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Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.21 17:51:00 - [811] Originally by: Leandro Salazar WTH are people complaining about the Rokh bonus now? Geez... The Rokh is the only really working tier3 and you want to nerf it? And if the Rokh really becomes the only viable fleet ship, so what? Fleets are boring anyway, having just one ship dominating them couldn't possibly make them any more boring. Please do NOT make the other tier3s into pure fleet ships too, make them useful in other combat types where the individual ship characteristics actually matter, and where they are useful also to people who are not fleet nerds. And what exactly is keeping an opposing fleet from warping in at 200km instead of 250 anyway? (Yeah I am a total n00b to fleet combat) ok so as fleet combat is so boring let's totally remove long range weapons... why to force cladari players to be so bored?
Shinjuro Solidline Enterprise Kith of Venal	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:10:00 - [812] Just flew the Maelstrom for the first time, and tried almost every setup that I could. As said before, WTF is the point of putting an active shield boost bonus on a ship designed for long range? As an AC platform, it is quite pointless. I found using a few nos in the place of AC's to be more usefull. If we are supposed to only have our Alpha strike then give it to us. Switch the ROF bonus to a Damage bonus. At least then the Maelstrom will have somewhat of a purpose. And if you refuse to do that, then at least consider switching the Boost bonus to a Overall Shield HP bonus. EVE is long overdue for a passive tanking BS.
Justin Cody Caldari The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:58:00 - [813] mmm passive tanking BS eh? you sure you want that? alongside great alpha strike damage? well well well...gimme my drake back then and we'll talk. Remind people that profit is the difference between revenue and expense. This makes you look smart. Scott Adams
BillyBong2 Amarr Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:02:00 - [814] For the Abaddon, what about using Pulses, tracking and plates. MWD, Webber,Tracking? Use the resists to survive up close. Instead of a Fleet 210km, why not try and get in close and really bring some damage to bear. Maybe I am naive, I see the Abaddon as the ship that would least likely want to be on the receiving end of a broadside from. Just my thoughts.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:12:00 - [815] Originally by: Justin Cody mmm passive tanking BS eh? you sure you want that? alongside great alpha strike damage? well well well...gimme my drake back then and we'll talk. alpha with autocannons?
Ms Rousseau	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:52:00 - [816] Originally by: Mirasta The Rokh isn't working as intended, its a better blaster boat than the new blaster boat. Theres a few reasons why rokhs wont be all that for fleet combat. To make it work in a fleet to use all its bounouses all your friends need to have one, otherwise you will be operating inside your optimal range. They dont do alot of damage, as said before the Mega will still be a better rail sniper because of its greater damage out put. The Rokh will be a great T1 sniper in its current form and allow people with fairly low gunnery skills to get in on the fleet sniping action, but at what price. if it was meant to target the newer end of the players and at a price tag of nearly 180mil theres a chance they will still choose a scorp or the time to train a mega. The main thing the Rokh is good for now is letting caldari players do something alittle bit more intresting other than having the raven and not having to think about ppositioning and range. Personally i think it should get a nerf before it get TQ, but i cant exactly put my finger on what but i belive a T1 Fitted Blaster Rokh shouldent beable to beet a 2003 Players Blaster hyperion with 4 T2 heavy drones. I think we'll see the Rokh as a weapon deployed against other snipers. With it's superior range but lower DPS it probably won't be a great countersniper in terms of kills, but it will force sniperthrons to find a new warp in point to attack. More of a thorn in the side then an omgwtfbbq'er. If people are complaining about the Rokh then it's probably because Caldari have the most solid identity of any race in Eve. Somewhere in development the other races went schizophrenic. I think the devs should talk to some RPers to find out what is best to do since they would have the best idea of their racial identity. Maybe not getting input from RPers is what got the 4 races into this schizo mess-- all they've done is listen to non-RPings PvPers who seem to want the races to have all the same ships but with different skins.
