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Deven Sunstorm Security Forces Domain	Posted - 2006.11.17 20:05:00 - [721] I am so sad and very disappointed. I was praying the Abbadon would be the answer to my Amarr battleship blues but alas, I've been let down once again. I see no reason to continue to play Amarr. Deven Sunstorm ***Security Forces Domain -SecFo-
XFreedomX	Posted - 2006.11.17 20:26:00 - [722] Originally by: BugxEarl Edited by: BugxEarl on 17/11/2006 18:43:05 Has anyone calculated the fitting on the abaddon with Tachyon and 2 cap rigs? In order to fit 8 Tachy II, you need 2 RCUII. Since fleet fitting naturally uses 3 HSII, what does the low-slot end up looking like? 3 HSII, 2RCUII, 1TEII, 1 slot left for roughly 300 grid worth of jack didly squat! Ok, this ain't so bad...but what exactly makes abaddon so special aside from the fact that its essentially an Apoc with 33% increase in firepower? (It literally is one in term of fleet...it cost 50% more and provide 33% more firepower for half the duration of Apoc). Not a fair comparison, Abaddon has more hp and 25% better all around resistance then the Apoc also.
XFreedomX	Posted - 2006.11.17 20:45:00 - [723] I see alot of people here trying to get a little extra for their race or trying to knock down other race instead of being fair. What should be happening here is you fittout the ships to try to make it too powerful and report it. Suggestion: 1. Stop complaining about the Rohk, 90% of caldari pilot can't snipe anyways, and by the time they train up the skills, if it is indeed too powerful, it will get nerfed (winner!) 2. Stop crying about the shield boost bonus for Mealstrum, less dmg, more tank means you are less likely to be primary. 3. Abaddon, if you can't fit 8 tachyon, then don't. You got a tanking machine here, use it. (You should be trying to fit it for a unbreakable tank and auto cannon) 4. Gallente pilot, stop crying about your BS, you know you will be flying the Rohk.
Caledric Amarr Spectral Armada Eternal Empire	Posted - 2006.11.17 21:21:00 - [724] Originally by: Deven Sunstorm I am so sad and very disappointed. I was praying the Abbadon would be the answer to my Amarr battleship blues but alas, I've been let down once again. I see no reason to continue to play Amarr. Only reasons I haven't given up on my Amarr is A) over a year worth of training put in, B) Curse and Pilgrim.
Miri Tirzan Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:28:00 - [725] Originally by: XFreedomX I see alot of people here trying to get a little extra for their race or trying to knock down other race instead of being fair. What should be happening here is you fittout the ships to try to make it too powerful and report it. Suggestion: 3. Abaddon, if you can't fit 8 tachyon, then don't. You got a tanking machine here, use it. (You should be trying to fit it for a unbreakable tank and auto cannon) The only problem is that Abaddon is not a better tanker than a geddon. The geddon can fit 7 Tachs, have 5 Heavy drones, and with skills, has 7 low slots left after it fits on EANM II to give it the same tanking as an Abaddon with more cap due to the 10% per level cap use bonus on the energy turrets. The geddon has just as good or better gank and can have, with in 3-4 percent, just as good a max tank with a whole lot more cap left to do things, like fire weapons. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Tricit Caldari Ganja Unlimited Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:37:00 - [726] Originally by: XFreedomX I see alot of people here trying to get a little extra for their race or trying to knock down other race instead of being fair. What should be happening here is you fittout the ships to try to make it too powerful and report it. Suggestion: 1. Stop complaining about the Rohk, 90% of caldari pilot can't snipe anyways, and by the time they train up the skills, if it is indeed too powerful, it will get nerfed (winner!) 2. Stop crying about the shield boost bonus for Mealstrum, less dmg, more tank means you are less likely to be primary. 3. Abaddon, if you can't fit 8 tachyon, then don't. You got a tanking machine here, use it. (You should be trying to fit it for a unbreakable tank and auto cannon) 4. Gallente pilot, stop crying about your BS, you know you will be flying the Rohk. So you're saying the Abbadon should be limited to small gank squads and pretty much nothing else?
