something). I mean heck, I've made suggestions for fashion related improvements, but that doesn't mean because I made a thread it's an actual thing (as much as I wish it would be). To me, keeping the appearance of physically simulated hair in final, rendered portraits is a much more pressing issue than watchlists. (corbexx ) This is wormholes, where people are stylish and complain about POS mechanics, Jack Miton and arranged fights. Not watchlists and local. As for this thread I have no need to tally up those for/against/abstain. I've lived in wormholes for almost five years and I've never heard anyone raise watchlists as a serious or vital issue. Never. I get that same vibe as I read this thread. =ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ... Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Krops Vont Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 52	Posted - 2015.04.02 09:19:10 - [78] - Quote You can go about this multiple ways. Remove it from w-space usability. Every time you are in a wormhole, it doesn't work. Delay it, make it take time for online to show. FozzieFatigueGäó it. The more contacts you add, the less it works or something like that. Contacts only work on grid. Contacts only work if both parties have each other added. You require to place a structure where contacts work system wide. (This probably is skewed for those with TS or Solo) Remove watchlist from the game. Game changing, but think about it. As with any human, we must map out everything for the sake of living. So what happens when you put the same aspect in a game with random events? They go nuts trying to figure out how to predict and map out everything.
Pissfat Reverse Production 64	Posted - 2015.04.02 09:30:27 - [79] - Quote So much sooking in this thread about such a small thing really. Leave it be. I am Winthorp, you may remember me from such films as....
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1580	Posted - 2015.04.02 10:13:11 - [80] - Quote Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: ... The same way the corp you are camping watchlists you, the same way you watchlist them and know when they are running sites, or how many numbers do they have on, or if they are waiting for your bomber in a cloaky something.... do you have access to personal data of all the people who has access to yours in RL (talking about government, your company, etc...)? Or maybe you have access to financial data of your bank like they have access to your? Hint: watchlist gives you ability to watch for someone but it's not that you always know who you can watch. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Obil Que Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance 231	Posted - 2015.04.02 12:53:02 - [81] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: Zappity wrote: That's exactly my point. No local is good because it adds risk and challenge and makes the game better because free intel is bad and cheapens tactics and all the rest. Unless you're talking about watchlists, apparently, where all that stuff is just fine. You can even record people's log on/off patterns with the notification feed just by setting the history to on and leaving your character logged in. Ridiculous. Yep, no local is good. That's partly why many wormholers enjoy living in w-space. In your other post you mentioned wormhole community makes noise about no local? Wat.gif? Why would we? We're happy. Don't care about what goes on in k-space for the most part. The fact with watchlists is the majority of people don't have a problem and this honestly wouldn't even be a thing had Chance not made a thread about it. Nobody cared, other than a few scattered people, many of whom aren't even wormholers. Point in case is this thread that's predominantly full of people saying watchlists are fine. It's not wormholers making any noise really, other than to say "Away with this crap.". People here also cried the sky is falling when the wormhole mass jump changes were discussed because they didn't want their MO to change. The list of negative effects of non-consensual watchlist is extensive Observing player log on/log off behavior without being present (sound familiar to NPC kill API? Positive this is still being used to do logoff-ski's by knowing when the target logs in) Correlating character behavior (matching mains to alts) through no active action other than log off/log on patterns (very important to gauge the number of real pilots in a corporation) Altering to war target activity without being in system (in local) Monitoring super/titan pilots for activity from anywhere in New Eden (see all the PL multi-year drops on pilots after watching for them) Market PvP when a player logs off Watchlisting an entire corporation to know their online numbers without scouting Tracking people camping/nomading in your wormhole (done this myself) Name me one benefit to the watchlist the is not available through consensual watchlisting (ie: social connections) that falls into the arena of valid active information gathering. It seems to me that the people here that have no problem with watchlisting simply want the above benefits without having to do any scouting/active observing of their targets other than finding their corp name and watchlisting everyone on evewho.
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 26312	Posted - 2015.04.02 13:15:53 - [82] - Quote Obil Que wrote: Name me one benefit to the watchlist the is not available through consensual watchlisting (ie: social connections) that falls into the arena of valid active information gathering. It seems to me that the people here that have no problem with watchlisting simply want the above benefits without having to do any scouting/active observing of their targets other than finding their corp name and watchlisting everyone on evewho. Well you see the thing is, I don't have to name anything or prove anything. You are the one who wants to change what is already a part of the game I'm fine with, so that falls on your shoulders and by your logic we should nerf forums, character sheets, employment history, corp and pretty much everything unless you're on grid with a pilot. How far do we take this "free intel" silliness? It functions fine for both social and tactical use and it's balanced. The intel gained by it is negligible because it can work both ways. It's just one of the aspects of the world here that we live with. At the end of the day it's still a game that needs to provide some conveniences for it's players. Essentially all of this from page 1 lol: Seraph Essael wrote: Watchlists are fine. Its funny people complain about them even though they don't know they are watchlisted unless you check them to notify. So, I am sat at a POS, watching this Domi, hoping he runs sites. I turn away for two secs to sort out the cat. Turn round and he's gone. If he logs off it tells me and I can go do other stuff instead. If it doesn't I'm left with my thumb up my arse wondering if he's online... The watchlist doesn't tell you where said person is, what ship they're in, what fleet they're in or what friends they have. There is nothing wrong with the watchlist system and it should be left that way. Who gives a **** if you're being watchlisted, I'm probably on multiple watchlists, the horror, they know when I log in!!! It works both ways: I'm hunting them, they see me come in due to a scout who drags my name into a channel the people in the wormhole all watchlist me... Does it impede the way I play... Nope... Should it? Nope... Tl;dr: See first sentence. shrugs There's really nothing more to say. =ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ... Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Obil Que Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance 232	Posted - 2015.04.02 15:38:31 - [83] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: Obil Que wrote: Name me one benefit to the watchlist the is not available through consensual watchlisting (ie: social connections) that falls into the arena of valid active information gathering. It seems to me that the people here that have no problem with watchlisting simply want the above benefits without having to do any scouting/active observing of their targets other than finding their corp name and watchlisting everyone on evewho. Well you see the thing is, I don't have to name anything or prove anything. You are the one who wants to change what is already a part of the game I'm fine with, so that falls on your shoulders and by your logic we should nerf forums, character sheets, employment history, corp and pretty much everything unless you're on grid with a pilot. How far do we take this "free intel" silliness? It functions fine for both social and tactical use and it's balanced. The intel gained by it is negligible because it can work both ways. It's just one of the aspects of the world here that we live with. At the end of the day it's still a game that needs to provide some conveniences for it's players. The intel gained is not somehow diminished because you have the same tool at your disposal. There is no balance in the tactical use. The notion that it works both ways tactically is flawed. Yes, it is a tool that can be used by both parties, but it is not a mechanic that you know is being used on you therefore you have no indication to respond. It does not alert you that you are being watchlisted. I could be on hundreds of watchlists and have no idea that it is the case so how do I tactically have the ability to respond to those gathering intel on me specifically? Yes, locator agents operate in a similar way but it is at least tempered with a cost to the user and requirement for standings and location and not freely given through no effort.
MooMooDachshundCow Incertae Sedis 206	Posted - 2015.04.02 16:08:29 - [84] - Quote I don't think that watchlist abuse really creates so much intel as to be a major swing factor either way. That said, I think it would be really interesting if watch list behaviors mimicked ratting API's/local in this way: 1. If you login to a system with local, you show on watchlists. 2. If you login to a wormhole system (or Thera) with no local, then watchlist doesn't automatically pop up. 3. This would be exempted for people that are on your personal watchlist as friendly, who would still always see you. Perhaps also members of your corp/alliance, or at least the director-level members. 4. Once you jump into k-space you show up on watchlists of anyone maybe? 5. Perhaps going back to a WH would take you back off? This would be a good fix for the current meta. No reason that WH space should give anyone free intel. Also worth noting if nobody has yet that this would somewhat benefit smaller corps as they are the easiest to watchlist the whole group, and have fewer alts. Yeah, well, it's just like my-á*opinion*, man.
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1242	Posted - 2015.04.02 16:20:08 - [85] - Quote MooMooDachshundCow wrote: I don't think that watchlist abuse really creates so much intel as to be a major swing factor either way. That said, I think it would be really interesting if watch list behaviors mimicked ratting API's/local in this way: 1. If you login to a system with local, you show on watchlists. 2. If you login to a wormhole system (or Thera) with no local, then watchlist doesn't automatically pop up. 3. This would be exempted for people that are on your personal watchlist as friendly, who would still always see you. Perhaps also members of your corp/alliance, or at least the director-level members. 4. Once you jump into k-space you show up on watchlists of anyone maybe? 5. Perhaps going back to a WH would take you back off? This would be a good fix for the current meta. No reason that WH space should give anyone free intel. Also worth noting if nobody has yet that this would somewhat benefit smaller corps as they are the easiest to watchlist the whole group, and have fewer alts. Nobody is arguing that it isn't great Intel or crap Intel, the argument seems to revolve around it being both uncontrollable intel, and free Intel. Opt out system? Everybody would do it by default (mostly everybody). If so, then there should be a way to do that type of monitoring even if they opt out of it, but it should cost you. Abilities stay, it's just not free unless it's consensual between friends, ally's, corps, etc. it doesn't have to cost billions, but a person shouldn't have the ability to watchlist half of new Eden with impunity, for free. I do find it a bit wierd that this hasn't been iterated on. Nobody disagrees with keeping watch lists, but it is essentially free Intel. Yaay!!!!
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 37	Posted - 2015.04.02 16:21:19 - [86] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: ... The same way the corp you are camping watchlists you, the same way you watchlist them and know when they are running sites, or how many numbers do they have on, or if they are waiting for your bomber in a cloaky something.... do you have access to personal data of all the people who has access to yours in RL (talking about government, your company, etc...)? Or maybe you have access to financial data of your bank like they have access to your? Hint: watchlist gives you ability to watch for someone but it's not that you always know who you can watch. Just the fact that you compared a spaceship game to rl tells me a lot of intel about you. *~lvl 60 paladin~*
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 158	Posted - 2015.04.02 20:14:00 - [87] - Quote So first lets remove local from null sec. About watchlists, make it concentual , problem of to much intell solved. If both needs to agree then you can still keep the social part of the system. The rest of the intel you should be able to get with eyeball on the pos and or new structures.
Krops Vont Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 55	Posted - 2015.04.02 20:32:05 - [88] - Quote Watchlist only does half the play. Tells you if they are on or off, not if they are in the same wormhole as you. ;) As with any human, we must map out everything for the sake of living. So what happens when you put the same aspect in a game with random events? They go nuts trying to figure out how to predict and map out everything.
