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Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:49:00 - [1] Finally got onto Sisi for some testing. Here are some numbers for those of you wondering about the cap issue Relevant skills info Max gunnery, including Controlled Bursts 5 Amarr BS 5 Max cap skills Max armor tanking skills No implants Testing scenario Undock from station with 100% cap, 4 cap booster 800s loaded, and another 12 in cargo. Measure time from initial firing till cap death (ie. one or modules inactivate due to insufficient cap). If using cap booster (1x Heavy Electrochemical), cap boosting begins almost immediately after firing commences. If using repairer, delay 10sec before activating. Results are average of 3 attempts. Results 8x MP II + Conflag + 3x HS II without cap booster: 1min 21sec 8x MP II + Conflag + 3x HS II with cap booster: 4min 21 sec, last cap booster consumed at 3min 53sec 8x MP II + Conflag + 3x HS II + 1x LAR II with cap booster: 1min 58sec, 8 cap booster 800s remaining 8x MP II + Conflag + 3x HS II + 2x LAR II with cap booster: 1min 7sec, 12 cap booster 800s remaining 8x Tachyon II + Aurora + 3x HS II without cap booster: 1min 3sec 8x Tachyon II + Aurora + 3x HS II with cap booster: 2min 6sec, 8 cap booster 800s remaining These numbers are the absolute best you can expect and tbh a bit unrealistic. There aren't too many fights where you start out with 100% cap and have no one NOSing you. In testing, you can expect closer to 2/3 those times in a normal PVP scenario both short and long range. Or less if you're fighting a NOS Domi . I capped out almost every time when fighting another BS. The cap use is simply put beyond ridiculous. Devs, I hope you reconsider and turn the Abbadon into something useful. As it stands, it's simply a joke and you should be ashamed for even releasing it. Gimme a ship where I can use both bonuses at the same time, like every other ship in the game
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:52:00 - [2] Fit small lasers _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Sniser 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:55:00 - [3] Originally by: Toaster Oven 8x MP II + Conflag + 3x HS II + 1x LAR II with cap booster: 1min 58sec, 8 cap booster 800s remaining 2 min at 1200dps its 144000 hp raw dmg Why i need more time to kill someone? It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:55:00 - [4] Originally by: Toaster Oven Gimme a ship where I can use both bonuses at the same time, like every other ship in the game nos domi don't bennefit 5% hybrid damage i wanna that gonna changed to 7.5% armor rep. and give 5% hybrid damage to Hyp! Hyperion - 10% to dmg Dominix - 10% to drones and 7.5% armor rep - like Myrmidon all is happy Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:56:00 - [5] sick, truly sick. There is not point even creating these threads because you will never get a decent dev reply, yes we can debate this for months to come but it seems tux and others don't give a crap about it, either there working on somethin gHUGE to change ammar and wont tell us OR there gonna leave them as they are and let people train that race for a loss cause cause at the moment thats what it is a LOSS CAUSE to train ammar, cause your gimped every which way you turn. pathetic if you ask me and i'm fed up with it
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:58:00 - [6] Originally by: MECTO Originally by: Toaster Oven Gimme a ship where I can use both bonuses at the same time, like every other ship in the game nos domi don't bennefit 5% hybrid damage i wanna that gonna changed to 7.5% armor rep. and give 5% hybrid damage to Hyp! Hyperion - 10% to dmg Dominix - 10% to drones and 7.5% armor rep - like Myrmidon all is happy Those are some of the weakest arguments I've ever seen. Gallente is all about dmg and shield tanked gank-a-Domi can be quite effective. As is, it's already a pwn machine. Go troll somewhere else please, kthx
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:01:00 - [7] Originally by: Toaster Oven Dev's you should be ashamed for even releasing it. Gimme a ship where I can use both bonuses at the same time, like every other ship in the game QFT, CCP you really should be feeling ashamed at this point in time, If these stats are correct for the tier 3 ammar BS then you really have NO CLUE what you are doing JESUS this annoys me so much I wanna go to iceland and punch the person who approved this in the balls
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:01:00 - [8] Originally by: Sniser Originally by: Toaster Oven 8x MP II + Conflag + 3x HS II + 1x LAR II with cap booster: 1min 58sec, 8 cap booster 800s remaining 2 min at 1200dps its 144000 hp raw dmg Why i need more time to kill someone? Read the post thoroughly. It's more like 80 seconds against another BS with 2 heavy NOS. The 50% HP boost + the tanking bonuses given to Tier 3 BS means that's not enough time to pop a decent PVP BS tank.