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:46:00 - [817] Originally by: BillyBong2 Instead of a Fleet 210km, why not try and get in close and really bring some damage to bear. Because in a close fight the armageddon does more damage at a third of the price. Forsch Defender of the empire It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:39:00 - [818] Originally by: Ms Rousseau I think the devs should talk to some RPers to find out what is best to do since they would have the best idea of their racial identity. Maybe not getting input from RPers is what got the 4 races into this schizo mess-- all they've done is listen to non-RPings PvPers who seem to want the races to have all the same ships but with different skins. hehe...i know a few rpers that would prefer the abaddon to be an untypical amarrian bs. not because we want all races to have the same ships but because we only fly amarrian ships and still want to have some ships that are good for pvp. if all 3 of our battleships rely purely on lasers we get to be utterly predictable in bs-sized pvp. on the crusier and frig-level its not so bad because we have the arbitrator and inquisitor there. now with the current bonuses on the abaddon: 5% laser damage (in case that gets fixed anyway) 5% armor resists the abaddon is at least not as crappy as it was before. it still fails because it still is nothing but a better geddon/apoc. but at least now it can perform the gank part to some decree without running out of cap instantly. now a quick fix would be to simply give it 6 unbonused launcher slots on top of that. then we would be able to actually use its supposed 2nd role and tank this ship without using projectile weapons. and thats one of the points many amarrian rpers hate: our tankers are better off with matari weapons if they really want to get a good sustainable tank going. if our tank-line of ships had some launcher slots we could use this other zero-cap weapon for tanking and from an rp-point of view missiles are far less heretical than matari projectile weapons. of course giving the abaddon launchers to tank with would further reduce the usefulness of the apoc but that ship has been in need of some change for a long time anyway. another option would be the big-arbitrator in place of the abaddon or apoc: 10% drone dmg/hp 20% tracking disruptor optimal range 5 medslots split launcher/turret/utility highslots 250m3 dronebay there are a lot of other ways to make the abaddon useful. just giving us 3 more or less identical battleships is not going to help us much though.
Mordrake MetaForge	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:43:00 - [819] Just scanned this thread to see if the new Caldari BS was as badly nerfed as the Drake yet... good to see it seems like Tux hasn't caved to the complainers yet on this one. "Arte et Marte"
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:44:00 - [820] Originally by: Ath Amon Originally by: Leandro Salazar WTH are people complaining about the Rokh bonus now? Geez... The Rokh is the only really working tier3 and you want to nerf it? And if the Rokh really becomes the only viable fleet ship, so what? Fleets are boring anyway, having just one ship dominating them couldn't possibly make them any more boring. Please do NOT make the other tier3s into pure fleet ships too, make them useful in other combat types where the individual ship characteristics actually matter, and where they are useful also to people who are not fleet nerds. And what exactly is keeping an opposing fleet from warping in at 200km instead of 250 anyway? (Yeah I am a total n00b to fleet combat) ok so as fleet combat is so boring let's totally remove long range weapons... why to force cladari players to be so bored? Wrong target. My portrait in Caldari because I prefer imperial uniforms over sunglasses, but ship-wise I am a Matari (well Jack of all trades really, but Caldari, Amarr and Gallente are just tools while the Minnie ones are my babies) so I take being called Caldari player an insult But still I wouldn't object to totally removing long range weapons! --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Ms Rousseau	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:52:00 - [821] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Originally by: Ms Rousseau I think the devs should talk to some RPers to find out what is best to do since they would have the best idea of their racial identity. Maybe not getting input from RPers is what got the 4 races into this schizo mess-- all they've done is listen to non-RPings PvPers who seem to want the races to have all the same ships but with different skins. hehe...i know a few rpers that would prefer the abaddon to be an untypical amarrian bs. not because we want all races to have the same ships but because we only fly amarrian ships and still want to have some ships that are good for pvp. if all 3 of our battleships rely purely on lasers we get to be utterly predictable in bs-sized pvp. on the crusier and frig-level its not so bad because we have the arbitrator and inquisitor there. now with the current bonuses on the abaddon: 5% laser damage (in case that gets fixed anyway) 5% armor resists the abaddon is at least not as crappy as it was before. it still fails because it still is nothing but a better geddon/apoc. but at least now it can perform the gank part to some decree without running out of cap instantly. now a quick fix would be to simply give it 6 unbonused launcher slots on top of that. then we would be able to actually use its supposed 2nd role and tank this ship without using projectile weapons. and thats one of the points many amarrian rpers hate: our tankers are better