Chance Ravinne WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 164	Posted - 2015.04.02 22:42:57 - [89] - Quote I started this thread on a lark yet it seems like a very divisive issue. I think it would be possible to preserve both the social nature of watch lists and the spookiness of j space. You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2223	Posted - 2015.04.02 23:00:59 - [90] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? OK, here's my take on this. When your clowns came into my hole, and set up EVE's Second Least Impressive Wormhole Camp (you outdid yourselves this week, btw) I parked an alt on the wormhole entrance and added every idiot who jumped through. I went to zkillboard and researched each idiot to determine which other clown-arse moron he flew with. Soon i had scried out who was in my hole, which one had a bomber and who had a Falcon, who had a 800M Wingspan "doctrine" Stratios spendo-punching bag. I had a good idea who was in my hole, and since they were on watchlists, and i had researched their behaviour on zkillboard, I came to a conclusion. #1 - You are all US TZ and you were "hell camping" an AU TZ corp #2 - As long as we didn't idle n the wormhole with MWD's running in a T1 frigate, we would be fine, because bomber camps against 150K EHP cloaky proteuses are, well, pretty damn pointless #3 - I could tell who was online, what they were flying, and address the risk and alleged threat your clowns posed at any one time. The watchlist was not the be-all and end-all of my intelligence gathering. Researching zkillboard and using half of one fifth of my brain was the majority of it. I realised immediately, you and yours had no real teeth. You hadn't sieged anyone out. Haulers and mining barges would kill your bombers more often than not. You needed 12 guys to do anything. We could, and did, go about our business without interference. Finally, you were engaged in a collossal waste of time because your idiots never once brought a decent interdiction option to the field. So is a watchlist bad? No. it's a tool. A small and ineffectual tool. Which is why a small and ineffectual tool is trying to get it removed I suppose. Sure, it's prone to abuse. Blood Union would invest billions of ISK in dreads, dread alts, etc, and seed hem into C5's inhabited by bears and pull logon traps partly informed by watchlists. But, and I'll educate you about what really happened because you weren't even playing the game when it happened, BU quit wormholes mostly when CCP removed API kill logging support and jump logging from wormhole systems, thereby invalidating BU's intel tool known as Siggy. BU didn't even need to WL their victims to pull logon traps. a WL pinging with sign-ons is handy but it wouldn't have stopped them without the removal of NPC kill logging and jump logging which just showed a nice red or yellow flag on the holes in Siggy. Would i want WL's removed? no. You know why? i have friends. Without a WL, the only way I now my friends, enemies and frienemies are online is to be in the same channel as them (local or otherwise). Sure, some people may hate the fact I WL their whole active member base, but the key is that you and yours didn't get kills because a Wl informed me you were online. You didnt get kills because you were bad. Then you turned tail and ran abecause your corp is pathetic and weak when it comes to a pitched battle. if you hate the fact that camping a hole for weeks with bombers merely sees you get added to Wl and your sign on is greeted by derision in Local, well tough. Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014. Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Tibo Paralian Dirt 'n' Glitter 46	Posted - 2015.04.02 23:41:27 - [91] - Quote From a lore/immersion point of view, it would be more believable if watchlists were tied to empire business. For example, instead of the watchlist showing as a green arrow for online, it would say 'last seen XX minutes ago'. By seen, any of the following could be used; used a stargate, dock in a station, using station services, talking to agents, a bounty being paid, etc. As in anything that requires the use of empire structures/services. From a social point of view, corp/alliance and other chat channels already function as a watchlist.
Chance Ravinne WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 164	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:21:59 - [92] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: Chance Ravinne wrote: I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? OK, here's my take on this. When your clowns came into my hole, and set up EVE's Second Least Impressive Wormhole Camp (you outdid yourselves this week, btw) I parked an alt on the wormhole entrance and added every idiot who jumped through. I went to zkillboard and researched each idiot to determine which other clown-arse moron he flew with. Soon i had scried out who was in my hole, which one had a bomber and who had a Falcon, who had a 800M Wingspan "doctrine" Stratios spendo-punching bag. I had a good idea who was in my hole, and since they were on watchlists, and i had researched their behaviour on zkillboard, I came to a conclusion. #1 - You are all US TZ and you were "hell camping" an AU TZ corp #2 - As long as we didn't idle n the wormhole with MWD's running in a T1 frigate, we would be fine, because bomber camps against 150K EHP cloaky proteuses are, well, pretty damn pointless #3 - I could tell who was online, what they were flying, and address the risk and alleged threat your clowns posed at any one time. The watchlist was not the be-all and end-all of my intelligence gathering. Researching zkillboard and using half of one fifth of my brain was the majority of it. I realised immediately, you and yours had no real teeth. You hadn't sieged anyone out. Haulers and mining barges would kill your bombers more often than not. You needed 12 guys to do anything. We could, and did, go about our business without interference. Finally, you were engaged in a collossal waste of time because your idiots never once brought a decent interdiction option to the field. So is a watchlist bad? No. it's a tool. A small and ineffectual tool. Which is why a small and ineffectual tool is trying to get it removed I suppose. Sure, it's prone to abuse. Blood Union would invest billions of ISK in dreads, dread alts, etc, and seed hem into C5's inhabited by bears and pull logon traps partly informed by watchlists. But, and I'll educate you about what really happened because you weren't even playing the game when it happened, BU quit wormholes mostly when CCP removed API kill logging support and jump logging from wormhole systems, thereby invalidating BU's intel tool known as Siggy. BU didn't even need to WL their victims to pull logon traps. a WL pinging with sign-ons is handy but it wouldn't have stopped them without the removal of NPC kill logging and jump logging which just showed a nice red or yellow flag on the holes in Siggy. Would i want WL's removed? no. You know why? i have friends. Without a WL, the only way I now my friends, enemies and frienemies are online is to be in the same channel as them (local or otherwise). Sure, some people may hate the fact I WL their whole active member base, but the key is that you and yours didn't get kills because a Wl informed me you were online. You didnt get kills because you were bad. Then you turned tail and ran abecause your corp is pathetic and weak when it comes to a pitched battle. if you hate the fact that camping a hole for weeks with bombers merely sees you get added to Wl and your sign on is greeted by derision in Local, well tough. Trinkets when I read your posts I ignore all the parts about me and my corp being bad, because we aren't supposed to be good and frankly it has no affect on my wallet or general standings in Eve. So instead I will address your points, of which there seem to be two. One, you used watch lists to gather Intel that you called useless. Sounds like an argument for its removal. Second you said you want to use it for chatting. Consensual lists resolve that. You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 26317	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:49:37 - [93] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: One, you used watch lists to gather Intel that you called useless. Sounds like an argument for its removal. He said it was a small part of what contributed overall to an intel picture. Other things such as killboards for example were used. So I'm guessing you'd advocate for their removal too since it costs nothing to use them as intel. I'd also imagine you'd recommend all your pilots not register APIs on killboards too as that willing gives out "free intel" that can be avoided, right? Because it's all the same thing. ^^ What is this thread even doing in this section anyway? Thank Bob I wear goggles 'cause it burns my eyes. It's not a divisive topic, btw. It's just that you made it into one. =ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ... Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Pissfat Reverse Production 67	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:52:49 - [94] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: It's not a divisive topic, btw. It's just that you made it into one. Pretty much this. This is why it is really bad when a CSM has their own agenda. I am Winthorp, you may remember me from such films as....
Saisin State War Academy Caldari State 237	Posted - 2015.04.03 01:33:48 - [95] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: It's not a divisive topic, btw. It's just that you made it into one. It is a divisive topic, you are simply on the side of the current statu-quo. But it does belong with the larger discussion about local in Null, and I am glad a CSM member is bringing this up. Risk free intel is not good for the game, and watch list should only be available when both sides agree to it. "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo. solo? There is a new hope...
Saisin State War Academy Caldari State 237	Posted - 2015.04.03 01:36:47 - [96] - Quote Pissfat wrote: This is why it is really bad when a CSM has their own agenda. lol... seriously? Each CSM member/candidate has their own agenda, for the group/play style they represent or the powers that put them in place. Believing otherwise is naive. "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo. solo? There is a new hope...
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 26318	Posted - 2015.04.03 01:37:56 - [97] - Quote Pissfat wrote: Candi LeMew wrote: It's not a divisive topic, btw. It's just that you made it into one. Pretty much this. This is why it is really bad when a CSM has their own agenda. Of all the things you could be concentrating on for WH space right now like the MASSIVE structure/pos changes you choose to spend some of your first actions delving into a non issue like bloody watchlists. It really does feel like that. So many more issues with real relevancy for wormholers and w-space. With Chance's niche approach to w-space he's going to fight an uphill battle to win many hearts and minds in the w-space community, but that's only made more difficult with topics like this which are just as niche. If you're into that stuff though, Chance and need a topic to cut your teeth on, come fix this for me, please. Saisin wrote: Candi LeMew wrote: It's not a divisive topic, btw. It's just that you made it into one. It is a divisive topic, you are simply on the side of the current statu-quo. But it does belong with the larger discussion about local in Null, and I am glad a CSM member is bringing this up. Risk free intel is not good for the game, and watch list should only be available when both sides agree to it. It's like talking to an automated, AI reply. =ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ... Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Chance Ravinne WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 165	Posted - 2015.04.03 01:57:39 - [98] - Quote Pissfat wrote: Candi LeMew wrote: It's not a divisive topic, btw. It's just that you made it into one. Pretty much this. This is why it is really bad when a CSM has their own agenda. Of all the things you could be concentrating on for WH space right now like the MASSIVE structure/pos changes you choose to spend some of your first actions delving into a non issue like bloody watchlists. Hey thanks for the feedback guys! Just two quick things: 1. Although I'm a CSM member, I hope you don't expect every single forum post I make going forward is part of some sinister agenda! I just thought of this off the cuff while reading the AFK cloaking discussion. 2. I would guess from the Fanfest presentation that the details for structures and how they'd work in w-space is not exactly at "show this to Chance in April 2015" levels of readiness, but it will be on my mind for the future. 3. I think based on the responses in here there are some strong opinions about this system, and I haven't seen it talked about in a long time (ever?). Wahoo! You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 26319	Posted - 2015.04.03 02:17:09 - [99] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: 3. I think based on the responses in here there are some strong opinions about this system, and I haven't seen it talked about in a long time (ever?). Wahoo! Anyone can raise a non-issue and stand around all day trying to make it one. Results not surprising. 10/10 if it's a troll though. ^^ =ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ... Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 38	Posted - 2015.04.03 02:30:10 - [100] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: I started this thread on a lark yet it seems like a very divisive issue. I think it would be possible to preserve both the social nature of watch lists and the spookiness of j space. I think that you should play eve for a few years to grasp the basics, before thinking about any sort of change. Seeing as you are a year old player who became a CSM for (to me) unknown reasons. Stick to this for a year or two (until you upgrade to cloaky t3's or somethin) *~lvl 60 paladin~*
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 1929	Posted - 2015.04.03 11:36:11 - [101] - Quote I really wish there was a dislike button on this forum. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 946	Posted - 2015.04.03 11:39:43 - [102] - Quote Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: Chance Ravinne wrote: I started this thread on a lark yet it seems like a very divisive issue. I think it would be possible to preserve both the social nature of watch lists and the spookiness of j space. I think that you should play eve for a few years to grasp the basics, before thinking about any sort of change. Seeing as you are a year old player who became a CSM for (to me) unknown reasons. Stick to this for a year or two (until you upgrade to cloaky t3's or somethin) Because character age alwas translates to the person knowing what he's doing The number of supposedly noobs I ran across that were more proficient at what their doing after two months compared to people playing for five years is not lying: An ambitious person can exceed a year old vet in both understanding of the game mechanics and the execution. I've flown with people that had a skillqueue running sine 06 and still couldn't find their feet. There once was a rookie who asked what a cyno was, and he was told that it's sort of teleportation. Said Rookie deducted that cynos+bridges are the most broken, overpowered **** he's come across in any game. He was right, even before knowing what LP are. Watch lists are bad. They give you information. There is no way to counter this flow of information which leads to Watchlists are bad gamedesign because they have no counter avaiable besides not playing. It might be argued that a lack of invisible mode for playing is due to eve being an old game and those things not being considered back then, doesn't mean it's not time to get it up to date. Inb4 you pull off a QEX and cry everyone a river how removal of watchlisting will be the end of all things.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 919	Posted - 2015.04.03 12:08:49 - [103] - Quote Getting rid of the watch list allows the risk averse players to be more risk aversetical. Getting rid of it is bad. It removes a mechanism that enhances the ability to blow up another dudes space stuff. I use the watch list to blow folks up. Folks that don't like fighting on my terms want to take my tools away. I'm ok w/ folks using the watch list the same way I do to exploit me and blow me up. That's part of the game. The drive to remove watch list functionality boils down directly to risk aversion. This whole attempt to get rid of the watch list is an attempt to make eve more risk averse. It's that simple. Any advantages w/ gimping or removing the current watch list stem soley from the desire of risk averse folks to be free of those who hunt them. What we have here is a null sec CSM trying to rip the non-consentual pvp soul out of eve. He came to the wh forums for support. Please kick him back to CAOD. Hey null sec CSM dude, if you want to get rid of free intel - start w/ local. We've already proven in wh space that you can survive w/out it. Once you get rid of local in null and low sex, then come back w/ your grand ideas. TL/DR Get out!!
