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How do we increase PvP in C5 and C6?

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corbexx GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1317	Posted - 2015.04.25 00:34:31 - [1] - Quote So I've had some one ask for me to look in to how we can try to increase pvp in the higher class wormholes and who was also worried that I was spending to much time sorting pve out for w space. Firstly I'm still of the opinion that better pve and increasing getting people in to space is the way to increase pvp. The lower class wormholes have all done better since the pve changes along with dual statics of C4. The biggest issue I see with pvp in C5 and C6 is that its a player driven issue, not mechanics. Atleast to me, the biggest issue is all the grouping up, which then leads to a vicious circle. Oh they teamed up, we wont fight them, their bound to have friends this time again. etc etc I've spoke to a couple people who are much better at player behaviour and theyall agree this is incrediby hard to change, if its even possible at all. What I'd like is suggestions on how we could maybe increase pvp in the higher class wormholes. Hidden fremen has already asked some people in his corp and he's sent me a list of some ideas, some admittingly controversial. I'll list them below and keep this updated as more people suggest ideas. Ideals from Hidden Fremen and Lazerhawks Rewarding PvP active corps (harder to evict). Some Incursion-esque home system bonus. Mass:spawn range when jumping wormholes kills small corp PvP tactics. True. Increases non-consensual PvP, but decreases consensual. Getting podded into k-space and not in your WH home makes people more risk-averse. Controversial. Give wormholes stargate treatment in that they appear on overview; no scanning needed. VERY controversial. Reducing the number of wormholes. This would obviously increase encounters between players. Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
Garr Khan Phoenicians 52	Posted - 2015.04.25 00:38:38 - [2] - Quote Wormhole space, but ESPECIALLY C5/C6 space needs more participation by major nullsec entities wishing to establish Wormhole groups; those are the guys who will really bring the pew without the jew (as we see with so many of the stagnant 'major WH corps' littering high-class wormholes these days).
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1177	Posted - 2015.04.25 00:45:48 - [3] - Quote corbexx wrote: Rewarding PvP active corps (harder to evict). Some Incursion-esque home system bonus. part of the problem is that people clump hard because they a) just want to win or b) don't want to get evicted Giving home system bonus would only increase the fortress mentality. If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1178	Posted - 2015.04.25 00:46:50 - [4] - Quote also lol asking lazerhawks for advice on anything other than batphoning If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
corbexx GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1317	Posted - 2015.04.25 00:50:22 - [5] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: also lol asking lazerhawks for advice on anything other than batphoning It was Hidden Fremen who came to me (well he spoke to Sugar who passed it on to me) saying it needed looking at, so I asked for suggestions. Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
Aderoth Anstian Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2015.04.25 00:58:18 - [6] - Quote I think that the difference between C1-C4 PvE tactics and C5/C6 PvE tactics are obvious. C1-C4 the optimal isk/hr is made by farming your static whereas with C5/C6 you farm your home hole sites to maximize escalations. Why does this matter? The process of securing a static wormhole in C1-C4s for PvE necessarily involves dealing with locals, scanning sigs, setting pickets on whs that cant't be closed, etc. C5-C6 PvE operations, on the other hand, are as safe as it gets once the static and wanderings/k162s have been crushed. Encourage static farming in C5/C6s problem solved.
GizzyBoy Aperture Harmonics K162 106	Posted - 2015.04.25 01:09:54 - [7] - Quote the null entities are already in wh's, at fanfest I herd nothing other than oh you live in wh's "I love my wh me and a friend pulled out xxx billion isk in 6 months" I bought my super/titans with it. null players are perfectly happy to repeatedly and relentlessly shoot red crosses until there are no more left or right up till the point some one disturbs them. Its done on alts, and its primarily an activity to fund them in other parts of the game, some people say "But at least there's some one there!" Well great, but they dont really live there the other 22 hours or so of the day. content wise ganking caps in a site which has no sub cap support is really pretty much like shooting fish in a barrel. If one looks at qex they can see it can really be done with as little as 10 chars, quite how you need a coalition and fleet of 10+ logi & 60+ t3's to do the same job I really dont know. Changing player behaviour is a hard one, probably the hardest aspect of the task your setting out to do. In some eyes some groups arn't considered pvp groups because they allegedly dont kill enough, Yet if there's no targets in there there statics or chains and rolling provides nothing but a barren logged off landscape, whose fault is that? Its become necessary to roam null now to provide additional content or access to other people doing things that I can poke with a stick, No single entity can rely on people being in there static or chain any more to gaurenty enough stuff is happening to keep there corp activity ticking over. Perhaps taking a few null exits from the c5's and giving them to the c6's might be in Order? I hate the Idea of wh generators, but what about something like you dump lots of blue books in a thing and it spawns a new random c6/c5 null wh, The more you dump in there the longer it lasts, "48 hour maximum time" and if its a sucky null, SUX2BEU
Turd Destroyer Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 2	Posted - 2015.04.25 01:18:09 - [8] - Quote Dual statics for high class space. Look at the boon it has been for c4 space.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 950	Posted - 2015.04.25 01:33:17 - [9] - Quote Aderoth Anstian wrote: I think that the difference between C1-C4 PvE tactics and C5/C6 PvE tactics are obvious and the prime reason why the PvP is so much different. C1-C4 the optimal isk/hr is made by farming your static whereas with C5/C6 you farm your home hole sites to maximize escalations. Why does this matter? The process of securing a static wormhole in C1-C4s for PvE necessarily involves dealing with locals, scanning sigs, setting pickets on whs that cant't be closed, etc. C5-C6 PvE operations, on the other hand, are as safe as it gets once the static and wanderings/k162s have been crushed. Encourage static farming in C5/C6s problem solved. If by encourage you mean to give an isk encentive for completing a site, then truly this will only work to encourage c5/c6 space to further increase corp/alliance size. It's the larger corps that are having difficulty finding good fights in wh space. Incentivising static farming and allowing wh corps to support even larger numbers will have the opposite effect than Hidden Freemen is looking for. Instead of 5 large wh entities that are too big for me to effectively engage, there will be be 5 way way large wh entities that are too big for me to effectively engage. WH mass constraints are what limits what we can do and what we can't do. You can't have an epic fight in wh space w/out batphoning, rage rolling and seeding. That's because you can only get so much through a wh before it collapses. Encouraging static farming isn't going to change that. Rolling back the mass/range thing will probably have a positive effect as it will allow folks to once again put a triage carrier on or through a wh against larger numbers. Though since the higgs rigs, the only cap I've seen rolling a wh has been Hidden Freemen himself in his nano moros (he had that thing gong over 320 km/sec - ok not that fast, but it was deffo faster than a moros should be allowed to go). I don't think 'more is better' is going to solve any pvp issues in wh space. The only more is better option is maybe creating c7 wh and putting some liberal mass limits on c7 to c7 connections so the guys that like to be in big wh corps and like be fights in wh space can have a place to go. I think then we would quickly sort out the large wh corps and see which ones really want to fight big and which ones just want to be 'to big to fail' Honestly, I'd love to follow that sort of wh drama. (no supers in c7 though - that would be obviously broken)
GizzyBoy Aperture Harmonics K162 106	Posted - 2015.04.25 01:34:43 - [10] - Quote Turd Destroyer wrote: Dual statics for high class space. Look at the boon it has been for c4 space. Had thought about this, what about 1 static as per normal, but also one random connection c5/6 - c1/6, but ls/null/hs to spawn as per normal.

JeRaadtHetNooit C0DE.. Shadow Politics 2	Posted - 2015.04.25 01:41:18 - [11] - Quote Aderoth Anstian wrote: Encourage static farming in C5/C6s problem solved. Remove capital escalation farming from home sites Get some other crap in return to make farming you static c5/c6 profitable I dislike the idea's you got so far
Jack Miton Isogen 5 4379	Posted - 2015.04.25 01:44:49 - [12] - Quote it's really easy. you take all the 300man groups, make them into 50-100 man groups and remove all their blues. There is no Bob. Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Tim Nering R3d Fire 48	Posted - 2015.04.25 02:15:43 - [13] - Quote i never realized this was a problem. i always did what the chain allowed. if its dead, lets jew it up, if its active lets try and fight stuff. if its too active maybe roll that part away. the best pvp part about high class wormholes to be is that i get a ton of nulls and i just use those to pvp in. i really dislike the blobs i gotta fight but whatever makes me better anyways. in wormholes i usually am ganking someone or arranging a fight with another corp. telling them what i got, and they telling me what they got. idk i love this. its refreshing. like you said, this is a total player behavior problem and i wouldnt try to fix it. wahh wahhhh wormholes are so dead there is no high class pvp wahhh wahhh. meanwhile that person maybe scans 10 wormholes a week. just go scan and find the action. i hate the whining omfg.... PvP active corps (harder to evict). Some Incursion-esque home system bonus. No! you cant control wormholes! that's the point! they are unpredictable and dangerous remember? i like the idea that my home system is trying to kill me and forcing me to adapt my fittings so i dont die. i get free links if i pvp? its just guna be exploited and farmed up with alts or something. wrong wrong wrong wrong. side note: during the very vague structure presentation that was very vague and vagueness. something was said about a structure that controls wormhole spawn rates? NO! you cant do that! wormholes are unpredictable and random, and sleepers are scary and spooky and all that. why can players control their ratting safety by reducing the number and crazed wormholers that come out of it?! spawn range when jumping wormholes kills small corp PvP tactics. True. Increases non-consensual PvP, but decreases consensual. no comment. everything has already been said about this. i dont care either way. sure would be nice to just jump the carrier back. podded into k-space and not in your WH home makes people more risk-averse. Controversial. a huge part of sieging tactics revolves around this but outside out that getting podded isnt the worst thing. if ur scanning this isnt an issue. but that is a big quality of life improvement. i dont hate it. wormholes stargate treatment in that they appear on overview; no scanning needed. VERY controversial. no. the number of wormholes. This would obviously increase encounters between players. back in the wormhole changes ccp said that increasing connections increases content.. is that not true anymore? i dont mind scanning at all. i like having lots of connections, gives me a lot of options. maybe c3s today, maybe marauder sites in the static, maybe pvp our neighbors, maybe roaming nullsec. idk. someone once told me that in order to get pvp sometimes u gotta force it. put a tower down in their system, shoot their structures, they CTA u go fight em, take ur tower down and gf m80s. and like i said before if you find a group u know well you can pvp them and set up a fight for the fun of you both. really i dont see this pvp problem. maybe im just slow. but i... i really dont see it. lazy ppl will be lazy and whine and then burnout and then quit.
Brain Eater Viziam Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.04.25 02:33:01 - [14] - Quote By not making it a renter empire run by a giant blob of people who pretend they aren't friends and share accounts.
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1280	Posted - 2015.04.25 03:22:34 - [15] - Quote If you are looking for concepts here are a few... It was suggested that the wormhole star gate treatment.. I would say no.. Except for frigate sized holes. Those might as well be shown on the sig screen as we hate probing them, and hate more using them. Least you could readily transit frigate holes without the need for a probe launcher theoretically. It's a odd idea that affects all space with visible frig holes. We need a way to swap clones in wspace. If I can swap my slave or virtu set clone for something else, that'd be great. The shattered need more uses. I'm at the point that maybe the shattered large holes should provide more statics into c5 and c6 space. I still rarely see them. They should be the primary farming targets for c5 and c6 space. The shattered wormholes need to matter more. I am almost tempted to say that a new material should be added to t3's which are only obtainable in shattered wormholes. Yes it could potentially redo t3 production, make them more rare as they require a material that comes out of one of 100 systems. The frig holes matter more for smaller industrialists. They need to matter more, and there needs to be more access. Give the players the ability to choose if they want two statics in their home system (or three statics in c2 and c4 space). Come up with something. Some structure or deployable that generates a second static for your group on regular intervals. I'd even give people a pve incentive and say that this device will generate more pve sites on a regular basis. Only works if the below is a possibility. We need a way to deal with people critting their holes. It's hard to eat the Bears if they crit their hole to the point a venture will collapse it. We have the ability to increase our mass. We should have the ability to reduce a groups total mass. Maybe make the heavy interdictor have a new bubble script that reduces the mass of everybody in its effective range (similar to how it reduces the mass of the hic). See a crit hole, scout says "there doing sites". Bring the heavy int with the script and your 20 t3's. Activate script. Everybody jumps through the hole with the effective size of a shuttle or pod. On the return. Heavy int does the same thing. If worried about the frigate sized wormholes, put a ship type cap on it. This is more of an ability idea than anything else. How to increase the type and variety of fights? Make it so that if someone doesn't fight, you can disable or despawn their sites. So now they can't farm either. We do that with the ess. Don't fight. We blow up your ess. Yaay!!!!
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1179	Posted - 2015.04.25 04:17:32 - [16] - Quote glad no one is holding back the dumb ideas itt if you want ideas of what NOT to do, then read this thread If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Sith1s Spectre Un.Reasonable Un.Bound 1336	Posted - 2015.04.25 04:19:58 - [17] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: it's really easy. you take all the 300man groups, make them into 50-100 man groups and remove all their blues. This. I mean what's the point in even committing a significant fleet to fight one of them when there's almost a certainty that they have one or two other groups lined up to come dunk you. Tie that in with all the farming holes (because it's currently the most efficient way to make isk in WH space in the high end holes) and you have your answer of why it is why it is. Resident forum troll and fashion consultant
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 635	Posted - 2015.04.25 05:36:10 - [18] - Quote - change site-spawning/escalation mechanics to encourage PvEing outside of the hole you live, should include farms and expos - allow clone-swapping in the hole - fix the nightmare of corp roles, ship security and living out of POS (=> enables more recruiting, influx of people of who currently held back by it) btw all five of those suggestions listed by OP are absolutely **** and would make the problem even worse, make sure sugar knows that, I wish we had a WH CSM to care of this crap... W-Space Realtor
Jack Miton Isogen 5 4385	Posted - 2015.04.25 05:55:29 - [19] - Quote Also, GET FKED making wh appear on overview without scanning. Seriously, GET FKED. There is no Bob. Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1180	Posted - 2015.04.25 06:04:29 - [20] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Also, GET FKED making wh appear on overview without scanning. Seriously, GET FKED. tell me how you really feel If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

calaretu Honestly We didnt know Unsettled. 290	Posted - 2015.04.25 07:10:02 - [21] - Quote Capital escalation in home system need a heavy nerf. A very heavy nerf. Its the sole reason why c5/6 space is stagnant. The reason dual static is so successful for c4 is because we need them to make isk. In a c5/6 you dont need your chains to make isk. In lower classes people have most chains open all the time which basicly leads to more people finding eachother and interacting. So to remove the blue loot from the escalation waves and increase the blue loot in the 2nd+ wave in anoms (and make them harder so you cant solo marauder c5/6 anoms) ~Bringer of happiness http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ .ORLY is recruiting
Shilalasar Dead Sky Inc. 151	Posted - 2015.04.25 07:10:51 - [22] - Quote People not being riskaverse ****heads and playing the game for fun and thrills would be the simple solution, but well... The escalationsystem doesn-¦t help at all where the best status of your system is "locked down" with all possile doors closed and not even a door back home needed. And crit is pretty much the same as closed unless you are able to pull a suitcase off. But I really think the big problem is in shipbalancing: dreads with even just one or two lokis can blab anything and armor T3s are just so much better than anything else and with the ewarboni esp on scram and webrange makes them even stonger against most doctrines. Add to that the static nature of wormholefights and maybe triagecarrers and you get what we have now. Armor being better than shields in larger scales outside of a pulsar, shieldbuffer being a joke against dreads and the drawback of slowness not mattering with lots of bonused ewar and static battlegrounds also isn-¦t helpful. If dreads had a harder time hitting smaller stuff, maybe even be it via special fittingmods, and battleships with their high mass were able to beat T3s with lower numbers (I-¦m thinking about things like the NM, Vindi or Bhaal, who on paper have good boni to combat cruisers). You can fit 30+ cruisers through most holes, but not 30+ BS. Ofc this would create problems with BS <> all other ships in k-space where mass doesn-¦t matter. But if you had some doctrines, maybe other classes of BS, who execll at fighting the ani-cruiser BS-fleets there wouldn-¦t be a win-it -all fleetcomp but counters for everything. Unless you just bring 2 fleets to fight against one in your homesystem, but there is no way to prevent that. Also eve has more than 3 types of ships so it would not be that easy.
Newt BlackCompany BlackCompany Personal Corp 39	Posted - 2015.04.25 07:15:51 - [23] - Quote What about an anchorable module that would add an extra static to your hole? Maybe you can anchor 2-3 of these modules in your home to increase connections? Maybe even let people select the type of static created? Not HS/LS tho. Make it expensive and destructible, so they don't litter WH space.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1181	Posted - 2015.04.25 07:17:36 - [24] - Quote WH generation modules the dream~ If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Bleedingthrough Project AIice 164	Posted - 2015.04.25 07:46:45 - [25] - Quote It is the same old story that has been told in so many different ways already and it boils down to: capital escalations. For me they are **** because they encourage a playstyle I dislike and think is harmful for PvP. Eve is a social game and you donGÇÖt need to be a genius to figure out that a mechanic that encourages isolating yourselves from the rest of eve for 4 consecutive nights might not be a good thing. Take a look at the groups that moved into lower class WHs for exactly this reason. Generating income from statics is actually fun and creates lots of content. I am all for getting rid of capital escalation mechanics and slightly buff full clears. This could potentially incentivize running statics sites and statics are a more balanced battlefield than in someoneGÇÖs home fortress. Also the spawn distance mechanic change has been a mediocre choice by CCP. It does make rolling more frustrating while not creating much meaningful content. More importantly it makes it very difficult to fight outnumbered. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5305080#post5305080
Ab'del Abu Atlantis Ascendant 266	Posted - 2015.04.25 08:10:37 - [26] - Quote corbexx wrote: Getting podded into k-space and not in your WH home makes people more risk-averse. Controversial. Imho this is an important issue. I think many people would engage more readily if they didn't end up in k-space, but in their own POS. As a compromise, people who choose to set their medical clone to their POS could end up in a sort of stasis (for say half an hour or so) after being podded to balance home advantage ... A clone swapping POS mod would be pretty awesome too btw :> Turd Destroyer wrote: Dual statics for high class space. Look at the boon it has been for c4 space. This. Jack Miton wrote: it's really easy. you take all the 300man groups, make them into 50-100 man groups and remove all their blues. And this.
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 2000	Posted - 2015.04.25 08:17:58 - [27] - Quote Ab'del Abu wrote: As a compromise, people who choose to set their medical clone to their POS could end up in a sort of stasis (for say half an hour or so) after being podded to balance home advantage ... This sounds like an excellent way for CCP to get people to log out of their game. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Ab'del Abu Atlantis Ascendant 266	Posted - 2015.04.25 08:25:47 - [28] - Quote Zappity wrote: Ab'del Abu wrote: As a compromise, people who choose to set their medical clone to their POS could end up in a sort of stasis (for say half an hour or so) after being podded to balance home advantage ... This sounds like an excellent way for CCP to get people to log out of their game. Yipp :> In some cases I'd rather log out and/or wait half an hour than get myself back into system. Wouldn't be surprised if other people felt the same.
Ab'del Abu Atlantis Ascendant 266	Posted - 2015.04.25 08:37:28 - [29] - Quote Some more food for thought: On average, less than 5% of all active characters are in w-space, yet w-space makes up for a third of all systems in EVE. Maybe Anokis is too big. An activity index for systems could be used in order to increase the probability of active holes to connect with each other. I'm sure Bob would want that
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 1167	Posted - 2015.04.25 09:09:06 - [30] - Quote I'm also for dual statics, every wormhole should have them to be honest. Remove capital escalations and adjust regular site ISK so it's at least profitable and worth running in the shiny ships that it would require. Lower class space income should also be boosted, tried a few C2 sites and 12m/site is pretty awful considering the difficulty. Make data and relic cans (not talocans) worth something again.

Ab'del Abu Atlantis Ascendant 266	Posted - 2015.04.25 09:21:11 - [31] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: Remove capital escalations and adjust regular site ISK so it's at least profitable and worth running in the shiny ships that it would require. Remove capital escalations and see where all the people go: a) C4s or C2s with C5/C6 statics. b) Null Don't think this helps C5/C6 pvp.
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 45	Posted - 2015.04.25 09:22:05 - [32] - Quote corbexx wrote: Firstly I'm still of the opinion that better pve and increasing getting people in to space is the way to increase pvp. A good first step for improving pve, would be to un-do most of fozzie's changes, such as; Mass spawn range (chain collapsing is more time consuming) Shattered WH's (lets be honest, they contribute nothing, besides being a large c5/c6 anom sink) Frigate WH's (most people think like this: we gonna bear today? nope frig wh. oh cya tomorow then) It would make bearing even safer, so bringing back npc api statistics would balance it all out. But that is a carrybear's point of view, and would only increase the number of bears/targets/people who hunt those, and not increase actual pvp. *~lvl 60 paladin~*
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 47	Posted - 2015.04.25 09:35:37 - [33] - Quote corbexx wrote: 1.Rewarding PvP active corps (harder to evict). Some Incursion-esque home system bonus. 2. Mass:spawn range when jumping wormholes kills small corp PvP tactics. True. Increases non-consensual PvP, but decreases consensual. 3. Getting podded into k-space and not in your WH home makes people more risk-averse. Controversial. 4. Give wormholes stargate treatment in that they appear on overview; no scanning needed. VERY controversial. 5. Reducing the number of wormholes. This would obviously increase encounters between players. 1. No. Too easily exploited. 2. Yes, all fozzie changes are bad. 3. No. It would just mean that the gang you are fighting can reship and come back aka favors the 'blob' ? 4. Isn't the whole point of wh's to scan? Especially with how easy scanning is today, people who cant even manage that, probably don't belong in wh's. 5. No. Just no. Way to many reasons to state. *~lvl 60 paladin~*
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 1167	Posted - 2015.04.25 09:39:57 - [34] - Quote Ab'del Abu wrote: Tsukino Stareine wrote: Remove capital escalations and adjust regular site ISK so it's at least profitable and worth running in the shiny ships that it would require. Remove capital escalations and see where all the people go: a) C4s or C2s with C5/C6 statics. b) Null Don't think this helps C5/C6 pvp. Again, your powers of selective reading never cease to surprise me.
Ab'del Abu Atlantis Ascendant 266	Posted - 2015.04.25 09:58:51 - [35] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: Again, your powers of selective reading never cease to surprise me. LOL get that. The remainder of your above post is irrelevant to improving C5/C6. Tsukino Stareine wrote: I'm also for dual statics, every wormhole should have them to be honest. I already commented on that. Tsukino Stareine wrote: Lower class space income should also be boosted, tried a few C2 sites and 12m/site is pretty awful considering the difficulty. Wut? How does this help C5/C6 pvp? Tsukino Stareine wrote: Make data and relic cans (not talocans) worth something again. This is in no way an incentive to live and pvp in high class holes. People don't move to C5s or C6s for instrumental core sites either. Pretty much the same thing ... Now pls stop shitposting kthxbai
Aivo Dresden Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 432	Posted - 2015.04.25 10:38:21 - [36] - Quote corbexx wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: also lol asking lazerhawks for advice on anything other than batphoning It was Hidden Fremen who came to me (well he spoke to Sugar who passed it on to me) saying it needed looking at, so I asked for suggestions. That's comedy considering they are the first to gang up and evict people with overwhelming numbers. What it needs is the blue donut to disappear. If you clowns would shoot each other, you'd have plenty of PvP opportunities.
calaretu Honestly We didnt know Unsettled. 292	Posted - 2015.04.25 11:06:28 - [37] - Quote Also more people does not equal more pvp as long as the fundamental mechanic for where they live is to isolate themself. As shown by this chart http://i.imgur.com/HHnqDlI.png?1 c5 and c6 space has no shortage of active characters. They just dont interact with eachother. Until full clear brings more isk than consecutive escalation c5/6 will remain the dead zone it currently is and groups will either move down to c4 (like so many have started to do) or out to null. Amd c5/6 will fill up with nullsec farmers who use it to fund nullsec pvp and nothing else ~Bringer of happiness http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ .ORLY is recruiting
Hidden Fremen Lazerhawks 565	Posted - 2015.04.25 12:23:00 - [38] - Quote Aivo Dresden wrote: corbexx wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: also lol asking lazerhawks for advice on anything other than batphoning It was Hidden Fremen who came to me (well he spoke to Sugar who passed it on to me) saying it needed looking at, so I asked for suggestions. That's comedy considering they are the first to gang up and evict people with overwhelming numbers. What it needs is the blue donut to disappear. If you clowns would shoot each other, you'd have plenty of PvP opportunities. Lol...
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 971	Posted - 2015.04.25 12:24:59 - [39] - Quote I'd just love a bandaid implant that sets your clone's respawn location to a POS facility. Don't care if I can't plug in anyhitng besides that imp, it would just safe so much hazzle.
Aivo Dresden Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 435	Posted - 2015.04.25 12:43:35 - [40] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: Lol... Don't know what you're complaining about. You fly together with HKC (and QEX) all the time and then complain there's nothing to shoot and PvP is stagnant. It's pretty straight forward, the more people you add on your buddies list, the less people there are on your enemies list. How about you shoot those buddies instead of holding each others hands and singing Kumbaya around the campfire every other day?