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Wizzkidy Originally by: Toaster Oven Dev's you should be ashamed for even releasing it. Gimme a ship where I can use both bonuses at the same time, like every other ship in the game QFT, CCP you really should be feeling ashamed at this point in time, If these stats are correct for the tier 3 ammar BS then you really have NO CLUE what you are doing JESUS this annoys me so much I wanna go to iceland and punch the person who approved this in the balls my opinnion - they should not realease any t3 bs except rokh - cause they r useless Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
starship enginer	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:02:00 - [10] Edited by: starship enginer on 25/10/2006 13:02:49 i like the amarr tier 3 i think your looking at it wrong though. plate it not rep it just like with a gank geddon something like 8x MP T2 : 20km, web, cap inj, tracking comp[or tracking desrupter] 2x 1600 plates, 1x large T2 rep, 2x energized, 2x dmg mods. if that fits im pretty happy. Originally by: Wizzkidy Originally by: Toaster Oven Dev's you should be ashamed for even releasing it. Gimme a ship where I can use both bonuses at the same time, like every other ship in the game QFT, CCP you really should be feeling ashamed at this point in time, If these stats are correct for the tier 3 ammar BS then you really have NO CLUE what you are doing JESUS this annoys me so much I wanna go to iceland and punch the person who approved this in the balls they would be stupid to let you gank at 1200dps and tank at 500dps. oh and if u guys want your cap so bad, loose the 2/3 dmg mods for 2/3 cap power relays
Shadowsword Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:04:00 - [11] Originally by: Sandra Tseng Fit small lasers You know, I might just try it. 3 HS, 2 sensor boosters, 2 tracking comps, 8 medium beams and 5 lows left for an nice passive tank. Kindy sad, however, to have the choice between making the biggest Amarr battleship relegated to an escort role (something a Drake will do even better, it seems), or fit it with non-amarr weapons... ------------------------------------------ Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward? Shadowsword: whatever happen, if they need to flee they can honestly say the faced the enemy.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:05:00 - [12] Detailed ideas Quote: ABADDON proposal 1 : +5% RoF and 5% armor resist PLUS static -62.5% cap usage ABADDON proposal 2 : +5% damage and +5% armor resists PLUS static -50% cap usage ABADDON proposal 3 : -10% cap usage and +5% armor resists ABADDON proposal 4 : -10% cap usage and -5% cap recharge time ABADDON proposal 5 : +5% RoF bonus and -12.5% cap recharge time For argumentation and old chatter... follow top link. __ Always question everything. Including yourself. My skills (on BIG public site)
Rina Shanu Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:07:00 - [13] Originally by: starship enginer Edited by: starship enginer on 25/10/2006 13:02:49 i like the amarr tier 3 i think your looking at it wrong though. plate it not rep it just like with a gank geddon something like 8x MP T2 : 20km, web, cap inj, tracking comp[or tracking desrupter] 2x 1600 plates, 1x large T2 rep, 2x energized, 2x dmg mods. if that fits im pretty happy. The 1600mm plates will not help yu kill anything or survive anything if you have no capacitor to activate/use the rest of the modules. The thing is you should fit damage mods adn all so taht by th end of the 1min and somthing when your capacitor runs dry your target is dead. Can you kill another BS in 1minute ? Not talking about average nub here but about an evenly skilled player. Image removed, not appropriate for this site. -Suvetar then make me a sig Suvetar what has 4 legs and 1 arm? a happy pitbull
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:07:00 - [14] Edited by: Toaster Oven on 25/10/2006 13:10:06 Originally by: starship enginer Edited by: starship enginer on 25/10/2006 13:02:49 i like the amarr tier 3 i think your looking at it wrong though. plate it not rep it just like with a gank geddon something like 8x MP T2 : 20km, web, cap inj, tracking comp[or tracking desrupter] 2x 1600 plates, 1x large T2 rep, 2x energized, 2x dmg mods. if that fits im pretty happy. Why would you be happy with that? You can fit an equivalent setup on a Geddon with a damage control in the additional low slot. You end up doing more dmg, equivalent tank, and last far far longer before running out of cap. All for 1/3 the price. Using Abbadon like that makes no sense. Quote: if u guys want your cap so bad, loose the 2/3 dmg mods for 2/3 cap power relays ROFL. You have no clue if you think 2-3 cap relays are even going to put a dent in the cap consumption
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:08:00 - [15] Edited by: meppa on 25/10/2006 13:10:00 Tried abbadon against belt rats with 3 heatsinks and full rack of tachyons w aurora (as in your starndard long range fleet setup). Managed to kill one serpentis cruiser and put second serpentis cruiser in armour. Seems like those cruisers can take lots of raw damage that would kill players ships without problems. If a ship can't fire its weapons for more then 2 minutes without fitting cap injectors there is something wrong about it. Change our armour repping bonus for cap reduction while firing, or even our rof bonus for that and it will be decent in long range combat. (or you could change description to: "Warps to battlefield and sits there while tanking as it doesn't have cap to power its guns")
starship enginer	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:15:00 - [16] wtf the amrr race are the biggest whiners, i cant wait for this ship its a geddon with 14.286% more DPS from guns MUCH MUCH better ECM resistance, going from 17 to 22 is very nice More PG More CPU a 4th mid slot 25% more resistance what more can you ask for? wait a plate buff helps and most fights dont last longer than 2mins, actually mostly less than 1min its a nice ship, very nice, also, as a sniper its feking UBERRRRR if u all disagree still let me know ill post u some good setups
Kagero Machiko	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:16:00 - [17] maybe they could alter the cap bonus thing in the crystals. like with the high power crystals u get -50% rnage and 0 +/- to cap usage but on sum u get like -35% to the cap usage so mayeb if they alter them a bit so it gets a bit less cap used each time it fires and still keep the skill bonii. or simply reduce the amount of cap lasers use instead of droppign a bonus on the abaddon
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:16:00 - [18] Originally by: starship enginer wtf the amrr race are the biggest whiners, i cant wait for this ship its a geddon with 14.286% more DPS from guns MUCH MUCH better ECM resistance, going from 17 to 22 is very nice More PG More CPU a 4th mid slot 25% more resistance what more can you ask for? wait a plate buff helps and most fights dont last longer than 2mins, actually mostly less than 1min its a nice ship, very nice, also, as a sniper its feking UBERRRRR if u all disagree still let me know ill post u some good setups you know what? your so clueless that I aint even gonna give you the respect of a decent answer.