Obil Que Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance 233	Posted - 2015.04.03 12:20:42 - [104] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Getting rid of the watch list allows the risk averse players to be more risk aversetical. Getting rid of it is bad. It removes a mechanism that enhances the ability to blow up another dudes space stuff. What is more risk averse then gathering intel on people without being outside their POS shield? Serendipity Lost wrote: I use the watch list to blow folks up. Folks that don't like fighting on my terms want to take my tools away. I'm ok w/ folks using the watch list the same way I do to exploit me and blow me up. That's part of the game. The drive to remove watch list functionality boils down directly to risk aversion. This whole attempt to get rid of the watch list is an attempt to make eve more risk averse. It's that simple. Any advantages w/ gimping or removing the current watch list stem soley from the desire of risk averse folks to be free of those who hunt them. I want people who gather intel to have to endure risk to do it. Be in space. Be at my POS. Don't gather intel on me from across New Eden with zero risk to yourself to know my patterns and activities. I see nothing but risk averse people wanting to have their perfect intel on my activities handed to them on a silver platter. I want those people to have to be in space directly and actively gathering intel at risk to themselves for doing it. Yes, I want to take your tool away. Your zero effort, zero risk tool to hunt with.
Chance Ravinne WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 166	Posted - 2015.04.03 12:21:30 - [105] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Getting rid of the watch list allows the risk averse players to be more risk aversetical. Getting rid of it is bad. It removes a mechanism that enhances the ability to blow up another dudes space stuff. I use the watch list to blow folks up. Folks that don't like fighting on my terms want to take my tools away. I'm ok w/ folks using the watch list the same way I do to exploit me and blow me up. That's part of the game. The drive to remove watch list functionality boils down directly to risk aversion. This whole attempt to get rid of the watch list is an attempt to make eve more risk averse. It's that simple. Any advantages w/ gimping or removing the current watch list stem soley from the desire of risk averse folks to be free of those who hunt them. What we have here is a null sec CSM trying to rip the non-consentual pvp soul out of eve. He came to the wh forums for support. Please kick him back to CAOD. Hey null sec CSM dude, if you want to get rid of free intel - start w/ local. We've already proven in wh space that you can survive w/out it. Once you get rid of local in null and low sex, then come back w/ your grand ideas. TL/DR Get out!! I'm not sure where you got the impression that I'm a null sec player but I think fifteen seconds on my killboard will reveal I'm actually a (really unskilled) wormhole nomad. You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 919	Posted - 2015.04.03 12:27:21 - [106] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Getting rid of the watch list allows the risk averse players to be more risk aversetical. Getting rid of it is bad. It removes a mechanism that enhances the ability to blow up another dudes space stuff. I use the watch list to blow folks up. Folks that don't like fighting on my terms want to take my tools away. I'm ok w/ folks using the watch list the same way I do to exploit me and blow me up. That's part of the game. The drive to remove watch list functionality boils down directly to risk aversion. This whole attempt to get rid of the watch list is an attempt to make eve more risk averse. It's that simple. Any advantages w/ gimping or removing the current watch list stem soley from the desire of risk averse folks to be free of those who hunt them. What we have here is a null sec CSM trying to rip the non-consentual pvp soul out of eve. He came to the wh forums for support. Please kick him back to CAOD. Hey null sec CSM dude, if you want to get rid of free intel - start w/ local. We've already proven in wh space that you can survive w/out it. Once you get rid of local in null and low sex, then come back w/ your grand ideas. TL/DR Get out!! I'm not sure where you got the impression that I'm a null sec player but I think fifteen seconds on my killboard will reveal I'm actually a (really unskilled) wormhole nomad. I have you watchlisted and have figured out who this alt belongs to. Let's not pretend this is your only account and that you magically as a year old player made it to the CSM based on your bad ideas and poor kb. That's a bit much to make even a below average wh player believe. (pro hint: don't log off one character and immediately log on another or a log in a wave of characters over 2 minutes until you get the watch list removed fromt the game).
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 920	Posted - 2015.04.03 12:40:17 - [107] - Quote Obil Que wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Getting rid of the watch list allows the risk averse players to be more risk aversetical. Getting rid of it is bad. It removes a mechanism that enhances the ability to blow up another dudes space stuff. What is more risk averse then gathering intel on people without being outside their POS shield? Serendipity Lost wrote: I use the watch list to blow folks up. Folks that don't like fighting on my terms want to take my tools away. I'm ok w/ folks using the watch list the same way I do to exploit me and blow me up. That's part of the game. The drive to remove watch list functionality boils down directly to risk aversion. This whole attempt to get rid of the watch list is an attempt to make eve more risk averse. It's that simple. Any advantages w/ gimping or removing the current watch list stem soley from the desire of risk averse folks to be free of those who hunt them. I want people who gather intel to have to endure risk to do it. Be in space. Be at my POS. Don't gather intel on me from across New Eden with zero risk to yourself to know my patterns and activities. I see nothing but risk averse people wanting to have their perfect intel on my activities handed to them on a silver platter. I want those people to have to be in space directly and actively gathering intel at risk to themselves for doing it. Yes, I want to take your tool away. Your zero effort, zero risk tool to hunt with. So here's how I use it. You're on grid - I watch list you. We play wh space games for a short period of time (measured in a few hours). If you log off or if my connection to you goes away - I have no further interest in you. Every few days I delete you from my watchlist as the endless flasing of the log in / log out icons nauseates me. You're a long time space pal - I watch list you and put you in a folder. I deal w/ your icons flashing in the corner as you lod in and out because I like you. Occaisionally I'll convo you or what not as is appropriate for long time space pals. You're a contact of interest - I watch list you. I actively see you log in and out and try to group you w/ other folks, maybe nail down some log in habits. Maybe nail down that you don't log in and only play forums. All the kind of stuff guys hate about free no risk intel - yeah I do some of that too. I would prefer to keep the first two and could live w/out the third one, but you can't seperate the first from the third. You just can't. Keep it. You'll have to just trust me that I don't sit behind pos shields all day and that I actually play the game. Take last night, I sat in an anom for almost an hour in a drake until the wh inhabitants showed up to gank me. Had I not non-consentually wl the legion pilot I would not have known he was watching me. We probably would have rolled away from him and missed an opportunity to flip their gank attempt on them. I'm not risk averse AND I want to keep the wl for pvp reasons. Don't try to arbitrarily paint me otherwise.
Obil Que Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance 233	Posted - 2015.04.03 12:59:05 - [108] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: So here's how I use it. You're on grid - I watch list you. We play wh space games for a short period of time (measured in a few hours). If you log off or if my connection to you goes away - I have no further interest in you. Every few days I delete you from my watchlist as the endless flasing of the log in / log out icons nauseates me. You're a long time space pal - I watch list you and put you in a folder. I deal w/ your icons flashing in the corner as you lod in and out because I like you. Occaisionally I'll convo you or what not as is appropriate for long time space pals. You're a contact of interest - I watch list you. I actively see you log in and out and try to group you w/ other folks, maybe nail down some log in habits. Maybe nail down that you don't log in and only play forums. All the kind of stuff guys hate about free no risk intel - yeah I do some of that too. I would prefer to keep the first two and could live w/out the third one, but you can't seperate the first from the third. You just can't. Keep it. You'll have to just trust me that I don't sit behind pos shields all day and that I actually play the game. Take last night, I sat in an anom for almost an hour in a drake until the wh inhabitants showed up to gank me. Had I not non-consentually wl the legion pilot I would not have known he was watching me. We probably would have rolled away from him and missed an opportunity to flip their gank attempt on them. I'm not risk averse AND I want to keep the wl for pvp reasons. Don't try to arbitrarily paint me otherwise. In many ways you make my argument for me. In what way should you have the intel to know the legion pilot was watching you without having to devote a resource to physically observing him? Instead you avoided the risk or need to have a second pilot for scouting and chose to use the watchlist to achive that intel gathering. That is avoiding risk and avoiding playing a part of the game in my book.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 920	Posted - 2015.04.03 13:36:59 - [109] - Quote Obil Que wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: So here's how I use it. You're on grid - I watch list you. We play wh space games for a short period of time (measured in a few hours). If you log off or if my connection to you goes away - I have no further interest in you. Every few days I delete you from my watchlist as the endless flasing of the log in / log out icons nauseates me. You're a long time space pal - I watch list you and put you in a folder. I deal w/ your icons flashing in the corner as you lod in and out because I like you. Occaisionally I'll convo you or what not as is appropriate for long time space pals. You're a contact of interest - I watch list you. I actively see you log in and out and try to group you w/ other folks, maybe nail down some log in habits. Maybe nail down that you don't log in and only play forums. All the kind of stuff guys hate about free no risk intel - yeah I do some of that too. I would prefer to keep the first two and could live w/out the third one, but you can't seperate the first from the third. You just can't. Keep it. You'll have to just trust me that I don't sit behind pos shields all day and that I actually play the game. Take last night, I sat in an anom for almost an hour in a drake until the wh inhabitants showed up to gank me. Had I not non-consentually wl the legion pilot I would not have known he was watching me. We probably would have rolled away from him and missed an opportunity to flip their gank attempt on them. I'm not risk averse AND I want to keep the wl for pvp reasons. Don't try to arbitrarily paint me otherwise. In many ways you make my argument for me. In what way should you have the intel to know the legion pilot was watching you without having to devote a resource to physically observing him? Instead you avoided the risk or need to have a second pilot for scouting and chose to use the watchlist to achive that intel gathering. That is avoiding risk and avoiding playing a part of the game in my book. So not to go into a lot of detail, but... Lost was the C2 'afk' drake baiting in an anom (It was an armor wh and they had prot, legion, vexor and thorax - so I'd say at risk) Character B (feel free to use the WL mechanics to determine it's name) was in Immensea trying to pick a fight w/ a vaga. (we'll call this at risk even knowing the HAC was totally in fear of my orthrus and would not leave the station dock ring) Character C (again, feel free) is a noob scout alt w/ zero combat skills cloaked on a c5 of interest to see if any traffic was incoming that way. (you got me - cloaked noob scout alt being risk averse... in a wh... who would have imagined) I don't prove your point - I prove mine. Knowing the target was still online I was able to leave some tasty bait and pull him into a bad situation. It wasn't risk averse - it was using the available tools to multi task and increase my chances of some pew. And to be fair - they went for the drake bait looking to pvp - I didn't use the sinister watch list to surpise sex them... well ok, maybe I kind of did, but they warped to me first, not the other way around. Edit: also, the legion was cloaked watching me, so watching him would be kind of difficult. All I knew was that he was still online, so I kept the faith and the drake in the anom. You are grasping at straws.