Hidden Fremen Lazerhawks 565	Posted - 2015.04.25 12:59:55 - [41] - Quote Aivo Dresden wrote: Hidden Fremen wrote: Lol... You could have easily taken on TDSIN on your own. Instead you call in the whole gang. This is how I know you're just another pitchforker. Who did we bring to evict TDSIN, exactly? It's pure LZHX in here. Bombers Bar came to third-party harass because it was being streamed, but this is a Lazerhawks only operation. Do some research, check your facts before you spout ignorance. Edit 1: I really should stay off these forums... Unsubscribing. Edit 2: Since you prob cbf to, here's a br: http://kb.lazerhawks.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=22342
Aivo Dresden Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 435	Posted - 2015.04.25 13:10:44 - [42] - Quote I must have been dreaming then when I saw a combined LZHX and HKC fleet clean house the day before and mop up TDSIN. Oh no, I wasn't. I'm sure you'll have some explanation here too but that coincidence though; damn that coincidence.
Credacom Aperture Harmonics K162 34	Posted - 2015.04.25 13:20:35 - [43] - Quote What you mean not every player in WH space wants to play the game the way the nerd active pvpers want? I read this OP as, the WHcfc needs more targets before they might actually have to fight eachother. Once again Jack is right. Remove farmable/repeatable cap esc sites, reduce their home Isk value by a lot. Get people in their chains by whatever means possible, but maybe encourage rolling statics for continued pve just like lower classes. This is the simplest and possibly the most effective way to get people to interact more in high-end WH space. It won't stop the WHcfc (player behavior). In fact, the WHcfc is quickly working themselfs out of content faster and faster. But carry on guys, enjoy it while it lasts. Your doing a great job at whatever the fkuc you are trying to do.
Ozz Burtus Anomalous Existence Low-Class 5	Posted - 2015.04.25 14:00:07 - [44] - Quote corbexx wrote: Rewarding PvP active corps (harder to evict). Some Incursion-esque home system bonus. Mass:spawn range when jumping wormholes kills small corp PvP tactics. True. Increases non-consensual PvP, but decreases consensual. Getting podded into k-space and not in your WH home makes people more risk-averse. Controversial. Give wormholes stargate treatment in that they appear on overview; no scanning needed. VERY controversial. Reducing the number of wormholes. This would obviously increase encounters between players. TL; DR? Turn WH space slowly into NS without local. No, thank you; all of the above are poor suggestions (by reducing the number of WHs I you mean reduce the number of WH star-systems!?!). +1 to the notion of forcing the isk grinders into their chain via reducing high-class isk and slightly increasing low-class isk. +1 to dealing with full hole-control with crit holes. Adding an extra static to C5 / C6 will just give them another hole to crit and won't be particularly effective I suspect, plus too much connectivity can be a bad thing: a system in swiss-cheese mode makes people very risk averse. MAYBE some kind of life-reduction after a hole has gone crit? ~ half an hour? After which it collapses and the new static spawns in whatever the host system was. This means more change in the WH connections in C5/C6 space but the same number of connections, increasing the chance of an incoming connection whilst you're running your cap escalation and a better chance that the incoming connection will be from an active system. Scary. IMHO it would be great to get rid of caps in WH space and bring back Battleships, but I don't fly caps so I'm biased :D.
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1280	Posted - 2015.04.25 14:35:39 - [45] - Quote I'm actually going to attempt some semblance of a constructive argument. Going after the relationships people have isn't the solution. People will blue and red each other. That happens everywhere. That can't be stopped. The only thing that can be done is to incentivize one behavior over another. There are only three things people fight about in wspace. Planets, attitude, and possible blingy stuff in a pos. that's pretty much it. The space in wspace isn't actually worth anything. Now making actual wspace have a value is one thing, getting the fight is another. The issue tends to be roaming and travel. Most of us roam by rolling the hole, proving 4 to 5 down, then rolling it again. But maybe creating a thunderdome using shattered space is needed. I would even go as far as to say as to link them all together. Find a shattered hole. That shattered links to other shattered holes, which link to other shattered holes. So basically you find one shattered. You find them all. You create the mega wspace highway there. Movements easier, there is a definitive roaming area other than kspace. You need to make shattered space worth the travel. Having a shattered highway would help. Yaay!!!!
Hidden Fremen Lazerhawks 565	Posted - 2015.04.25 15:23:54 - [46] - Quote Anyway, those aren't my ideas; just random ideas that were proposed in corp.
Michael1995 Lazerhawks 179	Posted - 2015.04.25 15:33:10 - [47] - Quote Aivo Dresden wrote: I'm sure you'll have some explanation here too but that coincidence though; damn that coincidence. Do you think TDSIN only had 20~ caps in their home? One does not simply buy their way into Goonswarm.
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 159	Posted - 2015.04.25 15:53:31 - [48] - Quote I lol at the lack of pvp in c5 and c6 space. They are harvesting what they have sown. It started when they evicted people that fight . Then they started to blob 3 to 1 ... . And now there is no one left to fight . About the ideas: Quote: Rewarding PvP active corps (harder to evict). Some Incursion-esque home system bonus. Harder to evict, maybe a good idea but only implentable with the new structures probably. Mass : spawn range was a bad idea and still is, though most of us are used to it now, let it stay. Clone jumping to wormholes is bad idea, clone swapping to get into pvp clones is a good one. Quote: Give wormholes stargate treatment in that they appear on overview; no scanning needed. NEVER, stop trying to make it null sec and learn how to scan! Quote: Reducing the number of wormholes. This would obviously increase encounters between players. Not sure about this one, it would increase the number off connections wich can lead to more interaction. But is that not part of the problem now? It is to easy to get in more reinforcements to blob(to get in 3 or more alliances), maybe that should be lowered? Then it would be harder to get reinforcements in. Combine that with some less income from home sites. Then people will have a need to spread out more and bigg grop would still dominate but would do that in a smaller area. Getting more isk in the static then home system could be an answer but how long will that last? Instead of 1 300 people alliance we will have 3 100 people alliances who are so buddy buddy they will blob everything else. Nothing will have changed. But do not kill of the need to use caps in pve sites, it takes away a LOT of capitals fight. And please no structure that add statics with a specific static that would be so easy to game for the bigg alliances that it would escalte into a much worse situation. WH generation module have only one way to ballance them, NOT DOING THEM. The only thing i miss in c4-c1 space is the need to have people with you to do pve sites. In c5/c6 that was absolutly necesairy. In c4-c1 you can do them alone. This does not promote playing with people since the more people pve with you in a c4-c1 site the less you earn. You got to know each other. Only PVP is in group in c4-c1 space. A shattered highway might be a good idea, though the question is won't that be a bit like the c5 high way, empty and void of anything active? No local in null sec would fix everything!
Michael1995 Lazerhawks 180	Posted - 2015.04.25 16:21:39 - [49] - Quote unimatrix0030 wrote: Then they started to blob 3 to 1 ... . And now there is no one left to fight . So I think I'm oblivious to this, but do you have any examples of the "WHCFC" blobbing someone that was actually looking to fight? I know in Lazerhawks we don't respond to batphones when it's against dudes that are looking to fight. Example: SSC phoning us to fight HK. Us: lolno I know we form up together to gank site runners nearly on a weekly basis, but I've never considered ganking a site running fleet as a fight or pvp, unless the people we're ganking are actually competent and turn it around. As for us never fighting each other; Our last interaction with SSC - their wormhole was crit so no fight, otherwise I'm sure they would've brought it. The time before that. Our last fight with HK, the time before that. As far as I'm aware anyway. I'll be sure to ask for arranged cruiser fights or something when there isn't enough on either side for a giga T3 brawl. I'm sure that will help prove we're all perma blue to each other. Oh and as for bad ideas, how about a roaming C5/C6 connection that spawns in someone's home and has a high chance of leading to someone else's home. Play with the mass limits if you like. Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks Citizens, E X P L O S I O N, Sleeper Social Club, Isogen 5, Sky Fighters. Join up for swag drake ganks with guardian fleets and chain rolling C1s for more dank drake ganks!
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1184	Posted - 2015.04.25 16:23:12 - [50] - Quote Michael1995 wrote: Aivo Dresden wrote: I'm sure you'll have some explanation here too but that coincidence though; damn that coincidence. Do you think TDSIN only had 20~ caps in their home? off the mark friendo)) the point is you didn't do it solo Michael1995 wrote: Example: SSC phoning us to fight HK. Us: lolno AHAHAHA THIS IS THE EXAMPLE YOU CHOOSE? ARE YOU SERIOUS? IS THIS REAL? jesus **** you're dumb If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Michael1995 Lazerhawks 180	Posted - 2015.04.25 16:29:35 - [51] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: AHAHAHA THIS IS THE EXAMPLE YOU CHOOSE? ARE YOU SERIOUS? IS THIS REAL? jesus **** you're dumb Since I'm so bad can you provide some better examples of the WHCFC 3v1ing dudes that were looking for a fight, and not just some null alt alliance running homesites? Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks Citizens, E X P L O S I O N, Sleeper Social Club, Isogen 5, Sky Fighters. Join up for swag drake ganks with guardian fleets and chain rolling C1s for more dank drake ganks!
Jay Joringer 13. Enigma Project 435	Posted - 2015.04.25 16:30:58 - [52] - Quote I honestly cannot believe that no one has mentioned some kind of device or structure to stabilize Wormholes yet. http://smug-bastard.blogspot.co.uk
Brain Eater Viziam Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2015.04.25 16:32:07 - [53] - Quote I hope fremen was trolling on that bat phoning comment. This reminds me of goons and nc complaining that Null sec was boring because of CCP, not their giant blue doughnut renter empire.
Brain Eater Viziam Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2015.04.25 16:51:49 - [54] - Quote Quote: As for us never fighting each other; Our last interaction with SSC - their wormhole was crit so no fight, otherwise I'm sure they would've brought it. The time before that. Our last fight with HK, the time before that. As far as I'm aware anyway. How many bear and renter holes do you guys have? Big difference between sparring and fighting. So in essence you "dont gang up on people who bring fights" but you guys are the biggest bears in WH. How many cap pilots do your organizations buy and seed constantly? If you guys hate care bears so much you should have fought long ago. Not to mention your blatant account sharing with QEX so while operations often times "appear" to be only one specific corp it is in reality full time zone coverage via account sharing. Quote: I honestly cannot believe that no one has mentioned some kind of device or structure to stabilize Wormholes yet This would ruin wormholes more than the 3 amigos.
Michael1995 Lazerhawks 180	Posted - 2015.04.25 17:00:12 - [55] - Quote Brain Eater wrote: How many bear and renter holes do you guys have? Big difference between sparring and fighting. So in essence you "dont gang up on people who bring fights" but you guys are the biggest bears in WH. How many cap pilots do your organizations buy and seed constantly? If you guys hate care bears so much you should have fought long ago. Not to mention your blatant account sharing with QEX so while operations often times "appear" to be only one specific corp it is in reality full time zone coverage via account sharing. We rent out every occupied C6 in W-Space atm. We're at like 40% of all occupied C5s. We have at times invited SSC and HK into our home to farm sites with 100+ people in fleet so we're 100% safe. Did you know account sharing is against the EULA? Are you a spokesperson for Viziam? If so, could I interest you in some standings with the WHCFC? Since you're such a swanky poster I'll give you a discount; 8b/month. Hidden Fremen wrote: I really should stay off these forums... Unsubscribing. The real troll in this thread. GÖÑ Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks Citizens, E X P L O S I O N, Sleeper Social Club, Isogen 5, Sky Fighters. Join up for swag drake ganks with guardian fleets and chain rolling C1s for more dank drake ganks!
Help They GotMyMoney Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.04.25 17:12:26 - [56] - Quote Michael1995 wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: AHAHAHA THIS IS THE EXAMPLE YOU CHOOSE? ARE YOU SERIOUS? IS THIS REAL? jesus **** you're dumb Since I'm so bad can you provide some better examples of the WHCFC 3v1ing dudes that were looking for a fight, and not just some null alt alliance running homesites? How about the time u failed to take polaris with 2 times the numbers and 3 separate entities? Post with you're main.
Michael1995 Lazerhawks 180	Posted - 2015.04.25 17:15:51 - [57] - Quote Michael1995 wrote: 3v1ing dudes that were looking for a *fight* Help They GotMyMoney wrote: polaris My salad sides just imploded, nice troll m8. Judging by your name you could do with some isk help, could I interest you in some WHCFC standings? I'll give you a special dealio! Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks Citizens, E X P L O S I O N, Sleeper Social Club, Isogen 5, Sky Fighters. Join up for swag drake ganks with guardian fleets and chain rolling C1s for more dank drake ganks!
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1282	Posted - 2015.04.25 17:37:26 - [58] - Quote unimatrix0030 wrote: I ran on the c5 highway recently (About 3 days ago). It was fun but it was also pretty much dead with just POS's up. Shattered has no issue regarding pos's, but in order for that to foster fights, there has to be something valuable to get in shattered, and they all need to be interconnected and capable of supporting 5 man fleets to 40 man fleets, caps included. To do that, there has to be unique items in shattered space to obtain (to make people bring such huge armies in). Yes that means rare mods that come from officers that spawn at the end of cap escallations in Shattered Space (so yea, you want it, your bringing in a bunch of caps to do it). Means rare items or possible new equipment to be built from the items that can only be obtained in shattered space. Such as New Subsystems that can be found and created only by items dropped in shattered space, or even a new T3 rig or something like that. I'm a little surprised they didn't just throw all the D3 destroyer stuff into the shattered wormholes (slower distribution). I suppose they could do so now but that'd be a different direction. Incentive the need for going into shattered space, and interconnect shatters together to get people commiting fleets to either run sites in there, or get into fights in there, or roam through it. Just some thoughts I had. Shattered space could be a viable route to drive wspace conflicts. Yaay!!!!
Lyron-Baktos Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 472	Posted - 2015.04.25 18:00:26 - [59] - Quote Too may wormholes. This was mentioned when Fozzy added the shattered holes which made it worse Also, sites need to spawn faster. can't find a c3 with sites to save my life
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1283	Posted - 2015.04.25 18:11:42 - [60] - Quote Lyron-Baktos wrote: Too may wormholes. This was mentioned when Fozzy added the shattered holes which made it worse Also, sites need to spawn faster. can't find a c3 with sites to save my life The issue (in that case) is inter-connectivity. They'll have to review the method of routing people to make it function better. Shattered holes haven't made much of a difference atm. I believe they should but they have to be turned into something more than just a random curiosity. If they have had some-type of impact, I haven't seen it (doesn't mean they haven't, I just have not noticed it). Yaay!!!!

Tim Nering R3d Fire 48	Posted - 2015.04.25 18:15:23 - [61] - Quote yeah i kind of agree. if the solution is pve, buff shattereds. i guess the problem is wormholer vs wormholer pvp and thats hard to get sometimes. a lot of it is that my neighbors are Russian and im US tz. but i honestly dont have a problem with life as it is now. if i can fight my neighbors great, and usually i can get an arranged fight if they are awake. but im perfectly content fighting 4 v 30 in nullsec. gank an ishtar, they CTA, pick off click approaching tackle, "oh look and out of position cruiser", leave before the drop caps and camp you in. then roam out of another one of my nulls. that to me is the beauty of pvp in wormholes. the fact that i dont have the same people everyday. i can just scan and magically appear all over new eden pvping. and then magically disappear when it gets too hot im getting pvp, my pve covers the cost. im happy.
Siginek BAND of MAGNUS THE R0NIN 13	Posted - 2015.04.25 19:01:08 - [62] - Quote Every third post there is same - "nerf home system income and force ppl farm static" - ... from my PoV this is no help at all ... it will for sure force ppl to go out from safety of their PoS FF, but in the end you still have PvE fleet dropped by PvP fleet and thats not pvp for neither of both sites "fighting", its just slaughter of farmers ... not to mention that most WH entites has other sources of income than farming their home system ... lets look at system HK are using now as example of how removing isk from WH systems wont work ... capital alts in many different almost dead C5/C6 systems farming while nothing is going on and when something happens they just relog to main chars ... you cant effectively reduce isk income from single WH to hurt this system because there is only few toons in each of theese systems so each player using this system has ISK share big enough to live with ... if you would want to reduce isk there so much it would actually hurt them you would have to go so low that even farming them as static hole wouldnt be worth ... and even if you somehow managed to remove this type of farming you still have incursions, null sec ratting and as last case there are missions ... So ... biggest problem i observed to this topic is simple ... too many WH systems with too few ppl living in them ... For example ... in better days we open up 10 - 15 different C5 wormholes and every single one of them is dead or almost dead (1 active FF of farming alt corp) ... i actually dont remember when we rolled into living C5 or found one in chain last time, but im not here all day long ... With 500+ C5 WH and amount of players playing this game u cant fill them even half, so how to solve this problem? Simplest way would be removing some of those WH, but how would you chose which has to go? and how would ppl farming them react? This would be possibility, but its not optimal ... I think best way to "bring life back" to high WH class systems would be to create lucrative systems for ppl to live in and fight for which would give groups who seek pvp some kind of direction where to find it, because right now it pretty much doesnt matter if you roll C5 or C6 because most of them are empty anyway ... So here is my bad idea of how to accomplish this: 1) Set limit of active force fields in C5 systems - this would force large entities to move into C6 system where they will be easier to find and fight ... this option would be effective alone, but it might be considered too forceful 2) Create new structure buildable only in C6 WH systems - structure would require long time to be onlined and would be limited to 1 per system. My idea of structures: A) Polarizer manufacturing array - structure that allows players to build ship polarizers - temporar modules that could be fitted ship and would work basically like drugs to characters, but would be bound to ship and not to character - this would require new ship slot ... polarizers would be made from sleeper data libraries and blueprints for them would be dropped only from shattered wormholes B) Sleeper library decoder - temporary (1week) boosts all atributes of character by 1/3/5 for exchange for sleeper data libraries (50M for +1, 200M for +3 and 500M for +5) - this couldnt be created as item, so character would need to be present and decoder in order to get boosts, there would be limited amount of toons boosted at saem time per single of theese structures so nobody could make living of this C) Wormhole effect creator - structure with long reaload time that would allow players to put chosen wormhole effect into chosen known space system/region/constallation ... it would be "fuelled" by sleepr data libraries same as 2 before this ADD: all theese ideas are probably too crazy or stupdi or whatever specially with 113 C6 wh systems, so it might be better to create new C7 systems which would be really rare (20 maybe) As to the other posts there ... multiple statics would definitelly be good for C5/C6 - oen for random C1 to C4 system and one to random C5/C6 system Mass based spawn range ... this idea from fozzie could create nice content IF there would be anyone living in WH you roll into ... right now its only pain in the ass that wastes time you could use to roll into living WH system TL:DR: Force larger active groups to live in C6 systems where they are easier to be found by groups looking pvp or make it generalyl easier to find someone
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 972	Posted - 2015.04.25 19:04:13 - [63] - Quote Phoenix Jones wrote: unimatrix0030 wrote: I ran on the c5 highway recently (About 3 days ago). It was fun but it was also pretty much dead with just POS's up. Shattered has no issue regarding pos's, but in order for that to foster fights, there has to be something valuable to get in shattered, and they all need to be interconnected and capable of supporting 5 man fleets to 40 man fleets, caps included. To do that, there has to be unique items in shattered space to obtain (to make people bring such huge armies in). Yes that means rare mods that come from officers that spawn at the end of cap escallations in Shattered Space (so yea, you want it, your bringing in a bunch of caps to do it). Means rare items or possible new equipment to be built from the items that can only be obtained in shattered space. Such as New Subsystems that can be found and created only by items dropped in shattered space, or even a new T3 rig or something like that. I'm a little surprised they didn't just throw all the D3 destroyer stuff into the shattered wormholes (slower distribution). I suppose they could do so now but that'd be a different direction. Incentive the need for going into shattered space, and interconnect shatters together to get people commiting fleets to either run sites in there, or get into fights in there, or roam through it. Just some thoughts I had. Shattered space could be a viable route to drive wspace conflicts. It would be sweet as dunno what if there were T3 modules. Better than T1, weaker than T2, but you could build them off components you build anyways for T3s.
Grorious Reader Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.04.25 20:12:09 - [64] - Quote corbexx wrote: Getting podded into k-space and not in your WH home makes people more risk-averse. Controversial. This is the only one of those ideas I'd support. This would be a great opportunity to make use of the new ideas surrounding structures. If you could anchor "clone vats" in a system and then manufacture empty clones for it to use, you'd have a high value target that would draw attackers, and a means by which players wanting to put roots in a system could remove one of the more annoying bits of WH PvP. Whether the manufacture of an item is required or not, there needs to be some resource limiter on the structure's use so that a successful attacker can exhaust the structure's functionality if they're really kicking butt. And just to be clear, I'm not suggesting you be able to use this for clone jumping between wormholes or from known to w-space. You should only spawn at this structure if you're podded in the same system. I think PvP in lower class wormholes is fine as it is. I live in one and we get plenty of interlopers looking for PvP. If you want to increase C5-C6 PvP then you need to increase the frequency with which wandering holes connect them to highly populated areas of k-space (people can't pvp in a system they can't get to). There also has to be content in there for players with lower SP to do. It's just a fact that a higher bar for entry means fewer people will enter. CCP needs to take off whatever blinder it is that's making them obsess about PvP metrics and realize that more enticing PvE outside hi-sec will do more to drive PvP than anything else they could do. The most detrimental thing for PvP in eve is the fact that most of space is abandoned. This isn't because there are too many systems. It's because too many players disagree with CCP about what is rewarding enough to risk the loss of ship and pod. If CCP just wants to make a PvP arena game where the only goal is exploding ships, then what's the point of having thousands of systems and a sandbox setting? Just throw everyone in one big system with 0.0 sec and you'll push the stupid "how many ships exploded" metric off the charts.
Cataca Aspiring Nomads 0	Posted - 2015.04.25 20:15:30 - [65] - Quote Probably not the most popular solution, but decrease local spawnrate of combat anomalies by 50-60%, add 10-30 new shattered wormholes c5-6 and increase the chance of statics to lead to them. Let the anomalies that now dont spawn in the local sites spawn there. Maybe increase site payout to somewhat reward "farm as fast as you can before hostiles show up" in shattereds. That said, i dont really know what the hell i am talking about.
O'nira 13. Enigma Project 57	Posted - 2015.04.25 21:42:55 - [66] - Quote remove half of all c5 wormholes or more but honestly ccp can't do much about this without breaking the sandbox, this comes mostly down to the players.
Tim Nering R3d Fire 48	Posted - 2015.04.25 23:28:42 - [67] - Quote while on the topic of player behavior lets not forget how everyone acts in this game. bringing as many ppl as they can because they want to win. in wormholes the arranged fights are fun but everything else are more or less ganks. someone is capital running, marauder running, c3 tenguing, gank em and leave. the gankers are not looking for a fight and the gankee insnt looking for a fight. dont not matter where you pve and gank, that isnt a fight....its a gank. wormholes are a very good place to pve and hence ganks galore. i just settled for the blobs in nullsec roaming for pvp. they form up a zillion people and just make sure you have enough frigate clearing ships in your gang... and get to work. and then of course just fight until you lose ur ship and get podded because ur prob camped in.
NoobMan Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 107	Posted - 2015.04.26 04:35:16 - [68] - Quote Tim Nering wrote: while on the topic of player behavior lets not forget how everyone acts in this game. bringing as many ppl as they can because they want to win. in wormholes the arranged fights are fun but everything else are more or less ganks. someone is capital running, marauder running, c3 tenguing, gank em and leave. the gankers are not looking for a fight and the gankee insnt looking for a fight.does not matter if you are in ur static or in your home, that isnt a fight....its a gank. wormholes are a very good place to pve and hence ganks galore. if you want that wormhole pvp you really need to be making an attempt at their home. even if you dont want to evict. that forces them to fight you. and while they may batphone 100 people to help them, you can do the same. RF something and now u got a timer for pvp. and if they dont show, maybe u got some loot. About the only good post I've read in this thread. I'm not a game designer and I'm not the most creative person, but I will tell you where the issues lie and where the brainstorming needs to focus on for innovative solutions. The biggest Fixable issue in Wormholes is Corp Leadership, Corp Management, Corp Priorities. These 3 issues are similar in nature but very different in my opinion. Corp Leadership, in my opinion is content creators. You need people to do the day-to-day leg work, or you need a leader to command your members to do what needs to be done to find and create content. You need that Hot-** FC that is dedicated to provide the content and you need to reward that person. A broad suggestion is develop and incentive for people to want to be that person. Maybe some kind of ingame UI to create in-corp teams or group that compete with one another to achieve goals. What group can scan the most and way to reward that group. Tools to promote activity and leadership and competition in-corp. HK Perspective: We are cocky, competitive, and like to fight. It is in our culture to prove yourself and make a name for yourself. When you are constantly useful and proven trustworthy we share the rewards and the workload of High-Level Leadership. People are driven and encouraged to create content and when they do they are recognized and appreciated by the entire corp. Corp Management: I say this is different from Leadership in my eyes because of what role it plays in corp development. Management is done by a "leader" but it's less about what goes on in game or day to day content. Management is more about strategy and goals. You need a good business strategy, recruitment strategy, and know the importance of out of game tools and services (be and IT guy or have a good IT guy friend). Managing the business side of your corp is one of the biggest downfalls that unsuccessful WH corps have in my opinion. You need to look at your size, your income, and your expenses. Can you really afford and SRP program when you keep dying and learn nothing and not get any better. Probably not. You need to promote ISK self-sufficiency. Unless you plan on being mega bears and have 100% corp ops a very few times per month, The only obvious solution to be successful is to claim all PVP loot for corp. You can you will have so much less PvE, un-fun management workload if you focus your business on harvesting PvP loot and not NPC loot. Recruitment, Your corp will not survive without recruitment. "But Noobman I don't want to have 300 people and grow massively. IGÇÖm happy with my current members" Size is your own decision I'm not promoting the 300man corp. But your corp will not be successful without recruitment. People burn out, Seasons happen and people do other IRL things, School or work get tough and you are going to lose important people. You need to have a stream of new blood in, People that are excited about wormholes. You need media and social presence generally with positive coverage of your achievements, to make yourself look attractive to new recruits. I know this paragraph is getting long but lastly Management includes Out of game Services**. You need a thriving Forums community and social platform to grow your relationships between your members it's not always about Eve. People like to talk about plenty of other things. Jabber or some sort of notification/communication system. You're going to say "Noobman your Ping Warriors disgust me, I don't want to run a corp like that". I'll say to you that you are going to miss out on a lot of potential opportunities. One of those rare occurrences when another PvP group is actually in your Chain or connected to you? You need it for home defense and invasions. You need it for Hyping Up upcoming planned activities. Someone has to manage and administrate all these services. HK perspective: Business- We run our entire corp from PvP loot. No Taxes on any PvE done in Rage or in the chain (Marauders or w/e people like to die in). Recruitment- We have an amazing Recruitment Director that holds the Principles and Ideals of HK sacred. No matter how much the other Directors disagree with him, he works tirelessly to attract and keep our recruitment flow of new blood coming in (our inactive get purged and can always rejoin if they come back). IT- Ayeson (Historically Myllz) and Franky and myself administrate our IT Services (multiple others moderate our forums). It has always been important to develop and innovate tools to assist in management and services in HK. HK has a thriving Forums community that keeps us close ad informed of Corp activates. (continuing on next post) Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.
NoobMan Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 107	Posted - 2015.04.26 04:36:17 - [69] - Quote What are my game development solutions for Corp management? Business- There needs to be a store or a Market that the Corp can flat tax to generate revenue. Industrialist builds the stuff or hauls it in and the Corp has its own marketplace to provide for its members and charge a tax for convenience and to fund the corp. I see the issue with implementing this is where are we going to store all this stuff and when in limbo is it going to be while its up for sale and how can it be transferred to the member? A controversial or radical idea that could be exploited but built upon, have a Highsec GÇ£Home StationGÇ¥ or office that is linked to some POS module in your WH that you can interact with to buy and sell. I could see this being exploited by the home wormhole being able to constantly resupply themselves when under attack, But limit it to 1 module per system and when the POS is RfGÇÖd it is disabled. Recruitment- I would love to see more ways to get our corps GÇ£brandGÇ¥ out there. Maybe rename WHGÇÖs? Like how you can rename stations in Null when you conquer it you can put a funny name or symbol somewhere. I really donGÇÖt have a lot of game development ideas for recruitment. Mostly it involves out of game PR and media getting seen and recognized. IT- I donGÇÖt think CCP want to be responsible for facilitating a lot of the IT services we need to function in WHGÇÖS but why not develop some sort of secure ping system. If your Launcher or some minimized application in the taskbar is signed in to your pilot that is in X corporation then you can receive pings straight you your computer when youGÇÖre not logged into Eve. GÇ£SimplestGÇ¥ thing I can think of. Priorities- Man this is getting long so IGÇÖll make this one quick and dirty. The only way you are going to survive in w-space (unless you are mega bear and can afford to replace your occasional cap fleet) is to prioritize PvP. Your primetime peek activity should be spent trying to kill someone (the most fun thing in Eve to do and what your members need to keep loggin in). There is plenty of way to generate content for your members, please donGÇÖt make me write another thousand words and make this thread even longer by explaining them to you. The large corps riddled with inactivity and barely function, and what little activity they have is prioritized on PVE in their homes, are being put to the sword. Whether the WH community likes it or not, thatGÇÖs what has been happening over the past 6 months. All conflicts cannot be grouped into that one thought, there are other disputes and reasoning, but just like in nature the Carnivores will feed off the Herbivores. You live in wormholes. The most dangerous unforgiving place in Eve, your Corp needs to be strong and demand respect. Game development- That is the million dollar question. Broad: Incentives that canGÇÖt be exploited and new gameplay to level the playing field. If I had a perfect solution to this IGÇÖm sure CCP would hire me hah. Hope I have brought to light some non-crybaby **** like some of the post in this thread. I do like some jump clone mechanic that is regulated and not exploitable. I think C6GÇÖs should have dual Statics like C4GÇÖs and C2GÇÖs. C6 Space is the worse space in W-space. Wormhole GÇ£stargateGÇ¥ would increase traffic and make more people that hate scanning come to w-space to live, but will ruin gameplay. Reducing total numbers of WhGÇÖs (mainly c5GÇÖs) is probably a good idea until the population grows. How to implement that fairly, will be hard. Someone smarter than me should run some analysis and predict if it will be better or not. Mass spawn rate sucks. Never liked it. Said it would hurt the WH community overall. Lastly feel free to hate on me and Hard Knocks. I enjoy talking and reasoning with the haters and sometimes converting them to drink my Noobman GÇ£KoolaidGÇ¥. We are looking for our next invasion/occupation target. So please keep the HK hate coming. Any discussion is good discussion and IGÇÖm glad we agree and want to improve W-space. TL;DR Post took me 2 hours to write read it if your interested, blind hate if you don't. Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.
Ayeson Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 544	Posted - 2015.04.26 04:39:52 - [70] - Quote NoobMan wrote: MANY MANY MANY WORDS OH JESUS NOOB I GÖÑ the orthrus

Electra Magnetic Advanced Dynamics Inquest 21	Posted - 2015.04.26 07:03:44 - [71] - Quote EVE just needs to continue to grow and create more hide-e-holes for all of you angry bastards. Everyone should try to run their own corporation at least once.
Aivo Dresden Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 446	Posted - 2015.04.26 07:28:49 - [72] - Quote I agree with NoobMan's corp stuff and ideas. On the other hand, no development solution can fix the fact players will go out of their way to group together and kill stuff together. There's a fundamental mentality problem, one that some people seem to just plain out ignore. Until recently we saw the same thing in K-space, FozzieSov seems to have made some changes in there though; but it's to soon to see the final results of that of course. Making friends is good and playing together is nice. No question about it. However if you make friends with everyone, then of course there's no one left for all these friendos to shoot. That's just the reality of things. No development solution can fix that. If the 3 biggest groups gang together and then complain there's no one left to shoot, or that C5-C6 is empty and stale, then perhaps they need to have a look at their own play style. Why don't these groups just engage each other instead? Plenty of PvP opportunities there. People keep talking about risk adversities and how to address this; but this cannot be done by game changes. People will always find a way around it. At some point QEX, LZHX and HKs just need to go sod it, and engage each other. This "blue donut' play style is the definition of risk adverse. I don't think I'm alone when I say I would have loved to see QEX or HK crash the LZHX party in TDSIN's home and start a proper 3 way brawl. I don't even know if that's ever been done before on such a scale. Have someone seed a hole wait for the assault and then dunk both parties with the ships you secretly seeded yourself as well. Now that would be some epic content right there. Imagine this, if NC, PL and CFC set each other blue and then complain the situation in K-space is stale, you"d be the first to say "well yea, you set everyone blue". You have thousands of pilots there but you refuse to engage those. The same goes for J-space; the big entities need to step up and create their own content. It's easy to say it's stale when absolutely no responsibility is taken and these bigger groups in J-space actively refuse to engage each other. That's the problem right there. Quite honestly; leadership in any of those big 3 groups should just go sod it, we're the biggest and the meanest looking kid on the block, we'll engage the other 2. That would give you plenty of content and rest assured, C5-C6 space would be a lot less stale.
G0hme Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion 288	Posted - 2015.04.26 07:58:36 - [73] - Quote A couple of question came to mind after reading most of the non-toxic post here. 1. Do you think Wspace matters to the game? I don't mean to the people living in Wspace, but to the game as a whole. Yes/No 2a. Do you think Wspace should matter to the game 2b: How does Wspace matter to the game and third 3: Do you want Wspace to matter to the game. Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012 Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013 Got NPC API removed from Wormhole Space.
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 638	Posted - 2015.04.26 08:05:14 - [74] - Quote Cataca wrote: Probably not the most popular solution, but decrease local spawnrate of combat anomalies by 50-60%, add 10-30 new shattered wormholes c5-6 and increase the chance of statics to lead to them. Let the anomalies that now dont spawn in the local sites spawn there. Maybe increase site payout to somewhat reward "farm as fast as you can before hostiles show up" in shattereds. That said, i dont really know what the hell i am talking about. Thats actually a pretty good idea imho. Btw all of you who are saying that large groups just need to break up, are dellusional. You cant fix things by changing human nature, theres no patch for that. People will always evolve into the most efficient organizations for the environment (which right now is ~200 pvp toons in one hole, and tiny farming crews in others) and if we, or HK, or LH fall apart, others will take our place. Appealing to higher principles doesnt work, never did and never will. This can be "fixed" only through game design, environment and mechanics... for example what Cataca suggested. W-Space Realtor
Newt BlackCompany BlackCompany Personal Corp 39	Posted - 2015.04.26 08:14:13 - [75] - Quote G0hme wrote: A couple of question came to mind after reading most of the non-toxic post here. 1. Do you think Wspace matters to the game? I don't mean to the people living in Wspace, but to the game as a whole. Yes/No 2a. Do you think Wspace should matter to the game 2b: How does Wspace matter to the game and third 3: Do you want Wspace to matter to the game. Yes. Wormhole space matters to the game. I am not surprised to see someone from PL asking this, but not everyone likes nullsec politics and shenanigans and Wormhole space is a different way to enjoy this game.
Braxus Deninard Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 494	Posted - 2015.04.26 08:25:02 - [76] - Quote Aivo Dresden wrote: Quite honestly; leadership in any of those big 3 groups should just go sod it, we're the biggest and the meanest looking kid on the block, we'll engage the other 2. That would give you plenty of content and rest assured, C5-C6 space would be a lot less stale. Every time HK/LZHX roll into each other we fight and the KB's show that pretty clearly. You can believe that HK and LZHX are perma-blue all you want, but it simply isn't true. The only times that we are not shooting each other is when we invite each other to go and kill PvE fleets - which has recently been seen in TDSIN's case when I hunted and killed their capital fleet in their home twice in a week. LZHX gave me a lot of intel on their fleet and helped me with the scouting, so HK was more than happy to invite them along for the kills. TSDIN themselves admitted their capital fleets were very poorly defended both times. It's very interesting that your suggestion to create more content in high class space is for HK, a group not complaining about a lack of content to fight LZHX. It would certainly create more content for HK and LZHX, but what about the other tonnes of C5/C6 corps out there? What should they do for more content? The thing people need to remember about wormhole space is that you need to work for your content, and that's the reason we all live in high class wormhole space. You can't just roll your static a couple of times and expect content to come out at you, especially with the large number of C5's that exist in the game. Chances are you're going to find very little if you rage roll. I spend hours scanning target chains, scouting hostile holes, and seeding holes, because I firmly believe that you need to find the content and seek it out, not let it come to you, and that's the sole reason that HK kills as much as it does - because a lot of people have the same attitude as me. They go out and create content. Many other groups are also like this. Having said all this I am not against any change in high class space, but I do think there is much more to content generation in wormholes that people are forgetting.
G0hme Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion 288	Posted - 2015.04.26 08:35:39 - [77] - Quote Newt BlackCompany wrote: Yes. Wormhole space matters to the game. I am not surprised to see someone from PL asking this, but not everyone likes nullsec politics and shenanigans and Wormhole space is a different way to enjoy this game. You should probably just have quoted the first question as thats the only thing you answered. And for the record. I've lived longer in Wspace than your character has existed in this game. Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012 Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013 Got NPC API removed from Wormhole Space.
Help They GotMyMoney Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.04.26 09:50:19 - [78] - Quote I like the denial that HK, SSC, LZX and QEX don't work together all the time. Or if one of those groups is fighting someone and losing, the denial that they wouldn't call each other for support as seen in this case. What started as a small skirmish fight between company and ssc, turned into a t3 blobfest when the group resorted for capitals as force multiplier to match SSC's numbers, and the said entity then contacted HK for help. There are countless examples like this. High class space is dead because you can't fight any of four amigos, without them contacting each other for help, if they are in any sort of danger that they might lose something (may it be the fight/ships/virginity ect). C6 space is russian renter empire, with the few active people that currently reside there getting evicted as we speak, by the same people who complain that there is no content in wh's. (W-Space citizen was blue to HK for a period of time) At this point the 4 amigos are pretty much like the people in nullsec, who call your 30man fleet cowards when you run from their 300man fleet, and the worst part is that they don't realize that they are the problem. The way I see it this all started when noobman became the main hard knocks content provider/fc/call it whatever u like, as from what it seems he is the one holding these groups together. 2 years ago people would laugh if you would tell them to what high class wh space is today, and say that is never going to happen. And the same groups who are responsible for the lack of content/people in c5/c6's are now resorting to blaming and trying to change mechanics to how eve works, saying that is the issue, not realizing this was never the issue 2 years ago. Not to mention to how many groups were evicted from their wormholes to satisfy the said 4 group's thirst for ISK, and are now turned into 1-3 people's personal bear holes with that 1h a day bear time, with a single dread (a mechanic which will hopefully get changed soon). The proof of them protecting each others bears is simply in the lack of kills/loses from those groups. QEX has probe alts in most of HK magnetars, yet they haven't logoff trapped them at all, HK could easily kill W-Space citizen bear squads in c6 space, same goes for lazerhawks. You could call it fear of retaliation against their own bears perhaps. Regardless until a bigger group than these 4 combined comes into high class space, or they start burning each others bear empires down, nothing will change and people will continue to blame irrelevant mechanics like shattered wormholes and mass spawn distance. Post with you're main.
Domania Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 64	Posted - 2015.04.26 09:50:42 - [79] - Quote O, the age old question. This horse hasn't been beaten enough, right?
Aivo Dresden Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 448	Posted - 2015.04.26 10:00:27 - [80] - Quote Braxus Deninard wrote: Text The problem is that no one really wants to engage any of those big 3 because you already have impressive fleets and should for some reason something escalate and go south for you, there's a real concern the bat phone will be rang. It's not exactly encouraging people to risk fleets if they'll got bobbed out by the combined fleets you guys so often rock.