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:48:00 - [727] Originally by: XFreedomX I see alot of people here trying to get a little extra for their race or trying to knock down other race instead of being fair. What should be happening here is you fittout the ships to try to make it too powerful and report it. Suggestion: 1. Stop complaining about the Rohk, 90% of caldari pilot can't snipe anyways, and by the time they train up the skills, if it is indeed too powerful, it will get nerfed (winner!) 2. Stop crying about the shield boost bonus for Mealstrum, less dmg, more tank means you are less likely to be primary. 3. Abaddon, if you can't fit 8 tachyon, then don't. You got a tanking machine here, use it. (You should be trying to fit it for a unbreakable tank and auto cannon) 4. Gallente pilot, stop crying about your BS, you know you will be flying the Rohk. lol so if i understand right the rokh is balanced because not many caldari pilots have rails... and because other ships are so crap that they will be not called as primary... very nice balancing parameters...
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.18 00:11:00 - [728] Originally by: XFreedomX 3. Abaddon, if you can't fit 8 tachyon, then don't. You got a tanking machine here, use it. (You should be trying to fit it for a unbreakable tank and auto cannon) Of course, you SHOULD put autocannons on a ship with an energy turrets bonus to make it work, it's so logical.
000Hunter000 Gallente Leviathan Corperation LTD	Posted - 2006.11.18 00:20:00 - [729] While looking at the Rokh, i feel fortunate i don't use Raven's anymore... pure ccp sillyness, give the Tier3 Caldari BS an uber shieldtank and rails so the entire caldari BS user group will switch to railgun training also... WHEEEEEEE LOOK AT MEEEEE!!!! i can snipe AND tank at the same time... Anyways now gonna fly the **** ships, see what thats like Resized tag... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp :p
XFreedomX	Posted - 2006.11.18 00:34:00 - [730] From the response I am getting, you are all still thinking of only the ship you care about. Lets go over it again. Rohk: You all think its the best because sniping is HOT. Everyone wants one. But so what, only one can be the best and right now it looks this is it. DonÆt worry about the shield resist bonus, its not gonna be a factor from 240km out. And if they get close enough, no amount of resist will help. Hyperion: Sniping Mega player will be flying the Rohk, so the short range blaster boat is the only role for this ship. Looks good for that role. Maelstrum: IÆd personally like to see the shield boost bonus replaced, but its not like this is a gimp bonus like some of you are saying. It is just not HOT like the range bonus. Abaddon: There is no such thing as Tank and Gank. You Amarr pilot canÆt have both. Fact of the matter is you have to chose one or the other. This ship is good enough to which ever one you want. Count yourselves lucky. (Oh by the way, it is way better then the geddon, 25% resist, higher HP, CAP. DonÆt believe me, come on the test server and I will show you how it will own a geddon)

Gragnor Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.11.18 00:52:00 - [731] Originally by: XFreedomX From the response I am getting, you are all still thinking of only the ship you care about. Lets go over it again. Rohk: You all think its the best because sniping is HOT. Everyone wants one. But so what, only one can be the best and right now it looks this is it. DonÆt worry about the shield resist bonus, its not gonna be a factor from 240km out. And if they get close enough, no amount of resist will help. Hyperion: Sniping Mega player will be flying the Rohk, so the short range blaster boat is the only role for this ship. Looks good for that role. Maelstrum: IÆd personally like to see the shield boost bonus replaced, but its not like this is a gimp bonus like some of you are saying. It is just not HOT like the range bonus. Abaddon: There is no such thing as Tank and Gank. You Amarr pilot canÆt have both. Fact of the matter is you have to chose one or the other. This ship is good enough to which ever one you want. Count yourselves lucky. (Oh by the way, it is way better then the geddon, 25% resist, higher HP, CAP. DonÆt believe me, come on the test server and I will show you how it will own a geddon) Placing an ACTIVE bonus obn a fleet ship is ill conceived due to lag and the fact that once you're called primary- you're dead, all you can do is warp out. The Rohk offer resistances which is far superior in that you can accept more damage as you align to warp out (if not already). The Maelstrom concept in this regard is ill conceived and this, I believe has been acknowledged by CCP. As Minmitar allways get the shaft, we don't expect this to change, despite how inappropriate and how many realistic suggestions we offer for alternatives. AS for range. Well think of it this way; being a fleet ship sucks when you cannot hit the enemy with your uber leet t2 weapons (195km) due to tracking nerfs and range nerfs and the (I win) can inflict damage (however limited) Rohk can hurt you from 230km. The irony is CCP TALKS about range nerfs YET introduces a new ship with a RANGE BONUS, calling it a fleet ship. Can you smell the bull****? If the Rohk is not overpowered; the Maelstrom is massively underpowered. And CCP knows this and REFUSES to comment on the grounds that they know their player base is right but its too embarrassing to admit. That's why I am so frustrated and annoyed with CCP. To make a mistake is human, to put your head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge it and fix it is stupidity.