Chance Ravinne WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 167	Posted - 2015.04.03 13:56:22 - [110] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Chance Ravinne wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Getting rid of the watch list allows the risk averse players to be more risk aversetical. Getting rid of it is bad. It removes a mechanism that enhances the ability to blow up another dudes space stuff. I use the watch list to blow folks up. Folks that don't like fighting on my terms want to take my tools away. I'm ok w/ folks using the watch list the same way I do to exploit me and blow me up. That's part of the game. The drive to remove watch list functionality boils down directly to risk aversion. This whole attempt to get rid of the watch list is an attempt to make eve more risk averse. It's that simple. Any advantages w/ gimping or removing the current watch list stem soley from the desire of risk averse folks to be free of those who hunt them. What we have here is a null sec CSM trying to rip the non-consentual pvp soul out of eve. He came to the wh forums for support. Please kick him back to CAOD. Hey null sec CSM dude, if you want to get rid of free intel - start w/ local. We've already proven in wh space that you can survive w/out it. Once you get rid of local in null and low sex, then come back w/ your grand ideas. TL/DR Get out!! I'm not sure where you got the impression that I'm a null sec player but I think fifteen seconds on my killboard will reveal I'm actually a (really unskilled) wormhole nomad. I have you watchlisted and have figured out who this alt belongs to. Let's not pretend this is your only account and that you magically as a year old player made it to the CSM based on your bad ideas and poor kb. That's a bit much to make even a below average wh player believe. (pro hint: don't log off one character and immediately log on another or a log in a wave of characters over 2 minutes until you get the watch list removed fromt the game). Yes this must be it. Despite having a presence on YouTube for the better part of a decade, I chose not to cash in on my EVE power all so I could run a false flag CSM campaign years later. I was secretly making hundreds of videos about other games this whole time just to fool the electorate of Eve! I'm that much of a genius. You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 4262	Posted - 2015.04.03 14:11:00 - [111] - Quote I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!b The Rules: 27. Off-topic posting is prohibited. Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster. Chance Ravinne wrote: 3. I think based on the responses in here there are some strong opinions about this system, and I haven't seen it talked about in a long time (ever?). Wahoo! It has, and in some case is, discussed in several threads. Some are even stickied and started by Devs (although not always on this specific subject alone, it does pop up during the discussions). ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.03 15:11:06 - [112] - Quote Pissfat wrote: Candi LeMew wrote: It's not a divisive topic, btw. It's just that you made it into one. Pretty much this. This is why it is really bad when a CSM has their own agenda. Of all the things you could be concentrating on for WH space right now like the MASSIVE structure/pos changes you choose to spend some of your first actions delving into a non issue like bloody watchlists. The MASSIVE changes to structure/pos in or out of WH space highlights the need to address these watch list issues. The impact on station flipping could be huge especially for small corps & alliances. An AFK alt waiting for that 'just right' moment when your watchlist tells you that, during a vulnerability timezone, Trinkets corp have all logged off early to watch the footy highlights. I vote we call the tactic a "RIFF" Risk Isk Free Flip
Hatshepsut IV Un.Reasonable 364	Posted - 2015.04.03 15:15:27 - [113] - Quote The removal of watchlist and contact lists would cause far more of a inconvenience then any misperceived gains. The activtity of pos watching turned into a hassle of having to keep 5-7 people online doing it at every pos isn't generating content. Its pointless busywork. Its the space equivalent of removing online billpay and saying the fun trip down to the office is an adventure. You too can start failing today! Reddit ad \| Cascading Failure Public Channel \| Aspiring Failure
CivilWars Rolled Out Diplomatic Immunity. 286	Posted - 2015.04.03 15:22:32 - [114] - Quote ISD Ezwal wrote: I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!b WORDS... I too agree civil is above all. Glad we have ISD confirmation. Hidden Fremen liked your forum post: Jack Miton liked your forum post:
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 41	Posted - 2015.04.03 15:23:24 - [115] - Quote I didn't know that pointing out the facts about the topic is off topic. I guess that you learn something new every day. *~lvl 60 paladin~*
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 4264	Posted - 2015.04.03 16:00:52 - [116] - Quote I have removed some rule breaking posts. The Rules: 12. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited. The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 41	Posted - 2015.04.03 17:56:42 - [117] - Quote remouv watchlist gud, such is life *~lvl 60 paladin~*
Altirius Saldiaro Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 326	Posted - 2015.04.03 19:29:30 - [118] - Quote I'd like for watchlist only to function based on the system I am in. WL player in my system logs in, I get notified. He logs out in same system, I get notified. He leaves system and logs out in another system, my watchlist displays that he is still online. Basically, unless the log in and/or log out happens in the same solar system as you, you have no idea if they are online. That being said, I also want local to be removed from all types of space.
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2231	Posted - 2015.04.04 00:08:20 - [119] - Quote ISD Ezwal wrote: I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil! The Rules: 27. Off-topic posting is prohibited. Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster. Chance Ravinne wrote: 3. I think based on the responses in here there are some strong opinions about this system, and I haven't seen it talked about in a long time (ever?). Wahoo! It has, and in some case is, discussed in several threads. Some are even stickied and started by Devs (although not always on this specific subject alone, it does pop up during the discussions). WHAT? Chance hasn't seen something that predates 2015?!?! Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014. Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1107	Posted - 2015.04.04 02:30:46 - [120] - Quote keep it and it's cool? get rid of it and it's cooler for supers? If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Chibi Katana Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin 13	Posted - 2015.04.04 02:34:05 - [121] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: keep it and it's cool? get rid of it and it's cooler for supers? About time you weighed in on this.
Insurance Agent Perkone Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.04.04 04:29:56 - [122] - Quote Let's use some logic: AFK cloak was basically the counter to watch listing, in old eve. And local was counter to cloaks, or so they say in the relevant threads. AFK Cloaks are going to get a possible counter, local is possibly being altered. If those changes go trough there is no reason why watch listing shouldn't change. EvE will become less predictable and that means more random fun. I know this was brought up in relevance to WH but original watchlist was implemented when WH were not even imagined. This alone should be a good enough reason to remove it now, since it does alter gameplay in space were the unknown is the most important feature. ps: I would much rather see outside third party free Intel tools disappear before WL
Orange Aideron Blue-Fire Great Blue Balls of Fire 61	Posted - 2015.04.04 12:35:33 - [123] - Quote OP needs clarification, watch list is also the name of the mechanic that allows fleet members to see the health status of other fleet members ships/pods. So ... can we have a module that disrupts the fleet, like kill boosts, or drops the fleet watchlist? also supers in wormholes, discuss. Also DLC's for soundtracks when we kill someone in space, I want to hear "RAMPAGE" when i kill 5 people in a row.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1108	Posted - 2015.04.04 13:27:13 - [124] - Quote Chibi Katana wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: keep it and it's cool? get rid of it and it's cooler for supers? About time you weighed in on this. I think it's the dumbest issue tbh. Only worrisome for v small WH corps or bears, otherwise why does it matter if people know when you're logging in? vov people complain too much about it If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 1021	Posted - 2015.04.04 13:54:23 - [125] - Quote Watchlists OP? Um...no. Logging out is OP. So I'm watching someone in a POS in WH space. They warp out. I can quickly determine they didn't go to a planet/moon/WH/site because I have everything bookmarked. So did they log out, or did they go to a safe and cloak up? I have no way to know even though I am actively watching them. In the real world you can't just vanish from the universe. The game has to have some mechanic to let you know, so you can go play with people that are actually logged in. Watch listing supers is a separate problem which I'm not convinced is a problem. But if you were to try and fix it, I guess you could do a sort of "delayed watchlist" where pilots would only show as online if you had confirmed it in game (seen them in local, been on grid with them in WH, etc.) Then you could still see if they logged out, which solves the above problem but doesn't give you free intel on your enemy's supers or let you know when their whole t3 fleet is logging in. Even that idea is easily manipulated though. If you DC you would lose all your intel. Enemies could purposefully log out and back in to remove themselves from watchlists. Still, it's better than completely removing the watch list because it actually addresses both sides of the issue. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Louis Catcher Haywire. 12	Posted - 2015.04.04 14:22:24 - [126] - Quote How about we just start to question everything in eve that works? What do you guys think about wormholes having different colours? Maybe sleepers shouldn't be named sleepers cause they are awake? Why not just get rid of wormholes all together? This op is seriously just trying to raise an issue without it being an issue, perhaps start participating in real wormhole life before trying to change it.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 207	Posted - 2015.04.04 15:03:15 - [127] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? The watchlist is IMO one of the invaluable match-making tools in game, it shows me when a prey, hunter or buddy, FC is online and maybe creates an opportunity to play. Also immediate local in lowsec and nullsec is such a tool, why I oppose all ideas to change it. The game needs this meta to keep New Eden vital, not all of us are full time cloaky ninjas Didn't read all the replies, just my 2 cents. I'm my own NPC alt.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 948	Posted - 2015.04.04 16:14:04 - [128] - Quote I really don't think that Its been like that forever is a valid reason. Instead, I question a me hanic without a counter. example: lowsec supers without HICs existing would be a bad idea. Like supers do things and you can't hold them. In a sense, watchlists are the same. Someone can wreck your playstyle simply by logging off when you log in, and continue farming once you logged out. If you think info should be that easily given to you, then I propose wormhole local to just make it right. Requiring visuals, wits and good scouting/scanning should be what tells you if a person is active or not. Monitoring their online status is **** easy, immersion breaking and overall an outdated mechanic. If you want to watchlist friends, please do and await their confirmation. Unlikely your prey will agree, but luckily right now they won't even be asked. I can't complain since I feel to sit on the side with benefits from the status quo, but facepalm over the underlying stupidity of that mechanic. Say no to free intel Say no to mechanics that can't be countered or evaded Say no to wormholes with a curate automated intel Say no to the easy mode
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 41	Posted - 2015.04.04 17:57:01 - [129] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: Someone can wreck your playstyle simply by logging off when you log in, and continue farming once you logged out. What is neutral tackle? Lloyd Roses wrote: If you think info should be that easily given to you, then I propose wormhole local to just make it right. So a tool that shows you when someone is online is the same as a tool that shows you in which wormhole someone is located? Lloyd Roses wrote: Requiring visuals, wits and good scouting/scanning should be what tells you if a person is active or not. Monitoring their online status is ** easy, immersion breaking and overall an outdated mechanic. Watching poses/wh's is fun right? Lloyd Roses wrote: Say no to free intel Say no to mechanics that can't be countered or evaded Say no to wormholes with a curate automated intel Say no to the easy mode Say no to free locator check if someone is in k-space? ~lvl 60 paladin~**
umnikar Fishbone Industries 63	Posted - 2015.04.04 20:49:30 - [130] - Quote Should also keep in mind what changed since we have new the notification system with the audible bell. At current state it's pretty easy to track targets down. I suspect that the fairly increased death of supers has alot to do with this. And then listen to the latest wormhole podcast about log offs
Krops Vont Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 55	Posted - 2015.04.04 21:10:38 - [131] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: keep it and it's cool? get rid of it and it's cooler for supers? Remove it and the gazelle running around in w-space will feel either very safe or never leave the pos As with any human, we must map out everything for the sake of living. So what happens when you put the same aspect in a game with random events? They go nuts trying to figure out how to predict and map out everything.
Delegate Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2015.04.04 21:47:15 - [132] - Quote Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: So a tool that shows you when someone is online is the same as a tool that shows you in which wormhole someone is located? Speaking of w-space, a lot of times it's in fact the same tool. Because one main use for non-mutually agreed watchlists is watching players that camp your wormhole or watching corp that you camp. In these situations being online is hugely correlated with being in a specific system. And that both sides can mutually watchlist each other is even worse GÇô at that point we have a substitute for local. There is no balance in this mechanics, as the game give you no sound option to deny that intel.
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 42	Posted - 2015.04.04 22:57:28 - [133] - Quote Delegate wrote: Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: So a tool that shows you when someone is online is the same as a tool that shows you in which wormhole someone is located? Speaking of w-space, a lot of times it's in fact the same tool. Because one main use for non-mutually agreed watchlists is watching players that camp your wormhole or watching corp that you camp. In these situations being online is hugely correlated with being in a specific system. And that both sides can mutually watchlist each other is even worse GÇô at that point we have a substitute for local. There is no balance in this mechanics, as the game give you no sound option to deny that intel. Or you can use the watchlist as a tool to bait? You know giving your target a false sense of safety? Or use it as a scare tactic? There are so many ways to work around watchlists, and the fact that I have to type this so some people understand is just sad and shows how simple eve has become. From older players adapting and using game mechanics which are at their disposal, to new and inexperienced players wanting changes to make an easy game even easier. *~lvl 60 paladin~*
umnikar Fishbone Industries 64	Posted - 2015.04.04 23:34:30 - [134] - Quote Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: From older players adapting and using game mechanics which are at their disposal, to new and inexperienced players wanting changes to make an easy game even easier. You can't call it a game mechanic at all and it does not reflect how well adapted(good) you are. Its a workaround newbies not knowing about and more important dont care about, because they are busy learning the real game mechanics and trying to play it actually - which is often prevented by similar "tricks".
Sleepaz Den Artificial Memories Vertical. 0	Posted - 2015.04.04 23:43:50 - [135] - Quote Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: There are so many ways to work around watchlists, and the fact that I have to type this so some people understand is just sad and shows how simple eve has become. Go on, tell us your work around. I'm very interested in you being both online without that little green lamp shining. Your examples there were a fart in the wind, come on allmighty sensei, show us what you actually got.
Sleepaz Den Artificial Memories Vertical. 0	Posted - 2015.04.04 23:47:52 - [136] - Quote Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: There are so many ways to work around watchlists, and the fact that I have to type this so some people understand is just sad and shows how simple eve has become. Go on, tell us your work around. All there is are big words and a lot of nothing.
