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Zar Dim Minmatar Anus Horriblis	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:26:00 - [61] Originally by: Robet Katrix no. if it's speed exceeds 100km the torps do substanially less dmg. meaning you need a web on it as well Yeah, now to the easy part, how to web someone in the raven. When this someone wants to keep a distance.
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:32:00 - [62] So one of the worst DPS ammo gets nerfed even more... This doesnt make any sense to me. WildCat
Paigan Amarr Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:55:00 - [63] Edited by: Paigan on 24/10/2006 19:58:34 Originally by: Testy Mctest Leandro, at the minute these kill everything, even frigates to an extent, and certainly kill everything cruiser sized or bigger. They're basically cruise missiles with much more damage and an irrelevent drawback. They're overpowered, so they've been nerfed. They needed it. I know, because I fly with multiple Ravens everytime I play, and they annihilate anything they hit; it's wrong that a battleship class ship can shoot everything from small to large with one kind of ammo. Drones do that too, but at least they have range issues. Okay i agree that they were overpowered and needed a nerf. Half range and 400m explosionradius would be okay. But also less damage than T1 drives them hard to the edge of uselessness. For getting T2 turret ammo reduced from 200% imbalance to 150% imbalance (compared to T1 turrets, not to missiles), the T2 Torps get nerfed from 120% imbalance to around 70% "balance" (or 30% uselessness if you know what i mean) Javelins are hardly better than T1 Torps now, more like a variation on an equal tech level. While T2 turret ammo is still totally over the regular T2 bonus design. -- This game is still in beta stage
Nybbas Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:19:00 - [64] null get a large tracking nerf now, try to look at the other ammo types before you start complaining that they didnt get nerfed. Also HAHAHA JAVELIN TORPS FINALLY GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED! less damage than t1? ono!! Spike ammo does less damage than tech 1, you dont see my whining.
Commoner Caldari The Foundation of Free Traders The Core Collective	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:21:00 - [65] Originally by: Nybbas null get a large tracking nerf now, try to look at the other ammo types before you start complaining that they didnt get nerfed. Also HAHAHA JAVELIN TORPS FINALLY GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED! less damage than t1? ono!! Spike ammo does less damage than tech 1, you dont see my whining. Doesn't spike give better dmg than the longrange T1 counterpart?
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:36:00 - [66] Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/10/2006 17:07:52 "Slightly" overpowered? :) Its about time that those things get in line with the other weapons. I would hope that they get a range reduction too, because they are meant to be SHORT RANGE weapons with that kind of damage. I would like to repeat for you "Torpedo t2 Raven is almost crap." use it only in small gangs having excellent commander. With latest changes torpedo t2 Raven does not exist at all as warship. A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. Now that Void L has recieved a reduction in damage the Torp Raven vs. Blasterthron engagment will be even closer and you have the audacity to whine? ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Hex'Caliber Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:45:00 - [67] All t2 ammo has been changed so that the penalties only affect the weapon. Advanced blaster ammo has a severe tracking penalty now. A nightmare for ships like the Taranis and the high transversal speeds needed to stay alive and I hate to think what it will do to the Hyperion which already misses out on the tracking bonus of the mega. I am sure these changes will all see a fair amount of rebalancing before they hit live, or at least, I hope to god they do. Regards HexCaliber
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:47:00 - [68] Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period.
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:52:00 - [69] Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:02:00 - [70] Originally by: Testy Mctest it's wrong that a battleship class ship can shoot everything from small to large with one kind of ammo. . /me looks at dominix, if you assume drones are ammo.... Originally by: Testy Mctest Drones do that too, but at least they have range issues. Being able to instantly hit at 205km with t1 gear not enough for the new drone snipers? --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
GrumpyCat	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:02:00 - [71] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Calling someone a noob when you're dieing to a torp raven in a megatron. So funny. Here's a hint fit MWD and heavy drones II.
