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Jav torps nerfed ?

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Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:43:00 - [31] Edited by: Zixxa on 24/10/2006 17:45:12 Originally by: Butter Dog so? take out some of the stabs from your lowslots and use fitting modules fitting a full rack of torps is no problem for anyone but the most retarded raven pilot You are so *tarded, or just noobish? Every idiot in the game could fit anything using RCU and CPU, but it is for small price no damage mods no damage controls no sensor backups(ever heard, dude?) And even with this modules it is NOT EASY to fit MWD 6 Sieges, some kind of tank and heavy NOS.
Hydrian Alante The Loot Company	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:48:00 - [32] Jav Torps are too overpowered. They need a nerf! But I think this nerf is to harsh. Just lower the damage to 380 but keep the ecplosion radius at 300 or just nerf it to 350.
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:48:00 - [33] If they nerf it like the way Leandro posted they will be useless and redundant. However, some nerf should be there because they are ridiculously overpowered, yes I use them you can still run normal torps for bs fights or rage + painter setups.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:48:00 - [34] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 24/10/2006 17:49:02 Originally by: Testy Mctest Leandro, at the minute these kill everything, even frigates to an extent, and certainly kill everything cruiser sized or bigger. They're basically cruise missiles with much more damage and an irrelevent drawback. They're overpowered, so they've been nerfed. They needed it. I know, because I fly with multiple Ravens everytime I play, and they annihilate anything they hit; it's wrong that a battleship class ship can shoot everything from small to large with one kind of ammo. Drones do that too, but at least they have range issues. And that is a reason to nerf them to a point where using cruise missiles is better in EVERY case? If they are too good against frigs in PvP then nerf their exp velocity. If their range is too long nerf their flight time or missile velocity. But why damage and exp radius? With those stats there is no reason to use them at all. They are much more expensive than T1 torps and do pretty much the same. They fly faster (ooooohh so great) and they have a slightly higher exp velo. Which matters squat if the target is so fast that the exp velo becomes a true damage-reducing factor. This must all be a conspiracy to make my give up PvE and go into the market and PvP full time... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:52:00 - [35] Originally by: Tassi If they nerf it like the way Leandro posted they will be useless and redundant. However, some nerf should be there because they are ridiculously overpowered, yes I use them you can still run normal torps for bs fights or rage + painter setups. Fury cruiser is better than normal torpedos. Rage torpedoes are too specific to be useful anywhere except real fleet command. Painters, webbers, inetl, coverts, etc. With damage output comparable to the standard guhship. And impossibility to use these toprs raven in fleet battle.
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:53:00 - [36] than we will all switch to the drake?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:56:00 - [37] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/10/2006 17:56:03 Originally by: Tassi If they nerf it like the way Leandro posted they will be useless and redundant. However, some nerf should be there because they are ridiculously overpowered, yes I use them Yeah, NOW people start confessing... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Tassi than we will all switch to the drake? No, cuz in a turn drake will be nerfed too. And all missile weapon. I am switching to Gallente and Rokh. Because Rokh is for gallente it will be never nerfed.
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:59:00 - [39] Originally by: Zixxa No, cuz in a turn drake will be nerfed too. And all missile weapon. I am switching to Gallente and Rokh. Because Rokh is for gallente it will be never nerfed. Are you stupid?
Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:00:00 - [40] Originally by: Tassi Originally by: Zixxa No, cuz in a turn drake will be nerfed too. And all missile weapon. I am switching to Gallente and Rokh. Because Rokh is for gallente it will be never nerfed. Are you stupid? He's just one of those "Caldari are missiles only" idiots...

Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:02:00 - [41] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/10/2006 17:56:03 Originally by: Tassi If they nerf it like the way Leandro posted they will be useless and redundant. However, some nerf should be there because they are ridiculously overpowered, yes I use them Yeah, NOW people start confessing... Most people have been saying for a long time that they where overpowered, that they should been nerfed at the same time as precision cruise. But it's one thing to nerf something overpowered and one thing to make it completly useless. I can't think of even one situation where I would be using these now. No point what so ever. It's like nerfing tremor to have 50% range bonus and do less damage than carbonized lead but give it a slight tracking bonus instead.