Delegate Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2015.04.05 00:28:16 - [137] - Quote Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: There are so many ways to work around watchlists, and the fact that I have to type this so some people understand is just sad and shows how simple eve has become. There is no way to deny watchlists except for afk camping. Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: From older players adapting and using game mechanics which are at their disposal, to new and inexperienced players wanting changes to make an easy game even easier. Most of what I saw in this thread goes along these lines: - we need watchlists, because how would we know if they cloaked or logged off, - we need watchlists, because observing pos is tiresome, - we watchlisted a whole corp once we hauled some stuff, - there was a cloaked legion around but I had that pilot on a watchlist. Now tell me, who's looking for an easy game? I need d-scan, overview and patience. You need watchlist.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1110	Posted - 2015.04.05 03:19:16 - [138] - Quote Sleepaz Den wrote: Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: There are so many ways to work around watchlists, and the fact that I have to type this so some people understand is just sad and shows how simple eve has become. Go on, tell us your work around. All there is are big words and a lot of nothing. pls no desperate If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
SwagYolo420 Lazerhawks 68	Posted - 2015.04.05 06:10:38 - [139] - Quote Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion Likes received: 1,111 checked
Mephiztopheleze Republic University Minmatar Republic 56	Posted - 2015.04.07 02:17:11 - [140] - Quote Kynric wrote: If it could be changed to require the consent of the watched it would retain its function for letting friends keep up with you while disabling its use as an intel tool. this. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 632	Posted - 2015.04.07 07:33:37 - [141] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: Sure, it's prone to abuse. Blood Union would invest billions of ISK in dreads, dread alts, etc, and seed hem into C5's inhabited by bears and pull logon traps partly informed by watchlists. But, and I'll educate you about what really happened because you weren't even playing the game when it happened, BU quit wormholes mostly when CCP removed API kill logging support and jump logging from wormhole systems, thereby invalidating BU's intel tool known as Siggy. BU didn't even need to WL their victims to pull logon traps. a WL pinging with sign-ons is handy but it wouldn't have stopped them without the removal of NPC kill logging and jump logging which just showed a nice red or yellow flag on the holes in Siggy. Uhm, ever heard of QEX? They re-learned how to do it even without the API feed. W-Space Realtor
YuuKnow Inner 5phere 936	Posted - 2015.04.07 11:14:25 - [142] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? I think its too powerful a meta and Eve would be more challenging and spontaneous (ie interesting) if if it didn't exist. I can think of two ways to upgrade it: Possible Upgrade #1: Make it a mutual decision that both players agree on. - player adds a contact to their contact list and sends the standard 'you have been added to my contact list' notice - receiving player receives the notice and clicks a box "allow online notification" that way only if the two players are friends will the 'player online' notification be available. Non-consenting players can't be watchlisted. Possible Upgrade #2: watchlisting players happens automatically when each has set the other individual player to blue. - a player gets a notice when any of his 'blue' bros comes on that also have him blue - doesn't apply to automatic blues such as corps/alliance blues as it would cause too many contacts I think the first upgrade is better. yk
Zechariah Bragg Jaded. The Natural Order 63	Posted - 2015.04.07 19:38:47 - [143] - Quote I've always found watch list to be kinda creepy. In the non-intel gathering sorta way.
Montgomery Black Awakened Ones 80	Posted - 2015.04.08 00:47:26 - [144] - Quote Obil Que wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Getting rid of the watch list allows the risk averse players to be more risk aversetical. Getting rid of it is bad. It removes a mechanism that enhances the ability to blow up another dudes space stuff. What is more risk averse then gathering intel on people without being outside their POS shield? Serendipity Lost wrote: I use the watch list to blow folks up. Folks that don't like fighting on my terms want to take my tools away. I'm ok w/ folks using the watch list the same way I do to exploit me and blow me up. That's part of the game. The drive to remove watch list functionality boils down directly to risk aversion. This whole attempt to get rid of the watch list is an attempt to make eve more risk averse. It's that simple. Any advantages w/ gimping or removing the current watch list stem soley from the desire of risk averse folks to be free of those who hunt them. I want people who gather intel to have to endure risk to do it. Be in space. Be at my POS. Don't gather intel on me from across New Eden with zero risk to yourself to know my patterns and activities. I see nothing but risk averse people wanting to have their perfect intel on my activities handed to them on a silver platter. I want those people to have to be in space directly and actively gathering intel at risk to themselves for doing it. Yes, I want to take your tool away. Your zero effort, zero risk tool to hunt with. Spoken like someone who has no idea the time it actually takes to actually hunt a target in wormhole space. In WHs there is no local and people are often in cloaked ships. Watchlists prevent hunters from spending hours watching a empty wormhole. They tell you if your target is online so you have a possibility of continuing the hunt. or if he is offline so you dont spend hours of wasted time while your target is logged off doing stuff in that horrible sunshine. watchlists enable pew in wh space and prevent hours of boredom. They don't hand you targets on a platter.
vccv 36	Posted - 2015.04.08 05:58:03 - [145] - Quote I think it should cost a certain amount per day or maybe month to place someone on a watch list. You'd really have to need it if it costs you enough. Protects those who wish they weren't on one by a little and doesn't change much other than slowing down the flow of free Intel a bit. Intel shouldn't be so easy to acquire in my opinion. Not that most folks would have a huge problem paying it.
Glathull Warlock Assassins 1005	Posted - 2015.04.08 07:41:57 - [146] - Quote Man, I get so sick of people standing up on pedestals and beating drums of ideological purity. You are like the special interest groups here in the U.S. who are always pointing at the racism of this policy or the sexism of that one or how this one idea is socialist(!!!)--all the while ignoring the other aspects of a situation that are the conceptually the same but benefit you. Abusing these appeals to conceptual authority is damaging to the very ideas you claim to be espousing. "No Free Intel!" sounds kind of great as a game design principle. But if what it actually means is no free intel except for the free intel that you find beneficial, then it's a crap design principle. If you're going to keep beating on that drum, you need to actually mean it. Otherwise the hypocrisy is painfully obvious, and you just look stupid. But you shouldn't mean it because it's ridiculous. We will never eliminate all sources of free intel in this game, and you would riot if anyone seriously tried to. Get off your soap-boxes and address the actual issue at hand. Try to make a real argument that amounts to something other than, "Whaaaaaaaa! The bad man made my ship go away, and then I poopied in my panties a little. Waaaaaaa!" You can dress that up however you want. But pretending that No Free Intel means anything other than that when you say it is just silly. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 918	Posted - 2015.04.08 14:22:03 - [147] - Quote You should not be able to see whether pilots are online or not unless they give you consent. Just my 2 cents. Not today spaghetti.
Dersen Lowery Drinking in Station 1518	Posted - 2015.04.08 17:37:46 - [148] - Quote If this question is being asked in the context of a general examination of in-game intel (Local, D-scan, probe scanning, locator agents, etc.) then +1 to requiring the consent of the watched. If there's a need, you can deal with edge cases as they come up, e.g.: making the emergency warp on disconnect easily distinguishable from a standard warp. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. I voted in CSM X!
Ocid Unknown Crusade 1	Posted - 2015.04.08 18:33:36 - [149] - Quote While we're at it remove killboards as well. **** why not just remove the API so we can't gather any info. /sarcasm Watch lists are fine. People can add me and I don't know they're watching me. I can add people and they don't know I'm watching them.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1118	Posted - 2015.04.08 19:10:58 - [150] - Quote I don't need to ask for consent the way you're dressed implied it If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 920	Posted - 2015.04.08 19:32:18 - [151] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: I don't need to ask for consent the way you're dressed implied it MY FACE IS UP HERE! Not today spaghetti.
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 26596	Posted - 2015.04.08 19:38:28 - [152] - Quote Sexy Cakes wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: I don't need to ask for consent the way you're dressed implied it MY FACE IS UP HERE! Exactly. And your face is naked. Consider yourself ..... WATCHLISTED. =ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ... Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1118	Posted - 2015.04.08 20:09:18 - [153] - Quote l-l-lewd OuO If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 26597	Posted - 2015.04.08 21:17:18 - [154] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: l-l-lewd OuO I'm just gonna start watchlisting everyone who posts here saying watchlists are bad. =ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ... Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1119	Posted - 2015.04.08 21:56:35 - [155] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: l-l-lewd OuO I'm just gonna start watchlisting everyone who posts here saying watchlists are bad. make sure the message is "added to watchlist now I'm always watching" If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Noxisia Arkana Deadspace Knights 423	Posted - 2015.04.08 22:14:09 - [156] - Quote Going back to the original point of this, I think watch lists are fine. It's one of the few things 'prey' can do in fight whether it's against HS war decs, timers, general 1 man asshattary, or in wh space. It doesn't feel broken, if you have trouble finding fights in a wormhole, maybe you shouldn't announce your presence by leaving mobile depots up. Also, camping wormholes, in great numbers for kills is only really awesome if you're planning to evict or grab someone's ratting carrier. Other than that, why bother? You're better of spreading out the love, getting a huge chain, and when someone finds something - giving people the route.
YuuKnow Lascivious. 936	Posted - 2015.04.09 12:45:30 - [157] - Quote Eve is full of instant-intel unfortunately. Originally it was designed to foster community and make it easier to find and meet up with friends when the game was new, sparsely inhabited, and you could go dozens of systems without ever seeing anyone in local. Now that Eve is steadily populated, these metas are really unnecessary and just make it easier for people to avoid fighting. I'm in favor of any upgrades that eliminate insta-intel such as non-mutual watchlist. yk
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1132	Posted - 2015.04.09 14:05:11 - [158] - Quote Noxisia Arkana wrote: Going back to the original point of this I'm sorry but I can't let this happen If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Jazmin Dusette Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin 119	Posted - 2015.04.09 15:27:56 - [159] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: Noxisia Arkana wrote: Going back to the original point of this I'm sorry but I can't let this happen You are the hero we need. Don't really deserve, but still need.
Ortus Maleficus Ministry of War Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2015.04.09 16:24:21 - [160] - Quote I've never liked it. It seems like intel one should not get for free.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1135	Posted - 2015.04.09 16:37:47 - [161] - Quote hello everyone pls WL me so that when I log in you can all see, admire, and be jealous of my danque angle jacket If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
HTC NecoSino No Vacancies Lost Alliance 197	Posted - 2015.04.09 16:42:00 - [162] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: hello everyone pls WL me so that when I log in you can all see, admire, and be jealous of my danque angle jacket Nice jacket.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1136	Posted - 2015.04.09 16:47:17 - [163] - Quote thanks~ when you WL me pls make sure to send notice and set me to +10! If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Daerrol Furtherance. 92	Posted - 2015.04.09 20:13:57 - [164] - Quote .. If you are concerned about WL log your character in before work and log out before bed. Or hell let DT log you out and just log in every morning, parked in a station.
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.09 20:32:31 - [165] - Quote Daerrol wrote: .. If you are concerned about WL log your character in before work and log out before bed. Or hell let DT log you out and just log in every morning, parked in a station. The only counter to an in-game mechanic is to idle out of game... What ABSOLUTE TOSH.. That reason alone should be enough to have the non-mutual WL removed from the game
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1259	Posted - 2015.04.09 23:28:16 - [166] - Quote I have to admit this is a interesting debate Besides some of the obvious trolling, I think just about everybody believes it is both free and easy intel. Whether it should be changed or iterated on is the big debate. Most fear change because.. well we don't know what that change would be. Some feel it fine because while it doesn't tell you where the person is, it does tell you when they log in. Its purpose has changed since being developed. Its probably as old as the pos code. If it was a means of keeping track of friendships, fine, but it is mostly used to keep track of people to know when to kill them. I don't mind the intel, I just don't believe it should be free unless mutually agreed upon between the two parties (or two people). I would not remove the capability of stalking a person, I just would not make it free. You want to track logins and logoffs without someone knowing, it'll cost you. If its friendly, notice is to be sent to you, and if you agree, its free. It doesn't have to cost a fortune (I'm thinking a few hundred thousand to maybe a million isk), but it should have a maintenance fee (bribery to concord for shutting down the com's network for you and that person). You have a tracking list of 1000 people, it's going to start costing you ALOT to track all of them without a wardec. Tracking wardec targets should be free. Something along those lines would work out. Yaay!!!!