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:21:00 - [19] Originally by: meppa Edited by: meppa on 25/10/2006 13:10:00 Tried abbadon against belt rats with 3 heatsinks and full rack of tachyons w aurora (as in your starndard long range fleet setup). Managed to kill one serpentis cruiser and put second serpentis cruiser in armour. Seems like those cruisers can take lots of raw damage that would kill players ships without problems. If a ship can't fire its weapons for more then 2 minutes without fitting cap injectors there is something wrong about it. Change our armour repping bonus for cap reduction while firing, or even our rof bonus for that and it will be decent in long range combat. (or you could change description to: "Warps to battlefield and sits there while tanking as it doesn't have cap to power its guns") uh-huh - and how many of your shots did actually hit their mark and get a good hit? I never got the impression that TACHYON BEAM LASERS was your best Anti-Cruiser weapon... _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:23:00 - [20] TACHYON BEAM LASERS with Aurora have >150km optimal. Do you know what closerange cruisers do when you attack them at 150km? They MWD STRAIGHT TOWARDS YOU. MWD. No Transversal. You'll *****them. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:23:00 - [21] Edited by: meppa on 25/10/2006 13:23:53 Umm.. they are alterning cap usage on crystals. Farther away you move from standard, more cap it will eat. Wait, lets all fit standard crystals on our abbadons and fight at mid range always, no matter what gun. No matter that we lose in dps and in range, but this ship will work... On tachyons against cruisers. They hit fairly well at 150km range. With apoc i could have taken whole spawn without cap problems. The problem is that abaddon can't sustain its fire at all. Damage is good, but not that good..
DeadDuck Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:25:00 - [22] Originally by: starship enginer wait a plate buff helps and most fights dont last longer than 2mins, actually mostly less than 1min You actually are aware that the HP boost was made so the fights could last longer ? ....
Dammar Ephorate	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:25:00 - [23] So how long does it last with Gleam L?(or multis for that matter.) ..about 12 seconds? It's indeed as I feared it would be...can't say I'm surprised tbh.
Xordus Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:27:00 - [24] I actually like the bonuses. It just needs better base cap. Say 25% more capacitor, or better recharge rate, a combination. After the little I played with it, its more than obvious that you must devote some of your slots to cap recharge plus the booster. Even with a pwr relay the cap usage was crazy. It will need atleast 2-3 mandatory slots devoted to cap recharge Xordus
JoCool Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:27:00 - [25] If you fit beams, go for a light passive defense. 1 EAM II, and a 1600mm plate. There you still have 5 low slots available for HS and a few CPRs. Cap Booster for the mids, 3 free slots. Relays, if necessary a Sensor Booster. You are supposed to be able to either gank or tank - not both. That includes your fitting. Don't try to fit both and expect to excell in one or the other, choosing on the fly. You'll be average at best. _______________________________________________________________________ Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel! Oveur > ohnoes jocool
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:30:00 - [26] Originally by: Dammar So how long does it last with Gleam L?(or multis for that matter.) ..about 12 seconds? It's indeed as I feared it would be...can't say I'm surprised tbh. I was laughing too hard to do much testing with the new Gleam. FFS I had trouble hitting a carrier with Gleam loaded, much less a BS
Dammar Ephorate	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:34:00 - [27] Originally by: JoCool blahblahblah We are well aware of what the concept was for the ship as well as how to fit our ships. Thanks for treating us like a bunch of noobs just to pretend like nothing is wrong.
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:35:00 - [28] By looking in logs most hits were either [ 2006.10.25 11:51:01 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Tachyon Beam Laser II places an excellent hit on Guardian Chief Patroller, inflicting 80.6 damage. or [ 2006.10.25 11:51:01 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Tachyon Beam Laser II is well aimed at Guardian Chief Patroller, inflicting 77.9 damage. So hits were good, cap just runned out (cruiser resistances seem more nasty tough, could have been t2 variant). On strucuture i got one of these [ 2006.10.25 11:51:28 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Tachyon Beam Laser II places an excellent hit on Guardian Chief Patroller, inflicting 453.9 damage. Which is quite normal for tachyon fitted ships (so damage seems to be correct). As it takes bit more then a minute to kill the cap, i downed that first cruiser quite quickly. In 27 seconds to be exact. I am not complaining at all on damage but the fact that we can't kill anything before our cap is dry.
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:41:00 - [29] Edited by: meppa on 25/10/2006 13:42:20 Yep. Especially since at that point apoc and geddon does it better at that range, and cheaper :p edit to starshipengineer: And i can't do that with apoc without cap injector because?
starship enginer	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:42:00 - [30] Originally by: Toaster Oven Originally by: meppa As we are getting nice help on how to fit our ships. My fit was quite basic long range fleet setup with maxed damage and range. 8x T2 tachyon 2x T2 sensorbooster 2x T2 tracking computer 1x T2 medium repper 2x T2 Tracking enhancer 3x T2 Heatsink 1x T2 RCU The real kick in the balls is that in order to fit a heavy cap booster, you need another fitting mod. Even with AWU 5. So you waste 2 slots to fit a heavy cap injector on top of a rack of Tachs. Awesome ain't it? loose the 2 tracking enhancers, they stack with the tracking comps and add very little, add 2x 1600mm plates there, or 2x cpr, or 2x eccm, or 2x energized adaptive, or RCU then add a heavy cap inj in mids. or...... but not tracking enhancers
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:43:00 - [31] You need the trackinenhancers to compete in long range fleet. Max range is needed and if i lose them my apoc long range fleet fitting is better as it hits farther away and CAN SUSTAIN FIRE.
starship enginer	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:46:00 - [32] Originally by: meppa You need the trackinenhancers to compete in long range fleet. Max range is needed and if i lose them my apoc long range fleet fitting is better as it hits farther away and CAN SUSTAIN FIRE. no you dont, those 2 tracking enhancers get stacked with the tracking comps, thus adding the 4th tracking mod is almost totally worthelss. take one off and you will notice that your optimal barly goes down [plug in a +3% cheapo optimal inplant to make up if u wish] also, fleets NEVER fight at the exact edge of your optimal since u align away most times, thus 150km is about norm which it can hit at without those 2 tracking enhancers either way, this ships DPS is insane as a sniper! sure its got cap probs, jut you can overcome them fitting the ship properly. also its tracking is very very high compaired to other snipers!