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:13:00 - [72] Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Butter Dog An MWD will give the average BS a sig radius of 2200. So won't they just hit for full damage? Because of explosion velocity. 5 times reduced damage half, 6 times reduced damage to 80%, 7 times(700m/sec - easy for any BS in game)reduces damage almost to zero. Guys, I am tired to explain so simple things. May be you will have some time to read the FAQ??? 500 m/s = 93% base damage 600 m/s = 89% base damage 700 m/s = 85% damage 540 * 0.85 = 459 That's still more than a T1 torp. Please go back to arguing for stabs, it seems more your cup of tea.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:23:00 - [73] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Go-go to pilot "kindergarden", may be it helps to you
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:29:00 - [74] Originally by: GrumpyCat Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Calling someone a noob when you're dieing to a torp raven in a megatron. So funny. Here's a hint fit MWD and heavy drones II. Quite frankly he/she deserves it - hiding behind an alt, and calling someone a liar whilst clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Besides, I haven't died to a torp Raven, reading comprehension 4tl eh? But anyway let me enlighten you as to Torp Raven vs. Blasterthron, IÆm showing you the numbers but this is not simply æin theoryÆ, this is tried and tested with real shipsà Megathron; Ion Blaster II's Ogre II's Void Large, 2x Dmg mods, plate/rep Omni tank - typical balanced Blasterthron. 900 Dps + 317 dps (drones) (includes 3% Rof/large hybrid damage implants) 79/53/67/67 resists, 71 hp/sec repair. Raven, Siege II, 3x BCU II, Hammerhead II's Inv Field II's, XL C5-L with boost amp - yes I have fought this during testing with a good friend. 688 dps + 158 dps (drones) 57/83/74/66 resists, 156 hp/sec repair. Now look at the respective 'kill times' vs. the tanks: Megathron vs Raven, (797 dps vs 66% + 420 dps vs 74%) - 156/sec = 224 dps 7500/224 = 33.5 sec Raven vs Megathron, (688 dps vs 53% + 158 dps vs 67%) - 74/sec = 301 dps bleedthrough 10841/301 = 36 sec 2.5 seconds difference, and what did this assume? 1/ Both ships start firing at the same time. 2/ Both ships are stationary and within 2.6km So as you can see, sub 15km the Megathron wins by a gnats whisker (33%-50% Structure to put it into perspective), take the starting range over that and the Raven wins. Oh and what's a Raven's maximum range with torps again?... ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:32:00 - [75] Originally by: GrumpyCat Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Calling someone a noob when you're dieing to a torp raven in a megatron. So funny. Here's a hint fit MWD and heavy drones II. Actually, Gabriel is right.
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:32:00 - [76] Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Go-go to pilot "kindergarden", may be it helps to you They should just ban alts from the forums... Anyway read the post above, and as I stated there, this is not simply 'theory' this is what happens in practice, unless of course you don't know how to fit a Tank/Gank Torp Raven. ...I mean you are less than a month into the game afterall... ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:35:00 - [77] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: GrumpyCat Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Calling someone a noob when you're dieing to a torp raven in a megatron. So funny. Here's a hint fit MWD and heavy drones II. Actually, Gabriel is right. Zixxa is most more vehemently wrong than Gabriel will ever be right though
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:35:00 - [78] Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Because of explosion velocity. 5 times reduced damage half, 6 times reduced damage to 80%, 7 times(700m/sec - easy for any BS in game)reduces damage almost to zero. Guys, I am tired to explain so simple things. May be you will have some time to read the FAQ??? 500 m/s = 93% base damage 600 m/s = 89% base damage 700 m/s = 85% damage Are you idiot? Never seen rage trops in action? So expecially for you, noobie, CCP created good missile guide where explained how high speed of targets protect you(noobie-forever) from missiles. Because real life warfare is not for you. Quote: That's still more than a T1 torp. If you HAVE ENOUGH TP IN RANGE. Quote: Please go back to arguing for stabs, it seems more your cup of tea. Please, get away, u dum noob. You do not understad eve basics of the gameplay and have experience of the trial user before tutorial.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:38:00 - [79] Edited by: Butter Dog on 24/10/2006 21:38:57 Originally by: Zixxa Are you idiot? Never seen rage trops in action? So expecially for you, noobie, CCP created good missile guide where explained how high speed of targets protect you(noobie-forever) from missiles. Because real life warfare is not for you. So you will have to use a web like every other close range T2 ammo? And?