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2238	Posted - 2015.04.09 23:49:17 - [167] - Quote YuuKnow wrote: Eve is full of instant-intel unfortunately. Originally it was designed to foster community and make it easier to find and meet up with friends when the game was new, sparsely inhabited, and you could go dozens of systems without ever seeing anyone in local. Now that Eve is steadily populated, these metas are really unnecessary and just make it easier for people to avoid fighting. I'm in favor of any upgrades that eliminate insta-intel such as non-mutual watchlist. yk Spotted: someone who hasn't visited nullsec recently. Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014. Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
YuuKnow Lascivious. 936	Posted - 2015.04.10 04:56:58 - [168] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: YuuKnow wrote: Eve is full of instant-intel unfortunately. Originally it was designed to foster community and make it easier to find and meet up with friends when the game was new, sparsely inhabited, and you could go dozens of systems without ever seeing anyone in local. Now that Eve is steadily populated, these metas are really unnecessary and just make it easier for people to avoid fighting. I'm in favor of any upgrades that eliminate insta-intel such as non-mutual watchlist. yk Spotted: someone who hasn't visited nullsec recently. Its all relative.
Mr RiXter Imperial Collective Unsettled. 16	Posted - 2015.04.10 09:15:11 - [169] - Quote Remove it. The most broken feature eve has atm. Like most people I was shocked when I found out you can get such free intel in this so called tough and hardcore game.
Idame Isqua Vipres' Templis CALSF 0	Posted - 2015.04.10 10:06:01 - [170] - Quote It needs a big overhaul. Anyone know where drafts go? I wrote more but it seems to have disappeared.
Richard Bong Hole Violence Whole Squid 61	Posted - 2015.04.10 14:03:41 - [171] - Quote I would prefer it was balanced against something, whether it be isk, time delay, or whatever. RIght now it's just instant free intel that cannot be countered. [ASK] Me about drive by thread shitting!
Nelly Uanos Spirit Unlimited La Division Bleue 26	Posted - 2015.04.10 20:22:21 - [172] - Quote The only point I have against removing it is the following... I'm cloaked at your tower watching you, you log off... without WL I don't know if you logged out or warped away and cloaked. I was ACTIVELY trying to get intel on you and now I'm in the dark... That's stupid. If you give me a way to differentiate someone logging out from someone warping away and cloaking then fine, you can remove non-concensual WL.
Luft Reich Lazerhawks 72	Posted - 2015.04.10 22:12:51 - [173] - Quote No, gotta keep it so people can see when I log in.... On the real though, it should NOT be removed. "Oh no free intel gathering" well after W-Space NPC API was removed seeding people and monitering groups to plan a gank became more challenging as you have to observe them for longer periods of time. Removing watchlists is the final nail in the coffin krabs want to make them safe. ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
Krops Vont Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 57	Posted - 2015.04.10 22:18:34 - [174] - Quote Luft Reich wrote: No, gotta keep it so people can see when I log in.... On the real though, it should NOT be removed. "Oh no free intel gathering" well after W-Space NPC API was removed seeding people and monitering groups to plan a gank became more challenging as you have to observe them for longer periods of time. Removing watchlists is the final nail in the coffin krabs want to make them safe. Remove it. I can finally solo them in my d-scan immune fleet. As with any human, we must map out everything for the sake of living. So what happens when you put the same aspect in a game with random events? They go nuts trying to figure out how to predict and map out everything.
Zoe Athame Wolf Riot 242	Posted - 2015.04.11 16:03:55 - [175] - Quote Nelly Uanos wrote: The only point I have against removing it is the following... I'm cloaked at your tower watching you, you log off... without WL I don't know if you logged out or warped away and cloaked. I was ACTIVELY trying to get intel on you and now I'm in the dark... That's stupid. If you give me a way to differentiate someone logging out from someone warping away and cloaking then fine, you can remove non-concensual WL. This is a good point. If actual intel gathering was changed for the better, I would be fine with seeing watchlists go. A lot of the people in this thread who are freaking out about never getting a gank ever again seem to be missing the fact that if you remove watchlists, you can add something else that has a similar effect even if it requires slightly more work (being on grid for example.)
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2240	Posted - 2015.04.12 03:02:03 - [176] - Quote So, here's the thing about watchlists. If you are, eg, an alt of someone, let's just assume Chance Ravinne (or maybe someone else, I can't really tell) and you see TF jump his panther in from hisec, what do you do? a) add the doosh to watchlist b) stay cloaked and silent and stalk him properly c) convo said Panther pilot and act like a munted child Well, I guess the toon Friendly Delivery, whoever owns it, didn't add me to watchlist. He chose option C, convoing me to let me know he was lurking in the hole with me. Because that's how you stealth. So now you can see why Chance hates watchlists. They suck when you convo everyone who jumps into a wormhole in which you lurk. But the WL isn't the problem. Being a twit is your problem. Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014. Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1140	Posted - 2015.04.12 03:55:22 - [177] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: So, here's the thing about watchlists. If you are, eg, an alt of someone, let's just assume Chance Ravinne (or maybe someone else, I can't really tell) and you see TF jump his panther in from hisec, what do you do? a) add the doosh to watchlist b) stay cloaked and silent and stalk him properly c) convo said Panther pilot and act like a munted child Well, I guess the toon Friendly Delivery, whoever owns it, didn't add me to watchlist. He chose option C, convoing me to let me know he was lurking in the hole with me. Because that's how you stealth. So now you can see why Chance hates watchlists. They suck when you convo everyone who jumps into a wormhole in which you lurk. But the WL isn't the problem. Being a twit is your problem. I get the feeling you don't like this vaunted csm member. I could be wrong tho If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 27003	Posted - 2015.04.12 08:58:40 - [178] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: I get the feeling you don't like this vaunted csm member. I could be wrong tho I was already miffed that I couldn't vote Trinket for CSM. Ever since all this I'm even more upset I couldn't vote for him. I find his aggression to be focused and righteous, and while I don't know his stance on wormhole fashion in YC 117, I do believe he ticks all the other boxes for someone I intended voting for. =ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ... Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1143	Posted - 2015.04.12 13:41:14 - [179] - Quote too bad his shady past disqualified him from running ;v; If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Credacom Aperture Harmonics K162 28	Posted - 2015.04.12 13:47:46 - [180] - Quote Watch lists don't provide good fights, just ganks and avoiding fights. Esp capital pilot Intel is OP. Get rid of them and watch the fights abound with escalation and fumbles. Randomness and risk is what' helps make eve great.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1143	Posted - 2015.04.12 18:06:10 - [181] - Quote Credacom wrote: Get rid of them and watch the fights abound with escalation and fumbles. let me tell you what won't happen If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Luft Reich Lazerhawks 72	Posted - 2015.04.12 18:56:29 - [182] - Quote Krops Vont wrote: Luft Reich wrote: No, gotta keep it so people can see when I log in.... On the real though, it should NOT be removed. "Oh no free intel gathering" well after W-Space NPC API was removed seeding people and monitering groups to plan a gank became more challenging as you have to observe them for longer periods of time. Removing watchlists is the final nail in the coffin krabs want to make them safe. Remove it. I can finally solo them in my d-scan immune fleet. ^^^^^ I totally forgot, yes remove WL. ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
Ozz Burtus Anomalous Existence Low-Class 0	Posted - 2015.04.12 22:30:35 - [183] - Quote IMO the watchlist is bread and / or butter for WH space PvP, for these reasons amongst others: On a quiet night it tells you (roughly) where in the 20+ systems in your chain you might find something to shoot. (WL the most active of the corps down the chain and go knocking when the lights come on somewhere). On a busy night it can give you an idea if your 2 party fight might soon turn into a full on orgy. And where the extra people are likely to come from. In fleet ops or POS bashing it can be used as Intel on the prey logged in as well as effective disinformation. As a cloaky scout, it's a really powerful tool. Balanced? Not in WH space, I came though your system 2hrs ago and WL'd your corp; sat in my tower 5 connections back, I can see that you have logged in, chances are it will be into your home system and that you'll be doing your PI real soon. Remove the WL? Please Bob no, it will make finding content that much harder and WH space is already too quiet. Ozz
Iyokus Patrouette Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 405	Posted - 2015.04.12 23:47:53 - [184] - Quote We must also remove Killmails and loss mails. They get free intel on what i fly and how many people i usually roam with, all that Free intel... everyone should pay isk to see all kill/loss mails. Corporation information shouldn't be viewable either... you can see how many people are in the corp.. More free intel. IT'S SO UNFAIR GUYS. Overview should be removed.. free intel on anything on grid. also, all ships should look the same, so cloaky people can't look at my ship and see what guns i have... free intel after all. actually the only way to really make everything fair is for us all to play with a black screen. problem solved. ---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
Pissfat Reverse Production 79	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:44:17 - [185] - Quote Iyokus Patrouette wrote: We must also remove Killmails and loss mails. They get free intel on what i fly and how many people i usually roam with, all that Free intel... everyone should pay isk to see all kill/loss mails. Corporation information shouldn't be viewable either... you can see how many people are in the corp.. More free intel. IT'S SO UNFAIR GUYS. Overview should be removed.. free intel on anything on grid. also, all ships should look the same, so cloaky people can't look at my ship and see what guns i have... free intel after all. actually the only way to really make everything fair is for us all to play with a black screen. problem solved. This guy gets it. I would add though you shouldn't be able to click on a character at all. Look at all that free intel on a person and his history, add to that you shouldn't even have an option to find his toon in this overpowered local chat that exists everywhere. You should only have on grid intel right? I am Winthorp, you may remember me from such films as....
Jezza McWaffle No Vacancies Lost Alliance 193	Posted - 2015.04.13 10:18:35 - [186] - Quote Nah on grid Intel is too powerful, you should have to die to them first before you can even see there ship... C6 Wormhole blog http://holelotofwaffle.wordpress.com/
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.13 15:19:41 - [187] - Quote [quote=Zoe Athame][quote=Nelly Uanos]The only point I have against removing it is the following... I'm cloaked at your tower watching you, you log off... without WL I don't know if you logged out or warped away and cloaked. I was ACTIVELY trying to get intel on you and now I'm in the dark... That's stupid. If you give me a way to differentiate someone logging out from someone warping away and cloaking then fine, you can remove non-concensual WL. quote] Differentiation: If you're cloaked at a tower watching a ship and see it disappear that means they logged off. If you're cloaked at a tower watching a ship and it moves then zooms off into the distance they warped off. or did you mean: If you're cloaked at a tower watching a ship and alt tab to another toon to run pi / play the market / grab a beer. When you get back the ship has gone, did it warp off or did it log off ... Well that means you were not really watching but its OK just check the free intel on your watchlist.
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.13 15:29:16 - [188] - Quote Pissfat wrote: Iyokus Patrouette wrote: We must also remove Killmails and loss mails. They get free intel on what i fly and how many people i usually roam with, all that Free intel... everyone should pay isk to see all kill/loss mails. Corporation information shouldn't be viewable either... you can see how many people are in the corp.. More free intel. IT'S SO UNFAIR GUYS. Overview should be removed.. free intel on anything on grid. also, all ships should look the same, so cloaky people can't look at my ship and see what guns i have... free intel after all. actually the only way to really make everything fair is for us all to play with a black screen. problem solved. This guy gets it. I would add though you shouldn't be able to click on a character at all. Look at all that free intel on a person and his history, add to that you shouldn't even have an option to find his toon in this overpowered local chat that exists everywhere. You should only have on grid intel right? Reductio ad absurdum - As non of the items above are in fact a "watchlist" then this does nothing to further the discussion
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1145	Posted - 2015.04.13 16:38:40 - [189] - Quote why does this thread bring all the no name randos out If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Domania Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 64	Posted - 2015.04.13 16:55:34 - [190] - Quote It's a OP mechanic. You should only be able to see if someone is online if they have you added with positive standings too. You know, like what friends do, not possible targets. Seriously you shouldn't be able to see hostiles online whenever.