000Hunter000 Gallente Leviathan Corperation LTD	Posted - 2006.11.18 00:53:00 - [732] meh, a main caldari ship with rails as its primary weapons is an abomination and nothing more, i couldn't care less if they gave it 10 railgun boni... now caldari BS pilots will have to make a choice, stick with missiles even though they know that there is a caldari BS outthere with a much better tank, or drop all those hard trained missile skills and work on your pathetic railgun skills. My guess a lot of pilots will do the later still, cuz they want the uber shieldtank for missions. But ok, enough ranting for now... i haven't even flown the **** thing yet so mebbe i shouldn't be so judgemental... (trying to get to the station where i bought both the rokh and the Drake so i can test them out) (OT: 1 in queue.. and after a while my ship started orbitting the gate automatically... WTH? is that a new feature also?) Resized tag... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp :p
XFreedomX	Posted - 2006.11.18 01:09:00 - [733] Well, like I said Rohk is now the sniper of choice. Minni pilots will have to adjust to that, no question. As far as the resist bonus over the active, that is a fact, you are right. However, given the role of a sniper, you will not be tanking so its a moot point, you are called primary you die. Its not like the Rohk pilot will be putting shield hardner and booster on it... that would be funny... so effectively with the resist bonus you have about 30% extra shield hp to go though. Like I said, no big deal. What can us Minni pilot do? I say, put your AC on the Abaddon and tank that baby up. I've not fly a tanked ship so looking forward to it. 4 AC 2 smart bomb, 2 hvy nos, mwd, webber, scram, sensorbooster, and a kick ass armor tank ftw!
Miri Tirzan Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.18 02:59:00 - [734] Edited by: Miri Tirzan on 18/11/2006 03:02:07 Originally by: XFreedomX From the response I am getting, you are all still thinking of only the ship you care about. Lets go over it again. Abaddon: There is no such thing as Tank and Gank. You Amarr pilot canÆt have both. Fact of the matter is you have to chose one or the other. This ship is good enough to which ever one you want. Count yourselves lucky. (Oh by the way, it is way better then the geddon, 25% resist, higher HP, CAP. DonÆt believe me, come on the test server and I will show you how it will own a geddon) All you seem to post is how good the Abaddon is when nearly anyone who actually flys Amarr ships have laid out many times this ships short comings. Yeah it can gank but it will drain the cap, and that with dual injector and a full load of charges in the cargo bay with 2 minutes. That is at very long range where it does 14 percent more damage than a geddon for 2 minutes, but after that the geddon can still fire and the abaddon is flying away to get cap back and another full load of injector charges. The geddon is just better. At close range the geddon owns the Abaddon with 7 turrets, 5 heavy drones, 8 lows and better cap usage. Max tank for all three ships end up being within 3-4 percent of each other. Abaddon may be the best as a per tank percent wise, but not enough to win a fight with an Apoc. The Apoc will have nearly the same tank, will have the same drones, and will have nearly twice the cap so that it can tank and fire forever. Once again the abaddon runs out of cap if it trys to tanks and fire weapons, not ganking weapons, just weapons. Abaddon is not better at either roll than the geddon or apoc so asking for a change that actully feels an Amarr ship class need is not unreasonable. As it is, the abaddon is going to be a wasted ship design that will see little use. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
BugxEarl Amarr Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.18 03:12:00 - [735] xFreedomx, I don't intend to flame but you seem to be rather clueless as to how PvP works. If someone wants to use an autocannon and roam around in a tanked Abaddon, everyone might as well do the same on a blaster Rohk or AC Maelstrom; there is nothing Abaddon offers over Maelstrom in mounting an AC. No, it does NOT have a 'better' tank. PvP tank is the amount of damage ship can soak up before its dead or incapacitated, and with an AC it'll die before it kills the enemy. If you are going to make a point, please go test your statement BEFORE presenting it to us; its no better than a flame if you do not (however good intentions you may have). Anyways, back to the point. Abaddon sacrifices its low-slot in order to get enough grid for cap use reduction rig. For close-range setup, it must sacrifice either a LARII or satify itself with rather pathetic 15% cap usage reduction (Can only mount single weapon rig due to grid problem). Since it cannot mount a plate like Apoc can in a fleet setup, long range setup does not get much of a better tank. My solution? If (now this is a big IF) Abaddon's bonus get adjusted to damage bonus per level (roughly 8~% overall damage reduction), energy weapon cap usage reduction rig should be changed to 25% reduction in cap usage. Close range, it'll still have less run-time than a geddon. At long range, you either must sacrifice some load of armor buffer for longer run-time, or can go for damage rig and get the best dps an Amarr sniper's got to offer. I think its a fair trade-off since it doesn't really make the ship more powerful since it'll still have cap problem.