Leshrac Shepherd Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:38:00 - [80] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Leandro Salazar With those stats there is no reason to use them at all. Im no good at pulling missile stats from the top of my head, but I'll take your word for that; hopefully they'll nerf them less by the time they come out, then. To tell you the truth, if the problem is that T2 torps having 150km max range don't have enough range to warrant fitting them instead of T1, the solution comes from cutting the range on T1 torps, not increasing T2 range.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:44:00 - [81] The problem, as many of you have pointed out was jav torps hitting small ships. Had they not nerfed the range of the torps too, this would have been kind of solved with the 400m exp radius. But anyone who uses jav torps for 100+ ranges will switch to cruise meaning smaller ships are in MORE danger. And to all those who say torps should be short ranged. I specifically remember Tuxford or TomB saying they wanted to give missle users more fleet/long range options when javelin torps were introduced. So I don't understand why the flight time was messed with in such a way. Javelin torps now do less damage than t1, but will obviously hit the target faster. If your in a close range fight, I'd prefer the damage. Javelins will have a niche of about 80-100km on a raven. Anything below that will be t1 torps, anything above that will be cruise. But I'm sure Tuxford already knows this and won't mind explaing his logic behind this
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:13:00 - [82] Originally by: Butter Dog haha, brilliant :) About time, too. 600DPS from 240km? NOT ANY MORE. Range wasn't the issue IMO. Signature and explosion velocity was why I used javelin torps. Ah well, needed it for citadels, but it does make both models of torp very limited in usefulness. Less damage, fair enough. Lower range, fair enough. 25% signature increase on top of these things makes their usefulness more debatable. OK, so they're still better on explosion velocity than T1s, but ... shrug. I'll play with the drake whilst I'm waiting for cruise 5 to finish.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:20:00 - [83] They are even listed in the market as 'Advanced long range torpedoes'. Guess someone has to make a new category now, like 'Obsolete suckage torpedoes'. The exp radius nerf really kills them. Why not nerf exp velocity instead and keep the exp radius? If a frig in PvP is slow enough to be affected by a 250 m/s exp velocity torp, it by all means should die imho. As for the flight time nerf, I am all for that. Long range missiles are a stupid concept by default. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:23:00 - [84] I guess i'll fit cruises again... furys + damps will still work. Nerf resistance 4tw.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:24:00 - [85] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Go-go to pilot "kindergarden", may be it helps to you They should just ban alts from the forums... Anyway read the post above, and as I stated there, this is not simply 'theory' this is what happens in practice, unless of course you don't know how to fit a Tank/Gank Torp Raven. ...I mean you are less than a month into the game afterall... Go-go to kinderarden and read "arythmeticss for dumbs" Mega kill time 5(str)+7(arm)+30(shield) = 42sec Raven kill time 6(str)+32(arm)+15(shield) = 56 sec Raven is dead, and left your quickfit theory for your mommy. Also I wonder how happy Raven choosing the only right missile. Shaman?
Robet Katrix Beagle Corp R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:38:00 - [86] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Go-go to pilot "kindergarden", may be it helps to you They should just ban alts from the forums... Anyway read the post above, and as I stated there, this is not simply 'theory' this is what happens in practice, unless of course you don't know how to fit a Tank/Gank Torp Raven. ...I mean you are less than a month into the game afterall... just because he is new does not mean he is wrong. as it stands a blaster mega will kick the **** out of a raven 90% of the time, in solo one on one combat. The other 10% of the time the mega usually retains the ability to mwd away and warp away as well, since no ravens of any decent setup have a web. your calculations are off in so many ways im not going to waste my time, but if you actually think that TEIR 1 torps will beat a t2 megathron your an idiot.