Iyokus Patrouette Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 410	Posted - 2015.04.13 22:12:20 - [191] - Quote Iowa Banshee wrote: Pissfat wrote: Iyokus Patrouette wrote: We must also remove Killmails and loss mails. They get free intel on what i fly and how many people i usually roam with, all that Free intel... everyone should pay isk to see all kill/loss mails. Corporation information shouldn't be viewable either... you can see how many people are in the corp.. More free intel. IT'S SO UNFAIR GUYS. Overview should be removed.. free intel on anything on grid. also, all ships should look the same, so cloaky people can't look at my ship and see what guns i have... free intel after all. actually the only way to really make everything fair is for us all to play with a black screen. problem solved. This guy gets it. I would add though you shouldn't be able to click on a character at all. Look at all that free intel on a person and his history, add to that you shouldn't even have an option to find his toon in this overpowered local chat that exists everywhere. You should only have on grid intel right? Reductio ad absurdum - As none of the items above are in fact a "watchlist" then this does nothing to further the discussion Granted i skimmed over most of the QQing in the previous 8 or so pages, But i don't think this thread has had a discussion going for a good while now. or we've started a new discussion, I believe it was Trinkets for CSM. That seemed to be the most discussed thing so far. ---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
Streya Jormagdnir Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 351	Posted - 2015.04.15 10:08:30 - [192] - Quote Watchlisting is fine as is. Now please give us more labels! I'm starting to reach the max limit, and I like using labels to quickly add and clear targets as holes roll. I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way. Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever
blue coeur Anomalous Existence Low-Class 15	Posted - 2015.04.15 20:04:18 - [193] - Quote WL is fine.
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1277	Posted - 2015.04.16 23:58:56 - [194] - Quote Domania wrote: It's a OP mechanic. You should only be able to see if someone is online if they have you added with positive standings too. You know, like what friends do, not possible targets. Seriously you shouldn't be able to see hostiles online whenever. Nice troll, but partially true too. I'd put a price on it if you want to watchlist people anonymously. As it's more of a stalking tactic, similar to how locator agents work. They aren't free. Why should this be? Yaay!!!!
Tylus Lemmont Disciples of Aphrodite 1	Posted - 2015.04.18 19:29:44 - [195] - Quote Could always require mutual good standing or mutual bad standing to watchlist someone.
Araikas Rhal Hair-Trigger Prolapse. 4	Posted - 2015.04.19 11:01:44 - [196] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Chance Ravinne wrote: I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? How do you feel about local. If there we ever overpowered free intel... local chat would be it. Since you're a CSM and since you brought it up could you do us a favor and give your views as to the differences as you see them between the watchlist and local. Local - intant free intel you only have to be logged in for. Used costantly to avoid conflict. Allows risk free game play in all but WH. Watchlist - instant, but at least you have to do some up front work and add the dude for it to work (so not exactly 100% free). It's primarily used as an aid in creating conflict - not in avoiding it. Well, the Intel of local is mutual. Everyone in local can see everyone else in local. I can by counter watch list everyone in a corp that's my target, and use that info unbeknownst to them to figure out when to run locator agents. Or for instance a corp I am camping can watch list me and know when not to run sites, or when to. Kind of detracts from the mystery of it for me. Yes, watchlists are indeed overpowered, far more so then local because both pilots can use it...... wait.... nvm. Local is too OP, someone might not see it after all, making it unfair, i would also like to see a local chat that cant be minimized, and reaches two systems out. Gee, on that line of though, i think aggression style PvP is overpowered as well! We should only be able to violence each others ships if both people have added each other as blue's to friends list and agree on a place and time. Also, they must have equal skill points. Then all of Eve can be fair finally! Chance my man, you are a genius! This fair and balanced Eve is exactly where i want to play. Also, it would be cool if we could add a place called Crossroads and i could be a Paladin?
Chance Ravinne WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 191	Posted - 2015.04.20 03:48:48 - [197] - Quote Araikas Rhal wrote: Chance Ravinne wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Chance Ravinne wrote: I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? How do you feel about local. If there we ever overpowered free intel... local chat would be it. Since you're a CSM and since you brought it up could you do us a favor and give your views as to the differences as you see them between the watchlist and local. Local - intant free intel you only have to be logged in for. Used costantly to avoid conflict. Allows risk free game play in all but WH. Watchlist - instant, but at least you have to do some up front work and add the dude for it to work (so not exactly 100% free). It's primarily used as an aid in creating conflict - not in avoiding it. Well, the Intel of local is mutual. Everyone in local can see everyone else in local. I can by counter watch list everyone in a corp that's my target, and use that info unbeknownst to them to figure out when to run locator agents. Or for instance a corp I am camping can watch list me and know when not to run sites, or when to. Kind of detracts from the mystery of it for me. Yes, watchlists are indeed overpowered, far more so then local because both pilots can use it...... wait.... nvm. Local is too OP, someone might not see it after all, making it unfair, i would also like to see a local chat that cant be minimized, and reaches two systems out. Gee, on that line of though, i think aggression style PvP is overpowered as well! We should only be able to violence each others ships if both people have added each other as blue's to friends list and agree on a place and time. Also, they must have equal skill points. Then all of Eve can be fair finally! Chance my man, you are a genius! This fair and balanced Eve is exactly where i want to play. Also, it would be cool if we could add a place called Crossroads and i could be a Paladin? Local is actually instantaneously mutual. If your cloaky spots someone entering a WH and you watchlist them, it's not actually mutual. Just saying! You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Apex Bex Boundless Exploration 25	Posted - 2015.04.20 04:44:29 - [198] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: Local is actually instantaneously mutual. If your cloaky spots someone entering a WH and you watchlist them, it's not actually mutual. Just saying! Only if you use it, somehow you completely missed the point of his post.
Iyokus Patrouette Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 419	Posted - 2015.04.20 04:53:59 - [199] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: Local is actually instantaneously mutual. If your cloaky spots someone entering a WH and you watchlist them, it's not actually mutual. Just saying! Not in Thera it isn't. ---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
Angus MacDoom Anomalous Existence Low-Class 22	Posted - 2015.04.20 05:07:33 - [200] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: Local is actually instantaneously mutual. If your cloaky spots someone entering a WH and you watchlist them, it's not actually mutual. Just saying! And why should it be mutual in wormholes? Wormholes are not supposed to be easy, it's the "unknown", and has always meant to be a vicious environment to enter into, and we the people like it that way. Watchlists are fine, leave them alone.
Mimiko Severovski Zero Fun Allowed 12	Posted - 2015.04.20 05:21:25 - [201] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: Local is actually instantaneously mutual. If your cloaky spots someone entering a WH and you watchlist them, it's not actually mutual. Just saying! Then maybe your cloaky should have been there sooner, to spot the cloaky who is spotting the cloaky that came to cloaky afk camp the cloaky's friends/corporation/t1 hauler. Removing watchlists doesn't help anyone except a select few people that wait a few days to kill a hauler, and blame it onto the game mechanics. If you are looking for broken things, maybe take a look at bombers for example.(sorry for the derail)
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 42094	Posted - 2015.04.20 11:17:05 - [202] - Quote Mimiko Severovski wrote: (sorry for the derail) No, please, continue. You're doing Bob's work. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Pissfat Reverse Production 88	Posted - 2015.04.20 11:56:24 - [203] - Quote Mimiko Severovski wrote: If you are looking for broken things, maybe take a look at bombers for example. Quoting for truth and posterity.
Gipsy K1ng STORM Squad Northern Associates. 0	Posted - 2015.04.29 12:20:27 - [204] - Quote WL is good as it is ,and yeas this topic serves only Chance agenda ..invisible,untraceable Thanks but no....this is a game and I am not going to waste 2-3 hrs play time to track somebody rush 20-30 jumps to find him, just to realise he logged off 1 hr ago.I would rather go for no local out of HS.
Krops Vont Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 67	Posted - 2015.04.29 14:38:21 - [205] - Quote Gipsy K1ng wrote: WL is good as it is ,and yeas this topic serves only Chance agenda ..invisible,untraceable Thanks but no....this is a game and I am not going to waste 2-3 hrs play time to track somebody rush 20-30 jumps to find him, just to realise he logged off 1 hr ago.I would rather go for no local out of HS. The one thing most game changes or "defining ideas" always neglect. The time & or effort required into an act or the consequences that will follow. Imagine if there were no more stargates and you could finally warp from A to B just takes you know, an hour and a half. To some people, this is all they have time for in a week. Watchlist helps save time and also helps identify if someone DC'd with their crappy router connection. --==Services==-- Propaganda/Art/Media Wormhole Finding & Selling o/ Play for fun
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 974	Posted - 2015.04.29 15:17:20 - [206] - Quote Angus MacDoom wrote: And why should it be mutual in wormholes? Wormholes are not supposed to be easy, it's the "unknown", and has always meant to be a vicious environment to enter into, and we the people like it that way. Watchlists are fine, leave them alone. Jump wormhole, look up zkill for inhabitants, WL potential FCs and obvious scanners. Intel gathering complete. Afterwards press dscan and look around for offline towers with SMAs, bm wormhole. Much unknown.
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 54	Posted - 2015.04.29 15:41:14 - [207] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: Jump wormhole, look up zkill for inhabitants, WL potential FCs and obvious scanners. Intel gathering complete. Afterwards press dscan and look around for offline towers with SMAs, bm wormhole. Much unknown. So killboards are the problem then? Seeing as they give you instant intel on who lives in a wh, how many people they get in fleets, what ships they use, what tz they are ect. Should killmails be removed from wh space now? *~lvl 60 paladin~*
B0T0 X Legion Against Probes 23	Posted - 2015.04.29 18:03:55 - [208] - Quote Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: So killboards are the problem then? Killboard is next big problem. Option to disable exporting kills would be quite nice. 01010111 00101101 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00101100 00100000 01100010 01100101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00100001
FNPD Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.04.29 20:05:33 - [209] - Quote Watchlist should require the person to accept you watching them. In a game that intel is very important and must be worked for, a watchlist makes ZERO sense.
Humang Awakened Ones 94	Posted - 2015.04.29 21:55:46 - [210] - Quote Haven't read the entire thread so take this with a grain of salt. But what about only having the WL update that someone is online/offline if you are in the same system that they are currently in / logged off in. IE. You can't be on the other side of the galaxy to see that someone just logged in and then rush over to their system to gank. However if you are actively in system, you know if they are online or not, regardless if you even saw them at all in the first place. AFK cloaking thread Summary - Provided by Paikis Good Post Etiquette - Provided by CCP Grayscale
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3817	Posted - 2015.04.30 11:43:32 - [211] - Quote I'm not sure I understand the point about removing watchlists. Intel = where a pilot is and what is he flying. Watchlists do not give that intel. To gather it, you still have to get eyes on the pilot (while he's online). After he has logged off, the moment he logs back on he'll naturally be in the same place in the same ship. Makes sense that you get this intel, since you already had it in the first place. After that, you don't get anymore intel unless, again, you get eyes on him. So what's the problem, exactly? Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.30 15:20:02 - [212] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: I'm not sure I understand the point about removing watchlists. Intel = where a pilot is and what is he flying. Watchlists do not give that intel. To gather it, you still have to get eyes on the pilot (while he's online). After he has logged off, the moment he logs back on he'll naturally be in the same place in the same ship. Makes sense that you get this intel, since you already had it in the first place. After that, you don't get anymore intel unless, again, you get eyes on him. So what's the problem, exactly? Well you see...... The watch-list can tell you when the pilot and friends are online. If you cross them off an also online list you can work out his alts - just in case you prefer to attack an indy toon. When you are on an ALT the watch-list can tell you its time to stop doing what you are doing and log into another toon 1/2 way across the universe" - because "eyes on intel" doesn't have to be the same toon eyes and it has serious range. Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven, grinding them down to destruction you can suddenly bug out of a winning fight because the watch-list has told you his friends have just come online and nothing spoils a good PVE gank more than a Lachesis, Cloaky Proteus and a couple of ECM Rooks turning up on grid. Thanks Magical Watch-List Fairy
Chibi Katana Division 13 Anoikis Ronin 644	Posted - 2015.04.30 15:57:22 - [213] - Quote Iowa Banshee wrote: Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven Right after you've added the pilot's entire corp to watchlist because that's what you do before a lone BS gank, right? Just incase his friends login? Fanciful examples tbh. Who bumped this thread anyway. µä¢ c-++¦-¦+¦-+-à
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 979	Posted - 2015.04.30 16:01:03 - [214] - Quote Chibi Katana wrote: Iowa Banshee wrote: Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven Right after you've added the pilot's entire corp to watchlist because that's what you do before a lone BS gank, right? Can't imagine anyone adds a whole corp. Quick look over zkill gives good odds to catch their active pvpers though, that's just 5-10 guys to add. Would be cool though if you could right click a label and add/remove all contacts to/from watchlist.