Pissfat Reverse Production 97	Posted - 2015.04.26 10:52:05 - [81] - Quote I held off posting here because I wanted to see the level of stupid come out first and it didn't take long at all. There is so much useless hating on LZHK's, HK and SSC like they are the big bad guys here and its disturbing really, you all need to perhaps look at all the groups that are the same size as these 3 groups and I will list them all below. All these groups are the equals of the "BIG 3" you all want to hate on and yet all you do is say that HK and LZHK's need to fight each other? (Like they don't already? WTF) Why are these other groups not being as aggressive as the big 3? Why do they not seed and log off trap escalation fleets? You can't honestly hate on them just because they have better leadership then your corp or that your corp is sitting idly closing statics and farming away in peace and quiet in your home wh. These guys are out there scouting and staying up well beyond their main TZ for a shitload of hours to get the action that they get. 288 :LZHK's 340 :HK 408 :SSC 205 :EXIT 380 :NOHO (Pre cascade) 298 :TDSIN 634 :-LOW- (** me, Talocan united 2.0) 270 :KICK 290 :WHBOO 283 :ADHC 282 :ARCLI 326 :TLC 339 :CARTH 344 :OI 271 :BAERS 247 :DAM 5205 :TOTAL Now if you look at this total of 5205 from 16 Corps/Alliances and imagine that they all split into 50-100 man corps how wonderful wh space would be, it would be a glorious land of pew pew, butterflies and milk and cookies for all. Yeah you guessed it it just isn't going to happen. It is absurd to think it would as much as I think we would all love it, human nature tells us that groups would always out scale the box to be bigger then the other and can you really blame them with the dangers of WH space. While we all want a magic mechanic change to fix wh space i don't think you have at all thought about how game breaking they are for the rest of wh space, the ideas listed in the OP that got suggested to Corbexx are absurd. Like you can't actually be serious you want more isk for home wh's? Or forever safety getting podded back to your home tower mid fight or mid siege? I am very surprised i havn't seen wh stabaliser mentioned yet... The only sensible idea we have had here is nerfing escalations into the ground! It needs to happen and sooner the better, the amount of groups that just close off their home WH's so they can farm in a massively increased area of safety is out of control and leads to these groups being cut off from all the other wh groups for hours on end. Not to mention how many of these groups all have a large number of alt wh's set up just for escalations to maximize their income while pvp'ing in their main chain (Empty C5 magnetar anyone?...). If you want more content then what you really want is more chains open and that means reduce the need to close all your static wh's, nerf escalations. When nerfing escalations I think we also need to raise significantly the isk gained in all sites to encourage people to risk it more in the open like is done significantly more in low class wh's, make it worthwhile again to see Maraurder gangs everywhere. Secondly i think we really do need to entertain the idea of dual static C5/6's. A lot of pvp wh groups simply won't run PVE on their mains in their main WH group, it isn't done because they understand what doing escalations does to your killboards (It closes chains for hours and ***** ruins your pvp opportunities) Give all C5/6's a second static and this will allow them more options for members to make a little isk in the now increased ISK in static wh farming while keeping remaining pvp opportunities open to them at all times. People will still naturally want to close these off for safety and thus increasing their risk exposure to make that isk safely, and please don't say dual statics will ruin high class space you only need to look at how great C4's are now to prove my point. I am Winthorp you might remember me from such films as i got CCP to make signature ID's persistent through DT for their love of AU bros.
Jez Amatin Enso Corp Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 67	Posted - 2015.04.26 11:16:31 - [82] - Quote dual stats are not a bad idea per se, but not sure they will fix everything. its relatively easy to collapse them in c4 space and then u simply don't warp to one to keep it closed (maybe ccp can do something about that too...). granted rolling with caps is more risky, but this makes it relatively easy to control ur static whs so long as ur fellow corpies arent bads. i'd agree less home focused escalation farming is not a bad idea. but then how likely is it that ppl would bring caps into a static to escalate? would the risk be worth the booty? also how about a capital only wh, just cos frig holes. then ccp can say they added content with minimal effort... :3
NoobMan Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 121	Posted - 2015.04.26 11:18:44 - [83] - Quote Dual static would be sweet, the more I think about it. I would hope Rage would become a c5-c5/c6. But I think it would really help balance pvp and pve for people that are not on the same level as some. You could have 1 chain and people scan it down for all the PVE sites they can shake a stick at and the other chain be rage rolled and scanned out for good null chains, for the roamers. OR simultaneous rage rolling for BEARS :D Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 972	Posted - 2015.04.26 11:21:45 - [84] - Quote Really, add jamming frigs to escalation waves and no one is going to solofarm in isolation that quickly anymore. Loki jammed, can't leave triage to launch drones to pop frigates, help Ima stuck
Help They GotMyMoney Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2015.04.26 11:27:13 - [85] - Quote Pissfat wrote: 288 :LZHK's 340 :HK 408 :SSC 205 :EXIT 380 :NOHO (Pre cascade) 298 :TDSIN 634 :-LOW- (**** me, Talocan united 2.0) 270 :KICK 290 :WHBOO 283 :ADHC 282 :ARCLI 326 :TLC 339 :CARTH 344 :OI 271 :BAERS 247 :DAM 5205 :TOTAL Good thing that all of those groups purge inactive members, and we all know that the amount of toons is the perfect example of how many people you got. Not to mention that you linked some groups which only pve, and are on pair with W-Space citizen (which has 700members, mind blowing). The fact that you listed LOW shows how desperate you are to prove a point/defend what has been happening. 3 of the groups you linked died/moved to lower class wormholes/ are moving to lower class wormholes as we speak. One of them is getting evicted by the cfc as we speak. From all the stated groups the 3 cfc amigos are the only ones who can get 50+ people in fleet without any problem (due to their aggressive purged-if-not-active rules), not to mention QEX, which are the capital powerhouse of high class wormholes. If I'm wrong, link material to prove otherwise. Dual statics would just kill wormholes even more, as it would take less time to roll the static and remote roll in the second static, in order to seed more stuff, so you wouldn't have to split your main fleet into 2 wormholes to get the same effect. Post with you're main.
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2255	Posted - 2015.04.26 11:28:09 - [86] - Quote Help They GotMyMoney wrote: I like the denial that HK, SSC, LZX and QEX don't work together all the time. Or if one of those groups is fighting someone and losing, the denial that they wouldn't call each other for support as seen in this case. What started as a small skirmish fight between company and ssc, turned into a t3 blobfest when the group resorted for capitals as force multiplier to match SSC's numbers, and the said entity then contacted HK for help. There are countless examples like this. High class space is dead because you can't fight any of four amigos, without them contacting each other for help, if they are in any sort of danger that they might lose something (may it be the fight/ships/virginity ect). C6 space is russian renter empire, with the few active people that currently reside there getting evicted as we speak, by the same people who complain that there is no content in wh's. (W-Space citizen was blue to HK for a period of time) At this point the 4 amigos are pretty much like the people in nullsec, who call your 30man fleet cowards when you run from their 300man fleet, and the worst part is that they don't realize that they are the problem. The way I see it this all started when noobman became the main hard knocks content provider/fc/call it whatever u like, as from what it seems he is the one holding these groups together. 2 years ago people would laugh if you would tell them to what high class wh space is today, and say that is never going to happen. And the same groups who are responsible for the lack of content/people in c5/c6's are now resorting to blaming and trying to change mechanics to how eve works, saying that is the issue, not realizing this was never the issue 2 years ago. Not to mention to how many groups were evicted from their wormholes to satisfy the said 4 group's thirst for ISK, and are now turned into 1-3 people's personal bear holes with that 1h a day bear time, with a single dread (a mechanic which will hopefully get changed soon). The proof of them protecting each others bears is simply in the lack of kills/loses from those groups. QEX has probe alts in most of HK magnetars, yet they haven't logoff trapped them at all, HK could easily kill W-Space citizen bear squads in c6 space, same goes for lazerhawks. You could call it fear of retaliation against their own bears perhaps. Regardless until a bigger group than these 4 combined comes into high class space, or they start burning each others bear empires down, nothing will change and people will continue to blame irrelevant mechanics like shattered wormholes and mass spawn distance. I checked your buttocks, sir, and they had a wound to the knee. No adventuring for you! Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014. Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Blizzaro Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 14	Posted - 2015.04.26 11:29:58 - [87] - Quote Pissfat wrote: You can't honestly hate on them just because they have better leadership then your corp or that your corp is sitting idly closing statics and farming away in peace and quiet in your home wh. These guys are out there scouting and staying up well beyond their main TZ for a shitload of hours to get the action that they get. This WH space doesn't have money moons pocos or sov for content. The content is purely player driven. https://zkillboard.com/ranks/recent/killers/ I can only speak for my corp HK as I am not in lazerhawks or ssc, but HK has the some of the most dedicated hardworking content creators in the whole of eve these people are not providing content for thousands of players like null sec entities but just a couple hundred accounts. The reason WH CFC is successful is because of driven hardworking individuals in a challenging sandbox environment with few tangible conflict drivers. Make conflict drivers for wspace. If the WH CFC ends up controlling them how is that different to nullsec? at least there would be something else to fight for as it is you can evict people sure but its not hard for them to set up shop in one of the other 600 WH's in c5/6 space and remain as another entity. Also please double the number of null/lowsec roaming holes to bring more pvper's into w space in the first place.
Sten Taxi 13. Enigma Project 1	Posted - 2015.04.26 11:35:38 - [88] - Quote A way to prompt a response from a defender without having to siege their towers with dreads.
Blizzaro Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 14	Posted - 2015.04.26 11:37:06 - [89] - Quote Sten Taxi wrote: A way to prompt a response from a defender without having to siege their towers with dreads. For Noobman this is just right click convo.
Pissfat Reverse Production 99	Posted - 2015.04.26 11:38:52 - [90] - Quote Help They GotMyMoney wrote: NPC alt ramblings I won't ever engage with an NPC alt further then this. I am Winthorp you might remember me from such films as i got CCP to make signature ID's persistent through DT for their love of AU bros.

Help They GotMyMoney Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2015.04.26 11:42:36 - [91] - Quote Pissfat wrote: Help They GotMyMoney wrote: NPC alt ramblings I won't ever engage with an NPC alt further then this. Post with you're main. Post with you're main.
Pissfat Reverse Production 99	Posted - 2015.04.26 11:46:50 - [92] - Quote Help They GotMyMoney wrote: Pissfat wrote: Help They GotMyMoney wrote: NPC alt ramblings I won't ever engage with an NPC alt further then this. Post with you're main. I will be allowed to tomorrow. I am Winthorp you might remember me from such films as i got CCP to make signature ID's persistent through DT for their love of AU bros.
Kellie Dusette Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin 9625	Posted - 2015.04.26 12:02:09 - [93] - Quote Help They GotMyMoney wrote: Post with you're main. your. Collect all 3 Dusette Sets (Now available in Thukker Tribe Edition)* Basic Edition \| Catcember Edition \| Forum Edition
fido goran Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 47	Posted - 2015.04.26 12:03:40 - [94] - Quote Reduce the amount of moons in high class WH's. There will be a hard limit of capitals that can be stored unpiloted in WH's, due to the 1 tower per moon, and limited ship storage space per moon thing. This has the knock on effect of even the largest 300 man alliance only has a limited amount of capitals for use in home defense (or more if they decide to commit holding characters to log off in spares) hopefully encouraging more all in fleets, even against established holes. It may also encourage the breaking up of larger corps/alliances into more holes/other corps, due to space issues in their home. It is a huge, disruptive change, but if the bigger entities have limited capitals in their home hole, home field advantage is reduced, invasions and evictions might happen more, in time. I don't think that by itself that this change will promote endless pvp, but I don't know if there is a fix for being able to call in friends at a moments notice, which really is one of the bigger pressing issues that plagues C5/C6 space. Michael1995 wrote: As for us never fighting each other; Our last fight with HK, the time before that. As far as I'm aware anyway. You linked battle reports almost 2 (7 weeks) and 3 (10 weeks) months old. I've only just rejoined SSC, but I know from my time here before that we would roll in to other big entities far more frequently than this. I'm not going to pick fights, but honestly you have to see that the majority of Eve see's WH space fighting together far more frequently than fighting against each other.
Jack Hayson Atztech Inc. Ixtab. 145	Posted - 2015.04.26 13:05:22 - [95] - Quote Grrrr... Hard Knocks. No seriously - people need to stop making Hard Krabs/Quantum Hawks/etc. responsible for everything going on in highclass and instead look at what they can do themselves to create content. Sure, it's not nice that they tend to blob the ever-living crp out of people and I wouldn't want to fight them either anymore with the numbers they can throw around, but they aren't the only people left in w-space you can fight and they are certainly not responsible for anything but their own content. Mechanically I think there are a few things that could be changed to help with PvP, but none of that can be the saving grace if people don't get off their lazy arses and start doing stuff. W-space in general is too big for the amount of people living there atm. It's roughly the size of sov null, but with less active people and without the luxury of being able to just fly to where the bright spots light up on the map. Shrinking it might be hard but maybe it would be possible to make it more likely (but not guranteed ofc) for a new wormhole to connect to a system when it has people active and as such artificially shrink w-space without actually removing systems. High class needs more conectivity. (and by that I don't mean those useless frig holes) When I think about why we (Ixtab) left our C5 for a C4 it's mostly the better connectivity of the dual static and low class in general. From our C5 the chains would often look like Home->empty C5-> empty C5->C3->HS*, where as our C4 chains now look more like this (which isn't even scanned down completely because people were lazy that day^^).
calaretu Honestly We didnt know Unsettled. 293	Posted - 2015.04.26 13:22:48 - [96] - Quote Gonna throw in a very radical and hated idea. But several have spoken about reducing the size of wormholespace. This is actually possible without going through the "ops your system doesnt exist anymore" route. The suggestion is gates. Yes gates. And here is how: Each system can have 1 gate. And it needs a recieving gate to bond to a system. This way you can bond two systems together effectivly making them into one system (its important that you can't link the gate to a system without a gate on other side and that its a limit on one gate per system. Any more or different lets you bond more systems together and that can go all sorts of wrong). The gates require fuel of sorts (PI?) and can be disrupted by hostiles. Gates bonding c5/c6 system together can carry capitals but gates to lower classes can not (the ability for an invading force to bring gates of their own and bring capital force invasion to a c2 is out of balance). Also require the system to be "owned" in some way to avoid abuse by invading forces that doesn't put in the effort to first take over the system. So what would this bring to the table? - Reduce the size of wormholespace - More connections/2nd static(s) to a group living there. - More to do and twice the possibility for people to roll into you Does that sum up the solutions people have come up with so far? ~Bringer of happiness http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ .ORLY is recruiting
Odidi PeYo 13. Enigma Project 8	Posted - 2015.04.26 14:07:24 - [97] - Quote Since i came back to eve and wormhole space i have noticed that there is less mid class corps/alliances than we had back in 2013/14. Most of c5 space consists of farming holes or dead systems. - Replace frigate holes with null sec ones. - Make farming in the shattered holes more rewarding and less rewarding in the normal ones. - Spawn lower class sites in higher class wormholes, enables recruitment of pilots with less sp that are eager to learn and pvp - Alliance bookmarks (never seen that request). Small groups could then join forces and move to higher class wormholes and still run their corps the way they want. There has and there will always be a few powerhouses in wh space that will out number most corps 3-1. You don't have to fight with them if you don't want to or have the numbers to do so. Just sit in your pos and smile and wave, keep in mind that they are likely to have 20-40 ppl to entertain and they will roll for a new chain if they don't get anything out of it. If you get ganked running sites by them well **** you had a bad day. We gank anything we se running sites and most of the time we out number the person 10-1. Just how ganking works in this game.
Peter Moonlight Lazerhawks 149	Posted - 2015.04.26 14:38:08 - [98] - Quote Odidi PeYo wrote: Since i came back to eve and wormhole space i have noticed that there is less mid class corps/alliances than we had back in 2013/14. Most of c5 space consists of farming holes or dead systems. - Replace frigate holes with null sec ones. - Make farming in the shattered holes more rewarding and less rewarding in the normal ones. - Spawn lower class sites in higher class wormholes, enables recruitment of pilots with less sp that are eager to learn and pvp - Alliance bookmarks (never seen that request). Small groups could then join forces and move to higher class wormholes and still run their corps the way they want. There has and there will always be a few powerhouses in wh space that will out number most corps 3-1. You don't have to fight with them if you don't want to or have the numbers to do so. Just sit in your pos and smile and wave, keep in mind that they are likely to have 20-40 ppl to entertain and they will roll for a new chain if they don't get anything out of it. If you get ganked running sites by them well ** you had a bad day. We gank anything we se running sites and most of the time we out number the person 10-1. Just how ganking works in this game. Alliance bookmarks have been suggested few hundreds of times. Yes there will be powerhouses, there is ALWAYS powerhouses in eve,wspace, kspace, mmo's, everywhere, so get over it. I saw you guys quite a lot in your chains and it's mostly you trying to higgs a wormhole and roll away from us or you were PVEing. I also went trough your killboard right now to see how you never not outnumber your enemies, and everything I saw is you outnumbering all the people who you fight, and 90% of your kills are in nullsec, and I well know that all you do is roam nullsec and cry in channels for batphones. So.. You outnumber people in wspace and take fights only you can win for sure, 80-90% of your killboard is killing ratters in nullsec, and you came here to tell someone something about "w-space powerhouses"? FYI Lazerhawks usual fleet numbers is 10-25 and most of people know that, except those that cry that we "blob" always, but it is just we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers, and yes we do loose ships too. Also, Quote:** You don't have to fight with them if you don't want to or have the numbers to do so. Just sit in your pos and smile and wave.. New age is coming to w-space, I know a lot of people who would rather see an active farmhole where they might kill site runners, then guys like you who always roll away, not fight, and loose a solo farming dread in home system/static weekly. PS: http://kb.lazerhawks.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=19488 You had even more you just didn't got on all km's with everything and there was your guys who stayed on POS, but we totally blobbed you 3:1 in your home system, and we totally had more caps, riiight?
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1190	Posted - 2015.04.26 15:13:54 - [99] - Quote Kellie Dusette wrote: Help They GotMyMoney wrote: Post with you're main. your. you're If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Jay Joringer 13. Enigma Project 436	Posted - 2015.04.26 15:17:04 - [100] - Quote Peter Moonlight wrote: Alliance bookmarks have been suggested few hundreds of times. Yes there will be powerhouses, there is ALWAYS powerhouses in eve,wspace, kspace, mmo's, everywhere, so get over it. I saw you guys quite a lot in your chains and it's mostly you trying to higgs a wormhole and roll away from us or you were PVEing. I also went trough your killboard right now to see how you never not outnumber your enemies, and everything I saw is you outnumbering all the people who you fight, and 90% of your kills are in nullsec, and I well know that all you do is roam nullsec and cry in channels for batphones. So.. You outnumber people in wspace and take fights only you can win for sure, 80-90% of your killboard is killing ratters in nullsec, and you came here to tell someone something about "w-space powerhouses"? FYI Lazerhawks usual fleet numbers is 10-25 and most of people know that, except those that cry that we "blob" always, but it is just we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers, and yes we do loose ships too. Also, Quote: You don't have to fight with them if you don't want to or have the numbers to do so. Just sit in your pos and smile and wave.. New age is coming to w-space, I know a lot of people who would rather see an active farmhole where they might kill site runners, then guys like you who always roll away, not fight, and loose a solo farming dread in home system/static weekly. PS: http://kb.lazerhawks.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=19488 You had even more you just didn't got on all km's with everything and there was your guys who stayed on POS, but we totally blobbed you 3:1 in your home system, and we totally had more caps, riiight? I don't see anything in Odi's post about Lazerhawks, so I don't see why you are getting precious about how you guys operate. We don't have any problems with how you guys do things, but if you're going to have digs at us, you really ought to know what you're talking about. Nothing in your post suggest to me that you do. While I'm glad you've so shrewdly picked apart our killboard, I'm sure I don't need to tell you that they do tell the whole story, right? Any moron knows that the battle reports don't always show every ship that was on field. I know of one occasion we tactically massed a midpoint hole in our chain. We were expecting you guys to bring a fleet our way. The massing was there to prevent any engagement escalating into a cap brawl that wouldn't favour us. Then your fleet went some place else. But by all means jump to some dull conclusion rather than take my word for it. The "calling for batphones" part is awesome. Truly. There's been one occasion. One. And now we get smacktalked about it by Lazerhawks of all people. There's some idiom about pots and kettles that springs to mind... http://smug-bastard.blogspot.co.uk

Help They GotMyMoney Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2015.04.26 15:29:07 - [101] - Quote Peter Moonlight wrote: You outnumber people in wspace and take fights only you can win for sure, 80-90% of your killboard is killing ratters in nullsec, and you came here to tell someone something about "w-space powerhouses"? FYI Lazerhawks usual fleet numbers is 10-25 and most of people know that, except those that cry that we "blob" always, but it is just we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers, and yes we do loose ships too. That was a sarcastic self-haze right? Edit: we fight each other at any given chance. Post with you're main.
Kellie Dusette Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin 9631	Posted - 2015.04.26 16:18:42 - [102] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: Kellie Dusette wrote: Help They GotMyMoney wrote: Post with you're main. your. you're Kellie explain for you, little body, big heart. "Jester, your face!" "Jester, you're an ass!" You can for see now this one make a different? Even Kellie for know of this, and Kellie for struggle very many much with a talk. Fly a Buzzard. Collect all 3 Dusette Sets (Now available in Thukker Tribe Edition) Basic Edition \| Catcember Edition \| Forum Edition
Lucius Kalari Limited Power Inc 4	Posted - 2015.04.26 16:20:44 - [103] - Quote I think the comments have gone slightly off topic. I'm all for no cap escalations, but I have a feeling people would go and do incursions instead rather than make people go farm the static. I think we can all agree that shattered wormholes are unbelievably terrible and I believe someone mentioned before about making them more profitable than standard wormholes, I think this is a good idea. Putting gates in wormhole space is an awful idea and so is making wormhole act like gates (As in they're there on overview ready to warp to,) equally as bad. I have seen plenty of frigate holes that haven't lead to any kills because there isn't really much you can take on in frigate/destroyer fleet unless you are ganking something or jumping into a wolf rayet, and even then you can only bring frig logi which realistically isn't great. Instead of frigate holes, why not convert them to standard wormholes, but keep the rate of them spawning? I would prefer this rather than higher class wormholes having dual statics. I'm probably right by saying that it has already been mentioned, but why not have something like low-grade moon goo? Give people reasons to come to wormhole space. If I have preached what has already been mentioned as an idea, I apologise, but I think it's better than crying about who batphones who, or who blobs who blah blah blah. Lets just put ideas out there to try and help make wormholes a better a place, because surely that's what we all want?
Adriana Nolen Sama Guild 90	Posted - 2015.04.26 16:30:43 - [104] - Quote Make farming C5/C6 sites much easier & cut blue isk by half from cap escalations. Remove all dreads, leave carriers. Dual statics for C5. Maybe 3 statics for C6 {make em really deadly}
Peter Moonlight Lazerhawks 149	Posted - 2015.04.26 17:47:16 - [105] - Quote Jay Joringer wrote: Peter Moonlight wrote: Alliance bookmarks have been suggested few hundreds of times. Yes there will be powerhouses, there is ALWAYS powerhouses in eve,wspace, kspace, mmo's, everywhere, so get over it. I saw you guys quite a lot in your chains and it's mostly you trying to higgs a wormhole and roll away from us or you were PVEing. I also went trough your killboard right now to see how you never not outnumber your enemies, and everything I saw is you outnumbering all the people who you fight, and 90% of your kills are in nullsec, and I well know that all you do is roam nullsec and cry in channels for batphones. So.. You outnumber people in wspace and take fights only you can win for sure, 80-90% of your killboard is killing ratters in nullsec, and you came here to tell someone something about "w-space powerhouses"? FYI Lazerhawks usual fleet numbers is 10-25 and most of people know that, except those that cry that we "blob" always, but it is just we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers, and yes we do loose ships too. Also, Quote: You don't have to fight with them if you don't want to or have the numbers to do so. Just sit in your pos and smile and wave.. New age is coming to w-space, I know a lot of people who would rather see an active farmhole where they might kill site runners, then guys like you who always roll away, not fight, and loose a solo farming dread in home system/static weekly. PS: http://kb.lazerhawks.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=19488 You had even more you just didn't got on all km's with everything and there was your guys who stayed on POS, but we totally blobbed you 3:1 in your home system, and we totally had more caps, riiight? I don't see anything in Odi's post about Lazerhawks, so I don't see why you are getting precious about how you guys operate. We don't have any problems with how you guys do things, but if you're going to have digs at us, you really ought to know what you're talking about. Nothing in your post suggest to me that you do. While I'm glad you've so shrewdly picked apart our killboard, I'm sure I don't need to tell you that they do tell the whole story, right? Any moron knows that the battle reports don't always show every ship that was on field. I know of one occasion we tactically massed a midpoint hole in our chain. We were expecting you guys to bring a fleet our way. The massing was there to prevent any engagement escalating into a cap brawl that wouldn't favour us. Then your fleet went some place else. But by all means jump to some dull conclusion rather than take my word for it. The "calling for batphones" part is awesome. Truly. There's been one occasion. One. And now we get smacktalked about it by Lazerhawks of all people. There's some idiom about pots and kettles that springs to mind... We're a "powerhouse" obviously and you treated us and some others the way he described which I personally don't like.
dexter xio New Caldari Bureau of Investigation 73	Posted - 2015.04.26 17:54:25 - [106] - Quote hi NOFUN Diplomat xd
Angux Thermopyle Negative Density 33	Posted - 2015.04.26 18:28:18 - [107] - Quote One idea. Towers are tied to POCO's at Barren or Temperate Planets for Fuel (or some type of unique material the tower needs from a planet). POCO's send NPC convoy at a set time determined by POCO owner to bring fuel to towers. Size of the tower determines how big the NPC escort fleet is and how dangerous it is. NPC convoy flys 40k off POCO then warps to tower Convoy shows up on D-Scan or Combat Probes If Convoy is attacked and killed it drops fuel (or special item) which can be scooped and sold for profit. Alerts are sent out that your convoy is under attack If convoy does not arrive at tower then: 1 Day - No effect 2 Day- No effect 3 Day- Industry Processes Slow down 50% 4 Day- Industry Processes Stop 5 Day- No additional effect 6 Day- Tower is Reinforced 7 Day- Tower offlines THE CONVOY MUST GET THROUGH Optional- PvE Sleepers can interdict your convoys. Or Drifters... or giant space squids... whatever. They won't leave that POCO till someone kills them. The Sleeper goup difficulty is determined by WH Class Benefits: -Removes time / resource consuming fuel runs -Small gangs can interdict fuel convoys for profit -Sieges without having to seed or extract -Its a way to put pressure on someone without a full on eviction but takes time -Larger groups can send detachments of pilots to do this in multiple WH's and train small unit leaders -Smaller defending entities have a chance get a plan together, get in help in or hire Mercs. Its a big mechanics change but I think this process could apply to many more areas of EvE besides WH's.
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 160	Posted - 2015.04.26 18:56:45 - [108] - Quote G0hme wrote: Newt BlackCompany wrote: Yes. Wormhole space matters to the game. I am not surprised to see someone from PL asking this, but not everyone likes nullsec politics and shenanigans and Wormhole space is a different way to enjoy this game. You should probably just have quoted the first question as thats the only thing you answered. And for the record. I've lived longer in Wspace than your character has existed in this game. I though you meant getting more meaning to w-space? If so we should push CCP to do what Rhavas proposed in this blog : https://interstellarprivateer.wordpress.com/2015/04/07/naming-rights-2/ No local in null sec would fix everything!
Siginek BAND of MAGNUS THE R0NIN 14	Posted - 2015.04.26 19:02:24 - [109] - Quote On suggestion of lazerhawks there is created topic about lack of pvp in wormhole and yet, they and their "friends" are main reason of this problem, because they are responsible of end of most groups that could/would provide actual pvp ... and when some pvp comes they just blob everyone ... Right? ... i wonder why there is no actual pvp for you
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 160	Posted - 2015.04.26 19:09:49 - [110] - Quote calaretu wrote: Gonna throw in a very radical and hated idea. But several have spoken about reducing the size of wormholespace. This is actually possible without going through the "ops your system doesnt exist anymore" route. The suggestion is gates. Yes gates. And here is how: Each system can have 1 gate. And it needs a recieving gate to bond to a system. This way you can bond two systems together effectivly making them into one system (its important that you can't link the gate to a system without a gate on other side and that its a limit on one gate per system. Any more or different lets you bond more systems together and that can go all sorts of wrong). The gates require fuel of sorts (PI?) and can be disrupted by hostiles. Gates bonding c5/c6 system together can carry capitals but gates to lower classes can not (the ability for an invading force to bring gates of their own and bring capital force invasion to a c2 is out of balance). Also require the system to be "owned" in some way to avoid abuse by invading forces that doesn't put in the effort to first take over the system. So what would this bring to the table? - Reduce the size of wormholespace - More connections/2nd static(s) to a group living there. - More to do and twice the possibility for people to roll into you Does that sum up the solutions people have come up with so far? Gates, realy? You must be trolling, big alliances would just string them to gether to be even more invincible... . No local in null sec would fix everything!