Kyla Lianna	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:46:00 - [33] am pretty sure that when the details of the new ships was released one the devs said that The abaddon will out gun the geddon or out tank the apoc, just not at the same time. seems thats what everyone is wanting but it was listed as not happening. sure 8 tachyon II's but dont expect to be able to fit the full 7 slot armor tank, afterall it gets 5% to resists as well so comes in with sum built in hardeners anyways. eithe rthat or fit a ful 7 slot tank but dont expect the ultiamte high damage dealing lasers to go on it.
po lilopdface	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:47:00 - [34] Originally by: starship enginer what noobs, what is there not to like about this ship close range: 8x MP T2 1x Heavy cap inj. web. 20km. 1x tracking desrupter 1x Large II rep : 2x 1600 tungston : 2x energized adaptive : 2x dmg mod 27,885 armor HP with Great resistances! enough cap to fire and keep large T2 rep on for 2 mins!! over 1100DPS at 15km range hardes to jam amarr BS if you want a full tank setup try 5x DHP II 3x MP II 2x heavy cap injecter. web. 20km 2x large T2 rep: 1x exp 55% t2, 1x kin 55% t2, 1x thermal 55% t2, 1x energized adaptive T2, 1x DCU that is a MOSTER TANK. it will tank more than any other BS WHILE having zero cap problems [til cap charges run out, but fights dont last that long]. it also has great DPS for such a tank. off rough pen and paper calculations it tanks 750DPS on average [hit by all dmg types equally] and does over 650 DPS what is there not to love about this ship? QFT
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:47:00 - [35] Edited by: Toaster Oven on 25/10/2006 13:49:05 Originally by: starship enginer 8x MP T2 1x Heavy cap inj. web. 20km. 1x tracking desrupter 1x Large II rep : 2x 1600 tungston : 2x energized adaptive : 2x dmg mod 27,885 armor HP with Great resistances! enough cap to fire and keep large T2 rep on for 2 mins!! over 1100DPS at 15km range hardes to jam amarr BS Please read my post before spouting off numbers out of context. With 2 heavy nos on you, your cap will last about 80 seconds. Hardest to jam Amarr BS means nothing when other races get high sensor strength. And still, this is nothing a Geddon can't do better already. Quote: 5x DHP II 3x MP II 2x heavy cap injecter. web. 20km 2x large T2 rep: 1x exp 55% t2, 1x kin 55% t2, 1x thermal 55% t2, 1x energized adaptive T2, 1x DCU LOL, just LOL. Yay, you have the dmg output of a Domi with no NOS and no EW. Ok great, you have a tank. You'll run out of cap boosters in a minute and die a horrible flaming death. Quote: off rough pen and paper calculations I'm not interested in hearing the opinions of bench warriors and those who have no experience flying Amarr as seems to be the case with you. Ship is out there for testing. Those of us with the skills to use it properly can see just how terrible it is. Please come back when you have some real experience to contribute. Kthx
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:48:00 - [36] Gatecamp. Dual rep tank. Cap injector. Secure can full of cap 800s. Overpowered, but perhaps not given the cost. I'll be looking forward to its release. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:49:00 - [37] So medium repairer is ultimate tank these days? Wow i am so proud of being armour tanking amarr now. Wake up to real world, fairytale is over. Abbadon could perhaps out tank apoc, but it never can't out damage geddon because it can't sustain its fire. All changes you propose to that fit i had will pretty much make it worse then geddon in long range engagement. And i am concentrating on that as short range is more cap dependant with all the nossing.
starship enginer	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:52:00 - [38] Originally by: Toaster Oven bullcrap domi can not tank near this thing!! domi can fit 3 heavy nosf and does 150-200dps less domi drones can be killed, domi drones have flight time, domi gets 500dps with thermal only drones domi can not load t2 long rage ammo and warp in at 40km, shoot and warp out domi can not snipe, this ship has more DPS as a sniper than the tempest has with close range guns its feking UBBBERRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
migwar Viziam	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:52:00 - [39] How do those numbers compare to a nuetron fitted megathron fitted with a duel rep?
starship enginer	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:54:00 - [40] Edited by: starship enginer on 25/10/2006 13:54:39 Originally by: migwar How do those numbers compare to a nuetron fitted megathron fitted with a duel rep? you cant fit dual L rep and neutrons on a megathron, not even close. can not even do ions and dual L t2 rep. and this ship is nice, very nice. its can do great DPS and great tanking at the same time or you can do 1200+ DPS and have 28k armor HP and sitll fit a large t2 rep [and that armors got decent resistance!] Originally by: Dammar Originally by: starship enginer rabblerobble Only noob i see is the one hiding behind an alt because he's too cowardly to talk like that on his main. Same old, same old. Must suck having an ego that fragile. Why don't you tell us about it...and you can give us some beam setups too cause we don't know how to fit those either. atm i have no main hence using this char to post with but u might know me as one of the following xlop / vyperpit / gronsak
Dammar Ephorate	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:54:00 - [41] Originally by: starship enginer rabblerobble Only noob i see is the one hiding behind an alt because he's too cowardly to talk like that on his main. Same old, same old. Must suck having an ego that fragile. Why don't you tell us about it...and you can give us some beam setups too cause we don't know how to fit those either.