Chibi Katana Division 13 Anoikis Ronin 644	Posted - 2015.04.30 16:06:10 - [215] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: Chibi Katana wrote: Iowa Banshee wrote: Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven Right after you've added the pilot's entire corp to watchlist because that's what you do before a lone BS gank, right? Can't imagine anyone adds a whole corp. Quick look over zkill gives good odds to catch their active pvpers though, that's just 5-10 guys to add. Still no less fanciful though. Who actually does that? Sure, see a Raven on scan, you locate him, nothing else is on Dscan, while you're setting up your tackle you're having a quick look at his killboard - yep he's a ratter or whatever, dies a lot, got a couple kills. That's all I'd need to know and enough time wasted being "risk averse". I wouldn't bother sitting there examining each kill, seeing each pilot he/she flies with, checking their PVP activity too, copy/paste names and start watchlisting. I'd just tackle the ******* Raven. µä¢ c-++¦-¦+¦-+-à
Kensa Katana Division 13 Anoikis Ronin 829	Posted - 2015.04.30 16:51:50 - [216] - Quote Chibi Katana wrote: I'd just tackle the ******* Raven. I'd help you, but I only have 1m SP. Digital world problems. Have fun dying to the Raven in your Reaper. µä¢ -+en-òar-à
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3820	Posted - 2015.04.30 17:01:15 - [217] - Quote Iowa Banshee wrote: you can suddenly bug out of a winning fight because the watch-list has told you his friends have just come online and nothing spoils a good PVE gank more than a Lachesis, Cloaky Proteus and a couple of ECM Rooks turning up on grid. So basically you're saying that watchlists help you get LESS kills, because your playstyle involves ganking lone pilots only if you're sure that all their known friends are offline. Fascinating! Are you sure the watchlist is the problem? Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:13:54 - [218] - Quote Chibi Katana wrote: Lloyd Roses wrote: Chibi Katana wrote: Iowa Banshee wrote: Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven Right after you've added the pilot's entire corp to watchlist because that's what you do before a lone BS gank, right? Can't imagine anyone adds a whole corp. Quick look over zkill gives good odds to catch their active pvpers though, that's just 5-10 guys to add. Still no less fanciful though. Who actually does that? Sure, see a Raven on scan, you locate him, nothing else is on Dscan, while you're setting up your tackle you're having a quick look at his killboard - yep he's a ratter or whatever, dies a lot, got a couple kills. That's all I'd need to know and enough time wasted being "risk averse". I wouldn't bother sitting there examining each kill, seeing each pilot he/she flies with, checking their PVP activity too, copy/paste names and start watchlisting. I'd just tackle the ******* Raven. - LOL - See a Raven on d-scan ? How the crap would you see them on D-Scan. Your market trader cannot D-Scan inside a Station - You have to wait for the magical watch list fairy to give you the free intel before swapping alts to begin D-Scanning. Does trading PVP count as PVP? The opposite could happpen you could be scanning a system somewhere and the magical watch list fairy could give you more free intel telling you to log into a trader ALT to undercut prices on a seller who just logged off.
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 29347	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:21:34 - [219] - Quote Iowa Banshee wrote: - LOL - See a Raven on d-scan ? How the crap would you see them on D-Scan. Your market trader cannot D-Scan inside a Station - You have to wait for the magical watch list fairy to give you the free intel before swapping alts to begin D-Scanning. Does trading PVP count as PVP? The opposite could happpen you could be scanning a system somewhere and the magical watch list fairy could give you more free intel telling you to log into a trader ALT to undercut prices on a seller who just logged off. Because I'd be in system with it. Trading? Trading's for poors. You sound awfully knowledgeable about the topic though. raises eyebrow Bob Is Always Watching ... Officially Unofficial Chainsaw DiplomatGäó "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:26:06 - [220] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: Iowa Banshee wrote: - LOL - See a Raven on d-scan ? How the crap would you see them on D-Scan. Your market trader cannot D-Scan inside a Station - You have to wait for the magical watch list fairy to give you the free intel before swapping alts to begin D-Scanning. Does trading PVP count as PVP? The opposite could happpen you could be scanning a system somewhere and the magical watch list fairy could give you more free intel telling you to log into a trader ALT to undercut prices on a seller who just logged off. Because I'd be in system with it. Trading? Trading's for poors. You sound awfully knowledgeable about the topic though. raises eyebrow Ah... I see You would be scanning in system gathering info you have to work for and not using the cheat - so - Get rid of it then?
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 29347	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:27:41 - [221] - Quote Iowa Banshee wrote: Ah... I see You would be scanning in system gathering info you have to work for and not using the cheat - so - Get rid of it then? What are you even talking about? How is a watchlist going to tell me there's a Raven ratting in an anom near planet IV? Bob Is Always Watching ... Officially Unofficial Chainsaw DiplomatGäó "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:31:02 - [222] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: Iowa Banshee wrote: Ah... I see You would be scanning in system gathering info you have to work for and not using the cheat - so - Get rid of it then? What are you even talking about? How is a watchlist going to tell me there's a Raven ratting in an anom near planet IV? It's not - so - Get rid of it then?
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 29348	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:33:26 - [223] - Quote Iowa Banshee wrote: Candi LeMew wrote: Iowa Banshee wrote: Ah... I see You would be scanning in system gathering info you have to work for and not using the cheat - so - Get rid of it then? What are you even talking about? How is a watchlist going to tell me there's a Raven ratting in an anom near planet IV? It's not - so - Get rid of it then? No, there's nothing wrong with the watchlist. And this thread should be allowed to die. Bob Is Always Watching ... Officially Unofficial Chainsaw DiplomatGäó "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 8	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:41:10 - [224] - Quote Yes, there's lots wrong with the watchlist. And this thread should be allowed to die.
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 2084	Posted - 2015.05.14 01:35:13 - [225] - Quote Fozzie talked about this on the EN24 podcast: - Watchlists have been on the change list for a while. - Not very happy with the use of watchlist to see when enemies are offline/online. - Might incorporate the online/offline function into locater agents. - A checkbox to mutually allow watching would be good because seeing when friends are online is a valuable feature. @19 min https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/en24podcast/Episode009.mp3 Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1031	Posted - 2015.05.14 12:06:37 - [226] - Quote Zappity wrote: Fozzie talked about this on the EN24 podcast: - Watchlists have been on the change list for a while. - Not very happy with the use of watchlist to see when enemies are offline/online. - Might incorporate the online/offline function into locater agents. - A checkbox to mutually allow watching would be good because seeing when friends are online is a valuable feature. @19 min https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/en24podcast/Episode009.mp3 To be fair the choices to deal with watchlists are either restrictive or enhancing QoL (watchlisting multiple people at once)
TurboX3 Hax. Wrecked. 93	Posted - 2015.05.14 12:10:12 - [227] - Quote Love watchlists for follow scrubs & Super pilots... coming to a wormhole nearby to despawn sites! No Trolling Please
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 543	Posted - 2015.05.19 07:58:00 - [228] - Quote Zappity wrote: Perfect, free intel is bad. Watchlists are OP. There is a good argument for them in a social context but that could be achieved by an approval mechanism from the other person. See this thread for more: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=386367 Isn't it just hilarious that after all this, after all the sneering contempt and jokes at my expense we are now seeing, confirmed by the devs themselves local being nerfed and turned in to a benefit for the owners of that space and from what I hear Fozzie wants to get rid of watchlisting. So keep laughing you pestilent chucklefucks look at who has caused the game to change at a fundamental level yet again. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2337	Posted - 2015.05.20 00:34:50 - [229] - Quote Are you some kind of Nostradamus In Space or something? Wow, man. Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Iyokus Patrouette Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 486	Posted - 2015.05.20 00:49:36 - [230] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Zappity wrote: Perfect, free intel is bad. Watchlists are OP. There is a good argument for them in a social context but that could be achieved by an approval mechanism from the other person. See this thread for more: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=386367 Isn't it just hilarious that after all this, after all the sneering contempt and jokes at my expense we are now seeing, confirmed by the devs themselves local being nerfed and turned in to a benefit for the owners of that space and from what I hear Fozzie wants to get rid of watchlisting. So keep laughing you pestilent chucklefucks look at who has caused the game to change at a fundamental level yet again. we are all so proud of you we could poop. ---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
Ripblade Falconpunch Centurion Logistics 128	Posted - 2015.05.20 22:30:32 - [231] - Quote Yeah watch lists are cool and all. Glad our CSM rep is focusing on things that have so much vital importance for the majority of w-space. Gotta see when the enemy super pilots log into their C2's yo. How about focusing on something other than your own play style - can a brother finally get alliance bookmarks ffs?
Viggo Konstanin Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 42	Posted - 2015.05.21 19:18:18 - [232] - Quote I think we can all agree that this thread has been a resounding success.
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 2111	Posted - 2015.05.22 08:13:12 - [233] - Quote Viggo Konstanin wrote: I think we can all agree that this thread has been a resounding success. Don't know about everyone else but I thought it was great. It will be an excellent outcome when it is finally fixed. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1032	Posted - 2015.05.23 11:13:53 - [234] - Quote I really hate to use real life examples, but in this case I feel it transfers kind of nicely. Now in RL: Anyone with a cell phone can be triangulated, located and tracked (this isn't a legal discussion, it's a technology discussion). What we can't do is be immortal through cloning. We can't warp time and space and have free travel across the galaxy. Now in EVE: We are immortal. We can at the push of a button warp time and space on a whim. We can teleport massive fleets. We can do all these pretty awesome super advanced spacey things. With all the power and technology we have in EVE it seems pretty hillarious to me that we somehow forgot to master a location technology that is actually for reals here and now. Is it 'free' intel? Sure I'll agree with that. Given the competative nature of the EVE universe is it plausible, probable or a down right given that there is a technology that allows the handful of imortal beings that zoom around by warping space and time to be tracked? I'd say it's a downright given. Do some ninnies totally space hate it, because it inconveniences them and forces them to acknowledge there are other players in the game (some even deliberately trying to space violence them)? Sure (Ninnies always gonna hate)! Does it allow characters to interact with each other in exciting and interesting ways? Yes (some might argue that is the point of paying for and logging into an mmo). I'm not sure how this even keeps coming up as a serious discussion. If I were to catagorize watch list removal I would label it as a massive game changer (almost everyone uses it) that will dramatically change how the game is played. In my opinion it would nerf fun and interesting player interaction. Making it concentual is kind of absurd in light of EVE space technology. Are you guys really lobbying that Spaceman Spiff can hack a data site, but he can't hack into whatever data stream folks use to navigate their spaceships across eve. The 'nerf WL' arguements don't really make sense in the world we play in. The watch list doesn't need to be fixed. It needs to be protected as is.
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1654	Posted - 2015.05.23 17:44:28 - [235] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: I really hate to use real life examples, but in this case I feel it transfers kind of nicely. - sitting in station and having no ideas what's outside - sitting in station and having no options to deal with other pilots - sitting on gates and having no ideas what's on the other side - being in system and being unable to hide yourself in local - .... I want to say that using RL as base leads to too many "why?"s in this game.... The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Dante Alicante From Hell's Heart 2	Posted - 2015.05.25 03:34:04 - [236] - Quote Hali-Marmora wrote: Give the ability to opt out of showing when you log in This +1
Dante Alicante From Hell's Heart 3	Posted - 2015.05.25 03:37:50 - [237] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: I really hate to use real life examples, but in this case I feel it transfers kind of nicely. Now in EVE: We are immortal. We can at the push of a button warp time and space on a whim. We can teleport massive fleets. We can do all these pretty awesome super advanced spacey things. With all the power and technology we have in EVE it seems pretty hillarious to me that we somehow forgot to master a location technology that is actually for reals here and now. Is it 'free' intel? Sure I'll agree with that. Given the competative nature of the EVE universe is it plausible, probable or a down right given that there is a technology that allows the handful of imortal beings that zoom around by warping space and time to be tracked? I'd say it's a downright given. Then by the same token, I invent a technology that prevents other people from being able to "hack" my signal. Because of being an immortal being that zooms around, ya know?
Kalel Nimrott Henthell Corporation 1143	Posted - 2015.05.27 15:27:29 - [238] - Quote Watch lists are fine. One thing is to bring a little mistery, another is wrecking the balance of the game. Henthell Corporation ESD Director.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.