Tim Nering R3d Fire 48	Posted - 2015.04.26 19:46:11 - [111] - Quote just becuase they outnumber you 10:1 doesnt mean for a second that u can not fight them. Red Fire's response to being a small corp in the era of the "wormhole cfc" so im not an expert in everything wormholes but i am a expert in being a small corp. Here is what Red Fire does when i got 4 dudes and i got isogen 5 over there with 10 dudes. or maybe lzhx with infinity dudes. i just uh..... tell them that. just be fkin honest about it and try to arrange the fight. "hey i only got 4 dudes online im waiting for u at the sun, bring whatever u think u want to kill me, fyi FRAPS is running." that little line right there is what gets me so much respect from people i find. they make it a 4v4 or a 2v2. look it is going to be a long time before i can throw down caps and t3s or whatever to fight these guys so i dont pretend that i can. so i call it the Red fire pvp event and make it a game. people respond really well to it and i get some action. off the top of my head i did this with blue-fire (didnt show up to fight me), isogen 5 (we got shrekt), some french corp i cant remember (won a 2v2 at the sun), ADHC (killed 2 legions with myrm + hype \m/), SUPREME MATHEMATICS (did a lot of frig 1v1s, lost 2 incursus), codename47 which i believe diabanded? (no kills got away in structure tho). i never did this with hk, lzhx, qex or ssc. tbh havent gotten the chance yet. the most i see of them is running down the chains to highsec or whatever. but i imagine they would do the same thing. also the last time i ran into hk and lzhx they were having an all out t3 brawl 1 jump away from me, i tried to roll the chain and well.... lzhx ganked mah rolling sht... noooooo. XDXDXDXD if you want fights just say so. ppl will fight you. especially a group that is bigger than you! they are prob just so shocked that u havent possed up and logged out. its that whole wormhole honor thing. and if ur a small group like be just... just be real man. tell them whats up and it kinda makes them wan2 make it fair.
Ab'del Abu Atlantis Ascendant 266	Posted - 2015.04.26 19:50:07 - [112] - Quote So much bad blood in this thread :sadface: I've been in w-space now for some one and a half years or so, doing 99% of my pvp solo (if you see others on my killmails, chances are I was double-/triple-boxing). Looking back I've actually gotten good and/or fair fights from pretty much all of the big entities, and I'm not talking ganks of LZHX or NOHO (RIP) mining barges happily mining away in their respective home systems gg. All it takes is being a little pro-active, stalking them until you find a good moment to pounce or just trying to separate individuals from the larger group, if you're being outnumbered. Believe it or not, but I see members of the big corps roaming through the chain regularly in groups of 5-10 people, so there is a certain window of opportunity to go after them. I guess most people don't do it, however, because they're afraid of being blobbed or want to +1 them themselves to be safe ... just to miss that window of opportunity in the end. It's a lil' funny then to read so many complaints about some groups fielding too many guys, when the same thing is being done by the medium sized corps to even smaller gangs or solo pilots like me. In my experience it's actually more likely to get an interesting engagement from the big groups because the smaller ones will often not warp to me before they've assembled an overwhelming force. Why that is, I don't know. Probably because they're just starving for content and everyone wants to be part of it. And I don't blame them ... I feel like w-space needs a change of mentality/attitude rather than a change of mechanics. People need to develop a better awareness of the opportunities that are out there right now. If you're slow to react you'll always be the one to draw the short straw. On the other hand, if someone wins 95% of their fights, then they're clearly not doing enough to achieve a healthy balance. Matching number of pilots on both sides is seldom feasible, because noone can be expected to stay back while the rest of his/her corpies go out to have fun, but it's always possible to ship down. "But we're just so much better than all the other folks, we win even after shipping down!" I say, bring an even weaker setup. Leave logi at home, pass on using e-war. If one group continuously curb stomps the other, it loses the right to complain.
Raquel Saissore Lazerhawks 0	Posted - 2015.04.26 19:56:51 - [113] - Quote Siginek wrote: On suggestion of lazerhawks there is created topic about lack of pvp in wormhole and yet, they and their "friends" are main reason of this problem, because they are responsible of end for most groups that could/would provide actual pvp ... and when some pvp comes they just blob everyone ... Right? ... i wonder why cant you find any pvp in high-class wormholes Salty. Maybe don't roll c6 when you know there is a huge op happening, what did you expect to happen, us have the fleet ignore you? If you guys had any logic you would have ignored the connection and waited for us to roll it. As for linking exceptional loses like that doesn't fool anyone that knows what's actually going on in high class wormholes.
Siginek BAND of MAGNUS THE R0NIN 14	Posted - 2015.04.26 19:58:40 - [114] - Quote Raquel Saissore wrote: Siginek wrote: On suggestion of lazerhawks there is created topic about lack of pvp in wormhole and yet, they and their "friends" are main reason of this problem, because they are responsible of end for most groups that could/would provide actual pvp ... and when some pvp comes they just blob everyone ... Right? ... i wonder why cant you find any pvp in high-class wormholes Salty. Maybe don't roll c6 when you know there is a huge op happening, what did you expect to happen, us have the fleet ignore you? If you guys had any logic you would have ignored the connection and waited for us to roll it. As for linking exceptional loses like that doesn't fool anyone that knows what's actually going on in high class wormholes. Yeah ... right ... eviction of another active WH corp ... im sure that will help to improve pvp life in high-class wormholes ...
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 42852	Posted - 2015.04.26 20:58:55 - [115] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: it's really easy. you take all the 300man groups, make them into 50-100 man groups and remove all their blues. This. Ab'del Abu wrote: I feel like w-space needs a change of mentality/attitude rather than a change of mechanics. And this. The issue is 100% social, not environmental or mechanical at all. Both of those quotes literally sum up the whole thing, imo. But being realistic is anything going to change in a social context or in the mindset of wormholers/wormhole groups? Of course not. It's much easier to keep doing what we're doing and ask CCP to change the playing field instead. This situation isn't inherantly bad though, in my opinion it's a natural evolution of the culture in wormholes (or any part of space as it grows and evolves). It ebbs and flows though, as blue-groups have fallings-out and big players eventually failscade (and they all do/will eventually). But it will keep moving in the direction it's moving now ultimately. So in the end it's unrealistic to expect a change in culture and perhaps looking for changes to mechanics is the only realistic solution. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
MooMooDachshundCow Incertae Sedis 223	Posted - 2015.04.26 21:07:04 - [116] - Quote There have been some very helpful responses in this thread about corporation management and content creation. Very inspirational, reminds me about how wormhole space is supposed to be for more serious players than the rest of Eve. That was always a draw for me. I feel like this thread is asking for major changes and wild ideas. I think the dual static for C5s or C6s could be a boon for the reasons people listed. The fact it would make farmers harder to hide is an ancillary benefit. Other changes to pve that encourage groups over single members would be good too, since they encourage an actual organization instead of just a bunch of friendly solo players with a co-defense pact. Fixing warp to zeros and multi day farming would be good starts. As an incredibly controversial idea, what if the killing of rats actually increased the chance of spawning a new type of wormhole. This wh type would start in C5/6 space and lead to whatever space had ratting in it. The WH would have a new type that was very short lived but high mass. I think this sort of mechanic would be a good one to add because it would serve to make it easier for active members of WH space to find one another without a major change to something fundamental like number of systems. If these were made to lead to null also to allow killing ratting carriers and such would be a nice benefit as well. There are many different styles of pvp in wh space. I've always been more of a fan of scanning and ganking, so I'd prefer changes which give more advantage to patient skillful players over the casual sloppy ones. At the same time, as someone who attempts to lead a small organization, making WH space harder to live in, or less lucrative, makes it harder for me to maintain the numbers which ultimately give me the ability to bring pvp to anyone. As such, I'm torn and I don't propose to have the answers. I just continue to try to build my group and bring content for everyone. Yeah, well, it's just like my-á*opinion*, man.
Betti Betty Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2015.04.26 21:16:34 - [117] - Quote just want to be part of the discussion ^
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1191	Posted - 2015.04.26 21:18:52 - [118] - Quote Kellie Dusette wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: Kellie Dusette wrote: Help They GotMyMoney wrote: Post with you're main. your. you're Kellie explain for you, little body, big heart. "Jester, your face!" "Jester, you're an ass!" You can for see now this one make a different? Even Kellie for know of this, and Kellie for struggle very many much with a talk. Fly a Buzzard. your* If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Aimee Arbosa Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 407	Posted - 2015.04.26 21:21:57 - [119] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: your* Watch your tongue erino.
Help They GotMyMoney Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2015.04.26 21:29:10 - [120] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: Aivo Dresden wrote: Hidden Fremen wrote: Lol... You could have easily taken on TDSIN on your own. Instead you call in the whole gang. This is how I know you're just another pitchforker. Who did we bring to evict TDSIN, exactly? It's pure LZHX in here. Bombers Bar came to third-party harass because it was being streamed, but this is a Lazerhawks only operation. Do some research, *check your facts before you spout ignorance.* Yes. Post with you're main. Lazerhawks: ¨we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers¨

Accountant O'Death Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2015.04.26 21:34:36 - [121] - Quote What's actually wrong with wormholes? The thing is, we like how wormholes work and the fact that it's not K-space. Most wormholers can agree that what we find so attractive about wormholes is their randomness. Give us more randomness in other aspects. A random chance of an escalation not spawning or spawning multiple waves when it should only be spawning one. Random chance of not being able to jump a hole for a random time between 1 and 3 minutes because it's mass was temporarily disrupted by too many jumps/mass within an X amount of time. These are just examples of things that can be done to make changes to wormholes that correlate with the idea of living in the randomness of W-Space. These are not requests of change or suggestions but merely examples.
Calmatt POS Party Low-Class 139	Posted - 2015.04.26 21:35:21 - [122] - Quote 1. Remove/reduce cap escalation incentives, increase base site payout while also increasing difficulty. 2. Dual statics for higher class. 3. I'm not very impressed with the new rolling mechanics on spawn distance. I think we've given it a fair shot but I don't see it actually improving things, it just makes it harder to look for targets. Get rid of it. I mean...those seem like the most realistic and highest potential ideas here.
Araikas Rhal Hair-Trigger Prolapse. 8	Posted - 2015.04.26 21:53:55 - [123] - Quote Turd Destroyer wrote: Dual statics for high class space. Look at the boon it has been for c4 space. I very much agree here. More reliable exits, means more content usually ime. I have always thought it would generate more player interaction if say connections had a higher chance to hit WHs with more activity as well. Yes, it would slightly kick carebears in the head, but if you are in WH space you should be ready for pewpew and ISK at the same time. See any Prolapse. Phoon fits lost, if we have any... we really BEARly (<<---- Im funny see?) run our own sites. Anyway, our PvE doctrine has points, ect. Mods you would also see on PvP ships for this reason. Thoughts?
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1191	Posted - 2015.04.26 22:09:36 - [124] - Quote Aimee Arbosa wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: your* Watch your tongue erino. I think you mean you are tongue If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Aimee Arbosa Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 427	Posted - 2015.04.26 22:17:01 - [125] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: Aimee Arbosa wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: your* Watch your tongue erino. I think you mean you are tongue I'd rather be tongue than teeth. And I'm sure you're also glad. Why are we shitting up this thread? This is serious business.
Araikas Rhal Hair-Trigger Prolapse. 8	Posted - 2015.04.26 22:20:16 - [126] - Quote Aimee Arbosa wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: Aimee Arbosa wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: your* Watch your tongue erino. I think you mean you are tongue I'd rather be tongue than teeth. And I'm sure you're also glad. Why are we shitting up this thread? This is serious business. I'm not sure any thread is complete without Jester or at minimal TF shitting on it. In fact i only looked back to this because i saw the notification that Jester has posted something after me, and i was hoping he had **** all over my idea! Lol.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 973	Posted - 2015.04.26 22:21:00 - [127] - Quote A complicated thing: You'd need to launch a deployable to trigger escalations in addition, the deployable creates and opens a hole to a little nebulae/pocket, void of anything but a bit of junk and the exit to the escalation wave. If someone rolls his hole, two sigs (can) spawn: one static and one kickass huge sig into such a pocket. Additionally, a few more entrances appear scattered throughout w-space. *Works throughout all of the classes to varying effect.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1191	Posted - 2015.04.26 22:24:56 - [128] - Quote Araikas Rhal wrote: Aimee Arbosa wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: Aimee Arbosa wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: your* Watch your tongue erino. I think you mean you are tongue I'd rather be tongue than teeth. And I'm sure you're also glad. Why are we shitting up this thread? This is serious business. I'm not sure any thread is complete without Jester or at minimal TF shitting on it. In fact i only looked back to this because i saw the notification that Jester has posted something after me, and i was hoping he had ** all over my idea! Lol. implying I'm taking time to read the dissertations of ** ideas people are posting in this thread. All class dual static is prolly the best idea tbh If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1191	Posted - 2015.04.26 22:25:56 - [129] - Quote Aimee Arbosa wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: Aimee Arbosa wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: your* Watch your tongue erino. I think you mean you are tongue I'd rather be tongue than teeth. And I'm sure you're also glad. Why are we shitting up this thread? This is serious business. I think I've seen a movie that vaguely relates to this before... That feel when a random dusette alt has ******* 500 likes. goddamn RPers If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 29083	Posted - 2015.04.26 22:29:08 - [130] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: Aimee Arbosa wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: Aimee Arbosa wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: your* Watch your tongue erino. I think you mean you are tongue I'd rather be tongue than teeth. And I'm sure you're also glad. Why are we shitting up this thread? This is serious business. I think I've seen a movie that vaguely relates to this before... That feel when a random dusette alt has ******* 500 likes. goddamn RPers "random" "500 likes" Oh you kids. Bob Is Always Watching ... Officially Unofficial Chainsaw DiplomatGäó "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.

Iyokus Patrouette Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 428	Posted - 2015.04.26 22:33:34 - [131] - Quote Laserhawks said things about Hard Knocks Mum, Hard Knocks said things about Isogen 5's Mum, Isogen 5 said things about Prolapses Mum, Prolapse said things about whoever else is in wormhole spaces mum, whoever else said something about someone else's mum, someone else said something about those guys mums. have i created hate and pvp yet? ---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1191	Posted - 2015.04.26 22:41:45 - [132] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: Aimee Arbosa wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: Aimee Arbosa wrote: Watch your tongue erino. I think you mean you are tongue I'd rather be tongue than teeth. And I'm sure you're also glad. Why are we shitting up this thread? This is serious business. I think I've seen a movie that vaguely relates to this before... That feel when a random dusette alt has ******* 500 likes. goddamn RPers "random" "500 likes" Oh you kids. I feel so inadequate when I look at your likes If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Ilaister Absolutely Certain 174	Posted - 2015.04.26 23:45:50 - [133] - Quote This seems nicely done to death. Fremen is a madman for considering handing ideas like that over to a CSM but at least it's sparked a debate. People need to look to themselves to fix highclass PvP - the comments about culture are bang on, mechanics should not be leaned on to fix it. There is a reason many PvP groups are moving, or already have moved, back down to lowclass space. In this humble wormholer's opinion it has very little to do with the blue pretzel. More an unwillingness, (or incabability?) for groups in that space to self-limit themselves. Why should they in a sandbox? Because we end up with threads like these.
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 42887	Posted - 2015.04.26 23:51:57 - [134] - Quote Ilaister wrote: People need to look to themselves to fix highclass PvP - the comments about culture are bang on, mechanics should not be leaned on to fix it. . I couldn't agree more. The problem is though how can anyone change a culture when a) Half of it's subjects don't even recognise it and b) Nobody wants to go to any effort to change how they do things. The culture won't change, even my corporation is in the midst of a move that will take it even deeper into this culture. shrugs I don't like it one bit, and look fondly on the old days when it was every group for themselves (with maybe one or two friendly corps for emergency batphones). But it seems to be just the way it is, the natural evolution of things. I can't see any other solution to the original complaint than a mechanical solution because we wormholers will never be able to change each other's mindset. We can't even discuss a topic without utterly disagreeing. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1191	Posted - 2015.04.27 00:11:01 - [135] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: Ilaister wrote: People need to look to themselves to fix highclass PvP - the comments about culture are bang on, mechanics should not be leaned on to fix it. . I can't see any other solution to the original complaint obviously the only solution is to post If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Ilaister Absolutely Certain 174	Posted - 2015.04.27 00:12:38 - [136] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: Ilaister wrote: People need to look to themselves to fix highclass PvP - the comments about culture are bang on, mechanics should not be leaned on to fix it. . I couldn't agree more. The problem is though how can anyone change a culture when a) Half of it's subjects don't even recognise it and b) Nobody wants to go to any effort to change how they do things. The culture won't change, even my corporation is in the midst of a move that will take it even deeper into this culture. shrugs I don't like it one bit, and look fondly on the old days when it was every group for themselves (with maybe one or two friendly corps for emergency batphones). But it seems to be just the way it is, the natural evolution of things. I can't see any other solution to the original complaint than a mechanical solution because we wormholers will never be able to change each other's mindset. We can't even discuss a topic without utterly disagreeing. You're right. I see the same things and I don't have the answer or I'd still be herding cats in C5 space. I suppose again, at least we are talking about the problem. For me it comes down to leadership. Laziness, burnout and the desire for instant gratification is intractable and draws people to larger groups. Wspace is hard. This is known. You can ask this though; how many CEOs tell their recruiters to switch off the taps (or more likely given normal wspace groups' size, stop themselves) before things get out of control? Strong leadership exists in wspace just as null, but I think it comes down to one thing really. People have to be willing to lose. Accept the risk and embrace it.
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 42890	Posted - 2015.04.27 00:26:04 - [137] - Quote Good points. ^^ Anyway, just wanted to contribute some thoughts that weren't merely bickering and blaming, which seems to be a good 75% of this thread so far lol. Andrew Jester wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: Ilaister wrote: People need to look to themselves to fix highclass PvP - the comments about culture are bang on, mechanics should not be leaned on to fix it. . I can't see any other solution to the original complaint obviously the only solution is to post Obviously. Duh. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1191	Posted - 2015.04.27 00:31:39 - [138] - Quote post for a solution ezpz If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 29103	Posted - 2015.04.27 00:36:14 - [139] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: post for a solution ezpz Easy. You come back to w-space and start a C5 corp. Then everyone will have something to shoot at. Also, I got wed/thur/fri off and will have 5 catalysts standing by. Bob Is Always Watching ... Officially Unofficial Chainsaw DiplomatGäó "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1193	Posted - 2015.04.27 00:43:27 - [140] - Quote I'm going to hope something pops up that we can shoot... May have to scrape the bottom of the barrel tho ;v; If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Accountant O'Death Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2015.04.27 01:04:56 - [141] - Quote I know I know, let's make a corp called "Shoot me, Don't evict me" and then put all of our alts in it. When we need pew we can just go shoot each others alts, problem solved....
Rater Chanlin Antigen. 1	Posted - 2015.04.27 02:28:48 - [142] - Quote Siginek wrote: Raquel Saissore wrote: Siginek wrote: On suggestion of lazerhawks there is created topic about lack of pvp in wormhole and yet, they and their "friends" are main reason of this problem, because they are responsible of end for most groups that could/would provide actual pvp ... and when some pvp comes they just blob everyone ... Right? ... i wonder why cant you find any pvp in high-class wormholes Salty. Maybe don't roll c6 when you know there is a huge op happening, what did you expect to happen, us have the fleet ignore you? If you guys had any logic you would have ignored the connection and waited for us to roll it. As for linking exceptional loses like that doesn't fool anyone that knows what's actually going on in high class wormholes. Yeah ... right ... eviction of another active WH corp ... im sure that will help to improve pvp life in high-class wormholes ... Plenty of active corps out there who just shoot red crosses all day. The argument for not evicting someone is like a game preserve. You just keep them there for your farming convenience. If someone gets more content for themselves out of evicting someone then go ahead and do it. The game isn't about providing content for other people, it is about providing content for you. You can keep the cow to milk it or slaughter the cow.
Peter Moonlight Lazerhawks 149	Posted - 2015.04.27 02:43:19 - [143] - Quote How to fix wh pvp? Simply, make yourself content, and CCP make grinding structures less grinding. https://zkillboard.com/br/37385/ http://puu.sh/hsdDw/45d9cc70fe.jpg gf
fido goran Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 50	Posted - 2015.04.27 02:47:00 - [144] - Quote Still selectively linking things. http://gyazo.com/cdd16eefe048db6ad9f5c4b181c29f5b Check numbers and efficiency.
Peter Moonlight Lazerhawks 149	Posted - 2015.04.27 02:51:24 - [145] - Quote fido goran wrote: Still selectively linking things. http://gyazo.com/cdd16eefe048db6ad9f5c4b181c29f5b Check numbers and efficiency. See capital advantage, bhaalgorns,geddons, +pos on their side and infinite amount of reships and they were reshipping. fido goran wrote: Still selectively linking things. Riiight
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1193	Posted - 2015.04.27 03:02:28 - [146] - Quote see amount involved If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Luft Reich Lazerhawks 72	Posted - 2015.04.27 03:09:04 - [147] - Quote Both KB Links are incomplete. Lost 17 Billion in less than 5 minutes, had a lot of fun. ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
fido goran Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 50	Posted - 2015.04.27 03:31:53 - [148] - Quote Peter Moonlight wrote: fido goran wrote: Still selectively linking things. http://gyazo.com/cdd16eefe048db6ad9f5c4b181c29f5b Check numbers and efficiency. See capital advantage, bhaalgorns,geddons, +pos on their side and infinite amount of reships and they were reshipping. fido goran wrote: Still selectively linking things. Riiight You had 29 legions vs their 5 bhaals/3 geddons. No doubt some of your legions weren't neut fit, but come on. Their 2 tengu's and 1 scorpion vs your 10 tengu's (which I'm willing to bet most/all were ecm) 10 of your guardians, plus 2 archons, vs 5 archons + 1 nid. Yes, they had the capital advantage, but you invaded their home hole, please don't insult your corp by being this stupid.
BayneNothos United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 137	Posted - 2015.04.27 03:42:19 - [149] - Quote I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but I want to put down a thought that's been in my mind for a bit. Namely ragerolling. I'm going to suggest that this is hurting PvP in W space. I've never been a fan of ragerolling because while yes, you do see more system faster than scanning the whole chain out and thus increase the likelyhood you'll find someone active, you're hurting the inverse. You're limiting the places that someone else can merge their chain into yours down to your home system and the static while it's open. A pair of C5>C5 groups ragerolling have a 3 in 512 chance of meeting per rageroll. You into their home, them into your home, you both into the same static. Yes scanning the whole chain down to K space takes more time, but you're increasing the likelihood of an encounter at every system you add in. Exchanging number of dice rolls for higher probability. Now it's been a while since I've hung out with a C5 group so I don't know if that's the way you guys are still finding PvP mainly but if it is, I'm suggesting before we all start screaming CCPlease to the heavens, for all of May, we all give ragerolling up, see if it feels like we're getting more PvP or not. If you're at the end of the chain and there's no new sigs to explore on the way back, sure roll it, but try to keep it open, lets see what comes from it.
Rhavas Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 418	Posted - 2015.04.27 04:02:04 - [150] - Quote corbexx wrote: Firstly I'm still of the opinion that better pve and increasing getting people in to space is the way to increase pvp. The lower class wormholes have all done better since the pve changes along with dual statics of C4. ... The biggest issue I see with pvp in C5 and C6 is that its a player driven issue, not mechanics. Atleast to me, the biggest issue is all the grouping up, which then leads to a vicious circle. Oh they teamed up, we wont fight them, their bound to have friends this time again. etc etc I've spoke to a couple people who are much better at player behaviour and theyall agree this is incrediby hard to change, if its even possible at all. What I'd like is suggestions on how we could maybe increase pvp in the higher class wormholes. What we need are more people, or to be specific more denisty, but I think that dedicated farming corps are becoming too prevalent already and this might make it worse. I wish I had a good idea for how to improve it. I think two things killed C5/6 PVP: 1) Odyssey scanning easy-peasy appearance of new wormholes, and 2) the Hyperion mass/jump changes. I know it won't surprise you to hear me say either, Corbexx. :) I think both of these changes should be reversed. Hidden Fremen wrote: Rewarding PvP active corps (harder to evict). Some Incursion-esque home system bonus. No. If you want these, get a wormhole with an effect. Pulsars in particular, given the wormhole armor meta, increase the turtle factor. Done. Hidden Fremen wrote: Mass:spawn range when jumping wormholes kills small corp PvP tactics. True. Increases non-consensual PvP, but decreases consensual. Reducing the number of wormholes. This would obviously increase encounters between players. Hell yes. Reverse mass/spawn, see above. Frankly it barely makes a difference with the nonconsensual. You want to address that, re-nerf the system scanner (as noted above). On the assumption that he means he means number of wormhole systems, I agree. I think for the population we have, there are simply too many systems. I would support a significant reduction in the number of wormhole systems, which I know is also controversial. More density is good for fights. If he means less actual wormholes (i.e. connections) I think the exact opposite is true - more holes = more traffic. Hidden Fremen wrote: Getting podded into k-space and not in your WH home makes people more risk-averse. Controversial. I completely disagree. This is a critical piece of the wormhole meta that makes it different than other places. It is a key tactical consideration that makes wormhole play unique and should be completely off the table. On the flipside, I think we desperately need a way to deal with implant removal, or clone jumps, WITHIN a hole to enable cheaper clones for specific needs. But only internal to the system, not out of it. Hidden Fremen wrote: Give wormholes stargate treatment in that they appear on overview; no scanning needed. VERY controversial. No, no, and hell no. Go to nullsec if you want that. I advocate the opposite - make them invisible again until they are actually scanned by someone. Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Rhavas Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 418	Posted - 2015.04.27 04:04:16 - [151] - Quote Garr Khan wrote: Wormhole space, but ESPECIALLY C5/C6 space needs more participation by major nullsec entities wishing to establish Wormhole groups; those are the guys who will really bring the pew without the jew (as we see with so many of the stagnant 'major WH corps' littering high-class wormholes these days). Most hilariously terrible idea I've heard all day. Even if Corbexx is a Goon. Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1193	Posted - 2015.04.27 04:21:38 - [152] - Quote fido goran wrote: Peter Moonlight wrote: fido goran wrote: Still selectively linking things. http://gyazo.com/cdd16eefe048db6ad9f5c4b181c29f5b Check numbers and efficiency. See capital advantage, bhaalgorns,geddons, +pos on their side and infinite amount of reships and they were reshipping. fido goran wrote: Still selectively linking things. Riiight Yes, they had the capital advantage, but you invaded their home hole, please don't insult your corp by being this stupid. he can't help it ;v; If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Rhavas Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 419	Posted - 2015.04.27 04:26:41 - [153] - Quote Bleedingthrough wrote: It is the same old story that has been told in so many different ways already and it boils down to: capital escalations. For me they are **** because they encourage a playstyle I dislike and think is harmful for PvP. I completely disagree. Capital escalations force people to bring capital ships out of their POS. This is GOOD for PVP. It is what brings people out with everything they have, the chance at capital ganks. This is also why the mass/jump idea was stupid. We need people to have reasons to risk capitals so that we can eat their tasty killmails. Now, if you want to find a way to make them used out the static, fine. But getting rid all together is a bad idea IMO. Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
Rhavas Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 419	Posted - 2015.04.27 04:35:16 - [154] - Quote Phoenix Jones wrote: But maybe creating a thunderdome using shattered space is needed. I would even go as far as to say as to link them all together. Find a shattered hole. That shattered links to other shattered holes, which link to other shattered holes. So basically you find one shattered. You find them all. You create the mega wspace highway there. Movements easier, there is a definitive roaming area other than kspace. You need to make shattered space worth the travel. Having a shattered highway would help. I'm not entirely sure, but at first blush I don't hate this idea. That's unusual for this thread so far, and thus noteworthy. Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
Iyokus Patrouette Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 430	Posted - 2015.04.27 04:38:57 - [155] - Quote Someone said something about reducing the number of moons in the C5/C6 space. possibly not the worst idea i have heard so far. it helps limit the numbers those holes can sustain. forcing people to spread out more. Even if the corps just occupy a second wormhole, the chances of both entrances being reasonably close to each other are low, This might help limit peoples fear of the 'blob' Even still i don't know how i feel about any of the ideas. To much of the problem is cultural and not mechanics. Hell depending on how the POS changes end up working this whole problem might solve itself. (or become irrelevant as people evac wormhole life) ---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
Rhavas Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 419	Posted - 2015.04.27 04:39:11 - [156] - Quote Jay Joringer wrote: I honestly cannot believe that no one has mentioned some kind of device or structure to stabilize Wormholes yet. First response in the thread was "MOAR NULLSEC DUDES". Same diff. Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
Rhavas Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 419	Posted - 2015.04.27 04:53:51 - [157] - Quote fido goran wrote: Reduce the amount of moons in high class WH's. There will be a hard limit of capitals that can be stored unpiloted in WH's, due to the 1 tower per moon, and limited ship storage space per moon thing. This has the knock on effect of even the largest 300 man alliance only has a limited amount of capitals for use in home defense (or more if they decide to commit holding characters to log off in spares) hopefully encouraging more all in fleets, even against established holes. It may also encourage the breaking up of larger corps/alliances into more holes/other corps, due to space issues in their home. First actual creative, smart approach I've seen in this thread. Welcome back Fido. Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
Rhavas Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 419	Posted - 2015.04.27 04:58:16 - [158] - Quote Kellie Dusette wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: Kellie Dusette wrote: Help They GotMyMoney wrote: Post with you're main. your. you're Kellie explain for you, little body, big heart. "Jester, your face!" "Jester, you're an ass!" You can for see now this one make a different? Even Kellie for know of this, and Kellie for struggle very many much with a talk. Fly a Buzzard. This may help. Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
BayneNothos United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 137	Posted - 2015.04.27 05:00:18 - [159] - Quote Other random thoughts: Removing systems: I don't know how you'd go about this. If you start clearing out vacant, as in no pilots logged out no online pos's, how many would you actually drop. How does it work between when CCP figures that out and when they actually cull the systems? What if someone moves in to a system during that time. What if by some freak chance a famous system just happens to meet those requirements at the time? Is everyone ok losing a Nova or Polaris to the cull? If wew're just dropping random systems, are you fine waking up tomorrow in HS. I'm sure everyone is assuming that it'd just be vacants or at worst bear holes but what if it's SSC or HK? You guys fine getting kicked to the curb? Personally I feel like Phoenix Jones has the better idea, more connections. Straight up triple every shattered WH static connection. Go remove all anomalies that aren't WH's from them so you don't have to scan through a hundred data's to find them and they'd become a nice transit system. More connections make the universe smaller. Cloning back home: An ok idea if done right, but won't help the bigger groups but will lower the bar for smaller groups. I'm thinking like a POS module, takes up as much resources as a SMA or CHA or something. Holds 2 clones and the creation of the clones is a big industrial task like making T3 bits. Clones have to be set to particular toon and don't become available until the POS takes its next fuel sip, like gas refining works. This stops people injecting the clone and heading out straight away. This should give smaller groups (<5 humans) a way to get back home safely. Personally I feel a lot of us take for granted how easy it is to get back home when you have a lot of peeps in system or a lot of scan alts logged out. Hopefully it'd change the PvP thinking from "If I lose, I lose my ship, probably my pod, maybe my whole POS and all the work I've done up till now" to "Ok just the ship, probably the pod and I"ll have to make a new return clone."
Accountant O'Death Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2015.04.27 05:01:37 - [160] - Quote Rhavas wrote: Phoenix Jones wrote: But maybe creating a thunderdome using shattered space is needed. I would even go as far as to say as to link them all together. Find a shattered hole. That shattered links to other shattered holes, which link to other shattered holes. So basically you find one shattered. You find them all. You create the mega wspace highway there. Movements easier, there is a definitive roaming area other than kspace. You need to make shattered space worth the travel. Having a shattered highway would help. I'm not entirely sure, but at first blush I don't hate this idea. That's unusual for this thread so far, and thus noteworthy. Not necessarily a bad idea but linking them "all" together probably wouldn't work.Maybe linking them together in 3-5 system clusters with "sleeper" stargates would be interesting.

Kellie Dusette Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin 9636	Posted - 2015.04.27 05:22:02 - [161] - Quote Rhavas wrote: Kellie Dusette wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: Kellie Dusette wrote: Help They GotMyMoney wrote: Post with you're main. your. you're Kellie explain for you, little body, big heart. "Jester, your face!" "Jester, you're an ass!" You can for see now this one make a different? Even Kellie for know of this, and Kellie for struggle very many much with a talk. Fly a Buzzard. This may help. Very many much hello Mista Rhavas. Kellie for think no amount for help can help this Jester. Him a basket of case, many disturb for disorder in mind. Kellie look at him think maybe for disorder body too. Not for very often Kellie meet capsuleer as small as Kellie. Thank you for help and a post of link. Kellie especially for think this part very many much funny. Kellie spit out this iced coffee when see, look like a that panda. Collect all 3 Dusette Sets (Now available in Thukker Tribe Edition) Basic Edition \| Catcember Edition \| Forum Edition
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 160	Posted - 2015.04.27 05:35:07 - [162] - Quote Why is no one burning out the pve corps in c5-c6 space? Can someone answer me that? No local in null sec would fix everything!
Iyokus Patrouette Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 430	Posted - 2015.04.27 05:41:01 - [163] - Quote unimatrix0030 wrote: Why is no one burning out the pve corps in c5-c6 space? Can someone answer me that? who can be ****** with the EHP grind involved. especially when the end is just watching them self destruct all the goodies before the shield goes down. ---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
BayneNothos United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 137	Posted - 2015.04.27 05:57:04 - [164] - Quote unimatrix0030 wrote: Why is no one burning out the pve corps in c5-c6 space? Can someone answer me that? Serious question, how does that get more PvP in W Space? Are you suggesting that there's hundreds of groups out there who'd love to move in and PvP but can't because there's PvE corps stopping them from setting up? I'd rather see a bear hole than a vacant one. There's at least the possibility to pew something that way.
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 638	Posted - 2015.04.27 07:49:29 - [165] - Quote Rhavas wrote: Odyssey scanning easy-peasy appearance of new wormholes We've been asking to add some delay to this K162-automagic appearance crap for well over a year. And there has been absolutely no reaction whatsoever. W-Space Realtor
Jezza McWaffle The Projects Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 195	Posted - 2015.04.27 08:29:19 - [166] - Quote Reading some of the thoughts already posted I do agree with some of them: 1 - Decreasing the number of existing C5 Wormholes (maybe C6 as well) as currently 512 of them is ridiculous. 2 - Giving dual statics of which at least of them is to C5 or C6 space (so people cant just farm low class WH's with escalation ISK) 3 - Reduce the number of gas sites and decrease the time they last unspawned, especially in shattered space so you don't have to scan through 40 ******* sigs 4 - Roll back on the K162 and jump range mechanics Some extra thoughts: - Increase the chance of connecting to an active/occupied system which can be measured in NPC kills, amount of POS's, amount of kills and amount of individual jumps out of or into the system. Make it a small chance of rolling into an active system so your home hole doesnt always connect but the larger your C5 or C6 chain then the higher the chance of a connection. - Remove escalations entirely but increase the payout fairly significantly and also the difficulty so that both solo marauder is not effective and you have a reason for committing a Dread or Carrier outside of the escalation to just finish the site quicker or maybe with less people. C6 Wormhole blog http://holelotofwaffle.wordpress.com/
Papa Django Solitude Freelancer 100	Posted - 2015.04.27 09:42:18 - [167] - Quote corbexx wrote: Reducing the number of wormholes. This would obviously increase encounters between players. K-Space : - HS 1212 systems - LS 695 systems - NS 3294 systems W-Space : - 2498 systems + 101 shattered = 2599 systems. There is too many wormhole systems. I have run a low class wh corp for a 1 year, it is really hard to find pvp. Most of the time you probe 4 hours and only find some venture in belt or gas sig. There is also a lot of empty systems. My opinion is : - Each week at downtime, CCP should check every wormhole system, if there is no online POS and no pilot log off in, close all actives connexions and just put a boolean on that system and use it to keep it closed. No K162 should pop in that wormhole -> wormhole system -=1. With this system we could increase player density slowly. And wormhole corps could increase density by evicting renters and PI alts corps (there is a large part of low class occupied wh with only alt PI, they do nothing and should be evicted). And if density get too high, (CCP) simply release some empty wormhole in the needed class. This could fix a lot of issues with a simple way. It keep the things dynamics. Let's says Bob changes the accessibility of Anoikis.
Pissfat Reverse Production 104	Posted - 2015.04.27 09:47:42 - [168] - Quote To all the people wanting less C5 Wh's. GTFO seriously look how well that has worked in C6 space. Why did all those C6 corps move down to C5 space to then want the problems C6 space had because of reliable rage rolling. I am Winthorp you might remember me from such films as i got CCP to make signature ID's persistent through DT for their love of AU bros.
Jez Amatin Enso Corp Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 67	Posted - 2015.04.27 10:01:20 - [169] - Quote BayneNothos wrote: Other random thoughts: Personally I feel like Phoenix Jones has the better idea, more connections. Straight up triple every shattered WH static connection. Go remove all anomalies that aren't WH's from them so you don't have to scan through a hundred data's to find them and they'd become a nice transit system. More connections make the universe smaller. adding shattered holes wasnt a good idea. just like thera becoming jita of wspace wasnt a great idea... just like frig holes wasnt a good idea... yesterday i scanned a shattered hole with some 40 odd signatures, most of em gas sites. im only just coming back from a period away from game, and to be blunt this makes me think wtf. its good to have a discussion. but theres a lot of bad ideas being flung around, and the usual poop flinging but mostly its the way ppl choose to play along with some bad decisions from ccp in recent patches.
Dizzy Uzzy The Projects Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 41	Posted - 2015.04.27 10:26:11 - [170] - Quote This thread is ********. The only way you can increase PVP is by going out and looking for it. You can't cry at HK and LZHX for their willingness to go out and find targets. Whilst they're going out looking for things to shoot a lot of corps are sitting around with their hands up their ass waiting for someone to roll into them. In a C4 without capital ganks we're killing 90-100b a month, in the short time we've been in C4 space. That's more than a lot of "notable" C5 corps/alliances. Last month we had about 16k signatures scanned. Try shipping into something other than armor t3 and get off your arses, you may find some fights.

Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 706	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:11:03 - [171] - Quote The ideas in the OP are bad. Except maybe that characters could be allowed to respawn in a pos module in a wormhole, albeit with a reasonable delay. For example a player could choose to respawn in his home system but has to accept that his character will be stuck in a limbo for maybe 2 hours. This way podding someone out would still eliminate them from the current engagent but the podded player can later return without the hassle of travelling back from hisec. Most players will compensate the limbo time by switching to an alt. As for more pvp between big groups where everyone expects the others to have more backup, I guess only a mechanism to enforce roughly equal firepower on the field would make a noticable difference. What about establishing a cap to effectiveness of RR or even regular weapons. Say, if a ship is repaired by more than two or three Logistics, every additional logistics ship gets a harsh penalty to effectiveness of repairs, so that the fifth or sixth repair ship has basically no effect anymore. Similarly, if more than 10 ships unload weapons onto the same target ship, every additional ship gets a penalty to damage. The lore explanation would be pretty straightforward: If several Guardians are already patching up a ship's armor, any additional repairer has a hard time still finding a spot on the target's armor where its nanobots can be effectively applied without interference from another repairer's nanobot beam. As for damage penalties, they simulate the increased difficulties of coordination and effective placement of shots when many attackers are on the field. The effect would be a more or less hard limit on engagement sizes. Drastic, and maybe a little against the traditional EVE philosophy, but whatever. To accomodate different player needs, the limits could be dependent on system class, and only exist at all in wormhole space, because obviously something like this will never be acceptable in nullsec strategic blob warfare. Personally I don't really care. More players currently in c5/6 should leave the wh empire bandwaggon and form smaller groups in c2-4. .
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 160	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:18:30 - [172] - Quote Iyokus Patrouette wrote: who can be ****** with the EHP grind involved. especially when the end is just watching them self destruct all the goodies before the shield goes down. Good point maybe we should add not being able to selfdistruct in the pos shields to the list , i forgot about that one. No local in null sec would fix everything!
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1290	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:22:42 - [173] - Quote Axloth Okiah wrote: Rhavas wrote: Odyssey scanning easy-peasy appearance of new wormholes We've been asking to add some delay to this K162-automagic appearance crap for well over a year. And there has been absolutely no reaction whatsoever. There was a very large argument regarding this a year ago. The so called hole delay. It was ultimately determined that doing some type of delay punishes the target and gives ultimate power to the rage roller. If a hole pops and I see it, I have a chance of getting away. This invisible hole punishes too much the player who can't see it nor detect it even with probes and scouts. It is too much of a pure gank setup and doesn't give the target any choice for recourse. It's been asked by CCP to us, the community said no. Yaay!!!!
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 160	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:24:59 - [174] - Quote BayneNothos wrote: Serious question, how does that get more PvP in W Space? Are you suggesting that there's hundreds of groups out there who'd love to move in and PvP but can't because there's PvE corps stopping them from setting up? I'd rather see a bear hole than a vacant one. There's at least the possibility to pew something that way. It used to be fight or you would get evicted. Wich lead to more people fighting and less boring evictions. sure you had your grudge evictions but generaly if you pewed you did not get evicted. Now by eviction the pvp corps there are less targets to be killed wich did fight. Is it any wonder that there is a lack of fight then? If you leave alone the pve corps who don't give you content and evict those that give content who is to blame? So if people who evict pvp corps/alliances call eviction content then they should start doing that to pve corps/alliances since by their own definition it is content. But in any case the more people in w-space the bether. Lowering number of systems would only make things worse as reinforcements will get there easier meaning that would be an advantage for bigger coalitions. No local in null sec would fix everything!
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 638	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:37:32 - [175] - Quote Phoenix Jones wrote: Axloth Okiah wrote: Rhavas wrote: Odyssey scanning easy-peasy appearance of new wormholes We've been asking to add some delay to this K162-automagic appearance crap for well over a year. And there has been absolutely no reaction whatsoever. There was a very large argument regarding this a year ago. The so called hole delay. It was ultimately determined that doing some type of delay punishes the target and gives ultimate power to the rage roller. If a hole pops and I see it, I have a chance of getting away. This invisible hole punishes too much the player who can't see it nor detect it even with probes and scouts. It is too much of a pure gank setup and doesn't give the target any choice for recourse. It's been asked by CCP to us, the community said no. The delay would apply to the overlay, not to probes. Right now, you get an automatic warning that someone jumped into your system even before he loads grid. If the overlay had delay, you would at least need to have probes out and click scan. W-Space Realtor
BayneNothos United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 137	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:49:43 - [176] - Quote Jez Amatin wrote: adding shattered holes wasnt a good idea. just like thera becoming jita of wspace wasnt a great idea... just like frig holes wasnt a good idea... yesterday i scanned a shattered hole with some 40 odd signatures, most of em gas sites. im only just coming back from a period away from game, and to be blunt this makes me think wtf. its good to have a discussion. but theres a lot of bad ideas being flung around, and the usual poop flinging but mostly its the way ppl choose to play along with some bad decisions from ccp in recent patches. I don't mind Thera as it's glorified K space, not W Space. But yah the shattered WH's never needed to exist, it's an interesting thought but hasn't worked so far. Far as I'm concerned, when I see a shattered WH, it's a K space exit and I stop there precisely because of the anom spam in them. When it comes down to it though CCP isn't going to remove any space anywhere, it won't happen. So finding ways to make those bad areas better should be the plan. I vaguely remember CCP Fozzie saying he expected to see these systems as neutral grounds for fights between groups. Whelp oki then, change them so they're like that, no one is scanning out a hundred sigs in these places to find the wh's so remove all but the wh's. Add more statics in them so there's more routes through and more people will search them out.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1195	Posted - 2015.04.27 12:12:57 - [177] - Quote Rhavas wrote: Kellie Dusette wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: Kellie Dusette wrote: Help They GotMyMoney wrote: Post with you're main. your. you're Kellie explain for you, little body, big heart. "Jester, your face!" "Jester, you're an ass!" You can for see now this one make a different? Even Kellie for know of this, and Kellie for struggle very many much with a talk. Fly a Buzzard. This may help. This may help you If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 958	Posted - 2015.04.27 12:13:57 - [178] - Quote Phew, what a long read. Here's what I see. Some of the bigger corps are complaining that there is a lack of content. We get this huge thread about how to fix wh. There are a lot of ideas that have varying levels of merit, a few slap fights and some truely horrible ideas. I think a few corps have outgrown the current wh mechanics. Mass limits are just that - limits. A wh will only support so many folks. There are a few current options out there. HK sublets pve holes for alts and focuses on pvp w/ the main wh. Seems like a sound solution at first. More guys in the main corp and cut out the pve stuff to keep with the main task of fighting. The plan is solid until you look at the low number of valid opponents. They have a good plan and adaptive leadership, BUT still not happy. WH space doesn't currently support what they want to do. If just doesn't. I'm just using HK because that's where the thread started and they have actulally tried diffent things (in lieu of just whine that wh space sux). There are other corps in the same bracket. I think in the end, after everything is said and done... some corps are over the size limit that current wh mechanics can support (by support I mean both isk-wise and fun-wise). So here we are. I personally don't think wh mechanics (because they are pretty awesome) should be changed much if at all because a few groups by thier own choosing outgrew them. It's still pretty awesome for all the other folks. I'm not really of the "screw them and their big corps" mentallity either. Do I prefer small and advocate small.... heck yeah. So what can be done? Make C7 wh. Make them monsters. Give them lots of moons. Give them dual statics. Static 1 is always to another c7. Give that connection liberal mass limits. NO SUPERS in wh space, but a c7/c7 connection that supports dropping 6 caps through it. You can put 3 in and get them back OR you can go all in and drop the fleet through. Make the second static any of the other flavors of wh. Make the c7 limited in number. This will give large groups that want to do wh pvp on a large scale a place to be big and do big things. The other details (amount of effect bonus and such) can be hashed out by the numbers nerds. WH space is awesome. It's been awesome and should stay awesome. Null went down the path of catering to a few big folks and changing sov mechanics for all. It didn't go so well. I'd hate to see that happen in wh space. I see the C7 that I've roughed out above as a reasonable solution that doesn't **** up the rest of WH space that we love and is working as intended. Some groups want a big battle ground - so give it to them. I don't think wonking one of the funnest areas of the game for a few big entities is a success path. TL/DR Give the big guys what they want and leave the rest of the wh space we love in tact.
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1290	Posted - 2015.04.27 12:17:28 - [179] - Quote Axloth Okiah wrote: Phoenix Jones wrote: Axloth Okiah wrote: Rhavas wrote: Odyssey scanning easy-peasy appearance of new wormholes We've been asking to add some delay to this K162-automagic appearance crap for well over a year. And there has been absolutely no reaction whatsoever. There was a very large argument regarding this a year ago. The so called hole delay. It was ultimately determined that doing some type of delay punishes the target and gives ultimate power to the rage roller. If a hole pops and I see it, I have a chance of getting away. This invisible hole punishes too much the player who can't see it nor detect it even with probes and scouts. It is too much of a pure gank setup and doesn't give the target any choice for recourse. It's been asked by CCP to us, the community said no. The delay would apply to the overlay, not to probes. Right now, you get an automatic warning that someone jumped into your system even before he loads grid. If the overlay had delay, you would at least need to have probes out and click scan. Which wouldn't help c5 or c6 space as with any crew doing sites, they drop probes and probe scan every 5 seconds to find new holes (been there, that was the default action of my old crew once they crushed their static, drop probes, 1 guys job to repeatedly hit probe scan to find any new holes). We're not really discussing the merit of the wormhole sigs showing up. Is it a factor in the discussion, probably, but it is not the catalyst or the solution (I even hate that sigs show up automatically as it caters to the lazy). I'm not against it, I'm just saying that the fight was had, and probably can be had again.... Just this isn't the thread to have that fight (as this affects ALL of wspace and kspace). The focus is on c5 and c6 space. I'm not disagreeing with you (I hate how they show up also), but its a different battle to whats going on here. Yaay!!!!
Pound Cakeee Khights Of Megiddo 0	Posted - 2015.04.27 12:22:21 - [180] - Quote We shouldn't be trying to increase PVP only to PVP. We should be promoting a "build something great" mindset and then eventually someone will take over. If you promote PVP you get people who all they want to do is throw blobs and someone and that's just a terrible way to play. Play Eve to Create. If in that course you must take action and destroy so be it.... But don't PVP mercilessly.

Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1292	Posted - 2015.04.27 12:25:40 - [181] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Make C7 wh. Make them monsters. Give them lots of moons. Give them dual statics. Static 1 is always to another c7. Give that connection liberal mass limits. NO SUPERS in wh space, but a c7/c7 connection that supports dropping 6 caps through it. You can put 3 in and get them back OR you can go all in and drop the fleet through. Make the second static any of the other flavors of wh. Make the c7 limited in number. This will give large groups that want to do wh pvp on a large scale a place to be big and do big things. The other details (amount of effect bonus and such) can be hashed out by the numbers nerds. CCP theoretically has that opportunity currently with the Shattered Wormholes. Its pretty much a completely new and open space which they could "cater and create" the content needed to handle large wspace groups. There is a finite amount of people that can really handle 1 wormhole before they either split apart or leave. Every Large Wspace Alliance entity has hit that mark. They outnumber and outgun whoever they run into and pretty much complain about dead content because nobody can really have a outright brawl with them at a moments notice (the 5 cruisers at the sun is merely a fun stopgap). This was going on in 2012 (this is hardly new, the names have simply changed). Wspace mechanics are fine for the most part, but the space needs to be expanded, NOT contracted. I think the Shattered Systems can hold the solution to that (because they are essentially untouched, and can be modified and changed with little to zero blow-back from the community. A solution? I don't have it. I see an opportunity, a rare one that hasn't existed in wspace for the past 5 years. Its evolving with the storyline, and CCP has the chance to make a totally new method of sandbox play in wspace to help with the pvp stagnation of c5 and c6 space. That is how I see it. Any change to wspace itself will be met with A TON of criticism (as merely the topic of this thread has caused). So instead, I would look towards what has not been used and see what can be done to make the game play go there. Yaay!!!!
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 961	Posted - 2015.04.27 13:03:18 - [182] - Quote The difference between shattered (which are struggling to find a place) and C7 as proposed is pretty large. C7 w/ moons means folks can move in. They can be evicted. They can build and that can then be destroyed. Shattered are just multi connected battlegrounds that really aren't being used that much. If I've leaned anything over the past decade (more or less) it's that adding more PVE plus signs has never improved the game. Oh I get that they are needed, but they don't make the game better. When I say game I'm referring to pvp (epic fight, hauler gank at a customs office, ganking a pve fleet). Red Plus Signs DO NOT make better content. PVE is a means to isk. The eve community is smart enough as a whole to disect any pve that CCP lays at our feet and post a guide for by the end of the week. Red plus signs are not the answer to more fun. Just as any new PVE will be mastered quickly, any change to pve that 'drives conflict' or 'creates content' will also quickly be broken down and 'safe farming' will be mastered. It's what we do folks, and we're good at it. Moving farming to the static will more than likely add as much content to the game as the mass/range change did. Another thought w/ C7 wh. All the good, marginal and outright terrible ideas that have been put forth in this thread can all, any or not be implimented in them. It would be an empty canvas. Go nuts CCP - create. And it's create on the cheap I would think. Just add a few systems and optimize them for large wh groups. The mandatory c7/c7 connection would be the key to conflict. It would make a c7 honey hole not possible. You can even throw in some cool extra benefit for being there (and I personally don't care what that would be).
Accountant O'Death Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2015.04.27 15:24:12 - [183] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: The difference between shattered (which are struggling to find a place) and C7 as proposed is pretty large. C7 w/ moons means folks can move in. They can be evicted. They can build and that can then be destroyed. Shattered are just multi connected battlegrounds that really aren't being used that much. If I've leaned anything over the past decade (more or less) it's that adding more PVE plus signs has never improved the game. Oh I get that they are needed, but they don't make the game better. When I say game I'm referring to pvp (epic fight, hauler gank at a customs office, ganking a pve fleet). Red Plus Signs DO NOT make better content. PVE is a means to isk. The eve community is smart enough as a whole to disect any pve that CCP lays at our feet and post a guide for by the end of the week. Red plus signs are not the answer to more fun. Just as any new PVE will be mastered quickly, any change to pve that 'drives conflict' or 'creates content' will also quickly be broken down and 'safe farming' will be mastered. It's what we do folks, and we're good at it. Moving farming to the static will more than likely add as much content to the game as the mass/range change did. Another thought w/ C7 wh. All the good, marginal and outright terrible ideas that have been put forth in this thread can all, any or not be implimented in them. It would be an empty canvas. Go nuts CCP - create. And it's create on the cheap I would think. Just add a few systems and optimize them for large wh groups. The mandatory c7/c7 connection would be the key to conflict. It would make a c7 honey hole not possible. You can even throw in some cool extra benefit for being there (and I personally don't care what that would be). C7 space interesting; CCP should only add 5 and give them all 50 moons so those meanie weanie c5 and c6 bullies can fight over them using some sort of hybrid null sov ****.
Obil Que Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance 235	Posted - 2015.04.27 15:38:22 - [184] - Quote Phoenix Jones wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Make C7 wh. Make them monsters. Give them lots of moons. Give them dual statics. Static 1 is always to another c7. Give that connection liberal mass limits. NO SUPERS in wh space, but a c7/c7 connection that supports dropping 6 caps through it. You can put 3 in and get them back OR you can go all in and drop the fleet through. Make the second static any of the other flavors of wh. Make the c7 limited in number. This will give large groups that want to do wh pvp on a large scale a place to be big and do big things. The other details (amount of effect bonus and such) can be hashed out by the numbers nerds. CCP theoretically has that opportunity currently with the Shattered Wormholes. Its pretty much a completely new and open space which they could "cater and create" the content needed to handle large wspace groups. There is a finite amount of people that can really handle 1 wormhole before they either split apart or leave. Every Large Wspace Alliance entity has hit that mark. They outnumber and outgun whoever they run into and pretty much complain about dead content because nobody can really have a outright brawl with them at a moments notice (the 5 cruisers at the sun is merely a fun stopgap). This was going on in 2012 (this is hardly new, the names have simply changed). Wspace mechanics are fine for the most part, but the space needs to be expanded, NOT contracted. I think the Shattered Systems can hold the solution to that (because they are essentially untouched, and can be modified and changed with little to zero blow-back from the community. A solution? I don't have it. I see an opportunity, a rare one that hasn't existed in wspace for the past 5 years. Its evolving with the storyline, and CCP has the chance to make a totally new method of sandbox play in wspace to help with the pvp stagnation of c5 and c6 space. That is how I see it. Any change to wspace itself will be met with A TON of criticism (as merely the topic of this thread has caused). So instead, I would look towards what has not been used and see what can be done to make the game play go there. I completely agree here. I had an idea at one point for a kind of "hyperspace" that linked to w-space but was, in itself, super-connected. Shattered space could very well fill this role. The one difference or differentiation that I had was that this hyperspace contained some kind of resource that was desirable in both a PvE and PvP context making it something to be fought over. With the advent of the Entosis link, it actually plays quite nicely into this idea. Using a similar capture mechanism, these resources could be harvested/owned by w-space entities while providing contact points for combat. What this resource actually gets used for could be quite varied. One idea could be to remove boosting entirely from w-space while implementing this and require this resource to be the "fuel" for boosts either system wide (using a structure benefitting PvE) or fleet wide (PvP). There could be plenty of others including fuel for new T3 modules, etc. etc. I think this had the potential to benefit all of w-space while also giving it something unique to fight over. low-sec has faction warfare, null-sec has sov, but w-space lacks something specifically driving conflict other than the inherent social drive. Give people some kind of incentive to be out in space more and you'll find the fights naturally follow.
KIAGumpy Free Throbbing Veinal Penii For Spacmens 0	Posted - 2015.04.27 15:59:58 - [185] - Quote Vote in a CSM who actually lives in wormhole space not a goon pet.
Angrod Losshelin Oath of the Forsaken Half Massed 114	Posted - 2015.04.27 16:54:59 - [186] - Quote Honestly, there are only a few people complaining about WH PVP that I know of. I think W-space is in a good spot right now, but some groups who have grown too large complain that no one wants to fight a blob. Well....no **... take a note from NoHo and split up and fight each other if this is an issue. I don't want to see anything make it easier for large groups to form and dominate everyone else. Current w-space allows for large groups and promotes banding together, which is fine, but it also means not many will fight them because they have alot more members to throw around and its more difficult to bring friends in. I don't blame large groups for growing large and using all of their members, because I totally would and I would say anyone who says otherwise is lying to a degree. However, it is also up to these groups to cull their own members or split up if they "fall victim to their own success" I like the current WH meta and would prefer to keep it than change it but if CCP can put in some cool new mechanics that make smaller groups more viable than large ones I am open to it. IDK, we see plenty of PVP, more is always better but not when we get outnumbered every single fight. We hide from those people for obvious reasons. If they want to bring smaller groups in we fight them just like anyone, but alot of groups like Lazer have a reputation within my group as "don't fight them they'll kick your trash everytime with overwhelming numbers" so we don't we don't like losing only to placate large groups and I don't think anyone does. I don't think Lazer or HK would like it any better if a full BL or PL fleet invaded their home and they couldn't call in any backup. They would get blobbed and *** just like anyone else. Either way, I think people are just victims of their own success and need to get over it. Then again, I have never been that successful so I rarely run into that issue. Check out my Podcast! My Blog!
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 638	Posted - 2015.04.27 17:16:54 - [187] - Quote Lets learn a lesson from the terribleness of C6 space. It sucks because it is too small and it is too easy to hit specific hole - both for offense and defense. Removing C5s or making a new, even smaller C7 space would be even worse. The solution might lie in the shattered holes, as was said before. Nerf "home" income, force people to farm other holes, make shattereds more profitable and more likely to get connected to. They should be the "gold mines" we might want to access by leaving the isolated safety of our homes and which also attract those who'd like to kill us. Make farming homesites and expos much less profitable, lets get rich by farming where it would actually be risky. W-Space Realtor
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1198	Posted - 2015.04.27 17:31:28 - [188] - Quote Angrod Losshelin wrote: Honestly, there are only a few people complaining about WH PVP that I know of. I think W-space is in a good spot right now. stop talking in a mirror If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Angrod Losshelin Oath of the Forsaken Half Massed 115	Posted - 2015.04.27 17:46:24 - [189] - Quote Axloth Okiah wrote: Lets learn a lesson from the terribleness of C6 space. It sucks because it is too small and it is too easy to hit specific hole - both for offense and defense. Removing C5s or making a new, even smaller C7 space would be even worse. The solution might lie in the shattered holes, as was said before. Nerf "home" income, force people to farm other holes, make shattereds more profitable and more likely to get connected to. They should be the "gold mines" we might want to access by leaving the isolated safety of our homes and which also attract those who'd like to kill us. Make farming homesites and expos much less profitable, lets get rich by farming where it would actually be risky. I am Angrod and I approve of both of these messages. Check out my Podcast! My Blog!
HTC NecoSino No Vacancies Lost Alliance 207	Posted - 2015.04.27 18:04:01 - [190] - Quote KIAGumpy wrote: Vote in a CSM who actually lives in wormhole space not a goon pet. #RecallCorbexx As for PvP content in WH space, it does seem to be a lot lower than this time last year. I've been having a lot of luck in lower-class WHs though, even if it's just harassing locals to try to get them to come fight me.

unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 160	Posted - 2015.04.27 18:11:48 - [191] - Quote Would it work if you add those big holes in the c7 idea be added to c6 space? Would be a lot easier for ccp and might give the same effect? No local in null sec would fix everything!
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2259	Posted - 2015.04.28 00:11:41 - [192] - Quote Jack Hayson wrote: High class needs more connectivity. (and by that I don't mean those useless frig holes) When I think about why we (Ixtab) left our C5 for a C4 it's mostly the better connectivity of the dual static and low class in general. From our C5 the chains would often look like Home->empty C5-> empty C5->C3->HS*, where as our C4 chains now look more like this (which isn't even scanned down completely because people were lazy that day^^). i agree with this point. C4 space is where it's at for OCD probe addicts. The example image you give, above, is weak and pathetic chain. We regularly have double that amount of systems in our chain. But guess what? Most times it's all empty space. Lack of fights is not solely a problem in C5-C6 space. The new fozziesov POS mechanics could help promote more activity, if done right. I've blogged recently about the potential problems i see with it, and made comments on the relevant threads, but as it stands right now content in w-space is either arranged fights - which i tend to avoid because it's mostly " Wait for it...we aren't ready...wait for it....wait for it...oh hey here's our batphone! Or we just pinged jabber and 20 other dudes logged in and we reshipped to hard counter you!" - or prompting fights and batphone bonanza by beginning a siege. Reputedly the weekend's LZHX + HK fleet, after dunking their dreads on a Snigg-powered batphone, got sick of structure grinding in subs and extracted because the batphones kept ringing and people kept turning up to fight them. Also, they had made their point and got their fight, and it was a pretty good fight from the looks of it. Well, at least a lot of capitals died and then it was mass-guardian stalemate subcap folkdancing pointlessness thereafter. So that's always the problem. You have to threaten the enemy to get a fight. Putting a timer on someone via RFing a POS is about the most absolute a threat as you can give someone in w-space. In C5-C6 space you can use dreads, which greatly assist in reducing POS defences. But in C1-4 space you're stuck using subcaps and some POS's are just too boring to attack without a really good sore buttock to propel the effort. if you can somehow maintain hermetic hole control to deny the batphone you don't often get a fight, but if you can't maintain hole control, often what looks like 16 guys swiftly turns into 80+, like some disastrous siege we were invited along to attend on the weekend. So, the problem is both mechanical and cultural. There's a mechanic lacking to force content on people. In lowsec and nullsec the moon goo cash machines act as a conflict driver. One R64 moon can provide billions of ISK income for zero real effort (or close to zero) for a whole alliance. Other alliances covet it, and hence conflict. In w-space the only resources which are unequal are system effects and moon count, given static choice is as much about farming and k-space luxury as anything else. So, basically, W-R's and Magnetars in high-class, followed by Pulsars for low-end farmers (fools, income is in your static). C4 Cats are the domain of Russians, who deploy stronk domiballs. And that's it, aside from mentioning how unpopulated E545/N060 Class 2's are, generally, and K346 C3's. Most C5-6 Mags, Pulsars and Wolfs are already farm holes or owned and inhabited, and so heavily fortified it's laughable. C4 space is a bastion in and of itself because it's low-class no-caps but people tend to not be disorganised cowards, and aside from that there's enough empty space that no one needs to fight, and there's no free income, and sieges are so fraught and prolonged and prone to the cultural problems.....yeah, conflict is lacking. If statics choice, effects and moon limits aren't enough to provoke conflict, then the only solution would be to add in income fountains which alliance-level people could covet and want and thus recreate the R64 mafia in w-space. Which would basically just entrench the current players at the expense of everyone else. Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014. Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1198	Posted - 2015.04.28 00:23:53 - [193] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: There's a mechanic lacking to force content on people. In lowsec and nullsec the moon goo cash machines act as a conflict driver. One R64 moon can provide billions of ISK income for zero real effort (or close to zero) for a whole alliance. this isn't really that true tbh, or rather not as big of a conflict driver as you'd think. If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Dani Dusette Isogen 5 6510	Posted - 2015.04.28 00:24:03 - [194] - Quote HTC NecoSino wrote: KIAGumpy wrote: Vote in a CSM who actually lives in wormhole space not a goon pet. #RecallCorbexx. I'm still waiting for Chance Ravine to weigh in on this. Mizhir: "Dani Dusette, Best Dusette" Samoth Egnoled: "Make sure you turn yourself often and bathe in your own juices." ISD Ezwal: "Might I inform you that I am as real as it gets?"
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1198	Posted - 2015.04.28 00:45:43 - [195] - Quote Dani Dusette wrote: HTC NecoSino wrote: KIAGumpy wrote: Vote in a CSM who actually lives in wormhole space not a goon pet. #RecallCorbexx. I'm still waiting for Chance Ravine to weigh in on this. keep dreaming dreamer If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2259	Posted - 2015.04.28 01:07:42 - [196] - Quote He's only 2 minutes in to a 30 minute spree of staring at a Retriever wondering if it's bait before attacking it and discovering it is actually AFK. Give him time. Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014. Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Adriana Nolen Sama Guild 90	Posted - 2015.04.28 04:13:03 - [197] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: He's only 2 minutes in to a 30 minute spree of staring at a Retriever wondering if it's bait before attacking it and discovering it is actually AFK. Give him time. Thank you for inspiring me to create a new idea thread.
Na'hkin Oaks Conquering Darkness 1	Posted - 2015.04.28 06:29:42 - [198] - Quote corbexx wrote: So I've had some one ask for me to look in to how we can try to increase pvp in the higher class wormholes and who was also worried that I was spending to much time sorting pve out for w space. Firstly I'm still of the opinion that better pve and increasing getting people in to space is the way to increase pvp. The lower class wormholes have all done better since the pve changes along with dual statics of C4. The biggest issue I see with pvp in C5 and C6 is that its a player driven issue, not mechanics. Atleast to me, the biggest issue is all the grouping up, which then leads to a vicious circle. Oh they teamed up, we wont fight them, their bound to have friends this time again. etc etc I've spoke to a couple people who are much better at player behaviour and theyall agree this is incrediby hard to change, if its even possible at all. What I'd like is suggestions on how we could maybe increase pvp in the higher class wormholes. Hidden fremen has already asked some people in his corp and he's sent me a list of some ideas, some admittingly controversial. I'll list them below and keep this updated as more people suggest ideas. Ideals from Hidden Fremen and Lazerhawks Rewarding PvP active corps (harder to evict). Some Incursion-esque home system bonus. Mass:spawn range when jumping wormholes kills small corp PvP tactics. True. Increases non-consensual PvP, but decreases consensual. Getting podded into k-space and not in your WH home makes people more risk-averse. Controversial. Give wormholes stargate treatment in that they appear on overview; no scanning needed. VERY controversial. Reducing the number of wormholes. This would obviously increase encounters between players. I can guarantee if you see one lazerhawk, you'll have about 40 of them in your hole within seconds of any c5/c6 activity. We played with them, when it was 4-5 vs 4-5, but usually they bring the mass **** in when they come. Anyways on another note, ccp says the pos situation is for content... Corps with multiple pos's with private pos's shouldn't fall under a content blanket. I don't know of any company I have worked for that gave me complete access to everyone's email information. Their should be way more control for pos's than currently is implemented. Let's say person A in a corp wants to have their own pos, however the corp will still have access to it, for under attack reasons. The person A shouldn't have the ability to go into any other pos and be able to access what they can do in their pos in some elses. The stargate idea needs to go away, there is a reason why people live in wormholes, if you can't scan you live in null, or ls. Make wormholes more lucrative. Enable moon mining, wormholes should have everything null/low has, but in high quantity. If you want more activity, make it to where people want to move there for the risk. It's far more riskier in wh than anywhere else. The highsec ore sites still give a good amount of ore, to where roving bands seek these out to provide what they require to build items.
Ab'del Abu Atlantis Ascendant 270	Posted - 2015.04.28 08:45:56 - [199] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: He's only 2 minutes in to a 30 minute spree of staring at a Retriever wondering if it's bait before attacking it and discovering it is actually AFK. Give him time. hahahahahhaahahaha laughed so hard you made my day. thank you sir
Winthorp 2903	Posted - 2015.04.28 08:52:44 - [200] - Quote So will any of these bizarre ideas listed in the OP actually be put forward to CCP like they are an agreed upon consensus of WH space communities views or will you just be pointing them in the direction of this thread Corbexx? I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for persistent signature ID's". . . . Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...