Dark PIne	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:03:00 - [42] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 24/10/2006 17:19:31 Okay, complete stats for the nerfed Bane and Inferno Javs (unnerfed in brackets)[T1 torp in []] Exp Radius: 400m (300m)[400m] Flight time: 12.5s (25s)[30s] Max. Velocity: 3750m/s (3750 m/s)[1250m/s] Max. Velocity Penalty: -20% (-20%)[0] Exp. Velocity: 500m/s (500 m/s)[250m/s] Damage: 380 (450)[450] So, using T2 javelins over T1 torps gives you -20% speed penalty and -16% damage penalty, but you gain +100% in explosion velocity. What is the supposed use of a javelin torpedo in Kali?
Robet Katrix Beagle Corp R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:04:00 - [43] i can say, as a experienced user of jav torps, a few things. if they are nerfed as shown here, there will be no reason whatsoever to fit torps anymore. Most torp users figured that javs were in for a small nerf, i figured something on explosion velocity personally, but on dmg AND range as well? W T F mate. torps did more dmg to bs and cruisers, and comparable to precision dmg to frigs at lower velocity. I figured it was meant to be torp best vs BS both about equal on cruisers, and cruise best vs. frigs the thing is to fit a fullr ack of t2 seige you need a cpu and in most cases an rcu or at least one pds as well to run a mwd/nos other modules. Cruise being far easier to fit did a bit less dmg but allowed for more utility in your lows and other 2 highs. as it stands missiles will be the lowest DPS large weaponry in the game. javs outdid some thing in long range, even though 20 seconds to reach target with JAVS never seems to figure into range calculations. anyways. whats a load of crap. i now understand why people whine. because ccp always overdoes it. at least i have t2 cruise to work with as well... but those sucked to hell to begin with vs. anything bigger than a t1 cruiser.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Tassi Are you stupid? No. I am clever. And I am switching to Gallente. Do you follow me?
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:08:00 - [45] drake my friend!
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:09:00 - [46] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Testy Mctest Leandro, at the minute these kill everything, even frigates to an extent, and certainly kill everything cruiser sized or bigger. They're basically cruise missiles with much more damage and an irrelevent drawback. They're overpowered, so they've been nerfed. They needed it. I know, because I fly with multiple Ravens everytime I play, and they annihilate anything they hit; it's wrong that a battleship class ship can shoot everything from small to large with one kind of ammo. Drones do that too, but at least they have range issues. I predict price of sieges II droping to 2 mil again... might be good for reprocessing... Rage have got a rather nice boost, so I'm not sure about that.
El Yatta Caldari Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:09:00 - [47] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 24/10/2006 17:19:31 Okay, complete stats for the nerfed Bane and Inferno Javs (unnerfed in brackets)[T1 torp in []] Exp Radius: 400m (300m)[400m] Flight time: 12.5s (25s)[30s] Max. Velocity: 3750m/s (3750 m/s)[1250m/s] Max. Velocity Penalty: -20% (-20%)[0] Exp. Velocity: 500m/s (500 m/s)[250m/s] Damage: 380 (450)[450] Now I know I only use them for PvE so my opinion does not count, but I think this is quite a bit too extreme. Nerf the flight time and even the exp velocity for all I care, but keep the radius and damage the same. I dont understand this. I fly with jav torps a lot, and they are uber. Yes, they needed a nerf (although anyone who says they are useful vs frigs is clueless, last time I was tackled by a claw in my jav raven I didn't scratch it with javs, I killed it with warrior IIs). they needed a MEDIUM SIZED nerf, but now looking at the above they dont seem to be better than T1 in anyway at all! People (stupid people) said the same of rages, but they are fantastic vs capitals and in gangs with painters (such a lot of fun, but requires great co-ordination and sacrifice of ECM in the gang for painters). However, who is going to sacrifice a large chunk of damage for... a tiny range improvement (over t1's quite uber range for high-damage ammo) - 3x speed (no nerf) but just over 1/3 flight time (useless), and no longer any explosion radius improvement. So, whats the advantage of them, then? Exactly? Double explosion velocity? T2 torps are situational, rage's situation is vs capitals and when you have huginn support. So whats Javelin's sitution - vs. targets with 400 sig yet go faster than 250m/s? Whats that, dominixes with afterburners or something? My proposed changes would be: Attribute: My Nerf, \|SiSi Nerf\| (TQ) [Tech 1] Exp Radius: 320m \|400\| (300m)[400m] Flight time: 20s \|12.5s\| (25s)[30s] Max. Velocity: 3750m/s \|3750m/s\| (3750 m/s)[1250m/s] Max. Velocity Penalty: -20% \|-20%\| (-20%)[0] Exp. Velocity: 500m/s \|500m/s\| (500 m/s)[250m/s] Damage: 425 \|380\| (450)[450] I feel nerfing damage, range and explosion radius is enough, without removing the benefit in ALL of those departments. ---\|\|---
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:10:00 - [48] Rage got a boost? what??