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.18 03:15:00 - [736] Originally by: Miri Tirzan The only problem is that Abaddon is not a better tanker than a geddon. The geddon can fit 7 Tachs, have 5 Heavy drones, and with skills, has 7 low slots left after it fits on EANM II to give it the same tanking as an Abaddon with more cap due to the 10% per level cap use bonus on the energy turrets. The geddon needs 2 RCUII to fit 7x Tachyon II's. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.18 04:15:00 - [737] Originally by: Nifel The geddon needs 2 RCUII to fit 7x Tachyon II's. And the abaddon needs to fit about 4-5 cap recharge modules to sustain fire.
XFreedomX	Posted - 2006.11.18 04:43:00 - [738] 1) If you had read my earlier post, you'd have seen that my proposed solution to Abaddon's "problem" is to reduce the beam weapon's cap draw. I also stated above that with Abaddon, you need to choose weather you want to gank or tank, not both. 2) I will let others decide weather your geddan with 7 tachyon will win against the Auto Cannon configured Abaddon with the nos and the smart bomb at close range. 3) As for the Abaddon and Apoc have nearly the same tank... well, lets see both have 7 low slot but Abaddon has 25% resistance better then Apoc, seems like a 25% better tank to me. Please post your number for coming up with 3-4% of each other. (Oh, btw the difference between 80% resist and 75% resist is 25% reduction in damage)
XFreedomX	Posted - 2006.11.18 04:43:00 - [739] correction 20% reduction.
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.18 04:47:00 - [740] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Nifel The geddon needs 2 RCUII to fit 7x Tachyon II's. And the abaddon needs to fit about 4-5 cap recharge modules to sustain fire. Easy on the trigger-finger. All I did was point out that you have in fact 6 lowslots left after fitting 7x tach2's on the geddon. This "discussion" brings absolutely nothing to the table. It's degenerated into finger pointing and head-bashing. "ZOMG YOU CAN FIT AN EANMII ON THE GEDDON AND HAVE TEH SAME RESIST BONUS AS THE ABADDON!!!1" Yeah? And what about the rest of the fittings. What about the entire scale? Skirmish to fleet battles? At what point does it break down? What could be done about it. This means leaving out complete reshapes of the ship. Aint gonna happen in the small time it's left before Kali is deployed (yay... go CCP... not). Still think the Abaddon should have enough pg to put on 8x tach2 without fitting mods, 10% hp & 5% res and enough cap to fire the tachs for 3-4 minutes straight. Would make a valuable fleet ship, good buffer tank and possibly a good pulse/tank boat depending on just how much cap it'd be given. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama

Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.18 06:26:00 - [741] Originally by: Nifel Yeah? And what about the rest of the fittings. But that is the whole point. Yes, a geddon need 2 RCUs to fit 7 tachs. But an aba needs 1 RCU for 8 tach2, too. And 2 cap injectors to keep them firing for over 1 minute. Add 1 EAN2 to the geddon and both ships have exactly the same number of free slots. Quote: Still think the Abaddon should have enough pg to put on 8x tach2 without fitting mods, 10% hp & 5% res and enough cap to fire the tachs for 3-4 minutes straight. Would make a valuable fleet ship, good buffer tank and possibly a good pulse/tank boat depending on just how much cap it'd be given. Yes, like that it would be a valuable fleet ship. Would need 24-25k grid for that though. And, of cource, there is then still the question if amarr really need another fleet ship or what exactly the apoc is then for.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.18 09:28:00 - [742] still no changes to the battleships? if these go live like that there'll be a **storm coming from 3 outta 4 races Originally by:** Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.18 10:07:00 - [743] Originally by: Aramendel And, of cource, there is then still the question if amarr really need another fleet ship or what exactly the apoc is then for. shrug Some amarr (cough the whiners cough) has been complaining about the apoc for some time now. Change that instead? Once the 3rd 'special something' has been figured out for amarr that is. The only thing the apoc has going for it now that's unique to it is the ability to fire 8x tach2 (good alpha strike and good dps) for a very long time. Not breathtaking, but not half as bad as most people make it out to be either. What I can see though is that this rush of getting something different, something new... anything has blinded many people. Chances are they'll shoot themselves in the foot trying to get that. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.18 11:21:00 - [744] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Tiuwaz still no changes to the battleships? if these go live like that there'll be a **storm coming from 3 outta 4 races Im too exhausted from having complained since the preliminary stats showed up. CCP have had months to change them, but didn't. I dont think they think there is anything wrong with them. In a way, I kind of agree. They arent better than the previous ships and they arent worse either. They are just very... unexciting. after months of no change i dont think aswell that there'll be any change till Kali hits, i am probably also past caring besides the occasional outburst i have my setups rdy with which i can get some nice results, but it honestly feels like swimming against the stream to what they seem to have been intended for Originally by:** Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Kaden Seer Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.18 14:58:00 - [745] over nerfed ships? plz no <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>> More drone bay for Myrmidon!!!