Robby Godfather Lazerhawks 2	Posted - 2015.04.28 09:55:42 - [201] - Quote How about making wormhole spawn rate based on sleepers kill rate? The more sleepers you kill the more wormholes you will get. That would create more connections between used systems and force wh pve entities to be ready for pvp when doing sites.
Blizzaro Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 15	Posted - 2015.04.28 11:25:29 - [202] - Quote Robby Godfather wrote: How about making wormhole spawn rate based on sleepers kill rate? The more sleepers you kill the more wormholes you will get. That would create more connections between used systems and force wh pve entities to be ready for pvp when doing sites. Only if it means these spawn to top null npc kill systems. I would run homesites for Dek holes all day.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1200	Posted - 2015.04.28 13:29:11 - [203] - Quote Winthorp wrote: So will any of these bizarre ideas listed in the OP actually be put forward to CCP like they are an agreed upon consensus of WH space communities views or will you just be pointing them in the direction of this thread Corbexx? really? This is the post of your prodigal return? I'm disappointed If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Bleedingthrough Project AIice 164	Posted - 2015.04.28 14:05:34 - [204] - Quote Sorry for the late reply. Ab'del Abu, I agree with what you said concerning caps on the field. Ab'del Abu wrote: As for rolling your hole safe, low class inhabitants do it too. Many groups actually collapse the holes in their statics as well, if they're going to run sites there. So much for content^^ The question is not if they do it (no one wants to lose a ratting fleet) but what the gain is for everyone. Compared to home sites ratting you need to find a decent static which is worth to rat in and you are able to control first. In the process you will more likely stumble across PvP opportunities and create them than simply shutting your home static down. Also sites outside home can not be done in one siege cycle and in general a fleet in your static is way more exposed. While I enjoy the GÇ£unknownsGÇ¥ that come with static isk printing and the teamwork that is required this playstyle is not competitive: Having out of corp alts in an isk-printing C5s is the way to go for painless, for the most part contentless and efficient feeding of you PvP activities/paying for your alts/etc. . Eve players are smart and want to win. Of cause there is a cultural dimension to this but ultimately players and their groups will adapt to what is the most efficient under given game mechanics. And if you add one and one together you are where we are now. I donGÇÖt know if this is enjoyable at the top, never been in the top of the food chain in w-space. Being part of a group that is more a punching ball than a puncher we have no trouble finding content and I personally donGÇÖt have a problem with groups being so large and competent that you can not hope to win in a fight against them. From a PR standpoint it is good to have these groups that make it to the news, something that attracts ppl to w-space, someone you want to be like, it makes you feel proud to be part of the w-community. The question is if the WH community wants more centrifugal forces in WH space and a plainer battleground. If so, dealing with capital escalations and alt farming might be the right lever to tackle this. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5305080#post5305080
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1612	Posted - 2015.04.28 14:20:11 - [205] - Quote JeRaadtHetNooit wrote: Aderoth Anstian wrote: Encourage static farming in C5/C6s problem solved. Remove capital escalation farming from home sites maybe not really 'remove' but make it so your escalation appears not in your WH but in one of WHs connected to your at the moment. Plus replace capital escalations by something equally 'lucrative' but cruiser/BS level. ? This will make people go outside or just gift this escalation to neighbours. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
HTC NecoSino No Vacancies Lost Alliance 207	Posted - 2015.04.28 14:53:11 - [206] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Plus replace capital escalations by something equally 'lucrative' but cruiser/BS level. ? Something, something, WR, something...
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 51	Posted - 2015.04.28 14:53:26 - [207] - Quote The dumb ideas regarding escalations really don't cease to amaze. *~lvl 60 paladin~*
TurboX3 Hax. Wrecked. 77	Posted - 2015.04.28 16:38:49 - [208] - Quote Stop evicting the corps / alliances living within them..... No Trolling Please
umnikar Fishbone Industries 69	Posted - 2015.04.28 17:11:01 - [209] - Quote remove c5/6
Hidden Fremen Lazerhawks 566	Posted - 2015.04.28 18:53:39 - [210] - Quote Thank you for disclosing our conversation, corbexx, and quoting me without permission. I know you're biased, but this is unbecoming of someone in your position. It was premature, out of context, and another betrayal of trust. The items you listed were just from the first page of a multipage thread on my forums (with my parentheses).

Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1200	Posted - 2015.04.28 19:13:15 - [211] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: Thank you for disclosing our conversation, corbexx, and quoting me without permission. I know you're biased, but this is unbecoming of someone in your position. It was premature, out of context, and another betrayal of trust. The items you listed were just from the first page of a multipage thread on my forums (with my parentheses). lol after you posted on page 4 yeesh you're dumb. No wonder lazerhawks always needs help with a leader like you If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Help They GotMyMoney Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2015.04.28 20:30:54 - [212] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: Thank you for disclosing our conversation, corbexx, and quoting me without permission. I know you're biased, but this is unbecoming of someone in your position. It was premature, out of context, and another betrayal of trust. The items you listed were just from the first page of a multipage thread on my forums (with my parentheses). Hidden Fremen wrote: Anyway, those aren't my ideas; just random ideas that were proposed in corp. Post with you're main. Lazerhawks: ¨we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers¨
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1204	Posted - 2015.04.28 20:32:37 - [213] - Quote NO DONT LET FACTS GET IN THE WAY OF A **** NARRATIVE fuccboi general right there inb4 "hurrdurr no I was just le trell facing" If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Aimee Arbosa Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 1029	Posted - 2015.04.29 02:50:46 - [214] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: "hurrdurr no I was just le trell facing" Oh god you make me laugh so hard. I love it. Also ... Andrew Jester wrote: Winthorp wrote: So will any of these bizarre ideas listed in the OP actually be put forward to CCP like they are an agreed upon consensus of WH space communities views or will you just be pointing them in the direction of this thread Corbexx? really? This is the post of your prodigal return? I'm disappointed No, the real posts were elsewhere. In a real thread. Like people ever make profound posts in this subforum. Also, won't removing watchlists fix this whole problem? GòöGòÉ.GÖÑ.GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòù Hnngg GÖÑ Coffee GòÜGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ.GÖÑ.GòÉGò¥
Lee Sin Priest Republic University Minmatar Republic 15	Posted - 2015.04.29 02:59:26 - [215] - Quote Don't evict people...?
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1209	Posted - 2015.04.29 03:17:28 - [216] - Quote Aimee Arbosa wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: "hurrdurr no I was just le trell facing" Oh god you make me laugh so hard. I love it. Also ... Andrew Jester wrote: Winthorp wrote: So will any of these bizarre ideas listed in the OP actually be put forward to CCP like they are an agreed upon consensus of WH space communities views or will you just be pointing them in the direction of this thread Corbexx? really? This is the post of your prodigal return? I'm disappointed No, the real posts were elsewhere. In a real thread. Like people ever make profound posts in this subforum. Also, won't removing watchlists fix this whole problem? NERF WATCHLIST REMOVE FORUM ez fix for making WHs more active If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Aimee Arbosa Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 1035	Posted - 2015.04.29 03:53:57 - [217] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: REMOVE FORUM Stahp .. GòöGòÉ.GÖÑ.GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòù Hnngg GÖÑ Coffee GòÜGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ.GÖÑ.GòÉGò¥
Hans Bonderstadt Resonance Cascade. 49	Posted - 2015.04.29 04:43:04 - [218] - Quote people need a reason to leave their POS and home wormhole ))))
Hidden Fremen Lazerhawks 569	Posted - 2015.04.29 10:50:36 - [219] - Quote Hans Bonderstadt wrote: people need a reason to leave their POS and home wormhole )))) That's easy to fix. There are plenty enough incentives to bring people out of the POS. Just add more environmental content. Doesn't change their aversion to consensual PvP, still.
Ridvanson 34	Posted - 2015.04.29 10:53:30 - [220] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: Hans Bonderstadt wrote: people need a reason to leave their POS and home wormhole )))) That's easy to fix. There are plenty enough incentives to bring people out of the POS. Just add more environmental content. Doesn't change their aversion to consensual PvP, still. slow down skill training in POS shields #yolo

Siginek BAND of MAGNUS THE R0NIN 14	Posted - 2015.04.29 10:54:00 - [221] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: Hans Bonderstadt wrote: people need a reason to leave their POS and home wormhole )))) That's easy to fix. There are plenty enough incentives to bring people out of the POS. Just add more environmental content. Doesn't change their aversion to consensual PvP, still. Neither would it change your aversion not to blob everybody ... you want to change environment even trough this is player issue and you are responsible for it
Ilaister Absolutely Certain 178	Posted - 2015.04.29 11:15:43 - [222] - Quote Siginek wrote: Neither would it change your aversion not to blob everybody ... you want to change environment even trough this is player issue and you are responsible for it Have managed to avoid it thusfar but as this won't cease.... in my experience LZHK are the last highclass entity you can accuse of risk aversion with a straight face. Maybe others have different experience with them, perhaps things have changed with their corp since they grew but as far as interaction with my group goes can honestly say it's YOLO/engage with better fits + more dual/triple/quadboxing is how they operate. If there are problems thanks to specific corps in C5-6 it doesn't come from LZHK.
Siginek BAND of MAGNUS THE R0NIN 15	Posted - 2015.04.29 11:33:08 - [223] - Quote Ilaister wrote: Siginek wrote: Neither would it change your aversion not to blob everybody ... you want to change environment even trough this is player issue and you are responsible for it Have managed to avoid it thusfar but as this won't cease.... in my experience LZHK are the last highclass entity you can accuse of risk aversion with a straight face. Maybe others have different experience with them, perhaps things have changed with their corp since they grew but as far as interaction with my group goes can honestly say it's YOLO/engage with better fits + more dual/triple/quadboxing is how they operate. If there are problems thanks to specific corps in C5-6 it doesn't come from LZHK. by "you" i mean that blue blob of LZHX/QEX/HRDKX ... they are responsible of half of players from C5/C6 being gone and other half doenst want to fight them because they dont want to get blobbed .... and yet, here we are discuissing how to solve this player problem by changing environment in topic which creation is based on discussion between corbexx and hidden fremen ... that is bit of hypocritic from LZHX side ... ... anyway ... not saying that some changes for WH space wouldnt be bad, there is still too much WH space and too few entertainment here, but you cant blame this problem on system ... this is much more player responsibility ...
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 43060	Posted - 2015.04.29 11:51:15 - [224] - Quote Alright I'll do a serous post .... uhg. Siginek wrote: by "you" i mean that blue blob of LZHX/QEX/HRDKX ... they are responsible of half of players from C5/C6 being gone and other half doenst want to fight them because they dont want to get blobbed .... and yet, here we are discuissing how to solve this player problem by changing environment in topic which creation is based on discussion between corbexx and hidden fremen ... that is bit of hypocritic from LZHX side ... ... anyway ... not saying that some changes for WH space wouldnt be bad, there is still too much WH space and too few entertainment here, but you cant blame this problem on system solely ... this is much more player responsibility ... I agree that the blob thing is real. But it's nobody's fault. People see the fights and action these groups get involved in. It's epic ^^ People want to be a part of that, they join large, successful groups because they want to have that fun too. The corps grow, so do the fleets. It's natural evolution and that is nobody's fault at all. We can't seriously expect corps to start limiting member intake or fleet sizes. It's just not gonna happen. So we need to start looking at other solutions to off-set the natural evolution of these things and in the end a lot of that is going to come down to environmental stuff. It just is. People can yell at the big groups all they want, but the reason they are big is because the are successful and people are always going to want to be involved in that. Big fleet fights, cap kills, all that stuff is why I stopped flying solo and wanted to join real corps for serious action. Didn't you? Quote: that is bit of hypocritic from LZHX side ... This is maybe the only part of your post, and this thread, I'll side with. This thread essentially was inspired by LZHX and corbexx, saying "How do we increase PvP in C5 and C6?". Many people's first reaction was to say "But it's all your fault". The interesting thing then was the reaction from those involved in creating this thread, doing a complete 180 turn and saying "But there's nothing wrong, you're all just bad at this game." So yes, it does look a bit hypocritical, no offence. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Help They GotMyMoney Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 15	Posted - 2015.04.29 12:09:02 - [225] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: Alright I'll do a serous post .... uhg. The corps grow, so do the fleets. It's natural evolution and that is nobody's fault at all. We can't seriously expect corps to start limiting member intake or fleet sizes. It's just not gonna happen. Closing recruitment seems to fix this issue for most people in eve. Perhaps the leadership should realize that, seeing as wh space (as far as I remember) was a small/medium fleet's space, and not 100+ t3's blobfest like in k-space, and the said leaders should strive to keep pvp challenging and interesting, and not just anchoring with many t3s and acting as another pawn of someone's (FC's) isboxer. For example look at all the cool things NoHo did with their medium sized fleets, all the cool fights. Sadly the way things are going I think they were the last of their kind. No more fighting outnumbered, just a monotone t3 blob where no one except the fc is actually relevant. (yes if you die in your t3 during a fight, it changes nothing) Hidden, Noobman and MaxDEL, don't you see that you are taking the challenging tasks out of the game, and games are supposed to be challenging, otherwise it takes the fun away, same way as using cheats/trainer/codes. Post with you're main. Lazerhawks: ¨we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers¨
Siginek BAND of MAGNUS THE R0NIN 16	Posted - 2015.04.29 12:15:18 - [226] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: People see the fights and action these groups get involved in. It's epic ^^ People want to be a part of that, they join large, successful groups because they want to have that fun too. The corps grow, so do the fleets. It's natural evolution and that is nobody's fault at all. We can't seriously expect corps to start limiting member intake or fleet sizes. It's just not gonna happen. So we need to start looking at other solutions to off-set the natural evolution of these things and in the end a lot of that is going to come down to environmental stuff. It just is. People can yell at the big groups all they want, but the reason they are big is because the are successful and people are always going to want to be involved in that. Big fleet fights, cap kills, all that stuff is why I stopped flying solo and wanted to join real corps for serious action. Didn't you?. For long time there were lot of smaller groups fighting each other, no hard feelings, everybody had fun and WH life was fine and healthy, but some time later few of theese groups started to work together and wiping smaller groups for sport and thats the point where life in WH went to hell ... And to your question ... i would love to be part of group that managed to be king of the hill by making themself better than other, but still having same chances to win as enemy did But i definitelly wouldnt want to be part of this "group" that basically blobs and bullies everyone out of sport because they are biggest in WH, thats not fun, thats not even remotely fair, thats just big kid beating small kids one after another ...
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1213	Posted - 2015.04.29 12:22:26 - [227] - Quote [quote=Erica Dusette]Alright I'll do a serous post .... uhg./quote] I thought you were better than that If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 43060	Posted - 2015.04.29 12:22:33 - [228] - Quote Help They GotMyMoney wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: Alright I'll do a serous post .... uhg. The corps grow, so do the fleets. It's natural evolution and that is nobody's fault at all. We can't seriously expect corps to start limiting member intake or fleet sizes. It's just not gonna happen. Closing recruitment seems to fix this issue for most people in eve. Perhaps the leadership should realize that, seeing as wh space (as far as I remember) was a small/medium fleet's space, and not 100+ t3's blobfest like in k-space, and the said leaders should strive to keep pvp challenging and interesting, and not just anchoring with many t3s and acting as another pawn of someone's (FC's) isboxer. For example look at all the cool things NoHo did with their medium sized fleets, all the cool fights. Sadly the way things are going I think they were the last of their kind. No more fighting outnumbered, just a monotone t3 blob where no one except the fc is actually relevant. (yes if you die in your t3 during a fight, it changes nothing) Hidden, Noobman and MaxDEL, don't you see that you are taking the challenging tasks out of the game, and games are supposed to be challenging, otherwise it takes the fun away, same way as using cheats/trainer/codes. You may have some good points and even ideas worth listening too, and you seem to like naming names and calling out corps, but people are only going to take you so seriously while you hide you and yours behind an alt. No offence. Here I am with my #1 putting my views forward openly. You are really lucky people even indulge you in the courtesy of a reply tbh. Yes posting with your main is cliche. But there's a reason for that. ^^ Anyway, "winning" itself is challenging on it's own sometimes. Why do you think some of these groups (big and small do this) team up for certain fights or ganks? Because they cannot do it on their own or the risk to their member's assets is too great. Nobody wants to welp billions in fleets daily, you fight to win. Simple. You can't blame people for that. If it turns out to be close, nail-biting fight, awesome! Sure, I totally agree limiting membership intakes and such might have an impact. But for how long? Not everyone is going to follow suit and unless other changes are looked at this problem will just keep re-occurring every time a group grows to become a large entity. We'll have to remind them of the "wormhole rule about limiting your corp size". I mean ... seriously ... Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Iyokus Patrouette Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 437	Posted - 2015.04.29 12:24:16 - [229] - Quote Siginek wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: People see the fights and action these groups get involved in. It's epic ^^ People want to be a part of that, they join large, successful groups because they want to have that fun too. The corps grow, so do the fleets. It's natural evolution and that is nobody's fault at all. We can't seriously expect corps to start limiting member intake or fleet sizes. It's just not gonna happen. So we need to start looking at other solutions to off-set the natural evolution of these things and in the end a lot of that is going to come down to environmental stuff. It just is. People can yell at the big groups all they want, but the reason they are big is because the are successful and people are always going to want to be involved in that. Big fleet fights, cap kills, all that stuff is why I stopped flying solo and wanted to join real corps for serious action. Didn't you?. For long time there were lot of smaller groups fighting each other, no hard feelings, everybody had fun and WH life was fine and healthy, but some time later few of theese groups started to work together and wiping smaller groups for sport and thats the point where life in WH went to hell ... And to your question ... i would love to be part of group that managed to be king of the hill by making themself better than other, but still having same chances to win as enemy did But i definitelly wouldnt want to be part of this "group" that basically blobs and bullies everyone out of sport because they are biggest in WH, thats not fun, thats not even remotely fair, thats just big kid beating small kids one after another ... Then why don't the small kids grow a pair, team up and take on the 'big boys' with the same numbers. ---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 43060	Posted - 2015.04.29 12:25:04 - [230] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: Alright I'll do a serous post .... uhg./quote] I thought you were better than that True, I am slipping ... Sorry senpai. [quote=Iyokus Patrouette] Then why don't the small kids grow a pair, team up and take on the 'big boys' with the same numbers. Exactly. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò

Siginek BAND of MAGNUS THE R0NIN 16	Posted - 2015.04.29 12:34:01 - [231] - Quote Iyokus Patrouette wrote: Then why don't the small kids grow a pair, team up and take on the 'big boys' with the same numbers. Thats one option, but it would probably end up with both parties sitting on their hill and waiting for another one to make his move while doing nothing because there would be noone else left to fight expect enemy blob ... and if one would want to evict another they would have to prepare for months to that ... this could probably work for little while, but in the end ppl would get bored by doing nothing and it would get even worse because they would be leaving WH space or even game for good
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1213	Posted - 2015.04.29 12:57:30 - [232] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: Alright I'll do a serous post .... uhg. I thought you were better than that True, I am slipping ... Sorry senpai. ed: ** sake Jester learn to quote. Iyokus Patrouette wrote:** Then why don't the small kids grow a pair, team up and take on the 'big boys' with the same numbers. Exactly. Shh I just noticed x.x I was hoping no one else had... If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Jonn Duune Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation 5	Posted - 2015.04.29 13:14:53 - [233] - Quote Phoenix Jones wrote: unimatrix0030 wrote: I ran on the c5 highway recently (About 3 days ago). It was fun but it was also pretty much dead with just POS's up. Shattered has no issue regarding pos's, but in order for that to foster fights, there has to be something valuable to get in shattered, and they all need to be interconnected and capable of supporting 5 man fleets to 40 man fleets, caps included. To do that, there has to be unique items in shattered space to obtain (to make people bring such huge armies in). Yes that means rare mods that come from officers that spawn at the end of cap escallations in Shattered Space (so yea, you want it, your bringing in a bunch of caps to do it). Means rare items or possible new equipment to be built from the items that can only be obtained in shattered space. Such as New Subsystems that can be found and created only by items dropped in shattered space, or even a new T3 rig or something like that. I'm a little surprised they didn't just throw all the D3 destroyer stuff into the shattered wormholes (slower distribution). I suppose they could do so now but that'd be a different direction. Incentive the need for going into shattered space, and interconnect shatters together to get people commiting fleets to either run sites in there, or get into fights in there, or roam through it. Just some thoughts I had. Shattered space could be a viable route to drive wspace conflicts. I like this idea. It would really force triage gangs and such into shattered, which would definitely increase some pvp. What you could also do is give shattered some statics (personally i think 6 statics, 1 to every class of WH would be fun) that spawn automatically opened, so there's no need to activate them. That way you can't roll them closed either, you either have to take the risk in running these sites, or just fail to partake in what advantages they bring.
calaretu Honestly We didnt know Unsettled. 296	Posted - 2015.04.29 13:27:29 - [234] - Quote The number of evictions done by HK/Lazerhawks/QEX pales in comparison to the number of evictions done by nullsec groups in wormholespace lately. Yet nobody cares about those because they happen to the smaller groups that try to establish themself. This thread is so full of... posts that could have been more constructive. But meh. I'll enjoy c4 space and leave the nullsec farmers to whoever is actually left in c5/6 space. ~Bringer of happiness http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ .ORLY is recruiting
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1214	Posted - 2015.04.29 13:37:52 - [235] - Quote calaretu wrote: The number of evictions done by HK/Lazerhawks/QEX pales in comparison to the number of evictions done by nullsec groups in wormholespace lately. Yet nobody cares about those because they happen to the smaller groups that try to establish themself. This thread is so full of... posts that could have been more constructive. But meh. I'll enjoy c4 space and leave the nullsec farmers to whoever is actually left in c5/6 space. let's just make statements without facts this is fun If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
calaretu Honestly We didnt know Unsettled. 296	Posted - 2015.04.29 13:44:18 - [236] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: calaretu wrote: The number of evictions done by HK/Lazerhawks/QEX pales in comparison to the number of evictions done by nullsec groups in wormholespace lately. Yet nobody cares about those because they happen to the smaller groups that try to establish themself. This thread is so full of... posts that could have been more constructive. But meh. I'll enjoy c4 space and leave the nullsec farmers to whoever is actually left in c5/6 space. let's just make statements without facts this is fun You know there exists groups in nullsec that isnt part of the english community right? Not sure what facts you are looking for but I have personally seen the russian nullsec groups throw out several groups this year. But what groups groups have Lazerhawks etc actually thrown out of their home? ~Bringer of happiness http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ .ORLY is recruiting
Ceberia Thalon Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.04.29 13:50:29 - [237] - Quote Iyokus Patrouette wrote: Then why don't the small kids grow a pair, team up and take on the 'big boys' with the same numbers. May be the small Kids like what they are? Escaping from a fight you can-¦t win without losing a ship is also part of pvp. This whole thread was started by large groups complaining they don-¦t get enough pvp. I didn-¦t read anything like that from the small ones.
Tol Vir Lazerhawks 2	Posted - 2015.04.29 14:10:53 - [238] - Quote Iyokus Patrouette wrote: Siginek wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: People see the fights and action these groups get involved in. It's epic ^^ People want to be a part of that, they join large, successful groups because they want to have that fun too. The corps grow, so do the fleets. It's natural evolution and that is nobody's fault at all. We can't seriously expect corps to start limiting member intake or fleet sizes. It's just not gonna happen. So we need to start looking at other solutions to off-set the natural evolution of these things and in the end a lot of that is going to come down to environmental stuff. It just is. People can yell at the big groups all they want, but the reason they are big is because the are successful and people are always going to want to be involved in that. Big fleet fights, cap kills, all that stuff is why I stopped flying solo and wanted to join real corps for serious action. Didn't you?. For long time there were lot of smaller groups fighting each other, no hard feelings, everybody had fun and WH life was fine and healthy, but some time later few of theese groups started to work together and wiping smaller groups for sport and thats the point where life in WH went to hell ... And to your question ... i would love to be part of group that managed to be king of the hill by making themself better than other, but still having same chances to win as enemy did But i definitelly wouldnt want to be part of this "group" that basically blobs and bullies everyone out of sport because they are biggest in WH, thats not fun, thats not even remotely fair, thats just big kid beating small kids one after another ... Then why don't the small kids grow a pair, team up and take on the 'big boys' with the same numbers. They don't even need to do that. I am sure there have been a couple of times we have ended up talking to a corp in the chain and organised a fight where we shipped down and came in with less dudes to give them a fair fight. I would say to any corp if you want to have a fair fight but only have limited numbers or dont want to risk a t3 fleet convo us and we will either bring similar numbers or ship down into t1 cruisers or w/e it takes to get a fun and fair fight.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 963	Posted - 2015.04.29 14:28:13 - [239] - Quote So a smallerish number of C7 w/ a mandatory c7/c7 connection that has large mass limits to allow routine epic fights between the large groups that live there. I'm surprised none of the big entities that are craving pvp haven't chimed in w/ "Heck Yeah - let's do this" It gives you the access to big fights your are looking for and the small number and c7/c7 static guarantees you'll get what you're asking for. If you're looking for more connectivity, then make the C7 have 3 statics - a c7/c7 and 2 others. If you want to make static farming desirable, then make the c7 mechanics such that you make more isk/hr going into your c7 static and taking another gourps sites. Can one of the bigger groups point out why they don't think this would be a good idea?
Zara Arran Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 140	Posted - 2015.04.29 14:28:44 - [240] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: it's really easy. you take all the 300man groups, make them into 50-100 man groups and remove all their blues. First of all: http://i.imgur.com/ygK4XFZ.jpg Get it right! Second of all: Jack, might want to start with your own corp. In all seriousness, the teaming up (even against what some people are calling "farmers") is the biggest problem. And this is something you guys control yourselves... If they are really farmers, you should be able to fight them with on your own anyway. A lot of these groups that team up are 300+ char-groups, and then they find it weird that smaller starting pvp groups don't want to move to C5/C6's.... Or that when they finally don't team up (correct term again is purple guys!), people don't trust them to be alone.. Come on.

Hidden Fremen Lazerhawks 570	Posted - 2015.04.29 15:06:08 - [241] - Quote We didn't start big. Our first week, we were 20 something members. We took any fight since day one. No, "sorry, we're in the middle of moving." We weren't even moved into our Pulsar yet. It's a hard job keeping our member numbers low. It's more work purging our inactives than it is taking in fresh blood. And cutting off recruitment is the fastest way to kill your corp, I think. But still, I recognize there's a problem. I know what needs to be done and we're trying. The teaming up does reflect negatively toward us, so we'll be cutting down on that. The TDSIN invasion was a step in that direction. There was nothing we (both sides of leadership) wanted more than to keep it 1v1. It was only us two, until suddenly Dropbears trickled in, then hearing about several others volunteering. I suppose the assumption that HK/QEX were en route was panic enough to not waste time picking up the phone, but they'd been absent the entire time. There are battle reports to prove. I mean, ****, all 50+ of their towers were reinforced by us, only. But, in hindsight, maybe we should have just kept it 100% Lazerhawks, despite the looming TDSIN coalition (DB, PL, TSNK, Exceed, AHARM [others they tried to reach, but came offering to us, instead]). We would have been mangled from the boots up with that coalition, but maybe then we would have been patted on the back. TDSIN had enough power to repel us on their own, actually. We started with two dreads and subcaps... It probably would have still been something like, "Lol, getfkt evikshen fail lolol," though. Everyone starts small. If they produce enough content, they swell in numbers. People dig that. Can't blame anyone for that. The teaming up is a problem and should be done at least proportionally (1v1 corps). We do fight each other, though. We've fight HK and SSC more times than we have any other entity. We want more fights, so we'll do our best to make that more appealing to others, starting with reductions.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 963	Posted - 2015.04.29 15:12:37 - [242] - Quote What do you think about the c7 with multiple statics? A bigger yard to play in?
Hidden Fremen Lazerhawks 571	Posted - 2015.04.29 15:20:31 - [243] - Quote I think they should give dual statics to other space, before introducing yet another class of wormhole.
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 43062	Posted - 2015.04.29 15:21:12 - [244] - Quote Zara Arran wrote: Second of all: Jack, might want to start with your own corp. Oh, if only you knew. Zara Arran wrote: If they are really farmers, you should be able to fight them with on your own anyway. A lot of these groups that team up are 300+ char-groups, and then they find it weird that smaller starting pvp groups don't want to move to C5/C6's.. Just one point - it's always worth remembering that those membership numbers don't always count for everything. Recently Iso5 ganked a farming fleet of 5 capitals. We did it alone and were quite chuffed about it. Now this is a 100+ character corporation. You need to keep in mind the general rule that you 1/3 (or 1/2 at best) corp membership numbers to get a rough estimate of the actual humans in it. Fittingly, we managed to put together a fleet of 25 for that gank, and had the locals responded with even a fleet of 10 T3s to support their caps (which was quite possible) we would have been in big trouble. Luckily for us that didn't happen. Now ... had we been sure these guys were going to respond with a T3 fleet to defend their caps damn right I'm sure we would have asked for backup. We'd have needed it to hold the field. You also need to keep timezones in mind. I've been online numerous times when 'friendly' corps have phoned us and asked for extra pilots, and I've literally been the only one online lol. Why were they asking? Because their situation at that time of day wasn't much better. Just food for thought overall. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2283	Posted - 2015.04.29 16:02:02 - [245] - Quote I can confirm, some times Iso5 is like, 2 guys (or guys acting as girls) online, and hen you randomly see a Dusette in Local and it's all "Hey bbeh wut U doing?" andthen "Oh there's like 8 guys camping bbelz but it's only me." and I'm all "lets slide a few Gilas and a bait Rook in there and see what happens." dim lights lava lamp content happens. Amirite? Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014. Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 43065	Posted - 2015.04.29 16:10:29 - [246] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: content happens. Amirite? I still have no idea what happened that night or who the hell I was shooting at. But it was fun. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 975	Posted - 2015.04.29 16:10:32 - [247] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: That said, there's not a mechanic that can be changed to increase consensual PvP. That's why when Sugar asked me how I would change it, I was stumped (also inebriated). Corbexx did what he could to bring people out of their force fields, but beyond that is a cultural mindset. Most people hate overly aggressive behavior. Others hate risk aversion. There's conflict there, just not the right type. So, I think it's really up to us, as corp leaders, to make some sacrifices to foster internal changes, if we want more people willing to pew. Commonly it's *They have the same fleet as us, +2 falcons and then a bubbler. Not only do you know you're going to lose, but you also know you're going to have to make 1248061 jumps in order to get into the fight again, if the victorious so chose as to let you back in. While at 0m and with strong logistics, T3s resists+sigradius+gank turn them insane. They got tackle and neuts and effects turn more impactful the stronger the numbers are shifted. When engaging a numerically weaker force, it's sort of a mobile version of parking a dozen vindis and an archon on your hole. So if a gang shows up in T3s and has to announce themselves in local, it's usually not going to happen that way. Yet so many people try it and wonder.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1214	Posted - 2015.04.29 17:01:11 - [248] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: We didn't start big. Our first week, we were 20 something members. We took any fight since day one. No, "sorry, we're in the middle of moving." We weren't even moved into our Pulsar yet. It's a hard job keeping our member numbers low. It's more work purging our inactives than it is taking in fresh blood. And cutting off recruitment is the fastest way to kill your corp, I think. But still, I recognize there's a problem. I know what needs to be done and we're trying. Most of our cap ganks are solo. The teaming up does reflect negatively toward us, so we'll be cutting down on that. The TDSIN invasion was a step in that direction. There was nothing we (both sides of leadership) wanted more than to keep it 1v1. It was only us two, until suddenly Dropbears trickled in, then hearing about several others volunteering. I suppose the assumption that HK/QEX were en route was panic enough to not waste time picking up the phone, but they'd been absent the entire time. There are battle reports to prove. I mean, ****, all 50+ of their towers were reinforced by us, only. But, in hindsight, maybe we should have just kept it 100% Lazerhawks, despite the looming TDSIN coalition (DB, PL, TSNK, Exceed, AHARM [others they tried to reach, but came offering to us, instead]). We would have been mangled from the boots up with that coalition, but maybe then we would have been patted on the back. TDSIN had enough power to repel us on their own, actually. We started with two dreads and subcaps... It probably would have still been something like, "Lol, getfkt evikshen fail lolol," though. Everyone starts small. If they produce enough content, they swell in numbers. People dig that. Can't blame anyone for that. The teaming up is a problem and should be done at least proportionally (1v1 corps). We do fight each other, though. We've fight HK and SSC more times than we have any other entity. We want more fights, so we'll do our best to make that more appealing to others, starting with reductions. That said, there's not a mechanic that can be changed to increase consensual PvP. That's why when Sugar asked me how I would change it, I was stumped (also inebriated). Corbexx did what he could to bring people out of their force fields, but beyond that is a cultural mindset. Most people hate overly aggressive behavior. Others hate risk aversion. There's conflict there, just not the right type. So, I think it's really up to us, as corp leaders, to make some sacrifices to foster internal changes, if we want more people willing to pew. this is literally the best post you've ever made now never post again so that you don't ruin it If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1214	Posted - 2015.04.29 17:02:18 - [249] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: dim lights lava lamp content happens. Amirite? it's lights on music blasting when dusette and I create content If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 963	Posted - 2015.04.29 17:02:47 - [250] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: I think they should give dual statics to other space, before introducing yet another class of wormhole. I guess what I'm not getting is why you wouldn't be for a C7 with 3 statics: C7/C7, C7/C5 or C6, and C7/C2 or C4. I think this would give you the monster epic c7/c7 connection for big boy stuff, and the other 2 connections would give you routes into both the high end and low end wh for other needs. Part of my reasoning for a new space to accomodate large wh corps such as yours is because the current state of wh space is pretty awesome for my corp (and I'll assume other corps of my size). It goes more to the thought of why change something awesome because 5 groups outgrew it when you can add something new that fits those 5 groups (and makes room for others to step up). I have a large concern about changing wh to the needs of larger groups. It's not anything you or your corp have put forth - it's more the things corbex is trying to do. This is his second attempt at a punch list of garbage to make wh 'better' by trying to bring a taste of null to wh space or trying to push folks into their static for pve. A lot of the ideas are poorly thought out or just plain bad. It seems that this time he was clever enough to put your character's name on the headline instead of his own. Take mass/range - a few guys figured out that it would be easier to gank rolling caps if they were spawned at range. Not to rehash, but they mostly looked at what they wanted to happen and some math. They didn't look at how folks would adapt. Now we have higgs ravens. Take the last 5 or so years of null. Big eve had too much sway and in the end garbage was created. Now, CCP is painfully digging out of those bad decisions. I guess I'm just concerned that a few large wh entities having CCPs ear will ruin wh space in a similar way. I say that with the reasonable assumption that large null interests didn't set out to make garbage, it just happened that way. What may be beneficial to a large group may not be beneficial to the game, a particular part of the game or in the long run... the player base. If there is going to be a push for multiple statics in high end wh, then I would hope the push is for all c6 to have a c6/c6 (maybe make it bigger or something) and their current statics. I think what you are looking for is a normal static AND a combat static (in this example the c6/c6). Does that line or reasoning make sense?