off with matari weapons if they really want to get a good sustainable tank going. if our tank-line of ships had some launcher slots we could use this other zero-cap weapon for tanking and from an rp-point of view missiles are far less heretical than matari projectile weapons. of course giving the abaddon launchers to tank with would further reduce the usefulness of the apoc but that ship has been in need of some change for a long time anyway. another option would be the big-arbitrator in place of the abaddon or apoc: 10% drone dmg/hp 20% tracking disruptor optimal range 5 medslots split launcher/turret/utility highslots 250m3 dronebay there are a lot of other ways to make the abaddon useful. just giving us 3 more or less identical battleships is not going to help us much though. that's what's great about the Khanid ships, even though there seem to be only tech 2 khanid ships, aside from there, is there any reason not to have a Khanid battleship? I know CCP has a 10 year plan for eve, but i don't see why, barring some radical change in the races that there cannot be a missile spewing Khanid BS. It won't be better than a raven at missiles, but close enough to compare them while armor tanking. Is that unbalanced? I don't think so. This is what I mean by asking RPers what they want, i think it's a great idea to break away from the rigidity of Amarr by using the Khanid designs, or even making in EWar-Drone ship like the Arbitrator. Any reason not too?
Mirasta Caldari Enigma Enterprises Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:56:00 - [822] Edited by: Mirasta on 22/11/2006 00:03:23 Originally by: Asariasha Oh lol, how can anyone loose in a meant to be Balsterboat with tech2 equipment to a tech1 Rokh. Ah, let me guess. Your with noob Sorry, but you aready mentioned the problems the Rokh will encounter in terms of fleet fights. Also, a Rokh would be crushed down by a Megathron Blasterboat, so why should it be nerfed? Just because you fitted the wrong modules and got pwned by a newb? ^^ Perhaps i wasn't clear. i was the noob in the Rokh, out tanking a ship with a tank bounous and out damaging a ship with a blaster bounous. But thats getting a Bit OT now. Point is, i shoulden't have won. Of couse, You are now reading my sig.
Mordrake MetaForge	Posted - 2006.11.22 00:13:00 - [823] Edited by: Mordrake on 22/11/2006 00:15:44 Edited by: Mordrake on 22/11/2006 00:14:38 Originally by: Mirasta Edited by: Mirasta on 22/11/2006 00:03:23 Originally by: Asariasha Oh lol, how can anyone loose in a meant to be Balsterboat with tech2 equipment to a tech1 Rokh. Ah, let me guess. Your with noob Sorry, but you aready mentioned the problems the Rokh will encounter in terms of fleet fights. Also, a Rokh would be crushed down by a Megathron Blasterboat, so why should it be nerfed? Just because you fitted the wrong modules and got pwned by a newb? ^^ Perhaps i wasn't clear. i was the noob in the Rokh, out tanking a ship with a tank bounous and out damaging a ship with a blaster bounous. But thats getting a Bit OT now. Point is, i shoulden't have won. This Caldari Character you are posting with must be your second account or an Alt..... were you posting in the BC Thread screaming to Nurf the Drake as well? What race is your most developed "Main" Character anyways? "Arte et Marte"
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.22 00:22:00 - [824] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Ath Amon Originally by: Leandro Salazar WTH are people complaining about the Rokh bonus now? Geez... The Rokh is the only really working tier3 and you want to nerf it? And if the Rokh really becomes the only viable fleet ship, so what? Fleets are boring anyway, having just one ship dominating them couldn't possibly make them any more boring. Please do NOT make the other tier3s into pure fleet ships too, make them useful in other combat types where the individual ship characteristics actually matter, and where they are useful also to people who are not fleet nerds. And what exactly is keeping an opposing fleet from warping in at 200km instead of 250 anyway? (Yeah I am a total n00b to fleet combat) ok so as fleet combat is so boring let's totally remove long range weapons... why to force cladari players to be so bored? Wrong target. My portrait in Caldari because I prefer imperial uniforms over sunglasses, but ship-wise I am a Matari (well Jack of all trades really, but Caldari, Amarr and Gallente are just tools while the Minnie ones are my babies) so I take being called Caldari player an insult But still I wouldn't object to totally removing long range weapons! nah the target was not you, but the idea that a certain aspect of the game should be accessible only to players that pilot a certain race... regardless if this can be considered boring or not... the fact that a particular form of pvp can be considered boring is not a justification to have it relegated to caldari users only... expecially considering that fleet battles maybe are not that exciting but are probably the most important form of pvp as is the way alliance fight each other
Noriath	Posted - 2006.11.22 00:23:00 - [825] Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Originally by: Noriath Caldari still get the least skilltraining of all races because they only need one set of ship skills to get the best EW, the best PvE, one of the best short range PvP ships and the best long range PvP ships. If you train for any other race you are basicly forced to train Caldari as well to get that kind of functionality. Congratulations! You won the 2nd medal this week for utterly stupid posting! Congratulations, you won the platinum bowl with minibar for utterly unqualified flaming!