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:55:00 - [42] Edited by: meppa on 25/10/2006 13:55:53 Unfortunately at long range it is like Tempest with 70 shots (considering that abbadon can fire 100 shots and then it is out of cap and tempest has about half of rof and does nearly same damage, so gave some extra shots for the Tempest). Now raise your hand if you go to fleet battle in a tempest with 70 ammo total? ;)
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:55:00 - [43] Quote: 8x T2 tachyon 2x T2 cap rechargers 2x T2 cap rechargers 1x T2 medium repper 2x T2 capacitor power relays 3x T2 Heatsink 1x T2 capacitor power relay Fixed Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:56:00 - [44] Originally by: Nyphur Gatecamp. Dual rep tank. Cap injector. Secure can full of cap 800s. Overpowered, but perhaps not given the cost. I'll be looking forward to its release. You're using that as a positive argument? If I can drag an indy behind me, anchor a can full of goodies, and get setup without dieing. It means me and my gang pretty much have complete domination over the system we're camping. So you're not going to be firing at anything for long. In fact, any BS can do this trick. Doesn't make Abbadon anything special that it can join the club as well.
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:57:00 - [45] Originally by: starship enginer Originally by: Toaster Oven bullcrap domi can not tank near this thing!! domi can fit 3 heavy nosf and does 150-200dps less domi drones can be killed, domi drones have flight time, domi gets 500dps with thermal only drones domi can not load t2 long rage ammo and warp in at 40km, shoot and warp out domi can not snipe, this ship has more DPS as a sniper than the tempest has with close range guns its feking UBBBERRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr that's why domi need 7.5 rep bonus. Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
starship enginer	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:58:00 - [46] Edited by: starship enginer on 25/10/2006 13:58:50 Originally by: Toaster Oven Originally by: Nyphur Gatecamp. Dual rep tank. Cap injector. Secure can full of cap 800s. Overpowered, but perhaps not given the cost. I'll be looking forward to its release. You're using that as a positive argument? If I can drag an indy behind me, anchor a can full of goodies, and get setup without dieing. It means me and my gang pretty much have complete domination over the system we're camping. So you're not going to be firing at anything for long. In fact, any BS can do this trick. Doesn't make Abbadon anything special that it can join the club as well. it tanks farrrr better than any other BS its DPS to tank ratio is the best its guns range is high [can do 45km with t2 ammo] hence it would be the best at that job. Originally by: MECTO that's why domi need 7.5 rep bonus. no domi is fine. although i wouldnt mind loosing that +5% to hyb for a +25% drone HP
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:59:00 - [47] Originally by: Toaster Oven Originally by: Nyphur Gatecamp. Dual rep tank. Cap injector. Secure can full of cap 800s. Overpowered, but perhaps not given the cost. I'll be looking forward to its release. You're using that as a positive argument? If I can drag an indy behind me, anchor a can full of goodies, and get setup without dieing. It means me and my gang pretty much have complete domination over the system we're camping. So you're not going to be firing at anything for long. In fact, any BS can do this trick. Doesn't make Abbadon anything special that it can join the club as well. Compare the DPS tanked and dealt by the Abbadon orbitting a can of cap 800s with other BS doing the same. The abbadon will deal more damage and tank better. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:00:00 - [48] Edited by: Toaster Oven on 25/10/2006 14:01:34 Originally by: starship enginer xlop / vyperpit / gronsak ROFL, I thought you left the game after being ridiculed in so many threads. Guess you're back for more verbal abuse Edit - Just lost 50M, had bet you were Detaurus
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:00:00 - [49] Quote: 8x MP II + Conflag + 3x HS II + 2x LAR II with cap booster: 1min 7sec, 12 cap booster 800s remaining From the original post, it seems that you can fight exactly 1 minute 7 seconds on that gate. If your opponent doesn't die you are out of cap and die. Seems excellent to me. Btw are you planning on buying this ship bpo starship engineer so that you can sell us dozens and dozens of these ships when we try to use them and lose them?
Rina Shanu Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:00:00 - [50] Surely one of the 3 characters you probaly bought from the SellForums can fly amarr ?! If not maybe you could go ahead and buy an amarr able character and stop *****ing arround with calculations you make on paper. I prefer seeing the ship first than calling people nubs ! If you are the owner of such characters why did not you go on the test server and test the new BCs and BSs out ? How come you bring here calculations made on paer and have the nerve to pretend youknow so much better ? Practice makes perfect not pen and paper ! Image removed, not appropriate for this site. -Suvetar then make me a sig Suvetar what has 4 legs and 1 arm? a happy pitbull
starship enginer	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:01:00 - [51] Edited by: starship enginer on 25/10/2006 14:02:13 Originally by: meppa Quote: 8x MP II + Conflag + 3x HS II + 2x LAR II with cap booster: 1min 7sec, 12 cap booster 800s remaining From the original post, it seems that you can fight exactly 1 minute 7 seconds on that gate. If your opponent doesn't die you are out of cap and die. Seems excellent to me. Btw are you planning on buying this ship bpo starship engineer so that you can sell us dozens and dozens of these ships when we try to use them and lose them? no i dont build in eve although there is one problem with the amarr race which is gona get much worse, people will plate up more and amarr do em lots. hence that is not gona help much. but hopefuly tux will look into taking 10% em off armor and adding 10% to exp and it only lasts 1m with the setup he posted, use dual heavy cap injectors, it fits, then it lasts a lot longer!