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.18 15:51:00 - [746] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 18/11/2006 15:52:12 here is how Kaylana would fix the new Tier 3 BSs -------- Rohk -------- Leave it as it is -------- Abaddon -------- - 2 turret slot + 4 missile slots + 1 mid 600 TF 20000 MW 175 m3 Drone bay 10% turret disruptor optimal range per level 5% armor resistance per level -------- Hyperion -------- - 2 turrets + 4 missile slots - 1 low + 2 mid 83km lock range 150 m3 drone bay 10% remote sensor booster optimal range per level 5% Large Hybrid Turret damage per level --------- Maelstrom --------- 10% Shield Hitpoints per level 5% Large Projectiles damage per level And there you have it. The most exciting thing you could do for all the Tier 3 BS. So what if the Hyperion isn't godly blasterboat! I'll use all 4 of these ships in equal measure that is for sure. Everyone gets something different. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
O Olho	Posted - 2006.11.18 16:02:00 - [747] Edited by: O Olho on 18/11/2006 16:02:47 Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 18/11/2006 15:52:12 here is how Kaylana would fix the new Tier 3 BSs -------- Rohk -------- Leave it as it is -------- Abaddon -------- - 2 turret slot + 4 missile slots + 1 mid 600 TF 20000 MW 175 m3 Drone bay 10% turret disruptor optimal range per level 5% armor resistance per level -------- Hyperion -------- - 2 turrets + 4 missile slots - 1 low + 2 mid 83km lock range 150 m3 drone bay 10% remote sensor booster optimal range per level 5% Large Hybrid Turret damage per level --------- Maelstrom --------- 10% Shield Hitpoints per level 5% Large Projectiles damage per level And there you have it. The most exciting thing you could do for all the Tier 3 BS. So what if the Hyperion isn't godly blasterboat! I'll use all 4 of these ships in equal measure that is for sure. Everyone gets something different. Well that makes the Abaddon and Hyperion a little "Typhoonie" but I like it. My only suggestion would be to make the Ewar bonuses "+range AND +str" so they are a bit more potent. Range without strength leaves em lacking. And they need to reach 250km plz. And the Maelstrom is pretty much a no-brianer fix.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.18 16:12:00 - [748] Kaylana Syi, I approve. I'd have the Hyperion a dampener efficiency bonus instead of a range bonus. A range bonus only increases optimal to about 45km at most, while an efficiency bonus might mean that you'll need one less dampener on a target. - EVE is sick.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.18 16:23:00 - [749] Edited by: Aramendel on 18/11/2006 16:26:50 The scorp (and BB) has a 20% range boost/lvl, not 10%. Were the gal & amarr ECM BSs intentionally given weaker boni than caldari due to the higher amount of HPs, etc? Also, I would give the aba rather -2 highs and +2 mids (and reduced grid). An utility BS with only 5 meds is a bit low. Yes, it's amarr, but that would still be 1 less than gallente and 2 less than caldari.
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.18 16:33:00 - [750] Originally by: Kaylana Syi stuff Looks nice. Although I believe Hyperion would be better as: 10% remote sensor dampner optimal range per level 5% remote sensor dampner strength per level



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