Ab'del Abu Atlantis Ascendant 273	Posted - 2015.04.29 17:44:00 - [251] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: I guess what I'm not getting is why you wouldn't be for a C7 with 3 statics: C7/C7, C7/C5 or C6, and C7/C2 or C4. I think this would give you the monster epic c7/c7 connection for big boy stuff, and the other 2 connections would give you routes into both the high end and low end wh for other needs. Just guessing, but it's probably that they only would have like three other entities to fight in such a scenario. Like HRDKX, SSC, and oh look I can't even think about a third one now that NoHo is gone -.- Anyways, it would probably become boring on day three. Downsizing is probably the best thing they can do for their own sake and the overall health of wh-space content. There would be nothing wrong for the occasional get-together over a big cap gank or a casual null sec roam after splitting up, so ...
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 642	Posted - 2015.04.29 17:45:25 - [252] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: I guess what I'm not getting is why you wouldn't be for a C7 with 3 statics: C7/C7, C7/C5 or C6, and C7/C2 or C4. I think this would give you the monster epic c7/c7 connection for big boy stuff, and the other 2 connections would give you routes into both the high end and low end wh for other needs. Because it would be terrible for the same reasons C6s space is terrible, only even more terrible. Please try to learn from the history and shortfalls of the current environment before suggesting making a new one. W-Space Realtor
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 964	Posted - 2015.04.29 18:19:34 - [253] - Quote Axloth Okiah wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: I guess what I'm not getting is why you wouldn't be for a C7 with 3 statics: C7/C7, C7/C5 or C6, and C7/C2 or C4. I think this would give you the monster epic c7/c7 connection for big boy stuff, and the other 2 connections would give you routes into both the high end and low end wh for other needs. Because it would be terrible for the same reasons C6s space is terrible, only even more terrible. Please try to learn from the history and shortfalls of the current environment before suggesting making a new one. Ceberia Thalon wrote: This whole thread was started by large groups complaining they don-¦t get enough pvp. I didn-¦t read anything like that from the small ones. No, it was started by a goon and ex-WH bittervet shitposters. Ab'del Abu wrote: Downsizing is probably the best thing they can do for their own sake and the overall health of wh-space content. The best thing would be people farming outside of their own systems. I would say the worst idea of the bunch is to force folks to farm outside their home system. Here's the reasoning: 1. Ganking folks doing pve is (my opinion) not really pvp. It's ganking. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy both ganking someone and I get a good chuckle out of getting ganked. If folks mean 'we can't find punching bags to gank' when they say 'we can't find pvp' then please, from now on, say what you mean. Not to presume I can read Fremen's mind, but of the few encounters I've had with him, I'd wager he's looking for a bit more than an endless supply of paladins to bubble up and pod. 2. Eve pilots are smart. WH pilots are smarter than average eve pilots. They/we (yeah you and me) will find the safest way to quickly gather pve isk and move on to other things. Any pve wh can be made 'safe'. We all have a variable level of what amount of 'safe' is ok. If you move 'safe' too far to the dangerous side, then folks won't pve unsafe, they will move to a safer way to get pve isk. HK has a policy of pve alts go to other corps, others will adopt this - for instance rolling up incursion alts to make isk that way. The bottom line is no one can design a pve mode that folks will line up to get slaughtered doing. That just makes no sense. 3. What making static pve more lucrative really does - it allows large corps that can't survive on home system sites feasable by shifting the income source from the once per day cycle to the once per static cycle. That shift in how isk is brought in would totally alter how wh space is played toward bigger being necessary. It's bad math. Period. You want to make hordes of low skill pve blobbs the norm, then lucrative static farming is the quickest route. I'd rather re-double wh spawn ranges based on possible max hull speed.
Winthorp 3069	Posted - 2015.04.29 18:24:58 - [254] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Axloth Okiah wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: I guess what I'm not getting is why you wouldn't be for a C7 with 3 statics: C7/C7, C7/C5 or C6, and C7/C2 or C4. I think this would give you the monster epic c7/c7 connection for big boy stuff, and the other 2 connections would give you routes into both the high end and low end wh for other needs. Because it would be terrible for the same reasons C6s space is terrible, only even more terrible. Please try to learn from the history and shortfalls of the current environment before suggesting making a new one. Ceberia Thalon wrote: This whole thread was started by large groups complaining they don-¦t get enough pvp. I didn-¦t read anything like that from the small ones. No, it was started by a goon and ex-WH bittervet shitposters. Ab'del Abu wrote: Downsizing is probably the best thing they can do for their own sake and the overall health of wh-space content. The best thing would be people farming outside of their own systems. I would say the worst idea of the bunch is to force folks to farm outside their home system. Here's the reasoning: 1. Ganking folks doing pve is (my opinion) not really pvp. It's ganking. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy both ganking someone and I get a good chuckle out of getting ganked. If folks mean 'we can't find punching bags to gank' when they say 'we can't find pvp' then please, from now on, say what you mean. Not to presume I can read Fremen's mind, but of the few encounters I've had with him, I'd wager he's looking for a bit more than an endless supply of paladins to bubble up and pod. 2. Eve pilots are smart. WH pilots are smarter than average eve pilots. They/we (yeah you and me) will find the safest way to quickly gather pve isk and move on to other things. Any pve wh can be made 'safe'. We all have a variable level of what amount of 'safe' is ok. If you move 'safe' too far to the dangerous side, then folks won't pve unsafe, they will move to a safer way to get pve isk. HK has a policy of pve alts go to other corps, others will adopt this - for instance rolling up incursion alts to make isk that way. The bottom line is no one can design a pve mode that folks will line up to get slaughtered doing. That just makes no sense. 3. What making static pve more lucrative really does - it allows large corps that can't survive on home system sites feasable by shifting the income source from the once per day cycle to the once per static cycle. That shift in how isk is brought in would totally alter how wh space is played toward bigger being necessary. It's bad math. Period. You want to make hordes of low skill pve blobbs the norm, then lucrative static farming is the quickest route. I'd rather re-double wh spawn ranges based on possible max hull speed. You just dont get it at all. We all dont want people to farm in their statics so we can gank a tengu and then chestbeat about how sweet that was. We want people to not close off entire chains of WH's because the ISK in escalating home sites is so good and so safe that they hide away from the rest of eve for an entire TZ at a time. Thats not playing an MMO, that is people loving the carebear paradise. I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". . . . Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Ab'del Abu Atlantis Ascendant 273	Posted - 2015.04.29 18:30:01 - [255] - Quote Winthorp wrote: We all dont want people to farm in their statics so we can gank a tengu and then chestbeat about how sweet that was. We want people to not close off entire chains of WH's because the ISK in escalating home sites is so good and so safe that they hide away from the rest of eve for an entire TZ at a time. Thats not playing an MMO, that is people loving the carebear paradise. The reality is, however, that many groups that pve in their statics are already closing the connections there as well. This trend would only continue if you killed home sites ... ultimately you gain nothing by pushing people into their statics.
Winthorp 3069	Posted - 2015.04.29 18:36:17 - [256] - Quote Ab'del Abu wrote: Winthorp wrote: We all dont want people to farm in their statics so we can gank a tengu and then chestbeat about how sweet that was. We want people to not close off entire chains of WH's because the ISK in escalating home sites is so good and so safe that they hide away from the rest of eve for an entire TZ at a time. Thats not playing an MMO, that is people loving the carebear paradise. The reality is, however, that many groups that pve in their statics are already closing the connections there as well. This trend would only continue if you killed home sites ... ultimately you gain nothing by pushing people into their statics. I just have to disagree that this would happen in the majority of cases. You only need to look at the behavior of low class static farmers to know this would not be the actions most people would take. Sure some really paranoid players would but then they are taking even more risk then the current system to acheive that safety net and now more chance they can get rolled into by not only their home wh but now their static also. I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". . . . Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 964	Posted - 2015.04.29 18:51:09 - [257] - Quote Winthorp wrote: Ab'del Abu wrote: Winthorp wrote: We all dont want people to farm in their statics so we can gank a tengu and then chestbeat about how sweet that was. We want people to not close off entire chains of WH's because the ISK in escalating home sites is so good and so safe that they hide away from the rest of eve for an entire TZ at a time. Thats not playing an MMO, that is people loving the carebear paradise. The reality is, however, that many groups that pve in their statics are already closing the connections there as well. This trend would only continue if you killed home sites ... ultimately you gain nothing by pushing people into their statics. I just have to disagree that this would happen in the majority of cases. You only need to look at the behavior of curren static static farmers to know this would not be the actions most people would take. Sure some really paranoid players would but then they are taking even more risk then the current system to acheive that safety net and now more chance they can get rolled into by not only their home wh but now their static also. You're not making sense to me. NOW: 1. Log on. 2. Bear it up. 3. Log off. PVE FORCED TO STATIC: 1. Log on. 2. Bear it up in static. 3. Hey, doing pve in the static makes me want to stay logged in on my farming alt and roam around and get in a fight........ or 3. Log off. ????
Winthorp 3071	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:46:09 - [258] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: You're not making sense to me. NOW: 1. Log on. 2. Bear it up. 3. Log off. PVE FORCED TO STATIC: 1. Log on. 2. Bear it up in static. 3. Hey, doing pve in the static makes me want to stay logged in on my farming alt and roam around and get in a fight........ or 3. Log off. ???? I am not sure i can be any clearer, i thought the intention would be self evident if you thought about it for a moment. As it wasn't to you i will explain further. The entire point is now that a lot of these corp/alliances that have 100-300 members and are not as "aggressive"as the "big 3" that keep getting blamed for global warming and the like are just closing off chains and hiding away most of their active TZ's. These are groups that have the same capabilities as the hated groups. The entire point of stopping escalations is to open up more access to "interactions" with a lot of groups that rarely become part of your normal chain due to actions they take. I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". . . . Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Zara Arran Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 142	Posted - 2015.04.29 20:29:59 - [259] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: Recently Iso5 ganked a farming fleet of 5 capitals. We did it alone and were quite chuffed about it. Now this is a 100+ character corporation. You need to keep in mind the general rule that you 1/3 (or 1/2 at best) corp membership numbers to get a rough estimate of the actual humans in it. Fittingly, we managed to put together a fleet of 25 for that gank, and had the locals responded with even a fleet of 10 T3s to support their caps (which was quite possible) we would have been in big trouble. Luckily for us that didn't happen. Now ... had we been sure these guys were going to respond with a T3 fleet to defend their caps damn right I'm sure we would have asked for backup. We'd have needed it to hold the field. You also need to keep timezones in mind. I've been online numerous times when 'friendly' corps have phoned us and asked for extra pilots, and I've literally been the only one online lol. Why were they asking? Because their situation at that time of day wasn't much better. Just food for thought overall. I get that.. really.. But timezone's, the normal variation of activity, etc works both ways. Just like Noho was always thought to be a 50 man fleet... believe me, we didn't always have that...You often see people reminding others when their group has less members than normal due to tz/activity/whatevd but forget that your oponents can have the same thing when you don't have eyes on the enemy fleet. People however are risk-aversed and will assume the worst. This is where reputation comes in. If you sometimes batphone, people will assume even when you haven't that you can or will and therefore will either not fight or try to bring even more. That is your own doing, don't blame your oponents for that assumption. TL;DR: Batphoning is bad.
Shilalasar Dead Sky Inc. 151	Posted - 2015.04.29 20:32:06 - [260] - Quote A single tengu might die fast, but a handful of spidertanking BS or 1-3 capitals can survive a few minutes until reinforcements arrive. Esp if the optimal corp setup is not 7 pilots anymore. It is not like you run sleepers with a 0% EM hole and no buffer. People closing off all their connections in the static are way longer on the radar and at risk. RIght now you see people critting their homeconnections usually the same time you see their rollers on dscan and by the time you have scanned it down you can stare at a really wobbly hole. And never underestemate the greed of people, with the spawndistancechanges many saw the death of rolling with capitals, yet there are nanodreads on the killboards. There is also the factor of intel for the attacker when you find someone bearing in their static. Now if you see an escalationfleet you usually need between one dscan and two towerchecks to get the exact number of hostiles. If you roll into 5 people running sites in their static and they didn-¦t spot you there are at least 2 more holes connected to it. Might have some more pilots in it, might not. Are you going to check by jumping the hole? Adds more preptime where they might disappear, 2 cloaktimers where you are on dscan and theri scout seeing or just hearing you jump. For nice killmails most people will jump on the chance and if there is support and you get a good brawl but loose it most wormholers would be more than happy with that. And the line between ganking and being baited is a fine one. You can also engade them on their way home contrary to escalationfarming where the only positions are in site or under the FF. Is there any reason why homefarming is better than staticfarming from a contentaspect not maxiskperhour? Besides it being way safer and more stable since you can control the amount of sites you have. But also, capitalwarfare should be the main sellingpoint of c5/6 compared to lowends. If you nerf capescalations maybe up the maxmass on the holes so there is a reason and possibility to bring 1-3 of those into your static for anything but going ballsdeep. tldr: farming in static good for content esp if it is a groupthing. Also not a magic fix for all problems.

Hidden Fremen Lazerhawks 578	Posted - 2015.04.29 21:02:52 - [261] - Quote The topic is supposed to be about increasing consensual PvP.
Iyokus Patrouette Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 439	Posted - 2015.04.29 22:22:05 - [262] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: The topic is supposed to be about increasing consensual PvP. But this is the wormhole sub forum, did you really expect it to stay on topic? ---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1216	Posted - 2015.04.29 23:15:00 - [263] - Quote Iyokus Patrouette wrote: Hidden Fremen wrote: The topic is supposed to be about increasing consensual PvP. But this is the wormhole sub forum, did you really expect it to stay on topic? heh If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 964	Posted - 2015.04.30 00:16:13 - [264] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: The topic is supposed to be about increasing consensual PvP. No game mechanic change is going to pull that off. You can't force folks to want to fight. A good set of pvp videos would probably do a better job of it. You can draw the pvp minded folks out of LS/FW/null and into your world with a good PR campaign. PVP folks gravitate to where the action is. (giggle - just don't let them all in your corp) I'm not a total tinfoil gal, but a lot of the proposed 'pvp enhancing' ideas seem more like large farming fleet incentive programs. TL/DR Corbexx is a bad potato.
Ayeson Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 546	Posted - 2015.04.30 00:32:58 - [265] - Quote This thread. wormholes have a pretty obvious lifecycle. with a few...exits...kinda like every other corp/region lifecycle in EVE there are opportunities for PVP at all of these levels and above, if you just stop sticking with the meta and do something unexpected. 1.Corp starts small Sub 100 dudes Two options here...Stay Small and talk about how elite you are all the time on the forums, living out of whatever the ** kind of connection you have, barely finding anyone who wants to shoot lazers at you besides sleepers, or your members want MORE CONTENT and find a way to grow yourself into a medium sized corp. 2.Corp grows to medium size 101 - 249 dudes Again, you have a few options...You like where you are now, you can stay as a medium corp operating out of whatever region you feel like i.e. wspace. You can join a wormhole alliance and either go crowd a wormhole until it kills your corp, or live separately and constantly have your thought capacity questioned by every person who has an eve-o account. Or you decide that alliances are stupid and keep recruiting people until it begins to force change on your organization 3. Corp IS GRANDE 250+ dudes So, now you have anywhere between 250+ dudes (like 150+ real dudes) who are somewhat bloodthirsty, have some sort of cultural affinity with eachother, that or they hate eachother, and they love making me have ulcers and waking me/you up at all hours of the night with pings and HR issues. Anyways, if you get this big its a challenge for everyone, its a challenge for the members, for the recruiters, for the leadership (especially leadership) because dudes dont stick around if they dont have content. 4. Corp ascends to valhalla RIP these dudes I guess where I'm going with this is...everyone plays eve for a reason, stop focusing on why everyone else is an *** cause they have their own way to play the game, and figure out a way you can manipulate their playstyle to work for you and to provide you joy and content. I play administration online, with a smattering of spaceships. I'm proud as of HK and everytime someone is salty as about how large our fleets are and how we seem to be everywhere, I'm grinning like an idiot. And that's because I'm winning.** I GÖÑ the orthrus
Winthorp 3088	Posted - 2015.04.30 00:52:34 - [266] - Quote Ayeson wrote: I'm grinning like an idiot. And that's because I'm winning. I picture you "winning" Charlie Sheen style. I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Ayeson Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 548	Posted - 2015.04.30 01:16:29 - [267] - Quote Winthorp wrote: Ayeson wrote: I'm grinning like an idiot. And that's because I'm winning. I picture you "winning" Charlie Sheen style. yeah that basically nails it on the head I GÖÑ the orthrus
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2286	Posted - 2015.04.30 01:19:55 - [268] - Quote I, too, would like to weigh in on this content creation caca. The only good to come out of a move away from DPS / EHP walls and POSs with the upcoming Fozziesov mechanic is that it finally puts some cards on the table where you can provoke content without people having to spend hours of bad gameplay grinding structures. Right now this is mostly a problem in low-class wormholes where dread attacks are not an option. C5's, the RF cycle is merely an opportunity to get cap fights and will work. People can expect that you probably won't make the whole assault phase before content happens. This also happens faster, well, because dreads. In low-class space, you have to grind in subcaps. Against a hardened Dullstar, this takes a donkey's age. The feasibility of grinding several large towers is beyond the attention span of most experienced bittervet type players who want me to creae content that's not boring as fsck. Well, sorry dudes, there's got to be some boring stuff right now. Maybe if the balance is struck correctly between POS defences deterring casual attack (eg; if Fozzie removes gun AI, everyone's borked), POS capacity (so you don't need 20 POS's to bunk down 200 toons), and POS utility, then it could be the case that you can at least ping people's POSs quicker than now, force a timer upon someone for the weekend, troll a goodfight, and then go away. Of course, now I have to refer to Hidden Fremen's post about batphone cancer. I am currently somewhat relucant to engage in too mch SRS BSNS trolling of groups equal to Prolapse.'s capabilities because I know - from what happened last weekend - that what you attack is just the tip of a giant iceberg by the time you successfully crack the POS, create the timer, and the phones start ringing. Having 80-90 guys respond to one of your scouts is not a way to encourage anyone to get involved in content creation. Look. We all have friends. Even Winthorp has friends, despite his best efforts. Jester, I'm not so sure. But my point is, sometimes you need to let your friends suffer in their jocks for their idiocies - be it being mouthy dinkuses, fitting a POS badly, leaving a Nag floating in a C1, whatever. Sometimes, if the people attacking your friends seem evenly matched, on paper, you should let them grow up and learn to stand on their own two feet. let them have a fight, duke it out, maybe lose. I know it's hard to create content sufficient to let your own 30 man ishtar fleet get some kills, but just responding to batphones all the time is lazy and detrimental. If the big guys stopped blobbing into every 10 v 10 corp spat in w-space, we'd see more 10 v 10 corps going at it. Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014. Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Ilaister Absolutely Certain 181	Posted - 2015.04.30 01:22:23 - [269] - Quote Ayeson wrote: Stuff about how being big is better You say the lifecycle is obvious and people should look to challenge themselves in new ways. ie. Admin. You see no challenge in turning applicants to your corp away and staying small. Hypocrisy or ignorance?
Ayeson Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 548	Posted - 2015.04.30 01:26:18 - [270] - Quote Ilaister wrote: Hypocrisy or ignorance? Personal preference. Large scale brings challenges that small scale doesn't. I GÖÑ the orthrus

Kashadin Caldari Provisions Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.04.30 01:50:50 - [271] - Quote I think it says a lot about the mentality of people when most of the ideas to increase PVP are all about how to change the way that PVE works. Honestly I don't think that there is anything that can be done with the way that PVP works in high-class wormholes. At the end of the day the only way that people are going to increase PVP is to...go out and PVP. That is it. The only way to do it. They can't give the defender bonuses, as that would cause people to not want to PVP in peoples home holes, and cause even more bottling. What we need are people that are willing to expand the idea of PVP inside WH space while trying to stay away from the lure of being apart of the "big boy groups" and the safety of numbers. Create fleet setups that can hit and run the large standard fleets that the big guys run, hell possibly even try to pull some of the "leet pvpers" from those groups to spread the numbers around WH space. IDK >.> How ever high-class WH PVP is going to go, it is going to be up to the guys and gals who live there to make the changes in mentality to get the "gud fights" started. Now, if what you want is the ability to gank more people flying more expensive ships in high-class WH space then continue talking about how to get people out of home WH's, it will make my scouting more fun.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1216	Posted - 2015.04.30 03:22:25 - [272] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: Look. We all have friends. Even Winthorp has friends, despite his best efforts. Jester, I'm not so sure. But my point is, sometimes you need to let your friends suffer in their jocks for their idiocies - be it being mouthy dinkuses, fitting a POS badly, leaving a Nag floating in a C1, whatever. I was really good at batphoning :3 But when you only have ~10 uniques you have to be If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Lister Vindaloo 5 Tons of Flax Unreachable 45	Posted - 2015.04.30 05:28:22 - [273] - Quote I kind of like the idea of a POS module that acts as a clone vat, but with limits of course, it should only hold a small number of clones, so that a corp can scrimp on defenses to increase the number of clones they have to use after podding by anchoring more of them, they should also require fuel, something not already use by other modules/POS'. If the freezer goes offline, clones get destroyed. Something like that, it would be nice to have a clone in WH space occasionally, but it couldn't effect the power of the Pod express too much as that trip to high sec and the isolation from your hole it creates is part of what makes WH PvP different
ChromeStriker Out of Focus Odin's Call 890	Posted - 2015.04.30 08:10:23 - [274] - Quote Allow the creation of a "Bob shrine" in C5/C6 WH's. One per system. Its a deployable structure, that shows on the overview, and requires a constant supply of frozen corpses to operate (small cargo hold and fast consumption). Non aggressable, but will de-spawn if quota is not met... The longer it is operational the larger an effect field around the structure becomes (golden light, floating corpses, or wrecks, etc) Whilst activated, the "shrine of bob" will periodically dispense random favours to the inhabitants of the WH. This could be in the form of effect bonuses (10% tractor beam range, system wide Cyno inhibitor, 50% bonus to energy neutraliser drone structure hitpoints, etc), Gifts collected at the shrine (warp disruptors, gyros, ammo, other items blessed of Bob), and or some other such kind of thing maybe. No Worries
Araikas Rhal Hair-Trigger Prolapse. 11	Posted - 2015.04.30 08:39:46 - [275] - Quote ChromeStriker wrote: Allow the creation of a "Bob shrine" in C5/C6 WH's. One per system. Its a deployable structure, that shows on the overview, and requires a constant supply of frozen corpses to operate (small cargo hold and fast consumption). Non aggressable, but will de-spawn if quota is not met... The longer it is operational the larger an effect field around the structure becomes (golden light, floating corpses, or wrecks, etc) Whilst activated, the "shrine of bob" will periodically dispense random favours to the inhabitants of the WH. This could be in the form of effect bonuses (10% tractor beam range, system wide Cyno inhibitor, 50% bonus to energy neutraliser drone structure hitpoints, etc), Gifts collected at the shrine (warp disruptors, gyros, ammo, other items blessed of Bob), and or some other such kind of thing maybe. I especially like the cyno inhibitor part of this idea. Nothing i hate more then having my WH fleet hotdropped in the middle of running sites. Im sure anyone who has ever lived in a WH can relate, as Cyno's are far too overpowered in WH space right now. You sir, obviously belong here. Join channel "Beggars Bowl". Prolapse. is recruiting!
ChromeStriker Out of Focus Odin's Call 891	Posted - 2015.04.30 08:48:13 - [276] - Quote Araikas Rhal wrote: ChromeStriker wrote: Allow the creation of a "Bob shrine" in C5/C6 WH's. One per system. Its a deployable structure, that shows on the overview, and requires a constant supply of frozen corpses to operate (small cargo hold and fast consumption). Non aggressable, but will de-spawn if quota is not met... The longer it is operational the larger an effect field around the structure becomes (golden light, floating corpses, or wrecks, etc) Whilst activated, the "shrine of bob" will periodically dispense random favours to the inhabitants of the WH. This could be in the form of effect bonuses (10% tractor beam range, system wide Cyno inhibitor, 50% bonus to energy neutraliser drone structure hitpoints, etc), Gifts collected at the shrine (warp disruptors, gyros, ammo, other items blessed of Bob), and or some other such kind of thing maybe. I especially like the cyno inhibitor part of this idea. Nothing i hate more then having my WH fleet hotdropped in the middle of running sites. Im sure anyone who has ever lived in a WH can relate, as Cyno's are far too overpowered in WH space right now. You sir, obviously belong here. Join channel "Beggars Bowl". Prolapse. is recruiting! I was particually proud of that one... i also thought about 200% dmg buffs to titans, and 3000% bonus to supercarrier speed.... No Worries
Araikas Rhal Hair-Trigger Prolapse. 11	Posted - 2015.04.30 09:04:10 - [277] - Quote ChromeStriker wrote: Araikas Rhal wrote: ChromeStriker wrote: Allow the creation of a "Bob shrine" in C5/C6 WH's. One per system. Its a deployable structure, that shows on the overview, and requires a constant supply of frozen corpses to operate (small cargo hold and fast consumption). Non aggressable, but will de-spawn if quota is not met... The longer it is operational the larger an effect field around the structure becomes (golden light, floating corpses, or wrecks, etc) Whilst activated, the "shrine of bob" will periodically dispense random favours to the inhabitants of the WH. This could be in the form of effect bonuses (10% tractor beam range, system wide Cyno inhibitor, 50% bonus to energy neutraliser drone structure hitpoints, etc), Gifts collected at the shrine (warp disruptors, gyros, ammo, other items blessed of Bob), and or some other such kind of thing maybe. I especially like the cyno inhibitor part of this idea. Nothing i hate more then having my WH fleet hotdropped in the middle of running sites. Im sure anyone who has ever lived in a WH can relate, as Cyno's are far too overpowered in WH space right now. You sir, obviously belong here. Join channel "Beggars Bowl". Prolapse. is recruiting! I was particually proud of that one... i also thought about 200% dmg buffs to titans, and 3000% bonus to supercarrier speed.... Sir, you need to join Beggars Bowl. Prolapse has had the monuments for a while now. Corpse sacrifice and all. You are more then welcome to join us, or just convo us for a road to the Altar, bring any corpses you think need to be given over to Bob in your favorite ship and we shall see it so!
Jack Miton Isogen 5 4422	Posted - 2015.04.30 10:54:56 - [278] - Quote Ayeson wrote: Personal preference. Large scale brings challenges that small scale doesn't. I've been at every part of the wormhole food chain, I wouldn't go back to being small if you catch my drift. You're fully entitled to liking being in a big Corp but saying being a big Corp is harder than being a small Corp, especially in a thread about pvp, is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Even from HK. There is no Bob. Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Hidden Fremen Lazerhawks 584	Posted - 2015.04.30 12:31:01 - [279] - Quote Well, I'll give him that being in a big corp is tremendous work from a management point of view.
Bloemkoolsaus Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 184	Posted - 2015.04.30 12:36:00 - [280] - Quote So, about 2 months ago my group moved from c6/c6 to a c4/c4/c2. Since then, the amount of pvp we get has increased dramatically. The reason for this increase is (i think) that we simply encouter a lot more people in our chains then we did before. This is not only because the c4/c4/c2 has more connections, but the amount of systems that deserted in the `lower` wormholes is far less. It's hard to find an unoccupied wormhole in these classes. I don't believe nerfing home sites will solve the issues. I also dont think forcing people to move around will solve it either, because if you make it to hard risk averse people will just not come to wspace at all, and go somewhere else. I also think the influence of being able to put clones in wspace and not be podded to hs is exaggerated. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be able to switch clones in my Tower, but I don't think it will be the magic that solves all the problems. Maybe, the solution is to get wspace more populated, or, make it seem that way. It sounds simple, but it obviously isn't. I can think of a number of solutions, if they are good or not, I don't know. Maybe a combination is best, I'll let people smarter then me think about that. An easy way is removing a number of systems. Instead of this, maybe something smart can be done with connectivity. - Make some magic that connects `active` systems to other active systems more often, and less to inactive systems. (How to determine what system is active and wich one is not, let's not go there right now) - Do something special with the shattered systems. I like the fact that you can't roll the frigate wormholes. Maybe not being able to roll shattered wormholes is an interesting option to persue. - Get some wormholes (shattered for exemple) to have a lot more connections, opening up more area's. I'm also hoping that fozzy sov will make null exits more interesting. Right now, we ignore most nulls and only go on a roam in a couple of null area's if we happen to connect to them. If null roams are interesting everywhere, then being in wspace might be an extra advantage as you get access to all of nullsec basically. There are also a couple of mechanics that I think hurt wspace. - Spawn distance from the wormhole for larger ships. Has been talked about to much already though. - New signatures popping up automatically in your probe window. You used to need probes and scan regurarly for new sigs to pop up. Changing this back to the old ways, will change nothing for pve'ers that have probes out and take the effort to press scan every now and then. So, I think there are no downsides to changing this back. - The POS and hanger roles access stuff is definetly holding a lot of people back in trying out wspace.

Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2291	Posted - 2015.04.30 13:37:30 - [281] - Quote Bloemkoolsaus wrote: So, about 2 months ago my group moved from c6/c6 to a c4/c4/c2. Since then, the amount of pvp we get has increased dramatically. ...and stuff, blah blah Mate. You moved from C6/C6 and suddenly you don't get caught in the vicious circle of "bear to afford leet PVP doctrine boats / krab fleet killed / krab some more / krab a bit more to afford second chaacter training / krab fleet smashed again / no escalations, I'm not signing in f u guise / why no one create me more content" and you get into Mullet Hole living (business out the front, party round the back N766/X877 baybeeeee) and it's all about the PVP and scanning a billion wormholes. Then you sell your excess 90 capitals and have squillions of spare ISk wads. Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014. Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
fido goran Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 52	Posted - 2015.04.30 14:01:06 - [282] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: Bloemkoolsaus wrote: So, about 2 months ago my group moved from c6/c6 to a c4/c4/c2. Since then, the amount of pvp we get has increased dramatically. ...and stuff, blah blah Mate. You moved from C6/C6 and suddenly you don't get caught in the vicious circle of "bear to afford leet PVP doctrine boats / krab fleet killed / krab some more / krab a bit more to afford second chaacter training / krab fleet smashed again / no escalations, I'm not signing in f u guise / why no one create me more content" and you get into Mullet Hole living (business out the front, party round the back N766/X877 baybeeeee) and it's all about the PVP and scanning a billion wormholes. Then you sell your excess 90 capitals and have squillions of spare ISk wads. I found this enjoyable to read. I wish I was joking.
Ab'del Abu Atlantis Ascendant 274	Posted - 2015.04.30 14:10:28 - [283] - Quote Bloemkoolsaus wrote: I also think the influence of being able to put clones in wspace and not be podded to hs is exaggerated. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be able to switch clones in my Tower, but I don't think it will be the magic that solves all the problems. This wouldn't magically fix all the problems, true, but it's one of the small things that might make people pvp more freely in some situations. For example, if I have only 15 minutes time left before I have to log for the day, I will think twice before engaging a situation that carries a high probability of me getting podded out of wh-space. Bloemkoolsaus wrote: An easy way is removing a number of systems. Instead of this, maybe something smart can be done with connectivity. - Make some magic that connects `active` systems to other active systems more often, and less to inactive systems. (How to determine what system is active and wich one is not, let's not go there right now) - Do something special with the shattered systems. I like the fact that you can't roll the frigate wormholes. Maybe not being able to roll shattered wormholes is an interesting option to persue. - Get some wormholes (shattered for exemple) to have a lot more connections, opening up more area's. Reducing C6 to 50 systems and C5 to 200 or so would be interesting indeed. Doubt it will ever happen though ;( Bloemkoolsaus wrote: There are also a couple of mechanics that I think hurt wspace. - Spawn distance from the wormhole for larger ships. Has been talked about to much already though. - New signatures popping up automatically in your probe window. You used to need probes and scan regurarly for new sigs to pop up. Changing this back to the old ways, will change nothing for pve'ers that have probes out and take the effort to press scan every now and then. So, I think there are no downsides to changing this back. I don't feel like reverting those changes would do much for pvp. Making collapsing safer while at the same time making PvE more dangerous / inconvenient (by forcing people to press the scan button every 10 seconds or so) would be somewhat contradictory. I actually think that spawn distances for cruisers and below could be even further (10km+). I know people think that would make wormholes more like gates and remove the uniqueness from them, however, ships spawning basically right on top of wormholes is one of the reasons why there is such a heavy armor brawling meta.
Ayeson Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 551	Posted - 2015.04.30 14:18:28 - [284] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Ayeson wrote: Personal preference. Large scale brings challenges that small scale doesn't. I've been at every part of the wormhole food chain, I wouldn't go back to being small if you catch my drift. You're fully entitled to liking being in a big Corp but saying being a big Corp is harder than being a small Corp, especially in a thread about pvp, is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Even from HK. As I am entitled to my opinion you are entitled to yours. However, I wouldn't expect you to understand anyone else's viewpoint, considering you just ignored all the content from my posts and assumed I was saying "big corps are hard to be in" Did I say it was "hard" to be in a big corp? No. I said the administrative challenges that it provides me are more entertaining and interesting than ones I dealt with when HK was young. I've constantly stated that the lack of leadership is what ruins wormhole corps, and having toxic members floating around from corp to corp seems to be another one of those things. I GÖÑ the orthrus
Ghenghis Kralj Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering 71	Posted - 2015.04.30 17:45:24 - [285] - Quote I can see a pos mod for pods that could work. You could set priority level when you get podded or maybe allow you to swap implants. Although..not sure how hard no 2 is to code. Allowing podded pilots to come back into their home system would be a game changer for eviction techniques imo. Not sure what the end result would be though. Could the blue donut just bring even more to counteract? Yes, I believe so. So not sure that it's enough, but I have the other changes proposed. As far as cap escalations go, they are disconnected from pvp in my view. Those who are doing hard core cap escalations are never going to agree to "consensual" pvp anyways. So changed spawn points, etc. isn't going to make pvp better. It'll just give you more empty holes. I want the mass based jump range situation to go away. I can't see anything good that has come out of it. From my understanding and view of the situation, I don't believe that significant number of players are rage rolling during the week. Yes, mass based jumping has increased the risk of rolling, but it has significantly decreased overall risk in wormhole space due to lower rage rolling.
Ab'del Abu Atlantis Ascendant 276	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:05:50 - [286] - Quote Ghenghis Kralj wrote: I want the mass based jump range situation to go away. I can't see anything good that has come out of it. From my understanding and view of the situation, I don't believe that significant number of players are rage rolling during the week. Yes, mass based jumping has increased the risk of rolling, but it has significantly decreased overall risk in wormhole space due to lower rage rolling. The people that have been rage rolling before still seem to be rage rolling (during workdays, too). If anything, it adds a maximum of one minute per roll, usually half that amount of time. Considering it takes ~3-4 minutes to do the following - waiting for a new signature to pop up - scanning it - warping there - jumping and scouting that one minute doesn't weigh in all that much.
Araikas Rhal Hair-Trigger Prolapse. 12	Posted - 2015.04.30 19:50:42 - [287] - Quote Ab'del Abu wrote: Ghenghis Kralj wrote: I want the mass based jump range situation to go away. I can't see anything good that has come out of it. From my understanding and view of the situation, I don't believe that significant number of players are rage rolling during the week. Yes, mass based jumping has increased the risk of rolling, but it has significantly decreased overall risk in wormhole space due to lower rage rolling. The people that have been rage rolling before still seem to be rage rolling (during workdays, too). If anything, it adds a maximum of one minute per roll, usually half that amount of time. Considering it takes ~3-4 minutes to do the following - waiting for a new signature to pop up - scanning it - warping there - jumping and scouting that one minute doesn't weigh in all that much. Two days ago i used two standard tanked, 1600 plate, ect battleships MWD, and MJD fit to roll a hole in front of minimal 7 tengus, a broadsword, plus w/e on d scan was theirs and not on grid or cloaked. Did this 4-5 times, don't remember, but anyway i should be dead yea? Well they scram after half a second decloak, so around 8K off and webbed, i eat one bump that did not line up right . Jump jump, MJD. Yay i dont have to build another geddon. We wait 15 min or so (Theirs 3 of us online.) and a scout, Viggo, takes a look inside, d-scan kinda clear, but yea, we see them and i decide to do it again except with 2x BSs RR fit. A geddon and a domi. Jump one and hold the other to see if they jump back, they do not. I make it back AGAIN, with a 2x plated BS through 2 bumps and webs again. Hot, hot. Lets go wait out WH aids timer and afk for a smoke. Ok, so after a 5 min discusion one how much mass 7x Tengu's with at least half going prop on has thrown our WH off..... i go again; hey look they reshipped into vigilant, few proteus, and a rapier. Hm, well jumped both, lets see what happens. I wont fight in their WH where we are outnumbered and out shipped, they dont like the fact that we have an Altar to Bob and they dont. But somehow i get back, again with both BS, and they do not follow. TL;DR: Mass based spawn range will not be the lynch pin in increasing PvP and cultivating players in high class wormholes. If you really do want to have fun in WH space, let HardCoX&Co. take over everything, "rent" it all out for 2 months while farming retards and bitches, then one day reset them all and tell them to **** off. The players wont create the sort of thunderdome we all say we want on our own, because most are more worried about their assets; content created, now for the love of Bob can we raid this drug POS next door?
Hidden Fremen Lazerhawks 586	Posted - 2015.04.30 21:00:51 - [288] - Quote About the mass based jump ranges, though... I really think it killed one of the few tactics smaller corps could employ going up against bigger corps. It was frustrating when it happened to us, but looking back, combat rolling/massing was a very smart adaptation to otherwise winless situations.
corbexx GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1325	Posted - 2015.04.30 21:08:38 - [289] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: About the mass based jump ranges, though... I really think it killed one of the few tactics smaller corps could employ going up against bigger corps. It was frustrating when it happened to us, but looking back, combat rolling/massing was a very smart adaptation to otherwise winless situations. this really needs more +1's even if it is hidden (doesnt really cos i've already passed it on cos its a really good point) Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
Jack Hayson Atztech Inc. Ixtab. 152	Posted - 2015.04.30 21:17:13 - [290] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: About the mass based jump ranges, though... I really think it killed one of the few tactics smaller corps could employ going up against bigger corps. It was frustrating when it happened to us, but looking back, combat rolling/massing was a very smart adaptation to otherwise winless situations. Yes, the spawn range change was really bad, but I doubt CCP will remove it. There was a massive threadnaught about it with people telling CCP exactly this and they went ahead and implemented it anyway - why would they listen now?

Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 56	Posted - 2015.04.30 22:18:33 - [291] - Quote To Riot with fuzzy and all his changes! *~lvl 60 paladin~*
LtauSTinpoWErs Lazerhawks 47	Posted - 2015.04.30 23:19:01 - [292] - Quote I would like to encourage everyone to read what I have written below. I know it is long, as it has taken a bit of time to create but I believe a lot of what I say has merit. Unfortunately, there is not one singular fix for encouraging PVP in wormhole space or making it more active. I believe there are a number of things that need to be adjusted and/or created to improve upon the current status of W-Space. For those that are unable to have patience, well I am not sure W-Space or even EVE Online for that matter is right for you, but I will include a TL:DR at the bottom as well. Seriously, if you only read the TL:DR and not the majority of my post, then I hope your rookie ships no longer come with Tritanium. WARNING Wall of Text Incoming Recently, one of the best things happened to this game, and that was the removal of clone grades. Essentially, clone grade costs were a PVP tax and deterred older players from flying cheap ships such as frigates and cruiser since their clone grade alone (not including implants or hardwirings) was worth much more than the ship and fittings. Now, having different clones with different implants and hardwirings plugged in isnGÇÖt the same as the aforementioned PVP tax but it does deter certain EVE players from risking those implants and hardwirings in PVP. If those players had the ability to switch out of their clones quicker, they may be more inclined to pew-pew. I believe that there should be a new structure implemented within the EVE Online universe that would allow an individual to swap out his or her clone. This structure would be allowed to anchor at any POS within Known Space (High Sec, Low Sec, and Null Sec) or within Wormhole Space. Similar to all other anchorable structures, this too could be destroyed, resulting in the loss and kill mail of any and all clones stored within it. I am not sure if there should be a timer on this structure for switching clones but if there is, I feel that the timer should be very small; perhaps an hour or so. Another option that could be developed, for the clone swapping timer, is clone fatigue. This could be similar to the jump fatigue that is already developed. This would mean that you could swap clones pretty quickly at first, but the more often that you do it in a short time period, the longer your fatigue would become. You could also use the Infomorph Synchronizing skill level to affect what amount of fatigue each individual receives from swapping his or her clone out. I also donGÇÖt know how many clones should be allowed per individual in this structure or if the structure instead should only have a limit on total clone capacity. Examples below: Example of clone limit per person: First we have five (5) people sharing a POS so each individual is able to fit one (1) clone at the structure for a total of five (5) clones. Second example is where one (1) person has his/her own POS but is only able to fit (1) clone at the structure for a total of (1) clone. Example of total clone capacity: First we have five (5) people sharing a POS so each individual is able to fit one (1) clone at the structure for a total of five (5) clones [SAME AS FIRST EXAMPLE]. Second example is where we have one (1) person with his/her own POS and chooses to store five (5) clones at it for a total of five (5) clones. Second thing that I would like to see happen to EVE may already be in the works (one can hope anyways). All over New Eden and throughout W-Space (I am not sure if W-Space is included in New Eden or if it is acknowledge separatelyGÇªplease someone inform me) are abandoned POSs and POS modules. I would love to see Sleepers/Drifters clear out these abandoned structures. Notifications can still be sent out to warn players/corporations that their structures are under attack so if they truly wish to online and protect their tower, they would have the option to do so. If these GÇ£deadsticksGÇ¥ were cleared out, it may give CCP a better idea of what systems are empty, and at the very least, I would imagine that it would help reduce some small amount of server resources. I do not think we should create new classes of wormholes yet. However, if CCP were to eventually go that route, I would hope that they would alter empty wormholes that are already within the game and convert them to said new wormhole class level. There are pros and cons to everything of course and I think with that being said, by having less empty wormholes, there would be a greater chance of player interaction. Although, it would also be easier to get reinforcements or roll for specific systemsGÇªunless your static was shatteredGÇªsee below. I really like the idea of shattered wormholes but I think they need tweaking as well. All that I have used them for personally is scanning out other connections. They have a ton of cosmic signatures and anomalies in them but besides the shattered Wolf-Rayet systems, I donGÇÖt think they are being used to their potential. What I would like to see, just like the frigate only wormholes, is a very high stable mass wormhole that regenerates over time. This would mean that collapsing these wormholes would be nearly impossible, and would virtually always last to the end of their 16 hour lifespan. The main difference is that it wouldnGÇÖt be restricted to frigates only. This would force people to scan out their chain and put home sites on hold if their static was a shattered wormhole. Interestingly enough, this would also encourage them to run sites within their shattered static because pilots wouldnGÇÖt be fearful of the chain closing with capitals jumping through.
LtauSTinpoWErs Lazerhawks 47	Posted - 2015.04.30 23:19:57 - [293] - Quote I figured that I would share my opinion on some other mentioned ideas. I am interested in the dual static proposal and think that could be a way to generate more traffic through chains. It seems to be working well for individuals living in C4 Space, or say the say in this thread. I havenGÇÖt lived there so I donGÇÖt know much about it but I have scanned my fair share of C4s that have popped up in our chain. If it would actually generate more traffic, then I am all for it. I also believe that the mass spawn distance should be reverted back to the standardized distance for all spaceships, because it was a good way for smaller entities to fight outnumbered, and then bail out if needed. Lastly, some terrible ideas have been mentioned and they should NOT be introduced into EVE Online. Pilots should NOT be allowed to jump clone in/out of a wormhole (exclusion is Thera). That just doesnGÇÖt make much sense. Wormholes should NOT get the stargate treatment where they appear on the overview. That is one of the stupidest things that I have heard of. It is super easy to scan now since they changed the scanning process. Nor should people be allowed to set up a structure to stabilize a specific wormhole connection. This is Eve, learn to scan, pay, or beg for a bookmark. I do NOT think that you should nerf home site escalations. Knowing that people use capitals in PVE is a content driver for PVP. IT doesnGÇÖt matter if it is low-sec, null-sec or w-space. The difference is group A will rage rolls its chain to find bear fleets, while group B uses Dotlan and fast tackle to try and catch ratting capitals. People will try and kill ratters and it is up to the ratterGÇÖs friends or corporation mates to back them up if something goes down. [Summary] I know it has been a long read but I hope you donGÇÖt feel like it was worthless. I think there are a number of things that can improve life and PVP in W-Space. Having the ability to switch clones inside a POS would be a small step in that direction. I think if Sleepers and Drifters went around reprocessing deadsticks then perhaps we would have a better idea of why certain W-Space systems are so vacant, and alter them to make them more appealing. I think shattered wormholes need to be altered to have connections nearly impossible to collapse. I think dual statics could also be a good thing although I canGÇÖt say for certain. The current ship mass spawn location has done nothing beneficial to gameplay and should be reverted. PVE will always create content for PVP even if it is just ganks. The party being ganked, may have friends and may be able to fight off the gankers...turning the original PVE activity into PVP. TL:DR Clone grades are gone Introduce clone swapping structure Have sleepers/drifters kill deadsticks Take a look at empty WH systems Adjusted shattered wormholes connections to be very hard to collapse Dual static idea/revert ship mass spawn PVE creates PVP content Proposed bad ideas Summary TL:DR
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 980	Posted - 2015.05.01 00:41:02 - [294] - Quote LtauSTinpoWErs wrote: TL:DR Clone grades are gone Introduce clone swapping structure Have sleepers/drifters kill deadsticks Take a look at empty WH systems Adjusted shattered wormholes connections to be very hard to collapse Dual static idea/revert ship mass spawn PVE creates PVP content Proposed bad ideas Summary TL:DR Awesome to the first 3, neutral to the rest.
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2295	Posted - 2015.05.01 00:55:38 - [295] - Quote corbexx wrote: Hidden Fremen wrote: About the mass based jump ranges, though... I really think it killed one of the few tactics smaller corps could employ going up against bigger corps. It was frustrating when it happened to us, but looking back, combat rolling/massing was a very smart adaptation to otherwise winless situations. this really needs more +1's even if it is hidden (doesnt really cos i've already passed it on cos its a really good point) It's not hidden, duh. We can all see it. Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014. Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
BayneNothos United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 138	Posted - 2015.05.01 01:17:48 - [296] - Quote corbexx wrote: Hidden Fremen wrote: About the mass based jump ranges, though... I really think it killed one of the few tactics smaller corps could employ going up against bigger corps. It was frustrating when it happened to us, but looking back, combat rolling/massing was a very smart adaptation to otherwise winless situations. this really needs more +1's even if it is hidden (doesnt really cos i've already passed it on cos its a really good point) And as I've said to you and others, there needs to be a minimum distance from the WH. https://namamai.wordpress.com/2014/06/25/the-server-tick-or-wtf-why-didnt-my-point-turn-on/ You can set the max to whatever, I don't care, but no ship should be within jumprange of a WH after it jumps. Not everyone lives in Europe. Personally I'd like to see it at 6.5km. That's far enough that you can't jump back straight away. Others can see what your intentions are, either crash back or push off and cloak clearly before they actually happen and react accordingly. Its also still close enough that you can power back in bigger ships if need be, while still retaining the risk that an organised gang can leave you stranded short.
Luft Reich Lazerhawks 72	Posted - 2015.05.01 01:27:51 - [297] - Quote Revert mass distance thing, coming from somebody who has used the tactic against Lazerhawks before I joined (no hate please) it really gives smaller groups a fighting chance to use the unique mass of wormholes to their advantage. Also I totally suggested it on internal forums, do I get good bob karma when CSM gets it changed? Much love, Luft <333 ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
Accountant O'Death Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2015.05.01 03:50:00 - [298] - Quote Ayeson wrote: This thread. wormholes have a pretty obvious lifecycle. with a few...exits...kinda like every other corp/region lifecycle in EVE there are opportunities for PVP at all of these levels and above, if you just stop sticking with the meta and do something unexpected. 1.Corp starts small Sub 100 dudes Two options here...Stay Small and talk about how elite you are all the time on the forums, living out of whatever the ** kind of connection you have, barely finding anyone who wants to shoot lazers at you besides sleepers, or your members want MORE CONTENT and find a way to grow yourself into a medium sized corp. 2.Corp grows to medium size 101 - 249 dudes Again, you have a few options...You like where you are now, you can stay as a medium corp operating out of whatever region you feel like i.e. wspace. You can join a wormhole alliance and either go crowd a wormhole until it kills your corp, or live separately and constantly have your thought capacity questioned by every person who has an eve-o account. Or you decide that alliances are stupid and keep recruiting people until it begins to force change on your organization 3. Corp IS GRANDE 250+ dudes So, now you have anywhere between 250+ dudes (like 150+ real dudes) who are somewhat bloodthirsty, have some sort of cultural affinity with eachother, that or they hate eachother, and they love making me have ulcers and waking me/you up at all hours of the night with pings and HR issues. Anyways, if you get this big its a challenge for everyone, its a challenge for the members, for the recruiters, for the leadership (especially leadership) because dudes dont stick around if they dont have content. 4. Corp ascends to valhalla RIP these dudes I guess where I'm going with this is...everyone plays eve for a reason, stop focusing on why everyone else is an *** cause they have their own way to play the game, and figure out a way you can manipulate their playstyle to work for you and to provide you joy and content. I play administration online, with a smattering of spaceships. I'm proud as of HK and everytime someone is salty as about how large our fleets are and how we seem to be everywhere, I'm grinning like an idiot. And that's because I'm winning.** Only someone from Hardknocks would consider 249 dudes a medium corp...
GizzyBoy Aperture Harmonics K162 106	Posted - 2015.05.01 04:03:21 - [299] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: About the mass based jump ranges, though... I really think it killed one of the few tactics smaller corps could employ going up against bigger corps. It was frustrating when it happened to us, but looking back, combat rolling/massing was a very smart adaptation to otherwise winless situations. Pretty sure even if they could mass it, if they connect to you in there chain, they will just log off and come back in 24 hours. that's what used to happen to us even before the jump changes where made.
Luft Reich Lazerhawks 73	Posted - 2015.05.01 05:10:26 - [300] - Quote GizzyBoy wrote: Hidden Fremen wrote: About the mass based jump ranges, though... I really think it killed one of the few tactics smaller corps could employ going up against bigger corps. It was frustrating when it happened to us, but looking back, combat rolling/massing was a very smart adaptation to otherwise winless situations. Pretty sure even if they could mass it, if they connect to you in there chain, they will just log off and come back in 24 hours. that's what used to happen to us even before the jump changes where made. Coming from a smaller gang corp when we had 10-15 people online (before I joined Hawks) and were trying to fight the bigger groups being able to mass the hole to control the fight was a very important resources to use against the enemy. By saying people will just log off vs the blob is a cultural thing in their corp and nothing will fix that, no mechanics will. So instead of stereotyping all small gang groups of not fighting, give them more tools to fight the blob. ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post

Ilaister Absolutely Certain 183	Posted - 2015.05.01 08:44:44 - [301] - Quote Luft Reich wrote: Coming from a smaller gang corp when we had 10-15 people online (before I joined Hawks) and were trying to fight the bigger groups being able to mass the hole to control the fight was a very important resources to use against the enemy. By saying people will just log off vs the blob is a cultural thing in their corp and nothing will fix that, no mechanics will. So instead of stereotyping all small gang groups of not fighting, give them more tools to fight the blob. I'd hope the pressure we can put on by developing (recapturing?) a Wspace wide culture could improve that. The truly risk averse might never change but it should be common knowledge that wspace is for small gang PvP and gudfites. Not for bearing and POSing up when hostiles come knocking. Even the big corps give you a chance to get kills from them before they become aware of you. You just only get one bite at the cherry before they voltron more guardians than you have pilots and their scouts find your home hole. We do it all the time. Mass changes would give a tool back to small groups though. It was widely discussed at the time.
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed 57	Posted - 2015.05.01 09:35:44 - [302] - Quote Luft Reich wrote: Coming from a smaller gang corp when we had 10-15 people online (before I joined Hawks) and were trying to fight the bigger groups being able to mass the hole to control the fight was a very important resources to use against the enemy. By saying people will just log off vs the blob is a cultural thing in their corp and nothing will fix that, no mechanics will. So instead of stereotyping all small gang groups of not fighting, give them more tools to fight the blob. I've seen people achieve the same result of massing/collapsing holes with higs rigged nullified t3's. Ironically TDSIN and EXIT used that to roll the connection to a 25 toon corp. *~lvl 60 paladin~*
Peter Moonlight Lazerhawks 149	Posted - 2015.05.01 10:43:05 - [303] - Quote Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: Luft Reich wrote: Coming from a smaller gang corp when we had 10-15 people online (before I joined Hawks) and were trying to fight the bigger groups being able to mass the hole to control the fight was a very important resources to use against the enemy. By saying people will just log off vs the blob is a cultural thing in their corp and nothing will fix that, no mechanics will. So instead of stereotyping all small gang groups of not fighting, give them more tools to fight the blob. I've seen people achieve the same result of massing/collapsing holes with higs rigged nullified t3's. Ironically TDSIN and EXIT used that to roll the connection to a 25 toon corp. 6+ vindis, with few bhaalgorns, guardians, nidhoggurs and naglfars on standby along with dscan bot is one of scariest fleet comps (tactics) you can deploy in your home system casually, and if you know how to use it..
Hidden Fremen Lazerhawks 592	Posted - 2015.05.01 13:16:26 - [304] - Quote Peter Moonlight wrote: 6+ vindis, with few bhaalgorns, guardians, nidhoggurs and naglfars on standby along with dscan bot is one of scariest fleet comps (tactics) you can deploy in your home system casually, and if you know how to use it.. Sounds like Guillotine Therapy.
Aapir Disbanding As We Speak Already Disbanded 9	Posted - 2015.05.01 14:09:20 - [305] - Quote I was a director of a large C4 corp. We started with 8 dudes and when I left we had 30 online in primetime who liked to pvp. They still have 160 or so characters so they would make them a decent addition to high class w-space. Despite that everyone in leadership agreed we would never go to a C5/C6. The first and biggest reason was the increased risk for no additional rewards. Evicting someone from a high class wormhole is much easier because dreads ** all over pos. Many of our members had experienced evictions before. Some were in hardcore farm groups, some were in farm groups that fought back when their towers got reinforced, some were in groups that went out looking for fights before the hammer was brought down. If they fought back the attacker would simply batphone more people. We weren't delusional enough to believe that simply pvping would protect us from eviction so living in a C5 would be a bigger risk. On the reward side there is capital escalations and being able to use caps offensively. We had no interest in cap escalations. It brings out the worst farmers and it would mean closing the hole so 6 dudes can make megabucks while the rest of the corp stands there like mall cops. Simply being able to use caps in pvp was not a big enough draw when they could also be used against us by bigger groups. The second major obstacle was the cost of moving. Moving 15 large pos would have taken somewhere around 150 man hours, about 40 hours per director of wrestling with pos code. That is on top of the hassle of moving people's assets. ** that. It's not worth my time. Third reason was the horribly static meta of armor t3s all day every day and the e-bushido that comes along with it. The best fights we got were ganks gone wrong. The victim, either us or them, escalated until it was a big fight with people dying and reshipping. Successful ganks were cool too. The semi organized fights with both sides sitting in t3s with 30% logi support on opposite sides of a wormhole were the least amount of fun. Some were cool but mostly it involved staring at each other for half an hour because neither side wanted risk a 20b fleet if they weren't sure of at least a few killmails. In addition we didn't want politics and "NO PODDING" e-bushido special rules. These fleets are the norm in C5/C6 space. We didn't want to be forced to do them or get a reputation of not giving fights or being dishonorable. What would potentially have made our corp go to a C5? - Make it safer for active medium and small groups. Currently it's easier to harass and evict a small corp of people's mains than it is to evict a farming alt corp belonging to a big group. I would hate to advertise Fozziesov but there should be a mechanism that helps smaller groups that leave the pos shields on a regular basis. People need to be able to defend against the blob, otherwise they simply join it. -Fix pos code and wormhole living space. Fortunately this is on the horizon. If there is less effort required in moving you might see more upward mobility and fresh corps in C5/C6 space. -Stimulate people to leave their home hole for pve. The best fights I had were the result of incomplete intel coming from a scout a few holes down the chain. We would spot hostiles and not have eyes in their home hole. If we wanted to kill them we had to do it as soon as possible, but at the risk of biting off more than we could chew. This leads to more chaotic situations and killmails for both sides.
Stormbringer999s Demonic. Dominatus Atrum Mortis 2	Posted - 2015.05.01 15:00:54 - [306] - Quote What is risk aversion and how do we empower pilots to move beyond the safety of their POS Shields? Some have said that GÇ£they need to grow a setGÇ¥ or GÇ£just play the game and have funGÇ¥ and although I like these trains of thought itGÇÖs just not that simple. Throw more isk at them I here others say. Maybe that would work, maybe if you feed the bears enough theyGÇÖll come out to play, feed them enough isk so they can replace their ships same day if need be. Maybe add market hubs to Shattered Wormholes so ship replacement isnGÇÖt so tedious. Would that be enough to entice them to leave their POS shields? I can hear others saying though that more isk and increased access to market hubs would in fact dilute the whole experience of extracting tears, leaving the aggressors feeling rather under whelmed, knowing that the bears could replace anything theyGÇÖd lost almost immediately. Question though, isnGÇÖt that the case with any successful Alliances/Corporation and their SRPGÇÖs? What are they really risking other than their own reputation? Risk Aversion. HereGÇÖs another question, would any of you commit every ship you own, your entire fleet, in a winner takes all (kudos only) battle, if your respective wallets were empty, as in bone dry nothing but dust collecting empty? Would you risk absolutely everything, knowing if you failed it would mean going back to the drawing board and starting all over again, from scratch, with nothing, to replace what youGÇÖve lost, grinding away for months to regain some sort of resemblance of your former past??? Would any single player or entity within Eve consider doing such a thing??? Risk Aversion. Ganks are part of the game, like them or loath them, theyGÇÖre here to stay, deal with it. Spare a thought though for the guy whoGÇÖll need a week, a month or several to replace the ships heGÇÖs lost. It all comes back to Risk Aversion. Remember the old mantra GÇ£donGÇÖt fly what you canGÇÖt afford to loseGÇ¥, well consider that the next time a pilot choses to disengage, maybe theyGÇÖre just isk poor and canGÇÖt afford to cop a whelping atm, which might explain their current predisposition in remaining POSGÇÖd up, which brings me full circle to my early statement of throwing more isk at them, or at the very least not inhibiting their ability to earn isk. I donGÇÖt think itGÇÖs that simple as that but maybe itGÇÖs part of the solution, just maybe. Risk Aversion. I can appreciate what the larger Alliances/Corps accomplish month in month out, but we canGÇÖt all be the big hitters can we? There will always need to be some balance within the game, as in most cases in life. Some days youGÇÖll be the big fish preying on the small, other days youGÇÖll be the prey. Sucks to be you sometimes. This is after all wormhole space, itGÇÖs meant to be scary, dangerous and unknown. As for me, I Jew it up often because I die a lot, in the most horrendous manner sometimes, consensual or not, but I know my place in this universe and IGÇÖm always happy to field whatever I can whenever I can to appease the appetite of my adversaries. Whatever the outcome beyond this point, it all boils down to human nature. ItGÇÖs a balancing act that is never static but more so a constant evolution of concepts and ideas. Praise Bob
Stormbringer999s Demonic. Dominatus Atrum Mortis 2	Posted - 2015.05.01 15:07:04 - [307] - Quote Double Post
Peter Moonlight Lazerhawks 150	Posted - 2015.05.01 23:46:19 - [308] - Quote Hidden Fremen wrote: Peter Moonlight wrote: 6+ vindis, with few bhaalgorns, guardians, nidhoggurs and naglfars on standby along with dscan bot is one of scariest fleet comps (tactics) you can deploy in your home system casually, and if you know how to use it.. Sounds like Guillotine Therapy. Yeah, them and zero fun allowed.
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1305	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:44:47 - [309] - Quote 150k ehp to 300k each vindicator. 2000 + dps.... A lot of Phoenxes and painters will be needed to break that. Yaay!!!!
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 161	Posted - 2015.05.03 08:50:19 - [310] - Quote ChromeStriker wrote: Allow the creation of a "Bob shrine" in C5/C6 WH's. One per system. Its a deployable structure, that shows on the overview, and requires a constant supply of frozen corpses to operate (small cargo hold and fast consumption). Non aggressable, but will de-spawn if quota is not met... The longer it is operational the larger an effect field around the structure becomes (golden light, floating corpses, or wrecks, etc) Whilst activated, the "shrine of bob" will periodically dispense random favours to the inhabitants of the WH. This could be in the form of effect bonuses (10% tractor beam range, system wide Cyno inhibitor, 50% bonus to energy neutraliser drone structure hitpoints, etc), Gifts collected at the shrine (warp disruptors, gyros, ammo, other items blessed of Bob), and or some other such kind of thing maybe. Did you add that idea to the [New structures] Administration Hubs and Advertisement Centers Discussion? It might not save w-space and your so called bonuses are clearly a troll but it might add flavor to wormholes. Might even make wh-roleplaying corps come into existance. And we need more ways to get people into w-space! No local in null sec would fix everything!



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