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:02:00 - [52] BTW - if you are being NOSed while you are in a TACHYON (sniper) ship setup you are doing something horribly wrong and deserve to die. If you expect to be that close - fit massive tank (which this ship is more than cabable of) and step down a few tiers in guns (Pulse lasers instead of tachs maybe? Max NOS range is 25km for gawds sake) _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Frools No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:13:00 - [53] Originally by: Sandra Tseng BTW - if you are being NOSed while you are in a TACHYON (sniper) ship setup you are doing something horribly wrong and deserve to die. ironically the newly nerfed gleam puts a tach sniper down at about 23km optimal and about 160 with aurora all hail the rokh
Centurin Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:15:00 - [54] Edited by: Centurin on 25/10/2006 14:15:36 Originally by: starship enginer this ship can also be used as a massive tank curse 8x named heavy nosf 1x mwd : 1x web, 1x ECCM, 1x heavy cap injector 2x large t2 rep, 3x 55% t2 hard, 1x energized, 1x dcu That will tank 750+ DPS and it takes almost no skill time to train. if that ship is in your gang it can stop 4 hacs with 2 heavy nosf on each, it can hurt ANY ship greatly in the nosf dep 2months training time = great support ship and that is with 2months training, and on top of its great dps as a sniper, and its great close rage setups this is a nice ship! Please tell me that was a joke post... ----------------------------------------------- "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:15:00 - [55] 180km for tachs, but you can fire only 1minute 3seconds :p
LC Sulla BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:20:00 - [56] Edited by: LC Sulla on 25/10/2006 14:21:16 On face value it seems at if what the devs said could be accurate with decent skills, 'it can out-gun a geddon and out-tank an apoc although not at the same time'. It will certainly be able to out-gun a geddon for a very short period of time but that just may not be enough to compensate. What is really needed is a much larger base cap (which atm is smaller than the hyperion). OR they could significantly reduce the cap recharge time. As it stands the base cap recharge rate is 5.1 cap/sec compared with the hyperion's 4.8 cap/sec. Not so different except for the fact that lasers chew through caps much faster... Certainly looks like more tweaking needs to be done here. Maybe a special ability like a 25% reduction is laser cap usage (static) might help somewhat.
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:23:00 - [57] Or deployable solar sail type energy collector that would give 99% velocity penalty and you can't fly towards sun at all?
Frools No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:28:00 - [58] Originally by: meppa 180km for tachs, but you can fire only 1minute 3seconds :p Tachyon II + 3 TEII + aurora = 160km optimal sniper ammo was nerfed to 80% remember you can get 172km with 4 tracking mods an 3% optimal implant
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:29:00 - [59] Originally by: meppa 180km for tachs, but you can fire only 1minute 3seconds :p Still not liking this cap injector idea, eh? When you're sniping, there is nothing stopping you having a friend in an indy with cap charges next to you or a logistics cruiser 40km away feeding you and your buddies cap. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
LC Sulla BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:29:00 - [60] Originally by: meppa Or deployable solar sail type energy collector that would give 99% velocity penalty and you can't fly towards sun at all? Hah... Reminded me of a star wars quote (for some reason), Leia: would it help if I got out and pushed? Solo: It might!!
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:30:00 - [61] Edited by: meppa on 25/10/2006 14:31:24 Well, with fleets full of other snipers that fire 20km farther away then i would i don't need that industrial to carry me charges ;). I can just sit there and pretend that i am firing my guns at targets by mimicing the sound of tachyon beams over teamspeak. Oh, adding logistics is nice way to fix. Nice that amarr have a bs that needs its personal support cruisers while others can function alone :)
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:32:00 - [62] Originally by: meppa Well, with fleets full of other snipers that fire 20km farther away then i would i don't need that industrial to carry me charges ;). I can just sit there and pretend that i am firing my guns at targets by mimicing the sound of tachyon beams over teamspeak. Did.. what.. wait. wait. What? Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:33:00 - [63] Originally by: Nyphur Still not liking this cap injector idea, eh? When you're sniping, there is nothing stopping you having a friend in an indy with cap charges next to you or a logistics cruiser 40km away feeding you and your buddies cap. Except for the fact that the enemy will warp in right on top of you as soon as your friend pops out a can at sniper range? Guess that's not a problem if you're trying to save them the trouble of getting a covert warp in on you
Shadowsword Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:35:00 - [64] A corpmate mentionned that there's a rig that gives -20% cap usage reduction for turrets. Can someone hop on sisi, wait 2 hours on the queue and comfirm this? Would 2 of those rigs be the answer to make the Abaddon usable? Maybe, but then you're left with 1 rig, while others BS have 3 for rigs like 10% missile rof, 10% tracking, 10% damage...) ------------------------------------------ Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward? Shadowsword: whatever happen, if they need to flee they can honestly say the faced the enemy.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:35:00 - [65] Originally by: Toaster Oven Originally by: Nyphur Still not liking this cap injector idea, eh? When you're sniping, there is nothing stopping you having a friend in an indy with cap charges next to you or a logistics cruiser 40km away feeding you and your buddies cap. Except for the fact that the enemy will warp in right on top of you as soon as your friend pops out a can at sniper range? Guess that's not a problem if you're trying to save them the trouble of getting a covert warp in on you Anyone that can spot a jet can and warp his fleet to it in the 3 seconds the can will exist deserves a medal. I'll make it out of tinfoil for them. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:36:00 - [66] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: meppa 180km for tachs, but you can fire only 1minute 3seconds :p Still not liking this cap injector idea, eh? When you're sniping, there is nothing stopping you having a friend in an indy with cap charges next to you or a logistics cruiser 40km away feeding you and your buddies cap. Except for the fact that your indy will get one-volleyed by the other side's snipers. Add to that that the main advantage of lasers is their lack of ammo use, having to start using Cap Charges just to fire my guns is rather gamebreaking. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:37:00 - [67] Originally by: Nyphur Anyone that can spot a jet can and warp his fleet to it in the 3 seconds the can will exist deserves a medal. I'll make it out of tinfoil for them. All they have to do is click warp to as soon as it's out. Scooping the can won't cancel their warp once it's started. And I guarantee it's much faster than the process of opening a can, and then dragging contents into your cargo. Especially if it's in the middle of a lag fest.