Zar Dim Minmatar Anus Horriblis	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:14:00 - [49] Originally by: Zixxa Javelin dps now is below CRUISE DPS. For what hell shoudl I use torps? And care about fitting? Rage fit is usable only with zillion painters + few webbers + covert + . How many time you have zillion painters? QFT Javelins needed nerf, but that goes overboard tbh. We got now complete reverse, previously there was no need to use Fury cruises, now Javelins are worthless. Please strike a balance. On another subject cruises Fury, 10 secs flight time, max speed 1750, and damage only 15% more then generic cruises is this a joke or what?
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:15:00 - [50] There is no place to nerf further javelin in terms of damage. AFAIR it only 25% more damage that fury cruise. 10% less damage for javelin and you have to fit fury cruise, it is much more effective, simple to fit and precision cruise much more useful than javelins.

Zar Dim Minmatar Anus Horriblis	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:18:00 - [51] Originally by: Tassi Rage got a boost? what?? Where??? As useless as ever.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:20:00 - [52] Originally by: Tassi Rage got a boost? what?? Say goodbye to 1000m explosion radius... and hello to a 600m radius.
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:22:00 - [53] hmm thats quite a boost, dmg still the same?
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:23:00 - [54] Originally by: Leandro Salazar With those stats there is no reason to use them at all. Im no good at pulling missile stats from the top of my head, but I'll take your word for that; hopefully they'll nerf them less by the time they come out, then. But to be perfectly honest, with the state of missiles in this game currently, I dont think I'll ever be unhappy to see missiles overnerfed; they're simply too unbalanced. Now, rage torps with a 600m explosion radius? Hmm.... Scrapheap Challenge Forums
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:23:00 - [55] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Tassi Rage got a boost? what?? Say goodbye to 1000m explosion radius... and hello to a 600m radius. Great deal! Turn on MWD and be happy. With 100 m/sec explosion it is required some webbing toooooooo. And correct distance tooooo. And for Raven "famous" with its speed, agility, lots of PG to fit MWD and few free low slots to fit some nanos it is easy task. What the level of stupidity!
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:24:00 - [56] Originally by: Tassi hmm thats quite a boost, dmg still the same? Its not, bit less, can't remember off hand. And range is reduced. But thats fine its a close range weapon. Its going to hurt battleships a lot if you have a target painter though.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:31:00 - [57] Originally by: Butter Dog An MWD will give the average BS a sig radius of 2200. So won't they just hit for full damage? Because of explosion velocity. 5 times reduced damage half, 6 times reduced damage to 80%, 7 times(700m/sec - easy for any BS in game)reduces damage almost to zero. Guys, I am tired to explain so simple things. May be you will have some time to read the FAQ???
Zar Dim Minmatar Anus Horriblis	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:31:00 - [58] Edited by: Zar Dim on 24/10/2006 18:32:58 Originally by: Butter Dog An MWD will give the average BS a sig radius of 2200. So won't they just hit for full damage? 100 explosion velocity! Now calculate for how much damage it will hit?
Robet Katrix Beagle Corp R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:00:00 - [59] no. if it's speed exceeds 100km the torps do substanially less dmg. meaning you need a web on it as well
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:12:00 - [60] I will await the time until Tuxford has worked out how to read his own writing or the benefits of copy+paste before casting any judgement.



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