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:47:00 - [87] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 24/10/2006 22:54:50 Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Go-go to pilot "kindergarden", may be it helps to you They should just ban alts from the forums... Anyway read the post above, and as I stated there, this is not simply 'theory' this is what happens in practice, unless of course you don't know how to fit a Tank/Gank Torp Raven. ...I mean you are less than a month into the game afterall... Go-go to kinderarden and read "arythmeticss for dumbs" Mega kill time 5(str)+7(arm)+30(shield) = 42sec Raven kill time 6(str)+32(arm)+15(shield) = 56 sec Raven is dead, and left your quickfit theory for your mommy. Also I wonder how happy Raven choosing the only right missile. Shaman? Oh I feel a forum warning coming up, but by all means keep it up Firstly I never use quickfit, from what I've seen of other peoples use it uses too many errors. Secondly re-read the numbered assumptions in my post. Those kill times are only applicable if both ships start stationary within the 2.6km optimal of Void L. Thirdly this isn't an exercise in number crunching (my arithmetic is just fine thanks) this is tried and tested. Fourthly, post with your main, or is hiding behind an alt spamming insults the best you can do? ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:53:00 - [88] TBH, comparing megas to ravens is pointless. It almost never happens and their damages work in vastly different ways.
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:54:00 - [89] Originally by: Robet Katrix Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Go-go to pilot "kindergarden", may be it helps to you They should just ban alts from the forums... Anyway read the post above, and as I stated there, this is not simply 'theory' this is what happens in practice, unless of course you don't know how to fit a Tank/Gank Torp Raven. ...I mean you are less than a month into the game afterall... just because he is new does not mean he is wrong. as it stands a blaster mega will kick the ** out of a raven 90% of the time, in solo one on one combat. The other 10% of the time the mega usually retains the ability to mwd away and warp away as well, since no ravens of any decent setup have a web. your calculations are off in so many ways im not going to waste my time, but if you actually think that TEIR 1 torps will beat a t2 megathron your an idiot. Then post how they are or STFU. This is tried and tested, not simply theory. Put Raven (T2 fitting with T1 torps) at >15km from a Blaster Megathron and your "kicking the out of a Raven 90% of the time" is utter *****s mate. From a 15km start its a 33%-50% structure job. Oh and one more thing, I'm not the one hiding behind an alt spamming insults here. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Nybbas Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2006.10.24 23:04:00 - [90] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 24/10/2006 23:00:55 Originally by: Robet Katrix Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Go-go to pilot "kindergarden", may be it helps to you They should just ban alts from the forums... Anyway read the post above, and as I stated there, this is not simply 'theory' this is what happens in practice, unless of course you don't know how to fit a Tank/Gank Torp Raven. ...I mean you are less than a month into the game afterall... just because he is new does not mean he is wrong. as it stands a blaster mega will kick the ** out of a raven 90% of the time, in solo one on one combat. The other 10% of the time the mega usually retains the ability to mwd away and warp away as well, since no ravens of any decent setup have a web. your calculations are off in so many ways im not going to waste my time, but if you actually think that TEIR 1 torps will beat a t2 megathron your an idiot. Then post how they are or STFU. This is tried and tested, not simply theory. Put Raven (T2 fitting with T1 torps) at >15km from a Blaster Megathron and your "kicking the ** out of a Raven 90% of the time" is utter nonsense mate. From a 15km start its a 33%-50% structure job. Oh and one more thing, I'm not the one hiding behind an alt spamming insults here. you were overgenerous in your calculations, you didnt even take into account that the megathrons DPS is actually less due to not only a nerf from the tracking speed from the void ammo, but also the fact that any close range fighting that involves movement is going to hurt your DPS bad because large guns + close range on any target is a nightmare, even with blasters on a megathron with level 5 skills. not to mention a ravens biggest shield resistances are going to be your only two damage types, while the enemy pilot is able to choose. : ) to everyone else disagreeing with him, congrats on being wrong. And to all you javelin torp users... cry more please. My only regret is that I wasn't able to use this overpowered weapon type a little bit more on my caldari alt before it was nerfed.

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