Frools No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:37:00 - [68] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: meppa 180km for tachs, but you can fire only 1minute 3seconds :p Still not liking this cap injector idea, eh? When you're sniping, there is nothing stopping you having a friend in an indy with cap charges next to you or a logistics cruiser 40km away feeding you and your buddies cap. or you can both be in t2 apocs and do more damage for longer at further range (extra slot ftw) abaddon = bad tach boat as for pulse boat, i think it will be decent, i also think rigs could make or break it
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:42:00 - [69] Well, pulse boat still kills its cap on shooting alone, mwd is out of question unless you want 3 cap injectors. As pulse boat you will be slow and can't tank while you shoot or shoot while you tank. If it would have a cap so that i can fire its pulses without need to use booster charges all the time it could work but current concept where whatever you do and how ever you fit it you need booster charges isn't good. I would be happy to trade manditory booster charges to weapon ammo and perhaps i would get t2 ammo that i don't have to pay for insane amounts and lose it anyway when my ship gets destroyed. Besides, on close range combat it would be kind of nice to be able to use 5 heavy drones and have some mid slots free for something else then cap injectors don't you think?
Lucre STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:47:00 - [70] Edited by: Lucre on 25/10/2006 14:49:49 Originally by: Kyla Lianna am pretty sure that when the details of the new ships was released one the devs said that The abaddon will out gun the geddon or out tank the apoc, just not at the same time. seems thats what everyone is wanting Well, actually, no. We don't want a ship which will out-geddon the Geddon or outpoc the Apoc - we want a ship which will do what those ships don't. Or failing that, even if it doesn't do both, we'd kind of like it to be able to do whatever it does do for more than a minute or two. I can only wonder how the Gallente or Caldari would like a ship which could only carry enough "ammo" for 2 minutes of combat? - It's great flying Amarr, aint it?
Dammar Ephorate	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:53:00 - [71] Originally by: Lucre Originally by: Kyla Lianna am pretty sure that when the details of the new ships was released one the devs said that The abaddon will out gun the geddon or out tank the apoc, just not at the same time. seems thats what everyone is wanting Well, actually, no. We don't want a ship which will out-geddon the Geddon or outpoc the Apoc - we want a ship which will do what those ships don't. Or failing that, even if it doesn't do both, we'd kind of like it to be able to do whatever it does do for more than a minute or two. I can only wonder how would the Gallente or Caldari would like a ship which could only carry enough "ammo" for 2 minutes of combat? I must confess... I wanted a drone boat. At least that would have been different. This is simply a subpar combination of 2 things we already have. (it does come in a sexy package i will admit.) Same goes for the BC2.
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:57:00 - [72] Originally by: Shadowsword A corpmate mentionned that there's a rig that gives -20% cap usage reduction for turrets. Can someone hop on sisi, wait 2 hours on the queue and comfirm this? Would 2 of those rigs be the answer to make the Abaddon usable? Maybe, but then you're left with 1 rig, while others BS have 3 for rigs like 10% missile rof, 10% tracking, 10% damage...) Yep they are on sisi. They also add 10% more PG need for guns (5% more with maxed rig skills). Try to fit 2 and... RCU anyone?
BugxEarl Amarr Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:58:00 - [73] Or they can fix Amarr and give Apoc 5% dmg/lvl and give Abbadon something else. Apoc would still do less dmg than a geddon but will tank better (hvy drones + 33% dmg bonus >> med drones + 25% dmg bonus) so that still gives geddon its role. Abbadon should fill the role of the missing Amarr BS which is an extension of Arbitrator. WHERE IS THAT GOD DAMN BS!?
Sniser 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:02:00 - [74] Originally by: starship enginer wtf the amrr race are the biggest whiners, i cant wait for this ship its a geddon with 14.286% more DPS from guns MUCH MUCH better ECM resistance, going from 17 to 22 is very nice More PG More CPU a 4th mid slot 25% more resistance what more can you ask for? wait a plate buff helps and most fights dont last longer than 2mins, actually mostly less than 1min its a nice ship, very nice, also, as a sniper its feking UBERRRRR if u all disagree still let me know ill post u some good setups you are wrong. everyone is forgeting we have now rigs. Geddon with an abaddon setups will be out of powergrid but a abaddon will have a lot powergrid to be used yet. So use rigs with 15% or 15% rof! Then its when their damage increase by a lot, im not going to tell my setup but crush numbers and dont lost your pants This ship you can gank it to the hell (using rigs) or tank it to the hell (using rigs), Use plats and free your mind It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Sniser 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:07:00 - [75] Originally by: Shadowsword A corpmate mentionned that there's a rig that gives -20% cap usage reduction for turrets. Can someone hop on sisi, wait 2 hours on the queue and comfirm this? Would 2 of those rigs be the answer to make the Abaddon usable? Maybe, but then you're left with 1 rig, while others BS have 3 for rigs like 10% missile rof, 10% tracking, 10% damage...) yep its true It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:14:00 - [76] i hope the amarr whiner will be successful in changing the abaddon, cause i dont want to meet that monster in its current form on the battlefield Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Baun 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:16:00 - [77] Amarr has a close range gankship. Amarr has a tanker. Amarr needs a fleet sniper. Give us an optimal range bonus and/or a damage bonus and a static increase in cap/recharge or a static cap use reduction bonus. Give a ship that can be used as a sniper, not as an expensive geddon or an expensive apoc. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:18:00 - [78] Originally by: Baun Amarr has a close range gankship. Amarr has a tanker. Amarr needs a fleet sniper. Give us an optimal range bonus and/or a damage bonus and a static increase in cap/recharge or a static cap use reduction bonus. Give a ship that can be used as a sniper, not as an expensive geddon or an expensive apoc. Actually both apoc and geddon work as decent fleet snipers...