BugxEarl Amarr Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.22 02:04:00 - [826] Caldari is not a jack-of-all-trade. They don't have a close range ganking ship with high damage output...but whatever, this whole Caldari this Caldari that is going off topic. Lets shift it back to something about tier3 BS. In light of the calibration point change, I'd like to mention a couple of things; t1 gets 200 calibration points, meaning....no more Abaddon filled with cap reduction rig! What does this mean? Basically, Abaddon's cap consumption got reduced by 33-% with the damage bonus change and it's got an increase of cap consumption by 15% due to rigs being un*****ble. For christ's sake atleast boost the cap use reduction rig both for hybrid and laser. Doesn't have to be godly amount, just enough to compensate for the change.
Angelic Resolution The Arcanum	Posted - 2006.11.22 04:16:00 - [827] Abaddon is excellent. Only problem it has is 8 Large lasers, lots of cap drain and no real way to keep all 8 firing continually. Extra mid slot for a cap recharger would work nicely IMO.
XFreedomX	Posted - 2006.11.22 04:56:00 - [828] And the Amarrian whinefest continues....
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.22 05:22:00 - [829] Originally by: XFreedomX And the Amarrian whinefest continues.... I think I can talk in the name of all Amarr pilots: ** off troll! Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.**
Noriath	Posted - 2006.11.22 06:45:00 - [830] Edited by: Noriath on 22/11/2006 06:45:51 Originally by: BugxEarl Caldari is not a jack-of-all-trade. They don't have a close range ganking ship with high damage output...but whatever, this whole Caldari this Caldari that is going off topic. Lets shift it back to something about tier3 BS. They don't? Hmm, strange, I could have sworn a TP/RT Raven was up there with the most powerful close range gankers, and generally capable of a dozen non-gank setups that work brilliantly at under 20km.
Kagura Nikon	Posted - 2006.11.22 09:27:00 - [831] Come on CCp. We are having several issues here but i will try to cover only a group the matar one. We have issues with arties loosing its AS.. maelstrombeing not very good... Amar ships with projectiles being better than mata with projectiles etc... You can solve all this changing all 5% damage bonus on matarian ships to 7% and changing Maelstrom 5%rof to 7% damage. Now Projectiles would stay at Minmatar ships as well alpha strike.
Shadowsword Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.11.22 09:35:00 - [832] Originally by: BillyBong2 For the Abaddon, what about using Pulses, tracking and plates. MWD, Webber,Tracking? Use the resists to survive up close. Instead of a Fleet 210km, why not try and get in close and really bring some damage to bear. Fitting for close range in large battles is just asking to get "kitted" inside an interdictor bubble, and get sniped from afar. Better to fit for long range and still be marginally effective in close. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Gragnor Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.11.22 12:31:00 - [833] I want to report a crime. I was just on Sisi and took on a Rohk, fitted with torpedoes at about 80km range. I was fitted with an XL SB plus 8 1400mm T1 arties with carbonised lead. I got WTFBBQPWNed, nothing new in that. The horror was watching my much vaunted leet alpha strike ARTY FAIL TO DO ANY DAMAGE GREATER THAN 80 on a single battery volley within OPTIMAL RANGE. As for tanking - yeah - that's really really cool - I was out of cap with 2 minutes. CCP; this is not applying the nerfbat - this is the destruction of Minmitar as a viable race to play Eve with in Fleet combat. You have some game balancing to do - either nerf the Rohk or fundamentally reconsider your position on artillery (admit you were wrong and reintroduce long range OMGWTFBBQ alpha strike).
Asariasha Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.22 12:45:00 - [834] Edited by: Asariasha on 22/11/2006 12:46:31 Oh lol and there comes the next whine about a BS sized Ferox called Rokh. Well Im waiting for the next nerfbat applied onto Caldari due to soooo much overpowered ships. Found any ironicism? If you want to beat a Rokh, just fit a AC setup and go for closerange as a Cyclone Pilot does with Ferox guys.
The Armin Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.22 15:12:00 - [835] wts: all my apocs. The Abaddon is the only bs ill use in fleet ever again ;)
Ather Ialeas Amarr Karjala Inc. Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:04:00 - [836] Originally by: The Armin wts: all my apocs. The Abaddon is the only bs ill use in fleet ever again ;) ...because...?
LC Sulla BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:08:00 - [837] Originally by: Gragnor I want to report a crime. I was just on Sisi and took on a Rohk, fitted with torpedoes at about 80km range. I was fitted with an XL SB plus 8 1400mm T1 arties with carbonised lead. I got WTFBBQPWNed, nothing new in that. The horror was watching my much vaunted leet alpha strike ARTY FAIL TO DO ANY DAMAGE GREATER THAN 80 on a single battery volley within OPTIMAL RANGE. As for tanking - yeah - that's really really cool - I was out of cap with 2 minutes. How the hell the devs are able to wade through all this crap I'll never know... How about telling us EXACTLY what you had in your mids and lows (as well as your gunnery skills). What was your optimal range and tracking? Was your oppenent too close or have too high a transveral? Did you have t2 shield hardners, t2 shield boost amp?? Did you have damage mods in your lows (I mean the right ones for arbies )... Were you equally matched in skill with your opponent or are you a noob with 2m sp while he/she has 30m sp. A loss in combat is not sudden proof that one ship type owns another.
Raste Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:10:00 - [838] Get rid of the Rokh range bonus. T2 snipers get range nerfed, and in the same motion Caldari get a range bonus on a sniping ship? Give me a break. Change the shield boost bonus to a damage bonus on the Mael. Shield boost is useless for fleet.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.22 17:40:00 - [839] How about just mixing all the Battleships up a bit: Caldari: Fine as is. Gallente: Dominix becomes the new Tier3 ship (with tier3 HPs), and the Hyperion goes SD-boat and becomes tier1 (with tier1 HPs). This would both give Gallente a cheap EW BS like the scorp, and make the exceptionally powerful Dominix really expensive. Minmatar: Typhoon gets one or two more missile slots (+25m¦ dronebay if only +1 missile), and the turret bonus is changed to a painter one (cheap tier1 EW BS). Maelstrom becomes, well, I don't know, but it needs to be powerful enough to justify the tier3 price tag. Amarr: Geddon is reworked into a large Arbitrator (cheap tier1 EW BS), and Abaddon stays as is, maybe with a bit more cap so it can tank AND gank at least for a short time. Nothing wrong with that on a 150+ mil ship imho. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.11.22 21:45:00 - [840] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Gallente: Dominix becomes the new Tier3 ship (with tier3 HPs), and the Hyperion goes SD-boat and becomes tier1 (with tier1 HPs). This would both give Gallente a cheap EW BS like the scorp, and make the exceptionally powerful Dominix really expensive. No, the dominix is the uglyest ship game, make that the lame-o EW boat, and leave the hyperion (best looking bs in game by miles) as a non-lame combat ship. Thnx. ---------------- Kali ships worth flying left: Harbinger, Rokh. Only 2 left tux, you can make it!

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