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:18:00 - [79] Rigs are interesting and could solve some problems. Now lets see, i need rig that gives faster cap recharge, then the rig that gives more cap oh and the rig that lowers my cap need for guns. Unfortunately this means i have to swap one lowslot item to pds to compensate extra grid required by guns. Well lets leave out that silly second tracking enhancer. On the otherhand. apoc has better cap and more grid left out on similar setup. Wonder what happends if we give it some nice rigs, like more damage and rof and something else usefull. Now lets consider the fact that apoc is cheaper. Yeah, i will go with apoc and abbadon for something else like illuminating solarsystems with pretty colors and giving great boost to eve economy by the demand of cap booster charges i need.
Brazero Amarr Noble House	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:19:00 - [80] Originally by: Toaster Oven Edited by: Toaster Oven on 25/10/2006 14:01:34 Originally by: starship enginer xlop / vyperpit / gronsak ROFL, I thought you left the game after being ridiculed in so many threads. Guess you're back for more verbal abuse Edit - Just lost 50M, had bet you were Detaurus Nah, he's gotta be Tuxfords bastard. Same ideas and same attitude Quote: <tuxford> Ah yes the Amarrians. Now bear with me apparantly I don't play Amarr or have ever heard of them, I read it on the forums.
Dopefish Amarr Quad and Fish	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:30:00 - [81] 8 x Megabeams (Standard L) 4 x capthingys dualrep tank 3 hardeners 2 caprelays does this fit? can it run one rep + guns for a reasonable ammount of time?
The Armin Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:42:00 - [82] Originally by: Dopefish 8 x Megabeams (Standard L) 4 x capthingys dualrep tank 3 hardeners 2 caprelays does this fit? can it run one rep + guns for a reasonable ammount of time? I don't think so. Try pulses instead :P They could perhaps with Ultraviolets. I don't like this new boat cause it sux and I've been saying that since it was on the drawing board. I wanted a drone boat too tbh. Not that I care anymore, it woulda been hard leaving the geddon in the hangar Give me 5% resists and 7.5% to drone tracking hp dmg pr lvl+125m3 dronebay Then we're talking decency =P They could put tracking disruptor boonii on it as well instead of resists but then we'd be needing like, more mids
Yamaeda	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:54:00 - [83] <sarcasm> As amarr gets contradicting bonuses making only 1 efficient at a time, i suggest that the hybrid races gets their bonuses changed to +shield boost and +armor repair. They should be able to choose. </sarcasm> I had hopes for a good mission runner, but trying to use both bonuses wont even make that. It definatly needs a bigger cap and/or added drone bay (100m3) or a 8th low slot. That last idea is in itself crazy, needing 1 more slot than other BS's to be comparable ... The standard -10% cap use of turrets gives higher cap efficiency, while a RoF bonus gives higher damage and also higher cap usage without affecting efficiency. A +5% damage increases damage and increases cap efficiency, although not as good as either of the specialized bonuses. It also increases alpha at the cost of lower dps (compared to RoF) while being more sustainable. You'd still have the gank or tank-problems, but you'd also have a semi-sustainable ship instead of a non-sustanable ship, making it (more) useful for missions and longer encounters/battles. +5% damage would make the Abaddon the alpha-strike BS, and give it something new to the Amarrian ship lines without breaking the design ideas. It'd give Abaddon a +42% better alpha and 7% higher dps than a Arma, instead of +14% alpha and +14% dps. Compared to a Apoc it'd mean +25% alpha and +25% dps instead of same alpha and +33% dps. +5% damage would still present a "gank or tank" as MP's will use 5,1 cap/s on a Abaddon compared to 2,54 cap/s for MP's on a Apoc, instead of 6,77 (!) with current RoF. +5% damage will be semi sustainable as you can lower weapons one tier and still have a dps similar to one tier above. DHB on Abaddon will work like MB on Apoc, while using 4,86 cap/s (DHB) instead of 3,6 cap/s (MP). So change the +5% RoF to +5% damage, it makes more sense on all planes. /Y
Jonay 3B Legio IX Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:04:00 - [84] why don't ask for a pasive module to fit in low that could reduce energy used from weapons when fired? this could help, and of course an increase in capacitor and a reduction in capacitor recharge time.
Baun 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:14:00 - [85] Edited by: Baun on 25/10/2006 16:17:58 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Baun Amarr has a close range gankship. Amarr has a tanker. Amarr needs a fleet sniper. Give us an optimal range bonus and/or a damage bonus and a static increase in cap/recharge or a static cap use reduction bonus. Give a ship that can be used as a sniper, not as an expensive geddon or an expensive apoc. Actually both apoc and geddon work as decent fleet snipers... Decent fleet snipers, not good ones. Since the amarr has good close range and good tanking it should have a ship thats good in the third role. Caldari are getting the fleet ship they don't have. Gallente are supposed to be getting the close range ship they don't have (though they are not). Minmatar are supposed to be getting an even better fleet ship making the Tempest their close range ship. Amarr is getting no role defined ship. Its getting a hybrid of two already OK overall ships that is itself actually nothing more than a turbo version of the geddon. Give amarr the role it does not have. If you don't want to make the Abaddon a sniper make it SOMETHING. Make it a drone ship, whatever. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:25:00 - [86] Heh true - i'd like to get 8 guns and +10% opti/lvl :)
M3ta Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.26 00:05:00 - [87] This ship is still unborn and it's already screwed to oblivion. Way to go, CCP. ------------------------------ loose != lose you're != your it's != its (CCP, fix Moa description) they're != there != their

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